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You said you

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had some notes yourself.

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I would love to hear them. Just

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start off. What do you think about

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Gen-C policy?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Let me pull up my notes real quick.

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I won't, I'll put these away when

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I'm actually like talking.

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No, I'm sorry to take your time.

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Yeah, I did I did have some

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some notes on this You

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know I think the first thing I would

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mention is that the gender gap

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in American politics is nothing

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new The first time that we

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saw the gender Gap emerged

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statistically was 1980

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in part that was because

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a lot of male voters were

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particularly drawn to Ronald

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Reagan conservatism the

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two parties diverged

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on issues like abortion,

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and they also took different stances

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on issues like the Equal Rights

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Amendment.

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So I think the

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first thing I would like to do is

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lay out that context, that

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since 1980, we have

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seen a gender gap where women are

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more likely than men to vote for

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the Democratic Party.

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Now, it's not a

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massive gap.

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So we're not talking like 80%

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of women vote for the Democratic

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Party and 80% of men vote

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for the Republican Party.

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We're not that wide of a gap,

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but it is a gap nevertheless.

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And I think the striking thing to me

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is we've seen that

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gap in every major election

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since 1980.

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So it's a consistent pattern

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in American politics.

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Another potentially related gap,

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and this may come

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up in your story,

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not only do we see the gender

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gap in voter preference, but

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we also see a gender gap in

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voter turnout, where women

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have been a bit more

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likely than men to turn out to

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vote. Again, it's not a massive gap,

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but consistently we do

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see.

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A difference of a couple percentage

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points between the voter turnout

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rate of women and the voter turn out

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rate of men.

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There could be any number of

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explanations and that's kind

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of beyond, out of

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my lane a little bit to talk

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about what the reasons might

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be.

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But I think that's the general

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context. So when we're talking about

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the Gen Z gender gap,

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which is a very important topic.

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We're talking about it in the

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context of a long-standing

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pattern in American politics.

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But there are some unique aspects

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of the Gen Z gender

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divide that I think are worth

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discussing, and that

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maybe could be a bit unique

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when we compare the GenZ gender

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gap to other eras

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in American Politics or other years

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in American Politics.

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I think one,

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when I was researching this,

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the The explanation that

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popped out to me the most is

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abortion and the aftermath

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of the Dobbs ruling

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that overturned Roe versus Wade.

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When we think about abortion,

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there wasn't a ton

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of activity on that front

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since Roe vs.

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Wade and then the follow-up ruling,

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which was Planned Parenthood versus

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Casey.

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And I think that was in the early

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1990s.

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So for a long time, we

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were...

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Of wondering if and

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when the Supreme Court

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was going to give Roe

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versus Wade another look.

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And it finally happened under

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the Biden administration, during the

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Biden administration.

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That's seen as one of the reasons

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that Democrats were able to avoid

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catastrophic losses in

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the 2022 midterm election,

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that women were particularly

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mobilized as a result of

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the Dobbs ruling that um

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that overturned

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the Roe versus Wade ruling.

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Now, the Dobbs ruling might have had

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a particular impact on

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younger female voters,

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because they're coming of age

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at a time when there

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is significant turmoil

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on the issue of abortion.

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And when we see younger

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female voters rank their

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issue priorities, the issue

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of abortion tends to be

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pretty close to the top of the list,

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perhaps at the top the list.

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We don't see that same

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prioritization for male voters.

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Now many male voters do pay

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close attention to the

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issue of abortion.

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They did pay close to attention to

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the Dobbs ruling.

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And many male voter have

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pretty liberal views on abortion.

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But it's just not the same

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priority for lots

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of male voters on average

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that it is for female voters.

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And so, if I were to

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pick out, to me, the most obvious

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explanation for the gender gap

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in Gen Z voters,

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it would be the aftermath of the

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Dobbs ruling and the

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resulting gap between

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young men and young women in just

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how much they prioritize the issue

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of abortion.

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But there are other reasons as well.

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Yeah, that's actually interesting

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that you picked that out.

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One of my questions was going to be,

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when I've been looking into this

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story, a lot of the

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framing seems to be on Gen Z men.

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Why are they behind?

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Why are not getting degrees as much

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as the women?

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Absolutely.

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They're not getting jobs as much as

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the woman, stuff like that.

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Why do you think that's the frame?

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Do you have a sense?

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Yeah, I mean, I think when

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I think about young men,

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there's a book that had a lot of

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impact on my thinking.

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It's called Of Boys and Men by

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Richard Reeves.

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And he's emerged as

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a leading scholar of young

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men.

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And what he points out is

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not only are women

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making significant gains

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in education and employment,

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but men are actually going backwards

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on those metrics.

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So we're seeing a widening divide

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in educational attainment

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and employment outcomes because

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women are advancing and

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men are falling backwards.

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And I do think that that is

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part of the story.

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It might not be the full story, but

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I think there's a role for

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the educational and

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employment situations of young

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men. Where they were

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perhaps drawn to Donald Trump's

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message of affordability

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and economic

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prosperity because

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lots of young men feel like

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they face an uncertain

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economic future and

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they perhaps were drawn

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to the candidate who they

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felt had the most compelling message

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on the economy.

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But do you think the

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issue of the economy, do you that is

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something that is,

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obviously that doesn't affect just

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men, but do you it's particularly

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unique to men that's an effect of

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more?

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I would go back to that point

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about prioritization.

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I think both men and women,

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I think both young men and young

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women care deeply about economic

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conditions.

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However, young women

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are putting

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more of a priority on abortion.

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So that's up the list competing

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with the economy as

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a major issue concern.

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For men, it really is

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the economy at the top of

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the list, and abortion is

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down the list.

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So for women, there are a

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lot of priorities that are up there

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with abortion.

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For men abortion ranks down

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the list with the economy

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kind of by itself at the the

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top the list and I think that's

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why young women were

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drawn to Kamala Harris

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because Kamala had

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a significant focus on the

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issue of abortion, which

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was compelling to voters who

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care more about abortion and have

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more liberal attitudes on abortion.

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But I agree that a lot

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of the pop culture commentary

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has been focused on

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what's going on with young men.

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And I think there is a

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sense of urgency within the

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Democratic Party to try to figure

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out why they lost

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so much ground.

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With young men in the 2024

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presidential election and

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trying to figure out how the party

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can come up with a more compelling

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message and a more appealing policy

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platform that might help reverse

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those losses.

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Yeah, tell me more about that,

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because in my research I have

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been seeing that there's a sentiment

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among men that they feel pushed out

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of the democratic party, that

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they're not feeling welcomed into

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that space. Do you think that's

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true? Do you that is something that

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is a problem within the left?

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Yeah, yeah, and there

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could be a couple explanations for

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that. I think to me,

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the explanation for the voting

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behavior of young men that has

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gained the most attraction is

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the so-called Manosphere, with

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podcast influencers such

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as Joe Rogan, Theo

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Vonn, Andrew Schultz,

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people like Andrew Tate who

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advance a self-improvement message.

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They advance a message

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of masculinity, really embracing

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masculinity.

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And some Democrats are

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honestly not entirely comfortable

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with the full-on

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embrace of masculinity that

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we see in the so-called

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Manosphere.

294
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:36,880
We've seen,

295
00:09:37,980 --> 00:09:40,079
if you wanna, I think

296
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,899
there's lots of...

297
00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:43,639
There's lots of hot takes out there

298
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,399
about woke ism.

299
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,139
And if that is harming Democrats

300
00:09:47,140 --> 00:09:48,419
with young men,

301
00:09:49,459 --> 00:09:51,379
I think the jury is

302
00:09:51,380 --> 00:09:52,419
still out on that.

