WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.000 You 00:31.000 --> 00:35.280 Democrats running for governor have less than two months to stand out in a crowded field 00:35.560 --> 00:41.420 How'd they do that at the state party convention and we run through developments and lawsuits involving voter rolls 00:41.800 --> 00:46.600 Legislative maps and false electors. This is inside Wisconsin politics 00:51.480 --> 00:56.360 I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wente. Let's try that again Anya 01:00.000 --> 01:04.760 I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wente. Donk and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey gang 01:06.240 --> 01:07.040 Hey, Sean 01:07.040 --> 01:14.800 So I think it's fair to say Anya that this campaign this primary campaign will not be won or lost by what was said in the 01:14.800 --> 01:16.720 Room at the Democratic State Convention 01:16.720 --> 01:20.440 But I still think these are interesting because you have all seven candidates there 01:20.640 --> 01:25.400 They're under the same set of rules in terms of how long they can speak the same audience 01:27.880 --> 01:29.880 Okay 01:30.000 --> 01:38.300 Mmm, what is the end of that question? I just ramble like that perfect 17 and a half minutes. Am I supposed to not say hey, Sean? 01:41.360 --> 01:45.680 I think you can let it I would yield to the control room if they have but I think it 01:45.680 --> 01:50.840 I think there was you could just not as well just the nod. That's what that meant. Okay. I wasn't sure 01:51.680 --> 01:53.680 Mm-hmm 01:55.160 --> 02:00.320 I mean honestly we could just do it that way forever as far as I'm concerned the question is what was what was it like? 02:15.600 --> 02:19.600 Democrats running for governor have less than two months to stand out in a crowded field 02:19.800 --> 02:28.080 How'd they do that at the state party convention and we run through developments in lawsuits involving voter rolls legislative maps and fall selectors 02:28.360 --> 02:30.880 This is inside Wisconsin politics 02:34.880 --> 02:40.280 I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wechtendank and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey gang 02:41.960 --> 02:47.760 So I think it's fair to say that this primary campaign is not going to be won or lost 02:48.160 --> 02:52.120 Based on what happened in the room at the state party convention over the weekend 02:52.120 --> 02:59.360 But you did head of all seven candidates there. They were under the same set of rules speaking to the same group of Democratic activists 03:00.360 --> 03:01.760 What was it like? 03:01.760 --> 03:04.160 Yeah, you know, I say this with all due respect 03:04.720 --> 03:07.880 Normal people do not attend state party conventions, right? 03:07.880 --> 03:12.240 These are like the most die-hard Democrats the most I heard Republicans who go to that convention 03:12.240 --> 03:18.000 And so these are the people who are like the most energized about their party and are going to be the ones to hopefully 03:18.480 --> 03:23.080 You know bring in their their fellow, but like less excited Democrats 03:23.080 --> 03:28.560 And so I think that was kind of the vibe of the speeches that you were getting from the gubernatorial candidates 03:28.560 --> 03:31.480 Which is that they were trying to appeal to this base, right? 03:31.480 --> 03:34.760 the most kind of committed Democrats possible and 03:35.200 --> 03:40.280 Also make the case not only that they should stand out in the seven-person primary going into August 03:40.280 --> 03:45.240 But that they all are also most sort of best position to beat Tom Tiffany in November 03:45.240 --> 03:50.280 And so those are kind of two different arguments that you need to be making the one that makes you most appealing to Democrats 03:50.280 --> 03:52.760 And then the one that makes you most appealing to kind of your average 03:53.000 --> 03:58.120 Wisconsinite and a lot of there was a lot of kind of threading of that needle while also trying to get excitement 03:58.120 --> 04:00.640 So it was it was definitely a little bit of a dance going on 04:00.800 --> 04:03.520 But that I think was kind of the the overarching theme 