We kind of branched out and said,
let's take other people.
And kind of our focus was we wanted
other families
with kids to use
this area and fall in love with it
so that when it gets threatened
by taking it away,
there's going to be people that are
saying, no, no. That's such a cool
area. So that was in
our mind, too, is to try and create
more opportunities for people to see
what we have here.
You don't have to drive all the way
up to Ontario, although that's lots
of fun, and I love it.
But. We can do a lot of those things
right here, too.
So how much of the
guiding business you developed was
just what you guys wanted to do
versus, you know, there's
hundreds or thousands of guides
that will take you out on their 16
foot giant boat and
take you on a big lake all day.
Yeah, you know, I think, I think
that's probably our biggest thing.
First of all, we knew we had, we,
we really wanted to try and create,
create those moments for people that
just make lifelong memories for
them, especially families.
And you get that, I think when
you're totally immersed in not just
the fishing, but you're in the
wilderness river, you're going
around, you know, you, you've seen
wildlife, you getting the sights,
the smells, all that makes a big
impact. And sometimes it can be
You know you have an experience
that maybe didn't go as planned but
that becomes the experience and that
and you don't and I have I have all
the respect in the world for the
guides that hey meet me at the boat
launch jump in my boat We're gonna
go out in the lake and fish for
eight hours. There's all those eggs,
you know those guys
But we always said if you go
out on the lake, and the fish just
aren't biting that day And it's hard
you're just out in a boat on a lake
with kids That's
challenging, but when you're going
down a river and oh, we got some
fast water coming up here and you
get it, you know, oh, look at the
deer standing in the river, you know
and eagles sitting up there. The
kids get.
The kids get restless, you can stop
somewhere and let them float down
the river for a while.
Yeah, and they catch crayfish, they
can do, you know, you can do things
that they'll remember and that's,
you now, so that's kind of our, our
kind of thing.
When was that?
When did that start?
How about 10 years ago?
Was it that one?
Yeah, yeah, 2014,
2014 was
when we first started.
And another part to this was we
had, you know, we had just kind of
finished doing the, doing the
kids all, you know,
doing all the sports stuff.
We, I coached baseball for lots of
years and football and, uh, in
high school and, and our kids were
in a lot of sports and music.
And it was like, we knew what it was
like to have to put all that stuff
on the calendar first and not take
the time to go.
And do a camping or fishing
or whatever.
And then you had that one weekend
where it's like, hey, wait, there's
nothing happening?
Did you really wanna pack up all
your gear to go up north and get
back late on a Sunday night?
You got a car full of wet
gear and tents and
you got your dog, you know, all that
stuff. Cause we had done that a lot.
We had done and we thought, so
we kind of thought that's a niche,
instead of like families who
have that situation.
Come up north, instead of going to
Noah's Ark, which is a great, you
know, great fun weekend,
but are you really going to remember
that the rest of your life, right?
But come up north.
We'll take you for a day.
We'll haul canoes into a little
lake. You can fish, catch lots of
fish. We'll even cook them for you,
make a campfire, make some s'mores,
hike out at the end of the day and
leave all the stuff with us and you
drive away and you know that's
the stuff.
Kids remember, lights a fire in
kids, you know, a lot of times that
they remember that and they want to
do that again and we've
been fortunate to make some really
great relationships.
That's been a big part of it.
It's been a lot of fun.
We talked about these little girls
that have been coming to us since
they were five, seven,
and nine.
Now they're driving and...
In the little one, the first year,
she couldn't really, we were afraid
to let her cast in the boat.
She might hook somebody.
There's Barbie, Barbie fishing pool.
Yeah.
Yeah, John got this big bunch of
rubber frogs and he said, well,
Janie, pick out one of these.
And so she's looking and she picks
out this red sparkly one, which up
until then, I don't think we ever
use.
And he puts it on and digs
the hook right into the rubber.
So there's no way she's going to
hurt anybody. And she's casting a
dozen of musky coming.
Grab it right at both sides.
She's screaming.
She's got this fish on.
Grab it right at the boat side and she's got this fish on it. It wasn't
letting go and I mean I knew
it was a matter of time before it
would just break the line because it
was the frog was gone and uh
and she just you know she never she
talks about that. They talk about
it.
They talk about it every time they come back
and we tell the Janey story and then
she didn't want to fish anymore.
She put her pole down and she said,
Janey, why aren't you fishing?
