1
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,479
Issues continue to crop up in

2
00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:38,039
Milwaukee's late night ballot

3
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,239
counting process, this time further

4
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,759
delaying the results of the election

5
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,639
for a national audience.

6
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,379
How Milwaukee counts its ballots has

7
00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:46,899
been the subject of scrutiny for

8
00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:48,819
years. As the largest county in the

9
00:00:48,820 --> 00:00:50,479
state, it has the most absentee

10
00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:51,999
ballots to process before those

11
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,859
totals are reported, often leading

12
00:00:53,860 --> 00:00:55,419
to what people call a late night

13
00:00:55,420 --> 00:00:57,299
ballad dump and adding fuel to

14
00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,339
election conspiracy fires.

15
00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:00,619
In a press release, the Milwaukee

16
00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:02,459
Election Commission reiterated that

17
00:01:02,460 --> 00:01:04,479
what caused the delay had no impact

18
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,119
on the results.

19
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,999
Alexander Shurer, a reporter with

20
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,719
VoteBeat, watched the scene unfold

21
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:10,739
and he joins us now.

22
00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:11,740
Thanks for your time today.

23
00:01:13,050 --> 00:01:14,479
A pleasure. Thanks for having me.

24
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,159
So the issue occurred at the central

25
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,959
count, but this wasn't with how they

26
00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:19,459
count the ballots. This was at the

27
00:01:19,460 --> 00:01:20,459
end of the night getting the

28
00:01:20,460 --> 00:01:22,079
results. So kind of walk us through

29
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,019
what went wrong and what

30
00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:25,200
you were seeing as it happened.

31
00:01:26,950 --> 00:01:28,689
Yeah, so I'd say broadly what

32
00:01:28,690 --> 00:01:30,849
happened on Tuesday was 15 hours

33
00:01:30,850 --> 00:01:32,669
of nearly flawless

34
00:01:32,670 --> 00:01:35,049
processing and counting in

35
00:01:35,050 --> 00:01:36,289
a way that actually was more

36
00:01:36,290 --> 00:01:38,709
efficient than past elections being

37
00:01:38,710 --> 00:01:40,869
capped off by a

38
00:01:40,870 --> 00:01:43,649
really simple and regrettable error.

39
00:01:43,650 --> 00:01:45,749
So essentially all these ballots are

40
00:01:45,750 --> 00:01:47,689
counted. I think Milwaukee counted

41
00:01:47,690 --> 00:01:49,549
about 28,000 by the end of the

42
00:01:49,550 --> 00:01:51,519
night. And then the last step

43
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,339
before you send results to the

44
00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:54,839
counties, you need to extract those

45
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,259
results from the tabulators that

46
00:01:57,260 --> 00:01:58,839
count all the ballots.

47
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,639
So on election day, there were nine

48
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,379
tabulators, and

49
00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:05,279
typically an election official goes

50
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,259
to each tabulator, and

51
00:02:07,260 --> 00:02:09,079
they follow a checklist, or at least

52
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,079
they had in the past in Milwaukee,

53
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:12,939
and it takes about 10 minutes per

54
00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:14,679
tabulator. It adds a lot of time at

55
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,599
the end of the night, but it also

56
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,219
ensures uniformity.

57
00:02:18,220 --> 00:02:21,139
And what we saw on Tuesday was,

58
00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:22,519
took about 10 minutes to download

59
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,659
results from the first tabulator,

60
00:02:24,660 --> 00:02:26,279
took maybe five or six minutes from

61
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,259
the second, and then all of

62
00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:30,079
a sudden, it was taking two to

63
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,159
three minutes to download the

64
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:32,319
results from a tabulator.

65
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:33,839
And it wasn't just one election

66
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:34,959
official doing it, they were

67
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,939
dividing up into teams.

68
00:02:36,940 --> 00:02:39,039
So it went from what

69
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,939
I had gotten used to as somewhat

70
00:02:40,940 --> 00:02:43,139
of a slow, tedious process,

71
00:02:43,140 --> 00:02:44,699
it got really quick, and in

72
00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:46,749
hindsight, It just simply

73
00:02:46,750 --> 00:02:48,309
takes more than two or three minutes

74
00:02:48,310 --> 00:02:49,669
to download results from a

75
00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:50,709
tabulator.

76
00:02:50,710 --> 00:02:52,749
The reason that it went from

77
00:02:52,750 --> 00:02:55,409
10 minutes to three minutes was they

78
00:02:55,410 --> 00:02:56,569
were clicking the wrong button.

79
00:02:56,570 --> 00:02:58,449
They were not downloading election

80
00:02:58,450 --> 00:03:00,369
results from five of the

81
00:03:00,370 --> 00:03:02,609
nine tabulators at the

82
00:03:02,610 --> 00:03:05,069
City S&T Valid Processing Center.

83
00:03:05,070 --> 00:03:06,669
So just to clarify, there's no

84
00:03:06,670 --> 00:03:08,489
evidence of malfeasance or tampering

85
00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:10,789
or fraud, but that didn't stop the

86
00:03:10,790 --> 00:03:11,849
conspiracy theorists from

87
00:03:11,850 --> 00:03:14,409
immediately jumping all over this on

88
00:03:14,410 --> 00:03:15,729
the social media, right?

89
00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:18,519
That's exactly right.

90
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,959
And I think they saw it as a

91
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,939
way for the city or the state

92
00:03:22,940 --> 00:03:24,959
to rig the gubernatorial

93
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,319
primary against Francesca

94
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,159
Hong, no matter that Crowley was

95
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,099
on top before

96
00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:34,259
this so-called ballot dump,

97
00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:36,099
no manner that there are ballot

98
00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:38,259
images and audit logs and

99
00:03:38,260 --> 00:03:40,039
paper trail tracking every single

100
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,040
one of these ballots.

