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You don't key

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The latest hearing challenging the

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Enbridge Line 5 oil and

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gas pipeline in northern Wisconsin

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unfolded late this week.

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The Bad River Band of Lake Superior

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Chippewa and environmental groups

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want state permits already

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approved to be reversed and

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to halt any pipeline construction.

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The Circuit Court judge in the case

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isn't expected to rule until

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the end of this month at the

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earliest. Even though line 5

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construction is being rerouted

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around the reservation.

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The band worries about damage to

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upstream and Lake Superior

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water.

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For more on this, we turn to

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Bad River Band chairwoman Elizabeth

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Arbuckle.

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And thanks very much for being here.

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Thanks for having me.

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So fundamentally, I've had people

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ask why the

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concerns if the pipeline has been

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re-rooted to skirt reservation

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lands.

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I'm sorry, can you repeat that?

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I've had people ask,

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why are there concerns

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if the pipeline

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has been rerouted

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to skirt reservation lands?

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Got you.

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Well, there's been lots

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of reasons to be worried or

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concerned and one of them

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is when they do the construction,

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they are going to be

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stirring up mercury

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deposits from acid

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rain from decades past and

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those have settled.

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So when they come through to do

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that, that's going to stir up

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these deposits, which are

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then going to go.

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Directly into our waterways, you

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know, they are just hugging our

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reservation. It's not like they went

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miles and miles away.

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It's literally a stone's

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throw from from our land

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and reservation boundaries.

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And that is going to stir up

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these mercury deposits that have

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been in our wetlands and

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go into our water and go in the Lake

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Superior.

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You know, we've already got we

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already have mercury deposit

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warnings and can only one

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walleye a week or a month, depending

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on on your age

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and gender.

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And that's...

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That's problematic.

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So if we get more mercury, that's

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gonna affect our fishing

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industry.

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It's certainly affecting our Ojibwe

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culture because like walleye, for

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example, is a major part of our

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culture. So that's what we

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worry about. The mercury upsets,

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they also worry about the blasting

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they're going to do in the reroute,

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which is in the Pinokee Mountains

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just off the reservation.

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That's another thing that we

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don't know what we don't know.

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They say, oh, it's safe, it' fine.

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And then they'll show you a blast of

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a different...

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But, you know, that's not apples

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to apples.

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Those are different rocks.

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It's a different situation.

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You know, what studies have they

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done on these

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mountains? And what can

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we expect to be released?

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We're very worried about heavy

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metals coming into our waterways,

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right? The other one is our

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treaty rights.

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And this is key.

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Because the way they want to do the

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reroute, and so we'll say this

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is the reservation and they're gonna

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go like that with this

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being Lake Superior.

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So on all three sides.

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They're going to

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surround us and

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encircle us, and

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that's problematic because they're

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still in our ceded territory, right?

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We still have rights to hunt,

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fish, and gather in this land,

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and we're not going to be able to

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cross into our reservation without

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asking their permission.

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That's not what we signed

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up for. That's the spirit of the

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law. That's not been the

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interpretations and

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the understanding of our treaty

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rights.

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So cutting that off,

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cutting us off from our

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land, from our own homeland,

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from accessing our

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treaty rights that we're allowed

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to use, which have

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been upheld, that's problematic.

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And that's something we're all

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worried about. So those are just a

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few examples of things we're

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concerned about.

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What is your response to the DNR

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and Enbridge saying that

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environmental issues have been

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exhaustively researched and

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addressed?

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Uh, I say, I don't

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think so, right?

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I mean, everyone, like I said,

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everyone's been ignoring this

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mercury problem and the problem

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of the heavy metals that are going

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to be released by the land.

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So I don't think they have been

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exhaustively researched, you

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know, I, you know for the amount of

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research WDNR does.

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They, like I said, they have fish

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regulations.

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We can't buy little thermometers

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with mercury in them anymore because

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they know how hazardous this is.

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The state of Wisconsin knows how

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hazardous it is.

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And yet there seems to be

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no concern about

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the sleeping mercury that we

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have in the wetlands area on

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and near our reservation.

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Well, that we had throughout

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this area that they're going to

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disturb.

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This is quite the protracted

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challenge to Line 5.

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There are also intertwining federal

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cases.

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Why the protacted fight?

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What do you mean, why the protracted

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fight? What's at stake?

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What's a stake?

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For the Bad River Band.

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Right. I mean, I don't think anybody

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wants a protracted fight, but

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it's the outcome that's

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important, not the battle.

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So we have to protect our homeland.

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We have to protect Lake Superior.

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We to protect

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our treaty rights and those

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that, you know, that our fellow

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other Ojibwe bands in Northern

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Wisconsin exercise

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and hold with us as well.

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So it's, it's

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I mean.

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We're definitely tired of it,

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because

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it's ripped apart our community,

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Enbridge has done a massive PR

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campaign just outside

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the reservation and within our

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reservation,

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and that's all

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calculated to win their PR

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war.

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So they've turned tribal

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members against each other, which is

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really unfortunate.

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So nobody wants that, nobody

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enjoys the fight.

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Nobody enjoys the

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rift.

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But in the end,

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we have to hold the line.

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This is our homeland, this is what

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we've got.

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We signed a treaty back in 1854

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that kept Bad River at

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Bad River.

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Our ancestors meant that.

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They meant for that to never be

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for sale and that would always be

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used and it would always protected.

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And so this isn't me.

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This was a charge made

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over

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100 years ago.

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And it was designed so that

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it will always stay 100 years from

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now.

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So unfortunately it

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is exhausting.

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It is expensive.

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It can be hurtful,

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you know, and painful.

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You know, we're not doing this to be

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difficult. We're doing this because

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this is our home.

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We have to stand up with

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each other and for our people.

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You know and it's nice that we

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had a case yesterday in Bayfield

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County and so that

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was important because we had,

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are you gonna get to that later?

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You're gonna edit this interview,

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please tell me yes, right?

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We may, but go ahead,

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what did you experience in that

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courtroom?

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So the court case we

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had in Bayfield County yesterday

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was we had asked for

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a stay, right?

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We had asked them to throw

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out the permits and for

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Enbridge to not be able to

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proceed.

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Enbridge still does not have

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access to all of

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this land, so I don't know why

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they're starting. There's still four

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permits they don't have.

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There's still lots of questions

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about how they're going to get under

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and around the 100 and.

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Or at least the 70 plus

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waterways, right?

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We have over 180 waterways they're

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going to be crossing.

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So they haven't given

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us these answers yet and

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we're still waiting to

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hear that. So while we were there,

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I reached out to tribal leaders

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across the state

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and all the Chippewa nations

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in Northern Minnesota

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and Michigan

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and the outpouring

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of love and support was enormous.

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Almost all the tribal leaders from

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the tribes in Wisconsin showed up.

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Lots of letters were sent.

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We stand together,

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right? We stand united.

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We've gotten a lot of support from

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our local neighbors and communities,

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our non-tribal friends and neighbors

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in local communities and towns,

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environmental groups, local and

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statewide and nationwide.

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This is something we all care about,

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right? This is preserving our

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environment and protecting our

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environments.

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You've got tribal sovereignty

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issues, you've got environment

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issues.

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There's a lot of angles and

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parts of this, which people

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identify with and

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care about.

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Do you feel as though you will

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prevail?

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Yes, I have to believe we

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will prevail.

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In the end, we have to.

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The stakes are too high, right?

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I can't imagine

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not.

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We need to preserve Wisconsin,

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Northern Wisconsin, Lake Superior,

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and we're on the front lines for

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that. And so we're willing to

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do that.

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It's, like I said, it's even bigger

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than our reservation, right.

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It's even big than that because

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those waterways lead right to Lake

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Superior.

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So it's really important we

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all think,

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and study, and look, and see

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what they're saying, and

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work toward stopping

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it.

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Chairwoman Elizabeth Arbuckle, we

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leave it there. Thank you so much

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for your time.

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Thank you.

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Appreciate you having me.

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00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:41,210
Well,

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yes ma'am.

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Well, they have other reroute

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options, right?

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They elected to not use them.

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There are other options that go

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further away from

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their reservation,

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outside of the mountains, kind of

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skirting around the mountains on the

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southern end there.

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So they have a

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plan C and D

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that they can look at.

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Probably, but it's

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very expensive for us to think,

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nobody's gonna be able to eat

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walleye anymore,

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or we could risk our treaty

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rights. Those are priceless.

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Those are invaluable.

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So that to me is

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absolutely worth fighting for and

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something that we should think about

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as being priceless

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Thank you.

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You were great.

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00:11:59,810 --> 00:12:00,979
Nice to speak with you.

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I was told it was going to not be

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live and you were going to be able

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to edit it.

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00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:06,999
Well, we are certainly going

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to have to edit it at

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the top when I,

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you couldn't hear my question or

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whatever, so we will, yeah, there'll

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be some edits. It was great.