I don't want that big muskie
to get my pole.
Yeah, and we just
had one this year, I had a
young man who was a junior
in high school, a very
quiet kid, and him and his dad get
a lot of father, son, and mother,
daughters, but very quiet,
and he just,
we had a fun day on the river.
He caught three muskies.
We had just, we caught, it was just,
and, he was just gradually
throughout the day just opening up,
opening up.
They got back home, we lived down by
O'Connor Walk, and they got back His
dad called me and it's like, John.
I don't know what happened, but he's
like a different kid.
Like he's totally just starting
to plan. He maybe wants to go to
Stevens Point. He wants to do
resources and everything.
And then that was, he was like, so
that was thanks a lot for the trip.
Okay, that was it.
Well, just this past summer, I got a
call from him, from his dad.
And he's, like, John, Ben's out of
getting out of the Marine Corps.
He's put four years in.
It's the first thing he says, I want
to go on a fishing trip up north.
You know, call John, and I was like,
that was cool. When he came up,
we had just an absolute blast.
You know, that kind of stuff makes
it just, you know just
so worth it.
And I'm sure that
different experience being offered
doesn't take long for people to, you
know, word of mouth becomes
yourself. That's pretty much all.
That's pretty much all it is, is
word of mouth, and you
know, we're not looking to, you know
we're retired, you now, so we're
looking to make a living at this,
in fact most of it just covers
Yeah, if we travel somewhere and
hire a guy who can
picture that, our gear, right?
That's what it is, yeah.
But yeah, we could guide every
day if we wanted to.
But then we wouldn't be able to go
fishing hours. Lots of calls, lots
of calls.
So it doesn't take long for people
to realize that we take everybody.
We have fun
with elderly
people too who used to do it 20
years ago, and now you get them in a
canoe, give them a comfortable seat,
and they're like, hey, I think we can
do this.
We had that one gal that was like 80
and she just scrambled up in front
of the canoony.
Yeah and she we just
back on the water. Yeah so that's
it's really rewarding and when
you're I think when you'r an
educator that's what your career
is all those teaching
moments Brenda's master has her
master naturalist
certification so
you know there's a lot so you know
we do a lot of foraging too along
the way and there's always things
that you know so.
One of the, obviously this story is
focused on Walleye, but it's also
the people that surround that.
So, musky is a big thing, but
Walleye is another big species,
right? Like, are people...
Everybody wants to catch walleyes
because, I mean, they're the most
finest table fare we have
in Wisconsin, right?
They're just amazing to eat.
And so a lot of people want to catch
walleyesh and we found a
little niche for that.
Yeah.
Walleyes, I think it's funny.
I said they're a very, I don't know
what the way to say, like an
intentional fish. Like people want
to catch walleyes and you don't
just, you just don't stumble across
them like in lake.
You got to, you might stumble across
other fish when you're fishing for
walleye but you don't just all of a
sudden stumble into a bunch of
walleys. You know, it's usually kind
of the focus.
But I get, we get a lot of calls
from people. They say, hey, we're
coming up.
You know maybe from Chicago or
wherever. We're coming for a week.
We want to get a bunch walleyes in
the freezers like Certain times
a year, you can do that
in Wisconsin and the guys
that guide strictly walleyes up here
and they're good and those guys
don't, it's not, this
isn't northern Minnesota or even you
know or Canada, this is, there's
great walleye fishing at times in
certain areas but it's you know
Green Bay is obviously really good,
Schwabgen Bay is good and we do fish
there too.
But you kind of have to know what
you're doing, or have a guide
that knows what they're doing
because it's a harder
fish to catch.
But the idea of just coming up and
loading up on walleyes in Northern
Wisconsin, it's
challenging for a speech coming up
in July and August for their one
week vacation.
Right. So we- People have that
mentality. They do.
And their expectation is...
Northern Wisconsin, walleye
heavy. They do.
They do. And it is, it is it is
challenging. Again, you know, you
especially like there's
a there's a really good lake by us
that it's a very, very good
walleye lake, but from about early
July through August, it's
solid weeds, and shallow
and solid weeds.
And there's lots of walleyes and big
walleyess.
But most people like how do you I
mean, how do you even begin to fish
them here? Like, you know?
And it's frustrating because people
aren't used to fishing in the thick
weeds for walleyesh.
But they're in there and you can get
them, but it's
totally a learning curve.
