And trying to survey this.
We are, one of the things we
do is technology is extremely
important to us.
It helps us solve our crime.
We do have technology
throughout our city in certain areas
more than others because
some of them are where
things aren't happening as much.
But we have technology and we use it
well. Even from the body worn
cameras to our automated lats and
plate readers to our sound
detection.
We're not in the AI business at this
point in our lives, but technology,
whether it's the
cell phone subpoenas that
we get for our downloads, whether
its the ballistic forensics
that we get, technology has
certainly helped us improve our
solvent of crime.
Mr. Chairman, may I follow up?
Yes, please go ahead.
And then could you also speak
to
open records requests and the
need to read that information
and how much time your department
spends.
Well, since our, we
work real close with the city
attorney on ours, we have
just a small staff that
does our open records request, but
they've, ever since body-worn
camera was introduced,
our request has significantly
gone up for open records.
So there's a demand for them.
The city attorney,
which is separate from what works
within the city, is
just someone that's just dedicated
to that. So it's that's
all they do is open records
So, so your department isn't
engaged in redacted letters?
Well, we are.
We're the redacting part of it, but
we go through, we work with the city
to know what can be released, what
should be redacted, what not.
And I guess what I'm asking is,
have you seen any trend
in staff resources relative to
that aspect?
It's growing. Is it declining?
He used to be one person that just
didn't know we have three people
doing our open records
request.
Next we are representing NAPCS.
Absolutely.
I know you, you know,
the chair before you left,
uplifted, you know,
potentially having this big weigh-in
on the timeline of
arbitration.
In the process of
how you guys have not navigated your
contract since you've been in
Racine,
there, yes or no, there has been
increases in your pay.
In my pay?
Yes, sir.
Because I'm a non-represented
employee.
In your department's
face? Yes, in the right...
Yes, and the representative, there
has been increased, there
was some agreement that they came
upon.
But the one that's holding them back
right now is the retiree help.
Got you.
And that's an act of negotiation and
then that.
It's an act of negotiation, right,
and it's getting close to the end.
And, you
know,
both sides have been working in good
faith to try and get to
a conclusion.
That they've been working at.
Got you,
and you know,
take your department aside and
your offices aside.
When the state weighs in
on
your negotiation process.
Is it fair to
departments, whether that
legislation goes in your favor or
not, is it fair for departments and
local municipalities in that
negotiation? Or does that
place a finger on the scale for one
side or the other?
Well, they're negotiations, so it's
going to have to be, it's a give and
take situation now when it comes to
wages, when it come to benefits, but
there's a lot of other
articles that go into play when it's
comes to negotiations,
it all depends, you know,
we're funded by taxpayers,
so while there's delays, there could
be a number of reasons why there are
delays in, not getting.
Absolutely.
And then just a follow-up question.
You originally worked
in MPD, right?
That's correct.
How long were you there?
Left and I was there for
almost 30 years.
You're there longer than I
probably live, and I respect that
tremendously.
So you've seen, you know,
several negotiations and contracts.
So in 2011,
I know that in the previous
negotiations with
MTA, The
City of Milwaukee placed a standard
where there was a,
you know, they came to a conclusion
that, hey, there will be an
increase in bumping pay for
officers if there's
a residency requirement.
And then the state came in and
passed legislation to remove that
residency requirement, but still
kept that bumping pay, right?
That negotiation directly
benefited officers more than it
benefited the city, my right in
that negotiation.
Well, yeah, well, for me,
I can just speak for myself that I
it was a condition by employment.
I first signed up back in
To live it be a resident of the
city.
I still have own a house in the city
of Milwaukee. My daughter lives
there
Feel that it should be a condition
of an employment.
That's just my personal opinion on
it I know that the legislature
changed all that I think you have to
live 15 miles from the
city of Milwaukee proper
It does
I'm still a believer, that's why I
say I have a, my main residence
is in City of Racine.
The taxpayers are paying me.
I don't have to live there, I just
choose to live here because I feel
that taxpayers are paying me
and I think it's good for all the
leaders that are, that work
for the city. That's just my
opinion.
I think you're available to them.
They see that you support the city.
I support the City's efforts,
obviously.
I want to be visible out
there. I wanna be available to
the people that I'm here seven per
ten. And it's just my
choice and I know they changed that
some time ago and
it got appealed a few times or
appealed at least once and
it ended up being that they are
allowed to live in that's for any
city I believe in the state of
Wisconsin.
They've changed the residency or
they have within certain mileage
restrictions.
Thank you for living in the
community, sir,
and again thank you for everything.
I appreciate it.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and
thank you, Chief, as with the
others, I appreciate your service
and your appearance here today.
