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You

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As electricity use tips up

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between staying indoors with air

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conditioning due to smoky air

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and heat, the issue of

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energy and where to get it is a

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hot topic here and around the

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country.

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And this week it was announced that

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a massive nuclear fusion research

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center is coming to Wisconsin.

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Realtor Fusion, a company spun

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out from research done at

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UW-Madison, will build a

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$200,000, oh, sorry,

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$200000.

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No, it's more like 100 million.

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Thank you.

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As electricity use tips

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up between staying indoors with

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air conditioning due to smoky

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air and heat, the issue

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of energy and where to get it is

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a hot topic here and around the

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country.

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And this week it was announced that

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a massive nuclear fusion research

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center is coming to Wisconsin.

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Realtor Fusion, a company spun

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out from research done at

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UW-Madison, will build a

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200,000 square foot research

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and development facility at the

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long vacant Oscar Meyer plant

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on the north side of Madison.

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The move means the company will be

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headquartered there, and the

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workforce is expected to increase

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from 50 employees to

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600.

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Along with $60 million from

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private investors, the state

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of Wisconsin gave nearly $40

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million in tax exemptions,

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with the city of Madison kicking in

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nearly $3 million in financing.

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Realtors CEO Kieran Furlong

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joins us now to explain the project

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and thanks for being here.

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Thank you very much for having me.

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So from old time hot dogs

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to futuristic generation

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of energy, what is

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the promise of nuclear fusion energy

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in this increasingly kind

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of electricity hungry world?

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Yeah, I mean, I think fusion really

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is the future for humanity, right?

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It's the source of energy that

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we need.

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If we're going to provide enough

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food, water, materials,

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mobility for 10 billion people,

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we need fusion.

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We're not going to dig or drill our

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way out of this, and we can

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build all the renewables plants

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we can manage,

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but we're still going to need more

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energy, and fusion holds that

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promise.

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Well, give us kind of the nuclear

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fusion for dummies description.

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Sure.

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Yeah, so fusion is another form of

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nuclear energy as it involves

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reactions with the nuclei of atoms,

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but it's the opposite process

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from what most people will think of

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when they think of conventional

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nuclear fission.

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That's where you take a large heavy

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atom like a uranium atom and

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split it.

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With fusion, we take very small

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light atoms and fuse them together,

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basically smooshing them together.

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And we take different flavors of

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hydrogen, push those together and

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form helium, the same stuff that you

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would find in party balloons.

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But when we do that, you get a small

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amount of the

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mass gets converted into a massive

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amount of energy.

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So I've read that researchers have

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been trying since the 1930s

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to generate electricity through

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nuclear fusion,

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described as the same process that

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powers the sun.

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Why is it so hard?

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Correct. So it was first postulated

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back in the early 20s by

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researchers looking at, well, what

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powers the sun?

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And so fusion is what powers sun and

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all the other stars in the universe.

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So in many ways, it's the oor

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energy that we have in the universe.

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The sun has the advantage of

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massive, massive scale.

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So, it is just so large,

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and its density gets us to the

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conditions that you can have fusion

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occur.

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So when fusion, we have something

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that's known as the, you know, you

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basically need something called the

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triple product.

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We basically need to get those

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elements we want to fuse together

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hot enough, dense enough,

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for long enough.

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We don't have the advantage of the

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sun's density, so we need to them

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very, very hot, hotter than the

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center of the Sun.

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And that itself is quite

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challenging.

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Do you feel as though your

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scientists have cracked the code to

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generating electricity through

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fusion?

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We're on the way there.

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And in fact, just recently we

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announced an experiment we did

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where we demonstrated we could pull

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electricity directly from the

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plasma that we're operating in the

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HWAM machine at the University of

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Wisconsin Madison.

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So plasma is the fourth state of

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matter. So you think ice,

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water, steam.

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The next step up would be plasma.

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So we need to get a plasma.

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We can hold that in a magnetic cage.

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Essentially, because we need to get

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it to temperatures much hotter than

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you could hold in a steel vessel,

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for example.

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But we're making great progress with

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it, there's still some work to do,

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and that's what we'll be doing, our

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R&D, in this new facility.

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What kind of gamble is it

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with all this money and the retrofit

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involved?

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So I think the first thing is we're

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not trying to defy any laws of

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physics, so I'm a

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great believer in the ingenuity of

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humans. We will find a way forward.

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There's an old joke about fusion

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that folks will say, oh, it's 20

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years in the future and always will

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be. That kind of ignores the

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effort that's needed to get there,

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and now we're making the effort.

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So there's more investment coming

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into fusion. We've got more people

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working on the problem.

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I'm 100% convinced humanity

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will solve fusion.

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The question is when.

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What do you think about when?

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So we're targeting the 2030s,

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so, you know, early to mid 2030s is

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when we intend to have a first

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commercial operation based

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on our technology.

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Does this project put Wisconsin on

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the map for fusion in a major

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way and why Wisconsin?

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Yeah, I think so, in terms of

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putting it on the map.

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And that's really been kind of one

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of our intentions from the start.

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So the University of

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Wisconsin-Madison is already one of

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the top institutions for research in

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this field of plasma physics and

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fusion.

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The state is very

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well-placed from a manufacturing

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standpoint, the ability to

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do precision and advanced

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manufacturing.

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Fusion industry is essentially

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bringing those two things together.

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We've got the scientific research to

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show, well, here's the kind of

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machine we need to build, and then

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we need know how to build those and

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demonstrate that we can do that cost

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effectively.

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I think Wisconsin is very well

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placed to do that.

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That was one of the factors in

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deciding to set up our R&D

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facility and corporate headquarters

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here.

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And I think, Wisconsin absolutely

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will be one of the

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main hubs for fusion in the 21st

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century.

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All right. Well, we appreciate you

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being here, Kieran, for a long

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thanks.

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Thank you very much.

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For more on this and other issues

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facing Wisconsin, visit our website

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at pbswisconsin.org

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and then click on the news tab.

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That's our program for tonight.

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I'm Frederica Freyberg.

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Have a good weekend.

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Thank you.