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Alright, you can talk to me, don't

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worry about all of

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this. Yeah, sure.

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So I guess, let's go

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back to the beginning. You were born

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in Montello, right?

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Yes.

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And so did you grow up fishing?

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Was fishing something passed down to

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you?

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Yeah, I sure was.

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My dad liked to fish, and that's how

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I ended up in Montello, because he

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was from Kenosha.

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And his parents and

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his grandfather would come up here

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fishing,

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as tourists, back in the 1920s

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and 30s.

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So he met my mom in

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Montellos. She would net his fish.

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She was 13.

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And they ended up eventually

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falling in love, getting married,

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and then they moved.

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He moved to Montello after

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World War II.

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And so my mom's still there.

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Same house on the river.

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Yeah, she's 96.

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So yeah, it's kind of

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in my blood.

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So how did she end up, did she work

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at a resort or help down in the boat

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or she just met him and he took her

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away? Yeah.

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Yeah, well, her dad

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owned a big, he was lock tender at

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the locks at the dam there and then

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she would always be down there

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helping him and you know cleaning

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his rental boats and

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bailing water out of them because

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they're wood and they leaked and and

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that's how, you know, people shore

46
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fished and that is how she met my

47
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dad, so she would run around and net

48
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fish not just for him but for other

49
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people too, so Yeah,

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and I grew up there

51
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helping my grandfather then,

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her dad, doing the same stuff.

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Now, was walleye the big thing back

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then?

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Well, walleyes were a big thing, but

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it was a big catfish

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river, it was the Fox River,

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so a lot of catfish,

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crappies, some bass,

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smallmouth bass especially, and

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of course a good number of walleyess

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that would come out of Lake

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Puckaway, Lake Winnebago

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system.

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So growing up for you was fishing

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a diversion or was it like

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a passion?

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Oh, it was a passion.

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Yeah, I mean it was every day.

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It was 3

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a.m.

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And before school.

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It was all weekend.

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It's was all summer.

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So then you were telling before

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that you kind of came into

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your early life and trying to find a

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job, trying to start a family.

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Yeah.

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You know, what was

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fishing at that point in time?

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Was that like where you wanted to

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get to?

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Yeah, you know, after

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high school, I went to college and

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all that kind of stuff and I got

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drafted, Vietnam War thing going on

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and came back

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and I worked at a resort when I came

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back. Jobs are hard to find anyway

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so I thought well, if I'm going to

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work for that same amount of money,

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I'll work at a resort and then

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I became a fishing guide there.

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So that helped a lot.

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And I really enjoyed that, getting

97
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people on fish and teaching them how

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to fish. And

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Worked other jobs, did my freelance

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writing, started to do that.

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The freelance writing was

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really the big stepping stone

103
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because I got to meet

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people in the fishing industry,

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manufacturers, manufacturers'

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representatives, that kind of thing,

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and of course, pro-fishermen.

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Excuse me.

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Sorry about that.

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And, you

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know, people in the industry,

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manufacturers, representatives,

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pro-fishermen, and so on, and

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other writers,

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and resort owners,

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so just kind of

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Get it, get it.

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Yeah.

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Like I said,

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the other day I've been fighting a

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cold. Mm-hmm.

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I've not coughed all day.

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That didn't cost the whole time we

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were talking earlier.

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No worries.

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Oh

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You can keep a glass kind of

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by you if you want to.

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How about a cup?

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Where's my fishing haul of faith?

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That'll help.

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I hope.

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Want me to do that over.

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No, we'll just keep going

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from there.

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So you're kind of manufacturing

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your own path, in a way.

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Yeah, yeah, kind of.

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I love freelance writing and.

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Fortunate enough to be able to write

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for all of the big three magazines.

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What is it?

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Outdoor life, field and street

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sports field and then

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just little things, not a lot,

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but in those days it paid very

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well and then if you

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had photographs as well.

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So I was finally making a decent

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living and

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that, but I always wanted to be

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not interviewing tournament anglers,

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I wanted to interview, I

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want to be the angler, right?

155
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And so I started fishing bass

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tournaments, did well, I won the

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state championship.

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A one year and then.

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I met a guy who fished the walleye

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circuit and he said, hey, how would

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you like to fish the wall eye

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circuit?

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And I said, I can't afford it.

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And he said well, I got a boat, I've

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got this, I got that, we'll split

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the costs.

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So I paired up with him.

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We did really well, won three

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tournaments on the very first

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year.

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Sponsorships came and bam, then it

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really took off after that.

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Around what time was that?

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That was 1988-89.

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So you'd pick your juice, and that

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was... You...

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Wasn't immediate, right?

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Oh no, it sure wasn't,

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and I didn't know if it would ever

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happen.

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I didn't t expect it to.

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There was an opportunity.

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I did seize the opportunity

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and I set a goal,

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a five-year goal, and I thought, if

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I don't make these goals in

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five years, I'll get out.

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Made them in one year.

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So then you couldn't get out,

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because it was too fun, and

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it paid well.

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So yeah, so

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how how does a walleye

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professional walleye fisherman make

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a living is it mostly from?

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Sponsorships or is it from the

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tournament winnings or how does that

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happen?

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Yeah, at first it's a

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combination.

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Usually when you start out you don't

202
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have sponsorships or they're very

203
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small but it

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all helps.

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So then winnings really

206
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help.

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You gain notoriety,

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you get speaking engagements.

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You have to be willing to do them

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and that means traveling

211
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all over the United States,

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all winter long at sport shows and

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and giving seminars on walleye

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fishing.

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I liked doing that anyway,

216
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so whenever an opportunity

217
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was there, I would take it.

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And it's interesting because there

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again, they paid a lot for

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speakers.

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Professional walleye anglers were

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rare.

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Prior to the mid-80s,

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the only walleye pros

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were outdoor writers who

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fished with good walleye

227
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guides.

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So they knew how to do it and they

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would come into the shows and talk

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about it.

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There was no competitive walleye

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angling. Well, once that started and

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you proved yourself a winner,

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then you could get the stage

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time to go and talk about your

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winning tactics and things you do

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and how you learn and

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how to tweak things and just

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how to be a better angler.

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So for some of the people that would

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show up to this, were they hoping

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to be competitive anglers

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or were these just your average

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fishermen who just wanted to get a

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little better and catch the wall?

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Usually, most

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of the time it's guys that

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they want to be,

249
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they want to win.

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You talk to them, they compete

251
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:40,538
in a lot of stuff.

252
00:08:40,539 --> 00:08:42,979
They race in all of these cars.

253
00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:44,599
They do all that kind of stuff, dirt

254
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,799
bikes.

255
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,759
They're always racing.

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00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,719
But yeah, they're competitors so

257
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,659
that they do it for the competition.

258
00:08:51,660 --> 00:08:52,660
They want to win,

259
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,589
some want to do it to make a living.

260
00:08:56,590 --> 00:08:58,609
Some just do it because they enjoy

261
00:08:58,610 --> 00:09:00,529
the competition, but they

262
00:09:00,530 --> 00:09:02,309
maybe own their own business.

263
00:09:02,310 --> 00:09:04,169
I have some other job they can get

264
00:09:04,170 --> 00:09:06,649
away from, self-employed,

265
00:09:06,650 --> 00:09:07,650
whatever.

266
00:09:08,350 --> 00:09:10,489
They're never looking to become a

267
00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:12,009
full-time professional.

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00:09:12,010 --> 00:09:13,849
They don't want to speak at shows

269
00:09:13,850 --> 00:09:14,909
in the winter, and they want to go

270
00:09:14,910 --> 00:09:17,009
to Florida and fish all winter,

271
00:09:17,010 --> 00:09:20,249
get on their yachts, which

272
00:09:20,250 --> 00:09:21,809
is good, because if everybody wanted

273
00:09:21,810 --> 00:09:22,810
to do that,

274
00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:25,329
then water's down the whole field.

275
00:09:25,330 --> 00:09:26,899
So, uh...

276
00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:28,819
There's always a handful,

277
00:09:28,820 --> 00:09:30,299
and it's always the same guys,

278
00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:33,459
year after year after years,

279
00:09:33,460 --> 00:09:35,459
doing these circuits.

280
00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:37,439
And we would, a handful

281
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,918
of us would speak,

282
00:09:39,919 --> 00:09:41,799
and take a regular route, and

283
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:42,779
the next year we'd have a different

284
00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:43,979
route, and the third year another

285
00:09:43,980 --> 00:09:45,259
route, and then they're ready for

286
00:09:45,260 --> 00:09:46,260
you again,

287
00:09:47,380 --> 00:09:49,039
two or three years later.

288
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,859
And some sports shows would have you

289
00:09:50,860 --> 00:09:51,860
every year.

290
00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:56,419
How much of what percentage

291
00:09:56,420 --> 00:09:58,599
of your life was actual

292
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,519
tournaments versus talking about?

293
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,359
Yeah, well the

294
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,839
tournaments would run from mid-March

295
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,899
to October and

296
00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:10,199
then all the time after that

297
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,099
you're not tournament fishing.

298
00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:13,759
If that's your profession you've got

299
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,039
to make money in the winter and

300
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,059
of course that's most

301
00:10:18,060 --> 00:10:20,059
of it because March to October

302
00:10:20,060 --> 00:10:21,919
it's about half a year so you

303
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,159
got your other half is

304
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,939
speaking engagements period or

305
00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:28,939
guiding. A lot of guys still guided

306
00:10:28,940 --> 00:10:30,039
in between.

307
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,859
Guided late into the

308
00:10:31,860 --> 00:10:34,219
fall and early spring.

309
00:10:34,220 --> 00:10:36,099
I quit guiding

310
00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:38,139
three

311
00:10:38,140 --> 00:10:39,399
years into it.

312
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,079
I could just couldn't keep doing it

313
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,659
and mainly because I was fishing

314
00:10:42,660 --> 00:10:43,660
three circuits.

315
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,679
Once while I tournament circuits

316
00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:48,679
proved successful then

317
00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:49,939
all these other circuits started

318
00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:50,979
popping up.

319
00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:52,999
Bigger money, you know,

320
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,919
getting sponsorships from elsewhere

321
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,579
and longer travel.

322
00:10:57,580 --> 00:10:59,339
You know you weren't just Midwest

323
00:10:59,340 --> 00:11:00,340
anymore.

324
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,359
But if that was your profession,

325
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:04,199
that's what you did.

326
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,139
I mean, you just went where the

327
00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:06,140
tournaments were.

328
00:11:07,340 --> 00:11:09,699
And the paybacks were way better.

329
00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:11,239
Sponsors liked it.

330
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,439
So the more you did,

331
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,339
the more your got paid to do it.

332
00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:16,620
That's kind of how it works.

333
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,539
And then the rest of the time of the

334
00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:21,319
year, you're promoting sponsors

335
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,899
during your seminars.

336
00:11:24,890 --> 00:11:26,849
So for you, did you get

337
00:11:26,850 --> 00:11:29,009
a chance to come back to Wisconsin

338
00:11:29,010 --> 00:11:30,929
and fish here, or was that

339
00:11:30,930 --> 00:11:32,610
kind of lost to you for a time?

340
00:11:33,630 --> 00:11:35,169
Oh, I was really lost.

341
00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:37,169
The only time I fished in Wisconsin

342
00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:38,229
was when there was a tournament

343
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:39,230
here.

344
00:11:40,050 --> 00:11:41,869
We would come, I would, like

345
00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:43,089
I said, fish in two or three

346
00:11:43,090 --> 00:11:45,289
circuits, one time three.

347
00:11:45,290 --> 00:11:47,269
I did 19 tournaments

348
00:11:47,270 --> 00:11:49,489
that year,

349
00:11:49,490 --> 00:11:50,690
not counting the championships.

350
00:11:52,029 --> 00:11:54,069
So my wife and I, she would travel

351
00:11:54,070 --> 00:11:55,729
with me and help me out, she was

352
00:11:55,730 --> 00:11:57,849
kind of my jack of all trades and

353
00:11:57,850 --> 00:11:59,949
she would take care of all the side

354
00:11:59,950 --> 00:12:00,950
distractions that I'd...

355
00:12:02,130 --> 00:12:03,229
Didn't want to have to do.

356
00:12:03,230 --> 00:12:05,309
I wanted to focus on fishing.

357
00:12:05,310 --> 00:12:06,969
So she would take care of all that.

358
00:12:08,510 --> 00:12:09,309
And uh...

359
00:12:09,310 --> 00:12:11,809
So yeah, when I came home

360
00:12:11,810 --> 00:12:13,549
all I did was get the boat ready for

361
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:14,589
the next tournament.

362
00:12:14,590 --> 00:12:15,949
I didn't even have time to fish

363
00:12:15,950 --> 00:12:17,289
here.

364
00:12:17,290 --> 00:12:18,509
But if the tournament was on

365
00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:20,910
Winnebago, if it was in Green Bay,

366
00:12:22,930 --> 00:12:24,829
Pete and Will Flowage, kind of the

367
00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:26,309
most popular places for walleye

368
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:27,830
tournaments, yeah, then I fished.

369
00:12:31,410 --> 00:12:33,369
Our documentary is talking about

370
00:12:33,370 --> 00:12:35,449
walleye in Wisconsin as

371
00:12:35,450 --> 00:12:37,409
a significant cultural species

372
00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:39,349
also connected to economy

373
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:42,029
and tourism and tournaments.

374
00:12:42,030 --> 00:12:43,969
So for you, did walleye

375
00:12:43,970 --> 00:12:46,009
still hold a special place or

376
00:12:46,010 --> 00:12:48,129
once it became like a livelihood did

377
00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:49,130
it kind of shift?

378
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,419
That's a great question.

379
00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:54,459
Walleye, because I grew up fishing

380
00:12:54,460 --> 00:12:56,319
walleyes in the Fox River.

381
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,159
They're like the golden boy of the

382
00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,319
fishery, you know? I mean,

383
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,599
everybody, the elusive

384
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,599
wiley walleye, that's all we ever

385
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,499
read about or heard about,

386
00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:07,679
and how hard they were to catch.

387
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:09,559
And they were never hard for

388
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,799
me to catch, I never bought

389
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,759
that. I never thought, why

390
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,079
do people keep saying that?

391
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,619
Because it's not true, but

392
00:13:17,620 --> 00:13:19,399
for a lot of people, they can be.

393
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:24,029
They're a special fish and

394
00:13:24,030 --> 00:13:27,109
yes, when I would come home,

395
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:28,929
we have a walleye run here in

396
00:13:28,930 --> 00:13:30,809
March up the Fox River and

397
00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:32,329
I would always fish that and there

398
00:13:32,330 --> 00:13:34,189
would always be a smaller run in the

399
00:13:34,190 --> 00:13:36,409
fall and I'd fish that.

400
00:13:36,410 --> 00:13:37,989
And I'd do some walleye fishing on

401
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:40,029
Big Green Lake because I

402
00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:41,789
guided for walleyes there.

403
00:13:42,810 --> 00:13:45,189
So Lake Puckaway, same way.

404
00:13:45,190 --> 00:13:46,589
I quit fishing in the Wisconsin

405
00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:48,209
River because I just didn't need to

406
00:13:48,210 --> 00:13:49,429
go there because I could catch them

407
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:50,430
elsewhere.

408
00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:53,439
Fishing all over the U.S.