So talk to me a little bit about
the river experience.
Because one thing that a lot of
people probably don't realize is
walleye are native to rivers.
Lakes are where you think of them,
but that's actually not their native
habitat.
So how do you stumble into knowing
where the walleyes are in these
little backwards rivers?
Well, that's kind of funny, because
we actually at first didn't
really ever talk at them or catch
them much. No, I mean...
I grew up fishing the rivers around
Eau Claire for walleyes, but it was
mainly in the spring, you know,
spring walleye fishing in the
rivers, you know it was good.
And that's kind of the cool thing
about when you're fishing these
small rivers, right?
Like we said, deep water
holds most of the fish and deep
water on these rivers is literally
three or four feet.
So I mean, you're talking about a
deep little hole that might get up
to your chest if you walked in it,
but everything else is this deep,
there's fish in there and it's gonna
have muskies in it, and there's
gonna be smallmouth in it.
And there's gonna be walleyes in it.
And it's funny, in the summer, in
spring, we
can go and catch, hit those holes,
and there are rivers high, and the
walley, the water temps good, and
there is a lot of feed in the water,
and it's spring, so they're feeding,
and we can catch
a bunch. I mean, you can never see
another boat the entire day,
and you're catching some really nice
ones, too.
Then you get into summer and all
these other fish are really actively
feeding. You know, smallmouth in
August, they're eating everything.
So those walleyes are in the same
holes a lot of times.
So it's like you make that cast and
oh, small mouth.
Oh, here's a small one.
And they're there.
And all of a sudden at maybe four or
five fish in, I was like, Oh, it's a
walleye, you know, and it's the nice
17 inch walleye.
Perfect eater, you know?
And it's, like, but they're, they
just don't. They aren't super
aggressive. And so, and then you're
also, you don't get them on the
bite windows. If they want to eat
morning, you know, early and late,
well, if you're floating a river and
there's a really good wall, I hope
you got a three hour float out.
How are you going to hit that right
before dark? If you're not trying to
float out in the dark or right
at first light, how are you gonna
get down to it in the darker?
So sometimes we have to camp, you
know, we'll make camp, so we hit it
in the evening, hit it in the
morning, you know.
But you can usually pick one or two
up in the afternoons, you know, and
we have dark water here too, so that
helps. These rivers are pretty dark.
So, you know you find a little cloud
cover and dark and deeper
hole and you can usually find them,
so.
Growing up, you said you fished
for walleye, and you were over by
Green Bay, so was walleye a big
thing for you as well?
No, it's interesting because back
when I was young, which is a long
time ago, the walleye
fishing wasn't a thing on the bay.
You know, I'm back where the Fox
River was almost a dead river when
it was polluted really bad in
the 60s.
So our main fish that
we fished for was perch, which a
sister to a walleye, right?
So I grew up perch fishing a lot,
which there's a lot of similarities
when you're but we'd go out
and catch 200 perch and that was
just a normal thing.
But not walleyes, that was not a
thing back then.
So when you started coming up here,
is that really the first time that
you got into walleye?
Oh yeah, and it was like,
I didn't realize how much
there was to it, you know, I didn't
know that it was kind of this cult
following of people that want to
catch walleyes, and that was like
the night we got up.
Lighted bobbers.
Yeah, I'd never fished with a
lighted bobber, and he took me up
north, and like not
far an hour from here, and
we went out at midnight at the boat
landing and launched the boat, and
we got these lights on our bobbers,
and I'm watching the light go down
slow with his bobber.
I was just fascinated by it because
I had never done anything like that
and I just thought it was the
coolest thing ever and then we got
to eat them which was really
awesome.
So for you, was walleye just
part of what you were looking for,
or was like walleye the species?
Certain times of the year, I'd
focus on walleyes on the river,
especially. Or when you were ice
fishing. Or ice fishing, I did a
lot. I always said, I probably
got through college because
of walleyers.
I said I would drive my
car. I went to Stout in Menominee,
one of the lakes where I lived, and
I'd drive my cars out there at
night. I'd set up my three lighted
tip-ups, and I'd turn on,
leave the car on, turn on my dome,
I'd do all my reading, oh, got a
flag, go out there, catch one.
I could do three or four hours of
that. You're not going to find me
three, four hours in a library doing
that, but I could do that sitting in
a car by myself, you know,
and yeah, so I had some good
friends. We were kind of walleye, we
chased walleyes through the ice,
and you know that was pretty, a good
focus there and and and
You know, I think too now with
all the electronics that are
available to people for the lakes,
you know, you can find them
when you used to not really be
able to find them, right?
