Welcome to a conversation with
candidates for the superintendent of
public instruction.
My name is Tracy Presley,
and I serve as the education chair
for the Wisconsin State Conference
of Branches of the NAACP.
It is an honor to co-host this
important discussion alongside
our valued partners, the
Wisconsin Public Education Network,
the League of Women Voters of
Wisconsin, and the Wisconsin
Early Childhood Action needed.
I am pleased to be joined tonight by
members of my committee, Dorothy
Harrell from the Beloit Branch,
Valerie Davis, and Dr. Richard
McGregory from Dane County Branch.
For over a century, the NAACP
has championed the right to a
high quality education for
all students.
We believe that rigorous,
well-resourced, and student-centered
public schools are the Foundation
for a Thriving Society.
in that every child,
regardless of background, deserves
access to an education
that is engaging,
research-based, and prepares them
for success in an evolving world.
Our organization remains committed
to advancing policies that
uphold civil rights and ensures
success for all students.
We sincerely thank Brittany
Kinzer and Dr. Jill Underlee
for their commitment to engaging
in this important conversation,
Thanks for watching! We recognize
the critical role that the next
superintendent of public instruction
will play in shaping the
future of Wisconsin schools.
And we look forward to working with
the next leader to develop policies
that strengthen literacy,
support educators, and empower
students to become leaders in
the evolving landscape of education,
not only in Wisconsin, but across
the United States.
And a special thank you to our
moderator, Dr. Kevin Lawrence.
Henry Jr.
and to everyone joining us this
evening.
Thank you so much, Tracy.
And thank you to, to our friends at
the League of Women Voters and we
can for co-hosting this event
tonight. My name is Heather
Dubois-Burnon and I'm executive
director of Wisconsin public
education network.
We are a nonprofit and
non-partisan advocacy organization
that connects public school
supporters and champions to
information actions and each other
so that we can be a stronger
collective voice for all of the
things that Tracy just named that
all of the kids deserve in every
public school in every part of the
state. And we are excited today
to dig into a conversation with two
people who are vying for
the job of our champion in chief
and who want to be the ones who are
going to lead the charge making sure
all the kids get all of their needs
met.
And we are excited today to,
first of all, invite you to
dig into our resources and make
sure that you have all the
information that you need to vote.
If you visit our website at
wisconsonnetwork.org slash election
HQ, you can see lots
of information about the election
and the candidates and more.
And we want to thank Dr. Underlee,
first of all, for joining us
tonight and also for her thoughtful
responses to the candidate survey
that we put out before the primary.
And we want to thank Ms.
Kinzer too for joining us today and
for juggling her busy schedule
to make this work after a little
bit of a false start.
And we know that all of you are very
excited to hear from them.
So it is my honor to
introduce our moderator for the
evening, Dr. Kevin Lawrence Henry
Jr.
Kevin is an associate professor
of educational leadership and
policy analysis at the UW Madison,
where he is an award-winning scholar
of race, racism,
and education.
policy and practice.
He has served as a member of the
advisory council to the office
of educational opportunity at the
universities of Wisconsin system
and he is also a board
member of the board of directors of
our governing board at the Wisconsin
alliance for excellent schools.
Kevin, thank you so much for taking
on the big job of walking our
candidates through this conversation
today and for sharing
your expert expertise with us
tonight as well.
Thank you so much, Heather, and I
just want to thank everyone for
joining us tonight for this
important conversation as it
relates to the next
candidate or the next person who
will be the superintendent of public
construction for the state of
Wisconsin. I also want to thank
all those who were involved in
organizing this event, but I also
want to make some time to thank the
people that are here joining us
tonight. And I also want to say
thank you to Dr. Underley
as well as to Ms.
Kinzer, who will be having a
time with us to discuss these
critical issues.
So I want to talk to you all
briefly just about the format of
the event.
Candidates will have equal time to
answer each question and follow-up
responses will be limited to
one minute.
To maximize our time together
and focus on where the candidates
stand on the issues that matter most
to Wisconsin students and their
public schools, we have avoided
questions that cover information.
readily available online
and candidates websites.
What we'll try to do is
make sure that we're staying within
the time and if the candidate can
help us stay on time, we
should have about 10 to 15 minutes
for questions and answers at the end
of the event.
Those participating in our Zoom
webinar can use the question and
answer feature to ask questions
for consideration and we'll also
as the most pressing ones in any
remaining time.
that we have.
And preference will be given to
questions that are centered on
our core theme, which is closing the
gaps for Wisconsin kids.
So with that being said, I want to
jump right in with our first
question.
I'm going to start with Dr.
Underlee.
What's your vision for
ensuring all Wisconsin
public school students have
access to academic excellence?
And what specifically Will
you do to address specific
barriers to?
that excess.
Yeah, well, thank you so very much.
It's just really great to be here.
I just wanted to thank again,
everybody who put this together and
Dr. Kevin Lawrence Henry Jr.,
Ms. Kinzer, WPEN NAACP,
League of Women Voters, Wisconsin
Child Care Network.
Thank you all so much for doing
this.
To answer the question,
my vision is that
we all have,
every kid in Wisconsin has access
to a high quality public school
education. Um, and
I have the relationships, I have the
experiences, and I have the deep
knowledge of what it takes to lead
Wisconsin's public schools.
I've built partnerships across the
state and in the legislature.
I also hold the necessary
credentials, the licensing, and the
expertise to do the work.
But more than that, I'm 100%
pro-public school,
and pro-public education is the
choice for the vast majority
of Wisconsin kids.
And what I've done specifically
is we proposed a budget.
that puts kids first, it invests
in mental health, early childhood
education, literacy,
and high standards, and we've seen
results.
Wisconsin's moved from 14th in the
nation for education in 2020 to
sixth in 2024, and
now we have the highest graduation
rate in our state's history, and
the progress that we've made is
real, but our work isn't
done. So I'm committed to keeping
Wisconsin Public Schools strong and
ensuring that every child has that
opportunity to succeed.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
I'm Ms. Kinzer.
Hi everyone, thank you so much
for the invitation and
I'm looking forward to the
conversation today with Dr.
Underlee and with all
the hosts.
So my vision
for Wisconsin education
is that 95%
of children will be able to
read well enough to go
to college, have
a career or a meaningful
job or master of trade.
Right now, unfortunately,
three out of 10 children are
only reading well enough to go
to college or have a career.
And in Milwaukee, where
I live, we have
the worst outcomes for our
black students with only 5%
of children reading well enough to
go to college or have
a career.
And that's why I'm running.
I'm running to restore our high
standards that were lowered back
in the spring.
restore them back to our nation's
report card levels that Governor
Evers had set for us eight years
ago, and make sure
that we are refocused on teaching
reading, writing, and math so
all children can have a
meaningful job, go to college,
or master a trade.
Make sure that we are partnering
with our parents because they're
our child's first teacher
and lifelong champion, ensuring
that the billions of dollars that we
do have in education is getting into
the classrooms.
rewarding our great teachers and
having less bureaucracy and
ensuring that the Department of
Public Instruction is transparent,
predictable and innovative so that
we can have an
education system where 95% of our
children are reading well enough to
be successful in college or have a
career. So thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Kinzer.
We'll actually start with you for
this next question.
The Department of Public Instruction
manages about 540
employees and has responsibility
to provide accurate, timely,
and relevant support to all 421
of Wisconsin's public school
districts.
Please tell us what specifically you
will do to ensure these
needs are met, and what evidence
can you provide that you are
competent and qualified to perform
this capacity?
We'll then start with,
after you answer, Dr. Underlee
will share her assessment on
her first terms and plans if
elected. But we wanna start with you
to answer that question.
So that is so important that
we have strong relationships and
we are being responsive
to all of our
421 schools, as you
said, throughout Wisconsin.
That is definitely one of my
priorities. As I said, we wanna make
sure that we are being transparent
and predictable and innovative.
Right now, it's very difficult to
find information on the
Department of Public Instruction's
website.
I've already been researching some
of the best practices around the
country, bringing more
transparency and predictability
to the Department of Public
Instruction, bringing those best
practices from other states.
I'm really looking forward to that
as I've talked to people across
the state, whether it's school
districts, school boards, needing
the information in a timely manner
and in an
accurate manner.
So I'm looking forward to that.
In any places that I have worked,
I have always met expectations
with reporting out,
being able to transform different
systems so that they are predictable
and they are high-performing.
So I've had that experience.
And whether I was working at the
district level in Chicago public
schools, whether I was starting
my own school, working in
a network of
charter schools, public charter
schools, or.
working at a nonprofit, I have
been shown to be able to do, create
systems that are effective and
efficient. So thank you.