409
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,179
Made me a better angler here,

410
00:13:56,180 --> 00:13:57,999
but fishing here made

411
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,979
me way better anglers elsewhere.

412
00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:03,279
And I think that's why the Wisconsin

413
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,359
Tournament anglers,

414
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,379
especially, were so good

415
00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:09,459
on the professional walleye trail.

416
00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:11,299
I mean, we just outshined

417
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:14,059
everybody, almost everybody,

418
00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:15,959
just because of our

419
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,659
knowledge of fishing on this

420
00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:19,139
Winnebago system.

421
00:14:19,140 --> 00:14:20,179
Tough system.

422
00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:21,399
But once you've got to figure it

423
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,420
out, man, it's so good, you know?

424
00:14:24,669 --> 00:14:25,989
So that's the key.

425
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:27,629
If you can fish them here, you can

426
00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:28,639
do it anywhere.

427
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,559
Yeah, I believe that, and well,

428
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,499
I've proved it, and so have

429
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,629
several other anglers, so yeah.

430
00:14:34,630 --> 00:14:36,849
So you have the ultimate home

431
00:14:36,850 --> 00:14:38,570
field test, a home field advantage.

432
00:14:40,450 --> 00:14:42,569
Absolutely, and you know,

433
00:14:42,570 --> 00:14:44,489
even yet, when I catch a walleye

434
00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:47,089
today, I mean, I

435
00:14:47,090 --> 00:14:49,129
just marvel at that fish.

436
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:51,869
It's just a very special fish,

437
00:14:51,870 --> 00:14:53,789
and I never took it for

438
00:14:53,790 --> 00:14:54,889
granted.

439
00:14:54,890 --> 00:14:56,069
I mean I could catch, there were

440
00:14:56,070 --> 00:14:57,209
places you could go and catch 100

441
00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:58,429
walleyes a day.

442
00:14:58,430 --> 00:14:59,629
You know, those fisheries in North

443
00:14:59,630 --> 00:15:01,989
America are that good,

444
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:04,209
and even in a half a day sometimes,

445
00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:06,089
it's so plentiful, but you

446
00:15:06,090 --> 00:15:07,989
never got tired of it.

447
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:09,529
And never got tired of going the

448
00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:11,249
next day and catching some more fish

449
00:15:11,250 --> 00:15:13,229
and catching those walleyes.

450
00:15:13,230 --> 00:15:14,989
And it didn't matter if they were 10

451
00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:16,969
pounds or 10 inches.

452
00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:18,909
You know, it's just, not for me

453
00:15:18,910 --> 00:15:20,629
anyway, for some people maybe, but

454
00:15:20,630 --> 00:15:22,329
not for my. It's just a special

455
00:15:22,330 --> 00:15:23,330
fish.

456
00:15:24,890 --> 00:15:27,129
What's it like to have

457
00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:28,849
a walleye on?

458
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:30,709
Is it the anticipation for you

459
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:32,109
of like when they're about to or

460
00:15:32,110 --> 00:15:33,669
setting the hook or is it when you

461
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:34,729
get them in the boat?

462
00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:36,409
What are the different moments in

463
00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:37,410
that action?

464
00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:41,349
Yeah, I'm a caster.

465
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:43,129
So I'm casting baits out,

466
00:15:43,130 --> 00:15:44,269
retrieving.

467
00:15:44,270 --> 00:15:46,089
I mean, I catch, obviously I have to

468
00:15:46,090 --> 00:15:48,169
learn how to catch walleyes in every

469
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:50,689
method to be a professional.

470
00:15:50,690 --> 00:15:53,149
You can't just use one thing or you

471
00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:54,210
get a lot of zeros.

472
00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:57,129
So I had to learn these other

473
00:15:57,130 --> 00:15:59,109
methods, but my favorite is casting.

474
00:15:59,110 --> 00:16:00,969
It's usually casting a jig,

475
00:16:00,970 --> 00:16:02,789
pitching it out, working along

476
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:04,489
the bottom. When you feel.

477
00:16:07,930 --> 00:16:09,849
It's just something special, it's

478
00:16:09,850 --> 00:16:12,289
just like that.

479
00:16:12,290 --> 00:16:14,009
You know right away what it is.

480
00:16:15,070 --> 00:16:17,189
And I know a lot of fish bites,

481
00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:19,089
a small mouth bite like that,

482
00:16:19,090 --> 00:16:20,569
and a large mouth bite, and a pike

483
00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:21,789
bite.

484
00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:23,769
But you can, if you're caught enough

485
00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:25,409
and done enough, you can tell.

486
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:27,349
And just feeling that.

487
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:29,649
I mean, it's exciting.

488
00:16:29,650 --> 00:16:31,549
The most exciting thing for

489
00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:33,389
me in fishing is the bite.

490
00:16:34,569 --> 00:16:36,489
It was the same way muskie

491
00:16:36,490 --> 00:16:37,289
fishing.

492
00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:39,289
Bass fishing top water,

493
00:16:39,290 --> 00:16:41,489
that's the most exciting thing.

494
00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:42,769
Actually, finding and catching a

495
00:16:42,770 --> 00:16:43,869
fish is no big deal.

496
00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:46,009
That's all part of the stick, but

497
00:16:46,010 --> 00:16:47,869
feeling that bite is

498
00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:49,429
so cool.

499
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:51,249
This just, it sends such a rush, you

500
00:16:51,250 --> 00:16:52,250
know?

501
00:16:53,050 --> 00:16:54,349
And it's, and walleye's way more

502
00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:56,169
subtle than those other fish,

503
00:16:56,170 --> 00:16:57,949
but maybe that's what makes it so

504
00:16:57,950 --> 00:16:59,049
much better.

505
00:16:59,050 --> 00:17:00,389
And because they're in the perch

506
00:17:00,390 --> 00:17:02,409
family, perch bite the same

507
00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:04,999
way, even more subtle.

508
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,118
So I love to fish perch

509
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,078
with jigs the same way, just

510
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:11,879
to feel that little tap and

511
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,759
yeah, that's

512
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,639
the deal. It's like, what's

513
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,539
the best part about bobber fishing?

514
00:17:17,540 --> 00:17:18,739
When the bobber goes down,

515
00:17:19,819 --> 00:17:20,598
the same thing.

516
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,078
And I still get excited about that

517
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:23,479
when I fish with bobbers, so.

518
00:17:24,589 --> 00:17:26,588
So I mean, could you have

519
00:17:26,589 --> 00:17:28,489
been as successful as you

520
00:17:28,490 --> 00:17:30,349
have been without still

521
00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:31,420
enjoying every part of it?

522
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,319
No, I don't think so.

523
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,299
I don't think so, I mean, yeah,

524
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:38,300
it's a job.

525
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:40,700
I never,

526
00:17:41,580 --> 00:17:43,499
I dunno, every fish I caught,

527
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,579
even if it wasn't a keeper,

528
00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:47,459
you know, even it wasn't

529
00:17:47,460 --> 00:17:48,460
a money fish,

530
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,799
it was just, it just, wow.

531
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,439
You know, it' just that wow factor

532
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:54,440
every time.

533
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,359
It care and just

534
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:01,399
throw it you know I would never do

535
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,759
that, just drop them over the side

536
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,419
and let them go, because that fish

537
00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:05,420
is special.

538
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:07,359
I mean, you know, that's ten years

539
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,219
from now he's that ten pounder, you

540
00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:10,220
know.

541
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,419
Why, why didn't you go into

542
00:18:13,420 --> 00:18:15,419
small mouth is that you know bass

543
00:18:15,420 --> 00:18:16,979
tournaments are what a lot of people

544
00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:19,079
most average non-fisherman

545
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,259
They've heard of big bass

546
00:18:20,260 --> 00:18:21,659
tournaments. You see on tv.

547
00:18:21,660 --> 00:18:23,719
Oh, yeah But it seems like that's

548
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:24,579
where the money would be.

549
00:18:24,580 --> 00:18:25,580
So why?

550
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:28,689
That's totally where the money is

551
00:18:28,690 --> 00:18:31,409
and still is and

552
00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:33,349
But the money started to come

553
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:36,109
into the wall, I think in

554
00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:38,649
a lady in a late 1980s

555
00:18:38,650 --> 00:18:40,729
and I thought well,

556
00:18:40,730 --> 00:18:41,790
this isn't bass

557
00:18:42,990 --> 00:18:45,009
And I would and I always

558
00:18:45,010 --> 00:18:46,309
wanted to be a bass guy.

559
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:48,869
I mean, you know those guys

560
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:50,689
They had the TV shows

561
00:18:50,690 --> 00:18:52,669
on and a lot of those guys actually

562
00:18:52,670 --> 00:18:54,369
are friends of mine today because

563
00:18:54,370 --> 00:18:56,719
we're all the industry, but

564
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,619
But they would always tease me

565
00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:00,519
that I was fishing those

566
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:01,439
walleyes.

567
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:02,319
And they would say, you're never

568
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,419
going to make any money doing that.

569
00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:06,679
Why don't you get into the bass?

570
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,519
But that's an expensive

571
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,619
deal. I mean, you just,

572
00:19:11,620 --> 00:19:13,439
yeah. And just to get through all

573
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,279
the qualifying and stuff to

574
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,639
do it is brutal.

575
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,019
But there are guys that, they're

576
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:19,879
still doing it.

577
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,699
These young guys today are just

578
00:19:21,700 --> 00:19:23,159
amazing how they've come in.

579
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,059
We've had some in our own state here

580
00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:26,359
that have done great.

581
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,759
You know, fishing all over the

582
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,200
country for bass.

583
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:33,139
Had the walleye thing

584
00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:35,360
not panned out,

585
00:19:36,620 --> 00:19:38,679
say the money was never there, I

586
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,959
couldn't tell you if I would have

587
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,639
gotten into bass or not.

588
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:42,899
I may have probably just kept

589
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:45,239
freelance writing, guiding,

590
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,259
you know doing both because

591
00:19:47,260 --> 00:19:49,219
it was something I

592
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:50,699
liked and it was easy and it here

593
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:53,179
and you know

594
00:19:53,180 --> 00:19:54,539
didn't have a lot of expenses.

595
00:19:55,740 --> 00:19:57,899
Tournament fishing is expensive.

596
00:19:57,900 --> 00:19:59,999
I mean, even in

597
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,859
the 90s, you're dropping

598
00:20:01,860 --> 00:20:03,739
25 to 35,000

599
00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:04,599
a year.

600
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,639
And that was a lot of money back

601
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,519
then.

602
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,679
If you didn't have the sponsors,

603
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:10,739
it was coming out of your own

604
00:20:10,740 --> 00:20:11,740
pocket.

605
00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:13,819
You couldn't sustain that if you

606
00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:15,759
weren't good, you know, if you just

607
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:16,959
showed up and fished.

608
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,279
So you really had to

609
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,259
perform. It's a performance

610
00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:22,319
sport.

611
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,599
Well, you were talking about that

612
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,179
before about how much of it is

613
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:26,999
mental comparing it I

614
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,919
mean it is interesting that

615
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,459
you've heard people talk about pro

616
00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:32,199
athletes And there's a lot more

617
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,779
people that have the same physical

618
00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:35,379
qualifications, right, but they may

619
00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:36,500
not have the right makeup

620
00:20:37,580 --> 00:20:39,139
Well, yeah, you see that all the

621
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:40,619
time. I mean, if you watch a lot of

622
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:42,839
sports, you see an athlete

623
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,639
and you see so many guys who are

624
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,059
husband trophy winners know that

625
00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:48,839
they had the physical skill,

626
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,439
but they didn't have

627
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,279
what we call it, they didn't have

628
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,239
it. They just couldn't make

629
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,539
it work with

630
00:20:57,540 --> 00:20:58,859
a team.

631
00:20:58,860 --> 00:21:00,679
Now granted, fishing's not a team

632
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:01,680
sport.

633
00:21:03,060 --> 00:21:05,459
Well, it can be, but

634
00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:06,619
most of the time it's not.

635
00:21:06,620 --> 00:21:08,459
So it's individual.

636
00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:10,479
It's you against the fish,

637
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,699
you against yourself and you

638
00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:15,419
can't control anything anybody else

639
00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:17,919
is doing you just have to

640
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,619
focus on what you're doing so

641
00:21:20,620 --> 00:21:22,559
the longer you stay in the

642
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,599
game mentally the better chance you

643
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,679
have and and but you

644
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,619
still got to have the skills

645
00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:30,459
you just can't say

646
00:21:30,460 --> 00:21:32,339
well I'm a jig fisherman

647
00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:34,169
I hate trolling.

648
00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:35,529
Period, that's me.

649
00:21:35,530 --> 00:21:36,849
Okay, I'm a jake fisherman, I hate

650
00:21:36,850 --> 00:21:38,750
trolling. That was me in 1988.

651
00:21:40,190 --> 00:21:41,190
By 1995,

652
00:21:42,650 --> 00:21:44,649
I had, look, I gotta learn

653
00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:46,669
how to do this because we're on

654
00:21:46,670 --> 00:21:48,589
more and more lakes where you troll.

655
00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:50,549
I gotta learned how to fish bottom

656
00:21:50,550 --> 00:21:52,169
bouncers and spinner rigs, I got to

657
00:21:52,170 --> 00:21:54,329
learn how to fish slip bottom rigs

658
00:21:54,330 --> 00:21:56,409
and have the patience to

659
00:21:56,410 --> 00:21:59,009
do it, which is a whole mental game.

660
00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:00,909
And I learned all

661
00:22:00,910 --> 00:22:02,069
those things, I won tournaments

662
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:03,399
doing all those thing.

663
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,400
And had I not been versatile,

664
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,519
I would have maybe won

665
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,999
one or two tournaments doing

666
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,060
it the way I like.

667
00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:15,319
That don't pay the bills.

668
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:18,599
I mean, if you're independently

669
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:19,959
wealthy, you don't care, fine, do

670
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,960
your stick.

671
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,220
But then what are you going to do?

672
00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:26,199
If I'm going to a sports show

673
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,709
and do a seminar.

674
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:30,049
And somebody in the audience says,

675
00:22:30,050 --> 00:22:32,029
how do you work planer boards?

676
00:22:32,030 --> 00:22:35,109
How much line do you set back on

677
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:37,009
a floating bait, floating wrap

678
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:38,869
law, for example, with a small lip?

679
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:40,229
How deep does it go?

680
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:41,309
You've got to answer those

681
00:22:41,310 --> 00:22:43,189
questions. If you want to continue

682
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:45,029
to excel in the

683
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:46,369
sport, you've got know this stuff.

684
00:22:47,370 --> 00:22:49,349
And a lot of guys didn't want

685
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:50,309
to learn it.

686
00:22:50,310 --> 00:22:52,209
I don't like doing that, so I'm

687
00:22:52,210 --> 00:22:53,210
not going to learn.

688
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,239
So you guided for quite a few years

689
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,240
before that.

690
00:22:58,100 --> 00:22:59,619
What's the experience like as a

691
00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:01,999
guide? I guess what's the,

692
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,439
these are different roles of how

693
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,399
people see a guide.

694
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,119
Like I'll take you there and show

695
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:07,559
you versus I'll give you an

696
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:08,560
experience.

697
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:10,120
Yeah,

698
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,879
I had a real love-hate relationship

699
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,939
with Guiding because

700
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:18,239
you book a guide trip,

701
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,879
they want to go.

