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You

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Democrats running for governor have less than two months to stand out in a crowded field

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How'd they do that at the state party convention and we run through developments and lawsuits involving voter rolls

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Legislative maps and false electors. This is inside Wisconsin politics

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I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wente. Let's try that again Anya

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I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wente. Donk and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey gang

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Hey, Sean

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So I think it's fair to say Anya that this campaign this primary campaign will not be won or lost by what was said in the

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Room at the Democratic State Convention

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But I still think these are interesting because you have all seven candidates there

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They're under the same set of rules in terms of how long they can speak the same audience

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Okay

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Mmm, what is the end of that question? I just ramble like that perfect 17 and a half minutes. Am I supposed to not say hey, Sean?

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I think you can let it I would yield to the control room if they have but I think it

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I think there was you could just not as well just the nod. That's what that meant. Okay. I wasn't sure

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Mm-hmm

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I mean honestly we could just do it that way forever as far as I'm concerned the question is what was what was it like?

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Democrats running for governor have less than two months to stand out in a crowded field

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How'd they do that at the state party convention and we run through developments in lawsuits involving voter rolls legislative maps and fall selectors

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This is inside Wisconsin politics

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I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya Van Wechtendank and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey gang

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So I think it's fair to say that this primary campaign is not going to be won or lost

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Based on what happened in the room at the state party convention over the weekend

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But you did head of all seven candidates there. They were under the same set of rules speaking to the same group of Democratic activists

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What was it like?

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Yeah, you know, I say this with all due respect

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Normal people do not attend state party conventions, right?

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These are like the most die-hard Democrats the most I heard Republicans who go to that convention

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And so these are the people who are like the most energized about their party and are going to be the ones to hopefully

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You know bring in their their fellow, but like less excited Democrats

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And so I think that was kind of the vibe of the speeches that you were getting from the gubernatorial candidates

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Which is that they were trying to appeal to this base, right?

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the most kind of committed Democrats possible and

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Also make the case not only that they should stand out in the seven-person primary going into August

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But that they all are also most sort of best position to beat Tom Tiffany in November

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And so those are kind of two different arguments that you need to be making the one that makes you most appealing to Democrats

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And then the one that makes you most appealing to kind of your average

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Wisconsinite and a lot of there was a lot of kind of threading of that needle while also trying to get excitement

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So it was it was definitely a little bit of a dance going on

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But that I think was kind of the the overarching theme

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what what common threads should out to you. I mean like what was a

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A theme that stood out in all the speeches or at least most of them

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Yeah, so kind of to so the Tom Tiffany theme and also by extension Donald Trump

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Right a lot of time trying to tie the two of those together

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But then affordability was kind of the the word of the day the theme of the convention was

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Reclaiming the American dream and and each of the candidates talked in

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Either broader or more specific terms sort of depending on the candidate about what they would do to basically put more money in people's pockets

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Lower prices make things more affordable in Wisconsin. All right, so rich you and I were not at this convention

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Although we had a chance to listen to these speeches later. What's said out to you?

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Well

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On you already mentioned it. There was a lot of talk about Donald Trump and the chaos in Washington from his administration

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That's according to these Democratic candidates and it's pretty obvious why they would focus on the president and his you know

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Popularity rating is pretty low in polling. So it seems like there's they're hoping that

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Trump will be a liability for Tom Tiffany as they as they move forward in this campaign and also they're there

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There's only one Republican in the race. So they're able to focus their attacks on one person

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Meanwhile, you know Tom Tiffany doesn't have to worry about trying to stand out among Republican

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Competitors in his primary or in a primary. So that's what stuck out

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But there was some other things that stood out in terms of like the closest thing to

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criticizing other Democrats seemed to come from state senator Kilda Roy's and

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She just basically said the party cannot afford to

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to pick a nominee that

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Would put a Democratic trifecta that is the state Senate state assembly and the governor's office in jeopardy