You had in your testimony referenced
the budget cuts,
previous, most local
budget cuts. Specifically, you were
talking about, you also represented,
mentioned Harvard hours.
So, where are these cuts
at?
The budget cuts occurred prior to
my arrival.
The ARPA came in
during my arrival,
which certainly helped out and
stabilized the budgets for
the city and that included in
public safety.
We were able to gain some positions.
We're authorized 196.
I'm not quite there yet,
but it also helped
out in the
in hiring by
offering a hiring bonus.
But prior to my arrival, those
budget cuts had, we were down, we're
less than 185 I
believe for authorized strength
because of budget cuts and
the budget freeze, you couldn't do
anything else with it.
You had to stay within that budget.
Since I've gotten there, things have
changed.
I would say in my favor,
or the favor of the city of
Racine, where they increased
the authorized strength
at 196 and it used to be at
209 at one time.
Went down 20 positions.
This is all prior to me.
But the officers are still there and
these guys are they're now veterans
and they're near in retirement Often
talk about how it used to be and
what that some of the challenges
are, but obviously
Would you say then you're
not experiencing a budget cut
situation at this point in time more
of a stabilization?
We're at stabilization right now
through 2026.
2027 is certainly going to have an
impact.
So some of those loss of
ARPA has been replaced or
backfilled.
Yeah, I think the upper funds are
due run out here.
I believe at the end of 2026
but your local
electeds can't
recognize that or you
expect some relief through
the city project.
Somehow through the city budget or
some revenue sharing from the state
which we did receive this
past year.
Okay, and then I'll just throw
out, if you're willing to answer
on the court system,
where the pain points are for
you and what
you might find.
Sure, yeah.
Well, we have a criminal
justice system.
We as law enforcers, we're going to
make our arrests, we can do, because
we're law enforcer's of
law. Then there's the next process,
you know, and obviously it's through
the district attorneys, do we have
enough to charge someone or not?
Hopefully, if the case does go
through, if we don't have enough
charge on a criminal case, then
let's find out why.
Say they do get, go to court, they
get convicted, then we have the
judicial system.
The judicial system then says...
Well, they have varying ways,
even though we have sentencing
laws,
we also have folks
that I believe feel
that sentences aren't
tough enough for certain,
like a wrong robbery or somebody
that killed
someone while they were drunk
driving.
Then we have this bail, people are
out on bail.
That's something that's always been
talked about.
I can provide an example here.
Somebody who's a violent kid gets
out on bail on a $5,000
signature bond, goes out and picks
up a gun and shoots somebody else.
I mean, these are the things that we
deal with law enforcement.
I understand society.
We live in a free world.
And I understand things that
are why
people do what they do in every
community, but as
an enforcer of the law, I like to
see people who commit crimes be
accountable for the crimes they
committed, and they should do their
time if you get convicted.
It's more kind of a hard-nosed type
of guy, I'll tell you what, just the
way I was raised.
If I did something bad, I
can assure you, my parents certainly
disciplined me, and I try
not to do it again,
but you learn from
discipline, I believe, and it's
a. I can speak for some
of us in this room here that we
wouldn't be doing this job if we
didn't learn.
And probably most of us here, we
learned from your discipline.
You should be held accountable
for the actions that you take.
Unfortunately, people can take all
kinds of actions nowadays, and
they're not held accountable, and
I'd like to see that changed.
Thank you, Chief, for this moment.
Thank you. Okay. Fourth right.
Representative Zinke.
I'll let go of my colleague's
remarks. Thanks for being here, sir.
So you heard earlier, I have a
couple of brothers that are in law
enforcement in various capacities.
I have the military background
myself with the United States Air
Force.
And for a while, I did recruiting
for them.
So I'm really enjoying this
conversation because a lot of what
I'm hearing are a lot the same
challenges that the military
has been experiencing as
time has gone on.
I just want to refer to a couple of
your stats that you gave that I find
concerning.
So you're saying RPE
received around 300 applicants per
cycle, previously yes, down to
between 21 and 25,
approximately 100.
So that's a 66%
reduction in the applicant pool.
The gentleman that was up here
before you, Sheriff, sorry.
Mentioned he didn't want to lack
standards and I agree with that
One thing that I saw in the military
is the army
and the Navy ran us netcom,
which is where everybody has to go
for the insurance processing and
every applicant is filled out a DD
form 20 or seven dash two
The Department of Defense moved that
from 75 questions
medical questions to a hundred
and sixty four Okay,
so seemingly you're making it even
more difficult on an already small
pool.
This happened in an environment
where over 80 percent
of kids that graduate high school
aren't even eligible to join the
military for various reasons.
Some of which you outlined in here,
physical fitness tests,
psychological stuff, past medical
history, whatever, right?
