1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:01,030 What are you doing? 2 00:01:08,220 --> 00:01:10,019 Let's start at the beginning. 3 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:11,559 What is this facility, how did it 4 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,180 come about and what is its purpose? 5 00:01:14,310 --> 00:01:15,989 Yeah, so this is the University of 6 00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:17,569 Wisconsin Stevens Point Northern 7 00:01:17,570 --> 00:01:19,929 Aquaculture Demonstration Facility. 8 00:01:19,930 --> 00:01:21,849 And it exists to 9 00:01:21,850 --> 00:01:23,709 be a research arm of the aquaculture 10 00:01:23,710 --> 00:01:24,989 industry in the state of Wisconsin, 11 00:01:24,990 --> 00:01:25,990 ultimately. 12 00:01:26,590 --> 00:01:28,189 The state of the Wisconsin recognized 13 00:01:28,190 --> 00:01:30,329 a need for developing 14 00:01:30,330 --> 00:01:31,809 aquaculture within the state. 15 00:01:32,910 --> 00:01:34,849 And part of developing aqua 16 00:01:34,850 --> 00:01:36,369 culture in the State is having a 17 00:01:36,370 --> 00:01:38,729 strong, robust research 18 00:01:38,730 --> 00:01:39,730 arm. 19 00:01:40,450 --> 00:01:42,969 So our mandate is to do research. 20 00:01:42,970 --> 00:01:44,809 That supports aquaculture, but 21 00:01:44,810 --> 00:01:46,909 also science transfer, 22 00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:48,909 where we're taking that research and 23 00:01:48,910 --> 00:01:50,789 teaching it to 24 00:01:50,790 --> 00:01:53,069 prospective fish farmers. 25 00:01:53,070 --> 00:01:54,689 And then we also do outreach and 26 00:01:54,690 --> 00:01:56,249 education, where we are teaching K 27 00:01:56,250 --> 00:01:57,709 through 12 students or college 28 00:01:57,710 --> 00:02:00,369 students about aquaculture, 29 00:02:00,370 --> 00:02:02,010 training future workforce, 30 00:02:03,130 --> 00:02:05,269 and various other aspects of 31 00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:06,749 developing an aquacultur industry 32 00:02:06,750 --> 00:02:07,709 within the state. 33 00:02:07,710 --> 00:02:09,089 So I think most people who think of 34 00:02:09,090 --> 00:02:10,888 aquaculture know about salmon or 35 00:02:10,889 --> 00:02:12,769 tilapia, 36 00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:13,770 why do you blow it? 37 00:02:14,660 --> 00:02:16,779 Yeah, I mean, we've done research 38 00:02:16,780 --> 00:02:18,639 with salmon and tilapia, but 39 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:20,819 walleye are a species that is 40 00:02:20,820 --> 00:02:22,659 very valuable in the 41 00:02:22,660 --> 00:02:23,979 upper Midwest, especially in 42 00:02:23,980 --> 00:02:24,980 Wisconsin. 43 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,519 And we, for the longest 44 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,159 time, have not been able to culture 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:30,819 walleye in captivity. 46 00:02:31,820 --> 00:02:33,999 And going forward, 47 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,519 having walleye as a suitable 48 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,179 aquaculture species has the 49 00:02:37,180 --> 00:02:39,539 potential to be very valuable. 50 00:02:39,540 --> 00:02:41,279 Right now, if you go to a 51 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,099 supermarket or go to A Friday Fish 52 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:45,019 Fry, And there's walleye 53 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:46,319 on the menu. 54 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,299 That walleye is almost certainly 55 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:50,419 coming in as frozen filets 56 00:02:50,420 --> 00:02:52,699 from wild capture fisheries 57 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:55,019 in Canada, which is 58 00:02:55,020 --> 00:02:57,079 great, but that market 59 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,899 could be supplemented by 60 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:00,539 walleye that are raised right here 61 00:03:00,540 --> 00:03:02,319 in Wisconsin, locally to where 62 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,899 they're being consumed. 63 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:05,399 So we're doing a lot of research to 64 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,139 try to develop walleye as a suitable 65 00:03:07,140 --> 00:03:08,979 aquaculture species, figure out 66 00:03:08,980 --> 00:03:10,639 all the particularities of raising 67 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:11,769 them. 68 00:03:11,770 --> 00:03:13,729 And hopefully in the next couple 69 00:03:13,730 --> 00:03:16,049 of years we can have walleye that 70 00:03:16,050 --> 00:03:17,989 are on your 71 00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:19,489 plate that have been grown right 72 00:03:19,490 --> 00:03:20,469 here in Wisconsin. 73 00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:22,349 So what are you looking at 74 00:03:22,350 --> 00:03:23,350 and what have you found? 75 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:26,589 Yeah, so we're very early 76 00:03:26,590 --> 00:03:28,409 in developing walleye as a 77 00:03:28,410 --> 00:03:30,549 suitable aquaculture species. 78 00:03:30,550 --> 00:03:32,189 Other developed species, such as 79 00:03:32,190 --> 00:03:33,469 Atlantic salmon, we've been raising 80 00:03:33,470 --> 00:03:36,509 since the 50s, 60s. 81 00:03:36,510 --> 00:03:38,649 We've been only raising walleye 82 00:03:38,650 --> 00:03:40,529 for 10 to 15 years, 83 00:03:40,530 --> 00:03:42,369 right? And there's a lot of 84 00:03:42,370 --> 00:03:43,989 challenges that you have to overcome 85 00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:45,749 to develop a species for 86 00:03:45,750 --> 00:03:46,889 aquaculturing. 87 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:49,049 And we've iteratively working 88 00:03:49,050 --> 00:03:51,049 on those challenges in bottlenecks 89 00:03:51,050 --> 00:03:52,870 to make walleye a suitable species. 90 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:55,959 So we've done everything from 91 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,619 figuring out what feed to feed them 92 00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:59,719 at different life stages to 93 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,519 figuring out what environmental 94 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,759 conditions to give brood stock, 95 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,279 what temperatures, what oxygen 96 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,559 conditions, water quality 97 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:07,560 parameters. 98 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,699 We've also tried to figure out 99 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:12,339 techniques that make them more 100 00:04:12,340 --> 00:04:14,319 suitable for food fish 101 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,839 development. So can we stagger out 102 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,398 the timing of their growth so you 103 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:18,439 can bring them to market at 104 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,518 different times and 105 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:22,659 various aspects like that. 106 00:04:22,660 --> 00:04:24,439 Another thing that's neat is the 107 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,019 research that we're doing, while it 108 00:04:26,020 --> 00:04:28,019 primarily has an aquaculture 109 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:29,979 angle to it, often 110 00:04:29,980 --> 00:04:32,039 also has direct application 111 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,979 to wild fish fisheries. 112 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:35,559 So we're digging into the 113 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,759 reproductive physiology of 114 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,599 these fish and some of our 115 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,539 findings can tell us things about 116 00:04:42,540 --> 00:04:44,159 the importance of winter water 117 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,919 temperatures for walleye spawning or 118 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,979 growth rates of various strains 119 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:50,469 of walleye that we are working with. 120 00:04:50,470 --> 00:04:52,429 So it kind of has that 121 00:04:52,430 --> 00:04:54,359 dual application that's really neat. 122 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:55,819 Yeah, give me a little bit about 123 00:04:55,820 --> 00:04:56,959 light and temperature. 124 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,659 Those are some of the variables when 125 00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:00,519 no one really knows when the spawn 126 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,299 will happen in the stream. 