I mean, you can't find them
suspended in 40 feet of water, you
know. How did you used to find those
fish, right, you didn't really, most
people didn't.
But in the rivers, they
really had, it really hasn't
changed. I mean walleye fishing is
very much what it was like when I
was a kid and when I growing up and.
Very simple, you know, and get put a
bait in front of them.
And when you're talking about a hole
the size of this table and
they're, you know, bait it, they're
going to eat it most likely.
And that's something we really
appreciate is the
lack of electronics
in what we do.
The simplicity, like even with that
one wall we have mounted,
I caught it. I was just floating in
a canoe and dragging a bait behind
me and in the middle
of nowhere and it hit and I
caught and there's just something,
oh it's special when you
do it that way.
It's very, it's very primitive
is not the right word, I suppose,
but it's just very it's very
simple. You know, there's no,
you just read the water and they
got to be somewhere in the water.
This time of year when it gets low,
you know, really concentrates
and just getting to those places is
very difficult.
And during the year there's certain
things like right now, you know,
wherever the wood is in the water,
they're in that shadow down there in
the shallow water they want to hide,
you know. You just kind of know
those things. Get out of the sun,
yeah.
We've got a few places where there's
big logs that if you can get
it in there without getting hung up,
you're usually almost always going
to catch one.
Is the, I mean obviously bass
are known for fighting, they're a
little different, a musky will take
you a little bit.
What's it like to catch a walleye?
What's that experience like?
The ones on the river are very
different than the ones in the lake.
I mean, they just fight like crazy.
They don't want to leave that hole.
You know, they do not want to come
out of there. And when you're
catching, we get some walleyes in
the mid to upper 20 inch range.
We got two 30 inches on
the river in the last couple of
years, but you get those five pound
fish and they don't wanna come out
of that hole and we're using
light gear.
You know like we usually,
it's pretty
intense.
Yeah, yeah it's fun.
And you're in a small boat, you
know, everything is kind of
like a circus when you get a big
fish on a small board.
It's just. Kind of chaotic, but
that's what people remember, you
know, and yeah, so they fight,
they fight.
Yeah, they definitely fight and
that's just some of the fun of it,
right?
When you think of people that are
out in Winnebago just trolling, just
going back and forth for six hours,
and the fish is on, and they just
leave them in the net, is there any
comparison between the two?
Well, we do.
Well, we do, we have
a bigger boat and we'll go
up to Schwammagen Bay and we
will do some trolling.
I enjoy some of that.
He likes trolling a lot. I'm not so
much. It doesn't compare
to fishing them in the canoe
or on the rivers, but I enjoy
it.
A lot of
times I kind of call that a little
bit of a meat hunt.
I mean, you're going to go out and
you're gonna reel in a 16, 17 incher
and it's going to go in, you know,
or even a 20 incher.
It's not a lot of It's fun
because you're catching a walleye,
kind of in the middle of a
big body of water, and that's kind
of it.
Figuring them out is fun.
That's where we try and get most of
our fish to eat, is fishing that
way, because on the river, these are
small rivers, we try to be pretty
careful about keeping anything
because, you know, we just
don't know, you know what, you don't
want to affect the population, so
every now and then if something's
hooked bad or...
We'll keep a couple, we'll
have clients that are like,
can we ever, we're gonna catch a
walleye, we're like, yeah, you can
keep one, But if we catch four or
five, they keep one.
One or two, enough for a meal for
them, and that's good, you know,
and they're good with that.
How did you get involved with
Women Fitch?
Wisconsin women fish.
Yeah, a lot of bar.
Don't you get involved with
everything at a bar?
Sorry to say
Wisconsin No,
we were we were at a Bar for
the muskie school
so my friend Amanda owns a
deer foot down at on
the Chippewa flowage and We
were down there and I was working
at that school and barb carry the
president of Wisconsin Wisconsin
women. Fish was there and we
were We were talking and she started
talking about going ice fishing up
on Red Lake and they stay in sleeper
shacks.
And all these things went off my
head. Sleeper shack?
You get to fish while you're
sleeping? It just sounded like
the coolest thing ever.
And I said that to her and she's
like, you gotta come with
us.