So very similar
obstacles that we're dealing with
here. So I say all that
to ask the question, What
would be your number one
recommendation for
how to increase the applicant pool?
Because a 66% reduction is
not helping you out.
Well, I think a lot of it, like I
said, attributed to some of the
national narrative that was going
down, the lack of public
structure and police and the fact
that they haven't.
You still have to have the law
enforcement Santa Barbara has you
have to meet that those With
the law force in Santa Barbara by
the state
You have to do the fiscal
Fiscal agility you have the pass
you have that so 70% you
have three phases of the academy You
have the past each phase that is all
required. Yes, go through a field
training program
tip
We change our standards for
the college
credits just to
attract people because some people
never had their
college credits.
Going through the Canary alone, you
got 22 credits, so you're a third
of the way there.
So I think that
the reduction in there
of having the
from the 300 to 100
had a lot to do with
what was going on around this
country.
It really did, I mean, with its
social movements and protests,
Ferguson, you name it.
Back, George Floyd,
even before that,
started affecting how people looked
at police, how the public looked at
the police, or looked at policing as
a whole.
The high-profile incidents of use
as a force, that they looked
at, oh, police are bad.
I don't know if it's
cyclical, like it was in the 60s,
because the 60's also had them.
At that time, too, and
then if you start kind of gaining
more confidence in police, I'm
hoping that this will pass as well,
and we'll get more applicants,
a large number of applicants like it
once was.
It is still a noble profession.
You can get a good career out of
this. Yeah, we still work 24 hours a
day, and won't miss our house, but
there are special people that do
this job and do it right,
and for the most part, they do it
all right. I'm not saying we're not
without sin.
But we do it right.
I just want to add a comment as
well. Thank you for flying that
red, white, and blue for your
service.
Because it's important to fly that
flag.
Thanks, sir. Talks about our
freedoms.
Thank you.
Okay, thank you.
Oh, yes, Representative Goodwin.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It's good to see you again.
Chief, I have
a question for you.
Kind of following up on
Representative Franklin.
And as far as to recruitment
and some of the staffing shortages,
I know some other departments, like
around the country,
have toyed with the idea of,
or have actually did this.
They've created two tiers of
police officers.
So you have the
federal police officer, within you
have a police community support
officer whose powers are
limited, but they have
a lot of responsibilities that are
focused more on patrol and public
assurance.
What do you think of the idea of
that to address the story?
We do have a community services
officer, they're non-sworn officers,
they may seem to deal with our
parking and our
animals that
are running loose and things like
that.
I think looking
at ideas like, anytime you should
look at ideas, how can we
help the police and help the public
keep people safe?
Do you need officers running traffic
control? Could that be done by, like
in Chicago, they'll have civilians
doing traffic control that are sworn
to do that traffic control.
I think it's a good avenue to look
at but we
do have our CSOs and we have our
police cadet to help with the menial
jobs that are in our police
department. I don't want to say
menial, they're important jobs,
but I mean I certainly don't wanna
be trying to
wrestle a dog, trying to take a dog
in a chain because I try to get fit
a few times.
But they
They're important jobs, and it's
just a way that helps relief to the
taxpayers, and then having what once
was a traditional role for
a police officer, is now done
through disability and less pay,
but with benefits and things of that
nature.
And I also have one more
question for you as well.
In reference, one
myth maybe you could help us clear
up today.
I've probably been preaching this
probably for the last five years.
When it comes to the policing
budget, I think that a lot
of people do not understand
the way the budget actually works.
A lot of them think that officer,
or let's say a detective, he comes
in, he's coming in from nine to
five.
And that's your allocation for
his budget.
But then I realized that officer has
to actually do an investigation.
That may take 12 hours,
that may take 16 hours, that may
even take 24 hours.
He may not go home for three days,
and all of this is going into the
budget, but a lot of people simply
think he's just limited to like
eight hours, and that's the end of
it. Can you kind of speak to that?
Yeah.
Yeah, that is,
all right, we're not like eight for
eight sometimes, no we're eight,
eight, 24 hours later.
But that's what it that's where
isn't recent and so, you know, we
have to have minimum savings You
want to make sure you have public
safety.
We have to sometimes extend we
have events We have parades we have
people have to work these events.
You gotta get again public safety
You got a you get a homicide.
Well, you start at 8
o'clock But that homicide came in at
2 o'clock if that doesn't mean you
get up at 4 o'Clock
But those I mean and budgets
we do have budget line-ups for
overtime Obviously, our budgets are
very limited to what we have,
generally in most cities,
the public safety budget is the
highest in any city, I think we get
about 52% of our budget.
We do it for our equipment, we have
our capital improvement, but we're
based on levies and things of all
that that are set by the state.