127 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:04,039 Yeah, absolutely. 128 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,019 So for any 129 00:05:06,020 --> 00:05:07,839 fish species, light and 130 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:09,019 temperature are very important 131 00:05:09,020 --> 00:05:10,399 factors. 132 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,419 For walleye, temperature is really a 133 00:05:12,420 --> 00:05:14,379 primary driver of 134 00:05:14,380 --> 00:05:15,999 gonadal development. 135 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,819 In the wild, walleye 136 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:19,939 are experiencing a cold winter. 137 00:05:19,940 --> 00:05:21,839 They're under the ice for the 138 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:23,279 bulk of that winter period. 139 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:25,119 And we know that that cold winter is 140 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,199 really important for 141 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:28,959 their egg development and spawning. 142 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,079 We don't really have a great idea of 143 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:32,949 where the thresholds are 144 00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:34,949 or the boundaries on how warm 145 00:05:34,950 --> 00:05:36,569 that winter period can be for 146 00:05:36,570 --> 00:05:38,349 successful reproduction. 147 00:05:38,350 --> 00:05:39,549 So we've been doing research on 148 00:05:39,550 --> 00:05:41,489 trying to identify where 149 00:05:41,490 --> 00:05:42,829 those thresholds are. 150 00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:46,709 We've found in our research that 151 00:05:46,710 --> 00:05:48,509 colder water temperatures are far 152 00:05:48,510 --> 00:05:50,449 more ideal for 153 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:52,589 optimizing spawning in walleye 154 00:05:52,590 --> 00:05:54,449 so anything four 155 00:05:54,450 --> 00:05:56,409 to five degrees Celsius or 156 00:05:56,410 --> 00:05:58,409 cooler is is 157 00:05:58,410 --> 00:06:00,249 Perfect for walleye, you'll 158 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,169 get the best spawn if those fish 159 00:06:02,170 --> 00:06:04,149 have been exposed to those 160 00:06:04,150 --> 00:06:05,150 cold water temperatures. 161 00:06:06,550 --> 00:06:07,909 Approaching eight degrees Celsius 162 00:06:07,910 --> 00:06:09,569 and warmer, you start to see a 163 00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:12,389 decline in gamete quality, 164 00:06:12,390 --> 00:06:14,009 as well as the total number of eggs 165 00:06:14,010 --> 00:06:15,949 spawned and milk produced by 166 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:17,069 the males. 167 00:06:17,070 --> 00:06:18,889 And then even warmer than that, 168 00:06:18,890 --> 00:06:20,629 and we see pretty much a complete 169 00:06:20,630 --> 00:06:21,709 cessation of spawning. 170 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:24,619 This information is really useful 171 00:06:24,620 --> 00:06:26,159 for figuring out how to raise 172 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,759 walleye in a captive environment 173 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,699 like this. So we know now 174 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:30,759 if you're going to raise a walleye 175 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,459 and have a brood stock, you should 176 00:06:32,460 --> 00:06:36,219 give them a really cold winter to 177 00:06:36,220 --> 00:06:37,659 optimize their spawning. 178 00:06:37,660 --> 00:06:39,579 But it also tells us that in 179 00:06:39,580 --> 00:06:40,959 the wild, cold winters are 180 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,819 important. So these winters where 181 00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:44,719 we have ice out in the middle of 182 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,119 winter might be really 183 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,399 consequential for walleye 184 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,479 populations and the success 185 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,039 of walleye for spawning in that 186 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:52,539 year. 187 00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:54,399 So that must be variable over 188 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,379 stream, because obviously fish 189 00:06:56,380 --> 00:06:58,099 south of Wisconsin don't necessarily 190 00:06:58,100 --> 00:06:59,809 get ice conditions. 191 00:06:59,810 --> 00:07:00,829 Yeah, absolutely. 192 00:07:00,830 --> 00:07:02,289 A lot of people don't realize the 193 00:07:02,290 --> 00:07:04,409 really broad distribution of 194 00:07:04,410 --> 00:07:06,009 walleye. Even here in Wisconsin 195 00:07:06,010 --> 00:07:07,489 we're kind of at the southern 196 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:09,609 fringes of core walleye 197 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:11,829 habitat, but walleye actually 198 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:13,789 are present in 199 00:07:13,790 --> 00:07:15,789 Alabamas, so that far south, 200 00:07:15,790 --> 00:07:17,429 and those fish are certainly not 201 00:07:17,430 --> 00:07:19,589 getting the same winter cues that 202 00:07:19,590 --> 00:07:21,449 they're getting here in Wisconsin or 203 00:07:21,450 --> 00:07:23,489 in their core habitat in, 204 00:07:23,490 --> 00:07:24,630 say, central Ontario. 205 00:07:27,490 --> 00:07:29,569 There's certainly a strain factor 206 00:07:29,570 --> 00:07:31,569 at play and we are doing some work 207 00:07:31,570 --> 00:07:33,509 on figuring out how those 208 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:35,949 different strains respond to 209 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:38,129 changes in climate and warmer 210 00:07:38,130 --> 00:07:39,789 water conditions. 211 00:07:39,790 --> 00:07:42,749 We're also seeing what genetic 212 00:07:42,750 --> 00:07:44,309 components that these different 213 00:07:44,310 --> 00:07:46,129 strains may have that make 214 00:07:46,130 --> 00:07:48,429 them more suitable for aquaculture, 215 00:07:48,430 --> 00:07:49,749 for food production. 216 00:07:49,750 --> 00:07:51,589 So is it just, I mean people have 217 00:07:51,590 --> 00:07:53,129 talked long term about the collapse 218 00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:54,789 of Wall Island, lakes in northern 219 00:07:54,790 --> 00:07:55,790 Wisconsin. 220 00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:58,289 How much of that can be tied now 221 00:07:58,290 --> 00:08:00,169 with these studies to climate 222 00:08:00,170 --> 00:08:01,989 change or lake shore development 223 00:08:01,990 --> 00:08:03,730 versus over harvest? 224 00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:06,369 Yeah, it's a really difficult 225 00:08:06,370 --> 00:08:08,189 question. It's really hard, 226 00:08:08,190 --> 00:08:09,589 especially when you're looking in 227 00:08:09,590 --> 00:08:11,889 natural systems, to 228 00:08:11,890 --> 00:08:13,969 assign a particular outcome 229 00:08:13,970 --> 00:08:16,130 with one individual cause. 230 00:08:17,310 --> 00:08:18,349 The fact of the matter is there's 231 00:08:18,350 --> 00:08:20,409 multiple stressors occurring that 232 00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:22,249 all, in combination, 233 00:08:22,250 --> 00:08:24,089 lead to these effects that 234 00:08:24,090 --> 00:08:25,169 we observe. 235 00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:27,869 What we do know is that 236 00:08:27,870 --> 00:08:30,049 walleye populations are struggling 237 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:31,909 in a lot of portions of their 238 00:08:31,910 --> 00:08:33,869 range, and it's likely a 239 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:35,979 combination of spawning 240 00:08:35,980 --> 00:08:37,260 habitat degradation, 241 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:40,779 thermal conditions, thermal 242 00:08:40,780 --> 00:08:42,479 photo conditions in these lakes 243 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,379 shifting to be less favorable 244 00:08:44,380 --> 00:08:46,319 for walleye, and also the 245 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,159 trophic structure in lakes shifting 246 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,159 to be more favorable for other 247 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,159 species such as largemouth 248 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,059 bass and less suitable 249 00:08:54,060 --> 00:08:55,459 for walleyes. 250 00:08:55,460 --> 00:08:56,799 But the reality is all these 251 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,499 combinations are acting in concert 252 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,479 to have these influences 253 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,749 on walleye in their native range. 