702
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,019
And they don't care if the wind's

703
00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:23,059
blowing, if it's raining,

704
00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:25,019
snowing, and you don't

705
00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:26,899
want to. You were beat up

706
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:28,219
all day the day before.

707
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:31,599
With Guiding, you

708
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,899
have an eight-hour day in

709
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:35,859
the boat with

710
00:23:35,860 --> 00:23:37,559
two clients.

711
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,199
Okay, so you get up.

712
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,959
At 4 a.m.

713
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:42,099
Get everything ready, get everything

714
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:43,979
going, get the bait, get the tackle,

715
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:45,899
meet them at the ramp.

716
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:47,880
They're all fired up, okay.

717
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,620
They've had breakfast, you have, and

718
00:23:50,621 --> 00:23:52,299
you grab some coffee, a quick trip

719
00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:53,999
or whatever, you know, and a

720
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,839
horrible donut, and

721
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,840
that's your breakfast.

722
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:58,779
They're fired up. They get out

723
00:23:58,780 --> 00:24:01,259
there, they fish. You fish all day.

724
00:24:01,260 --> 00:24:03,219
Fish may not be doing so well,

725
00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:04,999
cold front, whatever, and so you

726
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,819
have to make them feel like

727
00:24:06,820 --> 00:24:08,339
they're having a good time, having a

728
00:24:08,340 --> 00:24:09,340
good experience.

729
00:24:10,030 --> 00:24:12,109
You have to have a

730
00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:14,069
whole lifetime of stories

731
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:16,210
to tell, to share with them.

732
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:19,009
People in common that you might

733
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:20,869
know, that you can tell stories

734
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:23,309
about, and it's

735
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:24,989
all way more than just sitting there

736
00:24:24,990 --> 00:24:26,789
like a bump on a log all day in the

737
00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:28,549
boat and not talking and moving

738
00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:30,249
around the places.

739
00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:31,089
You got to know your lake.

740
00:24:31,090 --> 00:24:32,229
You got know the techniques.

741
00:24:32,230 --> 00:24:34,049
You got be willing to say,

742
00:24:34,050 --> 00:24:35,529
look guys, walleyes aren't going to

743
00:24:35,530 --> 00:24:37,109
bite, and this for us so bad.

744
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:38,110
Let's go.

745
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,459
You want to catch something, let's

746
00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:41,299
go fish northerns or something.

747
00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:42,159
Yeah, well, it's better than

748
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,539
nothing. Then you go out and you

749
00:24:43,540 --> 00:24:45,319
catch 20 northerners and a couple of

750
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,239
big giant ones.

751
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,599
They had a great day.

752
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,039
They didn't get their walleyes, but

753
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,320
they still had a good day.

754
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,880
Then there's the no-fish days.

755
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:57,119
I guaranteed fish.

756
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,219
So if I had a no-fishing day

757
00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:01,299
with clients, I would say,

758
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:02,479
look, it is guaranteed.

759
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,599
Come back.

760
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,899
We'll do this again.

761
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:06,099
I said, this is not going to happen

762
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:08,669
twice. So and

763
00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:10,109
Some would take me up on it, some

764
00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:11,489
wouldn't, you know.

765
00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:12,829
And I always felt bad.

766
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:14,809
I always feel like I let them down,

767
00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:16,669
you know, as

768
00:25:16,670 --> 00:25:17,670
a guide.

769
00:25:18,830 --> 00:25:20,769
And yeah, it's a

770
00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:21,849
hard job.

771
00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:24,869
And you drop them off,

772
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:25,889
OK?

773
00:25:25,890 --> 00:25:27,129
Then they've got fish.

774
00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:27,969
They want you to help them clean

775
00:25:27,970 --> 00:25:29,369
them. So you help clean the fish.

776
00:25:29,370 --> 00:25:30,569
Then they want to have lunch, supper

777
00:25:30,570 --> 00:25:31,749
with you. They want to buy you

778
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:32,749
supper.

779
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,729
And then you maybe sit around

780
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:36,389
and have a few beverages.

781
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:37,949
And you get home at 10 o'clock at

782
00:25:37,950 --> 00:25:39,249
night. And you got to charge

783
00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:40,669
batteries. You got to get paid for

784
00:25:40,670 --> 00:25:41,509
the next day.

785
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:43,009
You got everything all cleaned up

786
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:44,589
because you got two new people the

787
00:25:44,590 --> 00:25:45,549
next thing.

788
00:25:45,550 --> 00:25:47,629
I don't know how these guys do

789
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:48,509
it.

790
00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:50,449
I mean, I did it and it

791
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:52,109
was hard and I know guys that do it

792
00:25:52,110 --> 00:25:54,049
and they just love it.

793
00:25:54,050 --> 00:25:56,029
Every day they go, here we go, let's

794
00:25:56,030 --> 00:25:56,809
go get some fish.

795
00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:58,389
I'm like, and they won't even get to

796
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:59,309
fish.

797
00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:01,029
Like I didn't fish.

798
00:26:01,030 --> 00:26:02,929
I let them fish.

799
00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:04,709
I only fish to show them how to, you

800
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:06,599
know, how to do it

801
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,479
So then you're not even fishing, so

802
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:09,480
man, it's wicked.

803
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,579
So that's why you did it when you

804
00:26:12,580 --> 00:26:14,239
needed to pay some bills.

805
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,699
Tournament fishing was way more fun,

806
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:18,559
believe me, although guiding you

807
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,039
meet so many cool people and

808
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,319
you get repeat customers like crazy,

809
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,339
you know.

810
00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:26,379
There's got to be a joy that comes

811
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:27,999
from giving them an experience when

812
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:28,589
they have those

813
00:26:28,590 --> 00:26:30,189
Oh, for sure.

814
00:26:30,190 --> 00:26:33,089
My favorite was guiding, you know,

815
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:34,489
dad and his son or dad and his

816
00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:36,589
daughter, the kids getting the fish.

817
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:38,469
I mean, those were special.

818
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:40,569
I tried to do more of that than

819
00:26:40,570 --> 00:26:41,570
adults.

820
00:26:42,490 --> 00:26:44,029
I'm sure you get a lot of guys that

821
00:26:44,030 --> 00:26:45,449
think they know a lot and they're

822
00:26:45,450 --> 00:26:47,049
there to learn where's the good

823
00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:48,089
spot, I'll have to pay them next

824
00:26:48,090 --> 00:26:49,090
time, right?

825
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:51,519
Yeah, one of the toughest

826
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,339
is you get them on

827
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:54,759
good fish, you go the next day and

828
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,779
they're there with their buddies and

829
00:26:56,780 --> 00:26:57,919
their boats. You can't even get

830
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,999
there fishing with your clients,

831
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,059
yeah. That happens to them,

832
00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:04,079
but it's part of

833
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,080
the deal.

834
00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:09,079
Did you, did you also eat wildlife?

835
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,080
I mean, was that ever- Oh heck yeah.

836
00:27:11,379 --> 00:27:13,279
Yeah, still do.

837
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,419
Yeah, every chance I get.

838
00:27:15,420 --> 00:27:17,219
I fish walleyes a little now.

839
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:18,380
I don't fish them a lot.

840
00:27:21,630 --> 00:27:23,689
There's just my wife and I,

841
00:27:23,690 --> 00:27:25,709
and one 18-inch

842
00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:26,710
walleye is a meal.

843
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:29,649
I don't need five.

844
00:27:29,650 --> 00:27:30,849
I don't need three.

845
00:27:32,850 --> 00:27:34,909
So just get one for

846
00:27:34,910 --> 00:27:36,789
a meal, and next time she wants a

847
00:27:36,790 --> 00:27:37,829
walleye, go get another one.

848
00:27:39,140 --> 00:27:40,159
It's kind of like the permanent

849
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,709
freezer, right? It's always stock.

850
00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:43,729
Yeah, you get them fresh,

851
00:27:43,730 --> 00:27:44,730
you know.

852
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,539
But what is it about walleye

853
00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:49,699
eating them that's different than

854
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:50,700
other fish?

855
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,039
Uh, yeah, they're, they are flaky.

856
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,839
I mean, they, they uh, they more

857
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,379
solid.

858
00:27:57,380 --> 00:27:59,619
Uh, I really think actually

859
00:27:59,620 --> 00:28:01,180
Northern pike are just as good.

860
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:05,000
A lot of people don't think so, I

861
00:28:05,001 --> 00:28:06,359
do.

862
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:08,480
I eat both, still do.

863
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,799
And there's this whole stigma around

864
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,520
the walleye, you know.

865
00:28:16,660 --> 00:28:18,059
The price of them in a restaurant,

866
00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:18,959
for example.

867
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,999
Some people think, you know, if I'm

868
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,659
paying 20 bucks for a meal of

869
00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:24,619
walleyes, it must really taste good.

870
00:28:24,620 --> 00:28:25,779
Oh yeah, it's delicious.

871
00:28:25,780 --> 00:28:27,720
And they take, it sits in here.

872
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,019
Well, that's interesting because

873
00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:34,039
there is a lot of mystique

874
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,940
around walleye in Wisconsin.

875
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,199
What's the history of that?

876
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,059
Where did all that, how did that

877
00:28:40,060 --> 00:28:41,999
culture get built up around this one

878
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,000
fish?

879
00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:45,609
Well, I think the

880
00:28:45,610 --> 00:28:48,169
guides perpetrated

881
00:28:48,170 --> 00:28:50,589
a lot of that, mainly because

882
00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:52,409
they

883
00:28:52,410 --> 00:28:54,369
can be tough to catch for

884
00:28:54,370 --> 00:28:55,410
the average fisherman.

885
00:28:57,410 --> 00:28:59,449
They don't act all the time,

886
00:28:59,450 --> 00:29:01,109
they're not as predictable as other

887
00:29:01,110 --> 00:29:02,210
fish for one thing.

888
00:29:03,290 --> 00:29:05,769
They move, they have shorter

889
00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:07,829
feeding periods than a lot fish,

890
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:09,669
they are very good at so

891
00:29:09,670 --> 00:29:11,569
they catch the bait fish

892
00:29:11,570 --> 00:29:12,869
pretty quick.

893
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:14,070
And then they shut down.

894
00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:17,469
So I think that,

895
00:29:17,470 --> 00:29:19,089
the fact that they're more difficult

896
00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:22,449
to find, to catch,

897
00:29:22,450 --> 00:29:24,329
has created

898
00:29:24,330 --> 00:29:26,109
this whole mystique about walleye

899
00:29:26,110 --> 00:29:27,029
fishing.

900
00:29:27,030 --> 00:29:29,089
And they're always, not always,

901
00:29:29,090 --> 00:29:31,929
but they're often in deep water.

902
00:29:31,930 --> 00:29:33,169
And shallow water fish are always

903
00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:35,049
easier to catch.

904
00:29:35,050 --> 00:29:36,749
And no matter what the species, so

905
00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:38,809
deeper water fish or tougher.

906
00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:40,729
More line, more mystiques, more

907
00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:42,689
snags, There's more things in that

908
00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:45,129
you have less control over,

909
00:29:45,130 --> 00:29:46,429
that the more line you have out, the

910
00:29:46,430 --> 00:29:48,149
less control you have, always.

911
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:50,909
And so,

912
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:54,049
yeah. Wounded bagel, being shallow.

913
00:29:55,150 --> 00:29:57,050
Puck away, Fox River being shallow,

914
00:29:58,670 --> 00:29:59,809
easy, easy peasy.

915
00:29:59,810 --> 00:30:01,289
So I never looked at them as being

916
00:30:01,290 --> 00:30:02,290
hard to catch

917
00:30:03,590 --> 00:30:05,609
till I got in a tournament trail and

918
00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:07,549
had to fish deep water fish.

919
00:30:07,550 --> 00:30:09,089
I went, wait a minute, I've never

920
00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:10,269
done this, you know.

921
00:30:10,270 --> 00:30:11,739
So you have. I shouldn't say never

922
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:13,799
but you have to learn the

923
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,800
whole,

924
00:30:15,860 --> 00:30:17,659
the way they act differently in

925
00:30:17,660 --> 00:30:19,499
different bodies of water too, you

926
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:20,500
know, so.

927
00:30:22,510 --> 00:30:24,069
It seems like it's the combination

928
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:26,109
of they're

929
00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:27,409
not easy, they don't jump in the

930
00:30:27,410 --> 00:30:29,349
boat, and then the value of

931
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:30,970
what they're like on the plate, like

932
00:30:30,971 --> 00:30:31,949
those two things together.

933
00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:33,809
Sure and they're a

934
00:30:33,810 --> 00:30:35,649
nocturnal species so a lot of

935
00:30:35,650 --> 00:30:37,589
times they come up to feed

936
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:39,429
shallow at night and that's when you

937
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:40,889
catch them like the last half hour

938
00:30:40,890 --> 00:30:41,969
before dark.

939
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:43,969
So it's like a crazy half

940
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:45,989
hour of fishing and then nothing.

941
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:47,929
Okay so a a lot

942
00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:50,129
people don't get that opportunity or

943
00:30:50,130 --> 00:30:51,130
early morning.

944
00:30:52,690 --> 00:30:54,749
So there's that but of course in

945
00:30:54,750 --> 00:30:56,569
professional fishing we didn't fish

946
00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:58,069
at night. We fish in the daytime so

947
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:59,869
we had to learn how to adjust.

948
00:30:59,870 --> 00:31:01,389
How do we get these about in the

949
00:31:01,390 --> 00:31:03,049
daytime. Where are they?

950
00:31:03,050 --> 00:31:04,569
How do we make them bite?

951
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:06,709
And uh...

952
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:08,289
I don't know that you could make

953
00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:09,290
them bit.

954
00:31:11,730 --> 00:31:14,069
But you can at

955
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:16,109
times trigger some fish with

956
00:31:16,110 --> 00:31:18,629
certain tricks and

957
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:20,389
tweaks and stuff you do with

958
00:31:20,390 --> 00:31:22,349
presentation, which gets

959
00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:24,449
us into a whole another four

960
00:31:24,450 --> 00:31:26,829
hour summer on

961
00:31:26,830 --> 00:31:28,649
how to present the bait

962
00:31:28,650 --> 00:31:30,489
properly to the mood of the

963
00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:30,769
fish.

964
00:31:30,770 --> 00:31:32,129
Yeah.

965
00:31:32,130 --> 00:31:33,989
So when you

966
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:36,329
look back at the history of,

967
00:31:36,330 --> 00:31:37,769
like you said, this place was up

968
00:31:37,770 --> 00:31:38,690
north for a lot of people.

969
00:31:38,691 --> 00:31:39,329
Yes.

970
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:41,689
And then there's up north today,

971
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:44,309
which is Hayward, or River Managua.

972
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:46,149
How much of that mystique

973
00:31:46,150 --> 00:31:47,989
plays into up north?

974
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:49,390
Like, it had to be a travel, a

975
00:31:49,391 --> 00:31:50,229
destination for

976
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:52,009
It's kind of that too.

977
00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:53,010
Yeah.

978
00:31:53,310 --> 00:31:54,649
And it's the same way with Northern

979
00:31:54,650 --> 00:31:56,969
Pike, you know, it's kind of like a,

980
00:31:56,970 --> 00:31:58,809
you what's a Canadian, that whole

981
00:31:58,810 --> 00:32:00,769
Canadian walleye northerners, that's

982
00:32:00,770 --> 00:32:02,909
all they ever talk about up there,

983
00:32:02,910 --> 00:32:04,509
come up to Canada and catch all

984
00:32:04,510 --> 00:32:05,969
these fish. Well, we have these fish

985
00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:07,789
and so, and we

986
00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:09,509
have this fish all the way into

987
00:32:09,510 --> 00:32:11,909
Illinois, so, in Michigan,

988
00:32:11,910 --> 00:32:13,789
Minnesota, so why do I have

989
00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:14,790
to go there?

990
00:32:15,370 --> 00:32:17,449
But, so yeah,

991
00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:19,459
people... They want to catch those

992
00:32:19,460 --> 00:32:21,479
fish. They think big fish, we get

993
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,639
the big fish and the big predator

994
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,659
fish is always part of

995
00:32:25,660 --> 00:32:27,779
that, because they

996
00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:28,920
do grow big.

997
00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:31,419
People don't eat a lot of bass.

998
00:32:31,420 --> 00:32:33,599
People never ate a lot a bass in

999
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Wisconsin.

1000
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,199
They did, when I was a

1001
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,559
kid, for subsistence.

1002
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,099
A lot of the neighbors, they ate

1003
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:41,280
bass all the time.

1004
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,359
But other people, we don't need

1005
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:45,699
bass. Well, they didn't have to.

1006
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:46,609
They had walleyes.

1007
00:32:46,610 --> 00:32:48,389
They had northerns, they had perts,

1008
00:32:48,390 --> 00:32:50,529
bluegills like we still

1009
00:32:50,530 --> 00:32:52,369
do today where they can,

1010
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:53,789
they don't have to eat these other

1011
00:32:53,790 --> 00:32:55,109
fish, but there's nothing wrong with

1012
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:56,729
those fish.

1013
00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:58,069
You just don't want to eat them in

1014
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:59,070
July.

1015
00:33:01,170 --> 00:33:02,709
But the rest of the year when the

1016
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:05,529
water is cool or cold, they're fine.

1017
00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:07,349
But because of the abundance of

1018
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:09,429
these good-eating fish, so to

1019
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:11,309
speak, but then those same People

1020
00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:13,769
eat ball heads and catfish and

1021
00:33:13,770 --> 00:33:15,010
they're no great.

1022
00:33:16,510 --> 00:33:18,429
Meal, but they're not horrible

1023
00:33:18,430 --> 00:33:19,849
either.

1024
00:33:19,850 --> 00:33:21,769
You can eat them.

1025
00:33:21,770 --> 00:33:22,770
Yeah, they're a fish, you know.

1026
00:33:24,490 --> 00:33:26,049
One of the things that we're looking

1027
00:33:26,050 --> 00:33:27,869
at is how much

1028
00:33:27,870 --> 00:33:29,909
attention the state and

1029
00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:31,969
like the DNR or the universities

1030
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:33,809
and their researchers or

1031
00:33:33,810 --> 00:33:36,229
GLIFWC or the tribes and they're

1032
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:38,189
all the stocking and the research

1033
00:33:38,190 --> 00:33:40,189
and the studies and there's

1034
00:33:40,190 --> 00:33:42,089
a lot of attention on one

1035
00:33:42,090 --> 00:33:42,949
species.

1036
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:43,989
Yeah.

1037
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:46,149
Is it warranted for that one species

1038
00:33:46,150 --> 00:33:47,969
to have so much money

1039
00:33:47,970 --> 00:33:49,289
sunk into it because in a lot of

1040
00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:51,209
places the populations are

1041
00:33:51,210 --> 00:33:53,049
declining due to a number of

1042
00:33:53,050 --> 00:33:54,499
different factors.

1043
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:56,179
There's so much effort being like,

1044
00:33:56,180 --> 00:33:57,419
bring back the walleye.

1045
00:33:57,420 --> 00:33:58,009
Mm-hmm.

1046
00:33:58,010 --> 00:33:59,589
Is that, is that needed?

1047
00:33:59,590 --> 00:34:00,569
Is that worth it?

1048
00:34:00,570 --> 00:34:02,489
Or should I just let it, you know,

1049
00:34:02,490 --> 00:34:03,849
fall on a decline in an area, then

1050
00:34:03,850 --> 00:34:04,850
decline in something else?

1051
00:34:08,350 --> 00:34:10,189
If the money's there, if the

1052
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:11,829
resources are there, yeah, I mean,

1053
00:34:11,830 --> 00:34:12,649
why not?

1054
00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:14,269
We've done it with trout, we did it

1055
00:34:14,270 --> 00:34:15,249
with muskies.

1056
00:34:15,250 --> 00:34:17,309
I mean why not,

1057
00:34:18,590 --> 00:34:20,488
you know, the species you don't have

1058
00:34:20,489 --> 00:34:22,388
to really manage, like bass, for

1059
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:23,629
example, and bluegills.

1060
00:34:23,630 --> 00:34:24,709
I mean they kind of take care of

1061
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:26,589
themselves and

1062
00:34:26,590 --> 00:34:28,049
yeah, they can get stunted, they can

1063
00:34:28,050 --> 00:34:29,869
get overabundant, things

1064
00:34:29,870 --> 00:34:31,309
can happen there too, but they

1065
00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:32,349
rebound so fast.

1066
00:34:32,350 --> 00:34:33,669
They're fast growing, they rebound

1067
00:34:33,670 --> 00:34:35,289
and they can live in almost

1068
00:34:35,290 --> 00:34:37,238
anything, you But

1069
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,698
where walleyes need better water,

1070
00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:41,639
cleaner water generally,

1071
00:34:42,659 --> 00:34:43,879
the perch the same way.

1072
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,079
Perch and walleyed are important

1073
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,799
to the angler.

1074
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,319
They like to fish them, they like to

1075
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,479
keep them, and they like eat them.

1076
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,459
I think reducing

1077
00:34:53,460 --> 00:34:55,738
the limit to three

1078
00:34:55,739 --> 00:34:58,219
will really

1079
00:34:58,220 --> 00:34:59,780
go a long ways to help that.

1080
00:35:01,730 --> 00:35:03,649
And in places where they've done

1081
00:35:03,650 --> 00:35:05,369
slot limits in other states, and

1082
00:35:05,370 --> 00:35:06,949
even in Wisconsin, it's done

1083
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:08,049
wonders.

1084
00:35:08,050 --> 00:35:10,529
In places that I used to fish,

1085
00:35:10,530 --> 00:35:12,049
where you could barely catch one

1086
00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:14,309
over 15 inches, not today,

1087
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:16,029
with the slot limits, you can catch

1088
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:17,629
lots of big fish.

1089
00:35:17,630 --> 00:35:19,569
And you have to release them.

1090
00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:20,369
But that's OK.

1091
00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:21,749
You don't want to eat those anyway.

1092
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:24,729
But you can still keep some

1093
00:35:24,730 --> 00:35:26,769
14, 13,

1094
00:35:26,770 --> 00:35:28,669
15-inch walleyes if you

1095
00:35:28,670 --> 00:35:30,509
want. I think 13 is a little

1096
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:31,510
small.

1097
00:35:32,850 --> 00:35:35,049
But because these fish,

1098
00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:37,709
at that size, grow pretty fast.

1099
00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:38,929
From the time they're finger length

1100
00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:41,009
to the time they reach 15 to 18

1101
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:42,889
inches is three years, depending on

1102
00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:44,229
male or female.

1103
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:46,309
So that's pretty good for

1104
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:48,509
a fish to be plate ready,

1105
00:35:48,510 --> 00:35:50,350
if you want to use that term.

1106
00:35:51,830 --> 00:35:52,949
So is it worth it?

1107
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:53,950
Heck yeah.

1108
00:35:55,370 --> 00:35:57,289
And what the tribes are

1109
00:35:57,290 --> 00:35:59,349
doing with the stocking is,

1110
00:35:59,350 --> 00:36:01,969
obviously, it's a great PR thing.

1111
00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:03,809
But it's also an important

1112
00:36:03,810 --> 00:36:05,029
resource thing.

1113
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:06,989
Because we get to fish those lakes,

1114
00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:07,829
too.

1115
00:36:07,830 --> 00:36:09,769
And I've fished

1116
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:11,949
quite a bit on

1117
00:36:11,950 --> 00:36:14,049
a Lacta Flambeau flowage.

1118
00:36:14,050 --> 00:36:16,089
I know several tribal people

1119
00:36:16,090 --> 00:36:17,649
up there that I've worked with over

1120
00:36:17,650 --> 00:36:19,589
the years in PR and other stuff

1121
00:36:19,590 --> 00:36:20,590
years ago.

1122
00:36:21,870 --> 00:36:23,329
But some of those lakes up there are

1123
00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:25,869
just loaded with fish.

1124
00:36:25,870 --> 00:36:28,229
And they aren't

1125
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:29,689
even aware, the public's not even

1126
00:36:29,690 --> 00:36:31,979
that you can fish those.

1127
00:36:31,980 --> 00:36:33,779
In the summer.

1128
00:36:33,780 --> 00:36:35,359
You know, yeah, they're heavily

1129
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,959
speared, but there's a lot of fish

1130
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:37,759
there.

1131
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,939
Well, yeah. When you look, you know,

1132
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:40,559
people look at the spearing and they

1133
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,579
look at how many fish

1134
00:36:42,580 --> 00:36:44,619
are taken. Oh, they took 35,000

1135
00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:45,759
fish.

1136
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,719
Well, that's not, it's

1137
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,659
a lot because it's,

1138
00:36:50,660 --> 00:36:52,039
you got the stats there, but you

1139
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,479
don't have the stats of the hook and

1140
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,659
line and you don't have the stat,

1141
00:36:55,660 --> 00:36:57,559
you know, which is way, way,

1142
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,209
way, waaay higher, and so...

1143
00:37:00,210 --> 00:37:01,749
I think the state has kind of

1144
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:04,529
figured out at this point,

1145
00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:06,389
yeah this three fish limit is

1146
00:37:06,390 --> 00:37:08,909
a good idea, it's a good thing.

1147
00:37:08,910 --> 00:37:11,369
Once people are used to that,

1148
00:37:11,370 --> 00:37:12,429
all they want is a limit.

1149
00:37:13,930 --> 00:37:15,009
Yeah, I got my limit.

1150
00:37:15,010 --> 00:37:16,889
It's way easier to catch three than

1151
00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:18,849
five, or five

1152
00:37:18,850 --> 00:37:20,849
than ten, so if you

1153
00:37:20,850 --> 00:37:22,529
lower the limit to three, they still

1154
00:37:22,530 --> 00:37:24,389
got their limit, four or

1155
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:25,989
five guys, you get plenty of fish,

1156
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:27,289
that's enough fish.

1157
00:37:27,290 --> 00:37:28,509
And that's just walleyes, you can

1158
00:37:28,510 --> 00:37:29,789
catch other fish.

1159
00:37:29,790 --> 00:37:31,969
To eat too.

1160
00:37:31,970 --> 00:37:33,829
It doesn't have to just

1161
00:37:33,830 --> 00:37:35,349
be walleyes.

1162
00:37:35,350 --> 00:37:36,569
You know, Canada's been doing this

1163
00:37:36,570 --> 00:37:37,729
forever.

1164
00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:38,749
You know you can hardly bring any

1165
00:37:38,750 --> 00:37:39,889
fish back from there.

1166
00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:41,209
And those lakes are so full of fish

1167
00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:42,909
it's crazy.

1168
00:37:42,910 --> 00:37:44,609
You gotta be afraid to wash your

1169
00:37:44,610 --> 00:37:46,049
hands in there.

1170
00:37:46,050 --> 00:37:48,069
You can get your fingers bit off.

1171
00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:49,429
It's just nuts.

1172
00:37:49,430 --> 00:37:51,170
And yet people complain about that.

1173
00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:56,819
It's just wise use,

1174
00:37:56,820 --> 00:37:58,339
and it can work.

1175
00:37:58,340 --> 00:37:59,719
It does work.

1176
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:00,820
It's proven that it works.

1177
00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:04,399
So talk to me a little bit about the

1178
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:05,939
importance of relationships in

1179
00:38:05,940 --> 00:38:07,639
fishing. Obviously, you have a

1180
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,679
different dynamic with your

1181
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,639
wife being an active part of

1182
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,539
your career, but I'm sure

1183
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:15,579
you know people who either leave

1184
00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:16,899
the wife at home or maybe the wife

1185
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:18,439
gets a little upset about the amount

1186
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,760
of time spent in the boat.

1187
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:22,479
How does that get managed?

1188
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,480
Later.

1189
00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:25,829
Well, like any

1190
00:38:25,830 --> 00:38:27,509
career, sometimes it don't, you

1191
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:31,809
know, and people

1192
00:38:31,810 --> 00:38:33,210
just go their separate ways,

1193
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:37,469
but tournament fishing,

1194
00:38:37,470 --> 00:38:39,689
because of the scheduling,

1195
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:41,849
is tough. I mean, it's really tough.

1196
00:38:41,850 --> 00:38:42,969
A lot of guys would bring their

1197
00:38:42,970 --> 00:38:44,349
wives, and my wife loved that

1198
00:38:44,350 --> 00:38:46,009
because she got to be friends with

1199
00:38:46,010 --> 00:38:48,029
the wives of the fishermen,

1200
00:38:48,030 --> 00:38:49,689
and they would do stuff together and

1201
00:38:49,690 --> 00:38:50,690
so on.

1202
00:38:52,050 --> 00:38:53,489
And a lot of them still do travel

1203
00:38:53,490 --> 00:38:54,490
with their husbands.

1204
00:38:55,530 --> 00:38:57,209
A few fish with their husband like

1205
00:38:57,210 --> 00:38:59,109
in partner tournaments

1206
00:38:59,110 --> 00:39:00,929
and so on do well,

1207
00:39:00,930 --> 00:39:02,509
do very well.

1208
00:39:02,510 --> 00:39:03,829
But it's a strain.

1209
00:39:03,830 --> 00:39:05,669
I mean, regardless of what you're

1210
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:07,649
doing it's just a strain,

1211
00:39:07,650 --> 00:39:09,409
but you can have that same strain if

1212
00:39:09,410 --> 00:39:11,449
you worked at nine to five.

1213
00:39:11,450 --> 00:39:13,369
You know, the guy

1214
00:39:13,370 --> 00:39:16,249
comes home from work and then goes

1215
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:18,389
to the bar all night and plays

1216
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:19,849
Shootspool, plays Dirk.

1217
00:39:19,850 --> 00:39:21,249
I did all this stuff.

1218
00:39:21,250 --> 00:39:22,399
Shootpool.

1219
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,859
Do this, and they play baseball all

1220
00:39:25,860 --> 00:39:28,459
summer, and that's

1221
00:39:28,460 --> 00:39:29,699
the same thing.

1222
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:32,379
You're there, but you're not there.

1223
00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:33,659
I mean, you're physically there, but

1224
00:39:33,660 --> 00:39:35,759
you are not there because

1225
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,239
you're not doing anything with your

1226
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:38,240
spouse.

1227
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:40,859
So yeah, you have that.

1228
00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:42,759
And it's something that the two have

1229
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,619
to work out like

1230
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:46,719
you would with any other

1231
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:48,209
jobs.

