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Democratic Socialists pick up three big victories in this week's New York City primaries.

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Could that momentum carry all the way to Wisconsin?

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And the field of Democrats running for governor here finally shrinks.

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What is the signal about the race?

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This is Inside Wisconsin Politics.

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I'm Sean Johnson, here with Anya Van Wechtendank, and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire.

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Hey, gang.

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Hey, Sean.

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So our show this week needs a little bit of setup.

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We are, of course, focused on primaries in Wisconsin, but we are looking for clues this

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week from primaries that happened in New York.

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So Anya, what did happen there?

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Yeah, there were a number of congressional primaries, including three candidates who

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received the backing of Mayor Zohran Mamdani, himself a socialist.

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Two of those candidates also received endorsements from the Democratic Socialists of America,

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which is a group that he's also affiliated with, and all three of those candidates won.

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In one case, kicking out an incumbent, some of them were political outsiders, so this

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was really in some ways an upset and a little bit of a validation for Mamdani, this kind

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of further left mayor, for the power that he shows in this significant blue area.

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And so a lot of people, as you say, are kind of looking at that as tea leaves for what

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that says about the Democratic primary right now and what voters want in their blue candidates.

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And I think that you would see states, or people in any state, where Democrats have a

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plausible shot at winning, asking these same questions.

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So why are we asking it here, though, or what's kind of arthred, where it feels like, hey,

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this could really be significant this year.

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Right. Obviously, there are many differences between New York City and the state of Wisconsin,

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but one of the things that there is kind of in commonality here is that we have this crowded

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Democratic race for governor, as we've mentioned.

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And one candidate from there, Francesca Hong, is sort of in that same vein as Mamdani and

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these kind of, she identifies as a socialist, as a Democratic socialist, she's part of that

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caucus in the legislature.

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And so when we kind of look at who is going to stand out among this field of now six Democratic

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candidates, we wonder kind of to what extent these victories for these further left candidates

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means that Fran Hong will stand out among Democrats.

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And then what does that mean in a more general election, where, again, a Wisconsin general

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election is very different than a New York City primary election?

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So we're going to get back to the primary for governor here in just a minute, but Rich,

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this was a congressional primary in New York, or congressional primaries, rather.

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I wonder how we're seeing this play out, if at all, in Democratic primaries here in

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Wisconsin for Congress, you are covering one in the third congressional district in Western

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Wisconsin.

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You just covered a forum there where there is a Democratic primary.

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Do you see any parallels there, or is it a different ball game?

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It feels like a different ball game.

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I mean, for one, there aren't any DSA candidates in the race for the third congressional district,

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but there are some similarities in one way.

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So we've got two candidates, and one seems to be trying to portray yourself as the more

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progressive of the two.

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And one is trying to, or is acting like she's the more moderate candidate.

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So these two people are Emily Berge, she's the former city council president of Eau Claire,

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has been on the city council for a long time.

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So these, the one that during the forum that was last week in Plattville, was offering

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up some more of what you would expect progressive candidates to say.

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For example, Berge called for Medicare for All, which is universal health care, essentially.

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And she said that she would, she bowed to impeach President Donald Trump if she were elected

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or support the impeachment.

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The other candidate is Rebecca Cook, who has, this is her third run essentially for

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the third congressional district.

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And she was more reserved in answering those questions.

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For example, on Medicare for All, she said, she said she'd love to sign up for all of

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these aspirational goals, but she said that it's more likely that if Democrats win the

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House majority back, they would go more towards expanding tax credits for the Affordable

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Care Act that were passed by Democrats during the earlier years of the COVID pandemic.

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And she said, so that would be the immediate first step.

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And on impeachment, she said, well, the devil is in the details of what that resolution

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would look like.

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So those were two of the differences that I noticed right away.

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And then another difference that predates the debate by many months, the House Democrats'

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national campaign arm essentially endorsed Rebecca Cook like months ago.

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And they've offered her support, they've offered her staff, training, et cetera.

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And Berge has since said and said during the forum that, you know, it shouldn't be national

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Democrats picking who represents the people of the Third District.

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It should be voters themselves.

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So that's one way that it stood out from what happened in New York, but there's still

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kind of two candidates trying to pick their lanes.

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And it feels like one is going more of the progressive lane and the other is trying to

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go a little bit more moderate.

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I think that push-pull between national Democrats and these more kind of, we know our community.

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We are kind of the progressive wing.

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It was also on display in New York.

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A number of the candidates who were defeated were backed by these national Democratic groups

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that Rich was just talking about.

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And so again, while we're trying to see how our Democrats feeling, how are they kind of

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leaning going into what they are hoping broadly to be a wave election, like who are they putting

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their money behind as the people who can deliver that?

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And so in New York, part of the answer was people whose policies do fall a little bit

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to the left.

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It's really interesting to see in the governor's race and in some of these competitive congressional

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races here in Wisconsin, what do Wisconsin Democrats, where do they put their money behind?

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I guess the thing that strikes me is that the thing that's missing in Wisconsin is that

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you don't have a massively powerful endorsement, it seems, as they did in New York from Mayor

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Mondami, who came in and said, this is what it means to be a Democrat right now.