254 00:09:02,750 --> 00:09:04,689 So when the old thing of 255 00:09:04,690 --> 00:09:06,629 just people caught too many and 256 00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:08,829 kept too many, or bag limits, 257 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:10,509 or tribes, or whatever they wanted 258 00:09:10,510 --> 00:09:12,649 to blame it on, often those were 259 00:09:12,650 --> 00:09:13,650 downstream effects. 260 00:09:14,820 --> 00:09:16,799 Sometimes and sometimes 261 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,059 over harvest can still 262 00:09:19,060 --> 00:09:20,759 have an effect on walleye and that's 263 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,479 why we have our fishing regulations 264 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,419 and those regulations 265 00:09:24,420 --> 00:09:26,279 can change on various lakes 266 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,339 depending on what fisheries 267 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:29,340 managers are seeing. 268 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,199 But yeah by 269 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,999 and large a lot of the challenges 270 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,419 that walleye are facing right now 271 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:38,059 are not due to overfishing, 272 00:09:38,060 --> 00:09:39,879 it's due to those changes in 273 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,789 to a thermal habitat or 274 00:09:42,790 --> 00:09:44,509 you know, changes in spawning 275 00:09:44,510 --> 00:09:46,809 habitat that we're seeing. 276 00:09:46,810 --> 00:09:48,709 So, I mean, 277 00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:50,509 in some ways is it like Northwoods 278 00:09:50,510 --> 00:09:53,149 has gone from 279 00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:55,149 wild to a little more 280 00:09:55,150 --> 00:09:57,149 cultured as it's become the northern 281 00:09:57,150 --> 00:09:59,029 lake home and less of the cabin 282 00:09:59,030 --> 00:10:00,769 with the weeds down to the water's 283 00:10:00,770 --> 00:10:02,269 edge. Yeah. 284 00:10:02,270 --> 00:10:03,429 Between the water ski or the power 285 00:10:03,430 --> 00:10:05,509 boats and like just how 286 00:10:05,510 --> 00:10:07,229 we use the lakes has changed so much 287 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:09,639 that it's changed lakes that sucks. 288 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,039 Yeah, absolutely. 289 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:12,859 You mentioned power boats and 290 00:10:12,860 --> 00:10:14,179 that can be an issue. 291 00:10:14,180 --> 00:10:15,519 One of the biggest issues is 292 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,639 sedimentation of 293 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:18,999 spawning habitat. 294 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,179 So while I require rocky 295 00:10:21,180 --> 00:10:23,199 riprap to 296 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,579 disperse their eggs and 297 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:27,419 that needs to be well oxygenated for 298 00:10:27,420 --> 00:10:29,339 those eggs to develop and ultimately 299 00:10:29,340 --> 00:10:30,399 hatch. 300 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,639 And in a lot of systems that 301 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,799 have a lot sediment load, 302 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,819 those spawning substrates can it 303 00:10:36,820 --> 00:10:38,699 completely covered and those eggs no 304 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:39,709 longer have. 305 00:10:39,710 --> 00:10:41,749 A good well-oxygenated place 306 00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:43,629 to develop, and sometimes those 307 00:10:43,630 --> 00:10:45,309 eggs can even be covered by sediment 308 00:10:45,310 --> 00:10:47,489 in the right type of system, 309 00:10:47,490 --> 00:10:48,649 and that can be really detrimental. 310 00:10:50,140 --> 00:10:51,419 Who's funding all this? 311 00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:55,189 Yeah, over the years, we've 312 00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:56,749 had funding from a variety of 313 00:10:56,750 --> 00:10:58,089 different sources, and it depends on 314 00:10:58,090 --> 00:10:59,149 the project. 315 00:10:59,150 --> 00:11:00,369 Right now, a lot of our funding is 316 00:11:00,370 --> 00:11:02,469 coming from Wisconsin Sea Grant 317 00:11:02,470 --> 00:11:04,169 through NOAA. 318 00:11:04,170 --> 00:11:06,349 But we've also had funding through 319 00:11:06,350 --> 00:11:07,529 the North Central Regional 320 00:11:07,530 --> 00:11:15,929 Aquaculture Center 321 00:11:15,930 --> 00:11:19,349 through 322 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:20,849 USDA. 323 00:11:20,850 --> 00:11:23,309 Um, and we've also had, uh, 324 00:11:23,310 --> 00:11:25,829 other, other sources of funding from 325 00:11:25,830 --> 00:11:29,069 US Fish and Wildlife Service, um, 326 00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:30,409 and Great Lakes Fisheries Commission 327 00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:32,329 and Great Lakes Restoration 328 00:11:32,330 --> 00:11:33,479 Initiative. 329 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,099 So one of the things that we try to 330 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:36,699 look at through the walleye and the 331 00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:38,839 research is how 332 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,319 it is that all this money gets 333 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,979 poured into this one species and 334 00:11:42,980 --> 00:11:44,599 what does that say about that 335 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,699 species that's so 336 00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:49,059 desirable or so important that 337 00:11:49,060 --> 00:11:50,339 there's all this money from these 338 00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:51,440 different places coming in. 339 00:11:52,660 --> 00:11:54,759 Yeah, I mean, walleye are 340 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,279 tremendously culturally important 341 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,179 for really everybody 342 00:11:59,180 --> 00:12:00,479 in the region. 343 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,659 It's far and away the most favored 344 00:12:02,660 --> 00:12:04,839 sport fish in 345 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:05,840 the upper Midwest. 346 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:08,659 In my opinion, the best tasting fish 347 00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:10,419 that you can get. 348 00:12:10,420 --> 00:12:13,259 So there's a lot of value from 349 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:15,439 a lot different angles and that 350 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,279 contributes to why we're funding 351 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,359 a lot the work on developing walleye 352 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,199 as an aquaculture species. 353 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,819 And also contributes to why we're 354 00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:24,879 spending a lot of research money on 355 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,419 figuring out how to conserve this 356 00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:27,420 species for the future. 357 00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:30,789 So tell me a little about yourself. 358 00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:33,189 You grew up in the upper Midwest. 359 00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:34,829 Walleye was not a strange species to 360 00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:35,629 you. 361 00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:37,329 Yeah, absolutely not. 362 00:12:37,330 --> 00:12:39,189 Grew up fishing walleye, 363 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:40,789 primarily targeting walleye 364 00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:43,789 and they're far and away my favorite 365 00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:45,629 species to fish for and I 366 00:12:45,630 --> 00:12:47,329 continue to do that to this day. 367 00:12:47,330 --> 00:12:48,709 Even though I spend a lot of time in 368 00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:50,729 the lab studying those fish, I still 369 00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:53,489 go out and try to catch them. 370 00:12:53,490 --> 00:12:55,469 So yeah, I'm no stranger 371 00:12:55,470 --> 00:12:56,669 to working with walleye. 372 00:12:56,670 --> 00:12:57,429 That's for sure. 373 00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:59,209 Did that make this more desirable or 374 00:12:59,210 --> 00:13:01,029 did you know that was going to 375 00:13:01,030 --> 00:13:03,149 happen when you took this job? 376 00:13:03,150 --> 00:13:04,509 Yeah, absolutely not. 377 00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:05,429 I didn't know that was going to 378 00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:07,189 happen when I took the job. 379 00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:09,209 However, we have the 380 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:11,729 ability to tailor my 381 00:13:11,730 --> 00:13:13,749 research program into 382 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:15,749 a direction that interests us. 383 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:17,309 And walleye is certainly one of the 384 00:13:17,310 --> 00:13:18,909 things that really interests me. 385 00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:20,649 Likely because of that exposure I 386 00:13:20,650 --> 00:13:22,749 had as a kid fishing for 387 00:13:22,750 --> 00:13:24,649 walleye, I 388 00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:26,589 personally value them quite a bit. 389 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:28,729 And really want to see them succeed 390 00:13:28,730 --> 00:13:31,029 both as an aquaculture species and 391 00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:33,269 as a future angling opportunity 392 00:13:33,270 --> 00:13:35,129 for our communities or for 393 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:36,749 my kids, right? 394 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:39,429 Does that make the science easier, 395 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:41,209 or more? 396 00:13:41,210 --> 00:13:43,169 Because there's a natural scientific 397 00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:45,229 drive to find out the answers 398 00:13:45,230 --> 00:13:46,269 for things. 399 00:13:46,270 --> 00:13:47,329 But then when there's personal 400 00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:48,669 passion that comes with it, because 401 00:13:48,670 --> 00:13:50,669 you understand the importance of 402 00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:52,569 getting that answer, do those kind 403 00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:53,979 of dovetail? 404 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:55,919 Those certainly dovetail, yeah, it 405 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,359 makes it more exciting when you 406 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,259 really have a 407 00:13:59,260 --> 00:14:01,359 passion for the species and, 408 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,419 you know, an interest 409 00:14:03,420 --> 00:14:05,079 in that species and you've seen 410 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,039 those changes in populations over 411 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,459 the years in the lakes that you 412 00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:09,579 fish, right? 413 00:14:09,580 --> 00:14:11,139 So there's that personal connection 414 00:14:11,140 --> 00:14:13,299 that makes it a 415 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:14,719 lot more fun and interesting to do 416 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:15,720 the research side of it. 417 00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:18,749 Knowing the fish in the tanks here, 418 00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:19,889 does that help you in the lake at 419 00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:20,599 all? 420 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Absolutely not. 421 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,899 Yeah, absolutely not. 422 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:26,719 But it does change how I think about 423 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:27,720 them in the lakes. 424 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,599 Some of the research that we've done 425 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,719 here, you know, makes me think about 426 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:33,919 how they're going through 427 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,359 reproductive development in the 428 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,279 winter and 429 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,359 a lot of the best research ideas 430 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,239 that I have I develop 431 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,019 while I'm sitting on a lake fishing 432 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:44,059 for them. 433 00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:45,599 So I understand that one of the new 434 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,159 proposals you've got was looking at 435 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,019 ponds and the impact 436 00:14:50,020 --> 00:14:52,039 that may have on SACS 437 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,040 patients. 438 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:55,249 Yeah, there's been some really 439 00:14:55,250 --> 00:14:57,289 interesting research into 440 00:14:57,290 --> 00:14:59,849 skewed sex ratios. 441 00:14:59,850 --> 00:15:01,869 At one point, the Wisconsin DNR has 442 00:15:01,870 --> 00:15:04,049 identified that a 443 00:15:04,050 --> 00:15:05,969 lot of the ponds that we're using to 444 00:15:05,970 --> 00:15:08,509 raise walleye for stocking have 445 00:15:08,510 --> 00:15:11,009 female skewed-sex ratios. 446 00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:12,429 And we don't really have a great 447 00:15:12,430 --> 00:15:14,269 handle on what might be 448 00:15:14,270 --> 00:15:16,329 causing that. So we've 449 00:15:16,330 --> 00:15:17,929 worked with Red Cliff Tree Natural 450 00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:19,829 Resources to put together a 451 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:20,830 proposal. 452 00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:22,769 To try to dig into that. 453 00:15:22,770 --> 00:15:24,509 That's also in collaboration with 454 00:15:24,510 --> 00:15:26,549 the Wisconsin DNR and 455 00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:28,379 University of St. Thomas. 456 00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:30,159 And what are some of the ideas of 457 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,649 why that may be? 458 00:15:31,650 --> 00:15:33,629 Yeah, there's a wide suite 459 00:15:33,630 --> 00:15:35,449 of potential causes for 460 00:15:35,450 --> 00:15:37,129 that sex ratio skew. 461 00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:39,649 One could be as simple as 462 00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:41,869 males take longer to develop 463 00:15:41,870 --> 00:15:44,169 their reproductive 464 00:15:44,170 --> 00:15:45,949 machinery, right? 465 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:47,809 So they might not be showing up 466 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:48,749 in those surveys. 467 00:15:48,750 --> 00:15:50,509 So that sex-ratio skew could simply 468 00:15:50,510 --> 00:15:52,449 be it's harder to detect 469 00:15:52,450 --> 00:15:54,289 males when they're present 470 00:15:54,290 --> 00:15:55,889 at that early stage. 471 00:15:55,890 --> 00:15:57,769 It could also be due to 472 00:15:57,770 --> 00:15:59,729 temperature. Or wind 473 00:15:59,730 --> 00:16:00,839 ponds. 474 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,619 That we use to raise walleye for 475 00:16:02,620 --> 00:16:04,859 stocking are often warmer than 476 00:16:04,860 --> 00:16:06,199 our unlined ponds. 477 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,119 And that could contribute to that 478 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,739 sex ratio skew. 479 00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:11,199 It could be due to fertilization 480 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:12,539 regimes. 481 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:15,599 We know that nitrate 482 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,419 can be a endocrine disruptor 483 00:16:17,420 --> 00:16:19,199 in some circumstances. 484 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,379 And it also could be leachate 485 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:23,299 from the liners that are used 486 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:24,979 to line some of these walleye 487 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:25,980 rearing ponds 488 00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:29,359 hoping to dig into all of those 489 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,199 potential sources of sex ratio 490 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,159 skew and identify which, 491 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,919 if any of them, are potential 492 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,039 causes. 