You
Chris Taylor wins by a landslide in this week's Supreme Court race locking down a liberal majority for years
How did it happen and what could it mean?
Plus the universities of Wisconsin Board of Regents fires the system president and Republicans don't like it
This is inside Wisconsin politics
I'm Sean Johnson here with my colleagues Zach Schultz on you've been wacked and donk and rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey everyone
So we've kind of gotten used to these big
Liberal blowouts we'd use the term in these April elections. They have figured out how to win these races
It seems like Chris Taylor though took that to a new level with her race this time
Anya, what's I guess stuck out to you about this massive win by Chris Taylor?
Yeah, I mean
I think we're also used to talking about Wisconsin and so purple and elections are frequently decided by less than a percentage point
And then we've had these spring elections that are determined by closer to ten points
But this time it was 20 points and so that is such a significantly larger gulf
So we kind of saw you know some of the tea leaves leading into the race
Less spending sort of less excitement across the board the stakes were different
But Zach and I were chatting on election night
We were waiting around at Chris Taylor's what turned into her victory party and we were saying, you know
This will be an interesting experiment to see with the sort of polls punches the pulled financial punches
What kind of margin will we see and then it turned out to be the largest margin?
I've ever seen and from what I understand in decades in Wisconsin races
Yeah, a 20-point margin as opposed to the usual, you know quote-unquote ten in these races Zach
How about you? What stood out?
Well just to add on to that earlier that afternoon
I met up with Chris Taylor on the UW campus and one of the questions I asked her was
Are you worried because the lack of investment from the Democratic Party of Wisconsin which in past elections has
Sent millions of dollars to their preferred candidates or from outside interest groups who really spent nothing that you're leaving possible voters
At the door who may not be aware they need to get out and vote and she said no
I don't think so and she was absolutely right and I think what this showed was that both sides knew where this election was going early on and
Decided we're gonna save our money for the fall
There's enough to spend it on there between some very tight assembly races
Obviously the governor's race and even some competitive Senate races that may not be fully decided that may determine the margin for either party in that chamber
That I think they all kind of walked away from this to the point where when you saw Lazar at her party
You got the sense that this was not a surprise to her. She wasn't shocked
Maybe at the final margin, but even hearing from Republican voters afterwards. There were a lot of them saying
Well, why weren't we trying harder?
And I think that was the main takeaway is that everyone had an expectation that this was gonna be the result rich as we
Said here today. What kind of stands out to you about this race?
Well kind of jumping off what Zack just said
There was a sense that the Republican Party of Wisconsin really wasn't trying very hard in this race
You know, they're not in partisan races, but also they're not in a lot of ways. So
the the level of
fundraising and money coming from the state party or third party groups aligned with conservatives just never materialized and
You've seen a lot of conservative people on social media saying
What are you doing Republican Party?
You know, there was a lot of anger about that, but also people didn't really love the way that Lazar was campaigning
They wanted some more
Aggression out of her some more of a shimmel type. So he's the conservative that ran last year much more political
generally
than Lazar she stuck to the
experience kind of mantra and
So it did seem like
You know, all the money was lower in this race than it was in the past
But really Republicans kind of stood down in a way rich
We were kind of trading messages throughout the night as you were at that Maria Lazar
campaign election party
It strikes me that this was not a joyous affair. Can you kind of talk us through what it was like to be at this hotel in Piwaki?
