You
Democrats running for governor have less than two months to stand out in a crowded field
How'd they do that at the state party convention and we run through developments and lawsuits involving voter rolls
Legislative maps and false electors. This is inside Wisconsin politics
I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wente. Let's try that again Anya
I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wente. Donk and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey gang
Hey, Sean
So I think it's fair to say Anya that this campaign this primary campaign will not be won or lost by what was said in the
Room at the Democratic State Convention
But I still think these are interesting because you have all seven candidates there
They're under the same set of rules in terms of how long they can speak the same audience
Okay
Mmm, what is the end of that question? I just ramble like that perfect 17 and a half minutes. Am I supposed to not say hey, Sean?
I think you can let it I would yield to the control room if they have but I think it
I think there was you could just not as well just the nod. That's what that meant. Okay. I wasn't sure
Mm-hmm
I mean honestly we could just do it that way forever as far as I'm concerned the question is what was what was it like?
Democrats running for governor have less than two months to stand out in a crowded field
How'd they do that at the state party convention and we run through developments in lawsuits involving voter rolls legislative maps and fall selectors
This is inside Wisconsin politics
I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wechtendank and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey gang
So I think it's fair to say that this primary campaign is not going to be won or lost
Based on what happened in the room at the state party convention over the weekend
But you did head of all seven candidates there. They were under the same set of rules speaking to the same group of Democratic activists
What was it like?
Yeah, you know, I say this with all due respect
Normal people do not attend state party conventions, right?
These are like the most die-hard Democrats the most I heard Republicans who go to that convention
And so these are the people who are like the most energized about their party and are going to be the ones to hopefully
You know bring in their their fellow, but like less excited Democrats
And so I think that was kind of the vibe of the speeches that you were getting from the gubernatorial candidates
Which is that they were trying to appeal to this base, right?
the most kind of committed Democrats possible and
Also make the case not only that they should stand out in the seven-person primary going into August
But that they all are also most sort of best position to beat Tom Tiffany in November
And so those are kind of two different arguments that you need to be making the one that makes you most appealing to Democrats
And then the one that makes you most appealing to kind of your average
Wisconsinite and a lot of there was a lot of kind of threading of that needle while also trying to get excitement
So it was it was definitely a little bit of a dance going on
But that I think was kind of the the overarching theme
what what common threads should out to you. I mean like what was a
A theme that stood out in all the speeches or at least most of them
Yeah, so kind of to so the Tom Tiffany theme and also by extension Donald Trump
Right a lot of time trying to tie the two of those together
But then affordability was kind of the the word of the day the theme of the convention was
Reclaiming the American dream and and each of the candidates talked in
Either broader or more specific terms sort of depending on the candidate about what they would do to basically put more money in people's pockets
Lower prices make things more affordable in Wisconsin. All right, so rich you and I were not at this convention
Although we had a chance to listen to these speeches later. What's said out to you?
Well
On you already mentioned it. There was a lot of talk about Donald Trump and the chaos in Washington from his administration
That's according to these Democratic candidates and it's pretty obvious why they would focus on the president and his you know
Popularity rating is pretty low in polling. So it seems like there's they're hoping that
Trump will be a liability for Tom Tiffany as they as they move forward in this campaign and also they're there
There's only one Republican in the race. So they're able to focus their attacks on one person
Meanwhile, you know Tom Tiffany doesn't have to worry about trying to stand out among Republican
Competitors in his primary or in a primary. So that's what stuck out
But there was some other things that stood out in terms of like the closest thing to
criticizing other Democrats seemed to come from state senator Kilda Roy's and
She just basically said the party cannot afford to
to pick a nominee that
Would put a Democratic trifecta that is the state Senate state assembly and the governor's office in jeopardy
so no names were named but
people might be able to infer who or how many you know people she might have been talking about and
Of course, there was a number of like pretty bold promises from some of these candidates as well. Yeah
That that did that criticism did jump out to me. There was another one
I think you could argue from Francesca Hong saying that yes, you go out on the campaign trail people can
Detect BS. We're not gonna say the word because family show here guys, but she was
essentially without naming names saying
The other candidates aren't as authentic as me is the way that I heard it
I'll tell you one other thing that kind of stood out to me and just upon first review of the speeches
I want a way to think in these these felt like general election speeches a little bit
I mean, this is a primary where they're almost gonna have to some of them
I'm gonna have to get negative if they want to climb the ladder and be the party's candidate and
You know even the the you know criticisms. We just mentioned rich weren't exactly
Super negative and the message is I could absolutely imagine them in a general election campaign against Tom Tiffany
But they are on you. They're trying to win this democratic primary
Among a smaller group of voters right now, right?
But it is this balancing act where as Rich said, right?
They are going for a trifecta and that was another big theme of the weekend
It's this idea that Democrats really think that they could take over all three chambers of government
And so they need to try to distinguish themselves and most of them don't have that kind of you know statewide
Visibility so they are still trying to get just like baseline name recognition
Which is important for a primary but then also not do anything to harm other Democrats because you know
If you have sort of a one-in-seven chance and I know that's not exactly how statistics work
But something like that and so you don't move forward. You don't want to have weakened your party
You don't want to be giving Tom Tiffany sort of free fodder for your opponent opponents
And so I think that we will see a little bit more maybe of those veiled attacks
but in a way that's more aimed at sort of
Holding themselves up rather than necessarily going negative at this point because Tom Tiffany as as Rich mentioned
Is sort of in a field by himself?
He technically has an opponent but more or less
He's the presumptive nominee and so he's not going to get weakened in a primary
So they need to be very careful themselves
It can't work against you in a primary particularly a democratic primary to go negative where you have voters who have kind of that same
Idea that like look the goal is November
Stop fighting and show us how you're different
Rich anything that jump out to you there and what Ani was just mentioning
Well, I wanted to to kind of go back to when when she mentioned
The you know the slides and the the the electability and all that stuff one of the candidates
You know early on even before he announced Mandela Barnes former lieutenant governor former state representative
He during his speech
He he or let me go back
Well before he got in the race some Democrats were publicly saying well, he lost in 2022
You know, we don't need that again, but during his speech and he brought that up and he said well
That's why I'm more experienced. I've been through this came within a one-point
Percentage point of Ron Johnson in 2022. That's why I have the experience that and the other
Resume stuff that he's got so I just wanted to mention that yeah
There was a lot of conversation about electability
Which again, I think speaks to trying to signal that they could beat Tom Tiffany in the fall
And so you had for example Fran Hong pointed to the fact that she's if not the most far left
candidate certainly among them and the fact that some people have have brought that up as a liability against her as
passionate as her supporters are her opponents are sort of equally passionate and she talked about well actually
I am part of a legacy of
Wisconsin progressives who were elected
So rather than that being a liability for me that actually makes me more electable because people are excited about someone who doesn't bring BS
And and David Crowley as well. He pointed to the fact that there has never been a
Black candidate who is one statewide office and he says that everywhere he goes
People ask him can a black man become governor in Wisconsin?
And he said well
I can for the following reasons and so he named that sort of elephant in the room as a way of also drawing attention to his record
And so again, just kind of the way that the candidates are trying to distinguish themselves
Not just on their own terms, but also for what they can deliver in November
And there was a straw poll at this convention on you and I feel like you know
It's it's kind of fun to talk about what but we should say a thousand grains of salt here for this poll because this is not a scientific
Poll the margin of error would be look. I'm not qualified to calculate it very high
Franklin would have a lot to say about it
You'd say don't pay attention to straw polls would be my guess
But you had all these Democrats in a room and if they wanted to they could go to the booth run by WIS politics
which does these at all the conventions and and you could vote for your candidate of choice among the primary field and
How did that resolve? Yeah, really interesting lieutenant governor Sarah Rodriguez came out first and again
If Fran Hong is sort of further to the left
She's a little bit further to the center, but then Fran Hong was number two
And so you kind of have a little bit of the polls of what the party is presenting right now
One who might be doing better in a in a primary race again, given just sort of the excitement. That's around her
That's Fran Hong and then one who perhaps could appeal to a broader audience that is
Sarah Rodriguez who comes from a more of a business background. She was a health care executive and a nurse
She won she flipped a Republican seat when she ran for the assembly in the Waukesha in the Waukesha suburbs
And so you had these two different models and it kind of looked like Democrats a little bit split among them
So I want to throw some caution at the poll here that the straw poll
Which is looking back at the 2018 straw poll when you had even more candidates running for governor kind of depending on when you mentioned them
You probably have are aware of this by now or have heard it or seen it recently
But that year Kaldor Royce won the straw poll
She went on to finish third in the primary a distant third, but she wanted overwhelmingly at convention
Do you happen to know where Tony Evers placed in that straw poll?
This is the beginning of our quiz section here guys, so Tony Evers placed third
He had he had 91 votes compared to Kaldor was 184 that year
Right behind him were Andy
Gronic and Dana walks
They have something in common they both dropped out of the race by the end of June that year
So the the convention was in June 2nd
I think and they were dropped out by the 21st and 22nd so right so again appealing to quote-unquote normal people versus appealing to the most kind of
Revved up Democrats who follow every kind of twist and turn about that
So it doesn't necessarily translate to what a general voter or general audience is interested in sure and there's also a certain amount of
Campaigning you can do in the room at these things. You can say hey
Get over to that desk that's run by with politics, and I think you should really vote for us and bring your people
Bring your people absolutely, and I'm sure some of that went on at this convention
So okay, okay
I did want to play a little game with with you two since we have you here. Would that be okay?
All right sure ready you have no choice right? We're recording a live show here, so
I was just looking back through these speeches and through the benefit of
being able to
Look at the transcript a number of times that certain words were mentioned and these things
You can see kind of who hit themes really hard
So the first one I look for was Trump who said Trump the most anybody want a hazard a guess
rich you go first
I'm gonna say
Rodriguez
Might have been Joel Brennan. All right. All right rich
You win buddy you got it's erud regas and Mandela Barnes were right up at the top there mentioned him six times Joel Brennan
after them and then everybody mentioned Trump at least once but
Rodriguez and Barnes kind of hitting to my year similar themes in those messages too like they sounded like maybe they were
running a little bit of a November campaign or a
Safer message in their speeches. Okay. How about
Tiffany and that to be clear. Nobody mentioned the Truman Capote book that was adapted into a movie and later
You know celebrated in a song who mentioned Tiffany Tom Tiffany the most
Gosh, I'm just stuck on that dad joke now, I was I'm proud of that
That song by the way in my head all the time and I hated it when I came out
But the beauty of nostalgia
I'm gonna vote Roy's. Well if for this there you go. There you go. There you go. That is not
We got you
Kilda Roy's how about you who mentioned Tiffany the most?
Mr. Hughes all right good good guesses everybody Sarah Rodriguez was tops and Tiffany mentions
Followed by Joel Brennan Mandela Barnes and Kilda Roy's mentioned and once David Crowley Missy Hughes and Francesca Hong didn't even mention
Tom Tiffany
No, I mean, I think it's it's the kind of thing you assume that you heard a bunch of people say and then you go back and look and realize
Well, they didn't actually mention that specific guy. I have I predict whoever wins this primary though
We'll mention him a lot in TV as between now and November
Okay, how about this?
We've got a we've got a Democratic governor right now and a lot of these people have worked with or for this Democratic governor
Who do you think might have mentioned Evers a few times rich? What do you think?
Well, I would say it have to be someone that worked within the administration or alongside him
So that narrows it down to
For people I would say Brennan. Yeah, okay. I'm on you. I think it was also Brennan
He also made a point of saying fix the darn roads. He said to be really time
Yeah, it was Mandela Barnes Tony Evers former lieutenant governor followed by Joel Brennan his former Deois secretary followed by
Sarah Rodriguez's current lieutenant governor and Missy Hughes his former
We'd a CEO no mention of Tony Evers by Francesca Hong killed Royce or David Crowley, so
Tony Evers back there taking notes like I see you I see you okay one more one more I promise
And this is a little different you got a chance at this convention to differentiate yourself one way you can just tell these delegates
I'm different
Who said?
Only candidate as in I'm I'm the only candidate. Oh, I know this one. Okay. Let's hear Fran Hong said
I am the only candidate who proposes a moratorium on data centers and free childcare and
You are correct on you. She mentioned it four times. This was interesting to me rich
Kilda Royce was there. She mentioned it a couple times
Her message was I'm the only candidate who's been a legislator
I got I got bills it was basically what she was saying and then David Crowley the only candidate who has executive experience and nobody else used that turn a phrase
A big grain of salt for that one too, which is very unscientific, but I find it fun to run through that stuff
Unscientific, but you've probably made a spreadsheet. I did make a spreadsheet. You're doing right. Yeah
Made a lot easier for me to list those things real quick
So we want to move on real quick to some legal developments this week a
Few small legal developments in big cases rich first. Let's start with there was this
decision by the state Supreme Court to hear an appeal in a redistricting case congressional redistricting case
Is this a big deal or an incremental step?
It's pretty incremental
So these are about the congressional maps
There's two of them that have been two of these appeals of these cases challenging the congressional map
as gerrymandered for various reasons jerry various types of gerrymandering and
It sounds exciting that it's made it to the supreme court, but all they're doing in both situations is
They will be deciding whether or not these three judge panels they appointed
Were correct in how they dismissed these challenges and those panels essentially said
They dismissed them because they don't have the authority to overturn the maps which were
Put in place by the supreme court and a lower court cannot overrule a higher court like that
so
What i've been told is that that probably means these will go back
Through the court system back to the lower courts and work their way up
But the supreme court justices will have to decide whether or not
These gerrymandering claims can even move forward
So that's a big question, but in short it doesn't mean there's it likely doesn't mean that there's going to be any new map
Before the 2026 election. There's just not enough time. Okay and lightning around here. You had a
Case you covered on voter rolls what happened there?
So the federal government the department of justice wants to get unredacted voter registration information
from wisconsin and
That includes you know drivers license numbers and social security numbers the last four digits
the elections commission hasn't
Provided that they've given a different list that's publicly available, but
Essentially the case was dismissed last month in federal court. It's being appealed. The doj is appealing it to the seventh circuit
but again
It it will take a while and there's been other examples of this around the nation where the doj has been losing these cases
One of those left to keep an eye on and then anya the false electors case in wisconsin. What happened there?
They pleaded not guilty to 11 counts of felony forgery, including wisconsin's own jim troupas
He's also trying to get the case moved out of dane county circuit court and so that case continues to unfold
All right. Thank you both for keeping an eye on those. That's all the time we have for today
Thanks for joining us. Our colleagues act shelves will be back in a few weeks
This has been inside wisconsin politics. Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org wpr.org youtube or wherever you get your podcasts
I think