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This is my slate.

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Essentially, these are my people.

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And it seems to have worked.

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Is there anything like that in, let's say, the third congressional district for Emily

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Berge?

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Is there somebody like that coming in and saying, this is the progressive choice?

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Not that I know of.

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Not that I know of.

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Meanwhile, Cook has gotten all kinds of endorsements from sitting members of Congress, the Senate,

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et cetera, and also the backing of the national party and a whole number of third party groups

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as well.

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I'm not aware of any big endorsements.

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Actually, the endorsements that Berge has been promoting have been from essentially local

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government, city council, county board, school boards, et cetera.

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So I guess I'm wondering if that person who could move the field like that even exists

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in Wisconsin for Wisconsin Democrats, I mean, the state party is staying out of this race

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for governor.

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They have massive financial resources and could tip the field potentially if they wanted

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to.

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They're definitely not going there.

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We have a Democratic governor who has some power.

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He's not being vocal with his endorsements.

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Is this power vacuum sort of leaving us up in the air about what's going to happen?

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Yeah.

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We've talked about this a little bit in the context of Republicans because there is such

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a clear leader of the party and in President Donald Trump.

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And so Democrats don't quite have that for many reasons, including that they don't hold

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these majorities in Washington.

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They don't hold the White House.

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But I think also this really is a little bit of like an existentially exploratory time

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for Democrats, both here in Wisconsin, where they are facing the best odds that they've

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had in a long time of getting some real legislative power.

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But then nationally, seeing there were other primaries that took place on Tuesday as well

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outside of New York, where more moderate Democrats won one issue that was really prevalent

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in a lot of these races was Israel and the war in Gaza and how that is playing out how

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that's kind of dividing up the Democratic party.

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We've seen that a little bit in like Milwaukee politics where that's played a real issue.

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I don't know to what extent that will be important statewide.

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And so that could be one place where Wisconsin's politics, obviously, of course, are naturally

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very 50-50 purple stance could look really different than some of these places where Democrats

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feel a little bit safer, like we know we're going to get one of our guys in.

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So let's try to really move the needle on what that looks like.

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So I got to say, as somebody who's covered Wisconsin politics for a while now, it's

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still a little bit jarring to me to see people just self-identify as Democratic socialist,

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for example.

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I think five years ago, I wasn't seeing that.

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But I remember Anya, one of the first stories you did when you came to Wisconsin Public

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Radio was about this socialist caucus in the Wisconsin legislature where, you know, for

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years, it was Republicans who were calling Democrats socialists, and they were like,

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no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not, we're just, we're Democrats.

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And now Democrats are saying, yeah, we are, that's who we represent.

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That's our values.

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Yeah.

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And like you say, I was, I think, truly a week into my career in 2023, it was a new legislative

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session.

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And these two assembly members from Milwaukee, they, you know, they caucus with the Democrats,

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but they identify as part of the socialist caucus.

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That caucus now has grown, I'm going to get the number wrong, but it's something like

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seven or eight people.

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And so it's, it's not small.

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And you're right that there are especially Republican members who will sometimes be so

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outraged at this idea that there are people who are identifying as socialists.

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But then you also, you know, when I go again to a Francesca Hong rally, that's something

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that people see as a, as a reason that they support her.

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And so it is one of those things that, yeah, the term can either be an insult or it can

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be an endorsement depending on who's leveling it.

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Her basic message seems to be, these are dire times, we need a new kind of politics.

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Rich, I do think that Republicans have a different take when it comes to this stuff, though,

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as they, as you've, as you've seen them react to the results in New York City and what's

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going on here in Wisconsin, how do they feel about it?

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Well based on what I've seen from, I guess, some of the talking heads on social media,

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I could sum it up as this, all Democrats are socialists, that's what Republicans are

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trying to pitch right now to voters.

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Obviously, we know that there's all kinds of degrees to being a Republican, you know,

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conservative, liberal, et cetera.

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I mean, just a million different stripes out there, but Republicans are excited about Hong

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maybe being the nominee in Wisconsin because they think that that'll give them the best

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shot at making sure that Tom Tiffany wins.

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And in fact, they have been pointing to this one, one poll that came out weeks and weeks

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ago, maybe longer, that showed head-to-head match-ups with all of the Democratic candidates.

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At the time, there were the seven major candidates.

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And literally the only one in that poll that lost to, or that, that Tiffany wouldn't have

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lost to, again, it's all theoretical, and it only, I guess, represents what people

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who took the survey felt on that day, but it was Francesca Hong.

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And so not only are they literally talking about, well, we hope that this is the nominee,

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there are also some, some Republicans are saying, hey, why don't you go out and meddle

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in that primary, vote for Hong, you know, cross over, because the other primaries on

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the GOP side aren't as big of a deal.

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I literally saw a post last night saying the race for governor is the whole game.

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So Republicans go cross over, vote for Hong, that'll make it easier for Tiffany in the

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general.

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So yeah, there are politics sometimes when you're attacking opponents, you like to paint

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with a broad brush.

