1
00:00:00,670 --> 00:00:02,109
Assaulted and some of them even

2
00:00:02,110 --> 00:00:04,049
killed and yeah

3
00:00:04,050 --> 00:00:05,989
doesn't get much attention and that

4
00:00:05,990 --> 00:00:07,809
just is it is

5
00:00:07,810 --> 00:00:08,810
where it is

6
00:00:10,610 --> 00:00:11,610
Seems out of whack sometimes.

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00:00:12,740 --> 00:00:14,060
No, I hear what you're saying.

8
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,419
La Crosse County District Attorney

9
00:00:32,420 --> 00:00:34,339
Tim Greenke joins us now

10
00:00:34,340 --> 00:00:35,840
and thanks very much for being here.

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00:00:38,150 --> 00:00:39,969
So why did you seek this resolution

12
00:00:39,970 --> 00:00:41,169
with Ridgeland Farms?

13
00:00:44,199 --> 00:00:46,099
Well, the conclusion I came to

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00:00:46,100 --> 00:00:48,039
is that I could charge one

15
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:49,999
of the types

16
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,299
of things that I was referred to by

17
00:00:51,300 --> 00:00:53,319
the judge in Dane County, and

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00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,020
I was going to charge that.

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00:00:56,140 --> 00:00:57,559
But charging that would only have

20
00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:58,879
started a process that probably

21
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,719
would have taken six months

22
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:01,939
to a year to get to trial.

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00:01:01,940 --> 00:01:02,999
There were some issues that could

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00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:04,919
have been appealed.

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00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,179
So charging it would have just been

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00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:08,139
the start of a process.

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00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:10,819
When the farm offered to

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close down in exchange of charging.

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00:01:13,450 --> 00:01:15,049
I thought that was a good outcome

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00:01:15,050 --> 00:01:16,769
because even if I had charged and

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00:01:16,770 --> 00:01:17,809
convicted them, I still had no

32
00:01:17,810 --> 00:01:20,009
authority to pose them down.

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00:01:20,010 --> 00:01:21,409
And the fines that they had been

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00:01:21,410 --> 00:01:22,729
charged with as well, they could

35
00:01:22,730 --> 00:01:24,929
have just paid and kept on running.

36
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So I thought them ending the

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00:01:26,770 --> 00:01:28,889
business is what most people wanted

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00:01:28,890 --> 00:01:30,509
and it's more than I could do by

39
00:01:30,510 --> 00:01:31,929
charging and it would happen much

40
00:01:31,930 --> 00:01:33,909
quicker than me charging.

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00:01:33,910 --> 00:01:35,489
So I felt that was good resolution

42
00:01:35,490 --> 00:01:37,449
to have them agree to

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00:01:37,450 --> 00:01:39,029
end their business in exchange for

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00:01:39,030 --> 00:01:40,369
not charging a crime.

45
00:01:40,370 --> 00:01:42,269
So the resolution

46
00:01:42,270 --> 00:01:44,169
effectively closes down the

47
00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:45,529
operation because I thought that

48
00:01:45,530 --> 00:01:46,829
under the deal they'd still be able

49
00:01:46,830 --> 00:01:48,769
to maintain their own

50
00:01:48,770 --> 00:01:50,990
research on remaining animals.

51
00:01:52,810 --> 00:01:54,289
Correct, there's two parts of the

52
00:01:54,290 --> 00:01:55,069
business.

53
00:01:55,070 --> 00:01:56,209
The part where they do their own

54
00:01:56,210 --> 00:01:58,029
research, I was never part of, I had

55
00:01:58,030 --> 00:01:59,689
no authority over them.

56
00:01:59,690 --> 00:02:01,989
The judge didn't involve that

57
00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:03,849
in the appointment of my

58
00:02:03,850 --> 00:02:05,229
special prosecution.

59
00:02:05,230 --> 00:02:06,889
So that was an issue I had no

60
00:02:06,890 --> 00:02:08,168
control over from the start.