And all of a sudden I was
riding up to Red Lake with a lady I
didn't know to sleep in a shack with
people I didn't know and fish wall
eyes and it was 28 below.
And that was my introduction to the
club, and it was awesome.
The people are great, and I had a
blast.
That's been a really nice, that's
been a really niche for us too.
A lot of women that want to come up
here, learn to muskie fish or,
you know, again, we float rivers and
we fish with light gear.
You know, we don't throw big heavy
stuff.
They really, they feel really
comfortable having Brenda take them.
And sometimes they just want a woman
to take them and switch them in too.
Yeah, and then sometimes
after they come for a year then of
course their husband back home is
like hey I want to so then I'll take
the husband she takes it and it
actually isn't working out really
good We do that quite a bit.
She'll take mother daughter.
I'll think father son and
it ends up, you know being really
good
The more I got involved with
Wisconsin Women's Fish, the more I
started guiding too.
In the beginning I was more like
just a support system and
now I take a lot of people by
myself.
And I even get requested sometimes
over my husband and I'll say,
if you really want to catch a fish,
go with him if you want to have a
lot fun.
Well, especially in the fall,
October, she guides a
lot in October.
We have dogs and I bird
hunt a lot and I kind of
back off. The first week or two
I have some trips booked, but other
than that, then I
kind of back out, but she goes
pretty hard all through the whole
month.
Well, I mean, having
covered this around the state, this
is a pretty male-dominated and
masculine sphere, so what
is it like to let women know, hey,
there's a comfortable space for you
to learn how to do this?
Yeah, that's what
the club that I belong to is all
about really is giving people
a chance to do it without feeling
that pressure.
And we have a lot of women too who
used to have fish with their husband
and their husband maybe passed away
or they got divorced and they're
like, I still want to do this, how
do I do it on my own?
And so we're a big support system,
we have like a private Facebook
page where you can ask questions and
only the people in the club can see
it so you don't have to be afraid
someone's gonna jump in and start
saying stupid stuff.
And making you feel bad.
So that's cool.
And for me, when I take someone,
I have a kind of a different
approach than John.
He's very, he teaches a lot about
fishing and gives a lot of
direction.
And I'll often have people
that are a little bit more
trepidatious about what we're doing.
And I will say, you know, we're
gonna go fishing and we're going to
have some fun.
And if you want guidance
or you want me to tell you things,
please. Do so.
If you'd rather have me be quiet and
just paddle you along and you want
to just cast a little bit.
And so I try and approach it that
way so it's not so
intense and a lot of people
appreciate that.
And by the end they're like, should
I cast at that spot?
How about that spot, you know?
And they're just all into it.
But it's more of a slow...
Imagine that as you
give women space, they're
very comfortable to take that
space It's right to get it letting
them feel like they can take some of
that space exact
Exactly, and I'm a pretty
non-threatening kind of person and
then and sometimes people look at me
and they're like You're gonna roll
the river for the next eight hours.
And I'm like, yeah, I
am
Well, and it's funny because
you either light that
fire in someone who's never done it
or you
relight the fire in someone who used
to do it when they were a kid and
they just don't really know why they
got away from it and they did And
then I'll say like, oh my gosh, this
is. Well, I have a.
Well, I have a gal who's coming back
this year. Last year she came to
Muskie School from California.
Her kids encouraged her to come back
because she used to come up here and
do stuff and she read about our
Muskie school and she came.
And I had her out on the river and I
gave her a rod and she's like, she
made like three casts.
She's like I am so, I can't do
this. And I was like, well, you know
what? Let's just set you up with a
sucker because in the fall we put
suckers on a sucker rig with a
bobber and whatever.
And I said, you can just hold the
rod. So, you make it
work for.
For her comfort zone, I wasn't gonna
keep pounding on her on how to cast.
It's like, no, let's just do this.
And as she's sitting there and she's
just holding this rod and all of a
sudden this big muskie comes
screaming in, grabs a sucker,
runs into my little cargo
canoe, splashes her with water,
she screams bloody murder, pretty
soon we got that fish flying all
around. We ended up catching it,
it's a 40 inch muskie and she
gets a picture with it and it was
just such a
cool thing.
And even her family was so
happy to hear all about it.
And now she's coming back this year.
So we're gonna hopefully do it
again.
But, you know, those.
Set a high bar.
That's a little nerve-racking.
I get a little nervous about all of
it. I feel a lot of responsibility
to help people have a good
time and meet their goals or
make their dreams come true, and if
I don't, then that's hard for
me personally.
And kind of getting back to what you
asked before, people's expectations.
One of the things that is hard
too is
because we float these
rivers where, these are
small, you go down the middle of it,
you can cast to both banks.
I mean, this is not like, you can't
get anything much more than a canoe
on a lot of these stretches.
And trying to understand that,
well, what is a trophy
or what is success
in that river?
You know, because social media, you
mentioned, you know, Green Bay, you
see all these pictures of people,
these giant walleyes, you know,
multiple string and laying on the
bottom of the boat, you know, and
it's like, and it's, like, well,
that's not really what we're going
to do. And we have some really good
days where we catch a lot of fish.
But with walleyed, if you go
through, you catch some small mouth,
maybe a musky and on
your light gear and then pick up a
couple of nice walleyess for
the frying pan.
That's pretty.
That's pretty cool.
I think about that in context.
It's always important.
So some people are really focused
on numbers, numbers, numbers, and
after the end of the day, they're
like, that was really fun.
Like, because it was just simple.
With my big walleye, I mean to
me that was more of a trophy than
I've caught bigger ones when I was
out trolling with you on the big
water, but that
one was more special just because of
how it was caught.
You know to me, you know, it was
just...
We had one, I had two guys,
they're really dire, muskie
fishermen, they fish everywhere.
And they won a trip that we had
donated to a local organization.
And one guy was from, they were both
from Chicago actually.
And these guys knew more about
muskie fishing than I did, I mean
they were really good.
So I picked their brains.
It's one thing, we don't have any
egos, so we're always, literally,
we're don't, we're all always
asking, when we get people in a
bullet bat, we know, no sir,
we're alway picking their brains
But, but they were like, what should
we bring for gear?
And what are we going to use?
And I told him, I said, here's the
thing guys. We use medium,
medium, medium heavy bait casting
gear. If you want to catch muskies.
I said we don't, don't bring any
musky rods. No big ones, no big
baits.
I said it's fish in the river.
Eat the same stuff as the bass.
I said so we'll catch bass along the
way. But I said this is what these
muskys eat.
Well, we get to in this, we're in
the super small river.
I mean, it's where it starts.
It widens up, but it's small.
And he cast Hiranaya.
He had on a spinner bait and he
cast a spinnerbait down in this
little hole and also he's like, he's
like, oh there's one.
He's like oh man it's good and it
was one of these giant walleyes.
It was a 30-incher
dark gold water.
It's like dark gold.
He was literally like this
is one of the coolest fish I've ever
caught. He just so
appreciative of it and so you know
and it was probably a 20-year-old
fish. I mean it was just awesome
awesome.
Experience for him and you know we
released it and let it go and
uh you know that he wouldn't have
got that with a you know a 40-inch
musky because for him that's a nice
musky in the river and for
him, that would have been like oh
yeah but that was pretty cool.
So, one of the other things I want
to explore a little bit is
relationships and couples
in fishing.
We've ran into some people that they
can't really have a relationship
because they're almost married to
the boat. And then there's other
people where, you know, maybe the
spouse will come along and they'll
read and they will find a way to be
together.
And then, there's people like you
where obviously your passion
dovetails together.
But how important is
finding a way balance a
relationship with fishing?
Well, we-
We've come full circle, haven't we?
Well, that's really just just
a quick example that a lot of
my friends, when I tell them
I got a new reel or I bought some,
they'll say, did you tell your wife
if they're my friends?
They know they're joking, right?
But like clients like, oh, I buy I
had to hide that. I'm like, I'm,
like, Oh, man, I said between her
and I, we got to rein each other in
because it's like we just, you know,
we support each other all the time.
But yeah, we don't have to hide what
we buy when it comes to fishing.
And it fishing together is
a special treat because a lot of
times we're taking other people
fishing so when we get to go
fishing we usually run away
up to Canada to our canoe country
and like we did that this
spring and we just had an
amazing time because we we could
just fish for what we wanted to fish
when we wanted fish, where
we wanted to fish, it's
just so natural for us.
And I think too, when we first
met, I had, I'd been fishing
tournaments for bass.
Um, and I was a pretty competitive
guy. We're both athletes and stuff.
So we were pretty competitive and
I was pretty competitive about
fishing. I was pretty intense and
she was kind of like lighten up.
Like, what's the, you know, geez,
you know, you whatever.
And I knew though that like,
because of how competitive she can
be that over time.
She has become a lot more
like, no, we gotta go
work that section because I know
that fish is there and I know, so
she's- The more I've learned, the
more-
The more I've learned, the more input I've
had, which is sometimes not always
easy. And I just row, I row around
and she just works it.
I remember the first time we
competed fishing, though, for perch
on the bay.
I've completely locked that out
of my mind.
I had floating jig
head, slip bobber, I had all
these rigs and we're out in
30 feet of water.
She had a paint stick with
line wrapped on it and she dropped
it straight down with a spring on
the bottom and two hooks coming off.
And I was like, got one.
She had nine in the boat before I
even had a bite.
I'm just like, I like this
is just way too embarrassing.
So there's lots of different ways to
fish, for sure.
Yeah, we work
it out.
And even like you know he likes to
troll a lot and it's not my
favorite but I go trolling with
him and I've learned more about it
and so I can participate more
which makes it more interesting than
it used to be I used to sit there
like if you go out with a charter
and you just sit in the boat and
wait and wait wait for a broad to go
off now at least I'm what bait
should we put on and how many feet
back and you know so it gives
a lot more to think about.
What would you recommend to
couples that marriage
therapy type thing of like well
somewhat one of the partners is
passionate and
Well, kind of like we do with our
clients a lot of times,
ask what kind of fishing
do you really like to do?
Find out what each person really
loves to do and find that
happy medium because same thing.
I mean, I have clients that they
love to fish slow with jigs.
They don't really want to cast
topwater and other people, that's
all they want to do.
And it's like you if you can tailor
your experience, if somebody
doesn't like to sit and look at a
bobber and then you make them sit
and look at the bobber the whole
day, they hate that.
Right. So that's one thing.
A lot of times, the guys that
want to go up and troll on
Schwalming and Bay, John just takes
them. And I don't go along on
that.
And if I have girls that really want
to sit and jig for crappies and
bluegills, you know, I'll do that.
Or like with my club, I go on some
outings that, you know,
that I really enjoy.
And then the other piece is don't
torch them, right?
Once you have one of these days,
and even if it's a good day, don't
overdo it. When it's time to be
done, be done.
And just then go get a good
dinner or something, or something.
Just make it, because man,
that's how, you just
can really burn people out in a
hurry. That extra hour or two hours
in the boat or on the ice or
whatever, it just.
I've burned you out on that a little
bit on ice fishing.
I have a hard time getting off the
ice.
No, she doesn't ever want to stop.
So that might cause us more.
As a guy
fishing, I can't believe I could
complain about my wife not
wanting to come off the water.
But sometimes it's like, and we
really do have to go,
but no, it's good.
I'm very competitive with myself.
I'm not competitive so much with
other people, but if I have a goal
and we do that in our club, you
know, you want to catch a fish a
certain size, it's like, I
really want to make that happen and
I work really hard at it.
I've kind of transitioned a little
bit too. I don't really care if I
fish a whole lot now.
I love rowing people.
I love taking people down
the river and just I don't
fish that much really
anymore.
And it's funny, because every now
and then I'll say to him, I'll
said, but I really want to, because
I said, I didn't have all those
years of fishing like you did.
Because most of the time, I
mean, I had three kids and I taught
full time. I didn't go fishing when
I was young.
And so now it's like.
But I still did a little fishing.
Yeah.
Yeah, you did a little bit more than
me. I was inside making dinner,
and you were standing out in the bay
casting.
But, and I don't have any problem
with that, but now it's like, I
wanna have my time, and I wanna,
you know, there's a lot of times
when I wanna fish too.
Sometimes it's even hard for me when
I'm guiding, it's, like, I'm
guided and I'm like, I wanna just
cast over there, cause I know
there's fish, and they can't make
that cast, and I just wanna see if
there's the fish there.
So I still have all that going on in
my mind. I don't think you have that
so much anymore.
Well, that's a funny thing,
too, up here. There's a number of
guides, especially musky guides,
that they fish right along with
their clients.
And I always ask a lot of the
clients that I have that they travel
all over the world and hire guides,
you know, and I'll say, how many
times do you come into where the
guide is fishing right alongside
you? They're like, not many.
They're, like, that a little
different up here, it's like there's
some number of guide that they'll
fish right along, you know.
And to me.
