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Chris Taylor wins by a landslide in this week's Supreme Court race locking down a liberal majority for years

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How did it happen and what could it mean?

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Plus the universities of Wisconsin Board of Regents fires the system president and Republicans don't like it

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This is inside Wisconsin politics

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I'm Sean Johnson here with my colleagues Zach Schultz on you've been wacked and donk and rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey everyone

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So we've kind of gotten used to these big

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Liberal blowouts we'd use the term in these April elections. They have figured out how to win these races

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It seems like Chris Taylor though took that to a new level with her race this time

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Anya, what's I guess stuck out to you about this massive win by Chris Taylor?

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Yeah, I mean

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I think we're also used to talking about Wisconsin and so purple and elections are frequently decided by less than a percentage point

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And then we've had these spring elections that are determined by closer to ten points

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But this time it was 20 points and so that is such a significantly larger gulf

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So we kind of saw you know some of the tea leaves leading into the race

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Less spending sort of less excitement across the board the stakes were different

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But Zach and I were chatting on election night

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We were waiting around at Chris Taylor's what turned into her victory party and we were saying, you know

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This will be an interesting experiment to see with the sort of polls punches the pulled financial punches

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What kind of margin will we see and then it turned out to be the largest margin?

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I've ever seen and from what I understand in decades in Wisconsin races

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Yeah, a 20-point margin as opposed to the usual, you know quote-unquote ten in these races Zach

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How about you? What stood out?

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Well just to add on to that earlier that afternoon

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I met up with Chris Taylor on the UW campus and one of the questions I asked her was

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Are you worried because the lack of investment from the Democratic Party of Wisconsin which in past elections has

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Sent millions of dollars to their preferred candidates or from outside interest groups who really spent nothing that you're leaving possible voters

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At the door who may not be aware they need to get out and vote and she said no

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I don't think so and she was absolutely right and I think what this showed was that both sides knew where this election was going early on and

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Decided we're gonna save our money for the fall

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There's enough to spend it on there between some very tight assembly races

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Obviously the governor's race and even some competitive Senate races that may not be fully decided that may determine the margin for either party in that chamber

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That I think they all kind of walked away from this to the point where when you saw Lazar at her party

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You got the sense that this was not a surprise to her. She wasn't shocked

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Maybe at the final margin, but even hearing from Republican voters afterwards. There were a lot of them saying

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Well, why weren't we trying harder?

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And I think that was the main takeaway is that everyone had an expectation that this was gonna be the result rich as we

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Said here today. What kind of stands out to you about this race?

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Well kind of jumping off what Zack just said

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There was a sense that the Republican Party of Wisconsin really wasn't trying very hard in this race

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You know, they're not in partisan races, but also they're not in a lot of ways. So

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the the level of

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fundraising and money coming from the state party or third party groups aligned with conservatives just never materialized and

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You've seen a lot of conservative people on social media saying

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What are you doing Republican Party?

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You know, there was a lot of anger about that, but also people didn't really love the way that Lazar was campaigning

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They wanted some more

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Aggression out of her some more of a shimmel type. So he's the conservative that ran last year much more political

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generally

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than Lazar she stuck to the

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experience kind of mantra and

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So it did seem like

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You know, all the money was lower in this race than it was in the past

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But really Republicans kind of stood down in a way rich

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We were kind of trading messages throughout the night as you were at that Maria Lazar

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campaign election party

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It strikes me that this was not a joyous affair. Can you kind of talk us through what it was like to be at this hotel in Piwaki?

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Yeah, it was

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It was I mean, it was there was no celebration in fact there was no people

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Generally when I show up to these things we get there early and then you know

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You set up, but there's already people milling around for much of the night before the race was called

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there were more reporters in the room than there were supporters and

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That is just something that that and you kind of get a sense that well

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They kind of know this is a foregone conclusion

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But even I was still surprised when the race was called less than 40 minutes after the polls closed. I mean that that's

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Surprising so the mood was rough

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Lazar didn't come out and speak until after 9 p.m. She said that she feels that she ran this race with purpose

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There was still a reason for it

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She said that she thinks that her message that partisanship should get out of these

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Judicial races kind of resonated and that with candidate after candidate in the future sticking to that message

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Maybe things will change

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whether that

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Squares with reality. I'm not sure seems like the results might send the opposite message there in terms of what future candidates will take from it

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As you look at where the votes came in here

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I know we should take them with a huge grain of salt because we do not have 20 point

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elections in Wisconsin

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That said they are a snapshot in time at this moment

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Anything stick out to any view about where the votes came in or how they came in

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I mean, I think that the grain of salt is actually kind of part of the story right

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There was a lot of trying to claim victory and really cast us forward from Democrats

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Forward into November for what this means, especially because Chris Taylor performed so well in so-called Trump counties and up north and things like this

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But that's in part because

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Liberals have the advantage in these spring elections

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That's been true for the last couple of years

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That was true in the sort of post-mortem that Republicans put together about their own poor performance last spring