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00:02:08,169 --> 00:02:10,209
So whether they continue on or don't

62
00:02:10,210 --> 00:02:11,049
is up to them.

63
00:02:11,050 --> 00:02:12,369
And I had, I have no control over

64
00:02:12,370 --> 00:02:14,209
it. The only control I had was on

65
00:02:14,210 --> 00:02:16,129
the breeding part, which

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00:02:16,130 --> 00:02:17,349
is the part they agreed to shut

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00:02:17,350 --> 00:02:18,149
down.

68
00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:19,769
And that's as far as my authority

69
00:02:19,770 --> 00:02:20,729
could take me.

70
00:02:20,730 --> 00:02:22,549
Do you have any idea how

71
00:02:22,550 --> 00:02:24,569
many dogs are still at

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00:02:24,570 --> 00:02:26,629
Ridgeland farms and would

73
00:02:26,630 --> 00:02:28,929
Wisconsin statutes render

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00:02:28,930 --> 00:02:31,109
Ridgelands immune from any

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00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:33,009
future prosecution based on

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00:02:33,010 --> 00:02:34,029
what they're doing there being

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00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:35,030
researched?

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00:02:36,690 --> 00:02:38,749
Um, well, the first question, I

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00:02:38,750 --> 00:02:39,929
don't know how many dogs are there

80
00:02:39,930 --> 00:02:40,809
currently.

81
00:02:40,810 --> 00:02:42,649
Um, I'm not keeping up to date

82
00:02:42,650 --> 00:02:44,609
with them on a daily basis.

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00:02:44,610 --> 00:02:46,649
I'm relying on the state agencies

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00:02:46,650 --> 00:02:48,729
to confirm at

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00:02:48,730 --> 00:02:50,169
some point before July 1st that

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00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:51,869
they're, uh, surrounding their

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00:02:51,870 --> 00:02:52,889
license and they're out of their

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00:02:52,890 --> 00:02:54,009
business. So if they did anything

89
00:02:54,010 --> 00:02:55,289
after that, they'd be doing it

90
00:02:55,290 --> 00:02:56,549
without a license and could be

91
00:02:56,550 --> 00:02:57,550
prosecuted.

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00:02:59,380 --> 00:03:01,499
Federal law and the state law exempt

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00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:03,459
research facilities and research

94
00:03:03,460 --> 00:03:05,119
on animals from the animal cruelty

95
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,939
law. So if they are

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00:03:06,940 --> 00:03:09,059
doing research on dogs

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00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:11,119
under the federal grant of authority

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00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,219
under the USDA, the

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00:03:13,220 --> 00:03:15,419
state statutes exempt that from

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prosecution.

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00:03:16,460 --> 00:03:17,579
So that's why I never had any

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00:03:17,580 --> 00:03:19,079
authority over them and wouldn't in

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00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,839
the future if they continue testing

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00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,009
on animals.

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00:03:22,010 --> 00:03:24,109
Did this week's sale and release

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of 1,500 of the

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Beagles there come as a surprise to

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you?

109
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When we negotiated this last

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fall, the idea always was

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that they would be

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closing down.

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And as that process went

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on, they would be getting

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rid of their beagles by selling them

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off. Or if they couldn't sell them,

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putting them up for adoption.

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And they had kind of estimated a

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time range.

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And this was kind of the end of that

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time range that they thought they

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would be doing that.

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00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:55,679
We picked July 1st just so there

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wouldn't be any delay and a need to

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kind of renegotiate things.

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But we always, I was always told

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that.

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About April or May, they would be

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hopefully winding down and getting

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rid of all their dogs.

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So it wasn't a surprise to me that

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this is how they did it.

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That was always their intent.

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Getting back to the specifics

135
00:04:11,790 --> 00:04:13,789
of your investigation, you did

136
00:04:13,790 --> 00:04:15,589
find that you could support charging

137
00:04:15,590 --> 00:04:17,749
on one procedure conducted

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00:04:17,750 --> 00:04:19,489
on these beagles.

139
00:04:19,490 --> 00:04:20,690
Can you describe what that was?

140
00:04:22,690 --> 00:04:23,749
It's called the cherry eye

141
00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:25,609
procedure. It's basically

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an eye gland that

143
00:04:27,750 --> 00:04:30,089
is swollen or prolapsed

144
00:04:30,090 --> 00:04:32,309
that has to be removed.

145
00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:34,349
If you were doing it with a pet,

146
00:04:34,350 --> 00:04:36,269
it would be an expensive procedure

147
00:04:36,270 --> 00:04:38,369
and you'd wanna have

148
00:04:38,370 --> 00:04:40,889
a licensed veterinarian doing it.

149
00:04:40,890 --> 00:04:42,369
They were doing the way they'd been

150
00:04:42,370 --> 00:04:44,129
doing it in decades past, which is

151
00:04:44,130 --> 00:04:46,289
kind of outdated, which was removing

152
00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:48,209
the gland without general anesthesia

153
00:04:48,210 --> 00:04:49,989
and without having a licensed

154
00:04:49,990 --> 00:04:50,990
veterinary do it.

155
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,999
So when the veterinary board decided

156
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,799
that they would revoke the main

157
00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,159
veterinarian's license because it

158
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,219
didn't meet their standard of care,

159
00:05:00,220 --> 00:05:02,219
that's what I thought.

160
00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:03,219
If they're violating that standard

161
00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:04,399
of of care that allows me to charge

162
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,539
the case.

163
00:05:05,540 --> 00:05:07,139
Honestly, if they had found that it

164
00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:08,899
did not fall below the veterinarian

165
00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:10,239
standards, I'm not sure I would have

166
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,740
had a legal authority to go forward.

167
00:05:12,860 --> 00:05:14,879
But basically they were performing

168
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:15,880
a surgery

169
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,139
without proper veterinary methods

170
00:05:19,140 --> 00:05:21,229
required by the state of Wisconsin.

171
00:05:21,230 --> 00:05:22,889
One thing that you talked about in

172
00:05:22,890 --> 00:05:24,849
your charging decision was the

173
00:05:24,850 --> 00:05:26,809
prospect of euthanasia of

174
00:05:26,810 --> 00:05:27,589
the beagles.

175
00:05:27,590 --> 00:05:28,790
Why did you consider that?

176
00:05:32,039 --> 00:05:33,519
The, I'm sorry, the prospect of

177
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:34,520
euthanasia.

178
00:05:35,050 --> 00:05:36,050
Or euthanasia.

179
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,579
Being familiar with a lot of farmers

180
00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:44,359
growing up and farmers in the La

181
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,879
Crosse area that I talk to,

182
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,179
you know, and they have animals that

183
00:05:48,180 --> 00:05:50,259
are injured or

184
00:05:50,260 --> 00:05:52,119
need some help, they have

185
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,019
the right to euthanize them,

186
00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:55,579
as long as it's done humanely.

187
00:05:57,780 --> 00:05:59,919
You had a dairy farm or a pig farm

188
00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,799
where an animal had some injuries.

189
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,839
If it costs more than the cost that

190
00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:06,219
animal is to you, most farmers

191
00:06:06,220 --> 00:06:07,659
would, would put it down.

192
00:06:07,660 --> 00:06:09,119
And so in this case, if.

193
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:13,199
Richard farms are required to go to

194
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,259
such an extent to,

195
00:06:15,260 --> 00:06:17,279
you know, surgery on the dogs, they

196
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,659
could just euthanize them.

197
00:06:19,660 --> 00:06:20,999
And so that was a factor in my

198
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,979
charging decision that it's not

199
00:06:22,980 --> 00:06:24,899
a place that was breeding dogs

200
00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:26,639
for sale for pets.

201
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,499
It's a farm like a turkey

202
00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:29,639
farm or a pig farm where you're

203
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,159
breeding them for food or for in

204
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,799
this case, testing.

205
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:33,939
So it's that looked at the same

206
00:06:33,940 --> 00:06:35,719
under the veterinary standards or

207
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,039
under the law.