OK, thank you so much.
We'll switch to Dr. Underlee.
So after sharing your
qualifications, please explain
what have you done to meet
these needs in your first
term and what improvements or
adjustments you will make in your
second term.
Right.
So my qualifications,
I'm a lifelong public servant.
I started 26 years
ago as a teacher, social studies,
and a large rural comprehensive high
school where I
had a lot of students who were
migrant students.
Their parents were migrant workers
in the farm fields.
And then I moved into a
more high performing high school,
which was much more affluent.
I was also an elementary
school principal, a middle high
school principal, and then a
superintendent of a school district
here in Wisconsin.
I also worked at the University of
Wisconsin Madison as an academic
advisor for students who struggled
in college and were often
first-generation college students.
I also worked at the Department of
Public Instruction
in 2009 till
about 2014
as a federal programs
consultant in Title I.
and then also an educator licensing
assistant director.
I just wanted to share, you know,
like the support that we provide
school districts is really a lot
of it is in advocacy
and grant management.
The duties of the state
superintendent, you know, obviously
the leadership and the vision.
I wanna respond to
the criticism
that only three in 10 Wisconsin
kids are.
um, college or career ready, because
I feel that that is very misleading.
Um, right now
it's like, when you look at the data
that doesn't add up because
Wisconsin graduates every year go
to college and technical school
apprenticeship, um, or straight
into the workforce and our
graduation rate is at an all time
high and our schools rank
six in the nation.
Um, and so That's really
what we're doing at the department,
is we're providing this leadership.
We're also providing the resources
and the expertise and the technical
assistance to the 421 school
districts so that they can do this
work. We do it through budget
advocacy.
We do it through mental health
grants, advocating for
breakfast and lunch for students so
that they are ready to
learn, and also
literacy programs too through Act
20.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
I'm actually going to start with you
for this next question.
And it's around our current teacher
crisis and licensing requirements.
And so licensing and qualification
has been a hot topic in
this race as it relates to the
credentials of the candidates.
But let's talk about how
and what this means to Wisconsin's
educators and the many challenges
they do face.
What is your assessment of
our current teacher crisis?
And what solutions do you have?
and also with issues such
as the teacher shortage and the need
for more teachers of color in the
state, what are your perspectives
on the issue of licensing
and the need for greater flexibility
to address our state's needs?
This is a great great question.
We recently every year
the Department of Public Instruction
puts out a report on the
state of the educator workforce and
the news hasn't been great.
I mean, we do know that we're
preparing enough teachers in
Wisconsin's educator preparation
programs, but we know that they're
not staying in teaching and the
mobility between districts is
at an all time high.
I do feel like a lot of this
came out of Act 10.
Um, back in 2011, um,
that was at the time, you know, when
we reduced funding to school
districts, it was around $600 per
student. And so our, our
school districts were required to
have to recoup some of those costs.
And it fell on the backs of our
teaching workforce.
And ever since then it's been in,
it's been in crisis.
Um, so funding is a big way
that we can help solve this problem.
We haven't been able to in our
school districts to give our
employees any type of inflationary.
or cost of living increase,
because we're not getting those
types of increases in our school
districts either.
And so they're being forced
to go to referendum just to
make operational ends meet.
But funding could help, certainly
reimbursing special education costs
at a higher rate than the
29% that it is now would give
our school districts more spendable
revenue.
But salary is a big piece,
you know, when you're going to
college and especially if you're a
first generation college student or
if you're a person of color going
into college and
coming out as a first time graduate,
teaching might be an attractive
career, but it isn't if you want to
raise a family or be able to, you
know, pay off your student loans or
a home.
So we need to make sure that we are
paying our staff what they
what they are worth.
I mean, it's really, it's a
commitment to valuing.
and supporting the entire teaching
profession.
Teachers are the backbone of our
schools and they deserve more than
just gratitude.
They deserve ongoing support,
sustained investment in the
profession.
Teacher preparation programs and
teacher apprenticeships are ways
that we can look at solving
the workforce challenges.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
Ms. Kinzer.
Um, so, um,
I am committed to advancing,
uh, reforms to Wisconsin's
complex teacher licensure, um,
systems and, and welcoming
qualified individuals to
enter the teaching, uh, profession.
I also believe that, um,
alternative educator preparation
pathways are essential to
increasing the number of high
quality teachers in our schools.
I'm open to collaborating
with various groups and learning
from other states.
um that have implemented successful
programs.
Finding a solution is going to
really require innovative ideas, a
collaborative approach, and
we have to act now
to solve this problem.
Under my leadership at DPI,
I'll support the growth and
sustainability of alternative
educator preparation programs.
You know, again, like I'm looking at
what other states are doing and
working with other leaders
throughout Wisconsin to assess
innovative approaches to address
Wisconsin's education
shortage.
For example, there's some examples
out there. Schools could alleviate
the teacher shortage with their own
teacher apprentice.
Pathways similar to bipartisan
programs in 30 other states that
allow for two years of paid
real life experience
before graduating.
Um, so as DPI superintendent,
that will be one of my priorities,
um, to be making sure I'm listening,
learning, and collaborating to
ensure we have more
alternative pathways and ways
to support our teachers, um,
in Wisconsin.
Thank you. I'm actually going to ask
a follow-up as it
relates particularly to the second
part of the question.
As a college professor, I
spend time preparing those
who want to go into administration,
who want to go into education.
And the data is pretty clear on the
importance of having educators of
color in our classrooms and
particularly also having leaders of
color in our classrooms.
And Ms. Kinzer, if you could talk a
little bit more about how you think
about the teachers of color shortage
and what we might be able to do.
in Wisconsin for that.
Yes, so my last
10 years in Milwaukee,
I have been working with that,
working in communities of
color. And it was a goal
to make sure that we had more
teachers from our community
working in our classrooms.
And so what we were able to do,
we supported a pair
of professionals who wanted to be
teachers, supporting them and
finding programs to.
go to school, we tried to find
different alternative funding
solutions, because it is very
expensive to become a teacher in
the setup we have nowadays.
That's why I said we need to be
working on different ways for
alternative pathways.
That two years,
these programs that are in other
states, being able to pay
people who
want to be teachers while they're
getting that work done in the
schools would be huge to be
to attract more people from
communities.
that represent their students.
It's wonderful when you have people
from the community working in the
schools with their students, because
it's then a community school.
And sometimes you get parents who
come in and want to be teachers.
And again, that just changes the
whole dynamic.
So I think it is very important.
And like I said, we have to come up
with innovative ideas, but also
let's implement ideas we know that
are working in other states.
We don't always have to reinvent the
wheel. And so a
program that I use that I think
could be useful for our communities
too is when I was in Illinois,
I received a special ed grant
where if you, they paid for your,
they gave you a scholarship, right?
So they paid for your schooling as
long as you taught for two years
out of the first five years out of
college and that helped too.
Thank you very much.
And Dr. Underlee, actually, I want
to follow up on one of
your comments, particularly around
teacher pay and
increasing the pay of teachers.
And could you talk a little bit more
about how you envision that?
Like, what does it mean for us to
have teacher pay?
Folks talk a lot about it, but
increasing teacher pay, but what
does that look like for you?
Yeah, well, I mean, we need to
ensure that teachers are paid fairly
for their hard work.
And, you know, while pay is
ultimately determined at the local
level, I have advocated for
policies that give districts more
flexibility and resources to offer
competitive salaries and benefits
to attract and retain talented
educators.
So like it's really, it's tied up to
revenue. And when you look at the
number of school districts that have
gone to referendum in Wisconsin,
um, they're doing it because they,
they need to, and they can't keep
the lights on, they can't pay their
staff. They can't give them raises.
Um, and teacher pay
has lagged.
It's 20% less right now than
it was 15 years ago in
real dollars.
In other states, um, we're losing
teachers from Wisconsin to other
states because they just can pay
more. Um, Illinois is a good
example of that.
Um, but we also can't cut
corners when it comes to licensure.
Um, we have to make sure that our
staff are fully licensed, that
they are, um, they have the
content knowledge and then they have
the classroom.
expertise. I've proposed different
items in my budget that
expand on the programs that we
already have in place, like teacher
apprenticeship and grow your own
programs.
I've also suggested
in the budget that we pay student
teachers and we invest in teacher
mentors who will support these new
teachers.
But really, we have to look at
the whole teaching profession and we
have to make sure that there's a
growth and career ladders
for people so that they can.
move up within teaching,
lead teachers, become specialists,
so that they don't feel that they
have to go into administration in
order to earn more pay.
And it's really important,
especially for first-generation
college students and
teachers of color, when
you go into education
or you major, let's say, in math or
chemistry or English or any of the
areas, and then you graduate from
college and you have an option of
getting a job in the private sector.
you know, that would pay two and
a half times what you would start as
a teacher.
It's really a no brainer for a lot
of people because those skills are
transferable.
Thank you so much.
All right, we'll start this next
question with Ms.
Kinzer.
Wisconsin has some of the most
shameful gaps in the nation.
And these gaps have widened
every year with budgets that
segregate resources and
opportunities away from priority
needs.
On the most recent NAEP assessment,
Wisconsin had the largest
achievement gap in reading of any
state. Students of color,
students with disabilities, students
living in economically disadvantaged
households, including rural
students, and students who
are English language learners are
most routinely and
disproportionately impacted by these
policies.
What accountability for closing
these gaps, what would
accountability for closing these
gaps look like in your
administration?
We have got to take
accountability at the state level
for how our children are learning or
not learning. Like I said, we
only have three out of ten children,
according to our nation's report
card, as you called it, NAEP.
And for our Black children in
Wisconsin and in Milwaukee, it's
five percent.
It is not okay.
This is a crisis.
That's why I got into this race.
We have got to hold ourselves
accountable. We have got to make it
transparent. We have to make
sure that it's easy.
for all of us to know the
information.
Right now with Act 20,
they're taking AimsWeb testing in
the early grades for reading.
We know how students are doing.
We know if they're
exceeding or not, if they
need to have an individualized plan.
We need to make sure that parents
are aware, school boards are
aware, we're transparent about that
data, that's accountability first,
and then ensuring our schools
are getting the support they need.
like making sure that they're
using the research and
evidence-based curriculum.
They're getting the support with
coaching if they need it.
We have to hold ourselves
accountable. We have to set clear
goals, growth goals, and then
proficiency goals, because we know
the research shows 95%
of children can learn how to read
well enough if you're using
science of reading and phonics in
the early grades.
There is a town in Ohio.
that did not use balanced literacy
for the past 30 years.
It's in the podcast, Told a Story.
If anyone's listening wants to
learn more about the history of
reading, Told a Story is a great
podcast.
But there's this school in
Ohio, which is a great example.
It's a Rust Belt town.
85% of children are living
in socioeconomically disadvantaged
families, but they're all reading.
They're all reading on grade level.
It is possible.
So we have to take accountability
for it and ensure our schools are
getting the support they need,
making sure school boards have the
information they need and the
parents and I know my time is up.
Thank you.
I actually want to,
my way to the music stops.
This is the awards,
so I actually want to follow up
on that, particularly as it relates
to the transparency and
thinking about some of the
research-based evidence that we do
have.
Across the United States, we see
the importance of
issues around culturally relevant
teaching, multiculturalism.
ethnic studies, all of these being
mechanisms in terms of instruction
that assist in
lowering or lessening the gap,
particularly for students of color.
You mentioned earlier about the
disparities that we see particularly
in MPS and in Milwaukee
writ large, and those are
communities that are
overwhelmingly students of color.
And so I'm wondering if you could
talk a little bit more about, for
instance, instructional practices
that have in some ways come
under attack as it
relates to.
equity as it relates to issues
around diversity, culturally
relevant teaching, and how you
might in your administration address
that.
Yeah. So when I think about this,
it's really important that kids
learn how to read, right?
And if you don't know how to read,
you don't have a future ahead of
you. Like, think about all of us
right here. I wouldn't be here today
if I couldn't read.
I wouldn't be in this in this room.
And so we have to make sure that
we're using research and evidence
based curriculum.
And we have to make sure that our
teachers are you are
trained, they've been educated on
how to teach phonics.
Like I went to a teacher school, I
came out. and had learned, I
realized, oh my gosh, I wasn't
taught how to teach reading and I
was a special ed teacher.
And so as I opened
up schools too, I found out many
of my teachers also were
not taught how to teach reading.
And so we have to make
sure that our children
have teachers in front of them, like
you said, that are
from the community, but also
are taught how to teach reading.
And I think that is something that's
so important. And of course,
culturally relevant.
stories that they're reading.
I lost that last little bit.
Can you say that? Just repeat that
last bit you were saying about.
Which part did you...
Sorry, I don't...
I don't know. The culture, the...
Yeah, well, I...
Yeah, I said of course they need to
have culturally, culturally,
culturally, gosh,
relevant books in the classroom that
they're, they're reading.
But our kids need to learn how to
read so that they can access those
books.
And so making sure that we going
back to the teacher pipeline to
making sure that there are teachers
in the community in the classrooms.
Dr. Underley, same question for you.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Um, I just want to kind of add or
clarify something, um,
Brittany said earlier, the podcast
is called sold a story,
not told a story.
It's sold a story.
It's by Emily Hanford.
Um, and so it's a great podcast.
No, it's a great podcast.
Um, I recommend people listen
to it, but, um, you know, with
the racial achievement gaps, I mean,
critics have argued that DPI has
failed to provide strong leadership
on, on closing these gaps.
But what I would say is that
Yeah, they're absolutely right.
Um, we should all be ashamed of it.
These gaps are absolutely
unacceptable, but we, we know
how to solve the problem.
But it takes money and it takes
effort and it,
we know it works.
It goes back 30
plus years, um, to,
uh, Tommy Thompson and his effort to
defend public schools and send
funding to unaccountable voucher
schools. And this goes back to the
refusal of the legislature.
to fund public schools and the
efforts that they make to defund
public schools.
And I say, give us the
tools we need to do the work and we
can get it done.
Give us the funding, but the laws
that they pass prevent us from doing
that.
As I say, we know it works.
High standards for literacy and
math, absolutely.
High quality instruction, early
childhood programming, special
education, well-trained teachers,
passionate teachers, after-school
programs, career and technical
education.
engaging curriculum, mental health
support, and school nutrition.
We know what works and you see
these items, you see these programs,
you see these policies in place in
high-performing school districts and
in the school districts that don't
have them they also likely
have facilities that are crumbling
as well and
again it's like we know what works
It takes money though to do it.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
I'm going to follow up, because you
have, actually, what's great, our
next question is around funding
adequacy. But I want to follow up.
I'm wondering how you've
had your first term, and
I'm thinking about,
now I'm running out of time.
I'm thinking about this
question about working with
legislators, because you've
mentioned that twice.
How do you approach this work?
I mean, could you talk a little bit
more about this?
We know we need more funding, but
how do you build that
support?
How do you build the bench for folks
to actually come on board and
to do this necessary work around the
funding?
And I like how you phrased that
building the bench because that's
what we have been doing at DPI.
We've been building this bench of
leaders in DPI,
you know, civil servants, you know,
who, you know, when I
came in, we had to rebuild the
agency. It was COVID and
we had a lot of people retire.
We didn't fill those positions
in the interim.
And so when I came in, we had a lot
of work to do and we had to build up
our teams again.
And one of those was, you know,
a priority of...
building relationships with
the legislature.
And I made it a priority to
build relationships and foster
productive dialog, even when we
don't agree.
And under my leadership, DPI has
significantly improved our
engagement with legislators.
We've taken a team approach to
speaking with them nearly every day
and testifying on key bills.
And this has created a more
respectful and collaborative
environment, even in
the face of political differences.
Public education is non-partisan.
This position is non-partisan.
We work with both sides,
and we've successfully helped pass
bipartisan legislation like
Act 20.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
This next question will start with
you.
The relationship between funding and
achievement or resources and results
is complicated and often
politicized.
With districts increasingly forced
to go to referenda to fund the
basics, how can we ensure
accountability in terms of increased
performance while also removing
barriers to achieving equity like
the special education funding gap
and ending our 16-year-old
cycle of state budgets?
that have failed to keep pace with
inflation.
What specifically will you do
to ensure that the state is meeting
its constitutional obligation
to provide a sound,
basic public education for
every student?
Yeah, this has been my goal and it
was one of the very reasons I
ran for state superintendent in
2021, it was because of
funding and equity.
Um, in 2017, I had
the privilege of presenting, um,
it was in Fenimore at Southwest
Tech.
I had the privilege of presenting to
the Blue Ribbon commission on school
funding. Um, I was a superintendent
of a small school district in
Southwest Wisconsin at the time, and
just educating legislators
about the troubles that our
school districts have making ends
meet. Um, since 2023,
so since the last time we passed a
budget, so the 23, 25 biennium,
but since 2023, it's around 50%
of Wisconsin school districts had to
go to referendum.
Um, and you go back, I
know I went back to act
10 with 2011 and when we
lost around $600 per student,
but it goes back even further than
that. When they froze revenue limits
in 1993 and our school districts
were locked in to whoever they'd
been spending it the previous year.
And we've been stuck in these cycles
of referendum ever since and
especially low spending districts.
And what we've learned
actually from assessment is we're
very good at testing
and finding out which school
districts have high poverty because
there's a correlation between
high poverty
and low test scores.
And I'm not saying it's across
the board or universal, but
generally speaking.
And so.
You know, we have to really look at
our school funding formula.
We also have to look at the fact
that we are funding two
systems of schools,
public schools, we're funding the
public school system, which accepts
all kids, including students with
disabilities.
And then we're funding a voucher
system where we pay private school
tuition.
And they don't take all students.
And so when we look at these large
referendums in our cities,
especially there is a correlation
between the rise and
of the voucher program too and
the expansion of vouchers.
So we have to really, we have
to invest in our public schools if
we're going to get through this
problem. And I will have to sue
the legislature if they don't
fund our public schools.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
Ms. Kinzer?
Can I go back
and answer you asked the question
about working with lawmakers?
Can I answer that question?
Yeah, sure, absolutely, yeah.
Um, so I have a proven
record of working with the
legislature, um, and getting a
bipartisan bill passed two
years ago.
That was, uh, I worked with
the Republican leadership, also
with Democrats in Milwaukee
that signed on.
So it was a bipartisan bill plus
the governor's office.
And I think it's really
important to be able
to have those relationships because
we do have to work together to
make sure that our
children are getting the resources
that they need.
And so I do have relationships
with both majority leaders
and Democrats in
the legislature and the governor's
office. So I do want to
say that.
So I think that is key to
making sure we get what we need for
our children.
Okay, and then the other part was.
I'm just curious, can you talk
about, because I've only been
in Wisconsin for about four years.
Can you tell us about the bill that
you worked on?
Yeah, so Act 11,
two years ago, so the last
budget, we were able
to get more money for all students,
all public schools, also some
more money for public charters
and students who received
the voucher program, the
voucher who lived below a
certain income level and also
money for mental health.
And so the governor,
so it was, The Republicans
plus five Democrats in
Milwaukee and the governor's office
signed that bill.
So it was a group effort
to get more
funding for all the schools and
then some other areas that the
governor prioritized.
Okay. Thank you.
And so I just want to go back.
I know we were kind of, we're
moving a little in and out of time.
And actually our next question is
about vouchers and
charter schools. But I do want us
to, I do want to give you an
opportunity to answer this question
around funding adequacy.
So I'll give you, I think we've put
the clock back on just to ensure
that you can answer that question
for us.
Um, so one
thing that I have learned as
I have, I've traveled over 12,000
miles and less than a hundred days,
meeting with people all over the
state, um, is that everyone
agrees that our funding formula,
uh, system is broken
and we need, um,
an upgrade. You know, schools are,
are operating with limited
resources, um, and
taxpayers are concerned and
tired of actually paying the
referendums.
And as I said, I hear it
all over as I travel the state.
So Wisconsin's funding formula needs
to be modernized.
And I promise to
be a leader in
that. As I said, I
have relationships on both sides of
the aisle and report the governor's
office. We have to make sure
that it's updated.
We also need to make sure that the
reimbursement for special education
is increased.
Possibly there's 30 states across
our country that don't use
a reimbursement model.
So a reimbursement model, like my
first year being a principal, I had
20% of my students who were
in special ed, I spent a million
dollars.
So you had to take that, this is
schools across our state, you have
to take that out of the general ed
fund. And then you get reimbursed
the next year. I think we got
reimbursed at 30%, if I remember,
this was like 12 years ago.
Um, and so,
and now it's, you know, still 30%.
So we have to increase the special
ed reimbursement.
It is, we have to.
Um, and so I, I
promise to, um,
districts across the state and
our legislature and the governor's
office to improve that.
It's like, I watched as Milwaukee
leaders like Mayor Johnson and
County Executive Crowley worked
across the aisle, attended
meetings with Republican legislators
and the governor and all the other
stakeholders and they modernized
the shared revenue formula that
hadn't been changed for decades.
So I know that it's possible.
Thank you.
I'm actually gonna start the
question, the next set of questions
with you, Ms.
Kinsler, particularly as it relates
to our questions or
considerations around school choice.
So you did mention Act 11.
And I'm just curious about if you
could talk a little bit more or
describe your position on
the impact of voucher and
charter schools and what impact
those have had on students attending
public schools or traditional public
schools.
The impact, so living
here in Milwaukee, we've
had school choice for over,
you know, three decades
and almost half the
children, children's
families are choosing to
send their children to a
public charter school or a private
charter school or private charter
school. There's no private charter
schools, private school with a
voucher.
And so,
we know from polling that 60%
of families want school
choice. And so in
Milwaukee, it is decoupled.
It does not affect the property
taxes. It is state aid, it is a
state program.
So I have been on record
for, I was on the
Board of Wisconsin Charter School
Advocates.
I'm on record for saying decoupling
is a way to
take that off of the tax
bill. and not complicate
it for our public
schools and have it
paid through state aid.
So that's what the decoupling bill
is. It didn't get
through this last time, but
I am on record for decoupling.
Okay, that's actually the next
question, but I wanna give Dr.
Underlee an opportunity to address
this one, and we can come back to
talk a little bit more about
decoupling.
All right, so, you know, I
guess I just want to say that I
strongly believe that public dollars
should be invested in public
schools, where all students,
regardless of their background or
needs, have access to that high
quality education.
And what we're seeing is,
you know, studies from the
Wisconsin Department of Public
Instruction have shown that, you
know, MPS students who
are in the voucher program are
not outperforming
Milwaukee public school students.
you know they're
all scoring below the state
average.
And so my philosophy on
this is that we need to invest
in the system that takes
all kids, which is the public
school.
And we need to make sure that we are
investing in the teachers and we
are investing in the curriculum and
we are investing in the facilities
and in the programs that
will help all children be
successful.
I am strongly against using
public dollars to fund the private
schools.
The Act 11 that
Ms. Kinzer referenced before,
now we have high school voucher
students getting more money
per student
on their voucher than public school
students in high school are
getting.
And like I said, the studies
show that voucher
school students in MPS...
vouchers are not outperforming
MPS students.
And we also need to look at that
in Milwaukee,
we have 35% to 40%
of the students are going on.
These are MPS students.
They are going on to
college after high school
graduation.
And we really need to start
looking at how we can continue to
support, again, a system
that supports all students.
You know, I also just feel like,
again, this goes back to the school
finance question, when we look at
the referendums and the sizes of
referendums, we again, need to make
sure that we are using that funding
for public schools because they
are the ones that are accountable to
local school boards.
Um, they licensed their teachers
fully, and again, they're the ones
that are accountable to the public.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
Actually, I'm gonna start the next
question with you, and this is a bit
more kind of delving into
this question of decoupling.
And so I'm just curious, what
do you think of the proposals like
the decoupling bill supported by
voucher lobbyists that would
guarantee a voucher funding directly
through state aid as opposed to
through the education budget?
And could you talk a little bit more
also about how this policy change
in funding private and
charter schools and that being
implemented.
how that would impact, I guess,
our general set of
resources for public school
students.
Oh, you're muted. I'm sorry.
Thank you.
Sorry about that. Sorry about that.
What decoupling does is
it ties voucher funding to
public school finances.
leading, I mean, so
concerns about the financial
impact of public schools and local
property tax payers is what I
was referencing earlier.
And what decoupling legislation
would do was it would
it would fund voucher programs.
I'm sorry, because it can mean a
couple of different things,
depending on how I phrase it.
It would fund
voucher programs directly through
the state's GPR.
Therefore, it would eliminate the
need to reduce state aid to public
school districts for voucher
students. So like when I talk about
the money that is being transferred
from our public schools to
voucher programs, it's
because our state finance
system for schools, it's just one
pot of money.
And I've talked about this before
where it's like pie.
you've got this pot, and then the
share for vouchers keeps getting
larger, and then the share for
schools gets smaller.
And it could lead to additional
transparency.
I just fear it wouldn't lead to
additional funding for public
schools.
Thank you very much.
Ms. Kinzer, do you wanna add
anything? I know you did mention the
decoupling in your stance, but if
there was anything else you wanted
to add.
I do wanna bring, I do
want us to start talking about
the children and families
that use the scholarship
who live at a certain income level.
We talk about vouchers as an object.
These are children.
These are families.
In Milwaukee, it's mostly black and
brown families living in poverty.
And we're saying we're gonna take
this option away from them.
I'm wondering how often
people who wanna take away this
option have gone into the
communities and ask the families.
why are you choosing to use
the voucher to send your
child to this school?
Because I've had those conversations
and it really changes when you
start thinking about the actual
40,000 families
and children.
And you hear from the families on
why they're choosing this program.
That's been available to them for 30
years.
And then to say that you're just
gonna cut it off without any
solutions and send them to schools
that are failing.
We know what's going on at MPS.
Well, we kind of do, right?
I just think we need to start
talking about...
Thank you, I actually want to kind
of follow up on that.
How do we, or how
do you more precisely, balance some
of the data? We've talked about
accountability, we've talked about
transparency and the importance of
having data.
How do we make sense of this
perhaps desire for
vouchers and school choice
and compare that or have that
held in tandem with some of the data
that suggests that these
schools are not inherently
outperforming our traditional public
school counterparts?
So when we talk about, so
it depends on the school, right?
So there are some schools that are
doing well in each of the sectors,
right? Whether it's traditional
public schools, charter schools,
private schools. So you look across
the board.
The elementary schools that are
receiving vouchers, they
receive about $7,000
less than the traditional public
school. So this isn't dollar for
dollar, right? Like it's, the money
isn't following the child.
And that was something that was
eyeopening to our Milwaukee
families.
when we were able to show them two
years ago, do you know, like
we have this thing called school
choice here. Some people don't even
know. They just, they've been here
for 30 years and they have options,
right? They grew up having options.
And so there are many families that
send their child to all three
different, one is at a private
school, another child's at a charter
school, another child's
at a Milwaukee public school.
And they didn't realize the
funding was different.
They were actually very upset.
Again, this is the transparency.
We have got to let our families
know.
If you're gonna send your child to
this school, you're getting about
$5,000 to $7,000.
And so I think we've got to make
sure that we are informing families
on all the issues.
And then 100%, they should
know how that school is doing.
They should know how much is getting
funded. And then they can choose
what they want to do.
But I think we need to make sure, I
believe that we need to make sure
that we are informing all families
on all the issues.
It really makes a huge difference.
And it's exciting because people
want to help and make change.
Thank you.
Okay, we're gonna move a little bit
forward because we are actually
running out of time.
But I want us to move to this
question around civics education
and graduate requirements.
And so this question actually comes
from our partners at the League of
Women Voters of Wisconsin.
What is your position on
mandating a half credit graduation
requirement in civics education?
And could you explain your answer a
bit more on that?
And would you and what state
funding?
be needed for you to support this or
other legislative policy proposals.
Yeah, that's for you.
Oh, I didn't know who we were...
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
I didn't know which one.
So mandating a half-credit
graduation requirement in civics
education,
I think civics education
is very important.
And so I'm
supportive of having the civics
education requirement.
I am going to be honest.
I don't know the mandate,
and I haven't talked with the League
of Women Voters about this specific.
Um, so I...
I'm supportive of a course of civics
education and what state funding we
needed for you to support this.
I would have to look into the cost
of that to be honest.
So of course I'm
for civics education.
I just, I'm not sure of the cost.
I'd have to look more into that.
Thank you so much.
Dr. Underly.
This is great because this is really
near and dear to my heart.
I'm supportive of civics education,
but I'm against additional mandates
and I'll explain that a little bit.
But you know civics education
is really important at the
Department of Public Instruction.
We already have released a
civic scope and sequence.
And that means districts have
guidance on implementing civics
instruction, including standalone
courses, but it's
it's scope and sequence all the way
from kindergarten through 12th
grade.
And what we learned when we were
doing this project was that many
school districts in Wisconsin
already offer civics courses.
So a mandate may not necessarily
be, um, well, a mandate may not
be necessary.
Um, but we have to think about
the funding and the resources too.
I mean, civics is incredibly
important when you talk about civil
dialog and being able to think
critically about issues and to,
and to debate.
If a statewide requirement were
introduced, it would require state
funding to ensure
proper implementation.
But it, I mean, because it includes
materials. I mean, it's what we
learned from the literacy bill,
right? It includes materials,
professional development, resources
for districts that do not currently
have a standalone civics course.
But we also have to think about
teacher licensing and capacity
issues too.
Because a new mandate would require
properly licensed teachers.
Because in Wisconsin, in social
studies is where I think this would
likely fall.
To be licensed to teach civics,
you have to be licensed in
government.
Otherwise, it would be
a challenge, given the current
educator shortage, especially in
rural areas, without
additional staffing and
licensure, a mandate could create an
additional burden on schools.
But I'm also in favor of local
control and flexibility.
And so then rather than a mandate,
I would favor encouraging and
supporting civics education through
funding and professional development
using the scope and sequence
that we developed but also local
decision-making. So if they want to
make that part of the graduation
requirements, they can
and they can implement civics in a
way that is best fit for their
students.
Thank you so much.
All right, so we're gonna actually
start with you, Dr. Underlee, for
the next question, which is
around childcare.
The governor's 2025-2027
budget requests for special
education includes measures intended
to build relationships between
schools and the childcare programs.
Explain how this additional funding
will better meet the needs
of children and their parents for
those who qualify under IDEA.
And this question is from the
Wisconsin Early Childhood Action
Needed.
I keep muting myself.
That's like a habit.
No, I this is a this
is an issue that's entirely near
and dear to my heart because when
you look at high performing school
districts and you look at
where the healthy kids are you know
and the happy family I mean child
care is a big piece of that puzzle
and you
know with the year of the kid I'm
really hopeful that we can we can
come to some bipartisan agreement
on that child care is
a workforce issue.
But it also, I mean, studies show
that when you invest in high
quality childcare and preschool
programs in your school,
the return on the investment
is more than tenfold.
Kids are doing better
in elementary school, they're
doing better in literacy and math,
they're scoring higher on their
achievement tests, but they're also
healthier.
They have more social skills.
If they've got special education
needs, they're being identified
earlier. And so...
What the governor is proposing is
this community-based school
partnership program,
which is a collaboration between
public schools and community
organizations like nonprofits,
local businesses, early childhood
centers, even higher education
institutions.
It would provide accessible,
affordable, high-quality child
care and early learning for
families. and this would support
working families.
because it offers before and after
school programming, early childhood
education, wrap around services.
It would expand access to early
learning. Like I said, you know,
by integrating preschool and
childcare into the school
system and then would
leverage community resources, you
know, to create the sustainable,
locally driven solutions to
childcare needs.
And how IDEA fits into this is
inclusion of children with
disabilities.
I think that's incredibly important,
making sure that all kids are
included.
Early intervention, like I mentioned
before, which is part C of
IDEA, and that serves infants and
toddlers, birth to three, and then
preschool special education and
training and licensing of teachers.
And then, of course, we could also
apply for more funding with
IDEA with that to inclusive
learning environments.
Thank you so much.
Ms. Kinzer.
Um, I think it's, uh, you know,
early education is very, very
important, um, and relationships
and collaboration with
different, uh, programs of schools,
um, is something that I've always
had to do, especially since I came
to Wisconsin, um,
partnering with different
organizations to support
before and after
care for our students.
ensuring that there is high quality
programs in our preschools
and our K-4.
I know from teaching
or having 125
little four-year-olds, my first
year as a principal here, we were
able to implement a program with
reading. Again, I'm going back to
reading and being able to teach
four-year-olds how to read by
the end of K-4 was huge
as they go in into kindergarten
being prepared.
And so, And
being a special ed teacher, of
course, we wanna support our
students who are receiving special
needs resources
and programs.
So I'm in support of making sure
that we are partnering with
programs to support our schools
at all times.
Thank you so much.
I'm going to move to a follow-up
question.
We're going to actually start with
you, Ms.
Kinzer. This is also from
We Can.
How do you envision
partnerships between child care
programs, the Department of
Public Instruction, and the
Department of Children and Family
Progressing, Children and Families
Progressing?
Sorry, I'm turning it off.
So I think this is
where, again, the
relationships are really important,
where the Department of Public
Instruction is
partnering with programs and
departments that are
specialized in other areas, like
Department of Children and Families
progressing. So.
I don't have a relationship
with them right now, but building
those relationships are key for all
of our schools. As I've been talking
with superintendents and school
leaders throughout the state,
putting all the focus
on the schools to figure it all out
is not working.
We have to have partnerships and
relationships to support our
schools and supporting our families
and our kids so that our schools can
focus on the teaching and
supporting in other ways.
we need to have relationships with
other organizations.
and departments.
Thank you so much.
Dr. Underley.
Sure. You know, I think it really
starts with a shared
vision, right?
To ensure, for example,
that every child in Wisconsin has
access to affordable,
high quality early learning, because
that's really an issue.
And I think, you know, with that
vision, we can strengthen those
connections between early childhood
and K-12 education.
Lots of school districts are
having site-based
child care because there's a need.
There's a lot of child care deserts.
throughout Wisconsin, and
that creates workforce challenges.
And so again, I also
would go back to, you know, how it
would promote inclusion of children
with disabilities and multilingual
learners.
And the Department of Public
Instruction, you know, we could
provide curriculum guidance to align
early childhood programs to
our Wisconsin K-12 standards.
We can also support professional
development by
licensing early childhood
educators and expanding pathways.
Again, we can also ensure that IDEA
supports are available for children
with disabilities.
We can also explore ways to fund
4K expansion, which we have
been putting in our budget
for as long as I can recall, to
have full day 4K, for example.
The Department of Children and
Families, I mean, they oversee child
care licensing, regulations,
the young star quality ratings, and
they could also, and they
had done this during COVID, but they
could work to expand
Wisconsin Shares, which is the child
care subsidy, and
also they could, you know, advocate
to support more workforce
development by increasing wages,
because that's a big issue right now
and has been for a long time with
child care workers.
And so if they were connected to the
schools, that they
could offer, you know, better
salaries, for example, and benefits.
You know, the families and
caregivers, I mean, they're really
connected to this because they are
in desperate need for affordable,
high quality childcare.
And they've been incredibly engaged,
but we can support them
through access to resources and
family engagement programs,
as well as community-based support.
Thank you so much.
So we're gonna actually
start moving to our,
I guess we can call it our
lightning round and our speed round.
We're nearing the end of our
conversation tonight.
And so I'm gonna actually start with
you Dr. Underlee for this next
question.
And this is leading a non-partisan
office in a time of partisanship.
The politics and partisanship that
allows our kids to be used as
political footballs is clearly
standing in the way of doing
what's right by Wisconsin students
at the state house.
Given this reality,
what is your plan for navigating the
political landscape in our state and
moving your own priorities forward
if elected or re-elected?
Or more precisely, more re-elected
in your case.
Um, um, you know,
for me, the guiding light has always
been kids.
And when I was the superintendent in
a school district and I had
a non-partisan school board, but you
know, of course people, you know,
politics has, as they
say, um, is not our,
um, not our fault, but
it is our problem.
Um, politics have been part
of education
forever.
I mean, when you think back just to
COVID, or you think back even
for that to.
Well, Act 10, you know, then there
is a nation at risk.
There was desegregation
of schools and Brown v.
Board.
And, I mean, the teaching
of evolution.
I mean, politics has always been
part of that. But for me,
it's really about the kids
and what's best for kids.
And right now, when I look
at the, you know, the
landscape of education and public
education in Wisconsin,
we are not fulfilling
our constitutional obligation.
to provide a high quality education
to every kid.
It's dependent on the zip code.
And so we need to work through this
funding issue.
And I think there's bipartisan
support to get it fixed.
Thank you.
All right, Ms. Kinzer.
Thanks for this question.
I have promised families,
school leaders, community leaders
across the state that I will use
my relationships that I already
have with the leadership
and the majority, the Republican
majority, my relationships with
the Democrats, my relationships with
the governor's office and
local leaders to do what's
best for kids because we have to put
politics aside and.
And in this nonpartisan race, I'm
very proud of the
support and respect I've gotten from
Democrats for education reform,
and then all the way to Governor
Tommy Thompson.
And it just shows that you
can come together, you can come
together in support of
kids when you're really looking out
for the best interests of the
children. I have not met anyone when
I talk about how I want all kids to
read, no one has disagreed with me
on that. Everyone wants all children
to read. It's an American value,
right? We want all of our kids to
read. And I promise to work,
continue working with my
people I already have
relationships with for our
students.
Thank you so much.
I will start with you Ms.
Kinzer for the next question.
Governor Ebers announced last week
he is suing to protect
Wisconsin students from potential
federal funding cuts and
threats to constitutional rights and
the freedom to learn.
Do you support the lawsuit and what
would you do as superintendent to
respond to federal mandates that
could have a negative impact on
Wisconsin students?
I have said this repeatedly, we
must get the funding
from the federal government to
fund our schools.
We have about 14% of schools'
budgets that support our students
with special needs, students for
Title I, the money that we
use to teach our children how to
read, write and do math, full
stop, we have got to have that
money.
And I will be an advocate
for that, and
I am now, and going forward,
We need to have someone that can
talk.
to our current the current
leader,
McMahon, so that talking with her
about what the plan is,
because we don't know what the plan
is, and it's causing a lot of
anxiety.
But we have to be calm and
be able to come up with ideas, you
know, come up with ideas on how to
address when the changes do happen,
or if they do happen, be able to
have a plan and be able to
have conversations.
with those who are making those
decisions, because it will,
if the money is coming straight to
us, we'll be giving it to our FBI
in control, and we
have to be able to make sure our
schools are getting that funding.
Thank you very much, Dr. Underlee.
Yeah, thank you for this question.
I mean, I've been incredibly vocal
about this and we've
been engaging with the Wisconsin's
congressional delegation.
We've been leveraging our national
organizations.
I know that the governor is
connected to the National Governors
Association, but I'm also on
the board for the council of chief
school state officials or
officers, excuse me, CCSSO.
We've also been engaging the public
and
you know, like with the maps that we
released with the federal funding
and showing what the impact
it would have on every school
district and what percentage of
federal dollars are in their school
district, how many positions, um,
and what we're learning is that
these cuts, right,
the funding cuts are going to farm
Wisconsin students, especially
in rural and high poverty districts.
Um, and we need to
look at how we can strengthen, um,
our state and local funding, and
I've also been very vocal that if
we're going to look at
efficiencies at the federal level.
First of all, we're very efficient
in government, but any
savings that come from those cuts
and staff need to
come to the states.
We need to see that funding.
Thank you.
All right, so we're gonna move
now to our concluding remarks
before we actually get to the
question and answer.
I do wanna leave some time so
that we can address the questions
from those in our audience.
We'll give you one minute each
to provide concluding
remarks before we do this.
Is there anything you'd
like to add to one of your previous
answers or anything we didn't ask
you tonight?
that you'd like Wisconsin voters to
consider or know about you before
they cast their ballots on or
before April 1st.
And you have one minute each.
We're gonna start with Dr.
Underlee.
And I'm sorry, is this in addition
to the closing statement?
Not yet, we're going to get to the
closing remarks, but we're kind of
in our closing chat.
So anything that we did, just press
play.
So I guess what
I would say is that, you know, I
have the leadership and the vision,
you know, that I have the proven
leadership, working bipartisan,
bipartisanship with
Republicans and Democrats to get
things done.
We are seeing incredible progress
coming out of COVID.
Of course, there's so much more work
to get done.
Of course, we want to make sure all
kids are.
successful with literacy
and math, that they have
engaging programming throughout
high school, especially with
pathways for career and technical
education.
We want to make sure our kids
are successful when they graduate
from high school and
can pursue the career
or the college of their choice.
But the way through this
is we cannot do this without
adequate school funding.
in Wisconsin.
is struggling.
You see it by the number of
referendums and we have a
legislature that doesn't seem
to be very concerned about that.
They're happy to pass that on to
the local taxpayers and we need to
end that.
Thank you.
Miss Kinzer.
Yes, thank you for this
opportunity.
I want to address that
I've been called a voucher lobbyist
by Dr. Underlee's
campaign.
And I want to say that
I spent
nearly a decade in Chicago public
schools, both in the classroom
as a special education teacher,
and then also at the district level
when Arne Duncan was there.
I spent another 10 years working
in the public charter school space
as a principal and in leadership
positions.
And I think sometimes
people unfortunately forget that
charter schools are public schools.
And finally, I want to be
really clear about this.
I have never worked
for or in a private or religious
school.
I'm not a privatizer.
And that claim is patently
false.
And I support
school choice.
I support families having
the options to send their children
to any type of school that we offer.
But I just want to make sure that I
have been endorsed by the Democrats
education reform last week,
along with, you know, Governor
Tommy Thompson and Dr.
Fuller. So I just want to make sure
that that is cleared up.
Thank you.
All right.
Before we move on,
I want to, Jill, do you want
to have a chance to respond
to that?
Yeah, thank you so much for the
opportunity.
I guess what I would say in
response to that is that
Ms.
Kinzer lobbied for
these independent charter schools
and vouchers.
She doesn't have a license, for
example, which has raised questions
with voters. And so she advocated
for policies that wouldn't
require licensing for
teachers and administrators.
and I think that that's important
that You know, I think it's
also too important to understand
that, um, I don't
believe she fully understands how
public schools work in Wisconsin.