I've had it happen a number
of times where I literally
I want to make a
cast to see if this reel this
line is on right or I want see if
there's action on this bait and I'll
make a cast like this and I
was like oh I feel so
bad like I hook a fish and you know
they haven't been catching them and
it's like oh you know but
no we typically don't fish.
No, I will with friends,
you know, I'll have some friends and
they'll be like, No, you got to fish
with us.
And then twist my arm.
Well, you guys can fish with us too,
we'll be happy to have you.
Yeah, we'll see what we can do.
So in terms of
like the culture of
Walleye, I mean, the
history is there, that legacy, but
is that still as ingrained or is
that kind of a generational
difference, like the older people's
view of Wallaye versus maybe some
younger people's?
That's a really good question,
because again, up here, we're in a
little bit of a throwback area right
here. We kind of, I think a lot of
people still really like, you know,
we have multiple generations of
people that come up here to these
old resorts, these old lakes,
they fish the same spots that they
did 40, 50 years ago,
and the walleye still has a,
has kind of this mystique.
I mean, that's the first thing you
ask people about when they're
fishing, you know.
You know, tends to come up
right away is, you know you get any
walleyes? I mean, that's pretty, you
know, and obviously the muskie has a
whole different following, but
usually no, in conversations
that people talk about muskies, you
know, it's just walleyers are still,
there aren't many people up here
that talk about like, oh no, I'm
not interested in walleying.
Most people, they want to go catch
a few walleyess.
When you think of the amount of
research that's being done by,
I mean, UW-Stevens Point and
the tribes and the DNR and
all the other agencies, Glyph Lake.
And a lot of it focused on walleye.
Is that worth it from a
statewide perspective?
What is the bigger, broader value
to all that effort being put
into walleye?
That one-
Well, I think, I mean, we're
big proponents of science and
all the data and research that shows
that a lot of lakes are struggling,
a lot populations are, and that
would be really,
really a shame.
It would be.
It would be a huge loss just for the
Northwoods culture because the
walleye is sort of...
King of the fishing.
And even the Chippewa Flowage, you
know, this legendary body of water.
I mean, it's a phenomenal fishery,
no walleye fishing in the winter.
You can't catch them through the
ice. And it's all people
talk about, like, why can't we,
why does it, you know, so as soon as
you took it away, you hear
from the people like, that's
ridiculous, but it also needs to
be protected because, you know,
we said it a million times, but with
the equipment today, especially
through the eyes, the equipment,
everything from keeping people warm
and transportation.
And shelters, and then obviously the
electronics, the gear,
you can really, really...
Decimate a population.
Yeah, I mean, you could do a number
of...
We're very careful about little
lakes that we go to, especially with
ice fishing, keeping them sort of
under wraps, and there's only
certain people we will take to them
that we know are responsible
fishermen that are going to put them
back, because you
could just really wipe it out in no
time.
And then you add social media to the
mix, right?
And, you know, it ends up being
a potential, you know, crappies.
We talked about crappie a little bit
earlier. I mean, crappy, I mean
that has to stand people's radars
because in the winter, towards the
end of the winter
all those crappys congregate in
that, you now, in a deeper water.
And some lakes only have one deep
spot and pretty soon there's a
shack, there's another shack, and
pretty soon they're hammering them
day after day, you
So education is super important and
I think having the
science behind it just makes
it all work together then.
It's interesting that we've,
I've talked to a number of people
that are very focused on
like putting walleye back in the
lake, whether they're walleyes for
tomorrow in the little mobile
hatcheries, or they're
guides, or their constant fishermen,
a lot of those people are talking
about catch and release being their
primary thing, like it's the thrill
of the catch, it's not the harvest,
you know they'll do a fish fry, but
that's not their priority.
Yeah, so who who
are is like if they're a different
breed of person that is just about
the harvest because
it seems like there's almost like a
bifurcation among walleye fishermen
of those that are just the pursuit
and then there's it's the table.
Yeah, there's a hunting factor
to walleyes, like figuring
out how to get them and how to get
them in the boat.
It takes a lot, and so you
take pride in figuring that out and
finding them.
Finding them. Let's save that
question. Sorry, can I cut for one
second?
What's going on?
You gonna be able to edit that out?
I can barely hear him.
Okay.
If they were inside or not.
No, no, no.
Can we can we stop for just
a second? Okay?
Okay, hold on, you're tethered.
I know
I'm so sorry.