208
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,019
And so, that just reality of the

209
00:06:39,020 --> 00:06:40,399
economics of farms that are doing

210
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:41,400
business.

211
00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:45,179
As a DA who prosecutes

212
00:06:45,180 --> 00:06:47,499
homicides, and you're

213
00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:49,999
currently in the midst of a homicide

214
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,000
case,

215
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,079
still did it pull on your

216
00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:54,919
heartstrings to pour over evidence

217
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,819
in this case, especially

218
00:06:56,820 --> 00:06:58,999
as we know that you are

219
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,919
a Beagle owner and a fan of Beagles,

220
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:02,919
actually have a painting of one in

221
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:03,920
your office.

222
00:07:05,910 --> 00:07:07,809
Yes, I, like

223
00:07:07,810 --> 00:07:10,109
most people, like dogs and like

224
00:07:10,110 --> 00:07:12,049
beagles are, in my opinion,

225
00:07:12,050 --> 00:07:13,050
some of the cuter dogs.

226
00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:15,529
It's heartbreaking to see them in

227
00:07:15,530 --> 00:07:17,549
cages and heartbreaking to

228
00:07:17,550 --> 00:07:19,589
them not

229
00:07:19,590 --> 00:07:21,329
being socialized properly, not being

230
00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:23,149
able to run free and do

231
00:07:23,150 --> 00:07:24,170
what dogs do.

232
00:07:25,210 --> 00:07:27,569
But the law allows for

233
00:07:27,570 --> 00:07:29,029
this behavior on a farm.

234
00:07:30,710 --> 00:07:31,809
You know, I've been to farms before

235
00:07:31,810 --> 00:07:33,509
with friends of mine that grew up on

236
00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:35,439
farms the way the cows

237
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,699
were treated, I didn't like.

238
00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:39,619
But when you've got 100, 200

239
00:07:39,620 --> 00:07:41,939
cattle or cows,

240
00:07:41,940 --> 00:07:42,819
they're not gonna be treated the

241
00:07:42,820 --> 00:07:44,459
same as a pet.

242
00:07:44,460 --> 00:07:45,999
And same goes for other types of

243
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:46,799
animals.

244
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,559
So if you don't think of this as

245
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,399
your pet, or think of it as

246
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,799
raising dogs to be pets, but think

247
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:52,859
of as a farm,

248
00:07:53,860 --> 00:07:55,379
it's a little bit different.

249
00:07:55,380 --> 00:07:57,319
And the standards are different.

250
00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,159
The way they're gonna be treat is

251
00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,499
different.

252
00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:00,660
And the reasons are,

253
00:08:01,780 --> 00:08:03,759
It should be obvious that they're

254
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,239
not going to get pets.

255
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,099
That can be considered pets.

256
00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:08,159
So as long as you're following the

257
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,979
USDA regulations and the DACAP

258
00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:11,819
regulations, the fact that

259
00:08:11,820 --> 00:08:13,039
I don't like it or we don't it

260
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,779
doesn't mean that we could charge a

261
00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:16,539
crime. So I was relying mostly on

262
00:08:16,540 --> 00:08:18,719
the state regulators, inspectors

263
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,339
that are experts in this area

264
00:08:21,340 --> 00:08:23,239
and going by their advice on what

265
00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,559
they normally see on farms,

266
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:26,999
dog breeders.

267
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,899
And that's why

268
00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:29,739
one of the reasons I came with the

269
00:08:29,740 --> 00:08:31,199
decision I came to about this

270
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,200
behavior.

271
00:08:32,809 --> 00:08:33,709
We leave it there.

272
00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:34,749
DA, Tim Greenke.

273
00:08:34,750 --> 00:08:35,750
Thanks very much.

274
00:08:42,059 --> 00:08:43,380
Good luck with your criminal case.

275
00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:46,579
Good luck to you and say hi to Gary.

276
00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:47,979
I will, I will.

277
00:08:47,980 --> 00:08:48,980
Thank you.