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That the nature of the electorate that comes out in an awful election in the spring time

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without Donald Trump at the top of the ballot is a really different electorate that comes out in a

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November election and so I think

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Overreading the results of this would be a problem for Democrats

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Yeah, I think the the extension of that is that we're not going to see the same environment in the fall

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Republicans won't be outspent eight to one

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Republicans won't be pulling their punches and not trying to campaign through the end and nothing to diminish the campaign that Maria Lazar

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Ran but she ran it without any of the outside support that is necessary in this modern environment for a Supreme Court candidate

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To be successful. She simply didn't have the party infrastructure that is now relied upon if you want to win the statewide campaign

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That is a completely different game than what we're going to see this fall and yes

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I think Democrats were sending out statements trying to fire up their own supporters

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But I saw this game a couple years ago in

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2023 when Janet Protasey was won

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I was in Ozaki County the next year and Ozaki County Dems were telling me

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Oh, we were in the mid 40s and Ozaki County for Janet

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We're gonna win for fall of 24 Kamala Harris is gonna win Ozaki

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Can she got blown out like things revert back to the norm when you get to the bigger elections where more attention is paid and

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Due to voter realignment like you were just talking about on you

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We're going to see more people that don't pay attention these elections vote in the fall not at the same levels

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We wouldn't in a presidential year, but turnout will be significantly higher right now with realignment

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Democrats do better in lower turnout events when they can consistently get their voters to the polls and

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Republicans aren't so a lot of it will depend on the atmosphere this fall and how

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Demoralized Republicans may be yeah, I would be surprised

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You know frankly if Republicans were able to win Ozaki County in November

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This is the oh in the Wow counties the vaunted Wow counties that were the foundation of Republican power in this state for years

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But I have to say Chris Taylor one was ocky County and that is something that even in these other big Supreme Court elections

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The liberal candidate has not yet won Ozaki County

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She also got 84 percent in Dane County and yeah sure Democrats win Dane County. No surprise

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She's from there

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84 percent is unheard of and when it is the leading vote getting county in the state as Dane County is in these races

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That's a big deal

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Well, and she did much better in her home County of Dane County than Maria Lazar did in her home County of Waukesha County

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And Waukesha County is also one of these that has started sort of moving away from being as

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Die hard-read it's still deep red

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But that is also a sort of suburban district that we've been paying attention to as some of those shifts have taken place far more

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People than Ozaki too. So a big vote getter rich. How about you?

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Yeah, I just wanted to go back to the discussion of you know, you've got the Wow counties not as as deep red

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But Northern Wisconsin, so it is true that that

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I've seen some conservatives say well, that's the new Wow counties essentially, you know a strip of counties from like

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the eastern side of the northeastern part of the state to the Polk County on the west and

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That might be true, but the population just isn't there

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So, you know that sort of an area even if it goes hard for Republicans in the fall a Dane County kind of turnout like we saw

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Could erase that pretty quickly. So

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That that was a really interesting

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Thing to see Republicans say well, this is where we need to focus up north

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So we have this thing that we do in Wisconsin at least I can't resist it

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We had an election and we have to talk about what's gonna what's it mean for the next election?

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And I know the 2026 election is way different, but what does it mean?

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I mean are there lessons that either party would look at these and say

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Well, that's that's troubling for us, you know if you're Republicans or if you're Democrats

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Little of that exuberance say what you were talking about. Is there anything kind of real in there?

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Well, just today before we came on here

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We saw two more assembly Republicans announced they were not gonna seek reelection now in and of itself that doesn't mean anything

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But trends matter

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We've seen a lot more Republicans decide they don't want to run and we've seen that in the Senate where it is a pretty good

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Odds-on chance that Democrats will flip that chamber and the assemblies 50 50

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It sucks to be in the minority and we've seen that in both the legislature and on the Supreme Court where we had now two consecutive

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Conservative incumbent justices who were well within the normal age range to seek another 10-year term decide

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I don't want to be in the minority on this court

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I'd rather go somewhere else

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So I think those patterns tell you a lot more than what any of the press release as well including a net ziggler who would have been up for

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election in

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2027 and somebody who at least in 2007 showed that she knew how to win these races

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How about 2027? What does this mean for the next state Supreme Court race? You know who wants to go there?

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I mean, it's interesting right sort of gaming out the next couple

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We talked last week about how nobody was talking about this court election as the most important in a generation or whatever

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And then enter Ben Wickler the former chair of the Democratic Party

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He sent out this email day of and he was explaining why he thought for Democrats and liberals

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It was actually hugely important because essentially this guarantees liberal control

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past the point of the census and so into the next redistricting cycle everything comes back to redistricting as act likes to say

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And so with the next with the 2027 with 28 and a swing

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swing justice potentially coming up

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Maybe we'll see primaries in the races again like in some ways this opens the door for some very strange

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Maneuverings as liberals and Democrats get to kind of take for granted that they have this court rich

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I

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I'm gonna be watching to see if

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Republicans or conservatives even run a candidate, you know that the inverse of that happened when

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The GOP was running the table on these elections and there's been a few you know talk radio people

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Wondering like who would want to run?