1232
00:39:48,210 --> 00:39:50,109
Is there a way to make those I mean

1233
00:39:50,110 --> 00:39:51,809
is it because we've heard from some

1234
00:39:51,810 --> 00:39:53,109
couples that say oh well the wife

1235
00:39:53,110 --> 00:39:54,529
come along read a book or read a

1236
00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:56,109
book in the boat yeah you can still

1237
00:39:56,110 --> 00:39:57,429
go out in the water and there's

1238
00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:59,309
other just well no it's his time and

1239
00:39:59,310 --> 00:40:00,310
here's my time.

1240
00:40:02,140 --> 00:40:03,600
Well, I, yeah.

1241
00:40:06,020 --> 00:40:07,559
Got to decide you're not going to be

1242
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,479
as selfish as you are with

1243
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,299
your time and that's hard

1244
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:14,739
for a lot of guys and girls.

1245
00:40:14,740 --> 00:40:16,260
I mean, it's not just the guys,

1246
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,699
but a lot times it is where

1247
00:40:19,700 --> 00:40:21,579
I say, okay,

1248
00:40:21,580 --> 00:40:23,559
I need to spend some

1249
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,579
time here with you and I'm

1250
00:40:25,580 --> 00:40:27,199
going to make the time to do that

1251
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,219
and I

1252
00:40:29,220 --> 00:40:31,119
wasn't real good at that early in my

1253
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,260
career. It was much better later.

1254
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,339
Something I had to learn as well

1255
00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:39,299
because it can you yeah, you can go

1256
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:41,299
this way pretty fast if

1257
00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:42,300
you're

1258
00:40:43,630 --> 00:40:46,149
Your spouse wants attention and

1259
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:48,269
if you're not giving her attention

1260
00:40:48,270 --> 00:40:50,569
she's going to find attention

1261
00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:52,649
so nobody

1262
00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:54,369
wants that, neither does she.

1263
00:40:55,610 --> 00:40:57,569
So you just got to not be selfish

1264
00:40:57,570 --> 00:40:59,469
and make

1265
00:40:59,470 --> 00:41:00,779
time.

1266
00:41:00,780 --> 00:41:02,619
Well, it probably helped you that

1267
00:41:02,620 --> 00:41:04,389
she was a part of everything, right?

1268
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:05,849
It did.

1269
00:41:05,850 --> 00:41:08,269
I mean, you know,

1270
00:41:08,270 --> 00:41:09,790
you think about that. You got kids.

1271
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:12,329
Who's doing everything with the

1272
00:41:12,330 --> 00:41:13,689
kids? She is. Who is taking them to

1273
00:41:13,690 --> 00:41:15,149
all their games? She is school.

1274
00:41:15,150 --> 00:41:16,310
She is your fishing.

1275
00:41:18,030 --> 00:41:20,289
It don't look good.

1276
00:41:20,290 --> 00:41:21,909
You know?

1277
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:23,790
It doesn't look because it's not.

1278
00:41:25,810 --> 00:41:27,809
But, you get

1279
00:41:27,810 --> 00:41:29,069
mannered.

1280
00:41:29,070 --> 00:41:30,070
Man can be driven.

1281
00:41:31,420 --> 00:41:33,239
To the point of not seeing that

1282
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,019
and not appreciating that,

1283
00:41:36,180 --> 00:41:38,079
and again you gotta come back to

1284
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,299
reality.

1285
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:41,659
And that means you gotta sit down

1286
00:41:41,660 --> 00:41:43,579
when you're home, you gotta

1287
00:41:43,580 --> 00:41:44,439
be home.

1288
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,399
You can't be in Mille

1289
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,219
Lacs, cause that's your next

1290
00:41:48,220 --> 00:41:49,259
tournament.

1291
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:51,659
You just got back from Lake Erie,

1292
00:41:51,660 --> 00:41:52,979
and now you're at home but your

1293
00:41:52,980 --> 00:41:54,419
head's in Mile Lacs because that's

1294
00:41:54,420 --> 00:41:55,399
where you're going tomorrow.

1295
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,459
And that

1296
00:41:57,460 --> 00:41:59,939
precious time together.

1297
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:01,819
You've got to block that out and

1298
00:42:01,820 --> 00:42:04,299
really spend that time with her and

1299
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,059
that's

1300
00:42:07,060 --> 00:42:08,119
enough sometimes.

1301
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,039
Sometimes that's not enough,

1302
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,999
but it's better than nothing and

1303
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,979
once it all falls

1304
00:42:15,980 --> 00:42:17,919
into place and things can happen for

1305
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:18,920
you,

1306
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,299
like with Sherry, she was

1307
00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:24,659
a real estate broker at

1308
00:42:24,660 --> 00:42:26,499
a time when that thing

1309
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:28,319
was just exploding.

1310
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,179
And she gave that up to

1311
00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:32,859
travel with me to

1312
00:42:32,860 --> 00:42:34,679
help me in

1313
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,039
my career.

1314
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,779
That was a big sacrifice for her,

1315
00:42:37,780 --> 00:42:39,619
for both of us, because

1316
00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:41,539
her income was even better than

1317
00:42:41,540 --> 00:42:43,019
mine at that time.

1318
00:42:43,020 --> 00:42:44,619
And it would have way been way

1319
00:42:44,620 --> 00:42:46,539
better, you know,

1320
00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:48,399
everybody thinks you make a

1321
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:49,779
lot of money tournament fishing, you

1322
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:53,199
don't, but yeah,

1323
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,340
I mean, millions of dollars,

1324
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:58,969
but, but she...

1325
00:42:58,970 --> 00:43:00,989
Was willing to give that up, give up

1326
00:43:00,990 --> 00:43:01,990
her career,

1327
00:43:03,050 --> 00:43:04,449
to be with me.

1328
00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:05,449
And she loved it.

1329
00:43:05,450 --> 00:43:07,269
I mean, we did a

1330
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:09,069
lot. I mean we went to places

1331
00:43:09,070 --> 00:43:10,869
together we had never, ever been

1332
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:12,769
able to afford to go to or take

1333
00:43:12,770 --> 00:43:14,390
the time to go too,

1334
00:43:16,110 --> 00:43:17,429
that sponsors paid for.

1335
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:21,849
When you get at that level,

1336
00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:24,529
it's amazing what

1337
00:43:24,530 --> 00:43:26,210
you can do and the people you meet.

1338
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:29,869
And stuff you can see concerts

1339
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:31,790
and all kinds of crazy things.

1340
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,119
Talk to me about the Hall of

1341
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,810
Fame, how did that come to be?

1342
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,079
To get into the Fishing Hall of Fame

1343
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,020
is very simple.

1344
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,539
First of all, you have to be

1345
00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:48,659
nominated by someone.

1346
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,659
No matter who you are or how great

1347
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:53,539
you are, if you're not nominated,

1348
00:43:53,540 --> 00:43:54,579
you don't get in.

1349
00:43:54,580 --> 00:43:57,179
So you have be nominated someone.

1350
00:43:57,180 --> 00:43:59,619
So someone nominated me.

1351
00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:03,599
And years ago, 30

1352
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,099
years ago.

1353
00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:07,439
And I was so busy fishing,

1354
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:08,989
I didn't even care.

1355
00:44:08,990 --> 00:44:10,129
I mean, if you want to nominate,

1356
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:12,669
great. I don't have time to

1357
00:44:12,670 --> 00:44:14,169
deal with that.

1358
00:44:14,170 --> 00:44:16,069
So, and

1359
00:44:16,070 --> 00:44:18,149
I didn't get in.

1360
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:20,449
And so then

1361
00:44:20,450 --> 00:44:22,289
several years later,

1362
00:44:22,290 --> 00:44:24,189
another guy, Joel Coons,

1363
00:44:24,190 --> 00:44:25,669
friend of mine, said, I'm going to

1364
00:44:25,670 --> 00:44:27,869
nomate you from the Hall of Famous.

1365
00:44:27,870 --> 00:44:29,989
And he goes, I don't have time.

1366
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:31,729
And he goes well, you don't need to

1367
00:44:31,730 --> 00:44:32,809
do anything. I'll do it.

1368
00:44:32,810 --> 00:44:34,649
Okay. So he nominated me

1369
00:44:34,650 --> 00:44:36,329
and he put together a resume of

1370
00:44:36,330 --> 00:44:37,330
stuff.

1371
00:44:38,650 --> 00:44:40,589
I didn't get in, okay,

1372
00:44:40,590 --> 00:44:42,429
so, but

1373
00:44:42,430 --> 00:44:44,129
then I got a little more interested

1374
00:44:44,130 --> 00:44:46,069
because now I'm in my 70s and I'm

1375
00:44:46,070 --> 00:44:47,989
like, yeah, it'd be kind of nice,

1376
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:49,869
and da da da, so

1377
00:44:49,870 --> 00:44:51,909
you

1378
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:54,069
get three chances, so

1379
00:44:54,070 --> 00:44:56,369
we did a

1380
00:44:56,370 --> 00:44:58,889
re-nomination,

1381
00:44:58,890 --> 00:45:02,069
or he did, and I

1382
00:45:02,070 --> 00:45:04,009
did a better job of

1383
00:45:04,010 --> 00:45:05,829
getting the information that they

1384
00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:06,849
wanted.

1385
00:45:06,850 --> 00:45:08,569
That he needed, that he couldn't get

1386
00:45:08,570 --> 00:45:09,949
out of me because I was too busy

1387
00:45:09,950 --> 00:45:10,950
doing other stuff.

1388
00:45:12,110 --> 00:45:14,329
And so you have to,

1389
00:45:14,330 --> 00:45:15,829
there's protocols you have to

1390
00:45:15,830 --> 00:45:17,989
follow. If you don't follow them,

1391
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:19,529
even no matter what your resume

1392
00:45:19,530 --> 00:45:21,049
says, if you don't followed their

1393
00:45:21,050 --> 00:45:22,809
specific protocols, you can't get

1394
00:45:22,810 --> 00:45:23,869
in.

1395
00:45:23,870 --> 00:45:25,749
So I did that and

1396
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:28,809
the vote is always,

1397
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:30,989
they have a committee, a ten-member

1398
00:45:30,990 --> 00:45:33,369
committee, it has to be unanimous.

1399
00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:34,370
So,

1400
00:45:35,290 --> 00:45:37,339
which makes it very, very difficult.

1401
00:45:37,340 --> 00:45:39,919
And they

1402
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,459
unanimously voted

1403
00:45:42,460 --> 00:45:44,239
me in 2025.

1404
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,339
So, yeah, it was

1405
00:45:48,340 --> 00:45:50,539
quite the

1406
00:45:50,540 --> 00:45:52,780
deal. I mean, it's very honoring,

1407
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,799
really humbling, because the people

1408
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,679
that are in that, I mean if you look

1409
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,579
at the, what am

1410
00:45:59,580 --> 00:46:01,979
I doing in this, you know,

1411
00:46:01,980 --> 00:46:03,559
with these guys over here.

1412
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:04,560
But uh...

1413
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,659
Yeah, it's a great honor

1414
00:46:08,660 --> 00:46:10,599
and there's

1415
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,259
a whole lot of people that aren't in

1416
00:46:13,260 --> 00:46:15,099
that are way better fishermen than

1417
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:17,019
I ever was,

1418
00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:19,179
and they should be in,

1419
00:46:19,180 --> 00:46:21,059
but you have to follow the rules

1420
00:46:21,060 --> 00:46:22,439
to get in, just like you do with

1421
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,859
anything, so it

1422
00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:26,819
takes a

1423
00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:29,199
lot of due diligence to

1424
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,139
get it done the

1425
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:32,559
proper way, to follow proper

1426
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,159
channels and do it all correctly.

1427
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,299
But obviously it can be done.

1428
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:39,339
Does it feel like a

1429
00:46:39,340 --> 00:46:41,779
cherry on top to your career,

1430
00:46:41,780 --> 00:46:42,679
or is it a...

1431
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:42,800
Oh shi-

1432
00:46:42,801 --> 00:46:43,799
Oh sure.

1433
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,719
Oh sure, yeah.

1434
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,139
I mean, I mean I never,

1435
00:46:48,140 --> 00:46:49,979
this is why I never took it so

1436
00:46:49,980 --> 00:46:52,179
seriously the other two times

1437
00:46:52,180 --> 00:46:54,079
because I thought well if I get

1438
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,179
it again, I never knew

1439
00:46:56,180 --> 00:46:58,119
that they had protocols or

1440
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,159
rules or things you had to follow

1441
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,119
to do this.

1442
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,320
I said well,

1443
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,879
here I am. This is me, you know.

1444
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,799
I can catch fish and I've

1445
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:09,800
won tournaments.

1446
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:12,369
Spoke to millions of people and

1447
00:47:12,370 --> 00:47:16,089
blah, blah, blah, and so,

1448
00:47:16,090 --> 00:47:17,589
okay. You're like, nah.

1449
00:47:19,570 --> 00:47:21,609
Today, Fishing All

1450
00:47:21,610 --> 00:47:23,429
Famous has

1451
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:26,109
a whole new set

1452
00:47:26,110 --> 00:47:28,249
of rules, curricula,

1453
00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:30,349
you have to follow, and so

1454
00:47:30,350 --> 00:47:31,510
much of it is media.

1455
00:47:33,370 --> 00:47:34,369
What have you done?

1456
00:47:34,370 --> 00:47:36,659
What have done to promote fishing

1457
00:47:36,660 --> 00:47:38,629
in not only Wisconsin, but in

1458
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:39,949
the world? What have you done?

1459
00:47:41,140 --> 00:47:42,999
To teach people to fish

1460
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,419
in your career.

1461
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,599
If you just tournament fished, if

1462
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:48,699
you just guided,

1463
00:47:50,180 --> 00:47:52,019
a lot of people that are in Hall of

1464
00:47:52,020 --> 00:47:54,039
Fame are in because

1465
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:55,719
of that, because of those two

1466
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:56,759
things.

1467
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,599
But today, that's not

1468
00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:59,499
enough.

1469
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:01,579
Today, with all the multiple, do

1470
00:48:01,580 --> 00:48:03,299
you have a podcast?

1471
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:05,239
Do you have a show, a TV

1472
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:07,649
show? How do you reach people?

1473
00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:09,129
Uh... Have you worked with state

1474
00:48:09,130 --> 00:48:11,449
agencies and restoration projects

1475
00:48:11,450 --> 00:48:13,389
and so it's much more

1476
00:48:13,390 --> 00:48:16,189
deeper now than it used to be

1477
00:48:16,190 --> 00:48:18,349
and it's understandable

1478
00:48:18,350 --> 00:48:20,189
I mean when you start out

1479
00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:21,769
guy starts out, hey I'm starting the

1480
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:23,329
Hall of Fame well who are you going

1481
00:48:23,330 --> 00:48:24,229
to put in? Well I don't know, how

1482
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:26,389
about Joe, he's a great fisherman,

1483
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:28,649
okay you know and

1484
00:48:28,650 --> 00:48:30,609
it's true I mean

1485
00:48:30,610 --> 00:48:32,289
some of the really early inductees

1486
00:48:32,290 --> 00:48:33,669
in the Hall of Fame were great

1487
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:35,609
guides You know, but

1488
00:48:35,610 --> 00:48:36,889
they couldn't do it.

1489
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:38,689
Fishermen could do today to promote

1490
00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:40,809
the sport of angling,

1491
00:48:40,810 --> 00:48:41,810
and I think that

1492
00:48:43,210 --> 00:48:44,210
and

1493
00:48:45,150 --> 00:48:46,989
Biologists so more and

1494
00:48:46,990 --> 00:48:48,909
more they're leaning toward

1495
00:48:48,910 --> 00:48:51,709
people who are much writers But

1496
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:53,649
not just writers writers that are

1497
00:48:53,650 --> 00:48:55,569
fishermen writers that promote

1498
00:48:55,570 --> 00:48:57,169
writers that work with non-profit

1499
00:48:57,170 --> 00:48:59,089
organizations With

1500
00:48:59,090 --> 00:49:01,029
other fisheries organizations other

1501
00:49:01,030 --> 00:49:02,989
groups. I mean, it's just expanded

1502
00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:05,509
so much manufacturers

1503
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:07,329
that have done, contributed

1504
00:49:07,330 --> 00:49:09,149
hundreds of thousands of dollars to

1505
00:49:09,150 --> 00:49:11,689
the industry, that kind of stuff.

1506
00:49:11,690 --> 00:49:13,889
So yeah, it's not, it is hard.

1507
00:49:13,890 --> 00:49:16,329
It's really hard to get in.

1508
00:49:16,330 --> 00:49:17,549
I'm proof of that.

1509
00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:18,789
You just can't get in because

1510
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:19,789
somebody knows you're a great

1511
00:49:19,790 --> 00:49:21,050
fisherman anymore.

1512
00:49:22,330 --> 00:49:25,989
Yeah, the ten member voting

1513
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:28,169
panel are very, very tough

1514
00:49:28,170 --> 00:49:30,409
and I

1515
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:32,259
think that's a good thing.

1516
00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:34,519
Of course I can say that, because I

1517
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:35,520
made it.

1518
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:37,069
Ha ha!

1519
00:49:37,070 --> 00:49:39,051
But but yeah, I mean

1520
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:42,019
I mean, do they give you a call when

1521
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:43,699
that happens, or you get a letter,

1522
00:49:43,700 --> 00:49:45,179
or how does that work?

1523
00:49:45,180 --> 00:49:47,539
They send you a letter,

1524
00:49:47,540 --> 00:49:48,540
believe it or not.

1525
00:49:50,740 --> 00:49:52,539
They make the decision in July, I

1526
00:49:52,540 --> 00:49:53,719
don't tell you until October.

1527
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:54,720
For watching.

1528
00:49:57,660 --> 00:49:59,639
Yeah, and you get a letter from

1529
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,619
the President of the Hall of

1530
00:50:01,620 --> 00:50:03,379
Fame. Congratulations.

1531
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:05,339
You've been chosen for

1532
00:50:05,340 --> 00:50:07,020
induction for 2025.

1533
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:09,720
That's from Emmett Brown.

1534
00:50:13,330 --> 00:50:16,689
Yeah, it was

1535
00:50:16,690 --> 00:50:18,529
a pretty emotional thing,

1536
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:20,869
it still is, and

1537
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:22,789
like I said I'm very humbled

1538
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:23,790
by it.

1539
00:50:25,230 --> 00:50:27,129
I'm sorry that I was so flippant

1540
00:50:27,130 --> 00:50:28,469
about it all those other years

1541
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:30,469
because it really is a great honor.

1542
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:36,679
Because I wish I would have had it

1543
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:36,969
30 years ago.

1544
00:50:36,970 --> 00:50:38,629
Ago so I could have bragged about it

1545
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:39,630
all these years.

1546
00:50:40,690 --> 00:50:41,609
They had people say, well they put

1547
00:50:41,610 --> 00:50:43,529
you in just before you died.

1548
00:50:43,530 --> 00:50:44,530
I said, thanks a lot.

1549
00:50:48,049 --> 00:50:49,689
So, take advantage of it, because

1550
00:50:49,690 --> 00:50:51,049
you haven't got that many years to

1551
00:50:51,050 --> 00:50:52,050
breath.

1552
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:54,979
But your plaque will always be.

1553
00:50:54,980 --> 00:50:56,719
Clack will always be there.

1554
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:58,239
One of my grandkids will have that

1555
00:50:58,240 --> 00:50:59,340
someplace someday.

1556
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:04,190
That's all we need from you.

1557
00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:07,279
Thank you for giving us time.

1558
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:08,309
Oh, thank you.

1559
00:51:08,310 --> 00:51:10,149
If you don't mind, what I would like

1560
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:12,029
to do is put a little wireless mic

1561
00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:13,589
on you and have you kind of give

1562
00:51:13,590 --> 00:51:15,169
Ethan and me a little tour of your

1563
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:17,229
office, any other of the

1564
00:51:17,230 --> 00:51:19,249
mementos and photos from around

1565
00:51:19,250 --> 00:51:20,429
here, if that's okay? Sure.

1566
00:51:20,430 --> 00:51:21,489
Yeah, that'd be great.

1567
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,800
Before I had a computer,

1568
00:51:30,940 --> 00:51:32,799
back in the days of the manual

1569
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,619
typewriter where I

1570
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:36,499
started my

1571
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:38,079
freelance writing career right at

1572
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:39,080
this desk.

1573
00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:43,489
Thousands, tens of thousands of

1574
00:51:43,490 --> 00:51:45,809
hours of tick tick tick and

1575
00:51:45,810 --> 00:51:47,969
erase tape

1576
00:51:47,970 --> 00:51:49,570
and all that good stuff and

1577
00:51:50,950 --> 00:51:53,089
and now still doing a

1578
00:51:53,090 --> 00:51:55,249
little bit of writing with the

1579
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:57,089
computer. It's so much easier,

1580
00:51:57,090 --> 00:51:58,090
so much nicer

1581
00:51:59,250 --> 00:52:01,309
and of course I had to have a place

1582
00:52:01,310 --> 00:52:03,269
to hang up all

1583
00:52:03,270 --> 00:52:05,469
my basically

1584
00:52:05,470 --> 00:52:07,309
my life

1585
00:52:07,310 --> 00:52:08,869
or at least most of my

1586
00:52:08,870 --> 00:52:10,629
accomplishments here.

1587
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:11,849
A little snapshot of what we got.

1588
00:52:11,850 --> 00:52:13,029
Give me one second, that's all

1589
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:14,149
right.

1590
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:15,889
So what do we got on the wall for

1591
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:16,349
some of these plants?

1592
00:52:16,350 --> 00:52:19,009
Yeah, well these are mainly,

1593
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:20,849
these are all my walleye, well

1594
00:52:20,850 --> 00:52:21,850
they're not all of them,

1595
00:52:23,050 --> 00:52:25,149
but some of my top ten finishes in

1596
00:52:25,150 --> 00:52:26,270
walleye tournament fishing.

1597
00:52:27,930 --> 00:52:30,329
You can see different places

1598
00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:32,569
around the world, Minnesota,

1599
00:52:32,570 --> 00:52:34,709
Michigan, Arkansas,

1600
00:52:36,590 --> 00:52:38,709
Arkansas Super Pro,

1601
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:40,610
Missouri Super Pro Championship,

1602
00:52:41,970 --> 00:52:44,489
and Port Clinton Ohio Championship

1603
00:52:44,490 --> 00:52:45,479
up there.

1604
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,480
See one up there.

1605
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:49,799
Oh yeah, one from Winnebago,

1606
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,059
that's Mercury National.

1607
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,499
2000, that was a while ago,

1608
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:57,759
25 years ago already,

1609
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:58,760
and uh...

1610
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,819
I don't mount

1611
00:53:02,820 --> 00:53:04,659
a lot of stuff, but I had my

1612
00:53:04,660 --> 00:53:07,699
mounted walleye that

1613
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:09,559
we used for a

1614
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,899
photo shoot

1615
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:13,419
in Fort Peck, Montana,

1616
00:53:15,020 --> 00:53:16,499
and within Fisherman for their

1617
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:19,139
magazine and their TV

1618
00:53:19,140 --> 00:53:20,140
show.

1619
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,699
They needed a wider walleye

1620
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:24,579
over 10 pounds, so I

1621
00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:25,999
went out and caught that.

1622
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,079
It was a 13.

1623
00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:31,449
Just drove over a hump and saw it

1624
00:53:31,450 --> 00:53:33,189
sitting down on the bottom there

1625
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:34,710
with a graph, you know,

1626
00:53:36,090 --> 00:53:37,929
and dropped a jig in the minnow down

1627
00:53:37,930 --> 00:53:39,869
to it and reeled it up and started

1628
00:53:39,870 --> 00:53:41,369
taking pictures.

1629
00:53:41,370 --> 00:53:43,329
That's that fish and

1630
00:53:43,330 --> 00:53:45,189
that fish is on the cover of

1631
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:46,249
the Walleye Insider.

1632
00:53:46,250 --> 00:53:48,189
That's the fish over there,

1633
00:53:48,190 --> 00:53:50,628
so, yeah, it's been...

1634
00:53:50,629 --> 00:53:52,129
Most people, when they say they want

1635
00:53:52,130 --> 00:53:53,549
a 10 pound walleye.

1636
00:53:53,550 --> 00:53:53,550
Yeah.

1637
00:53:53,551 --> 00:53:55,499
Yeah, in your dreams.

1638
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:56,519
Yeah, well.

1639
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:57,349
We'll have a backup in an afternoon.

1640
00:53:57,350 --> 00:53:59,669
We, yeah,

1641
00:53:59,670 --> 00:54:02,069
I always had a,

1642
00:54:02,070 --> 00:54:03,549
back in those days I knew how to

1643
00:54:03,550 --> 00:54:05,709
catch those big fish and

1644
00:54:05,710 --> 00:54:07,869
so I got a

1645
00:54:07,870 --> 00:54:09,429
lot of opportunities to go with

1646
00:54:09,430 --> 00:54:11,569
writers and

1647
00:54:11,570 --> 00:54:13,509
video people

1648
00:54:13,510 --> 00:54:15,409
that wanted big

1649
00:54:15,410 --> 00:54:16,410
fish.

1650
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:18,749
And they said, well, this is a guy

1651
00:54:18,750 --> 00:54:20,269
to call. They'd call me and say,

1652
00:54:20,270 --> 00:54:21,249
well let's, yeah, where do you want

1653
00:54:21,250 --> 00:54:23,609
to go? We'll just go get one and

1654
00:54:23,610 --> 00:54:25,589
they're like, how do you do this?

1655
00:54:28,330 --> 00:54:30,269
It's not hard, I mean, you pick

1656
00:54:30,270 --> 00:54:33,169
the time of year, spring or fall,

1657
00:54:33,170 --> 00:54:34,609
and when they're most abundant, and

1658
00:54:34,610 --> 00:54:36,229
they're more aggressive, and you

1659
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:38,089
just find them and go catch

1660
00:54:38,090 --> 00:54:39,949
them. Catch them, that's the easiest

1661
00:54:39,950 --> 00:54:41,789
part, you know.

1662
00:54:41,790 --> 00:54:43,609
It's just, you're

1663
00:54:43,610 --> 00:54:45,569
locating, and,

1664
00:54:46,910 --> 00:54:48,949
you want photo fish.

1665
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:50,769
I mean they always wanted big

1666
00:54:50,770 --> 00:54:51,809
size, I don't know why.

1667
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:53,309
I mean I think a three pound

1668
00:54:53,310 --> 00:54:55,209
walleye's just as impressive as a

1669
00:54:55,210 --> 00:54:57,149
10 pounder, but they don't,

1670
00:54:57,150 --> 00:54:58,150
so.

1671
00:54:59,450 --> 00:55:00,829
Of course, I'm a little guy, so when

1672
00:55:00,830 --> 00:55:02,609
I hold a 10 pounder, it just looks

1673
00:55:02,610 --> 00:55:04,509
big, you know, it is big,

1674
00:55:04,510 --> 00:55:06,449
but yeah, I can make a 5 pounder

1675
00:55:06,450 --> 00:55:07,450
look pretty big.

1676
00:55:09,830 --> 00:55:12,049
The rest of it's

1677
00:55:12,050 --> 00:55:14,149
just a couple deer from years

1678
00:55:14,150 --> 00:55:17,329
ago that I got and

1679
00:55:17,330 --> 00:55:18,330
hunting out here.

1680
00:55:19,290 --> 00:55:21,189
So I think I saw the photo

1681
00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:22,190
of yours, this.

1682
00:55:26,490 --> 00:55:28,709
Yeah, that's me

1683
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:30,749
in the professional walleye trail

1684
00:55:30,750 --> 00:55:33,109
stage a

1685
00:55:33,110 --> 00:55:34,249
long time ago.

1686
00:55:34,250 --> 00:55:35,949
I don't even know who, is that Al?

1687
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,219
I think it is.

1688
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,259
Al Linder was the emcee at

1689
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:44,260
that time.

1690
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,019
And I got quite a few pictures of

1691
00:55:47,020 --> 00:55:48,079
Al.

1692
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:49,919
He's got this weirdest look on his

1693
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,679
face whenever I'm talking because

1694
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:56,339
He's like, what did you say?

1695
00:55:56,340 --> 00:55:58,299
Word salads, you know,

1696
00:55:58,300 --> 00:56:00,099
so you do when you when you bomb in

1697
00:56:00,100 --> 00:56:01,100
a tournament

1698
00:56:02,740 --> 00:56:04,759
So yeah, it's pretty we talked

1699
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:06,599
about that off and on he

1700
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:07,419
laughs about that.

1701
00:56:07,420 --> 00:56:08,659
He says yeah, you just stand there

1702
00:56:08,660 --> 00:56:09,019
keep talking

1703
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:10,399
but you never said anything.

1704
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:11,979
I said, yeah, it's kind of what you

1705
00:56:11,980 --> 00:56:13,559
do when you fail, you know.

1706
00:56:15,870 --> 00:56:16,870
Yeah,

1707
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:19,429
these other things are just crazy

1708
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:20,430
stuff.

1709
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:23,979
Do you want to use the tripod and

1710
00:56:23,980 --> 00:56:25,089
get some... Sure.

1711
00:56:25,090 --> 00:56:27,049
We're gonna let Ethan and Sean and

1712
00:56:27,050 --> 00:56:28,050
the other two boys.

1713
00:56:28,970 --> 00:56:31,369
So, uh, yeah,

1714
00:56:31,370 --> 00:56:32,370
it was a riot.

1715
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,209
On top of water baits too.

1716
00:56:36,210 --> 00:56:37,289
Oh really?

1717
00:56:37,290 --> 00:56:38,290
That'd be fun.

1718
00:56:39,180 --> 00:56:40,919
They kind of hooked themselves so

1719
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,179
that I figured it'd be the easiest

1720
00:56:42,180 --> 00:56:43,480
for the kids, you know.

1721
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,219
Yeah, that was a blast.

1722
00:56:48,830 --> 00:56:50,729
Lots of screaming, especially from

1723
00:56:50,730 --> 00:56:51,730
the little ones.

1724
00:56:53,690 --> 00:56:56,369
Yeah. So I started birdwatching,

1725
00:56:56,370 --> 00:56:57,929
and there was a fall migration of

1726
00:56:57,930 --> 00:57:00,309
warblers. He's naming off these

1727
00:57:00,310 --> 00:57:01,909
birds right over there, going, peep.

1728
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:05,419
Oh, that's a black birdie and a

1729
00:57:05,420 --> 00:57:06,262
marlboro, it's a white and black and

1730
00:57:06,263 --> 00:57:08,099
white and whatever. Oh, there goes a

1731
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:09,439
Cape May warbler, and I'm like, you

1732
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,279
gotta be kidding me, you

1733
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,000
know. I go, it was a blue jay.

1734
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,039
I'm buying them,

1735
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:17,859
so then I would submit

1736
00:57:17,860 --> 00:57:18,860
to other magazines,

1737
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,439
and they were buying them.

1738
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,099
So then, all of a sudden, I'm

1739
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:25,379
writing a column for the local

1740
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:27,239
paper, and then

1741
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,099
I'm ready for the other paper over

1742
00:57:29,100 --> 00:57:31,319
in Green Lake, another column.

1743
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,139
And I'm writing constantly, it's all

1744
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:34,500
I was doing, was writing,

1745
00:57:35,580 --> 00:57:37,459
but I was selling it,

1746
00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:38,540
and it wasn't hard.

1747
00:57:41,350 --> 00:57:43,269
Mostly birds and fish or what

1748
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:44,270
was the topic?

1749
00:57:45,650 --> 00:57:47,489
It was mostly birds and

1750
00:57:47,490 --> 00:57:50,509
fish, it wasn't science based,

1751
00:57:50,510 --> 00:57:52,129
but then I got elected to the

1752
00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:53,409
Conservation Congress.

1753
00:57:54,450 --> 00:57:56,229
So then I started doing reporting,

1754
00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:58,689
which obviously a whole different

1755
00:57:58,690 --> 00:58:00,769
can of worms and that was so

1756
00:58:00,770 --> 00:58:03,149
easy, I mean, compared to

1757
00:58:03,150 --> 00:58:04,150
creative writing.

1758
00:58:05,970 --> 00:58:08,549
So then, I started working

1759
00:58:08,550 --> 00:58:10,369
as

1760
00:58:10,370 --> 00:58:12,229
a freelancer to cover

1761
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:14,079
stories for

1762
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:15,799
I did some for the journal,

1763
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:16,900
Milwaukee Journal,

1764
00:58:18,380 --> 00:58:20,399
a couple for Madison paper for that

1765
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,019
meeting. Could you cover it and send

1766
00:58:22,020 --> 00:58:23,859
us a piece? And we want 500 words

1767
00:58:23,860 --> 00:58:25,579
or whatever, you know?

1768
00:58:25,580 --> 00:58:27,879
And so I started doing that.

1769
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,499
And those all paid really well,

1770
00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:32,599
and much more than like

1771
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,339
say a local column.

1772
00:58:34,340 --> 00:58:36,079
But the local column in the paper

1773
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,079
paid every week.

1774
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,179
So I got a outdoor

1775
00:58:40,180 --> 00:58:42,159
column, well then they had me

1776
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,669
start doing reporting.

1777
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:45,289
So then I got paid more, and

1778
00:58:45,290 --> 00:58:47,909
photography, so I got payed more.

1779
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:50,009
And went on for,

1780
00:58:50,010 --> 00:58:51,889
well, 78 is when I

1781
00:58:51,890 --> 00:58:53,409
started.

1782
00:58:53,410 --> 00:58:55,289
89 is when i stopped

1783
00:58:55,290 --> 00:58:57,530
writing altogether,

1784
00:58:59,010 --> 00:59:00,649
because of my turn in my career.

1785
00:59:00,650 --> 00:59:01,809
Although I didn't really, because I

1786
00:59:01,810 --> 00:59:03,229
wrote books.

1787
00:59:03,230 --> 00:59:04,230
But that's different.

1788
00:59:06,690 --> 00:59:08,849
So I wrote the

1789
00:59:08,850 --> 00:59:10,669
Journal of a Walleye Pro,

1790
00:59:10,670 --> 00:59:11,629
and wrote 1,000.

1791
00:59:11,630 --> 00:59:13,669
Or then a new

1792
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:15,649
guy comes in and

1793
00:59:15,650 --> 00:59:17,989
why are we selling his books,

1794
00:59:17,990 --> 00:59:19,889
you know, and

1795
00:59:19,890 --> 00:59:21,769
we shouldn't be

1796
00:59:21,770 --> 00:59:22,889
selling somebody else's books.

1797
00:59:22,890 --> 00:59:24,229
We should only be selling our

1798
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:25,650
author's books, okay.

1799
00:59:26,670 --> 00:59:28,649
That was after the

1800
00:59:28,650 --> 00:59:29,889
Lindner sold.

1801
00:59:29,890 --> 00:59:30,969
That was Al's idea.

1802
00:59:31,970 --> 00:59:33,949
So the new people said, okay,

1803
00:59:33,950 --> 00:59:35,889
yeah, let's get rid of all of

1804
00:59:35,890 --> 00:59:37,949
these. Gary Parsons had one,

1805
00:59:37,950 --> 00:59:39,548
Roach had one.

1806
00:59:39,549 --> 00:59:41,209
So, they called me and said, hey.

1807
00:59:42,399 --> 00:59:44,319
We got 8,000 of these

1808
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,159
books sitting here.

1809
00:59:48,339 --> 00:59:50,160
And we're going to phase them out.

1810
00:59:51,580 --> 00:59:52,699
Do you want them?

1811
00:59:52,700 --> 00:59:54,079
This is what you want for me, is a

1812
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:55,119
bucket piece.

1813
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,539
I go, OK.

1814
00:59:56,540 --> 00:59:57,779
So I bought them. I said, sure,

1815
00:59:57,780 --> 00:59:58,899
let's buy them.

1816
00:59:58,900 --> 01:00:00,039
I'll sell them at sports shows.

1817
01:00:02,660 --> 01:00:04,939
They were gone in like two years.

1818
01:00:04,940 --> 01:00:06,359
Because I'm getting out of the

1819
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,059
writing business and the publishing

1820
01:00:08,060 --> 01:00:10,119
business, and I've

1821
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,239
got 6,000

1822
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,240
of these books.

1823
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,359
Do you want them?

1824
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:17,219
And I said, how much?

1825
01:00:17,220 --> 01:00:18,199
He says, three bucks.

1826
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,219
I go, man, $18 grand,

1827
01:00:21,220 --> 01:00:23,139
a lot of money.

1828
01:00:23,140 --> 01:00:24,258
So we talked it over.

1829
01:00:24,259 --> 01:00:26,000
We talked it. He lived in Iowa.

1830
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,179
And I say, let's do it.

1831
01:00:29,180 --> 01:00:31,079
I said we sold all these other

1832
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:32,119
ones, Jerusalem.

1833
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,129
That's it.

1834
01:00:33,130 --> 01:00:35,349
We'll sell them eventually.

1835
01:00:35,350 --> 01:00:39,489
So we bought the journal book and

1836
01:00:39,490 --> 01:00:41,690
went down to the Madison show.

1837
01:00:42,930 --> 01:00:44,028
I said, you know, that's a pretty

1838
01:00:44,029 --> 01:00:46,189
good gig, you know.

1839
01:00:46,190 --> 01:00:47,949
So they asked, so we ended up

1840
01:00:47,950 --> 01:00:50,129
selling. Then I had the video and

1841
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:51,489
then I did the jigging and spoon

1842
01:00:51,490 --> 01:00:52,749
video.

1843
01:00:52,750 --> 01:00:54,609
I wrote Fishing with a Mission

1844
01:00:54,610 --> 01:00:56,729
and I ghost wrote a

1845
01:00:56,730 --> 01:00:58,709
cookbook for a buddy of mine and

1846
01:00:58,710 --> 01:01:00,548
then the local

1847
01:01:00,549 --> 01:01:02,789
guide to Buffalo Lake fishing and

1848
01:01:02,790 --> 01:01:05,249
and uh my

1849
01:01:05,250 --> 01:01:07,929
very first after three

1850
01:01:07,930 --> 01:01:10,189
i wrote three stories

1851
01:01:10,190 --> 01:01:12,528
on they

1852
01:01:12,529 --> 01:01:14,649
um you

1853
01:01:14,650 --> 01:01:16,709
can get them at amazon

1854
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:18,809
for 75 to 150

1855
01:01:18,810 --> 01:01:20,709
dollars a piece boy

1856
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:23,028
do i wish i had kept a couple cases

1857
01:01:23,029 --> 01:01:24,539
i bet yeah

1858
01:01:24,540 --> 01:01:25,369
That's crazy.

1859
01:01:25,370 --> 01:01:27,369
Yeah, we tried to,

1860
01:01:27,370 --> 01:01:28,629
Sherry found it in Goodwill.

1861
01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:30,129
She's, oh, look at here.

1862
01:01:30,130 --> 01:01:31,849
She brought it home.

1863
01:01:31,850 --> 01:01:33,489
And yeah, it's pretty funny.

1864
01:01:33,490 --> 01:01:35,209
So I only got two of those left.

1865
01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:38,369
And I already have, yeah,

1866
01:01:38,370 --> 01:01:39,929
and the other stuff.

1867
01:01:39,930 --> 01:01:42,229
You know, obviously the VHS

1868
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:43,630
tapes on it's all junk.

1869
01:01:45,370 --> 01:01:46,949
I mean, nobody's gonna buy those,

1870
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:49,008
but my little,

1871
01:01:49,009 --> 01:01:51,329
and what do you do with that stuff?

1872
01:01:51,330 --> 01:01:52,330
I mean it's.

1873
01:01:53,350 --> 01:01:54,229
We could borrow this.

1874
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:55,229
You can have it.

1875
01:01:55,230 --> 01:01:56,068
Digitize some of this.

1876
01:01:56,069 --> 01:01:57,269
Sure. Please.

1877
01:01:57,270 --> 01:01:58,749
We'll grab a couple of clips out of

1878
01:01:58,750 --> 01:01:58,869
here.

1879
01:01:58,870 --> 01:02:00,469
Cool, yeah, that'd be great.

1880
01:02:00,470 --> 01:02:01,568
Sure, absolutely.

1881
01:02:01,569 --> 01:02:02,569
Vintage stuff.

1882
01:02:03,319 --> 01:02:04,599
Definitely a vintage.

1883
01:02:07,100 --> 01:02:08,699
I think we got some beta up there

1884
01:02:08,700 --> 01:02:09,700
somewhere.

1885
01:02:10,210 --> 01:02:12,349
Seriously, I don't

1886
01:02:12,350 --> 01:02:13,649
know where it is.

1887
01:02:13,650 --> 01:02:14,629
Our engineers would probably be

1888
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:16,129
happier with beta than they would be

1889
01:02:16,130 --> 01:02:17,130
with VGNs.

1890
01:02:17,630 --> 01:02:19,389
I don't know where it is, but it's

1891
01:02:19,390 --> 01:02:20,108
there somewhere.

1892
01:02:20,109 --> 01:02:20,769
That's funny.

1893
01:02:20,770 --> 01:02:23,129
Unless I taught, you know,

1894
01:02:23,130 --> 01:02:25,349
I don't think I threw that out.

1895
01:02:25,350 --> 01:02:27,079
It was your VHS.

1896
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:28,080
Very cool

1897
01:02:34,299 --> 01:02:35,319
I don't see it though

1898
01:02:39,970 --> 01:02:41,349
It should be right up there with the

1899
01:02:41,350 --> 01:02:42,869
rest of it.

1900
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:44,189
Maybe I did throw it, because I

1901
01:02:44,190 --> 01:02:45,829
figured nobody's ever gonna look at

1902
01:02:45,830 --> 01:02:46,830
this.

1903
01:02:48,109 --> 01:02:50,429
Believe me, I did one...

1904
01:02:52,509 --> 01:02:54,568
I did such a clearing of

1905
01:02:54,569 --> 01:02:56,469
stuff, you wouldn't believe, just

1906
01:02:56,470 --> 01:02:58,389
bins and piles and piles,

1907
01:02:58,390 --> 01:03:00,209
and piles of promotional crap,

1908
01:03:01,850 --> 01:03:03,729
you know, because it just was of

1909
01:03:03,730 --> 01:03:04,730
no value.

1910
01:03:09,230 --> 01:03:10,230
Son of a dog's name.

1911
01:03:12,270 --> 01:03:13,829
It was the greatest thing on earth

1912
01:03:13,830 --> 01:03:15,949
for about a year.

1913
01:03:15,950 --> 01:03:17,548
And then I must've got everybody

1914
01:03:17,549 --> 01:03:19,548
that wanted to buy one because I'm

1915
01:03:19,549 --> 01:03:21,589
sitting here with a bunch.

1916
01:03:21,590 --> 01:03:23,409
I can't get rid of them.

1917
01:03:23,410 --> 01:03:24,769
Not that I tried to sell them.

1918
01:03:24,770 --> 01:03:25,770
I'm just...

1919
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,758
Hell, I don't

1920
01:03:29,759 --> 01:03:31,719
see that beta,

1921
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,479
but I didn't think it.

1922
01:03:36,690 --> 01:03:38,629
Yeah, sorry, I think visually, you

1923
01:03:38,630 --> 01:03:40,309
know, but then you come through it

1924
01:03:40,310 --> 01:03:41,310
wide, like full.

1925
01:03:43,009 --> 01:03:44,129
Yeah. You sure you're not doing your

1926
01:03:44,130 --> 01:03:45,449
horror story again?

1927
01:03:45,450 --> 01:03:47,389
No, no, no.

1928
01:03:47,390 --> 01:03:48,709
Do you have a big Paul McCartney

1929
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:49,548
fan?

1930
01:03:49,549 --> 01:03:50,549
Oh, yeah.

1931
01:03:51,370 --> 01:03:53,739
This song, Young Boy, is incredible.

1932
01:03:53,740 --> 01:03:54,740
No, yeah

1933
01:03:55,509 --> 01:03:56,349
Yeah, I heard it.

1934
01:03:56,350 --> 01:03:57,369
Highly recommend. I want some of his

1935
01:03:57,370 --> 01:03:58,370
solo work.

1936
01:04:00,330 --> 01:04:03,409
Actually made in

1937
01:04:03,410 --> 01:04:05,548
my like I said in our crazy

1938
01:04:05,549 --> 01:04:07,369
profession I

1939
01:04:07,370 --> 01:04:09,329
ran into this guy

1940
01:04:09,330 --> 01:04:11,749
Ken Mansfield he

1941
01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:14,289
was he

1942
01:04:14,290 --> 01:04:16,849
was manager

1943
01:04:16,850 --> 01:04:18,789
of

1944
01:04:18,790 --> 01:04:20,849
US manager

1945
01:04:20,850 --> 01:04:23,489
for Apple Records for

1946
01:04:23,490 --> 01:04:26,068
the Beatles and and

1947
01:04:26,069 --> 01:04:27,329
we became friends

1948
01:04:29,359 --> 01:04:31,359
And then a bizarre twist of fate,

1949
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:34,879
he wanted to hire me to be,

1950
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:36,959
he was a speaker, a motivational

1951
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:38,939
speaker, and he

1952
01:04:38,940 --> 01:04:40,499
said I'd like to hire you to be my

1953
01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:41,500
manager.

1954
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,899
And I almost did it,

1955
01:04:45,900 --> 01:04:47,739
that was in 2009,

1956
01:04:47,740 --> 01:04:49,039
right after I got out of tournament

1957
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:50,040
fishing.

1958
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:52,459
And Sherry just looked at me and she

1959
01:04:52,460 --> 01:04:54,419
goes, what's

1960
01:04:54,420 --> 01:04:55,420
wrong with you?