303
00:09:52,420 --> 00:09:54,179
I think that jury is out on all of

304
00:09:54,180 --> 00:09:55,999
this, by the way.

305
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,759
Like, you know, another explanation

306
00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,679
that popped up to me is the

307
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,799
algorithmic world in which

308
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,019
Gen Z people

309
00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:05,020
live,

310
00:10:06,459 --> 00:10:09,279
where if women have,

311
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,509
if young women have curated

312
00:10:11,510 --> 00:10:13,829
feeds that speak more to women's

313
00:10:13,830 --> 00:10:15,769
issues, while young men have

314
00:10:15,770 --> 00:10:18,069
curated feeds that speak to

315
00:10:18,070 --> 00:10:19,989
what we would

316
00:10:19,990 --> 00:10:22,509
often think of as masculine issues,

317
00:10:22,510 --> 00:10:24,389
then that could push the

318
00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:26,409
two genders further apart

319
00:10:26,410 --> 00:10:28,369
and cause them to

320
00:10:28,370 --> 00:10:31,049
be more drawn to

321
00:10:31,050 --> 00:10:33,229
either party, but more

322
00:10:33,230 --> 00:10:34,809
Polarized, I think, is kind of the

323
00:10:34,810 --> 00:10:36,409
word that I'm searching for there.

324
00:10:38,210 --> 00:10:39,749
Pete Buttigieg had a really

325
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:41,769
memorable quote about this,

326
00:10:41,770 --> 00:10:43,629
where he said that Joe

327
00:10:43,630 --> 00:10:45,869
Rogan, Theovon,

328
00:10:45,870 --> 00:10:47,449
Andrew Schultz and the rest of the

329
00:10:47,450 --> 00:10:49,409
Manosphere aren't overtly

330
00:10:49,410 --> 00:10:50,410
political,

331
00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:52,539
but...

332
00:10:52,540 --> 00:10:54,599
So his

333
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,179
theory, which I think there's

334
00:10:56,180 --> 00:10:58,279
something to it, people aren't

335
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,239
watching Joe Rogan or

336
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,959
listening to Joe Rogin or listening

337
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,239
to Theo Von because they crave

338
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,179
political content.

339
00:11:06,180 --> 00:11:08,159
I think the young men who are

340
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,039
drawn to those programs are looking

341
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:11,679
for entertainment.

342
00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:13,559
They're looking for self-improvement

343
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:15,320
content. They're look for comedy.

344
00:11:16,580 --> 00:11:18,699
And politics finds them there

345
00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:20,539
rather than them seeking out

346
00:11:20,540 --> 00:11:21,629
politics.

347
00:11:21,630 --> 00:11:23,669
So I think JD Vance being on

348
00:11:23,670 --> 00:11:25,789
Joe Rogan recently is a

349
00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:27,669
good example of that, where

350
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:29,629
I mean, like a lot of Joe Rogans

351
00:11:29,630 --> 00:11:31,509
guests have nothing to

352
00:11:31,510 --> 00:11:33,329
do with politics, like a lot of Theo

353
00:11:33,330 --> 00:11:35,209
Vans guests, have nothing

354
00:11:35,210 --> 00:11:36,329
to do with politics.

355
00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:38,049
But some of them do.

356
00:11:38,050 --> 00:11:39,709
And one thing that I noticed during

357
00:11:39,710 --> 00:11:41,949
the 2024 campaign is

358
00:11:41,950 --> 00:11:43,849
that Donald Trump and JD

359
00:11:43,850 --> 00:11:45,969
Vance made what

360
00:11:45,970 --> 00:11:47,989
seemed like countless appearances

361
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:50,049
on podcasts.

362
00:11:50,050 --> 00:11:52,409
That have a significant

363
00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:54,449
male audience, particularly

364
00:11:54,450 --> 00:11:56,529
a young male audience.

365
00:11:56,530 --> 00:11:58,609
So perhaps it was the

366
00:11:58,610 --> 00:12:00,509
issue positions, perhaps it

367
00:12:00,510 --> 00:12:02,849
the persona of Donald Trump,

368
00:12:02,850 --> 00:12:04,889
but also I think the

369
00:12:04,890 --> 00:12:06,909
Republican ticket made a much more

370
00:12:06,910 --> 00:12:08,829
concerted effort to

371
00:12:08,830 --> 00:12:10,909
be in the media spaces

372
00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:13,509
that young men are drawn to,

373
00:12:13,510 --> 00:12:15,709
where Kamala Harris was on

374
00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:17,549
I think, memorably to me, was on the

375
00:12:17,550 --> 00:12:19,629
Call Her Daddy podcast with

376
00:12:19,630 --> 00:12:21,589
Alex Cooper, which has a

377
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:24,589
significant young female audience.

378
00:12:24,590 --> 00:12:26,809
And so I think Donald Trump

379
00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:28,809
on Joe Rogan

380
00:12:28,810 --> 00:12:30,829
versus Kamala Harris

381
00:12:30,830 --> 00:12:32,909
on Call Her daddy and

382
00:12:32,910 --> 00:12:35,409
Alex Cooper is emblematic

383
00:12:35,410 --> 00:12:37,389
of how the two sides were thinking

384
00:12:37,390 --> 00:12:39,469
about that new media podcast

385
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:42,039
space in the 2024 campaign.

386
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,039
Yeah, and you know,

387
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,859
going

388
00:12:45,860 --> 00:12:47,679
back to that 2024 campaign, I

389
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:48,939
think that's where a lot of this

390
00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:50,779
conversation about the Gen

391
00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:51,979
Z gender divide came up.

392
00:12:51,980 --> 00:12:54,579
Do you see that as something that's

393
00:12:54,580 --> 00:12:56,379
going to happen again this midterms?

394
00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:57,439
Is it is it got worse?

395
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:58,219
Do you think do you think it's

396
00:12:58,220 --> 00:12:58,929
gotten better?

397
00:12:58,930 --> 00:13:00,949
Yeah, and you know, one

398
00:13:00,950 --> 00:13:02,669
thing that just came to mind for

399
00:13:02,670 --> 00:13:05,129
potentially for your story is that

400
00:13:05,130 --> 00:13:07,089
UW-La Crosse swung heavily

401
00:13:07,090 --> 00:13:09,069
to the right in

402
00:13:09,070 --> 00:13:11,249
the 2024 election.

403
00:13:11,250 --> 00:13:13,449
I don't think we're at all unique

404
00:13:13,450 --> 00:13:15,349
in that, but

405
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:17,249
you know I think one thing

406
00:13:17,250 --> 00:13:18,769
if you kind of want to do a data

407
00:13:18,770 --> 00:13:20,649
dive for the story is to look at the

408
00:13:20,650 --> 00:13:22,489
voting patterns of the UW

409
00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:23,490
campuses.

410
00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:26,469
And I think what you'll find is

411
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:28,869
that there was a pretty significant.

412
00:13:28,870 --> 00:13:30,769
Shift towards Donald Trump

413
00:13:30,770 --> 00:13:32,889
compared to, like, 2020.

414
00:13:32,890 --> 00:13:35,029
But that

415
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:36,789
is the question.

416
00:13:36,790 --> 00:13:39,169
Was 2024 a one-off

417
00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:41,209
in gender polarization,

418
00:13:41,210 --> 00:13:43,189
or is it the sign of things

419
00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:44,309
to come?

420
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:46,329
Now, there is an argument

421
00:13:46,330 --> 00:13:48,529
for this being a durable shift.

422
00:13:48,530 --> 00:13:50,409
And that argument is

423
00:13:50,410 --> 00:13:52,449
that people's

424
00:13:52,450 --> 00:13:54,649
formative political years tend

425
00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:57,469
to have long-lasting impacts.