493 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,539 So talk to me a little bit about how 494 00:16:37,540 --> 00:16:39,679 the interaction with the Namacoggy 495 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,499 and Lake Association breadcrumbs all 496 00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:42,919 came about. 497 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:43,920 Yeah, 498 00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:46,399 it's really unique to have a 499 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:47,699 collaboration between a lake 500 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:49,659 association, a tribal natural 501 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:51,479 resources agency, 502 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,439 the Wisconsin DNR, and 503 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,319 a state university, right? 504 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,019 So it's a really neat project. 505 00:16:58,020 --> 00:16:59,859 It came about because the 506 00:16:59,860 --> 00:17:01,399 lake association ultimately was 507 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,399 looking for somewhere to 508 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,799 stock their lake with more walleye 509 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,199 so that they could have more angling 510 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,598 opportunities. 511 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:09,679 And they approach Redcliff 512 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,659 to Red 513 00:17:11,660 --> 00:17:13,199 Cliff tree natural resources to see 514 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,479 if they could raise some walleye for 515 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,480 them. 516 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,639 And Red Cliff has their own stocking 517 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,719 that quotas that they need to meet. 518 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,679 And we had some ponds that we were 519 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,559 not using at the time. 520 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,439 And it just so happened to 521 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,039 work out that we could raise those 522 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,519 fish for them here. 523 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:30,839 But we wanted to have a study 524 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,779 associated with it. 525 00:17:32,780 --> 00:17:35,719 The study that we came up with is, 526 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,219 can we try to figure out if 527 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:38,220 there's... 528 00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,819 Any adverse consequences to 529 00:17:40,820 --> 00:17:42,499 stocking fish that are raised in 530 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:45,159 indoor systems into the wild. 531 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,219 Right now it's a lot cheaper to 532 00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:49,059 raise walleye in indoor 533 00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:50,419 system when you're able to give them 534 00:17:50,420 --> 00:17:52,519 a pelleted feed and really 535 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,659 control other sources of mortality 536 00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:56,039 that you can't really control in 537 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,279 ponds. 538 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,199 But if those fish that 539 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,339 are raised indoors can't 540 00:18:01,340 --> 00:18:03,419 get onto wild forage 541 00:18:03,420 --> 00:18:04,879 when they're stocked out, then it 542 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,039 might not be a great option. 543 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,859 So the study is looking at... 544 00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:11,309 Relative success of pond-raised 545 00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:12,669 walleye that are stocked into the 546 00:18:12,670 --> 00:18:14,649 lake, compared to indoor-raise 547 00:18:14,650 --> 00:18:15,789 walleye, that are stalked into the 548 00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:16,589 lake. 549 00:18:16,590 --> 00:18:18,409 And right now, Glyphwick 550 00:18:18,410 --> 00:18:19,909 is actually doing surveys on Lake 551 00:18:19,910 --> 00:18:22,149 Namacoggin to 552 00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:24,709 look at the relative returns of 553 00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:27,259 our indoor and outdoor stocked fish. 554 00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:29,389 And it's a thin clip, right? 555 00:18:29,390 --> 00:18:31,489 Yes, so we gave all 556 00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:33,469 of our indoor fish a right 557 00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:35,909 ventral fin clip, 558 00:18:35,910 --> 00:18:38,069 and all of our outdoor raised fish a 559 00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:40,129 left ventral thin clip, 560 00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:42,709 so we'll be able to see what 561 00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:44,989 proportion of those fish return 562 00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:47,229 in our population assessment 563 00:18:47,230 --> 00:18:48,289 in Mammac Argon. 564 00:18:48,290 --> 00:18:49,789 And how long will that take before 565 00:18:49,790 --> 00:18:50,790 you feel confident? 566 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,779 Well, we've been stocking Mamakogan 567 00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:55,819 with these right 568 00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:57,899 and left ventral fin-cooked fish 569 00:18:57,900 --> 00:18:59,859 for five years 570 00:18:59,860 --> 00:19:01,739 now. So we should have a good 571 00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:03,719 idea with this survey what 572 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,299 those relative returns are. 573 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,839 So really we'll have our results in 574 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,719 two weeks here. 575 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:10,939 Oh, okay, that quick. Yeah, it'll 576 00:19:10,940 --> 00:19:11,999 take a while to do the data 577 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,959 analysis, of course, and 578 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,839 I'll have limited bandwidth 579 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,119 on how quickly 580 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:19,339 I can dig into that data. 581 00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:21,119 But yeah, it will be that quick! 582 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,859 Because we were with Cliff with last 583 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:24,199 fall when they were doing their year 584 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,719 of young survey. 585 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,179 That's when they're actually looking 586 00:19:27,180 --> 00:19:27,759 for it, right? 587 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,780 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 588 00:19:28,781 --> 00:19:29,189 Absolutely. 589 00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:30,069 I'll just give you one second to get 590 00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:31,789 up on the plane. 591 00:19:31,790 --> 00:19:32,809 There we go. 592 00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:38,439 So with that survey, obviously they 593 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,319 knew that, but that's how all these 594 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,660 things kind of dug together, right? 595 00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:45,809 Yeah, I mean really the 596 00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:47,829 research and management of 597 00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:49,349 our fisheries is a really big 598 00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:51,449 coordinated effort between Tribal 599 00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:53,929 Natural Resources Agencies, 600 00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:54,789 you know, University of 601 00:19:54,790 --> 00:19:56,749 Wisconsin-Stevens Point, 602 00:19:56,750 --> 00:19:58,649 and other state universities, 603 00:19:58,650 --> 00:20:00,149 and Wisconsin DNR. 604 00:20:00,150 --> 00:20:01,789 And there's a lot of different field 605 00:20:01,790 --> 00:20:03,269 crews and a lot different 606 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:05,529 researchers that are involved 607 00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:07,689 in that coordinated effort, so it's 608 00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:08,079 really neat. 609 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,699 So do you remember what some of the 610 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:11,539 numbers are from last year, 611 00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:12,919 what you were able to stock in the 612 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:13,819 dump truck? 613 00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:15,739 I don't off the top of 614 00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:16,779 my head. 615 00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:18,739 I want to say that last year 616 00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:19,740 we stocked 617 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,499 somewhere around 10,000 618 00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:25,359 fish from our ponds 619 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,239 and closer to five or 620 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:28,719 six thousand fish from indoors 621 00:20:30,020 --> 00:20:32,059 Obviously they have a factory. 622 00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:34,039 Yes, we account for the differential 623 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,139 numbers that were stalked 624 00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:37,499 when we're doing an analysis. 625 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:38,879 We were out there with you last 626 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,119 year, and we were like, we have no 627 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:41,159 idea if there's anything to say in 628 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,089 there. Oh, you think there are? 629 00:20:43,090 --> 00:20:44,929 Right, yeah, I can, I 630 00:20:44,930 --> 00:20:46,989 do know that 631 00:20:46,990 --> 00:20:49,129 Glyphwik has captured 632 00:20:49,130 --> 00:20:51,009 2,000 plus 633 00:20:51,010 --> 00:20:53,049 fish already and they have 634 00:20:53,050 --> 00:20:54,829 found clips from both indoors and 635 00:20:54,830 --> 00:20:56,889 outdoors in their survey. 636 00:20:56,890 --> 00:20:58,349 I don't know the relative proportion 637 00:20:58,350 --> 00:21:00,169 yet, so that'll be the data 638 00:21:00,170 --> 00:21:01,609 we dig into here in the next couple 639 00:21:01,610 --> 00:21:02,129 weeks. 640 00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:04,069 I mean, how exciting is it for you, 641 00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:06,289 like, to get that data back? 642 00:21:06,290 --> 00:21:07,369 Because there's one thing to be able 643 00:21:07,370 --> 00:21:08,869 to raise them and release them, but 644 00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:11,069 then to get that in. 645 00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:13,049 Yeah, I mean, it's tremendously 646 00:21:13,050 --> 00:21:14,589 exciting, especially for a project 647 00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:17,549 like that where there's a five-year 648 00:21:17,550 --> 00:21:19,669 build-up to getting those 649 00:21:19,670 --> 00:21:20,989 final results, right? 650 00:21:20,990 --> 00:21:23,589 So there's a lot that went into 651 00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:25,569 being able to see 652 00:21:25,570 --> 00:21:27,289 the final results of this study. 653 00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:29,509 So it's very exciting to finally do 654 00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:31,199 that final survey. 655 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,359 Do you think that the average 656 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,319 fisherman, angler, the person 657 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:36,579 that goes up in the boat and throws 658 00:21:36,580 --> 00:21:38,879 a line in the water has any idea 659 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,219 about all the different groups, 660 00:21:41,220 --> 00:21:43,139 agencies, and people trying 661 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:44,559 to make sure there's a fish for 662 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,459 them? 663 00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:47,359 Yeah, I would anticipate that the 664 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:49,279 average angler probably doesn't 665 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,219 have a good idea of how big of 666 00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:53,379 a coordinated effort it is to 667 00:21:53,380 --> 00:21:55,319 manage walleye populations and 668 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,359 figure out stocking regimes. 669 00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,099 But I hope that they do, because 670 00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:01,099 it's really a 671 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,599 cool process and it's 672 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,159 something that I think a lot of 673 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,059 people would value if they knew how 674 00:22:07,060 --> 00:22:08,529 much work went into it. 675 00:22:08,530 --> 00:22:10,529 So, there are questions about 676 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:12,509 whether it's worth it to stop 677 00:22:12,510 --> 00:22:14,449 fish at all, given the 678 00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:16,409 amount of money, time, 679 00:22:16,410 --> 00:22:18,229 and expense, versus a return 680 00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:20,189 in some lakes where they just 681 00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:21,109 don't thrive. 682 00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:22,589 It's a question of, well, if that's 683 00:22:22,590 --> 00:22:23,849 not a walleye lake, why should we 684 00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:24,829 put more walleye in it? 685 00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:26,949 Let it be a good fanfish, 686 00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:28,829 or it must be a bass than. 687 00:22:28,830 --> 00:22:31,089 Yeah, yeah, I mean there certainly 688 00:22:31,090 --> 00:22:33,169 is that argument 689 00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:35,489 to be made, and in some cases that's 690 00:22:35,490 --> 00:22:37,429 the decision that the DNR makes 691 00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:38,989 is, you know, that lake is going to 692 00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:40,929 be a panfish lake or something like 693 00:22:40,930 --> 00:22:43,009 that. But there is still some value 694 00:22:43,010 --> 00:22:44,989 to stocking lakes that no longer 695 00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:47,829 support natural walleye reproduction 696 00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:50,089 as a put-and-take opportunity, 697 00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:52,269 because if 698 00:22:52,270 --> 00:22:54,309 we let all the walleye lakes that no 699 00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:55,769 longer support natural reproduction 700 00:22:55,770 --> 00:22:57,369 go by the wayside. 701 00:22:58,570 --> 00:23:00,149 We're simply gonna lose a lot of the 702 00:23:00,150 --> 00:23:01,629 opportunities to catch walleye that 703 00:23:01,630 --> 00:23:03,569 we once had, especially 704 00:23:03,570 --> 00:23:05,549 in the southern portions 705 00:23:05,550 --> 00:23:07,149 of the state. 706 00:23:07,150 --> 00:23:09,309 So there is still value to 707 00:23:09,310 --> 00:23:11,649 supporting put-and-take fisheries. 708 00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:13,309 And hopefully going forward, we can 709 00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:15,049 address some of the issues that are 710 00:23:15,050 --> 00:23:16,809 causing that lake to no longer 711 00:23:16,810 --> 00:23:18,230 support natural reproduction. 712 00:23:19,370 --> 00:23:21,529 What would be lost if 713 00:23:21,530 --> 00:23:23,289 Walleye were, you know, because 714 00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:25,349 Winnebago and the wolf, you know, 715 00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:27,049 that system seems fine. 716 00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:28,749 Green Bay seems healthy. 717 00:23:28,750 --> 00:23:29,729 And just, you now, that's where 718 00:23:29,730 --> 00:23:30,989 Walleye are. 719 00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:32,809 And the rest of the state is just 720 00:23:32,810 --> 00:23:33,810 what it is. 721 00:23:34,230 --> 00:23:35,230 Yeah. 722 00:23:35,910 --> 00:23:37,849 I think that we'd 723 00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:40,149 still have a lot 724 00:23:40,150 --> 00:23:42,069 lost by losing those 725 00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:43,989 opportunities in a variety 726 00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:46,029 of lakes because not everybody 727 00:23:46,030 --> 00:23:47,929 gets to experience that 728 00:23:47,930 --> 00:23:49,849 fishing in those water bodies 729 00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:51,869 that do currently support 730 00:23:51,870 --> 00:23:53,409 natural reproduction. 731 00:23:53,410 --> 00:23:55,549 So making those opportunities more 732 00:23:55,550 --> 00:23:57,549 available to more groups of people 733 00:23:57,550 --> 00:23:59,249 that wouldn't otherwise have them 734 00:23:59,250 --> 00:24:01,069 still has a lot of value, 735 00:24:01,070 --> 00:24:02,070 I think. 736 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,179 You've experienced catching fish as 737 00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:06,279 a kid. Do you remember your first 738 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:07,280 walleye? 739 00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:10,699 I don't remember my first walleye, 740 00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:12,779 but I do remember a 741 00:24:12,780 --> 00:24:15,439 lot of really memorable walleye. 742 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:16,879 Some of the pictures I've provided 743 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,619 you are from some of my more 744 00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:20,579 memorable walleyes that I still 745 00:24:20,580 --> 00:24:22,599 have very core memories of 746 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,869 catching as a kid. 747 00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:26,709 It's different than, 748 00:24:26,710 --> 00:24:27,779 than fish. 749 00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:29,339 It is. 750 00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:30,780 It really is. 751 00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:34,079 First of all, walleye are just 752 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,899 a really, really neat fish. 753 00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:39,259 They have these really captivating 754 00:24:39,260 --> 00:24:42,439 eyes, as is their namesake. 755 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,099 That's fun to watch. 756 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:45,419 And they fight different than a 757 00:24:45,420 --> 00:24:47,299 panfish. And they taste different 758 00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:48,719 than panfish, too. 759 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:49,939 Being able to put all of those 760 00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:52,099 components together 761 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:53,639 just makes them different, right? 762 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,779 I mean, when you think about the 763 00:24:54,780 --> 00:24:57,099 loss of walleye, would that be more 764 00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,219 painful economically or more painful 765 00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:00,220 culturally? 766 00:25:01,420 --> 00:25:03,599 Man, yeah, I mean, 767 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,919 I think both, frankly. 768 00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:08,319 We know that a lot of anglers 769 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,199 in this area specifically 770 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,939 fish to target walleye, right? 771 00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:13,419 So there would be a tremendous 772 00:25:13,420 --> 00:25:15,419 economic loss 773 00:25:15,420 --> 00:25:17,279 if we lost walleye angling 774 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,280 opportunities. 775 00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:21,439 But culturally is 776 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,719 almost more of a loss in 777 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,019 my opinion, both 778 00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:27,539 for the communities that 779 00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:29,399 historically have had 780 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,739 a lot of importance placed on 781 00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:31,740 walleye. 782 00:25:32,670 --> 00:25:34,569 But also for those who haven't 783 00:25:34,570 --> 00:25:36,129 experienced angling for them yet, 784 00:25:36,130 --> 00:25:37,329 right? 785 00:25:37,330 --> 00:25:39,229 I want future generations to 786 00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:40,409 be able to catch walleye and 787 00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:41,949 experience the same thing I did as a 788 00:25:41,950 --> 00:25:43,769 kid when 789 00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:45,549 they're going out fishing for them. 790 00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:47,829 So best-case scenario, 791 00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:49,549 how many years in the future before 792 00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:51,609 it's realistic to see farm 793 00:25:51,610 --> 00:25:53,149 raised while I available in this 794 00:25:53,150 --> 00:25:54,150 place? 795 00:25:54,419 --> 00:25:55,940 Best case scenario, 796 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,199 you can actually buy farm-raised 797 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,319 walleye right now if you want. 798 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,019 There's now three 799 00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,939 walleye aquaculture 800 00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:07,379 operations in the state that we're 801 00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:09,839 helping get started and supporting, 802 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,019 and hopefully that just builds 803 00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:14,059 to the point where you 804 00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:15,919 can go to your supermarket or your 805 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,159 fish fry at your local restaurant 806 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,619 and get walleye that were raised 807 00:26:19,620 --> 00:26:20,620 right here Wisconsin. 808 00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:23,979 And maybe that'll happen in the next 809 00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:26,539 five years, maybe 10 years. 810 00:26:26,540 --> 00:26:28,119 It's also possible it'll never 811 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,379 happen and never take off. 812 00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:31,239 There's a lot of challenges facing 813 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,979 aquaculture in the state that 814 00:26:33,980 --> 00:26:35,999 are independent of the species being 815 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:37,919 raised. So we hope 816 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,259 that the research that we're doing 817 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:41,219 is gonna help make this 818 00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:43,499 more possible, but that's 819 00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,479 the risk of doing this 820 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,499 research on a brand 821 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:49,339 new species for aquaculture is that 822 00:26:49,340 --> 00:26:50,869 it might not work out. 823 00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:52,549 So what is it for you to come to 824 00:26:52,550 --> 00:26:54,569 work here when you see 825 00:26:54,570 --> 00:26:56,389 the eggs, I mean, 826 00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:57,709 you verbalize the eggs. 827 00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:58,929 You're stripping the eggs and then 828 00:26:58,930 --> 00:26:59,789 you see them. 829 00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:01,689 I mean does it sound weird to say is 830 00:27:01,690 --> 00:27:02,990 there an attachment to these fish? 831 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:06,139 Um, no, it doesn't, it's not weird 832 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:07,539 to say that there's an attachment to 833 00:27:07,540 --> 00:27:09,479 these fish because it's a 834 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,819 very hands-on and involved process 835 00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:13,739 and myself and 836 00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,159 the other staff here at NADF 837 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,999 are, are very involved 838 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,379 in that process. 