1961
01:04:59,279 --> 01:05:00,679
She says, what does that mean?

1962
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,520
I go, well, I have to fly to LA and.

1963
01:05:05,450 --> 01:05:06,669
But to other places,

1964
01:05:07,790 --> 01:05:09,629
a couple times a week,

1965
01:05:09,630 --> 01:05:11,469
Nashville and all over,

1966
01:05:11,470 --> 01:05:12,470
and Sheba.

1967
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:15,619
I'm not doing it.

1968
01:05:15,620 --> 01:05:18,039
She says, no, absolutely not.

1969
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:19,040
She says you're crazy.

1970
01:05:20,779 --> 01:05:21,999
I said, aw, that'd be so cool.

1971
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:23,000
She said, no.

1972
01:05:36,430 --> 01:05:38,028
My Lindy commercial.

1973
01:05:38,029 --> 01:05:39,569
That was like from 80 something.

1974
01:05:41,770 --> 01:05:42,770
Good grief.

1975
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:46,340
Revisiting all this up here.

1976
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:50,470
It's like a different person.

1977
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,399
It's like I was a different person

1978
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:56,400
this year.

1979
01:05:57,580 --> 01:05:59,079
Did that guy know what was coming to

1980
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:00,080
him?

1981
01:06:03,759 --> 01:06:05,679
I cannot believe

1982
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:06,680
I would have thrown that.

1983
01:06:08,770 --> 01:06:10,169
Because I would have thought, man,

1984
01:06:10,170 --> 01:06:11,170
somebody, somebody...

1985
01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:15,509
Nah, I'm not seeing it.

1986
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:23,869
Spider webs up here.

1987
01:06:23,870 --> 01:06:25,349
Last time I've been up there.

1988
01:06:27,069 --> 01:06:28,568
Sorry, guys.

1989
01:06:28,569 --> 01:06:30,589
What's this little short one

1990
01:06:30,590 --> 01:06:31,590
here?

1991
01:06:35,690 --> 01:06:37,590
Beta would have been a shorter box

1992
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:41,960
Okay.

1993
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:45,419
Nah.

1994
01:06:45,420 --> 01:06:46,420
Wait a minute.

1995
01:07:01,700 --> 01:07:02,949
And with a VHS tape.

1996
01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:04,889
Oh yeah,

1997
01:07:04,890 --> 01:07:05,890
this, um...

1998
01:07:07,630 --> 01:07:09,729
This is my promotional

1999
01:07:13,660 --> 01:07:15,499
Like what they

2000
01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:17,079
would play before I would speak.

2001
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:17,879
Oh really?

2002
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:19,758
Yeah, at sports shows.

2003
01:07:19,759 --> 01:07:20,939
They'd pop it in and it would show

2004
01:07:20,940 --> 01:07:22,719
me catching monster fish and all

2005
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:23,720
that crap.

2006
01:07:25,380 --> 01:07:27,298
See, that's what I had on Beta,

2007
01:07:27,299 --> 01:07:28,299
too.

2008
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,519
Because back then, you had to.

2009
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:32,520
You had that both.

2010
01:07:35,220 --> 01:07:36,919
You don't want that at all, do you?

2011
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:38,589
Sure, I mean, don't say no.

2012
01:07:38,590 --> 01:07:39,389
Something to look at.

2013
01:07:39,390 --> 01:07:40,390
Yeah.

2014
01:07:43,490 --> 01:07:45,709
Yeah, the betas were much shorter

2015
01:07:45,710 --> 01:07:47,769
than the V8

2016
01:07:47,770 --> 01:07:48,770
VHS.

2017
01:07:52,190 --> 01:07:53,729
We're good, I'm sure this will work.

2018
01:07:54,930 --> 01:07:56,989
Yeah, because the beta would have

2019
01:07:56,990 --> 01:07:59,269
been the same, same footage,

2020
01:08:01,069 --> 01:08:02,069
crazy.

2021
01:08:04,650 --> 01:08:06,349
I'll give you a couple more shots of

2022
01:08:06,350 --> 01:08:07,350
the stuff in the wall.

2023
01:08:09,340 --> 01:08:12,099
So this Ken guy,

2024
01:08:12,100 --> 01:08:14,219
we meet him and his wife and

2025
01:08:14,220 --> 01:08:15,499
go ahead.

2026
01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:17,759
When those guys were the outlaws,

2027
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,318
that's who managed it.

2028
01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:21,199
And then Jesse

2029
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,179
Coulter, who was

2030
01:08:23,180 --> 01:08:24,569
Waylon Jennings' wife,

2031
01:08:25,620 --> 01:08:28,018
ended up winning a Grammy,

2032
01:08:28,019 --> 01:08:29,879
and he got a Grammy

2033
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,240
because he was remanded, started

2034
01:08:31,241 --> 01:08:33,219
another career,

2035
01:08:33,220 --> 01:08:35,169
young enough to do it.

2036
01:08:35,170 --> 01:08:37,589
So why was he looking to

2037
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:39,449
you to manage, as opposed to someone

2038
01:08:39,450 --> 01:08:41,068
who had a lot of managing

2039
01:08:41,069 --> 01:08:41,719
experience?

2040
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:43,438
Yeah, that's what I said to him.

2041
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,358
He said, I don't have the time to

2042
01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:46,558
do it. He said I'm running around

2043
01:08:46,559 --> 01:08:48,179
speaking all the time.

2044
01:08:48,180 --> 01:08:50,039
He says, I need somebody to book

2045
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:51,999
my flights, book all my

2046
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:53,119
stuff in.

2047
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:54,619
He was trying to do that himself and

2048
01:08:54,620 --> 01:08:56,898
he was having cancer treatments

2049
01:08:56,899 --> 01:08:58,339
and all kinds of stuff going on.

2050
01:08:59,460 --> 01:09:01,339
He says you know how to do this,

2051
01:09:01,340 --> 01:09:03,959
right? I go, yeah.

2052
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:05,818
Yeah, I said, that is what I used to

2053
01:09:05,819 --> 01:09:07,679
do. If I had

2054
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,659
a seminar in New York.

2055
01:09:10,660 --> 01:09:12,518
I would try to book something that

2056
01:09:12,519 --> 01:09:13,358
fluked.

2057
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:14,938
Man, I shouldn't say I fluk quite a

2058
01:09:14,939 --> 01:09:16,818
bit, but when it was my

2059
01:09:16,819 --> 01:09:19,398
own deal, I would drive.

2060
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:21,438
When it was a corporate deal,

2061
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:22,778
they would always pay for the

2062
01:09:22,779 --> 01:09:24,739
flight. So, yeah, of course.

2063
01:09:27,569 --> 01:09:29,469
Some of that was charter, so that

2064
01:09:29,470 --> 01:09:31,349
was nice, just go there and jump

2065
01:09:31,350 --> 01:09:32,709
in the plane and fly away.

2066
01:09:33,990 --> 01:09:35,649
Miami show, Reno,

2067
01:09:37,410 --> 01:09:38,410
Dallas.

2068
01:09:39,970 --> 01:09:41,749
So Miami would still want someone to

2069
01:09:41,750 --> 01:09:42,750
come in and talk about Wallace.

2070
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:45,759
No, but the sponsor would want you

2071
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,079
there to sell boats.

2072
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:50,239
Yeah, yeah, so you'd go down and do

2073
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:51,240
that.

2074
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:54,539
You know, they were opening a new

2075
01:09:54,540 --> 01:09:56,959
bath, South Sponsored by Bass Pro,

2076
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:58,459
so, you know.

2077
01:09:58,460 --> 01:10:00,399
So, at that

2078
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,659
point, when you get to that level,

2079
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,119
they sponsored, well, I have to go.

2080
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:07,780
So, I fly to Dallas,

2081
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,579
land at Dallas Fort Worth,

2082
01:10:11,580 --> 01:10:12,580
and, uh,

2083
01:10:14,370 --> 01:10:16,249
this Bass Pro.

2084
01:10:16,250 --> 01:10:17,888
So you get there and there's a limo

2085
01:10:17,889 --> 01:10:20,129
driver with your name and

2086
01:10:20,130 --> 01:10:22,749
you get down there and

2087
01:10:22,750 --> 01:10:24,609
you jump and they drive you right

2088
01:10:24,610 --> 01:10:25,689
straight to the show.

2089
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:30,209
You get there, you walk in,

2090
01:10:30,210 --> 01:10:32,929
big celebrity, and all that crap.

2091
01:10:32,930 --> 01:10:36,349
And sit down to sign autographs.

2092
01:10:36,350 --> 01:10:37,829
And they're going, they know me,

2093
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:39,869
because no idea.

2094
01:10:39,870 --> 01:10:41,529
But they did.

2095
01:10:41,530 --> 01:10:42,888
And they said, oh, man, I feel bad

2096
01:10:42,889 --> 01:10:44,669
for you.

2097
01:10:44,670 --> 01:10:46,169
I'll be down here in Bass Country

2098
01:10:46,170 --> 01:10:47,149
and blah, blah, blah.

2099
01:10:47,150 --> 01:10:50,069
And they bring a stack of

2100
01:10:50,070 --> 01:10:51,929
your picture to sign, with

2101
01:10:51,930 --> 01:10:53,129
your stats on it.

2102
01:10:53,130 --> 01:10:54,599
So we all had these stacks.
Grandsons,

2103
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:55,939
that's what you're always, well,

2104
01:10:55,940 --> 01:10:56,940
great-grandsons.

2105
01:10:57,790 --> 01:10:59,669
Well my mom's 96

2106
01:10:59,670 --> 01:11:01,569
and she's

2107
01:11:01,570 --> 01:11:03,529
she's my biggest fan but my mom

2108
01:11:03,530 --> 01:11:06,289
is my second biggest fan

2109
01:11:06,290 --> 01:11:08,249
because that was her dad

2110
01:11:08,250 --> 01:11:10,209
and her husband, my

2111
01:11:10,210 --> 01:11:12,789
dad, who taught me how to fish so

2112
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:14,808
she goes to these events I

2113
01:11:14,809 --> 01:11:16,629
speak at and she just

2114
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:18,309
stands up and birds it right out.

2115
01:11:21,330 --> 01:11:23,149
Yeah, this is

2116
01:11:23,150 --> 01:11:24,150
a...

2117
01:11:25,970 --> 01:11:27,909
She's pretty proud,

2118
01:11:27,910 --> 01:11:29,449
so that always makes, it's nice to

2119
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:30,969
have an appearance that's proud of

2120
01:11:30,970 --> 01:11:32,849
you, you know, and I'm glad

2121
01:11:32,850 --> 01:11:34,109
she's still around.

2122
01:11:34,110 --> 01:11:35,550
I mean, she's doing great, she is.

2123
01:11:37,610 --> 01:11:39,768
Yeah, lives alone,

2124
01:11:39,769 --> 01:11:40,970
does all our own stuff,

2125
01:11:42,150 --> 01:11:44,549
doesn't bother at all,

2126
01:11:44,550 --> 01:11:46,929
goes down by the river,

2127
01:11:46,930 --> 01:11:48,530
down that river bank, down the

2128
01:11:48,531 --> 01:11:50,459
river. For an hour

2129
01:11:50,460 --> 01:11:51,919
or two.

2130
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,999
He's big on putting

2131
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,119
pieces in.

2132
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,439
I'm big on questions.

2133
01:11:58,530 --> 01:12:00,569
That is so foreign

2134
01:12:00,570 --> 01:12:02,449
to the frenetic life

2135
01:12:02,450 --> 01:12:04,029
I used to live.

2136
01:12:04,030 --> 01:12:05,609
I just sit there and put a puzzle

2137
01:12:05,610 --> 01:12:06,610
together.

2138
01:12:08,190 --> 01:12:11,149
But I have to do it.

2139
01:12:11,150 --> 01:12:13,249
So when she gets it out, I have

2140
01:12:13,250 --> 01:12:15,089
do it, and I have get

2141
01:12:15,090 --> 01:12:16,929
it done as soon as possible.

2142
01:12:16,930 --> 01:12:18,469
So it's still frenetic.

2143
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:20,638
It's still competitive.

2144
01:12:20,639 --> 01:12:22,739
Yes, he is that way when

2145
01:12:22,740 --> 01:12:24,518
we watch Jeopardy!

2146
01:12:24,519 --> 01:12:26,638
And every day at 4 30

2147
01:12:26,639 --> 01:12:28,638
and we sit

2148
01:12:28,639 --> 01:12:30,619
together holding hands and we watch

2149
01:12:30,620 --> 01:12:32,699
jeopardy and and he

2150
01:12:32,700 --> 01:12:34,579
answers all the questions I get one

2151
01:12:34,580 --> 01:12:36,499
or two in an hour you know

2152
01:12:36,500 --> 01:12:38,339
she's like how do

2153
01:12:38,340 --> 01:12:39,979
you know that and why do you know

2154
01:12:39,980 --> 01:12:41,819
that some of them are

2155
01:12:41,820 --> 01:12:43,669
so off the grid I

2156
01:12:43,670 --> 01:12:45,159
don't know. But yeah.

2157
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:46,899
It's just, I don't know, I retain

2158
01:12:46,900 --> 01:12:48,779
information well,

2159
01:12:48,780 --> 01:12:50,599
so I'm

2160
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:51,600
very used to it at least.

2161
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:54,399
You know that story, I've forgotten

2162
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:55,558
more about fishing.

2163
01:12:55,559 --> 01:12:57,558
I get going on a fishing talk,

2164
01:12:57,559 --> 01:12:58,920
I can, I remember everything.

2165
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,119
And you add a few

2166
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,659
things to it to make it

2167
01:13:05,660 --> 01:13:06,660
more fun.

2168
01:13:10,110 --> 01:13:11,110
Detail.

2169
01:13:14,410 --> 01:13:17,229
You can't

2170
01:13:17,230 --> 01:13:19,929
be Mike Iaconelli, you know.

2171
01:13:19,930 --> 01:13:21,349
I mean, there's one Mike Iconelli.

2172
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:22,749
Don't try to be like him.

2173
01:13:22,750 --> 01:13:23,750
He's nuts,

2174
01:13:25,590 --> 01:13:28,629
but he's

2175
01:13:28,630 --> 01:13:29,849
also easier at the top of the

2176
01:13:29,850 --> 01:13:31,388
mountain or the bottom of the cliff,

2177
01:13:31,389 --> 01:13:33,409
you can't be that either.

2178
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:38,109
So, and I like Mike.

2179
01:13:38,110 --> 01:13:39,789
Mike is, Mike's gotten older, he's

2180
01:13:39,790 --> 01:13:40,790
smelling a little bit,

2181
01:13:41,849 --> 01:13:44,009
but, and a lot of that was shtick.

2182
01:13:44,010 --> 01:13:45,949
I mean, that's not the real

2183
01:13:45,950 --> 01:13:48,768
Mike. I can only seriously,

2184
01:13:48,769 --> 01:13:50,649
a lot that was just part of

2185
01:13:50,650 --> 01:13:51,949
the show, but that's okay.

2186
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:53,769
You know, that made him a career.

2187
01:13:56,650 --> 01:13:58,629
You know they don't,

2188
01:13:58,630 --> 01:14:01,169
media don't like boring people.

2189
01:14:01,170 --> 01:14:02,449
You know you have, you know they

2190
01:14:02,450 --> 01:14:04,370
want people that- Personalities