Yeah, it was
It was I mean, it was there was no celebration in fact there was no people
Generally when I show up to these things we get there early and then you know
You set up, but there's already people milling around for much of the night before the race was called
there were more reporters in the room than there were supporters and
That is just something that that and you kind of get a sense that well
They kind of know this is a foregone conclusion
But even I was still surprised when the race was called less than 40 minutes after the polls closed. I mean that that's
Surprising so the mood was rough
Lazar didn't come out and speak until after 9 p.m. She said that she feels that she ran this race with purpose
There was still a reason for it
She said that she thinks that her message that partisanship should get out of these
Judicial races kind of resonated and that with candidate after candidate in the future sticking to that message
Maybe things will change
whether that
Squares with reality. I'm not sure seems like the results might send the opposite message there in terms of what future candidates will take from it
As you look at where the votes came in here
I know we should take them with a huge grain of salt because we do not have 20 point
elections in Wisconsin
That said they are a snapshot in time at this moment
Anything stick out to any view about where the votes came in or how they came in
I mean, I think that the grain of salt is actually kind of part of the story right
There was a lot of trying to claim victory and really cast us forward from Democrats
Forward into November for what this means, especially because Chris Taylor performed so well in so-called Trump counties and up north and things like this
But that's in part because
Liberals have the advantage in these spring elections
That's been true for the last couple of years
That was true in the sort of post-mortem that Republicans put together about their own poor performance last spring
That the nature of the electorate that comes out in an awful election in the spring time
without Donald Trump at the top of the ballot is a really different electorate that comes out in a
November election and so I think
Overreading the results of this would be a problem for Democrats
Yeah, I think the the extension of that is that we're not going to see the same environment in the fall
Republicans won't be outspent eight to one
Republicans won't be pulling their punches and not trying to campaign through the end and nothing to diminish the campaign that Maria Lazar
Ran but she ran it without any of the outside support that is necessary in this modern environment for a Supreme Court candidate
To be successful. She simply didn't have the party infrastructure that is now relied upon if you want to win the statewide campaign
That is a completely different game than what we're going to see this fall and yes
I think Democrats were sending out statements trying to fire up their own supporters
But I saw this game a couple years ago in
2023 when Janet Protasey was won
I was in Ozaki County the next year and Ozaki County Dems were telling me
Oh, we were in the mid 40s and Ozaki County for Janet
We're gonna win for fall of 24 Kamala Harris is gonna win Ozaki
Can she got blown out like things revert back to the norm when you get to the bigger elections where more attention is paid and
Due to voter realignment like you were just talking about on you
We're going to see more people that don't pay attention these elections vote in the fall not at the same levels
We wouldn't in a presidential year, but turnout will be significantly higher right now with realignment
Democrats do better in lower turnout events when they can consistently get their voters to the polls and
Republicans aren't so a lot of it will depend on the atmosphere this fall and how
Demoralized Republicans may be yeah, I would be surprised
You know frankly if Republicans were able to win Ozaki County in November
This is the oh in the Wow counties the vaunted Wow counties that were the foundation of Republican power in this state for years
But I have to say Chris Taylor one was ocky County and that is something that even in these other big Supreme Court elections
The liberal candidate has not yet won Ozaki County
She also got 84 percent in Dane County and yeah sure Democrats win Dane County. No surprise
She's from there
84 percent is unheard of and when it is the leading vote getting county in the state as Dane County is in these races
That's a big deal
Well, and she did much better in her home County of Dane County than Maria Lazar did in her home County of Waukesha County
And Waukesha County is also one of these that has started sort of moving away from being as
Die hard-read it's still deep red
But that is also a sort of suburban district that we've been paying attention to as some of those shifts have taken place far more
People than Ozaki too. So a big vote getter rich. How about you?
Yeah, I just wanted to go back to the discussion of you know, you've got the Wow counties not as as deep red
But Northern Wisconsin, so it is true that that
I've seen some conservatives say well, that's the new Wow counties essentially, you know a strip of counties from like
the eastern side of the northeastern part of the state to the Polk County on the west and
That might be true, but the population just isn't there
So, you know that sort of an area even if it goes hard for Republicans in the fall a Dane County kind of turnout like we saw
Could erase that pretty quickly. So
That that was a really interesting
Thing to see Republicans say well, this is where we need to focus up north
So we have this thing that we do in Wisconsin at least I can't resist it
We had an election and we have to talk about what's gonna what's it mean for the next election?
And I know the 2026 election is way different, but what does it mean?
I mean are there lessons that either party would look at these and say
Well, that's that's troubling for us, you know if you're Republicans or if you're Democrats
Little of that exuberance say what you were talking about. Is there anything kind of real in there?
Well, just today before we came on here
We saw two more assembly Republicans announced they were not gonna seek reelection now in and of itself that doesn't mean anything
But trends matter
We've seen a lot more Republicans decide they don't want to run and we've seen that in the Senate where it is a pretty good
Odds-on chance that Democrats will flip that chamber and the assemblies 50 50
It sucks to be in the minority and we've seen that in both the legislature and on the Supreme Court where we had now two consecutive
Conservative incumbent justices who were well within the normal age range to seek another 10-year term decide
I don't want to be in the minority on this court
I'd rather go somewhere else
So I think those patterns tell you a lot more than what any of the press release as well including a net ziggler who would have been up for
election in
2027 and somebody who at least in 2007 showed that she knew how to win these races
How about 2027? What does this mean for the next state Supreme Court race? You know who wants to go there?