101
00:03:42,220 --> 00:03:43,759
I've been saying, for better or

102
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,839
worse, what happened was evidence

103
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:47,379
that elections are run by humans,

104
00:03:47,380 --> 00:03:49,639
and sometimes they make mistakes

105
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,559
when they're on a lack of sleep, or

106
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,559
there's not the checklist

107
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,119
that should be guiding them in front

108
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,349
of them.

109
00:03:56,350 --> 00:03:58,409
So many have been calling for a

110
00:03:58,410 --> 00:03:59,869
change in state law that would allow

111
00:03:59,870 --> 00:04:01,249
Milwaukee and other central account

112
00:04:01,250 --> 00:04:03,209
operations to start counting those

113
00:04:03,210 --> 00:04:04,809
absentee ballots and processing them

114
00:04:04,810 --> 00:04:06,669
on Monday before the election.

115
00:04:06,670 --> 00:04:08,269
So we're not waiting until late in

116
00:04:08,270 --> 00:04:09,049
the night.

117
00:04:09,050 --> 00:04:10,569
One of the champions of that has

118
00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:12,309
been a Republican who was pushed to

119
00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:13,349
try and get that bill through.

120
00:04:13,350 --> 00:04:14,489
It got killed in the state Senate,

121
00:04:14,490 --> 00:04:15,749
unfortunately.

122
00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:17,389
But even he has concerns and wants

123
00:04:17,390 --> 00:04:19,249
to hear testimony, right, so how

124
00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:21,189
will this unfold as people ask more

125
00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:22,190
questions?

126
00:04:23,450 --> 00:04:25,529
I think a really common rebuttal

127
00:04:25,530 --> 00:04:27,509
for past legislative efforts to pass

128
00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:29,869
this Monday processing bill is this

129
00:04:29,870 --> 00:04:31,689
talking point among

130
00:04:31,690 --> 00:04:33,689
Republican legislators that we

131
00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:35,349
can't trust Milwaukee with an extra

132
00:04:35,350 --> 00:04:37,109
day if they're only making errors

133
00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:39,189
on, you know, they

134
00:04:39,190 --> 00:04:40,189
only have one day and they're

135
00:04:40,190 --> 00:04:41,109
already making errors.

136
00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:42,409
Why should we let them do this on

137
00:04:42,410 --> 00:04:43,749
Monday?

138
00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:45,469
However, you see the logic of that

139
00:04:45,470 --> 00:04:47,489
talking point every

140
00:04:47,490 --> 00:04:49,349
time they make an error sort

141
00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:51,129
undermines this mission to pass

142
00:04:51,130 --> 00:04:52,489
Monday Council.

143
00:04:52,490 --> 00:04:53,789
As you pointed out, you have Scott

144
00:04:53,790 --> 00:04:56,029
Krug, who's a

145
00:04:56,030 --> 00:04:57,309
very staunch supporter of this

146
00:04:57,310 --> 00:04:59,009
Monday processing bill.

147
00:04:59,010 --> 00:05:00,369
And every time he sees Milwaukee

148
00:05:00,370 --> 00:05:01,789
make a mistake, like this past

149
00:05:01,790 --> 00:05:03,769
Tuesday, he

150
00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:06,429
knows that

151
00:05:06,430 --> 00:05:08,009
makes his case significantly harder,

152
00:05:08,010 --> 00:05:10,189
because now you have

153
00:05:10,190 --> 00:05:11,769
the state legislators looking at the

154
00:05:11,770 --> 00:05:13,269
city as a flawed election

155
00:05:13,270 --> 00:05:15,109
jurisdiction at the same

156
00:05:15,110 --> 00:05:17,069
time that the city's asking for more

157
00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:19,230
time to count and process ballots.

158
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,939
Yeah, and just a few seconds left,

159
00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:23,919
but give me a sense of what it's

160
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,419
going to look like in November,

161
00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:26,719
because I know this is the city of

162
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,039
Milwaukee, but people are going to

163
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,699
conflate David Crowley as the

164
00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:31,759
Milwaukee County executive.

165
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,239
Any late night ballot, balloting

166
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,699
totals coming in are going have even

167
00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:36,980
more scrutiny in the fall, right?

168
00:05:38,780 --> 00:05:40,939
It's possible, I mean, every,

169
00:05:40,940 --> 00:05:42,439
I think no matter what Milwaukee

170
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,319
does, even if they run a flawless

171
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:45,439
operation, they're gonna be

172
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:46,519
scrutinized.

173
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,479
If they make a single mistake

174
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,339
and they know this, it's

175
00:05:50,340 --> 00:05:51,739
gonna just lead to an absolute blow

176
00:05:51,740 --> 00:05:53,399
up in conspiracy theories,

177
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,259
especially if Crowley emerges

178
00:05:55,260 --> 00:05:57,279
as the candidate. So I think all

179
00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,139
of the pressure is on them to run

180
00:05:59,140 --> 00:06:00,599
this flawlessly in November.

181
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,219
All right, Alexander Sherv with Vote

182
00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:03,220
Beat. Thanks for your time today.

183
00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:05,759
Of course, thanks for having me.

184
00:06:09,410 --> 00:06:10,589
Perfect on time.

185
00:06:10,590 --> 00:06:11,629
Thank you so much for your time.

186
00:06:11,630 --> 00:06:12,630
I really appreciate it.

187
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:14,980
Thank you, thanks for featuring me.