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So they're seeing this rise up of some of these Democratic socialist candidates around

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America.

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And they're saying, well, look.

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This is Democrats in disarray.

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This is proof that the party has moved to the left, et cetera, et cetera.

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I wish we had more polling right now on this race.

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You look back at the recent public poll and it's like in March in terms of Marquette polls,

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for example, I have a feeling though that you might have a lot of people saying, I haven't

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heard enough about the candidates and I haven't made it my mind.

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It's June.

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Leave me alone.

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But let's talk about the field.

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We had a seven candidate Democratic primary this week shrink to a six candidate primary.

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Can we still use the word crowded when we're talking about that?

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It's big anyway for a primary field.

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So pretty crowded, I'm sorry.

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Miss Hughes dropped out the former CEO of the state's economic development agency.

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She immediately endorsed Lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez.

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This is just an open question.

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How big a deal was this?

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Well, you know, we've been talking for weeks about are we going to see any dropouts before

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August?

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And so this was the first one.

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It was definitely a bit of breaking news.

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And I think one of the things that we've been talking about so much is this idea of

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lanes and how these candidates can kind of stand out and make themselves seem, you know,

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picking me would be different than picking anyone else.

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And so I think in her statement and then an interview she gave after, Miss Hughes kind

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of, she spoke about the ways that Democrats are going to hurt each other if they are

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trying to, if they are taking up space that could be taken up by somebody else.

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She said she hopes to see other people drop out.

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And so I think that is a little bit of a nod to the fact that they need that while Democrats

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are trying to figure out who they are trying to be, what they are trying to represent,

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and how do I beat Tom Tiffany or other people who are picked by Donald Trump?

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What does that look like for the Democrats?

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And so I think this was a signal that one person at least made that calculus of what

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was good for the party and then how to kind of throw her power and her weight behind that.

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Rich?

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I would say that it's not that big of a deal.

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It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me because Hughes wasn't pulling very high

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and running for office, even running a primary, it's very expensive.

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So I have no idea why she decided to step down or out of the race.

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But the endorsement of is something.

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But again, there are still six people in the race and I'll just say that Hughes dropping

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out.

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She was essentially a pro-business kind of a Democrat, talked a lot about how if you improve

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the economy, you can improve people's lives with these other programs and et cetera.

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But the Republicans have said, well, look, if more proof, they're pushing the moderates

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out.

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So it's all a word game, I guess.

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But big picture, I'm not sure it makes a huge deal.

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She was the kind of candidate who you could imagine in a Democratic year like we could

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be headed toward in the Trump midterm.

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If she was the general election candidate, you could imagine someone like Missy Hughes

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winning and become a governor.

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But in a Democratic primary, pitching that business message, especially at this moment

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in time, it seemed like a hard sell.

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She also did go for that moderate lane a little bit there a month or so ago when she was the

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only one who came out really in support of that failed surplus deal that was negotiated

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by Tony Evers and Robin Voss among other Republicans in the legislature.

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The other thing that made her unique is that she comes from Western Wisconsin.

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That's right.

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She's the only one.

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Right.

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This sort of bastion of Democratic politics has moved very far away from that.

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Every other candidate is Milwaukee or Madison.

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And so it's also, I think, a little bit of a signifier that she was not able to make

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much of a splash even with that more rural, farmer-focused Western Wisconsin background

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that, again, as we look at where is the party going, that it seems to be going towards

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the major basis of Milwaukee County, Dane County.

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Okay.

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Another open question here, I guess.

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Is there any connection, do you think, to the Francesca Hong story that we've been talking

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about and Missy Hughes endorsing someone like Sarah Rodriguez?

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Is she making a bet that, look, this candidate's politics kind of aligns with mine, we got

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to unite and stop the candidates from the left?

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I mean, I don't know what's in her heart.

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Sure.

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I would never guess.

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But, again, from this idea of not wanting to kind of crowd out people who are similar

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to you, who have similar politics, who you think could do a good and effective job in making

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those politics a reality.

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If you have one quite popular candidate who is Francesca Hong, again, polling shows

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her towards the top, and then you have a number of people kind of further towards

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the center, all fighting amongst themselves, right?

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Missy Hughes voters and Fran Hong voters were probably never going to, you know, nobody's

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vacillating between those two candidates.

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And so that's maybe a way of trying to bring some more strength into the not democratic

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socialist wing of the Democratic Party, going into what's expected to just be an incredibly

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tight general election.

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She did say something in her press conference where she endorsed Sarah Rodriguez.

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She can't come out there and say, hey, I'm kind of the moderate candidate.

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I support her.

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But she said, we don't need, we got a lot of good things going on in this state.

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We don't need to tear it all down.

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So that, to me, is a signal that she supports the kind of politics, which is similar to

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what we've got already in Wisconsin, including the Evers administration, which she and she

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and Sarah Rodriguez have served under.

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So that's all the time we have today.

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Thanks for joining us.

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Our colleague Zach Schultz will be back next week.

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This has been Inside Wisconsin Politics.

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Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org, wpr.org, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.