I mean, it's interesting right sort of gaming out the next couple
We talked last week about how nobody was talking about this court election as the most important in a generation or whatever
And then enter Ben Wickler the former chair of the Democratic Party
He sent out this email day of and he was explaining why he thought for Democrats and liberals
It was actually hugely important because essentially this guarantees liberal control
past the point of the census and so into the next redistricting cycle everything comes back to redistricting as act likes to say
And so with the next with the 2027 with 28 and a swing
swing justice potentially coming up
Maybe we'll see primaries in the races again like in some ways this opens the door for some very strange
Maneuverings as liberals and Democrats get to kind of take for granted that they have this court rich
I
I'm gonna be watching to see if
Republicans or conservatives even run a candidate, you know that the inverse of that happened when
The GOP was running the table on these elections and there's been a few you know talk radio people
Wondering like who would want to run?
for a seat in the minority of the Supreme Court after
someone just got
clobbered by 20 points, so I
Obviously can't predict the future, but that seems like it would be a pretty bitter pill to swallow
So it will be interesting to see
who runs for
Liberals and for conservatives or if they just sit this one out. Yeah, I mean Sean your turn
Don't get out of this. I mean I've been thinking about how long this could go really in terms of how long this
Majority could be in place because yes, we have said accurately the conservatives could flip it back in
2030, but you know how much has to go right for them for that to happen
They have to win next year when there's an open seat and we see what the environment is now
They have to win in 28 28 when Rebecca Dalot's up and she knows how to run these races
2029 is Brian Haggadorn who may face a challenge from the right and then if all that goes right then you get to 2030 and
Presumably take on Jill Kroski another double-digit winner in her race
If any of those things does not go their way the clock gets set back three years
So this really just sort of opened up a chance for liberals to look at the court with a long view
And I think we're kind of looking for clues on how they might view that now that this
5-2 majority is the sort of new reality we know about Judge Chris Taylor the candidate for Supreme Court
She gave us some hints on election night about how she views the law
Here's Justice elect Chris Taylor
The law can be a tool to lift people up to improve their lives to strengthen our communities and that's
exciting that drove me to law school and
I've spent now
30 my 30-year legal career as a lawyer in private practice. It's a law and policy director for Planned Parenthood
And so you know in candidates for the court get up and give that speech on election night
They have a choice they can make they can kind of withdraw from the campaign messages and thank their supporters and say it's time to move on
In this case, I think you heard Chris Taylor saying hey, you know all that stuff
I said on the campaign trail that's still me. This is who I am
So knowing that knowing the court that she is stepping into what might this court take up? I
Mean so one of the things that could be on the agenda is a challenge to act 10
And I thought that was really interesting
You know I did a profile of Chris Taylor and she talked about on the on the trail on her stump speech
She talked about how like the events of 2011 is part of what motivated her to run for the legislature
Which is part of where she spent her career
Meaning at 10 meaning the protests against Scott Walker
And so it'll be really interesting to kind of see the tale of those events and how those reshaped politics
Maybe it potentially come before this court
Rich any issues that you think could be there?
I mean obviously
There's a ton of issues, but one thing that has been interesting to watch is the liberal majority kind of dismantling
Republicans
The power that they had built up for themselves when they had you know, they still do but during the Walker years
and this has been through kind of
Clipping the wings a little bit of these various legislative committees that can
delay new rules for agencies or they could
indefinitely and
You know, we've seen that sort of stuff get struck down
So I guess I'd be more interested to see if there's gonna be other cases challenging the legislature's authority to be able to stop
You know things that Democrats want to see happen
We we're gonna run out of time here if we don't keep moving. I think, you know use your imagination
Big issues could come before the court. Let's talk about
another person in the news this week who lost their job the
UW Board of Regents unanimously fired the system president J. Rothman
What do we know about why at this point?
Not much, right? We know that they were displeased that he serves at the pleasure of the board
These are appointees of governor Evers Rothman came in kind of as a
Whisperer for Republicans when Republicans control the legislature and the UW needed someone to negotiate between
Both parties especially when the UW is getting trampled in the budget constantly and it may signal this idea that we don't need
Someone like that anymore that they expect Democrats to be in power next year when there's a new budget and
Rothman services
It's time for him to move on they're hoping to do it quietly
But it didn't end up that way it didn't and Republicans who control the legislature are not only protesting
They are using the power that they have potentially in the state Senate. It sounds like to
Kind of strike back in a way. Yeah
That is one of the powers that they've had throughout the Evers administration is to push back against his appointments
And they could do that here to send a message again
We are kind of looking towards in November where we don't know who's going to end up in the governor's seat
And so therefore we don't know who's going to end up in charge of the Board of Regents
And so I think we're gonna see some of this power grabbing right now in order to kind of set the stage for
Control of UW rich. We don't have much time, but animosity between the legislature and the University who to thunk it
Yeah, it's a bit of a pattern. Let's put it that way. So when Rothman was hired
Assembly speaker Robin Voss said hey, that's great, you know business leader
That's what they were looking for we had former governor Tommy Thompson another Republican run the system before Rothman and
The Republicans in the legislature still didn't give him very much in terms of budget requests
So now we're gonna have to wait and see if the Senate follows through on this at a time when they're not in session
They got other stuff going on. It's kind of their move at this point
That's all the time we have for today. Thanks for joining us for this week's inside Wisconsin politics
Be sure to follow us on PBS Wisconsin at org wpr.org YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts