We're talking about these issues
in this country that we've never had
to research before.
My producer,
when we were planning for your
interview, she pulled out the
Constitution. She's like, I don't
leave the house without my
Constitution. Now that she keeps it
in her pocket, she's like, All
right, let's go
do it. We got it.
We will.
Keep it right.
Here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We got to do what we have to do.
Have you heard that at this point
of ice stopping
any Ho-Chunk members.
We have
through social media?
I heard folks that have reported
that they have either identified or
seen ice in the area.
Some have indicated that they have
been questioned by Ice officials.
To date,
we don't have any confirmation, nor
would this nation go out and seek
confirmation of that.
You know, these are
fairly civil matters.
And so we're not going to be there
when you get a speeding ticket or
hit a deer or, you know.
But but for the most part,
you know, if folks feel
like they have
encountered Ice officials,
a lot of times people will post that
on social media and
it goes like wildfire.
So so if
they're if they're trying to do
anything
incognito, good
luck. This day and age.
That doesn't happen.
We will they will put signs
all around you and see.
So but there has
been a couple posted
messages on social
media that indicated that they
either were questioned by Ice
officials or have seen them.
Are people in Ho-Chunk Nation
telling you that they are fearful
right now?
Yes.
Overall,
you know, it's fair,
you know, when you have to
be strong for a family, but you send
your brown kids out the door and you
don't have control over,
you know, their environment.
You know, we and this is
something that is endemic to a lot
of tribal communities that
we we worry about our kids every day
before Ice, you know, we didn't
need ice to to scare us and
make us feel uneasy as parents.
So so, yeah,
there is that uneasy uneasiness.
What helps to provide assurances
as our
schools and local businesses
and things that provide, you
know, shorties that, you know, we
we aren't here for Ice.
We're not reporting people.
We are you know, we're here for
your comfort and we are our
community where your friends, your
family, your neighbors, your your
blood relatives in a lot of cases.
So having those in
communities that are
very
alert that,
you know, things are going on, even
some of the law enforcement that I
spoke with, you know, who have
given me comfort to tell me
we've spoken with our
field agents, our field officers
that are out there and let them know
that, hey, to see, you know, when
people pull you over, they might not
even know that you're a county
officer or a city cop or
a state police
trooper.
They might just think of you as ice
right off the bat.
So be
be alert that they may be
on alert as well.
So, you know, try to be as gracious
as possible and in clear
and polite and kind.
I read your executive order on
Facebook and you're offering
the tribal ID card for free
and also passport reimbursement
for free.
Why offer it for
free for Ho-Chunk tribal members
and how is it being funded?
So first of all, the
why
the United States passport
is probably what
I feel is the most
legitimate form of and universally
accepted form of identification.
And so the
scrutiny for securing your passport
is pretty significant.
They're not cheap.
They are definitely not cheap.
And I just think it's a it's an
interesting business because,
you know, most of the folks that
want a passport.
That normally wouldn't get one.
Usually you want it to go on a trip.
Sometimes between the time that they
needed to get a passport and they're
going to leave for that trip is a
window of time that
probably does not accommodate
the passport processing.
So these add on fees start coming
up for either
expedited or urgent
special delivery, you know, next
day delivery.
And so these these passports
that could, you know, retail
from $165
could jump up to $500
if you need that in a very short
period of time
as well. They may provide
an option for a card and maybe
maybe you want to get an ID card.
What what
I feel is important is just to get
the passport.
We we are not
in an emergency.
Some may look at it as an
opportunity, like.
Yeah, get a passport.
The president's making it really
easy for you. You may not even have
to worry about going anywhere.
It's just an opportunity that folks
have as well.
I had placed out there because of
bloodlines and lineage and blood
quantum.
I tried to do
my best to articulate that the
passport will be available to
tribal members and
their children, whether or not they
are enrolled in Rollerball
or not enrolled.
And so I want to have
something available for them to do
that.
The funding for this is
a part of our annual budget.
And I'm able to move
funding around from
unexpended funds into a coffer
with a designation that that
will be used most.
Oftentimes, we could use it in an
emergency.
You know, we already know
that just like our home,
no matter how stringent we are to a
budget, we do and see
unanticipated costs that come up.
And this would this is where this
would fall into.
Okay.
And my last question on tribal IDs.
Your order came out Monday and it's
Wednesday. What's the reaction been?
Hopefully, I never know.
The processing for
tribal ID cards or
any ID cards should
be protected by the
tribal member in the enrollment
division.
The tribal member.
Even Even the tribal member
in the United States passport.
We we don't stick
our nose into their business.
All we need is a receipt.
We don't even need to know how many
people got their their tribal IDs
or their CD abs.
We
we also have a responsibility to
protect our tribal members
from a rampant
abuse of of information gathering,
fraud, misuse,
waste, and,
you know, providing those security
features, making sure that
those processing, even within the
enrollment division, they don't even
share information among themselves.
So so I may not
know that number.
I and I and I don't want to, but
yeah, I'm guessing that we've
because we've opened this up to
mail order as well.
And through links on our home
page, we
probably see a lot more people
utilizing that application.
We still have the same requirements.
We're not going to print off IDs,
storming the envelope and send them
out the door. We are going to make
sure that we can verify
those individuals who are
requesting.
Okay.
And before I go into our last topic
of the UW Madison program,
I want to ask you, as a leader
with so much on social media and so
much a lot happening
in a short amount of time,
how do you calm
the community's fears?
Some of my colleagues were always
telling me that
if your leaders look nervous,
your people will look nervous.
And if your leaders look strong.
They'll look strong.
You know, So
you do things like you would if you
were a parent.
You know, you
you smile.
You'd be kind.
You'd be calm.
You don't manufacture
a bunch of paper dragons and start
running around from them, you
know?
And when I say as a parent, you
know, we have stressors.
We have bills, we have.
Things that we want that we're not
able to get for our children.
But we don't convey that on them.
We don't put that on them.
We want them to feel empowered and
feel feel safe.
And so there's no way
I can do that if I run around
like we just had an emergency in the
sky is falling.
I love these people.
Not going to do that.
So thank you for that.
Now on to something positive
which will intersect with treaty.
But the UW Madison,
about a year, year and a half ago
now, they launched a new program
to offer free tuition,
room and board to
all Native students in
Wisconsin who are accepted to
UW Madison specifically
to go to school.
I interviewed their tribal director,
Karla.
And she says hello.
She says now they have about
their first year, about 80
students at the batterers level,
including also graduate
medical students and law students
using the program.
So how do you feel about that?
I think it's a great start.
I think
the Wisconsin promise.
Is a very old promise
that is finally getting kept,
at least at the UW level.
At least at the college level.
Education has always been
one of the highest and hardest
struggles for communities,
whether they're communities
of color and racial
groups or
communities that had suffered
through economic deprivation for
generations.
Education is also
the cure for poverty and the cure
for racism.
The cure for a lot of
social epidemics that we we go
through.
If we were to take a regressive
analysis of of communities
that that
aren't dealing with
opioid addiction, poverty,
domestic abuse, elder abuse,
you will find in most cases,
you will find affluent communities
who aren't just old money and
generationally rich, but
communities that are sophisticated
and educated to
and have opportunities for
professional development.
And we haven't had that
for a long time.
So
you to be Madison is is really
sourcing the cure
and making it really
hard to not go to college
and and develop
some sort of personal value,
academic value, academic capital
for a community to build on.
So I do believe it's a
it's a promise.
I'll be elated, but but a promise
kept.
There's well, there's services
for Native students on campus.
There is an indigenous student house
that I'm going to visit on campus,
which are great initiatives and
great programs to support Native
students.
But we know UW Madison
is on hold Chunk
land.
Can you take us back and tell you
about the treaties of the 1800s?
I think 1837
that brought us to where we are in
modern education with the university
on Ho-Chunk Land.
Well.
The 1837 treaty
wasn't a revered treaty at
all. These are
forced agreements to
cede our land.
Such as that particular treaty
move west of the Mississippi.
And,
you know, and we relinquish
our ownership of
our historic.
Holmes And,
you know, we
we did so, you know, under
conditions that were
not of our making.
We had eight months
to vacate.
But then we didn't.
And in the coldest parts of
the winter, they shipped us in rail
cars across to
the neutral ground.
And, you know, we.
We suffered a lot
for that. But we always
had this mantra among
our people that we would,
you know, in our in our many returns
offer at least seven
returns.
So that we would rather die on our
land and live somewhere else
and.
The treaty.
History is pretty profound
and deep on
the face of it. It not only
provides historical markers
for engagement, but it also
validates and verifies our
nation's status as as
a sovereign that we have always been
looked upon as that
these treaties eventually
become the vehicles for
early shared governance between
tribal groups.
And these are before
the tribal nations have really
consolidated into one government
because that's not how we were
organized.
Nobody was really organized that
way.
It wasn't until 1934
with the Indian Reorganization
Act that
the federal government forced
consolidated governance
on tribes by
creating models for government and
selling the idea our concept, so
that they could move forward
on Elko, which wasn't even
a law. Back then, the Indian Land
Consolidation Initiative,
so that we had one owner rather
than a number of years.
And so
so the treaties gave way to
a lot and substantiated our
abilities to negotiate not
only with local governments,
but also later on with
these other governments that were
starting up with the education
campuses with the UW.
So it played a significant role.
But again, you know, I don't think
there was anywhere at
that particular time that
any representatives, any
any.
Representatives of authority
could walk away from one of those
agreements and say they were the
beneficiary of something, even if
they were given money as they were
in 1837, even if they were given
goods in food and
horses and some of means.
I can't believe that they would feel
that they've walked away with an
advantage.
So I think in retrospect,
we see the saliency of those
treaties that benefited us to
evolve our relationship with the
UAW, Dane County
eventually, and the state of
Wisconsin.
Tell me about the
values of Ho-Chunk
people, not just then,
but even still now.
Yeah. So
the Ho-Chunk rides
on a couple of principles and
and sometimes we
because of a lot of Westernization,
that the spectrum changes a little
bit for the traditionals.
We talk about Will Quixote,
which means a love
for one another.
Or why shock is
a is a general and accepted respect
for each other that we keep amongst
us, which means that, you know, we
are not combative amongst ourselves.
Now, don't get me wrong, we we
are a warrior tribe.
This is where we come from.
And each one of our traditional way
of life is built around
our warriors, not simply
a political podium speech about
their love for veterans.
We are a warrior tribe
and we are here because of that.
But we also are a loving tribe
and we embrace our friends
and neighbors and family.
And we we work for the greater good.
That hasn't changed over
hundreds of years.
We do struggle with
Western as a nation.
And this there are inadvertent
outcomes of how
we are raised in modern society.
And it could be today, it
could be could be in the 90s.
You know, in our own models of
learning, we we always
talk about the Western education.
We want to be right
or wrong with answers that
are up or down.
True or false?
One to a B,
and there's no alternative to that.
In our Ho-Chunk culture.
However, we're not so objectives.
We are come from an oral tradition
thousands of years, which means
that you could take
a group of friends to a movie and
every one of you would have a
different.
Interpretation of what that movie
was about.
But those would be wrong.
And it's okay to
have it that way.
Unfortunately, you know, that
model of education, you know,
the Western education now on people
that have for thousands of years
done things this way really
was was a hindrance.
Advancing beyond that.
You know, we we
try and the newest way
is the old way.
And a lot of this stuff to
go forward is to go backwards,
to learn our language, to
learn our kinship, to learn our clan
system and our clan
responsibilities, to learn our
history.
Which is really important because
we're at a day and age
where the.
Agenda of the White
House is to erase that
history, is to make it
go away because
it doesn't make us look good.
Cultures change.
Futures can change, but history
doesn't change.
History can be written from
different perspectives, but it
doesn't change.
And you know it.
I fear the future
of my grandchild
not being able to
learn the things that have happened
not only in her cultural history,
but also in American
history.
And we need to know these things
that would you know, I would never
want my what's in the news.
I would never want my airplane
mechanic to forget
the principles that he or she
learned back in aviation
school.
Because they were wrong or they
were different, you know.
We as a society don't do that or
shouldn't do it.
So
those are some of the items that,
you know, the fundamental principles
that we have that we retain
and why we retain them or how
we do. And I do
emphasize struggle because,
you know, we're not just competing
with.
The Western culture.
You know, it's it's we're
competing in our own homes, you
know, with our children who learn
math a different way or, you know,
no longer can you write cursive.
And, you know, so we as parents
are we're we're in a struggle of our
lives right now.
Yeah. Yeah.
And it's and it's complicated.
It's complicated.
And I'll end with this.
You know, I earlier this month,
I spent time in Menominee Nation.
I went to the language school there,
beautiful campus school.
And I was telling them about the CW
program, working on this story.
And many students there
said they'd never they never heard
about this opportunity.
You know, they're living a life and
they never heard that they can apply
to this program and that
they can tell other friends and
different nations and different
tribes that they can apply for this
program.
They're going to watch this.
One girl said, I'm waiting for it.
I'm waiting for you to send it to
me. What would you say
to Native youth right now
about the present culture
and about their education and the
future and that are feeling all
kinds of questions?
What would you say to the Indigenous
youth right now?
If you were ever fortunate
to hear an elder
tell you what you're going to need
to survive.
The skills that you're going to have
to have.
You will know now that
they are needed more than ever.
Things that you were taught,
things that you lament that you
may not have been paying attention
for are now more important
than ever to feed your families,
to educate yourself, to
bring food on the table,
to pay your bills.
Everything that you were taught, all
those old principles, all the
new principles are now more
important than ever.
Your tribal nation needs you.
You are important.
You are valued.
Go out.
Learn their ways.
Build yourself.
Make yourself strong.
Come back to the communities that
need you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you. It's really powerful.
Thank you so much.
This is great.
Thank you.
I think that's why we
got a lot of ground.
I hope he.
Had a record because that's
something I wouldn't have done.
I think.