It seemed like the whole world was
watching Wisconsin and its Supreme
Court election this past Tuesday.
How does the victory for liberal
judge Susan Crawford inform
the political direction more broadly
going forward?
We check in with Chair of the
Democratic Party of Wisconsin, Ben
Wickler, and thanks very much for
being here.
Thanks for having me, Frederica.
So were you expecting a
10-point lead for Susan Crawford?
I was not.
You know, the Republicans, Elon
Musk, the whole kind of right-wing
machine poured more money into this
race than we've ever seen in any
judicial election in American
history.
And it seemed hard to believe they
didn't have a theory behind it.
As it turned out, they did drive up
their turnout. They won enough votes
to defeat Janet Protasewicz in
2023.
They hit their target.
It's just that the number
of votes for Susan Crawford was so
much more This was a combination
of an amazing candidate with a
superb campaign and full support
from the party and all the different
allied groups.
Also, Elon Musk personally inserting
himself in a way that I think
incited more people to vote against
Brad Schiml than for Brad Schimmel.
And then on top of all that, there's
a rage in the electorate right now
about what's happening to this
country. The sense that our
constitution's being ripped to
shreds, that social security's under
attack, things that should be
politically off limits are being.
torn to pieces by Elon Musk,
Donald Trump, and the Republicans,
and I think that expressed itself in
a margin of victory that not
only says something about this race
and people's preference for
the integrity of Susan Crawford over
what they saw in Brad Shimmel, but
also the direction of politics in
this whole national moment.
When you saw Elon Musk in Green
Bay up on stage with a
cheese head, what was going through
your head?
First of all, I thought, that's not
your cheesehead, buddy.
Secondly, it felt to me
like Wisconsin can't fall for
this. Surely it can't for this, this
is the richest man in the world who
is pulling money out of
the pockets of people all over our
state. They just fired everyone
involved in the low income home
heating program.
These are programs that help people
stay warm in the winter in Wisconsin
that they're dismantling to
fund extra tax cuts for people like
Elon Musk.
So that's happening with one hand,
the other hand is holding a
million-dollar novelty check.
It was such a transparent attempt to
buy our election and our democracy
in order to enrich the already
ultra-wealthy at the expense of
working people that it felt like I
hoped with all my being that it
would backfire.
As it turned out, it backfired big
time.
How do Democrats intend
to trade on the Trump agenda
going forward?
Well, unfortunately...
There's a huge amount to run
against, and Democrats can
simply say what we're for.
We believe in a country that works
for working people, not just for the
ultra wealthy. We believe every
person should have basic freedoms
and dignity and respect.
And that creates a gigantic contrast
with an administration that seems
intent on torpedoing the
entire economy and then
carving out chunks of special favors
for the wealthy friends
of the president, as though he's a
mob boss dividing up the spoils.
This is a totally catastrophic
administration that seems to be
intent on steering us into a
recession.
And all the Republicans in Congress
and in the Senate, they seem to
chicken about mean tweets from
Trump and Elon Musk or maybe primary
challenges to do anything about it.
So there's going to be a wave.
You can already feel it building.
You could see the first cresting
of that wave in Wisconsin on
Tuesday. But I think it's going
sweep this whole country for these
next two years and probably the next
four years because they're
so, so bad
at this right now.
And Democrats actually believe
in making government work for
people.
What kind of advice do you have for
Democrats nationally to replicate
what happened in Wisconsin this
week?
Well, first, what Susan Crawford did
I think is really a model.
She was crystal clear at every stop.
She would say, I never dreamed as a
little girl growing up in Chippewa
Falls that I'd be up against the
richest man in the world.
She made the case about her
integrity by telling her life story,
about growing up with a sibling with
special needs who she took care of,
a protective instinct, her work as a
prosecutor, and then working
in state government, then in private
practice defending Planned
Parenthood, which drew a contrast on
abortion, which is still very
powerful issue in our state, I think
a lot of states.
And then, as a judge,
how she treated everyone equally who
walked into our courtroom.
And then the contrast was
corruption.
So it wasn't just that Brad Chambl
was very far right-wing and
supported the abortion ban, it was
also the corruption of giving
special favors to his campaign
contributors.
And Elon Musk and Trump are kind of
guaranteeing that every Republican
in Washington gets caught in that
swirl of corruption right now.
The message about who's
serving the ultra rich and who's
serve regular folks, that ties into
a question of character.
And I think for Democrats, being
clear about their character, about
their values, about who they're
gonna work for and fight for, And
then drawing a clear contrast with
the other side not wavering
or backing down or cowering that
actually is a model I think will
work Well people want to see
candidates who are ready to fight
for things that most Americans
believe in and I think that's what
Democrats can offer
What is your comment on being
part of the most expensive
court race in U.S.
history?
My comment is, it is long past
time for campaign finance reform.
This is preposterous.
And I say that, you know, the
Democrats have outraised Republicans
in our state party for most of the
last bunch of years.
And I was saying that even then,
it's part of our state-party
platform very clearly.
The Wisconsin campaign finance
laws were written after McCain
Feingold, I was a Russ Feingald
intern, was struck down with
Citizens United.
And then nationally, the flood of
dark money came in in Wisconsin,
Robin Voss and Republicans rewrote
our campaign finance law in 2015.
If Democrats regain control,
let's clean up our politics, and if
Republicans would like to actually
join Democrats to do that, let get
started together.
But this idea that the richest
people in the world should blunder
in, hand out million dollar checks
and try to buy our democracy, it's
an affront to the idea of a country
where the people are supposed to
rule, not the power of wealth.
And we have a lot of work to do to
create a change.
Ben Wickler, thanks very much.
Thanks so much.
how fabulous you are at raising
money, right?
Yeah, I mean, we're using the rules
that they wrote, and that, you
know, we've been, at every step,
we've advocated for changes in these
laws. I will also say, if big
money leaves politics, we are much
better at small dollar fundraising,
too, and if money is not the factor,
I think our policies are more
popular. So, we would like
to have an even playing field, but
this is,
it felt like the kind of
reductio ad absurdum of our
campaign finance laws, what we just
experienced. It's like what people
warned about when Citizens United
went through. literally.
the richest person on planet Earth,
flying in his private jet.
Yeah, I know.
And finding out bribes, like, come
on.
You know, and it's funny to me, just
as a citizen, you kind of,
you've got to believe that the
votes and voters,
they don't go.
No, well that was what I was so
glad to see.