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so no names were named but

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people might be able to infer who or how many you know people she might have been talking about and

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Of course, there was a number of like pretty bold promises from some of these candidates as well. Yeah

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That that did that criticism did jump out to me. There was another one

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I think you could argue from Francesca Hong saying that yes, you go out on the campaign trail people can

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Detect BS. We're not gonna say the word because family show here guys, but she was

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essentially without naming names saying

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The other candidates aren't as authentic as me is the way that I heard it

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I'll tell you one other thing that kind of stood out to me and just upon first review of the speeches

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I want a way to think in these these felt like general election speeches a little bit

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I mean, this is a primary where they're almost gonna have to some of them

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I'm gonna have to get negative if they want to climb the ladder and be the party's candidate and

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You know even the the you know criticisms. We just mentioned rich weren't exactly

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Super negative and the message is I could absolutely imagine them in a general election campaign against Tom Tiffany

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But they are on you. They're trying to win this democratic primary

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Among a smaller group of voters right now, right?

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But it is this balancing act where as Rich said, right?

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They are going for a trifecta and that was another big theme of the weekend

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It's this idea that Democrats really think that they could take over all three chambers of government

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And so they need to try to distinguish themselves and most of them don't have that kind of you know statewide

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Visibility so they are still trying to get just like baseline name recognition

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Which is important for a primary but then also not do anything to harm other Democrats because you know

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If you have sort of a one-in-seven chance and I know that's not exactly how statistics work

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But something like that and so you don't move forward. You don't want to have weakened your party

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You don't want to be giving Tom Tiffany sort of free fodder for your opponent opponents

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And so I think that we will see a little bit more maybe of those veiled attacks

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but in a way that's more aimed at sort of

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Holding themselves up rather than necessarily going negative at this point because Tom Tiffany as as Rich mentioned

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Is sort of in a field by himself?

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He technically has an opponent but more or less

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He's the presumptive nominee and so he's not going to get weakened in a primary

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So they need to be very careful themselves

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It can't work against you in a primary particularly a democratic primary to go negative where you have voters who have kind of that same

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Idea that like look the goal is November

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Stop fighting and show us how you're different

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Rich anything that jump out to you there and what Ani was just mentioning

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Well, I wanted to to kind of go back to when when she mentioned

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The you know the slides and the the the electability and all that stuff one of the candidates

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You know early on even before he announced Mandela Barnes former lieutenant governor former state representative

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He during his speech

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He he or let me go back

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Well before he got in the race some Democrats were publicly saying well, he lost in 2022

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You know, we don't need that again, but during his speech and he brought that up and he said well

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That's why I'm more experienced. I've been through this came within a one-point

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Percentage point of Ron Johnson in 2022. That's why I have the experience that and the other

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Resume stuff that he's got so I just wanted to mention that yeah

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There was a lot of conversation about electability

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Which again, I think speaks to trying to signal that they could beat Tom Tiffany in the fall

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And so you had for example Fran Hong pointed to the fact that she's if not the most far left

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candidate certainly among them and the fact that some people have have brought that up as a liability against her as

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passionate as her supporters are her opponents are sort of equally passionate and she talked about well actually

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I am part of a legacy of

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Wisconsin progressives who were elected

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So rather than that being a liability for me that actually makes me more electable because people are excited about someone who doesn't bring BS

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And and David Crowley as well. He pointed to the fact that there has never been a

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Black candidate who is one statewide office and he says that everywhere he goes

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People ask him can a black man become governor in Wisconsin?

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And he said well

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I can for the following reasons and so he named that sort of elephant in the room as a way of also drawing attention to his record

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And so again, just kind of the way that the candidates are trying to distinguish themselves

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Not just on their own terms, but also for what they can deliver in November

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And there was a straw poll at this convention on you and I feel like you know

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It's it's kind of fun to talk about what but we should say a thousand grains of salt here for this poll because this is not a scientific

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Poll the margin of error would be look. I'm not qualified to calculate it very high

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Franklin would have a lot to say about it

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You'd say don't pay attention to straw polls would be my guess

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But you had all these Democrats in a room and if they wanted to they could go to the booth run by WIS politics

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which does these at all the conventions and and you could vote for your candidate of choice among the primary field and

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How did that resolve? Yeah, really interesting lieutenant governor Sarah Rodriguez came out first and again

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If Fran Hong is sort of further to the left

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She's a little bit further to the center, but then Fran Hong was number two

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And so you kind of have a little bit of the polls of what the party is presenting right now

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One who might be doing better in a in a primary race again, given just sort of the excitement. That's around her

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That's Fran Hong and then one who perhaps could appeal to a broader audience that is

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Sarah Rodriguez who comes from a more of a business background. She was a health care executive and a nurse

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She won she flipped a Republican seat when she ran for the assembly in the Waukesha in the Waukesha suburbs

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And so you had these two different models and it kind of looked like Democrats a little bit split among them

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So I want to throw some caution at the poll here that the straw poll

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Which is looking back at the 2018 straw poll when you had even more candidates running for governor kind of depending on when you mentioned them

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You probably have are aware of this by now or have heard it or seen it recently

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But that year Kaldor Royce won the straw poll

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She went on to finish third in the primary a distant third, but she wanted overwhelmingly at convention

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Do you happen to know where Tony Evers placed in that straw poll?

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This is the beginning of our quiz section here guys, so Tony Evers placed third

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He had he had 91 votes compared to Kaldor was 184 that year

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Right behind him were Andy

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Gronic and Dana walks

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They have something in common they both dropped out of the race by the end of June that year

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So the the convention was in June 2nd

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I think and they were dropped out by the 21st and 22nd so right so again appealing to quote-unquote normal people versus appealing to the most kind of

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Revved up Democrats who follow every kind of twist and turn about that

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So it doesn't necessarily translate to what a general voter or general audience is interested in sure and there's also a certain amount of

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Campaigning you can do in the room at these things. You can say hey

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Get over to that desk that's run by with politics, and I think you should really vote for us and bring your people

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Bring your people absolutely, and I'm sure some of that went on at this convention

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So okay, okay

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I did want to play a little game with with you two since we have you here. Would that be okay?

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All right sure ready you have no choice right? We're recording a live show here, so

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I was just looking back through these speeches and through the benefit of

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being able to

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Look at the transcript a number of times that certain words were mentioned and these things

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You can see kind of who hit themes really hard

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So the first one I look for was Trump who said Trump the most anybody want a hazard a guess

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rich you go first

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I'm gonna say

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Rodriguez

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Might have been Joel Brennan. All right. All right rich

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You win buddy you got it's erud regas and Mandela Barnes were right up at the top there mentioned him six times Joel Brennan

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after them and then everybody mentioned Trump at least once but

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Rodriguez and Barnes kind of hitting to my year similar themes in those messages too like they sounded like maybe they were

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running a little bit of a November campaign or a

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Safer message in their speeches. Okay. How about

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Tiffany and that to be clear. Nobody mentioned the Truman Capote book that was adapted into a movie and later

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You know celebrated in a song who mentioned Tiffany Tom Tiffany the most

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Gosh, I'm just stuck on that dad joke now, I was I'm proud of that

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That song by the way in my head all the time and I hated it when I came out

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But the beauty of nostalgia

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I'm gonna vote Roy's. Well if for this there you go. There you go. There you go. That is not

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We got you

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Kilda Roy's how about you who mentioned Tiffany the most?

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Mr. Hughes all right good good guesses everybody Sarah Rodriguez was tops and Tiffany mentions

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Followed by Joel Brennan Mandela Barnes and Kilda Roy's mentioned and once David Crowley Missy Hughes and Francesca Hong didn't even mention

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Tom Tiffany

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No, I mean, I think it's it's the kind of thing you assume that you heard a bunch of people say and then you go back and look and realize

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Well, they didn't actually mention that specific guy. I have I predict whoever wins this primary though

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We'll mention him a lot in TV as between now and November

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Okay, how about this?

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We've got a we've got a Democratic governor right now and a lot of these people have worked with or for this Democratic governor

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Who do you think might have mentioned Evers a few times rich? What do you think?

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Well, I would say it have to be someone that worked within the administration or alongside him

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So that narrows it down to

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For people I would say Brennan. Yeah, okay. I'm on you. I think it was also Brennan

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He also made a point of saying fix the darn roads. He said to be really time

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Yeah, it was Mandela Barnes Tony Evers former lieutenant governor followed by Joel Brennan his former Deois secretary followed by

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Sarah Rodriguez's current lieutenant governor and Missy Hughes his former

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We'd a CEO no mention of Tony Evers by Francesca Hong killed Royce or David Crowley, so

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Tony Evers back there taking notes like I see you I see you okay one more one more I promise

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And this is a little different you got a chance at this convention to differentiate yourself one way you can just tell these delegates

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I'm different

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Who said?

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Only candidate as in I'm I'm the only candidate. Oh, I know this one. Okay. Let's hear Fran Hong said

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I am the only candidate who proposes a moratorium on data centers and free childcare and

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You are correct on you. She mentioned it four times. This was interesting to me rich

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Kilda Royce was there. She mentioned it a couple times

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Her message was I'm the only candidate who's been a legislator

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I got I got bills it was basically what she was saying and then David Crowley the only candidate who has executive experience and nobody else used that turn a phrase

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A big grain of salt for that one too, which is very unscientific, but I find it fun to run through that stuff

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Unscientific, but you've probably made a spreadsheet. I did make a spreadsheet. You're doing right. Yeah

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Made a lot easier for me to list those things real quick

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So we want to move on real quick to some legal developments this week a

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Few small legal developments in big cases rich first. Let's start with there was this

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decision by the state Supreme Court to hear an appeal in a redistricting case congressional redistricting case

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Is this a big deal or an incremental step?

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It's pretty incremental

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So these are about the congressional maps

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There's two of them that have been two of these appeals of these cases challenging the congressional map

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as gerrymandered for various reasons jerry various types of gerrymandering and

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It sounds exciting that it's made it to the supreme court, but all they're doing in both situations is

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They will be deciding whether or not these three judge panels they appointed

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Were correct in how they dismissed these challenges and those panels essentially said

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They dismissed them because they don't have the authority to overturn the maps which were

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Put in place by the supreme court and a lower court cannot overrule a higher court like that

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so

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What i've been told is that that probably means these will go back

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Through the court system back to the lower courts and work their way up

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But the supreme court justices will have to decide whether or not

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These gerrymandering claims can even move forward

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So that's a big question, but in short it doesn't mean there's it likely doesn't mean that there's going to be any new map

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Before the 2026 election. There's just not enough time. Okay and lightning around here. You had a

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Case you covered on voter rolls what happened there?

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So the federal government the department of justice wants to get unredacted voter registration information

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from wisconsin and

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That includes you know drivers license numbers and social security numbers the last four digits

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the elections commission hasn't

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Provided that they've given a different list that's publicly available, but

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Essentially the case was dismissed last month in federal court. It's being appealed. The doj is appealing it to the seventh circuit

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but again

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It it will take a while and there's been other examples of this around the nation where the doj has been losing these cases

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One of those left to keep an eye on and then anya the false electors case in wisconsin. What happened there?

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They pleaded not guilty to 11 counts of felony forgery, including wisconsin's own jim troupas

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He's also trying to get the case moved out of dane county circuit court and so that case continues to unfold

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All right. Thank you both for keeping an eye on those. That's all the time we have for today

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Thanks for joining us. Our colleagues act shelves will be back in a few weeks

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This has been inside wisconsin politics. Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org wpr.org youtube or wherever you get your podcasts

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I think