426
00:13:57,470 --> 00:13:59,329
When I'm teaching this in my

427
00:13:59,330 --> 00:14:01,189
classes, I always like to use

428
00:14:01,190 --> 00:14:03,089
the example of the New Deal,

429
00:14:03,090 --> 00:14:04,949
how people who were

430
00:14:04,950 --> 00:14:06,929
young during the Great Depression,

431
00:14:06,930 --> 00:14:08,889
people who are teenagers and in

432
00:14:08,890 --> 00:14:10,289
their early 20s during the great

433
00:14:10,290 --> 00:14:12,169
depression, many of them became

434
00:14:12,170 --> 00:14:14,249
lifelong Democrats because

435
00:14:14,250 --> 00:14:16,089
they felt that Roosevelt was

436
00:14:16,090 --> 00:14:18,049
getting the job done in

437
00:14:18,050 --> 00:14:19,389
trying to respond to the Great

438
00:14:19,390 --> 00:14:20,349
depression.

439
00:14:20,350 --> 00:14:22,709
And that had not just.

440
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:25,169
An effect on them during Roosevelt's

441
00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:26,849
presidency, but well beyond that

442
00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:28,729
because it shaped their impression

443
00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:30,749
of the Democratic Party as a whole

444
00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:32,769
and shaped the

445
00:14:32,770 --> 00:14:34,689
Democratic party brand for decades

446
00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:36,009
to come.

447
00:14:36,010 --> 00:14:37,389
The other example that I like to use

448
00:14:37,390 --> 00:14:39,069
with my students is the Reagan

449
00:14:39,070 --> 00:14:41,609
Revolution of the 1980s.

450
00:14:41,610 --> 00:14:43,489
How many young people who

451
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:45,349
came of political age during

452
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:47,449
the 1980s are

453
00:14:47,450 --> 00:14:49,749
still voting Republican because

454
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:51,729
those formative years had

455
00:14:51,730 --> 00:14:54,069
such a profound impact on them

456
00:14:54,070 --> 00:14:56,129
in drawing them to a

457
00:14:56,130 --> 00:14:57,429
conservative ideology.

458
00:14:59,729 --> 00:15:01,809
So the argument

459
00:15:01,810 --> 00:15:04,070
in favor of this being a durable,

460
00:15:06,340 --> 00:15:08,519
thing in politics.

461
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,239
The argument in favor of this being

462
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,379
a durable trend in politics

463
00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:14,339
is that people's

464
00:15:14,340 --> 00:15:16,419
formative political years can

465
00:15:16,420 --> 00:15:18,399
have long lasting effects.

466
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,379
The habits and the preferences and

467
00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:22,099
the views that people develop during

468
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:24,019
their teens and 20s can

469
00:15:24,020 --> 00:15:26,999
affect them well beyond those ages.

470
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,939
And I think for Republicans,

471
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:31,399
that's extremely promising.

472
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,519
Because, you

473
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:35,539
know, I think...

474
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,159
There are several

475
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,319
mistaken views, I think,

476
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,419
of young voters.

477
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,699
I think the left had...

478
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,419
I think there was a false sense of

479
00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:51,500
security on the left about...

480
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:55,439
I think there was a false sense of

481
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,739
security on the left about

482
00:15:57,740 --> 00:15:59,759
them being able to win young

483
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,039
voters indefinitely,

484
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,859
that it was bound to happen,

485
00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:05,539
that young voters would be drawn to

486
00:16:05,540 --> 00:16:07,319
the Democratic Party, that the young

487
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,319
voters who would be liberal, and

488
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,319
that they wouldn't really have to do

489
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,139
much to try to attract young

490
00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:15,519
voters, to put the work in,

491
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,239
to craft a compelling message to

492
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,818
young voters.

493
00:16:18,819 --> 00:16:20,759
And then on the right,

494
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,049
I think there had been a real...

495
00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:25,009
Well, I think when

496
00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:27,169
I heard the rhetoric

497
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:29,289
among some on the right about

498
00:16:29,290 --> 00:16:31,229
young voters, there seemed to

499
00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:32,929
be almost a fatalism.

500
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:35,289
Like they're doomed because

501
00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:37,149
young voters can't

502
00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:39,129
possibly vote conservative.

503
00:16:39,130 --> 00:16:40,969
Like it's unthinkable that

504
00:16:40,970 --> 00:16:42,169
they would be drawn to the

505
00:16:42,170 --> 00:16:43,689
Republican Party.

506
00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:45,169
But it turns out that those

507
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:47,389
assumptions were

508
00:16:47,390 --> 00:16:49,429
significant simplifications

509
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:50,649
of how young people vote.

510
00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:55,009
Young people are often not

511
00:16:55,010 --> 00:16:57,169
significantly attached to either

512
00:16:57,170 --> 00:16:58,389
political party.

513
00:16:58,390 --> 00:17:00,549
As people age, they become more

514
00:17:00,550 --> 00:17:02,369
attached because they

515
00:17:02,370 --> 00:17:04,689
develop more durable preferences

516
00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:06,848
and they develop habits.

517
00:17:06,849 --> 00:17:08,669
But young people, just

518
00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:10,289
because they haven't been alive that

519
00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:12,309
much or voting for that long, have

520
00:17:12,310 --> 00:17:14,309
not developed durable

521
00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:16,529
preferences, have not develop habits

522
00:17:16,530 --> 00:17:18,029
of how they vote.

523
00:17:18,030 --> 00:17:20,068
So the young vote is

524
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:22,209
completely up for grabs.

525
00:17:22,210 --> 00:17:24,108
And I think both sides

526
00:17:24,109 --> 00:17:26,049
are starting to realize

527
00:17:26,050 --> 00:17:27,689
that, certainly in the aftermath of

528
00:17:27,690 --> 00:17:30,208
the 2024 election.

529
00:17:30,209 --> 00:17:32,289
Yeah, no, one of the things that

530
00:17:32,290 --> 00:17:33,569
I found in my research is that

531
00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:35,209
apparently there's this huge

532
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:37,109
independent block among

533
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:38,929
Gen Z. What do you make

534
00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:40,909
sense of that? Is that just young

535
00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:42,289
people not being attached to a party

536
00:17:42,290 --> 00:17:43,429
yet? Is that the sign of people

537
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:45,249
being dissatisfied with the parties?

538
00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:46,250
Yeah.

539
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:48,729
I do think there is widespread

540
00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:50,709
dissatisfaction among

541
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:53,729
young voters with both parties.

542
00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:55,969
And my word of caution

543
00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:58,069
to the Republican Party about

544
00:17:58,070 --> 00:18:00,209
this trend with young men

545
00:18:00,210 --> 00:18:02,189
is that it's not really a

546
00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:04,349
trend. It's one election.

547
00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:07,729
And young men are

548
00:18:07,730 --> 00:18:09,709
not overwhelmingly

549
00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:11,209
becoming conservative.

550
00:18:11,210 --> 00:18:13,309
Like, we're not seeing young

551
00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:15,709
men self-identify.

552
00:18:15,710 --> 00:18:18,669
In droves as conservative.

553
00:18:18,670 --> 00:18:21,289
Now, they could potentially do

554
00:18:21,290 --> 00:18:23,489
that as they develop

555
00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:25,509
more concrete preferences and

556
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:27,869
as they get into the habit of

557
00:18:27,870 --> 00:18:29,789
voting and as the follow politics

558
00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:30,790
more.

559
00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:34,549
And that makes me wonder,

560
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:37,829
OK, if young men

561
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:40,069
were drawn to Donald Trump,

562
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:42,689
but they're not overwhelmingly

563
00:18:42,690 --> 00:18:44,799
becoming conservative.