04:03.960 --> 04:08.760 what what common threads should out to you. I mean like what was a 04:09.600 --> 04:13.080 A theme that stood out in all the speeches or at least most of them 04:13.080 --> 04:18.120 Yeah, so kind of to so the Tom Tiffany theme and also by extension Donald Trump 04:18.120 --> 04:20.240 Right a lot of time trying to tie the two of those together 04:20.320 --> 04:24.760 But then affordability was kind of the the word of the day the theme of the convention was 04:25.480 --> 04:30.120 Reclaiming the American dream and and each of the candidates talked in 04:30.360 --> 04:38.040 Either broader or more specific terms sort of depending on the candidate about what they would do to basically put more money in people's pockets 04:38.120 --> 04:43.760 Lower prices make things more affordable in Wisconsin. All right, so rich you and I were not at this convention 04:44.080 --> 04:47.520 Although we had a chance to listen to these speeches later. What's said out to you? 04:49.560 --> 04:51.080 Well 04:51.080 --> 04:57.400 On you already mentioned it. There was a lot of talk about Donald Trump and the chaos in Washington from his administration 04:57.600 --> 05:06.200 That's according to these Democratic candidates and it's pretty obvious why they would focus on the president and his you know 05:06.680 --> 05:13.280 Popularity rating is pretty low in polling. So it seems like there's they're hoping that 05:13.600 --> 05:21.000 Trump will be a liability for Tom Tiffany as they as they move forward in this campaign and also they're there 05:21.040 --> 05:26.120 There's only one Republican in the race. So they're able to focus their attacks on one person 05:26.760 --> 05:31.920 Meanwhile, you know Tom Tiffany doesn't have to worry about trying to stand out among Republican 05:32.240 --> 05:37.480 Competitors in his primary or in a primary. So that's what stuck out 05:37.480 --> 05:42.440 But there was some other things that stood out in terms of like the closest thing to 05:43.200 --> 05:48.280 criticizing other Democrats seemed to come from state senator Kilda Roy's and 05:48.720 --> 05:51.840 She just basically said the party cannot afford to 05:52.320 --> 05:54.320 to pick a nominee that 05:54.720 --> 06:01.720 Would put a Democratic trifecta that is the state Senate state assembly and the governor's office in jeopardy 06:01.920 --> 06:04.960 so no names were named but 06:05.520 --> 06:11.880 people might be able to infer who or how many you know people she might have been talking about and 06:12.040 --> 06:17.120 Of course, there was a number of like pretty bold promises from some of these candidates as well. Yeah 06:17.480 --> 06:21.720 That that did that criticism did jump out to me. There was another one 06:21.720 --> 06:28.680 I think you could argue from Francesca Hong saying that yes, you go out on the campaign trail people can 06:29.200 --> 06:34.720 Detect BS. We're not gonna say the word because family show here guys, but she was 06:35.720 --> 06:37.600 essentially without naming names saying 06:38.280 --> 06:42.480 The other candidates aren't as authentic as me is the way that I heard it 06:42.480 --> 06:48.440 I'll tell you one other thing that kind of stood out to me and just upon first review of the speeches 06:48.440 --> 06:53.680 I want a way to think in these these felt like general election speeches a little bit 06:53.680 --> 06:58.600 I mean, this is a primary where they're almost gonna have to some of them 06:58.600 --> 07:03.360 I'm gonna have to get negative if they want to climb the ladder and be the party's candidate and 07:04.320 --> 07:08.640 You know even the the you know criticisms. We just mentioned rich weren't exactly 07:09.480 --> 07:17.000 Super negative and the message is I could absolutely imagine them in a general election campaign against Tom Tiffany 07:17.360 --> 07:20.960 But they are on you. They're trying to win this democratic primary 07:21.440 --> 07:24.400 Among a smaller group of voters right now, right? 07:24.400 --> 07:27.280 But it is this balancing act where as Rich said, right? 07:27.280 --> 07:30.840 They are going for a trifecta and that was another big theme of the weekend 07:30.840 --> 07:34.680 It's this idea that Democrats really think that they could take over all three chambers of government 07:34.680 --> 07:40.120 And so they need to try to distinguish themselves and most of them don't have that kind of you know statewide 07:40.400 --> 07:44.360 Visibility so they are still trying to get just like baseline name recognition 07:44.360 --> 07:49.800 Which is important for a primary but then also not do anything to harm other Democrats because you know 07:49.800 --> 07:54.000 If you have sort of a one-in-seven chance and I know that's not exactly how statistics work 07:54.440 --> 07:59.120 But something like that and so you don't move forward. You don't want to have weakened your party 07:59.120 --> 08:03.800 You don't want to be giving Tom Tiffany sort of free fodder for your opponent opponents 08:03.800 --> 08:07.400 And so I think that we will see a little bit more maybe of those veiled attacks 08:07.920 --> 08:09.920 but in a way that's more aimed at sort of 08:10.800 --> 08:17.120 Holding themselves up rather than necessarily going negative at this point because Tom Tiffany as as Rich mentioned 08:17.440 --> 08:19.120 Is sort of in a field by himself? 08:19.120 --> 08:21.240 He technically has an opponent but more or less 08:21.240 --> 08:24.440 He's the presumptive nominee and so he's not going to get weakened in a primary 08:24.440 --> 08:26.240 So they need to be very careful themselves 08:26.240 --> 08:33.520 It can't work against you in a primary particularly a democratic primary to go negative where you have voters who have kind of that same 08:33.520 --> 08:36.160 Idea that like look the goal is November 08:36.720 --> 08:39.200 Stop fighting and show us how you're different 08:40.280 --> 08:43.560 Rich anything that jump out to you there and what Ani was just mentioning 08:44.560 --> 08:49.120 Well, I wanted to to kind of go back to when when she mentioned 08:50.440 --> 08:56.680 The you know the slides and the the the electability and all that stuff one of the candidates 08:56.680 --> 09:02.520 You know early on even before he announced Mandela Barnes former lieutenant governor former state representative 09:04.200 --> 09:06.200 He during his speech 09:06.720 --> 09:08.960 He he or let me go back 09:09.440 --> 09:15.240 Well before he got in the race some Democrats were publicly saying well, he lost in 2022 09:15.240 --> 09:20.960 You know, we don't need that again, but during his speech and he brought that up and he said well 09:20.960 --> 09:25.440 That's why I'm more experienced. I've been through this came within a one-point 09:25.920 --> 09:30.840 Percentage point of Ron Johnson in 2022. That's why I have the experience that and the other 09:32.680 --> 09:35.680 Resume stuff that he's got so I just wanted to mention that yeah 09:35.680 --> 09:38.000 There was a lot of conversation about electability 09:38.000 --> 09:42.600 Which again, I think speaks to trying to signal that they could beat Tom Tiffany in the fall 09:42.600 --> 09:48.760 And so you had for example Fran Hong pointed to the fact that she's if not the most far left 09:48.880 --> 09:54.760 candidate certainly among them and the fact that some people have have brought that up as a liability against her as 09:55.240 --> 09:59.880 passionate as her supporters are her opponents are sort of equally passionate and she talked about well actually 09:59.880 --> 10:01.880 I am part of a legacy of 10:02.040 --> 10:04.120 Wisconsin progressives who were elected 10:04.160 --> 10:11.280 So rather than that being a liability for me that actually makes me more electable because people are excited about someone who doesn't bring BS 10:11.480 --> 10:16.620 And and David Crowley as well. He pointed to the fact that there has never been a 10:17.440 --> 10:21.760 Black candidate who is one statewide office and he says that everywhere he goes 10:21.760 --> 10:24.960 People ask him can a black man become governor in Wisconsin? 