For the Opposing Viewpoint, we are
now joined by Democratic Congressman
Mark Pocan.
Thanks for being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
So how long would you encourage
Senate Democrats to hold out on
passage of this continuing
resolution?
I think we need to make sure that
people understand what's at stake,
and I think people will by November
1st. You have to, we'll have the
rate increases for the Affordable
Care Act, for almost everyone's
group plans.
And I think that will show what
we've been talking about all along,
which is 15 million people are gonna
ultimately lose their health
insurance because of the big, ugly
law. And right now,
I had an employer told me just a
couple weeks ago that their new
increase for next year in insurance
is 41%, and that's
because of uncompensated care
created by the Affordable care Act.
So. I think they just need to make
sure that Republicans I know are
getting the calls like we are when
it comes to this, and it's gonna
only intensify by November
1st when people do get those rates.
So, you know, I would just say
hold tight.
Federal workers who are really being
heroes in all this right now, going
without paychecks, understand what
this fight is about, but we've
gotta make sure that people don't
lose one of the most important
economic legs to a stool that they
have.
So the Trump administration doesn't
seem to mind the shutdown.
They're trying to lay off thousands
of federal employees.
Trump's building his White House
ballroom right now, not worried
about any fiscal situation.
What is their incentive to negotiate
even after November 1st?
By next week I think we're going to
be about two and a half weeks out
from the original seven weeks they
had anyway.
We've kind of got to get together
and do something because the time
will run out for even their original
kind of arbitrary deadline they did
without negotiating to begin with
with us. So I think that's what's
going to happen.
But you know, as you pointed out, I
mean, Donald Trump, you know he's
using this as an excuse to fire
people, but he's already fired
200,000 people either
through rifts or outright firings
since he's been president, which he
doesn't have the authority. There's
been all kinds of lawsuits.
But this has already been happening.
That's part of the problem.
If you can't actually have an
agreement, like we used to in
Congress, and that somehow the
executive branch is gonna steal the
funds that we've agreed to in a
bipartisan way, then you don't
really have an argument.
And that's unfortunately the
place that we're at right now.
So, you know, this is really right
now about protecting people's
healthcare. And by the way, all of
us are gonna pay more for healthcare
because of that law, because of
the uncompensated care.
And it'll help everyone in having
this fight.
So how long can the government
function in shutdown mode?
At what point do things just, they
can't function at all and they shut
down?
Yeah, places like Wisconsin, you
feel it less, right?
I think I was doing a town hall in
Derrick Van Orden's district last
week and I asked about 50 people,
I said, who's feeling the impact
directly? And one person raised
their hand out of 50 people.
That's because we're in Wisconsin.
But if you're trying to get ahold of
social security, you wanna go to a
national park, but now if
you are eligible for SNAP benefits,
right, you're gonna start feeling
it. So you're going to see more of
those things now happen.
I just think by the time next week,
I'm gonna go back to Washington,
even if the House Republicans.
I'm gonna show up, because that's my
job to be there.
But at the same time,
we're gonna be at two and a half
weeks out from their artificial
deadline anyway, right?
So at some point we have to quit
holding our breath if you're the
House Republicans, show up in
Washington and let's
negotiate.
If not even this, let's
negotiation the farm bill that's two
years overdue.
Let's do the Older Americans Act
reauthorization that's overdue, but
let's do something.
Just simply taking another week of
paid vacation doesn't solve
anything.
You talked about the House
Republicans and Speaker Mike Johnson
refused to square in the newly
elected Democrat from Arizona.
Do you think that is related to this
discharge petition over the Epstein
files or is it simply that
there does not in session, there's
no need to come back because there's
the government shutdown?
I think it's a lot of things.
I think they think this is leverage
to try to bring us back to
reopen the government without fixing
healthcare. I think some of it is
about is the 218th signature in
Donald Trump, for whatever reason,
now doesn't want the release of the
Epstein files after campaigning on
releasing them.
But I've learned I can't
predict Republicans anymore, right,
I mean, it's been so, the fact that
you just don't even try to come to
Washington to do your job, to
negotiate, whether it be the
shutdown, healthcare,
the farm bill, anything, You just
think you don't have to show up.
That's a weird dynamic that
I've been doing this for a long time
in local, state, and federal
government.
Showing up matters.
And I don't know if I understand
their messaging. I'm not sure they
do, because they keep changing your
messaging. We're very clear.
We're fighting for the affordability
of healthcare so that people don't
lose their health insurance and we
all don't pay more for it.
And I think that's a fight people
understand.
So the midterms are still a year
away. Historically, there's little
evidence that government shutdowns
this far out from an election impact
the election.
Do you think this time could be
different?
I really don't know where this is
gonna end, right? Are they gonna
continue it?
Because again, Donald Trump kinda
likes parts of this, as you said.
I mean, he's already been acting
unilaterally, and unfortunately,
the Republican majorities in the
House and the Senate have allowed
him to do that.
Article One of the Constitution
gives us the power of the purse, but
he's stealing funds that we've
approved.
The Constitution gives the power of
tariffs to Congress, only emergency
tariffs to the President, but he is
getting away with it.
So... This is anything but normal
times. I think when you watch the
east wing of the Capitol being
demolished right now,
it's for visual learners to see what
he's doing to democracy, right?
He's literally demolishing the
institutions that we understand
fundamentally, and that's why you
had so many people last weekend at
the No Kings rally, seven million
people speaking out.
I just think these are times that
are hard for anyone to give you
honest predictions.
So finally, the consumer price index
came out today.
It's at 3%.
It's an increase year over year.
It's tariffs, right?
Or is there other factors that you
would consider in this? Yeah.
Trump's tariff taxes are absolutely
affecting us. When you talk to
employers, manufacturers,
they can't sell things overseas.
You talk to farmers, they're having
problems. You have no orders for
soybeans from China this year.
That's a billion dollars to the
Wisconsin economy alone.
We're all paying more for groceries,
for durable goods.
We're paying more energy now because
of the big ugly law.
We're about to pay more for
healthcare.
And sustained has been the increased
cost in housing.
But all those things are things that
are coming out of our...
Pocketbooks, but the biggest factor
that could change any of that would
be to get rid of this kind of
irresponsible use of tariffs.
Tariffs can be used wisely if
they're targeted, but when you have
them on every country at levels that
don't come from anywhere, just from
your head, it's like a monkey at
the zoo when it throws its dung.
You don't know where it's going to
land, but you know it's gonna be
messy. That seems to be Trump's
tariff policy, but we're all paying
for that messiness, and it
just needs to stop.
Congressman Pocan, thanks for your
time. Sure, thank you.
Quick. Yeah. Hope you got other
things in Madison you're doing.
Oh yeah, unfortunately,
oh yeah. This morning for some
reason, it's like...
So that's why they even drove me
over today so I can get back.