Um, she's made this claim routinely,
for example, that only three in 10,
um, or 30%
of kids, um,
are able to read
or that they're college ready.
Um, and that makes absolutely no
sense. I mean, because we've made
incredible gains in Wisconsin.
How can we be sixth in the nation?
for schools when
if that were to be true, for
example, and that's absolutely not
the case.
We're sixth in the nation, we have
the highest graduation rates in
state history, and
I think my vision has had a lot
to do with that.
correct Dr. Underlee.
I do have my license.
I paid the $185 to
update my license.
I had a license when I was in
Wisconsin as a principal.
I had a license when I was in
Illinois as a special ed teacher.
I have a degree from an Ivy League
Institute, but when I got here it
was so difficult to move
my license from New York and
Illinois to
Wisconsin.
These are the barriers that we need
take away as we're saying we need
more.
qualified teachers.
So I would I would hope Dr. Underlee
would understand this as she has
said she understands that the
teacher shortage is real and
educated and you know attracting
others here. I come with
licenses from other places
at a degree at Columbia and
now I do have my I paid $185
to update my license
it we we
did this a couple weeks ago so just
to make sure everyone understands
that. And I worked at a non-profit
where I was lobbying for
equal funding for all of our
children.
And as I said, the governor also
signed on to that.
Thank you for that, Ms.
Kinza. We're going to actually start
with you.
And so I just want to actually thank
both of you for
this conversation tonight.
It's more than likely will possibly
be the last conversation before
voters go out.
And so I do want to thank you for
this time that you've had with us.
So before we move to the audience
question and answers, we'd like
to give you both time
to tell supporters of
subscribing.
public schools, schools,
why they can trust you to
close gaps in Wisconsin schools.
So Ms. Kinza, we're gonna start with
you on this question.
Yes, so when I
opened up my public charter
school here 12 years ago,
after two years, the time
Superintendent Evers,
now Governor Evers, gave us a
beating the odds award for closing
gaps, achievement gaps,
academic gaps.
And then we went on to
get more of those awards
later on. I've been able
to work with.
legislature and the governor's
office and parents and people across
our state to have
a huge increase in funding
for all of our children in
Wisconsin and now I'm
I'm I'm running an initiative where
I am trying to help more children
read proficiently
and so I
promise to continue to
work across the aisle.
work with leaders, work with
parents, work with teachers to
ensure all of our children in
Wisconsin have an excellent
education and that we can get
to them.
That's a quick minute.
Minutes go quickly that with that
last bit, I do want to give you an
opportunity to say those last
moments that you were.
I think I said so
that 95% of all children can
read well enough to go to college or
have a career. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
And to hurry.
Yes. Dr. Underlee.
All right, thank you so much.
And again, thanks to the organizers.
Thank you, Ms.
Kinzer, um, for being part of this
important conversation and to
everyone who took time to listen and
engage. Uh, look, I'm running for
reelection as state superintendent,
because I believe in the power of
public education to transform lives.
My vision has always been every
child every day, and it's more than
just words, um, it's a commitment
to ensuring that every Wisconsin
student, regardless of their
background or zip code has access to
opportunities and the support that
they need to thrive.
But I know that belief isn't enough.
Trust is earned through actions.
And that's why under my leadership,
Wisconsin has made real progress.
As I mentioned before, we've moved
from 14th to 6th in the nation for
education. We have the highest
graduation rates in state history.
We're making critical investments in
mental health, literacy,
early childhood, teacher,
recruitment and retention, and
strong academic standards.
We're closing gaps in achievement
and opportunity.
I mean, that's the heart of this
work, but it takes a lot of time
and energy and effort.
And we know that gaps don't just
happen in the classroom.
They stem from disparities in
funding, resources, access
to quality educators and student
support services.
And so I'm gonna continue to push
for increased funding so that we
can invest in our kids.
All right, thank you very much.
So I want to try my
best to move to
the questions and answers, if
you've had a chance, I don't know if
you all have had a chance, the
chat is very lively.
So I'm gonna try to cover
as many questions in the remaining
15 minutes that we have.
So I'll start with this, this is for
both candidates.
In recent years, there have been
increasing political attacks on
diversity, equity,
and inclusion initiatives in
Wisconsin's education system,
including efforts to restrict
curriculum that addresses systemic
inequities, culturally responsive
teaching, and support for
historically marginalized students.
As state superintendent, how
would you advocate for diversity,
equity, and inclusion in our
schools, ensure that all
students feel valued and represented
in our schools,
and in their learning environments,
and protect educators who are
committed to equity-focused
teaching.
And we'll start with Dr.
Underlee, since you were the last
person to respond. Yeah.
No, thank you very much for this
question.
You know, diversity, equity,
inclusion, they're not just
buzzwords. I mean, that's the thing.
They are essential to creating an
environment where every student can
succeed.
For students with disabilities,
students of color, English language
learners, rural students, veterans,
women we employ in our schools,
DEI is not optional.
It's a strike, and we have to look
at it as such.
Diversity enriches our classrooms by
bringing in diverse perspectives.
experiences and ways of thinking.
Equity ensures that every
student, regardless of their
background, has access to the
resources and support that they need
to be successful.
And inclusion is a fundamental
human right. And it's about making
sure that every student feels that
they belong, that they can
contribute, and has an opportunity
to reach their full potential.
And in Wisconsin public schools,
DEI efforts should be woven.
They should be woven into
the fabric of our educational
experience.
They don't distract from
core academic subjects, they enhance
them. And as state superintendent, I
will continue to champion these
initiatives because they're critical
to providing the kind of inclusive,
equitable education that our
students deserve.
Thank you very much.
Yeah, so we wanna make all of our
children feel welcomed and
safe in our schools
and ensuring that they have a
teacher that motivates them
and inspires them and a
school where you come in and it's
joyful and everyone is learning
and ensuring, and
this is the biggest thing.
When we look at in Milwaukee, we
only have 5% of
black children reading well enough
to go on to college and
have a career.
And this isn't just something made
up. I know you're saying something
about six in the country,
but this is real life.
Like our children need to learn how
to read.
If they can't read, they can't
go on.
They can't join the military.
They can't go into the trades
if you can't read well enough.
And the military has just come out
saying that, that they can't
take 70% of applicants.
This was just a new report.
And NPR just did a whole...
a whole report on our nation having
a reading problem.
So the best part I think that we can
do is make sure the program is
complete, they can have a future,
and making sure that they do feel
welcomed. And I do want to say with
DEI, that is a local control
issue.
We need to make sure that
the local school boards
and school districts are
implementing their programs
for their schools.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Just to follow up, you're saying
that diversity, equity and inclusion
is something that should be under
local control.
It is under local control.
So if DEI, the program in
Milwaukee may look different than it
does in Rhinelander or
Green Bay or different areas like
that. So I've done a lot
of work in DEI in the schools
where I worked.
We had lots of programs and
goals around that, making sure that
our schools were diverse and
have equitable programs and
inclusion, so.
Okay.
So that was based off of what our
school plan.
All right, so we're gonna start this
next question with you, Ms.
Kenza.
If elected, will you work
with legislators to ensure that
all schools that receive taxpayer
funding must submit data
for school-wide report cards?
They already are supposed to, that
is the law.
So yes, I would want to make sure
that they all are and we want to
hold everyone accountable to
meeting deadlines, making sure
that the data is actually something
we can find and it's easy to
read.
There are report cards and
dashboards that like, Indiana does
a great job, Louisiana, Mississippi,
and I want to make sure that
Wisconsin also has
a way to, when we do collect that
information, We also have a way
that's really clear.
that's on a dashboard so
that everyone can see that data.
We need to do that and we must hold
everyone accountable to it.
Dr. Andrew Lee?
Thank you.
No, I, I, of course,
think that they should be, you
know, all schools that are
participating in the
voucher program should submit data
for school report cards in the same
way that public schools do, but
they don't.
So private schools that participate
in the Milwaukee Parental
Choice Program and the Racine
Choice Program, and then the,
and there's the third one, I can't
recall the name of it, they
submit their data to DPI, but only.
Private schools with only at least
20 choice students in the tested
grades, receive a choice
pupil report card from DPI.
So, I mean, there's ways that they
get around this and they're
separate from the public school
report cards and they only reflect
the voucher students and not the
full student population of
that school. So, I mean, there's
differences in accountability and I
would want them to be the same.
I'd also want our public schools
to have the same flexibilities that
we allow independent charters
and choice schools.
if the school district wanted
those.
But it does lead to equity and
transparency concerns.