564
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,699
Does that mean that it was based

565
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:49,239
on the momentary

566
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,179
economic conditions of

567
00:18:51,180 --> 00:18:52,239
the election?

568
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,039
Does it mean that they were drawn to

569
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,239
the personality of Donald Trump

570
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,799
and the toughness and

571
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,419
the combativeness that he

572
00:19:00,420 --> 00:19:01,420
demonstrated?

573
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,659
I mean, when I think about that,

574
00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:07,839
I think how Trump makes these

575
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,839
grand entrances into UFC

576
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:10,799
events.

577
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,699
And how those are events

578
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:14,659
that young men really like to

579
00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:15,599
watch.

580
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,199
And he's almost kind of the star of

581
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,099
the show in those events.

582
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:20,859
And I think it's emblematic of the

583
00:19:20,860 --> 00:19:22,879
strategy of

584
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,739
Donald Trump.

585
00:19:24,740 --> 00:19:25,859
There was something else I was just

586
00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:26,860
going to mention.

587
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:30,219
Yeah, so,

588
00:19:31,260 --> 00:19:33,599
you know, I'm.

589
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,079
I mean, I think the other thing I

590
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,719
would have to mention is

591
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,559
the Charlie Kirk

592
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,679
factor and Turning Point USA.

593
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:42,680
Okay.

594
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,199
You know.

595
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,099
When I think about this sense

596
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:49,179
of fatalism on the right

597
00:19:49,180 --> 00:19:51,419
about young people inevitably

598
00:19:51,420 --> 00:19:53,479
being liberal and the

599
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,379
sense that there's no

600
00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:57,319
hope in even trying to appeal

601
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,519
to young people, Charlie Kirk

602
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,439
did not have that

603
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,319
level of assumption.

604
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,099
Charlie Kirk

605
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,659
I think one thing that set Charlie

606
00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:12,559
Kirk apart from a lot

607
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,439
of people on the right is

608
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,499
he treated the Gen Z vote

609
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:18,839
as up for grabs and

610
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,779
he treated the GenZ

611
00:20:20,780 --> 00:20:23,279
vote as highly persuadable

612
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,959
that he could show up on college

613
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,459
campuses, that he could make his

614
00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:28,519
arguments and win over

615
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,519
young people and

616
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,539
that's not a sentiment

617
00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:34,519
that everyone on the Right

618
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,549
had. But it is a sentiment

619
00:20:36,550 --> 00:20:38,069
that Charlie Kirk had.

620
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:40,049
And I think it's one thing that

621
00:20:40,050 --> 00:20:42,089
made him particularly influential.

622
00:20:43,710 --> 00:20:45,789
Because there is

623
00:20:45,790 --> 00:20:48,689
that sense that college

624
00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:50,549
students are bound to be

625
00:20:50,550 --> 00:20:52,249
liberal. Young people are bound be

626
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:53,250
liberal,

627
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:59,729
and I think I'm

628
00:20:59,730 --> 00:21:01,829
not in a position to evaluate

629
00:21:01,830 --> 00:21:04,469
exactly how many votes.

630
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:06,089
Turning Point USA might have

631
00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:07,929
converted or their effect on

632
00:21:07,930 --> 00:21:09,209
voter turnout.

633
00:21:09,210 --> 00:21:11,429
But what I can say is

634
00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:13,249
Turning Point U.S.A.

635
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:15,269
Fundamentally believe that

636
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:17,709
Gen Z is persuadable,

637
00:21:17,710 --> 00:21:19,629
that GenZ can be won over to

638
00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:21,209
the Republican Party.

639
00:21:21,210 --> 00:21:23,209
And I think that gave

640
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:25,189
that organization and Charlie Kirk

641
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:27,409
tremendous influence.

642
00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:29,509
Do you think the

643
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:30,929
stance of Turning Point USA has

644
00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:32,969
changed after his

645
00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:33,449
assassination?

646
00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:35,329
Yeah, I think the future of Turning

647
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:37,229
Point USA remains to be

648
00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:39,089
seen because Charlie Kirk's

649
00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:41,069
power of personality was

650
00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:43,069
a major driving force of

651
00:21:43,070 --> 00:21:44,529
that movement.

652
00:21:44,530 --> 00:21:46,689
I mean, he made countless viral

653
00:21:46,690 --> 00:21:48,669
videos, viral TikToks.

654
00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:51,169
He understood the media ecosystem

655
00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:53,189
of Gen Z, and I think that

656
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:54,509
made him powerful.

657
00:21:54,510 --> 00:21:56,669
He understand how to make

658
00:21:56,670 --> 00:21:57,949
viral moments.

659
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:59,889
He understands how you

660
00:21:59,890 --> 00:22:02,809
could pack a lot of content into.

661
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:05,609
30 seconds, 45 seconds,

662
00:22:05,610 --> 00:22:07,889
the exact type of way that

663
00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:10,329
Gen Z consumes media.

664
00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:12,289
So I think Turning

665
00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:14,229
Point USA is part of a broader

666
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:16,469
story of how to package media

667
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:18,129
for young people.

668
00:22:18,130 --> 00:22:19,769
And I think Democrats are playing a

669
00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:21,749
little bit of catch up on that.

670
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:23,569
Um, you know,

671
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:27,390
um, you have to, um.

672
00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:31,150
You know, I think, um...

673
00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:34,289
The older forms of media are

674
00:22:34,290 --> 00:22:35,789
not dead.

675
00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:39,749
A successful campaign has

676
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:41,969
to do door knocking.

677
00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:44,009
A successful has to

678
00:22:44,010 --> 00:22:46,049
TV ads,

679
00:22:46,050 --> 00:22:47,969
particularly a statewide campaign or

680
00:22:47,970 --> 00:22:50,409
a competitive congressional race.

681
00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:52,249
But that's not going to

682
00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:55,129
work to reach younger voters.

683
00:22:55,130 --> 00:22:57,109
For a candidate to make

684
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:58,789
a successful outreach to younger

685
00:22:58,790 --> 00:23:00,649
voters, They have to have a

686
00:23:00,650 --> 00:23:02,399
digital media strategy.

687
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,319
And I think that's

688
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,059
a work in progress for a lot of

689
00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:07,179
candidates. I think it's a working

690
00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:09,039
progress for the Democratic Party.

691
00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:15,479
And I mean,

692
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,739
one

693
00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:19,739
of the interesting questions that

694
00:23:19,740 --> 00:23:21,619
Democrats have asked, and it's not

695
00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:23,439
the right question, who

696
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,949
will be the Joe Rogan of the left?

697
00:23:25,950 --> 00:23:28,189
That's the wrong question because

698
00:23:28,190 --> 00:23:30,309
Joe Rogan is not, first

699
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:32,249
and foremost, a political figure.

700
00:23:32,250 --> 00:23:34,189
Now he's, I think,

701
00:23:34,190 --> 00:23:35,749
friendly to a lot of conservative

702
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:37,589
causes, but he also

703
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:40,169
had a very enthusiastic

704
00:23:40,170 --> 00:23:42,069
interview with Bernie Sanders, with

705
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:43,109
James Tallarico.

706
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:45,389
So Rogan is not

707
00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:47,409
a political creature in the way

708
00:23:47,410 --> 00:23:49,889
that a lot of Democrats think

709
00:23:49,890 --> 00:23:50,999
of him as.

710
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,019
And I think that's part of the mind

711
00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:55,339
shift. Like Joe Rogan is a cultural

712
00:23:55,340 --> 00:23:57,359
figure rather than a political

713
00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:58,139
figure.

714
00:23:58,140 --> 00:23:59,759
So if Democrats are looking for

715
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,839
their version of Joe Rogin,

716
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,299
I'm not sure that they're going to

717
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:05,379
be successful because

718
00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:07,719
Joe Rogon is not

719
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,679
a political figure first and

720
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,680
foremost.

721
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,519
Like going back to that quote that I

722
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,419
recall from Pete Buttigieg, he

723
00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:17,459
said, you know, young men are

724
00:24:17,460 --> 00:24:19,339
looking for self-improvement

725
00:24:19,340 --> 00:24:20,740
tips. They're looking for.

726
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,239
He said, young men

727
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,619
are looking for self-improvement

728
00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:27,719
tips, they're looking for

729
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,639
comedy, they are looking for

730
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,619
which protein powder to buy,

731
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:34,899
and politics finds them.

732
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:36,459
And I just think that's the perfect

733
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:38,139
way to view it.

734
00:24:38,140 --> 00:24:39,979
A lot of young people are

735
00:24:39,980 --> 00:24:41,959
not seeking out politics,

736
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,899
but politics finds THEM

737
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:44,959
in their ecosystem.

738
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:48,149
Yeah, and going

739
00:24:48,150 --> 00:24:50,029
back to what you said about

740
00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:51,669
the Democratic Party just kind of

741
00:24:51,670 --> 00:24:52,909
assuming that they're going to win.

742
00:24:52,910 --> 00:24:53,910
Right.

743
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:55,940
I'm a young person,

744
00:24:57,900 --> 00:24:59,759
and you know, I look around at the

745
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,799
world, we have had six

746
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,619
members of Congress die

747
00:25:03,620 --> 00:25:04,620
this time.

748
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:06,839
The Republican part, we don't know

749
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:07,939
the Democratic candidate, but the

750
00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:08,939
Republican candidate in the

751
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:10,040
governor's race is 68.

752
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,539
We've had however many presidents

753
00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:14,939
born in 1946.

754
00:25:14,940 --> 00:25:17,419
It seems like it's a boomer's world,

755
00:25:17,420 --> 00:25:18,940
and I'm just living in it.

756
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,239
How do you think that affects the

757
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:23,669
youth, though?

758
00:25:23,670 --> 00:25:25,369
Yeah, I think in a couple ways.

759
00:25:26,570 --> 00:25:28,909
Political science research shows

760
00:25:28,910 --> 00:25:30,809
that lots of voters

761
00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:32,749
are drawn to

762
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,309
people who look like them.

763
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:36,349
Now, that could be any number of

764
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:37,769
aspects of someone's identity.

765
00:25:37,770 --> 00:25:38,709
It could be their race.

766
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:40,009
It could their gender.

767
00:25:40,010 --> 00:25:41,889
And I think it could be the age,

768
00:25:41,890 --> 00:25:43,889
too. And I the age issue

769
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:45,709
is one that had been overlooked

770
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:47,589
for a long time within my

771
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:49,409
field and in the political world

772
00:25:49,410 --> 00:25:51,199
more generally.

773
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,219
But I think in the aftermath of

774
00:25:53,220 --> 00:25:55,399
Joe Biden's presidency and

775
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,299
with high profile issues

776
00:25:57,300 --> 00:25:59,159
like multiple members of Congress

777
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,099
dying in office, the current

778
00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:03,039
situation with Mitch McConnell,

779
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,259
things that just grab people's

780
00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:06,159
attention and call attention to the

781
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,299
issue of age.

782
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:08,659
I think that's a very real issue

783
00:26:08,660 --> 00:26:10,859
these days in politics.

784
00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:12,679
And again, I think maybe it

785
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,299
wasn't such a high profile issue

786
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:16,319
when you had folks like Barack Obama

787
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,439
in office, who was

788
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,679
fairly young.

789
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,099
You know, people weren't really

790
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:22,359
talking about George W.

791
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:23,859
Bush's age. Bill Clinton was

792
00:26:23,860 --> 00:26:24,860
relatively young.

793
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,939
Now there were concerns about Ronald

794
00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:29,919
Reagan's age,

795
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,819
particularly towards the end of his

796
00:26:31,820 --> 00:26:32,820
presidency.

797
00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:35,959
But still, that didn't stop young

798
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,459
people from being drawn to Ronald

799
00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:39,559
Reagan, just as Trump's advanced

800
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,379
age is not stopping young

801
00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:43,019
men from being drawn to him.

802
00:26:43,020 --> 00:26:44,939
But I do think age is

803
00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:46,259
an important aspect of

804
00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:48,099
representation and it's becoming

805
00:26:48,100 --> 00:26:50,439
more important as

806
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,379
people pay more attention to the age

807
00:26:52,380 --> 00:26:53,440
of politicians.

808
00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:56,438
You know, on that note,

809
00:26:56,439 --> 00:26:58,639
when it comes to the

810
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,640
issue of gender,

811
00:27:01,020 --> 00:27:02,020
you know,

812
00:27:03,390 --> 00:27:05,309
In terms of understanding

813
00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:08,629
why

814
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:11,049
Gen Z men and women polarized

815
00:27:11,050 --> 00:27:12,050
in 2024,

816
00:27:13,030 --> 00:27:14,449
we could just kind of look at the

817
00:27:14,450 --> 00:27:16,409
obvious and say there was a female

818
00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:18,149
Democratic candidate and a male

819
00:27:18,150 --> 00:27:19,889
Republican candidate.

820
00:27:19,890 --> 00:27:21,709
It might just be that simple

821
00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:23,569
or that could be part of the

822
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:24,689
story.

823
00:27:24,690 --> 00:27:26,529
I'm not sure that that's a

824
00:27:26,530 --> 00:27:28,929
full satisfying explanation,

825
00:27:28,930 --> 00:27:30,869
but I think we should at least put

826
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:32,729
that on the table as a potential

827
00:27:32,730 --> 00:27:35,169
explanation and how

828
00:27:35,170 --> 00:27:37,229
gender was communicated by

829
00:27:37,230 --> 00:27:39,829
both candidates during the

830
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:40,830
election.

831
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:45,369
So I hesitate

832
00:27:45,370 --> 00:27:47,249
to push that explanation too

833
00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:49,109
far, but we

834
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:51,349
might just reach for kind an obvious

835
00:27:51,350 --> 00:27:52,529
explanation like that.

836
00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:55,669
Sorry, what was your question?

837
00:27:55,670 --> 00:27:56,829
Isn't that old versus young?

838
00:27:56,830 --> 00:27:57,749
Oh, yeah, yeah.

839
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:58,750
Old versus young.

840
00:27:59,580 --> 00:28:01,459
You know that could speak to the

841
00:28:01,460 --> 00:28:03,479
broader economic insecurity that

842
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,239
many young people feel.

843
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,419
And that's why I do think that

844
00:28:07,420 --> 00:28:09,259
the young vote is up

845
00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:11,319
for grabs because

846
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,739
the candidates who express

847
00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:15,579
a clear vision on

848
00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:17,499
the economy I think are going

849
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:19,499
to be well suited to pick up

850
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:22,039
young voters who have

851
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,279
justified concerns about

852
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,638
buying a house someday.

853
00:28:26,639 --> 00:28:28,619
And affording health care,

854
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:30,659
affording a school, having the

855
00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:32,639
type of job where they can live a

856
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,679
comfortable life and start a

857
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,779
family, dealing with

858
00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:37,940
health care costs.

859
00:28:39,979 --> 00:28:40,979
Yeah,

860
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,099
so, you know,

861
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:45,100
I think,

862
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:50,019
yeah, so I think.

863
00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:51,839
I mean, I'd also have to

864
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,340
throw into the mix, like, artificial

865
00:28:53,341 --> 00:28:54,679
intelligence, right?

866
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,299
I mean artificial intelligence and

867
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:58,719
how, you know,

868
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,699
I think artificial intelligence is

869
00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:03,719
almost insult to injury to

870
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,159
young voters because they had

871
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,979
already been facing a

872
00:29:06,980 --> 00:29:08,899
precarious economic future

873
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:10,759
with the skyrocketing

874
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,299
cost of housing, the sky-rocketing

875
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:15,719
costs of care and education,

876
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,659
the challenges in

877
00:29:17,660 --> 00:29:20,449
getting a job that pays people.

878
00:29:20,450 --> 00:29:21,769
The type of wage to live a

879
00:29:21,770 --> 00:29:23,769
comfortable life, now you throw

880
00:29:23,770 --> 00:29:25,709
AI into the mix, and

881
00:29:25,710 --> 00:29:27,769
that adds even more uncertainty

882
00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:29,909
about their economic future

883
00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:31,729
due to the potential for

884
00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:33,709
AI to be disruptive to the

885
00:29:33,710 --> 00:29:35,389
economy, to be destructive to the

886
00:29:35,390 --> 00:29:37,349
labor market, to be descriptive

887
00:29:37,350 --> 00:29:40,669
to all aspects of society.

888
00:29:40,670 --> 00:29:43,949
So I think that,

889
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:46,049
you know, I mean...

890
00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:47,989
I mean, for your story, I mean

891
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:49,829
one interesting thing to note

892
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:51,829
would be,

893
00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:53,829
and it's just this video, these

894
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:55,429
videos are just etched in my mind,

895
00:29:56,750 --> 00:29:58,989
like mentions of AI getting booed

896
00:29:58,990 --> 00:30:01,969
at college commencement speeches.

897
00:30:01,970 --> 00:30:03,929
I mean like, I take that

898
00:30:03,930 --> 00:30:06,029
seriously as a sign of where

899
00:30:06,030 --> 00:30:07,929
Gen Z is at on the issue

900
00:30:07,930 --> 00:30:09,409
of artificial intelligence.

901
00:30:09,410 --> 00:30:10,679
I mean...

902
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,619
For all the talk these days

903
00:30:12,620 --> 00:30:14,459
about artificial intelligence

904
00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:16,519
being used as a tool for

905
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,979
cheating in school

906
00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:21,200
as a substitute for learning,

907
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,479
for all the talk these day about

908
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,199
artificial intelligence being used

909
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,059
for cheating in school or being used

910
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:29,999
to complete schoolwork without a

911
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,899
lot of learning happening, I don't

912
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:33,199
think there's nearly enough

913
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,189
conversation about a

914
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:37,229
potential wave of negative attitudes

915
00:30:37,230 --> 00:30:39,409
among young voters and

916
00:30:39,410 --> 00:30:40,709
young people generally towards

917
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:41,710
artificial intelligence.

918
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,840
Totally.

919
00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:46,039
So we've talked a lot about a lot of

920
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,359
different issues, right?

921
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,579
And you work with students all the

922
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:49,779
time.

923
00:30:49,780 --> 00:30:51,039
What are you, how are you seeing

924
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,879
these issues affect your students?

925
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,279
And what are you saying to them

926
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,839
about this? Where are their heads

927
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:56,009
at?

928
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:58,089
Yeah, so I've

929
00:30:58,090 --> 00:31:01,169
been teaching since

930
00:31:01,170 --> 00:31:03,189
I was 22.

931
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:05,449
So I've already

932
00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:07,309
had quite a few years in

933
00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:10,029
the classroom, just because it's

934
00:31:10,030 --> 00:31:11,949
kind of the only real job that I've

935
00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:13,710
had. I mean, I shouldn't say that.

936
00:31:15,530 --> 00:31:17,409
It's the only full-time job

937
00:31:17,410 --> 00:31:19,449
that I've ever had is

938
00:31:19,450 --> 00:31:20,910
teaching. Um,

939
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:24,249
I gotta tell you, um,

940
00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:26,009
after the Dobbs decision...

941
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:28,149
I saw students talking about

942
00:31:28,150 --> 00:31:30,089
abortion in

943
00:31:30,090 --> 00:31:32,589
a way and

944
00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:34,749
in an amount that I had never

945
00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:36,389
seen before in my teaching career

946
00:31:36,390 --> 00:31:37,849
and still haven't.

947
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:40,349
I think that speaks to issue

948
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:41,809
salience and what I talked about

949
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:43,549
earlier, the prioritization of

950
00:31:43,550 --> 00:31:45,410
issues, which...

951
00:31:46,690 --> 00:31:48,869
In my view,

952
00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:51,289
in my view as like

953
00:31:51,290 --> 00:31:53,269
a political scientist who

954
00:31:53,270 --> 00:31:55,269
hasn't personally done research

955
00:31:55,270 --> 00:31:56,270
on this topic,

956
00:31:57,390 --> 00:31:59,349
I think issue prioritization

957
00:31:59,350 --> 00:32:01,289
is a compelling explanation

958
00:32:01,290 --> 00:32:03,889
for the divergence of

959
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:05,670
men and women of young age.

960
00:32:07,409 --> 00:32:09,390
I think it's a strong explanation.

961
00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:14,359
And I think that

962
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,219
The reason I think it's a strong

963
00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:18,419
explanation is we have to reconcile

964
00:32:18,420 --> 00:32:19,919
a couple things.

965
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,299
We have to acknowledge

966
00:32:22,300 --> 00:32:24,119
that many Gen Z

967
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,039
women have liberal views

968
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:26,999
on abortion.

969
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,799
Not all of them but lots of them do.

970
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,919
The Dobbs decision moved

971
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,779
that issue right up the list

972
00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:35,879
in priority for all young people

973
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,719
but women in particular.

974
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,079
Men do

975
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,109
not Gen Z men do not

976
00:32:42,110 --> 00:32:44,249
have overwhelmingly conservative

977
00:32:44,250 --> 00:32:45,529
positions on abortion.

978
00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:46,849
They don't overwhelmingly have

979
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:49,489
conservative positions much.

980
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:51,489
So why were they drawn to Donald

981
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:53,249
Trump? We have to look for a

982
00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:55,449
different explanation than Gen

983
00:32:55,450 --> 00:32:57,049
Z men are flocking to the

984
00:32:57,050 --> 00:32:58,569
conservative wing of American

985
00:32:58,570 --> 00:33:00,709
politics. And,

986
00:33:00,710 --> 00:33:02,989
you

987
00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:05,390
know, there's a lot of,

988
00:33:06,750 --> 00:33:08,690
there is, you know,

989
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:13,629
I do think, and

990
00:33:13,630 --> 00:33:15,709
so I think issue prioritization

991
00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:17,769
helps us square that circle

992
00:33:17,770 --> 00:33:20,109
and helps us explain

993
00:33:20,110 --> 00:33:22,009
how Gen Z men were

994
00:33:22,010 --> 00:33:23,849
drawn to Donald Trump even if

995
00:33:23,850 --> 00:33:25,529
they were not flocking to the

996
00:33:25,530 --> 00:33:27,569
conservative end of the political

997
00:33:27,570 --> 00:33:28,729
spectrum.

998
00:33:28,730 --> 00:33:31,189
Yeah, so

999
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:32,049
last question.

1000
00:33:32,050 --> 00:33:33,050
Yeah.

1001
00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:35,559
Suppose I'm a student, I am a

1002
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:36,679
student. But suppose I'm your

1003
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:37,680
student.

1004
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,899
What do you say to me about why I

1005
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:42,259
should get involved? What is so

1006
00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:43,659
important about my vote in this

1007
00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:44,660
moment?

1008
00:33:45,450 --> 00:33:47,010
You know, it's interesting.

1009
00:33:50,070 --> 00:33:51,709
Political science research shows

1010
00:33:51,710 --> 00:33:53,769
that young people are already

1011
00:33:53,770 --> 00:33:56,069
involved, well,

1012
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:57,089
in some ways.

1013
00:33:58,910 --> 00:34:01,329
So young people

1014
00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:03,529
often attract a lot of criticism

1015
00:34:03,530 --> 00:34:05,949
for their low voter turnout rates.

1016
00:34:05,950 --> 00:34:07,209
But that's true for every

1017
00:34:07,210 --> 00:34:08,629
generation.

1018
00:34:08,630 --> 00:34:10,729
So I think that it is

1019
00:34:10,730 --> 00:34:12,888
fair to want Gen

1020
00:34:12,889 --> 00:34:15,049
Z people to vote.

1021
00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:16,329
More?

1022
00:34:16,330 --> 00:34:17,259
But...

1023
00:34:17,260 --> 00:34:19,779
We've been saying that about

1024
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:22,198
lots of generations preceding

1025
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:23,399
Gen Z.

1026
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,738
So I think,

1027
00:34:25,739 --> 00:34:27,399
first of all, I think it's important

1028
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,439
to be optimistic about Gen

1029
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,439
Z, because I do have lots of reasons

1030
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,099
for optimism.

1031
00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:34,599
Yeah, they don't vote at the same

1032
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,419
rates as

1033
00:34:36,420 --> 00:34:38,238
older people do, but that's

1034
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,238
always been true.

1035
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,079
I mean that's always been true as

1036
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,339
long as we've

1037
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:45,119
had mass voting in the United

1038
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,449
States.

1039
00:34:46,450 --> 00:34:48,549
So, you know,

1040
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:50,408
I think part

1041
00:34:50,409 --> 00:34:52,509
of this is being positive

1042
00:34:52,510 --> 00:34:54,509
about Gen Z and

1043
00:34:54,510 --> 00:34:56,488
I do have

1044
00:34:56,489 --> 00:34:57,969
to shout out again Charlie Kirk

1045
00:34:57,970 --> 00:34:59,509
about this.

1046
00:34:59,510 --> 00:35:01,229
I think Charlie Kirk had a

1047
00:35:01,230 --> 00:35:03,469
fundamentally positive view towards

1048
00:35:03,470 --> 00:35:05,289
Gen Z, that they are

1049
00:35:05,290 --> 00:35:07,349
open-minded, that they're

1050
00:35:07,350 --> 00:35:09,369
open to being persuaded and

1051
00:35:09,370 --> 00:35:11,149
that he could persuade them.

1052
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:12,749
Now...

1053
00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:14,929
Again, I have to contrast him

1054
00:35:14,930 --> 00:35:17,389
with a lot of conservatives

1055
00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:19,389
who, it seems to me,

1056
00:35:19,390 --> 00:35:21,189
have had more of a negative view

1057
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:23,049
about Gen Z, viewing them

1058
00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:25,269
as close-minded, viewing them

1059
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:27,369
indoctrinated

1060
00:35:27,370 --> 00:35:29,929
to a liberal perspective.

1061
00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:31,909
Charlie Kirk didn't take that view.

1062
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:33,189
Lots of young conservative

1063
00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:35,269
influencers don't take that view,

1064
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:37,669
so I think one positive

1065
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:39,549
aspect of Gen Z that

1066
00:35:39,550 --> 00:35:41,859
I think is well worth acknowledging

1067
00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:43,699
is that they are open to

1068
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:44,999
strong arguments.

1069
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,119
They are open to being persuaded by

1070
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,079
people who make a compelling

1071
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,199
case for their point of view.

1072
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,079
So I would start there,

1073
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,079
just having a positive attitude

1074
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,799
about Gen Z.

1075
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,759
The kids are all right, as they

1076
00:35:58,760 --> 00:35:59,639
say.

1077
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,639
I think that we should be

1078
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,719
open to the idea that Gen

1079
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:05,579
Z has a lot going for it

1080
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:07,899
politically, not necessarily

1081
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:09,979
in whatever political attitudes

1082
00:36:09,980 --> 00:36:10,989
it might have.

1083
00:36:10,990 --> 00:36:13,389
In whatever election

1084
00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:15,309
is upcoming or whatever

1085
00:36:15,310 --> 00:36:17,509
election we've had before.

1086
00:36:17,510 --> 00:36:19,729
But yeah,

1087
00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:21,309
I'd start there.

1088
00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:23,769
Now, when it comes to voter turnout,

1089
00:36:23,770 --> 00:36:25,909
so like how do I reconcile the

1090
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:28,149
idea that Gen Z cares about

1091
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:30,309
the world but doesn't vote

1092
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:32,269
at as high rates

1093
00:36:32,270 --> 00:36:35,089
as older people do?

1094
00:36:35,090 --> 00:36:37,389
Lots of people in Generation

1095
00:36:37,390 --> 00:36:39,349
Z Do not view

1096
00:36:39,350 --> 00:36:41,449
voting as the main

1097
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:42,339
way.

1098
00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:44,379
Or even a particularly good way

1099
00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:46,259
that they can make a difference in

1100
00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:47,519
society.

1101
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,999
Now many of them do vote and

1102
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,939
I think that we've seen

1103
00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:54,079
high voter turnout overall.

1104
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,299
I think one of the

1105
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:58,239
most positive aspects

1106
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,159
of recent presidential elections

1107
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,379
to me, particularly 2020

1108
00:37:02,380 --> 00:37:04,219
and 2024, is that we

1109
00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:05,519
saw higher than average voter

1110
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,479
turnout and the

1111
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,059
age groups kind of move in parallel

1112
00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:11,139
to one another where Although

1113
00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:13,119
Gen Z isn't to the level

1114
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,959
of boomers, it's not to the level

1115
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,919
of Gen X or Millennials,

1116
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,539
it still gone up.

1117
00:37:18,540 --> 00:37:19,999
So I think, again, that's part of

1118
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,159
being positive about Gen Z.

1119
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:25,880
So I take having a positive mindset.

1120
00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:30,139
And so how

1121
00:37:30,140 --> 00:37:31,959
would I talk to a Gen

1122
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,059
Z, someone in Gen Z?

1123
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,939
I think I would be very open to

1124
00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:39,799
the idea that voting

1125
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,619
is a small

1126
00:37:41,620 --> 00:37:43,539
part of the story in

1127
00:37:43,540 --> 00:37:45,379
American politics.

1128
00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:47,239
Now I like

1129
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:51,019
to say that people

1130
00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:53,639
get into annoying debates about

1131
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,459
the term that best fits

1132
00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:57,039
the American political system.

1133
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,039
Is it a democracy?

1134
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,239
Is it republic?

1135
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:01,179
The term that I most like

1136
00:38:01,180 --> 00:38:02,799
to use is a representative

1137
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,699
democracy, where it's

1138
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:06,719
based on representation at

1139
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:08,939
its core, but it's a democracy

1140
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:11,079
in the sense that it also

1141
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,999
relies on the participation of

1142
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,999
the people, primarily

1143
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,279
or at least to a great extent

1144
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,319
through voting in elections.

1145
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,979
So I think I'm

1146
00:38:21,980 --> 00:38:23,899
open to the idea that Gen

1147
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:25,919
Z is skeptical about

1148
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,549
the power of the vote.

1149
00:38:27,550 --> 00:38:29,529
And isn't sure that the ballot

1150
00:38:29,530 --> 00:38:31,429
box is a

1151
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:34,789
good way to make change in society.

1152
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:35,929
Frankly, I think there's something

1153
00:38:35,930 --> 00:38:37,609
to be said for that argument, and I

1154
00:38:37,610 --> 00:38:38,569
think it ought to be taken

1155
00:38:38,570 --> 00:38:39,869
seriously.

1156
00:38:39,870 --> 00:38:41,929
But I would also go back

1157
00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:43,989
to the idea that representation is

1158
00:38:43,990 --> 00:38:45,389
at the core of the American

1159
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:46,589
political system.

1160
00:38:46,590 --> 00:38:48,609
Whether we like it or not, whether

1161
00:38:48,610 --> 00:38:50,289
we feel good about our

1162
00:38:50,290 --> 00:38:51,889
representatives or not.

1163
00:38:51,890 --> 00:38:53,429
All roads kinda lead back to

1164
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:54,839
representation.

1165
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,499
So I think when we look at American

1166
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:58,659
politics in that respect,

1167
00:38:58,660 --> 00:39:00,299
it does mean that voting is

1168
00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:02,439
critical, even if we

1169
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,439
look at voting as one

1170
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,499
piece of the puzzle in being a

1171
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:08,159
community member.

1172
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,479
The other thing, on that note,

1173
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,139
the other thing that I like to

1174
00:39:12,140 --> 00:39:14,279
emphasize to students is

1175
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,759
that the

1176
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,479
goal is to prepare them to be

1177
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,259
community members.

1178
00:39:20,260 --> 00:39:22,499
And that does involve

1179
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:24,199
voting. But...

1180
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,959
There's lots of things that go

1181
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,779
beyond that in being a community

1182
00:39:27,780 --> 00:39:29,699
member. It means knowing

1183
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:32,019
the people you live around.

1184
00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:34,079
It means making

1185
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,899
strong arguments to

1186
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:37,719
people you know and being open to

1187
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:39,559
their strong arguments.

1188
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,539
It means valuing freedom

1189
00:39:41,540 --> 00:39:42,759
of speech.

1190
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,699
It means valueing an open exchange

1191
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:46,039
of ideas.

1192
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,999
It means understanding the

1193
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,259
Constitution.

1194
00:39:49,260 --> 00:39:50,799
It means understand American

1195
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,639
history. It means

1196
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,069
understanding.

1197
00:39:54,070 --> 00:39:56,089
The variety of ways that change

1198
00:39:56,090 --> 00:39:58,409
happens in society, where

1199
00:39:58,410 --> 00:39:59,889
elected officials are part of that,

1200
00:39:59,890 --> 00:40:01,969
but they're not the entire story in

1201
00:40:01,970 --> 00:40:03,909
how we see change in

1202
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:05,369
the political system and change in

1203
00:40:05,370 --> 00:40:06,589
society.

1204
00:40:06,590 --> 00:40:08,489
So with Gen Z, yes,

1205
00:40:08,490 --> 00:40:10,509
I like to emphasize voting,

1206
00:40:10,510 --> 00:40:12,549
but I also like to emphasis this

1207
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:14,389
broader idea of being

1208
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:16,209
a community member and

1209
00:40:16,210 --> 00:40:18,089
understanding their role as a

1210
00:40:18,090 --> 00:40:19,149
community members.

1211
00:40:19,150 --> 00:40:20,289
Absolutely.

1212
00:40:20,290 --> 00:40:21,550
Absolutely. Any final thoughts?

1213
00:40:22,590 --> 00:40:24,789
I feel like there was, oh,

1214
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:26,629
the only, when I was

1215
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:28,609
talking to, who was I

1216
00:40:28,610 --> 00:40:30,110
talking to about this story?

1217
00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:33,750
God, I can't remember.

1218
00:40:35,010 --> 00:40:36,689
When I was, it was someone I was

1219
00:40:36,690 --> 00:40:39,149
talking to your story.

1220
00:40:39,150 --> 00:40:41,269
And they raised

1221
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:44,369
an idea that I think is really,

1222
00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:47,109
really important where we

1223
00:40:47,110 --> 00:40:48,859
might need to dig.

1224
00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:51,219
Into Gen Z and distinguish

1225
00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:53,059
between the older Gen Z and

1226
00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:54,519
the younger Gen Z.

1227
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,719
Just as in my

1228
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:58,599
world as a millennial, it

1229
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,079
might be worth distinguishing

1230
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,839
between older millennials and

1231
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,279
younger millennials.

1232
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,299
And the reason I do that is

1233
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:07,979
we might wanna isolate when

1234
00:41:07,980 --> 00:41:10,059
in someone's life they

1235
00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:11,879
experience the profound moment of

1236
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,319
change. And of course, with Gen Z,

1237
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,659
I'm talking about the pandemic.

1238
00:41:14,660 --> 00:41:16,299
And I think that that has to be part

1239
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:17,300
of the story.

1240
00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:20,490
Now...

1241
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:23,169
I am hesitant to make

1242
00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:25,189
grand conclusions about

1243
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:27,409
the long lasting effects of

1244
00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:29,269
the pandemic on how people

1245
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:30,769
think about politics and how they

1246
00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:32,769
vote, but I think it's

1247
00:41:32,770 --> 00:41:34,349
gonna be part of the story.

1248
00:41:34,350 --> 00:41:36,289
And I think, it may be worth

1249
00:41:36,290 --> 00:41:38,229
distinguishing between the older Gen

1250
00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:40,809
Z and the younger Gen Z

1251
00:41:40,810 --> 00:41:42,869
because formative years matter

1252
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:44,729
and the pandemic hit

1253
00:41:44,730 --> 00:41:46,909
at somewhat different points

1254
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:49,169
in Gen Z's formative ears.

1255
00:41:49,170 --> 00:41:50,649
And just like for, you know,

1256
00:41:50,650 --> 00:41:52,449
millennials, I mean, this is not a

1257
00:41:52,450 --> 00:41:54,668
great comparison, but

1258
00:41:54,669 --> 00:41:57,169
the financial crisis of

1259
00:41:57,170 --> 00:41:58,969
2007, 2008,

1260
00:42:00,350 --> 00:42:02,309
how, you know,

1261
00:42:02,310 --> 00:42:03,449
older millennials and younger

1262
00:42:03,450 --> 00:42:05,509
millennials might have

1263
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:07,569
been, or I mean not might,

1264
00:42:07,570 --> 00:42:08,649
older millennials and young

1265
00:42:08,650 --> 00:42:10,849
millennials were just at different

1266
00:42:10,850 --> 00:42:13,229
points of their development and

1267
00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:14,829
different points of their passage

1268
00:42:14,830 --> 00:42:16,889
into adulthood when the financial

1269
00:42:16,890 --> 00:42:18,369
crisis hit.

1270
00:42:18,370 --> 00:42:20,269
And I think that that's

1271
00:42:20,270 --> 00:42:21,749
part of the story of the millennial

1272
00:42:21,750 --> 00:42:23,149
vote, just like the pandemic is

1273
00:42:23,150 --> 00:42:25,149
gonna be part of story of the

1274
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:26,489
Gen Z vote.

1275
00:42:26,490 --> 00:42:27,549
I mean, I go back to the Great

1276
00:42:27,550 --> 00:42:28,580
Depression, right?

1277
00:42:29,810 --> 00:42:31,929
Like catastrophes and disasters

1278
00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:33,989
and crises don't

1279
00:42:33,990 --> 00:42:35,329
just matter in the moment.

1280
00:42:35,330 --> 00:42:36,269
They are sticky.

1281
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:38,129
They have long lasting effects on

1282
00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:39,749
how people view the world and how

1283
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:41,469
they view government institutions.

1284
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:44,359
So I'm not ready to make

1285
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,319
a concrete prediction about how

1286
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,759
the pandemic will influence Jay-Z,

1287
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,059
Jay-zee, Gen-ze,

1288
00:42:51,060 --> 00:42:53,099
it might influence

1289
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:54,100
Jay Z.