839 00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:21,439 As you said, everything from 840 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,559 spawning these fish and 841 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,119 taking care of them through the 842 00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:27,679 larval culture period, um, 843 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:28,979 raising them up to the age where 844 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:30,979 they're reproductively mature, we 845 00:27:30,980 --> 00:27:32,879 have to help them at every 846 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:33,880 step of that. 847 00:27:35,050 --> 00:27:37,109 Journey and yeah as a result 848 00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:39,149 we have a lot of investment 849 00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:41,309 and feel a lot of kind of pride 850 00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:43,589 in the fish that we've helped raise 851 00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:45,409 and the studies and research that 852 00:27:45,410 --> 00:27:46,429 we're doing to help make it 853 00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:47,039 possible. 854 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,399 So when you're draining the ponds, 855 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,679 because you really don't know what's 856 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,659 in there, what's that day like for 857 00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:53,619 you? 858 00:27:53,620 --> 00:27:55,029 Hey, there's fish! 859 00:27:55,030 --> 00:27:56,929 It's tremendously stressful because 860 00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:59,509 a lot of work has gone into 861 00:27:59,510 --> 00:28:02,009 raising 862 00:28:02,010 --> 00:28:03,829 those walleye before we get to that 863 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:05,289 stage where we're harvesting those 864 00:28:05,290 --> 00:28:07,129 ponds. And you don't get to see what 865 00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:08,929 the results of all that labor and 866 00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:11,169 work is until that day when you 867 00:28:11,170 --> 00:28:12,409 start training. 868 00:28:12,410 --> 00:28:14,389 So it's very stressful and 869 00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:16,289 hopefully very rewarding, but we've 870 00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:17,929 had years where it's been very 871 00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:19,389 disappointing too, and that's just 872 00:28:19,390 --> 00:28:21,089 how it goes. 873 00:28:21,090 --> 00:28:22,409 That's how it is raising fish 874 00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:23,729 generally. 875 00:28:23,730 --> 00:28:25,089 But there's also a lot of 876 00:28:25,090 --> 00:28:26,749 volunteers, the community that gets 877 00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:28,269 built around this. 878 00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:29,809 That's one of the great parts of it 879 00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:32,149 is we 880 00:28:32,150 --> 00:28:34,229 try to set up our 881 00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:36,089 harvest days and stocking 882 00:28:36,090 --> 00:28:38,229 days in a way that the community 883 00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:40,489 can make that connection with 884 00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:42,689 the work that Red Cliff 885 00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:44,249 Treaty National Resources and 886 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:45,989 ourselves and Wisconsin DNR are 887 00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:46,990 doing. 888 00:28:47,890 --> 00:28:49,729 Oftentimes anglers don't get to 889 00:28:49,730 --> 00:28:51,389 have that hands-on experience with 890 00:28:51,390 --> 00:28:53,209 those fish, and I think it's really 891 00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:55,688 valuable when they're involved in. 892 00:28:55,689 --> 00:28:57,269 Collecting them out of the ponds, 893 00:28:57,270 --> 00:28:58,769 doing those fin clips, and putting 894 00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:00,069 them back into the lake that they're 895 00:29:00,070 --> 00:29:01,569 going to fish later that day, you 896 00:29:01,570 --> 00:29:03,309 know? That's a really unique 897 00:29:03,310 --> 00:29:04,989 experience that helps drive home the 898 00:29:04,990 --> 00:29:06,399 importance of it. 899 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,759 Different connection I'm sure for 900 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,219 them to know, hey I know there's 901 00:29:09,220 --> 00:29:10,169 fish in here. 902 00:29:10,170 --> 00:29:11,769 Yeah, and I might have handled that 903 00:29:11,770 --> 00:29:14,789 fish and gave it the fin clip before 904 00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:16,349 I catch it three years later. 905 00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:17,649 You know, that's a really cool 906 00:29:17,650 --> 00:29:18,559 connection. 907 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,419 What is that normal timeline for 908 00:29:20,420 --> 00:29:21,420 a fish up here? 909 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,899 Yeah I mean it's 910 00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:27,639 when we're stocking the fish that 911 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,219 were raised in the ponds or indoors 912 00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:30,759 we're generally stocking them at 913 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,319 eight or nine inches in 914 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,139 the October or November 915 00:29:35,140 --> 00:29:36,499 of the year that they were raised 916 00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:38,739 and it's 917 00:29:38,740 --> 00:29:40,699 potential or it's possible 918 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:43,699 that you would catch that fish in 919 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:45,599 two years after it was stocked 920 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,459 you know you might see that and 921 00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:49,319 it probably reproductively 922 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,239 mature three or four years 923 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:52,240 after that. 924 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,059 So some of those first fish 925 00:29:55,060 --> 00:29:57,279 are now reproducing, hopefully, 926 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,139 naturally, and they're 927 00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:00,140 some trophy fish. 928 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,459 Absolutely, yeah. You can go in Lake 929 00:30:02,460 --> 00:30:04,019 and Amacogon and catch, especially 930 00:30:04,020 --> 00:30:06,579 some of our earlier years of 931 00:30:06,580 --> 00:30:07,859 stocking, you can catch some of 932 00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:09,719 those fish right now, and if it has 933 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,199 a left or right ventral fin clip, 934 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,839 you know that it came from here as 935 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:14,840 part of that study. 936 00:30:17,490 --> 00:30:19,469 Alright, I think 937 00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:20,849 we're good here, if there's anything 938 00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:22,009 else you want to add. 939 00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:23,929 I would like it if you could get me 940 00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:26,109 some numbers, you can email that, 941 00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:26,969 it's probably easiest. 942 00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:28,250 Yeah, yeah, for the... 943 00:30:28,251 --> 00:30:29,219 For what we were able to do indoor 944 00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:30,869 and outdoor last year. 945 00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:32,869 And I actually have that for 946 00:30:32,870 --> 00:30:34,709 all five years, if you want. 947 00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:36,289 Oh, great to have. Yeah. 948 00:30:36,290 --> 00:30:37,290 And potentially, 949 00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:40,849 like I said, we'll be getting the 950 00:30:40,850 --> 00:30:42,689 returns. And I can try to 951 00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:44,409 analyze that data quickly so that 952 00:30:44,410 --> 00:30:45,949 you can have the results of that 953 00:30:45,950 --> 00:30:47,199 study to show. 954 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,159 I would say I'll be writing 955 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,619 this through 956 00:30:51,620 --> 00:30:53,659 May into June, 957 00:30:53,660 --> 00:30:55,099 but there can be...