We need to put this information also
on our state tax bills as
well, property tax bills.
Can I add to that just, I agree that
we need to make sure that there is
less complexity
for all of our schools.
And so making sure that it is
easier for schools.
Like you said, there are something
that independent charter schools
that don't have to do for the
traditional public schools.
So of course that we'd wanna make
sure that all the schools are
able to be held accountable in the
same ways.
Thank you.
We'll start this next question with
Dr. Underlee.
The viewer says over 50 percent of
school districts in Wisconsin are
considered rural school districts.
Many of these districts have
significant gaps, especially with
our students who come from poverty.
Many of these districts have
significant budget issues,
decaying infrastructure, and
significant shortages in
Often legislation, such as Act 20,
puts requirements on these districts
that simply cannot be met in our
current system as is.
How would the DPI
under your leadership support
districts who cannot raise the
funds or find the staff
to meet these sorts of legislative
mandates?
Sorry, I keep on messing up
with that mute button.
Um, no, this is really important and
it's very timely.
Um, Wisconsin rural school
districts, they are, they have a lot
of similarities, honestly, um, to
urban school districts, but, um,
they face significant challenges
like declining enrollment, um, staff
shortages.
Um, I mean, I,
as the, um,
viewer said, you know, there's
around 60% of them are.
our rural aging infrastructure, but
the thing that really seems to be
hurting them recently is the
unfunded mandates.
And while DPI can't independently
allocate funding, we
can support rural schools through
advocacy, strategic partnership,
resource sharing, grants,
for example, and those kinds of
initiatives.
And so I will
continue to advocate for increased
and equitable funding as I've been
sharing throughout this
evening.
I know that the legislature has
explored expanding virtual and
shared services for school districts
and for a variety of reasons, that's
really difficult to do.
But we need to look at recruiting
and retaining rural educators.
I think that's the way we can do
through loan forgiveness, grow your
own programs, and working with
the UW System and Technical College
for more pipeline programs.
Thank you.
Yeah, so I have talked to
superintendents in the rural areas
and I've promised to
work with them and
use again my relationships that I
have in the legislature and
the governor's office and
the ways that I have worked to
inform families
and school leaders and
teachers and how to mobilize around
an issue when their
new funding is needed.
And like I've said, I will be
a leader and helping with.
modernizing the funding formula with
getting an increase in special
education.
And we use an outdated special,
reimbursement is an outdated way of
paying for special ed.
There's 30 states across the
country that use a different way to
fund special education.
It's not by reimbursement.
They get paid for it in the moment,
right? Like they get it, not in the
moment, but they get the payment
that year. And so I would wanna look
to best practices to
ensure that our schools...
get the funding that they need to
be able to offer.
All right, thank you for that.
This question is somewhat similar
to the question around DEI, but it's
actually more specific to LGBTQ
students.
So I'll start with you, Ms.
Kinzer.
Do the candidates believe schools
have an obligation to support LGBTQ
students?
So essentially, your perspective on
this, particularly as we consider
some of the calls around
trans rights and students
who are gender nonconforming.
So if you could talk a little bit
more about that.
Yeah, I mean, of course, I want all
children should be welcomed in
school and feel safe and get a
great education.
And so I 100%
that students should be supported so
that they can come to school and
learn.
That's very important.
Dr. Underly.
Thank you.
You know, I've made prioritizing
all students feeling welcome and
safe in their schools,
not just LGBTQ,
you know, students with
disabilities, black students, and
other students of color.
And I've been very vocal about
not just achievement gaps, but
opportunity gaps.
And, you know, I've prioritized
also mental health support,
anti-bullying initiatives, and
promoting inclusive environments
for all students.
including LGBTQ students
and I fought for policies
that ensure basic needs are met you
know for so that all students feel
that they belong in their school
they need to have adults
in their school who see them
and you know
that they know that they can talk
to and who care for them and
that's why in my budget I've also
proposed investing in anti-bullying
and peer-to-peer mentoring programs
and including more social workers
and school psychologists because
public schools are for everyone and
every child should see themselves as
belonging in their public school.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee.
This may very well be our
last question.
I'm looking at the time
that we have here.
Viewer asks, how do we tie
funding to successful outcomes?
So I'll start with Dr. Underlee and
then we'll move to Ms.
Kinzer.
Yeah, I mean, of course, there
should be accountability.
I mean, these are public tax
dollars.
It's one of the largest expenditures
that we have in the state of
Wisconsin.
And that's the role of our local
school boards. That's why we elect
them.
And that's what their job is to
oversee student achievement
and to work with the school
administration, who then works with
the teachers and parents
to make sure that our kids are
successful. And that's where a lot
of the accountability is.
Report cards are great, but there
are other measures of
student success in our school
district. For example,
the number of kids who are, you
know, participating in activities
like band, for example,
or forensics or athletics,
the number of bullying incidents
that we have at our school to
measure, you know, the safety in
the school.
the types of academic programs
that we have in our school, like AP
and transcribed credit,
or transcripted credit, or dual
enrollment programs.
But then also looking at the quality
of instruction and making sure we're
investing in our teachers.
So there's a lot of different ways
we could be accountable, but the
funding is
really important so that we can make
sure that our schools are
successful.
Thank you, Ms.
Kinzler.
Can you repeat the question again?
Yeah, I've got so many on here, but
essentially.
not on the slide.
Yeah, it's like how do we hold
our schools accountable,
particularly as we're considering
the relationship between achievement
and accountability.
Yeah, so we need
to make sure that we update the
report card.
I think everyone has been asking for
that as I have traveled
across the state, that they
want the report card updated.
It's hard to understand that
the standards have changed, the cut
scores have changed.
And so they want
updated report card that's
easy to access,
easy to understand, able to.
see progress over the years
with growth and proficiency.
And so that's the way that school
boards can use the report
card and families and school
districts hold themselves
accountable to great results for
kids is to make sure that we have
data that is
consistent
and is aligned.
Like I had said, I would restore
high standards back to what we used
to use, But.
making sure that the report card is
something that we can use an easy.
Well, this is the closing of
our time together, as much as
I'd like us to have more time
together.
Unfortunately, we are out of time.
I would like to thank our
candidates, Ms.
Brittany Kinzer and Dr. Jill
Underley for spending this evening
with us.
I'd also like to thank the
participants who were
able to spend some time and ask the
important questions to
these two.
I also wanna thank
the U.
I want to thank the Wisconsin Eye
for live streaming this event.
Many thanks to the League of Women
Voters of Wisconsin, Wisconsin
Early Childhood Action Needed,
the NAACP of Wisconsin,
and the Wisconsin Public Education
Network for this opportunity to get
to know Wisconsin's next
superintendent of education.
Wisconsin Public Education Network's
election headquarters page will
archive this
form.
as well as responses that
the candidates have provided to
the survey and others and much, much
more. So please share these
resources widely and encourage
everyone you know to vote
on April 1st.
Thank you again for your time and
I wish you all the very best.
Have a great night.
And thank you, too, to our
moderator, Dr. Kevin Lawrence Henry,
Jr. for leading this
conversation tonight.
We are all so grateful to
all of you, and we invite you to
join us in our upcoming budget
advocacy.
This race matters much to
the upcoming budget passage, so
we hope you'll join us in that
conversation, too, and that
you will be part wherever you can
tag in and making sure that
Wisconsin kids have what they need,
both at the ballot box and beyond.
Thank you so much to everyone who
took part in this day and we hope
we'll see you at our upcoming
events.
Thank you, Ms.
Kinzer and Dr. Underlee and Dr.
Henry for your participation in
tonight's event and to all of our
co-sponsors.
Have a great night, everyone.
Recording stopped.
Thank you. Thank you so, so
much.
Um, I don't know if everyone is
still on. Is there just us?
Yeah, I think so.
We didn't we didn't end it yet.
There's the people
People are people are people are
leaving.
People are leaving.
but there are still like 50
attendees in here.
But we may still
be live, I will warn you.
I think some people were streaming.
So our recording has not.
Just thank you and I
really appreciate this opportunity.
I really enjoyed the opportunity.
And Dr. Henry, I have not
met you but I've heard really
positive things about you from,
we have a mutual friend.
And so just
thank you and thank you Heather for
working with my team.
I really appreciate it.
This is my first time ever running
for office and I'm really excited,
but just thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you and I hope
you all have a great night and we
will see you all soon.
Thank you, thank you.
It's good to see you all and
all right.
I think we're.
Heather, I'm going to go ahead and
end the meeting. Take care. Thanks,
Kevin.
No problem.
All right, you can go ahead and turn
it and shut it down, Tessa.
Thank you.