10:24.960 --> 10:25.920 And he said well 10:25.920 --> 10:32.800 I can for the following reasons and so he named that sort of elephant in the room as a way of also drawing attention to his record 10:32.800 --> 10:36.240 And so again, just kind of the way that the candidates are trying to distinguish themselves 10:36.560 --> 10:40.360 Not just on their own terms, but also for what they can deliver in November 10:40.760 --> 10:46.120 And there was a straw poll at this convention on you and I feel like you know 10:46.120 --> 10:51.960 It's it's kind of fun to talk about what but we should say a thousand grains of salt here for this poll because this is not a scientific 10:51.960 --> 10:56.860 Poll the margin of error would be look. I'm not qualified to calculate it very high 10:57.420 --> 10:59.420 Franklin would have a lot to say about it 10:59.420 --> 11:01.780 You'd say don't pay attention to straw polls would be my guess 11:02.020 --> 11:07.820 But you had all these Democrats in a room and if they wanted to they could go to the booth run by WIS politics 11:07.820 --> 11:14.500 which does these at all the conventions and and you could vote for your candidate of choice among the primary field and 11:15.640 --> 11:21.860 How did that resolve? Yeah, really interesting lieutenant governor Sarah Rodriguez came out first and again 11:21.940 --> 11:24.180 If Fran Hong is sort of further to the left 11:24.180 --> 11:27.220 She's a little bit further to the center, but then Fran Hong was number two 11:27.220 --> 11:32.180 And so you kind of have a little bit of the polls of what the party is presenting right now 11:32.340 --> 11:38.700 One who might be doing better in a in a primary race again, given just sort of the excitement. That's around her 11:38.700 --> 11:42.500 That's Fran Hong and then one who perhaps could appeal to a broader audience that is 11:42.980 --> 11:46.820 Sarah Rodriguez who comes from a more of a business background. She was a health care executive and a nurse 11:46.820 --> 11:52.540 She won she flipped a Republican seat when she ran for the assembly in the Waukesha in the Waukesha suburbs 11:52.820 --> 11:58.300 And so you had these two different models and it kind of looked like Democrats a little bit split among them 12:00.020 --> 12:03.400 So I want to throw some caution at the poll here that the straw poll 12:03.740 --> 12:11.180 Which is looking back at the 2018 straw poll when you had even more candidates running for governor kind of depending on when you mentioned them 12:12.020 --> 12:16.820 You probably have are aware of this by now or have heard it or seen it recently 12:16.820 --> 12:19.780 But that year Kaldor Royce won the straw poll 12:20.300 --> 12:25.980 She went on to finish third in the primary a distant third, but she wanted overwhelmingly at convention 12:27.060 --> 12:30.580 Do you happen to know where Tony Evers placed in that straw poll? 12:31.620 --> 12:35.860 This is the beginning of our quiz section here guys, so Tony Evers placed third 12:36.060 --> 12:41.300 He had he had 91 votes compared to Kaldor was 184 that year 12:41.900 --> 12:43.900 Right behind him were Andy 12:44.620 --> 12:46.620 Gronic and Dana walks 12:47.100 --> 12:51.580 They have something in common they both dropped out of the race by the end of June that year 12:51.580 --> 12:53.660 So the the convention was in June 2nd 12:53.660 --> 13:02.700 I think and they were dropped out by the 21st and 22nd so right so again appealing to quote-unquote normal people versus appealing to the most kind of 13:03.180 --> 13:06.260 Revved up Democrats who follow every kind of twist and turn about that 13:06.260 --> 13:13.140 So it doesn't necessarily translate to what a general voter or general audience is interested in sure and there's also a certain amount of 13:13.900 --> 13:17.460 Campaigning you can do in the room at these things. You can say hey 13:18.820 --> 13:23.900 Get over to that desk that's run by with politics, and I think you should really vote for us and bring your people 13:23.900 --> 13:27.900 Bring your people absolutely, and I'm sure some of that went on at this convention 13:28.540 --> 13:30.540 So okay, okay 13:30.540 --> 13:36.180 I did want to play a little game with with you two since we have you here. Would that be okay? 13:36.980 --> 13:41.940 All right sure ready you have no choice right? We're recording a live show here, so 13:42.420 --> 13:46.140 I was just looking back through these speeches and through the benefit of 13:46.820 --> 13:48.220 being able to 13:48.220 --> 13:53.140 Look at the transcript a number of times that certain words were mentioned and these things 13:53.940 --> 13:56.700 You can see kind of who hit themes really hard 13:58.580 --> 14:04.340 So the first one I look for was Trump who said Trump the most anybody want a hazard a guess 14:04.980 --> 14:06.980 rich you go first 14:07.420 --> 14:09.420 I'm gonna say 14:10.300 --> 14:12.300 Rodriguez 14:12.300 --> 14:15.900 Might have been Joel Brennan. All right. All right rich 14:16.580 --> 14:23.300 You win buddy you got it's erud regas and Mandela Barnes were right up at the top there mentioned him six times Joel Brennan 14:23.820 --> 14:27.460 after them and then everybody mentioned Trump at least once but 14:28.260 --> 14:35.900 Rodriguez and Barnes kind of hitting to my year similar themes in those messages too like they sounded like maybe they were 14:35.900 --> 14:38.300 running a little bit of a November campaign or a 14:39.140 --> 14:42.220 Safer message in their speeches. Okay. How about 14:43.340 --> 14:49.820 Tiffany and that to be clear. Nobody mentioned the Truman Capote book that was adapted into a movie and later 14:49.900 --> 14:54.220 You know celebrated in a song who mentioned Tiffany Tom Tiffany the most 14:57.460 --> 15:01.620 Gosh, I'm just stuck on that dad joke now, I was I'm proud of that 15:02.900 --> 15:06.660 That song by the way in my head all the time and I hated it when I came out 15:06.660 --> 15:08.660 But the beauty of nostalgia 15:10.060 --> 15:14.660 I'm gonna vote Roy's. Well if for this there you go. There you go. There you go. That is not 15:15.060 --> 15:16.700 We got you 15:16.700 --> 15:19.700 Kilda Roy's how about you who mentioned Tiffany the most? 15:22.260 --> 15:28.820 Mr. Hughes all right good good guesses everybody Sarah Rodriguez was tops and Tiffany mentions 15:29.540 --> 15:35.700 Followed by Joel Brennan Mandela Barnes and Kilda Roy's mentioned and once David Crowley Missy Hughes and Francesca Hong didn't even mention 15:35.700 --> 15:37.700 Tom Tiffany 15:38.700 --> 15:44.460 No, I mean, I think it's it's the kind of thing you assume that you heard a bunch of people say and then you go back and look and realize 15:44.500 --> 15:49.980 Well, they didn't actually mention that specific guy. I have I predict whoever wins this primary though 15:49.980 --> 15:52.500 We'll mention him a lot in TV as between now and November 15:53.380 --> 15:54.420 Okay, how about this? 15:54.420 --> 16:00.860 We've got a we've got a Democratic governor right now and a lot of these people have worked with or for this Democratic governor 16:01.220 --> 16:06.620 Who do you think might have mentioned Evers a few times rich? What do you think? 16:08.740 --> 16:15.300 Well, I would say it have to be someone that worked within the administration or alongside him 16:16.300 --> 16:18.300 So that narrows it down to 16:18.460 --> 16:24.380 For people I would say Brennan. Yeah, okay. I'm on you. I think it was also Brennan 16:24.380 --> 16:28.540 He also made a point of saying fix the darn roads. He said to be really time 16:28.540 --> 16:35.800 Yeah, it was Mandela Barnes Tony Evers former lieutenant governor followed by Joel Brennan his former Deois secretary followed by 16:36.220 --> 16:39.420 Sarah Rodriguez's current lieutenant governor and Missy Hughes his former 16:39.980 --> 16:45.340 We'd a CEO no mention of Tony Evers by Francesca Hong killed Royce or David Crowley, so 16:46.220 --> 16:50.700 Tony Evers back there taking notes like I see you I see you okay one more one more I promise 16:51.180 --> 16:57.900 And this is a little different you got a chance at this convention to differentiate yourself one way you can just tell these delegates 16:58.380 --> 16:59.580 I'm different 16:59.580 --> 17:01.100 Who said? 17:01.100 --> 17:06.300 Only candidate as in I'm I'm the only candidate. Oh, I know this one. Okay. Let's hear Fran Hong said 17:06.300 --> 17:11.540 I am the only candidate who proposes a moratorium on data centers and free childcare and 17:12.060 --> 17:18.220 You are correct on you. She mentioned it four times. This was interesting to me rich 17:19.100 --> 17:21.500 Kilda Royce was there. She mentioned it a couple times 17:22.380 --> 17:25.740 Her message was I'm the only candidate who's been a legislator 17:25.820 --> 17:34.060 I got I got bills it was basically what she was saying and then David Crowley the only candidate who has executive experience and nobody else used that turn a phrase 17:35.260 --> 17:40.620 A big grain of salt for that one too, which is very unscientific, but I find it fun to run through that stuff 17:42.140 --> 17:47.340 Unscientific, but you've probably made a spreadsheet. I did make a spreadsheet. You're doing right. Yeah 17:47.340 --> 17:49.660 Made a lot easier for me to list those things real quick 17:50.460 --> 17:54.380 So we want to move on real quick to some legal developments this week a 17:55.100 --> 18:00.780 Few small legal developments in big cases rich first. Let's start with there was this 18:01.180 --> 18:07.980 decision by the state Supreme Court to hear an appeal in a redistricting case congressional redistricting case 18:07.980 --> 18:11.340 Is this a big deal or an incremental step? 18:12.860 --> 18:14.860 It's pretty incremental 18:15.260 --> 18:17.340 So these are about the congressional maps 18:17.500 --> 18:23.820 There's two of them that have been two of these appeals of these cases challenging the congressional map 18:24.300 --> 18:29.580 as gerrymandered for various reasons jerry various types of gerrymandering and 18:30.140 --> 18:34.940 It sounds exciting that it's made it to the supreme court, but all they're doing in both situations is 18:35.660 --> 18:39.820 They will be deciding whether or not these three judge panels they appointed 18:40.300 --> 18:45.740 Were correct in how they dismissed these challenges and those panels essentially said 18:46.460 --> 18:51.180 They dismissed them because they don't have the authority to overturn the maps which were 18:51.740 --> 18:56.620 Put in place by the supreme court and a lower court cannot overrule a higher court like that 18:57.100 --> 18:58.060 so 18:58.060 --> 19:01.580 What i've been told is that that probably means these will go back 19:02.220 --> 19:04.780 Through the court system back to the lower courts and work their way up 19:04.780 --> 19:07.900 But the supreme court justices will have to decide whether or not 19:08.460 --> 19:11.340 These gerrymandering claims can even move forward 19:12.380 --> 19:19.100 So that's a big question, but in short it doesn't mean there's it likely doesn't mean that there's going to be any new map 19:19.180 --> 19:23.740 Before the 2026 election. There's just not enough time. Okay and lightning around here. You had a 19:24.380 --> 19:26.460 Case you covered on voter rolls what happened there? 19:28.380 --> 19:33.980 So the federal government the department of justice wants to get unredacted voter registration information 19:34.460 --> 19:36.460 from wisconsin and 19:36.780 --> 19:41.820 That includes you know drivers license numbers and social security numbers the last four digits 19:42.780 --> 19:44.780 the elections commission hasn't 19:45.260 --> 19:48.780 Provided that they've given a different list that's publicly available, but 19:49.580 --> 19:57.340 Essentially the case was dismissed last month in federal court. It's being appealed. The doj is appealing it to the seventh circuit 19:57.900 --> 19:59.900 but again 20:00.300 --> 20:06.700 It it will take a while and there's been other examples of this around the nation where the doj has been losing these cases 20:06.780 --> 20:13.020 One of those left to keep an eye on and then anya the false electors case in wisconsin. What happened there? 20:13.500 --> 20:19.820 They pleaded not guilty to 11 counts of felony forgery, including wisconsin's own jim troupas 20:20.380 --> 20:25.420 He's also trying to get the case moved out of dane county circuit court and so that case continues to unfold 20:25.580 --> 20:29.180 All right. Thank you both for keeping an eye on those. That's all the time we have for today 20:29.580 --> 20:32.860 Thanks for joining us. Our colleagues act shelves will be back in a few weeks 20:33.420 --> 20:41.260 This has been inside wisconsin politics. Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org wpr.org youtube or wherever you get your podcasts 20:54.300 --> 20:56.300 I think