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for a seat in the minority of the Supreme Court after

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someone just got

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clobbered by 20 points, so I

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Obviously can't predict the future, but that seems like it would be a pretty bitter pill to swallow

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So it will be interesting to see

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who runs for

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Liberals and for conservatives or if they just sit this one out. Yeah, I mean Sean your turn

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Don't get out of this. I mean I've been thinking about how long this could go really in terms of how long this

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Majority could be in place because yes, we have said accurately the conservatives could flip it back in

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2030, but you know how much has to go right for them for that to happen

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They have to win next year when there's an open seat and we see what the environment is now

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They have to win in 28 28 when Rebecca Dalot's up and she knows how to run these races

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2029 is Brian Haggadorn who may face a challenge from the right and then if all that goes right then you get to 2030 and

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Presumably take on Jill Kroski another double-digit winner in her race

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If any of those things does not go their way the clock gets set back three years

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So this really just sort of opened up a chance for liberals to look at the court with a long view

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And I think we're kind of looking for clues on how they might view that now that this

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5-2 majority is the sort of new reality we know about Judge Chris Taylor the candidate for Supreme Court

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She gave us some hints on election night about how she views the law

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Here's Justice elect Chris Taylor

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The law can be a tool to lift people up to improve their lives to strengthen our communities and that's

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exciting that drove me to law school and

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I've spent now

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30 my 30-year legal career as a lawyer in private practice. It's a law and policy director for Planned Parenthood

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And so you know in candidates for the court get up and give that speech on election night

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They have a choice they can make they can kind of withdraw from the campaign messages and thank their supporters and say it's time to move on

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In this case, I think you heard Chris Taylor saying hey, you know all that stuff

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I said on the campaign trail that's still me. This is who I am

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So knowing that knowing the court that she is stepping into what might this court take up? I

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Mean so one of the things that could be on the agenda is a challenge to act 10

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And I thought that was really interesting

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You know I did a profile of Chris Taylor and she talked about on the on the trail on her stump speech

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She talked about how like the events of 2011 is part of what motivated her to run for the legislature

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Which is part of where she spent her career

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Meaning at 10 meaning the protests against Scott Walker

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And so it'll be really interesting to kind of see the tale of those events and how those reshaped politics

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Maybe it potentially come before this court

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Rich any issues that you think could be there?

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I mean obviously

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There's a ton of issues, but one thing that has been interesting to watch is the liberal majority kind of dismantling

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Republicans

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The power that they had built up for themselves when they had you know, they still do but during the Walker years

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and this has been through kind of

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Clipping the wings a little bit of these various legislative committees that can

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delay new rules for agencies or they could

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indefinitely and

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You know, we've seen that sort of stuff get struck down

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So I guess I'd be more interested to see if there's gonna be other cases challenging the legislature's authority to be able to stop

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You know things that Democrats want to see happen

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We we're gonna run out of time here if we don't keep moving. I think, you know use your imagination

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Big issues could come before the court. Let's talk about

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another person in the news this week who lost their job the

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UW Board of Regents unanimously fired the system president J. Rothman

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What do we know about why at this point?

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Not much, right? We know that they were displeased that he serves at the pleasure of the board

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These are appointees of governor Evers Rothman came in kind of as a

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Whisperer for Republicans when Republicans control the legislature and the UW needed someone to negotiate between

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Both parties especially when the UW is getting trampled in the budget constantly and it may signal this idea that we don't need

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Someone like that anymore that they expect Democrats to be in power next year when there's a new budget and

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Rothman services

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It's time for him to move on they're hoping to do it quietly

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But it didn't end up that way it didn't and Republicans who control the legislature are not only protesting

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They are using the power that they have potentially in the state Senate. It sounds like to

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Kind of strike back in a way. Yeah

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That is one of the powers that they've had throughout the Evers administration is to push back against his appointments

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And they could do that here to send a message again

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We are kind of looking towards in November where we don't know who's going to end up in the governor's seat

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And so therefore we don't know who's going to end up in charge of the Board of Regents

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And so I think we're gonna see some of this power grabbing right now in order to kind of set the stage for

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Control of UW rich. We don't have much time, but animosity between the legislature and the University who to thunk it

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Yeah, it's a bit of a pattern. Let's put it that way. So when Rothman was hired

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Assembly speaker Robin Voss said hey, that's great, you know business leader

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That's what they were looking for we had former governor Tommy Thompson another Republican run the system before Rothman and

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The Republicans in the legislature still didn't give him very much in terms of budget requests

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So now we're gonna have to wait and see if the Senate follows through on this at a time when they're not in session

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They got other stuff going on. It's kind of their move at this point

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That's all the time we have for today. Thanks for joining us for this week's inside Wisconsin politics

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Be sure to follow us on PBS Wisconsin at org wpr.org YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts