Alright, you can talk to me, don't
worry about all of
this. Yeah, sure.
So, I guess, let's
go back to the beginning.
You were born in Montello, right?
Yes.
So did you grow up fishing?
Was fishing something passed down to
you?
Yeah, I sure was.
My dad liked to fish and that's how
I ended up in Montello, because he
was from Kenosha.
And his parents and
his grandfather would come up here
fishing as
tourists back in the 1920s
and 30s.
So he met my mom in
Montellos. She would net his fish.
She was 13 and
they ended up eventually
falling in love, getting married,
and then they moved.
He moved to Montello after
World War II, and
so my mom is still there,
same house, on the river,
yeah, she's 96, so
yeah, it's kind of
in my blood.
So how did she end up, did she work
at a resort or help down on the boat
or she just met him and he took her
home? Yeah.
Yeah, well, her dad
owned a big, he was lock tender at
the locks at the dam there and then
she would always be down there
helping him and you know cleaning
his rental boats and
bailing water out of them because
they're wood and they leaked and
that's how, you know, people
shore fished and that was how she
met my dad.
So she would run around net fishing,
not just for him but for other
people too.
So, yeah and I
grew up there helping my grandfather
then, her dad, doing
the same stuff.
Now was walleye the big thing back
then?
Well, walleyes were a big thing, but
it was a big catfish
river, it was the Fox River,
so a lot of catfish,
crappies, some bass,
smallmouth bass especially,
and of course a good number of
walleyEs that would come out of Lake
Puckaway, Lake Winnebago
system.
So growing up for you was fishing
a diversion or was it like
a passion?
Oh, it was a passion.
Yeah, I mean it was every day.
It was 3
a.m.
Before school.
It was all weekend.
It was all summer.
So then you were telling before
that you kind of came into
your early life and trying to find a
job, trying to start a family.
Yeah.
You know, what was
fishing at that point in time?
Was that where you wanted to get
to?
Yeah, you know, after
high school I went to college and
all that kind of stuff and I got
drafted, Vietnam War thing going on
and came back
and I worked at a resort when I came
back. Jobs were hard to find anyway
so I thought well, if I'm going to
work for that same amount of money
I'll work at a resort and
then I became a fishing guide there.
So that helped a lot.
And I really enjoyed that, getting
people on fish and teaching them how
to fish. And
Worked other jobs, did my freelance
writing, started to do that.
The freelance writing was
really the big stepping stone,
because I got to meet people in the
fishing industry,
manufacturers, manufacturers'
representatives, that kind of thing,
and of course, pro-fishermen,
excuse me.
Sorry about that,
and you
know people in the industry,
manufacturers, representatives,
pro-fishermen and so on, and
other writers,
and resort owners.
So just kind of...
Can I get a drink?
Like I said the
other day, I've been fighting a
cold.
Mm-hmm.
They've not coughed all day.
That didn't cost the whole time we
were talking earlier.
No worries.
Yeah.
You can keep a glass and kind of buy
it if you want.
I want a cup.
Yeah, perfect.
Where's my fishing haul of faith?
That'll help.
I hope.
Want me to do that over.
No, we'll just keep going
from there, so you're
kind of manufacturing your own
path in a way.
Yeah, yeah, kind of,
I love freelance writing
and...
I'm fortunate enough to be able to
write for all of the big three
magazines.
What did I say?
Outdoor life field and stream sports
field and then just
little things, not a lot, but
but in those days it paid very
well and and then if
you had photographs as
well, so I was finally making
a decent living and
that but I always wanted to be
not interview in tournament anglers.
I wanted to interview,
you know, I wanted be the angler,
right? And so I started fishing
bass tournaments did well.
I won the state championship.
One year and then
met a guy
who fished the walleye circuit and
he said hey how would you like to
fish the wall eye circuit and
I said I can't afford it and he says
well I got a boat I got this I got
that we'll split the cost and
so I paired up with him
we did really well
won three tournaments on the
very first year,
sponsorships came and bam then it
really took off after that.
Around what time was that?
That was 1988-89.
So you'd picked your juice, and that
was 50, you wasn't immediate,
right?
Oh no, it sure wasn't and
I didn't know if it would ever
happen, I didn't t expect
it to.
There was an opportunity.
I did seize the opportunity
and I set a goal,
a five-year goal, and I thought, if
I don't make these goals in
five years, I'll get out.
Made them in one year.
So then you couldn't get out
because it was too fun.
And it paid well.
How does a professional
walleye fisherman make a living?
Is it mostly from sponsorships,
or is it from the tournament
winnings, or how does that happen?
Yeah, at first it's a
combination.
Usually when you start out, you
don't have sponsorships, or they're
very small, but
it all helps.
So then winnings really
help.
You gain notoriety,
you get speaking engagements.
You have to be willing to do them.
And that means traveling
all over the United States,
all winter long at sport shows.
And and giving
seminars on walleye fishing.
I liked doing that anyway,
so whenever an opportunity
was there, I would take it.
You know, it's interesting because
there again, they paid a lot
for speakers.
Walleye, professional walleye
anglers were rare.
Prior to the mid-80s,
the only walleye pros
were outdoor writers who
fished with good walleye
guides.
So they knew how to do it and they
would come into the shows and talk
about it.
There was no competitive walleye
angling. Well, once that started and
you proved yourself a winner,
then you could get to stage time
to go and talk your winning tactics
and things you do and how you learn
and how to tweak things
and just how to be a better angler.
So, for some of the people that
would show up to this, were they
hoping to be competitive
anglers or were these just your
average fisherman who just wanted to
get a little better and catch the
wall?
Usually,
most of the time it's guys that
they want to be,
they want to win.
You talk to them, they
compete in a lot of stuff.
You know, they race in all of these
cars, they do
all that kind of stuff, dirt bikes.
They're always racing.
But yeah, they're competitors so
that they do it for the competition.
They want to win.
Some want to do it to make
a living.
Some just do it because they enjoy
the competition, but they
maybe own their own business.
I have some other job they can get
away from, self-employed,
whatever.
They're never looking to become a
full-time professional.
They don't want to speak at shows in
the winter and they want to go to
Florida and fish all winter,
get on their yachts.
Which is good, because if everybody
wanted to do that, then water
is down the whole field.
So, uh...
There's always a handful,
and it's always the same guys,
year after year after years,
doing these circuits.
And we would, a handful
of us would speak
and take a regular route,
and then actually we'd have a
different route and a third year,
another route, and then they're
ready for you again
two or three years later.
And then some sports shows would
have you every year.
How much of what percentage
of your life was actual
tournaments versus talking about?
Yeah, well the tournaments
would run from mid-March
to October and
then all the time after that
you're not tournament fishing.
If that's your profession, you've
got to make money in the winter and
of course that's most
of it because March to October,
it's about half a year so you got
your other half is
speaking engagements, period, or
guiding, a lot of guys still guided
in between.
Guided late into fall
and early spring.
I quit guiding three
years into it.
I could just couldn't keep doing it
and mainly because I was fishing
three circuits.
Once while I tournament circuits
proved successful, then
all these other circuits started
popping up.
Bigger money, you know,
getting sponsorships from elsewhere
and longer travel.
You know, you weren't just Midwest
anymore.
But if that was your profession,
that's what you did.
I mean, you just went where the
tournaments were.
And the paybacks were way better.
Sponsors liked it.
So the more you did,
the more your got paid to do it.
That's kind of how it works.
And then the rest of the time of the
year, you're promoting sponsors
during your seminars.
For you, did you get a chance
to come back to Wisconsin
and fish here, or was that
kind of lost to you for a time?
Oh, I was really lost.
The only time I fished in Wisconsin
was when it was a tournament here.
We would come, I would, like
I said, fish in two or three
circuits, one time three.
I did 19 tournaments
that year,
not counting the championships.
So my wife and I, she would travel
with me and help me out, she was
kind of my jack of all trades and
she would take care of all the side
distractions that I'd...
Didn't want to have to do.
I wanted to focus on fishing.
So she would take care of all that.
And uh... So yeah, when I came
home all I did
was get the boat ready for the next
tournament. I didn't even have time
to fish here.
But if the tournament was out on the
bagel, if it was in Green Bay,
Pete and Will Flowage, kind of the
most popular places for walleye
tournaments, yeah, then I fished.
Our documentary is talking about
walleye in Wisconsin as
a significant cultural species,
connected to economy and
tourism and tournaments.
So for you, did walleye
still hold a special place or
once it became like a livelihood
did it kind of shift?
That's a great question.
Walleye, because I grew up fishing
walleyes in the Fox River.
They're like the golden boy of the
fishery, you know. I mean,
everybody, the elusive
wiley walleye, that's all we ever
read about or heard about
and how hard they were to catch.
And they were never hard for
me to catch, I'd never bought
that. I never thought, why
do people keep saying that?
Because it's not true, but
for a lot of people, they can be.
They're a special fish and
yes, when I would come home,
we have a walleye run here in March
up the Fox River and I would always
fish that and there would always be
a smaller run in the fall and
I'd fish that.
And I'd do some walleye fishing on
Big Green Lake because I
guided for walleyes there.
So Lake Puckaway, same way,
I quit fishing in the Wisconsin
River because I just didn't need to
go there because I could catch them
elsewhere.
Fishing all over the U.S.
Made me a better angler here,
but fishing here made
me way better anglers elsewhere.
And I think that's why the Wisconsin
tournament anglers especially
were so good
on the Professional Wildlife Trail.
I mean, we just outshined
everybody, almost everybody,
just because of our
knowledge of fishing on this
Winnebago system.
Tough system.
But once you've got to figure it
out, man, it's so good, you know?
So that's the key.
If you can fish them here, you can
do it anyway.
Yeah, I believe that, and well,
I've proved it, and so have
several other anglers, so yeah.
So you have the ultimate home
field test, a home field advantage.
Absolutely, and you know,
even yet, when I catch a walleye
today, I mean, I
just marvel at that fish.
It's just a very special fish.
And I never took it for
granted.
I mean I could catch, there were
places you could go and catch a
hundred walleyes a day.
You know, those fisheries in North
America are that good.
And even in a half a day sometimes,
they're so plentiful, but you
never got tired of it.
And never got tired of going the
next day and catching some more fish
and catching those walleyes.
And it didn't matter if they were 10
pounds or 10 inches.
You know, it's just, not for me
anyway, for some people maybe, but
not for my. It's just a special
fish.
What's it like to have
a walleye on?
Is it the anticipation for you
of like when they're about to or
setting the hook or is it when you
get them in the boat?
What are the different moments in
that action?
Yeah, I'm
a caster.
So I'm casting baits out,
retrieving.
I mean, I catch, obviously you have
to learn how to catch walleyes in
every method to be
a professional.
You can't just use one thing or you
get a lot of zeros.
So I had to learn these other
methods but my favorite is casting.
It's usually casting a jig,
pitching it out, working along
the bottom when you feel.
It's just something special.
It's like that.
You know right away what it is.
And I know a lot of fish bites,
a small mouth bite like that,
and a large mouth bite, and a pike
bite.
But if you're caught enough
and dead enough, you can tell.
And just feeling that.
It's exciting.
The most exciting thing for
me in fishing is the bite.
It was the same way muskie
fishing.
Bass fishing topwater,
that's the most exciting thing.
Actually, finding and catching a
fish is no big deal.
That's all part of the stick, but
feeling that bite is
so cool.
This is, it sends such a rush,
you know?
And it's, and walleye's way more
subtle than those other fish,
but maybe that's what makes it so
much better.
And because they're in the perch
family, perch bite the same
way, even more subtle.
So I love to fish perch
with jigs the same way, just
to feel that little tap and
yeah, that's
the deal. It's like, what's
the best part about bobber fishing?
When the bobber goes down,
the same thing. And I still get
excited about that when I fish with
bobbers, so.
So I mean, could you have
been as successful as you
have been without still
enjoying every part of it?
No, I don't think so.
I don't think so, I mean, yeah,
it's a job.
I never,
I dunno, every fish I caught,
even if it wasn't a keeper,
you know, even it wasn't
a money fish,
it was just, it just, wow.
It was just that wow factor every
time.
It wasn't like, bah, bah.
You know, I didn't care and
just throw it.
Never do that, just drop them over
the side and let them go because
that fish is special.
I mean, you know, that's 10 years
from now he's that 10 pounder, you
know.
Why why didn't you go into
small mouth is that you know
bass tournaments are what a lot of
people most average non-fishermen
They've heard of big bass
tournaments. You see right in tv.
Oh, yeah But it seems like that's
where the money would be.
So why?
That's totally where the money is
and still is and
But the money started to come
into the wall, I think
in a lady in
a late 1980s and
I Thought well, this isn't bass
And I would and I always
wanted to be a bass guy.
I mean, you know those guys
They had the TV shows
on and a lot of those guys actually
are friends of mine today because
we're all in the industry But...
But they would always tease me
that I was fishing those
walleyes.
And they would say, you're never
going to make any money doing that.
Why don't you get into the bass?
But that's an expensive
deal. I mean, you just,
yeah. And just to get through all
the qualifying and stuff to
do it is brutal.
But there are guys that, they're
still doing it.
These young guys today are just
amazing. They've come in, we've
had some in our own state here that
have done great. You know, fishing
all over the country for bass.
Had the walleye thing
not panned out,
say the money was never there, I
couldn't tell you if I would have
gotten into bass or not.
I may have probably just kept
freelance writing, guiding,
you know doing both because
it was something I
liked and it was easy and it was
here and you know
I didn't have a lot of expenses.
Tournament fishing is expensive.
I mean, even in
the 90s, you're dropping
25 to 35,000
a year.
And that was a lot of money back
then.
If you didn't have the sponsors,
it was coming out of your own
pocket.
You couldn't sustain that if you
weren't good, you know, if you just
showed up and fished.
So you really had to
perform. It's a performance
sport.
Well, you were talking about that
before, about how much of it is
mental.
It is interesting that you've
heard people talk about pro
athletes, and there's a lot more
people that have the same physical
qualifications, but they may not
have the mental makeup.
Well, yeah, you see that all the
time. I mean, if you watch a lot of
sports, you see an athlete,
and you see it in so many guys who
are husband trophy winners, know
that they had the physical skill,
but they didn't have
what we called it.
They didn't' have it.
They just couldn't make it work
with a team.
Now, granted, fishing's not a team
sport.
Well, it can be, but
most of the time it's not.
So it's individual.
It's you against the fish,
you against yourself and
you can't control
anything anybody else is doing.
You just have to focus
on what you're doing.
So the longer you
stay in the game mentally, the
better chance you have.
But you still got to
have the skills.
You just can't say,
well I'm a jig fisherman, I
hate trolling.
Period, that's me, okay, I'm a jake
fisherman, I hate trolling, that was
me in 1988.
By 1995,
I had, look, I gotta learn
how to do this because we're on
more and more lakes where you troll.
I gotta learned how to fish bottom
bouncers and spinner rigs, I got to
learn how to fish slip-bottom rigs
and have the patience to
do it, which is a whole mental game
and I learned
all those things, I won tournaments
doing all those thing.
And had I not been versatile,
I would have maybe won
one or two tournaments,
doing it the way I like.
And that, don't pay the bills.
Yeah,
I mean, if you're independently
wealthy, you don't care, fine, do
your shtick.
But then what are you going to do?
You know, if I'm going to a
sports show and do a
seminar.
And some of the audience says, how
do you work planer boards?
How much line do you set back on
a floating bait, floating wrap
law, for example, with a small lip?
How deep does it go?
You got to answer those questions.
If you want to continue to
excel in the sport, you got to know
this stuff.
And a lot of guys didn't want
to learn it.
They said, I don't like doing that,
so I'm not going to learn.
So you guided for quite a few years
before that.
What's the experience like as a
guide? I guess what's
the, these are different roles of
how people see a guide.
Like I'll take you there and show
you versus I'll give you an
experience.
Yeah,
I had a real love-hate relationship
with guiding because you
book a guide trip.
They want to go.
And they don't care if the wind's
blowing, if it's raining,
snowing, and you don't
want to. You were beat up
all day the day before.
With guiding, you
have an eight-hour day
in the boat with
two clients.
Okay, so you get up.
At 4 a.m.
Get everything ready, get everything
going, get the bait, get the tackle,
meet them at the ramp.
They're all fired up.
Okay, they've had breakfast,
you have, and you've grabbed some
coffee, a quick trip or whatever,
you know, and did a horrible donut
and that's your breakfast.
So they're fired up, they get out
there, they fish. They fish all day.
Fish may not be doing so well.
Cold front, whatever.
So you have to make them
feel like they're Having a good
time, having a good experience.
You have to have a
whole lifetime of stories
to tell, to share with them.
People in common that you might
know, that you can tell stories
about, and it's
all way more than just sitting there
like a bump on a log all day in the
boat and not talking and moving
around the places.
You got to know your lake.
You got know the techniques.
You got be willing to say, look
guys, walleyes aren't going to bite,
and this cold front so bad.
Let's go.
You want to catch something, let's
go fish northerns or something.
Yeah, well it's better than nothing.
Then you go out and you catch 20
northern's and a couple of big giant
ones, they had a great day.
They didn't get their walleyes, but
they still had a good day.
Then there's the no fish days.
I guaranteed fish.
So if I had a no fish day
with clients, I would say,
look, it's guaranteed.
Come back.
We'll do this again.
I said, this is not going to happen
twice. So and
Some would take me up on it, some
wouldn't, you know.
And I always felt bad.
I always feel like I let them down,
you know, as
a guide.
And yeah, it's a hard
job.
And you drop them off,
OK?
Then they got fish.
They want you to help them clean
them. So you help clean the fish.
Then they want to have lunch, supper
with you. They want to buy you
supper.
Then maybe you sit around
and have a few beverages.
And you get home at 10 o'clock at
night. And you got to charge
batteries. You got to get paid for
the next day.
You got get everything all cleaned
up, because you got two new people
the next thing.
I don't know how these guys do
it.
I mean, I did it, and it
was hard. And I know guys that do
it, and they just love it.
Every day, they go, here we go,
let's go get some fish.
I'm like, and they won't even get to
fish.
Like I didn't fish.
I let them fish.
I only fished to show them how to,
you know, how to do it
So then you're not even fishing.
So that, man, it's wicked.
So that's why you did it when you
needed to pay some bills.
Tournament fishing was way more fun,
believe me, although guiding you
meet so many cool people and
you get repeat customers like crazy,
you know.
There's got to be a joy that comes
from giving them an experience when
they have those
Oh, for sure.
My favorite was guiding, you know,
dad and his son or dad and his
daughter, the kids getting the fish.
I mean, those were special.
I tried to do more of that than
adults.
I'm sure you get a lot of guys that
think they know a lot, and they're
there to learn, where's the good
spot? I'll have to pay them next
time, right?
Yeah, one of the toughest is
you get them on good fish, you go
the next day and they're there with
their buddies and their boats, you
can't even get in there fishing with
your clients, yeah.
That happens to them, but it's
part of the deal.
Did you also eat well?
I mean, was that? Oh, heck yeah.
Yeah, I still do.
Yeah, every chance I get.
I fish walleyes a little now.
I don't fish them a lot.
This is just my wife and I,
and one 18
inch walleye is a meal.
I don't need five.
I don't need three.
So just get one for
a meal, and next time she wants a
walleye, go get another one.
It's kind of like the permanent
freezer, right? It's always stock.
Yeah, you get them fresh,
you know.
But what is it about walleye
eating them that's different than
other fish?
Uh, yeah, they're, they are
flaky. I mean, they, they they're
more solid.
Uh, I really think actually
Northern pike are just as good.
A lot of people don't think so, I
do.
I eat both, still do,
it's there.
And there's this whole stigma around
the walleye, the
price of them in a restaurant, for
example. Some people think if
I'm paying 20 bucks for a meal of
walleyes, it must really taste good.
Oh yeah, it's delicious.
And they take it and sit in here.
Well, that's interesting, because
there is a lot of mystique
around walleye in Wisconsin.
What's the history of that?
How did that culture
get built up around this one fish?
Well, I think the
guides perpetrated a lot of
that, mainly because
they can be
tough to catch for the
average fisherman.
They don't act all the time,
they're not as predictable as other
fish for one thing.
They move, they have shorter
feeding periods than a lot fish,
they are very good at So
they catch bait fish
pretty quick.
And then they shut down.
So I think that,
the fact that they're more difficult
to find, to catch,
has created
this whole mystique about walleye
fishing.
And they're always, not always,
but they're often in deep water.
And shallow water fish are always
easier to catch.
And no matter what the species, so
deeper water fish or tougher.
More line, more mistakes, more
snags, more things that that
you have less control over,
that the more line you have out, the
less control you have always.
And so,
yeah, Winnebago being shallow,
Pacoay, Fox River being shallow.
Easy, easy peasy.
So I never looked at them as being
hard to catch
till I got in a tournament trail
and had to fish deep water fish.
I went, wait a minute, I've never
done this, you know?
So you have.
I shouldn't say never, but you have
to learn the whole,
the way they act differently in
different bodies of water too.
It seems like it's the combination
of they're
not easy, they don't jump in the
boat, and then the value of
what they're like on the plate, like
those two things together.
Sure, and they're a
nocturnal species.
So a lot of times they come
up to feed shallow at night and
that's when you catch them like the
last half hour before dark.
So it's like a crazy half
hour fishing and then nothing.
Okay, so a lot
people don't get that opportunity or
early morning.
So there's that, but of course
in professional fishing we didn't
fish at night. We fish in the
daytime. So we had to learn how to
adjust. How do we get these about in
the daytime.
Where are they?
How do we make them bite?
And uh...
I don't know that you could make
them bit.
But you can at
times trigger some fish with
certain tricks and tweaks
and stuff you do with presentation,
which gets us into a whole another
four hour summer on
how to present the bait properly to
the mood of the fish.
So when you look
back at the history of,
like you said, this place was up
north for a lot of.
Yes.
And then there's up north today,
which is Hayward, or River Managua.
How much of that mystique
plays into up north, like
it had to be a travel, a destination
for you?
It's kind of that too.
Yeah, we're in
the same way with Northern Pike, you
know, there's kind of like a, you
what's a Canadian, that whole
Canadian walleye northerners, that's
all they ever talk about up there,
come up to Canada and catch all
these fish. Well, we have these fish
and so, and we
have this fish all the way into
Illinois, so in Michigan,
Minnesota, so why, why do I have
to go there?
But so
yeah, people They want
to catch those fish, they think big
fish, oh, we get the big fish.
The big predator fish is
always part of that because
they do grow big.
People don't eat a lot of, people
never ate a lot bass in Wisconsin.
They did, when I was a
kid, for subsistence.
A lot of the neighbors, they'd eat
bass all the time,
but other people would, well, we
don't need bass. Well, they didn't
have to, they had walleyes.
They had northerns, they had perts,
bluegills, like we
still do today, where they can,
they don't have to eat these other
fish, but there's nothing wrong with
those fish.
You just don't want to eat them in
July.
You know?
But the rest of the year, when the
water's cool or cold, they're fine,
you know?
But because of the abundance of
these good eating fish, so
to speak, but then those same
people eat bullheads and catfish,
and they're no great.
Meal but they're not horrible
either.
You can eat them,
yeah they're a fish you know.
One of the things that we're looking
at is how much attention
the state and like the
DNR or the universities and
their researchers or Glyphwick
or the tribes and they're
all the stocking and the research
and the studies and there's
a lot of attention on one
species.
Yeah.
Is it warranted for that one species
to have so much money sunk
into it because in a lot places the
populations are declining due to
a number of different factors.
There's so much effort being like
bring back the walleye
Mm-hmm.
Is that, is that needed?
Is that worth it?
Or should it just let it, you know,
fall on a decline in an area, then
decline in something else?
If the money's there, if the
resources are there, yeah.
I mean, why not?
We've done it with trout, we did it
with muskies.
I mean why not,
the species you don't have
to really manage.
Like bass, for example, and
bluegills. I mean they kind of take
care of themselves.
And yeah, they can get stunted, they
can overabundant, things
can happen there too, but they
rebound so fast.
They're fast growing, they rebound,
and they can live almost anything,
you know.
But where walleyes need better
water, cleaner water,
generally, the perch the same way.
Perch and walleyed are important
to the angler.
They like to fish them, they like to
keep them, they like eat them.
I think reducing
the limit to three
will really
go a long ways to help that.
And, uh...
And in places where they've done
slot limits in other states and even
in Wisconsin, it's done wonders.
In places that I used to fish where
you could barely catch one over 15
inches, not today with
the slot limits, you can catch lots
of big fish and you have to
release them.
But that's okay.
You don't want to eat those anyway.
But you can still keep some
14, 13,
15 inch walleyes if you want.
I think 13 is a little small.
But because these fish,
at that size, grow pretty fast.
From the time they're finger length
to the time that they reach 15 to 18
inches is three years, depending on
male or female.
So that's pretty good, I mean,
for a fish to be plate ready,
if you want to use that term.
So is it worth it?
Heck yeah, and
with what the tribes
are doing with the stocking,
obviously it's a great PR thing.
But it's also an important
resource thing, because we get
to fish those lakes, too.
And I've fished
quite a bit on
a Lacta flambeau flowage.
I know several tribal people
up there that I've worked with over
the years in PR and other stuff
years ago.
But some of those lakes up there are
just loaded with fish.
And they aren't
even aware, the public's not even
where that you can fish those.
In the summer.
Yeah, they're heavily speared,
but there's a lot of fish there.
Well, yeah, when you look, you know,
people look at the spearing and they
look at how many
fish are taken.
So, oh, they took 35,000 fish.
Well, that's not, it's
a lot because it's,
you got the stats there, but you
don't have the stats of the hook and
line and you don't have the stat,
you know, which is way, way,
way, waaay higher, and so...
I think the state has kind of
figured out at this point,
yeah this three fish limit is
a good idea, it's a good thing.
Once people are used to that,
all they want is a limit,
yeah I got my limit.
It's way easier to catch three than
five, or five
than ten, so if you
lower the limit to three, they still
got their limits, four or
five guys, you get plenty of fish,
that's enough fish.
And that's just walleyes, you can
catch other fish.
To eat too.
It doesn't have to just
be walleyes.
You know Canada's been doing this
forever.
You know you can hardly bring any
fish back from there.
And those lakes are so full of fish
it's crazy.
You gotta be afraid to wash your
hands in there.
You know, get your fingers bit off.
It's just nuts.
And yet people complain about that.
It's just wise use,
and it can work.
It does work.
It's proven that it works.
So talk to me a little bit about the
importance of relationships in
fishing. Obviously you have a
different dynamic with your
wife being an active part of
your career, but I'm sure
you know people who like either
leave the wife at home or maybe the
wife gets a little upset about the
amount of time spent in the boat.
How does that get managed?
Well, like any
career, sometimes it don't, you
know, and people
just go their separate ways,
but tournament fishing,
because of the scheduling,
is tough.
I mean, it's really tough.
A lot of guys would bring their
wives, and my wife loved that
because she got to be friends with
the wives of the fishermen,
and they would do stuff together and
so on.
And a lot of them still do travel
with their husbands.
A few fish with their husband, like
in partner tournaments
and so on, do well,
they do very well.
But it's a strain.
I mean, regardless of what you're
doing, it's just a strain,
but you can have that same strain if
you worked at nine to five.
You know, the guy
comes home from work and then goes
to the bar all night
and plays, shoots pool,
plays dart. I did all this stuff.
Shoot porn.
Do this, and they play baseball all
summer, and that's
the same thing.
You're there, but you're not there.
I mean, you're physically there, but
you are not there because
you're not doing anything with your
spouse.
So yeah, you have that.
And it's something that the two have
to work out like
you would with any other
jobs.
Is there a way to make those I mean
is it because we've heard from some
couples that say oh well the wife
come along read a book or read a
book in the boat yeah yeah you can
still go out in the water yeah
there's other just well no it's his
time and here's my time
Well, I, yeah.
You've got to decide you're not
going to be as selfish as you are
with your
time.
That's hard for a lot of guys and
girls.
It's not just the guys,
but a lot times it
is.
Where I say, okay,
I need to spend some
time here with you, and
I'm going to make the time to do
that.
I wasn't real good at that early
in my career.
It was much better later.
Something I had to learn as well
because it can you yeah, you can go
this way pretty fast if
you're
Your spouse wants attention,
and if you're not giving her
attention, she's
gonna find attention.
So nobody wants that,
neither does she.
So you just gotta not be selfish
and make
time.
Well, it probably helped you that
she was a part of everything, right?
It did, I mean,
you know, you think about that, you
got kids,
who's doing everything with the
kids? She is.
Who's taking them to all their
games? She is, school?
She is? You're fishing.
It don't look good.
And it doesn't look good because
it's not.
But you get,
man can be driven to
the point of not seeing that and
not appreciating that.
And again, you've got to come back
to reality.
And that means you've gotta sit down
when you're home, you gotta be
home. You can't be
in Mille Lacs because that's
your next tournament.
You know, you just got back from
Lake Erie.
And now you're home, but your head's
in the lax because that's where
you're going tomorrow.
And that precious time
together, you gotta block
that out and really spend that
time with her and
that's
enough sometimes.
Sometimes that's not enough,
but it's better than nothing.
And once it all falls into
place and things can happen for you,
like with Sherry.
She gave up she was a real estate
broker at a
time when that that thing was
just exploding and
she gave that up to travel with
me to
help me in
my career that was a big
sacrifice for her for both of
us because her income
was even better than mine at that
time and would have way been
been way better you know
yeah everybody thinks you make
a lot of money tournament fishing
you're on but
Yeah, I mean,
millions of dollars, but
she was
willing to give that up, give up her
career to
be with me.
And she loved it.
I mean we had, we did a
lot, I meant we went to places
together we'd never, ever been able
to afford to go to or take the
time to go too, yeah,
that sponsors paid and
that, you know,
when you get at that level.
It's amazing what
you can do and the people you meet
and stuff
you can see, concerts and
all kinds of crazy things.
Talk to me about the Hall of
Fame, how did that come to be?
To get into the Fishing Hall of Fame
is very simple.
First of all, you have to be
nominated by someone.
No matter who you are or how great
you are, if you're not nominated,
you don't get in.
So you have be nominated someone.
So someone nominated me
30
years ago.
And I was so
busy fishing, I didn't even care.
I mean, if you want to nominate,
great. I don't have time to
deal with that.
So, and
I didn't get in.
And so then,
several years later, another
guy, Joel Coons, a friend
of mine, said, I'm going to nomate
you from Hall of Famous.
And he goes, I don't t have time.
And then he goes.
Well, you don't need to do anything.
I'll do it. OK.
So he nominated me and he put
together a resume and stuff.
I didn't get in, okay,
so but
then I got a little more interested
because now I'm in my 70s and again
I'd be kind of nice and
da-da-da.
So
You get three chances so
We did a re-nomination
Or he did and
it was present and did a better
job. I did a Better job of getting
the information that they wanted
that he needed that he couldn't get
out of me because I was too busy
doing other stuff and
uh... And so you have to
the protocols you have follow
them if you don't follow them even
no matter what your resume says if
you do not follow their specific
protocols you can't get in so
I did that and
uh the vote is always
uh...
You have a committee a ten
member committee it has to be
unanimous so
uh...
Which makes it very, very difficult.
And they unanimously
voted me in
2025.
So yeah, it was
quite the
deal. I mean, it's very honoring.
Really humbling, because the people
that are in that, I mean if you look
at the, what am
I doing in this?
You know, with these guys
over here. But uh...
Yeah, it's a great honor,
and there's a whole
lot of people that aren't in
that way better fishermen than I
ever was.
And they should be in,
but you have to follow the rules
to get in, just like you do with
anything.
So it takes a
lot of due diligence to
get it done the
proper way, to follow proper
channels and do it all correctly.
But obviously it can be done.
Does it feel like a
cherry on top to your your
career or is it?
Oh sure, oh sure,
yeah, I mean, I
never, this
is why I never took it so seriously
the other two times because
I thought, well, if I get it again,
I'd never know
that they had protocols or
rules or things you had to follow
to do this.
I said, well here
I am, this me, you know,
I can catch fish and I've won
tournaments.
Spoke to millions of people and
blah, blah, blah, and so,
okay. You're like, nah.
Today,
Fishing All Famous has
a whole new set
of rules, curricula
you have to follow and so
much of it is media.
What have you done?
What have done to promote fishing
in not only Wisconsin but in
the world? What have ya done?
To teach people to fish
in your career.
If you just tournament fished, if
you just guided,
a lot of people that are in Hall of
Fame are in because
of that, because of those two
things.
But today, that's not
enough.
Today, with all the multi-media
podcasts, do you have a podcast?
Do you have a show, a TV
show? How do you reach people?
Have you worked with state agencies
and restoration projects?
So it's much more deeper now
than it used to be.
And it's understandable.
I mean, when you start out, a guy
starts out, hey, I'm starting the
Hall of Fame.
Well, who are we going to put in?
Well, I don't know, how about Joe?
He's a great fisherman.
Okay.
You know, and
it's true.
I mean some of the really early
inductees in the Hall of Fame were
great guides, You know,
but they couldn't do it.
Fishermen could do today to promote
the sport of angling and
I think that
and
Biologists so more and
more they're leaning toward
people who are much writers But
not just writers writers that are
fishermen writers that promote
writers that work with non-profit
organizations With
other fisheries organizations other
groups. I mean, it's just expanded
so much manufacturers
that have done, contributed
hundreds of thousands of dollars to
the industry, that kind of stuff.
So yeah, it's not, it is
hard. It's really hard to get in.
I'm proof of that.
You just can't get in because
somebody knows you're a great
fisherman anymore.
Yeah, the ten member,
the ten-member voting panel are
very, very tough and
I think that's
a good thing.
Of course I can say that, because I
made it.
But but yeah, I mean
I mean do they give you a call
When that happens, are you going to
let her, or how does that work?