But overtime is sometimes, and you
force people, but when you start
forcing people, you get the burnout,
you start, but it's not usually
an eight for eight, not even my job
is an eight-for-eight, or any, I'm
sure any of these leaders are eight-
for-eight.
Or even you guys.
But you only get paid sometimes
right out.
I think that it's important for
a lot of people who
talk about the scrutinized
departments and
create these narratives that
mess with the morale, that they
don't understand how it works.
If somebody gets murdered, that
officer may be there for a while and
that's increasing the budget, but
you can't just say, hey, you're 85,
you gotta go home, forget all this
murder.
You've got a budget to follow here.
This is a crime that needs to be...
We'll get the body in the morning.
None of that stuff.
It's a 24-hour operation.
365 days a week.
Never stops.
I think we're one of a few city
entities that works 24 hours a
day. I know the fire department
does, but we're out
there all day.
Thank you for your service.
Okay, Representative Madison,
go ahead. Absolutely.
I know we're talking about
policing. I know Greg Kanell
will talk about continuum of
the criminal legal system and for
home given on the judicial piece.
You uplifted talking about cash
bail and talking specifically about
an example of a
young person who committed
a violent crime and then got
out on a $2,000
bail, right?
But do you believe that,
that cash bail?
Should exist as opposed
to determining if
someone is a true risk
to a community and deciding,
you know, if they're a risk,
they stay, and if they are not a
risk they are,
you
they're not held, right?
Understanding that, you know,
anybody has the potential of having
the resources to pay that bill.
And you know foregoing their
accountability and potentially
creating harm for folks.
The anybody who's a risk to
community based on actions that
they've done and they've caught and
they're now facing a bail
that should be reconsidered.
It's two days should be held or not
and or say a
bail. That's someone who's
especially violent.
And that's when you come up with
what we call work ups, where you
have all the history of that
individual, all that person,
and that should be considered when
it comes to setting bail.
Not based on a matrix of some sort,
or this is the first time here, or
whatever, but it should be
a consideration of
the type of act that was allegedly
done.
It should be consider.
And the history that individual.
Okay, thank you.
Well, Chief, I want to thank you
very much.
One thing, just a follow up on
Representative Goodwin's comments.
I've often thought police
departments might
want to consider
part-time officers.
That that might
fit into certain
individuals.
Predicaments that they find
themselves in and so on
so anyway just throwing that
out we've got two more
speakers and
the next is Chief
Pat Mitchell from the
city of West Dallas
Thank you.
Don't feel you have to take
as long as Alex.
I just told them there's
no oxygen.
Let's fall on a sleepover.
Good afternoon.
My name is Patrick Mitchell.
I'm the police chief in
the city west Dallas, which is in
Milwaukee County.
I am also an alumni of
the Milwaukee Police Department.
I will tell the committee we're
going to talk about recruitment and
retention.
You don't have a retention issue
with me.
Forty years ago to the day I was
sworn in as a police aide for
the Milwaukee police department
and I have continuously served
since then.
But things have
changed.
I heard some talk about processes
in other cities
and or counties.
My police recruitment in 1985,
750 people entered
the process.
Testing in those days is in
an auditorium at
Madison High School, a large public
high school in Milwaukee.
It's filled to capacity.
They hired 15
people off of that list.
You fast forward to today.
Look at a city like West Dallas.
We are doing okay in staffing right
now.
We are authorized 126
sworn members.
We currently sit
at 124.
When we do a recruitment,
we will get between 20 and 30
people that will apply.
We will have between three
and six positions
typically that we're looking to
fill.
But the number 30 is
a false number because
some of the people did not meet the
minimum requirements to
even apply.
We're in the middle of a process
right now where we're
down to four applicants that
tonight will have their interview in
front of the final interview
in the West Falls Police and Fire
Commission and we started
with 30.
So we are down to four.
We anticipate we
currently have two openings, we will
have at least three more retirements
through the end of the year.
So we know right now we will not get
to full staffing.
We have, in
January, we'll have been the chief
in West Ellis for 10 years.
And we have been at full
staffing for one day in
the 10 years.
And literally on the day we achieved
full staffing, a
probationary member notified
us that he was going to resign.
And we went right back to one
down.
And agency, you'll listen to
Chief Ramirez talk.
Even though I tell you that we're
too short.
It does not mean that we have 124
members of our department out
assisting the public.
We have about 19 people that are on
probation right now,
and a large amount of those
19 are either currently
in the academy or they're
in the field training officer
process.
So they are not independently
doing anything for the
betterment of the citizens
of West Dallas.
Some of the things that I would
like to thank the legislature for,
some of what I will talk about is
funding, which has been a theme with
some of the other members of the
panel. Members of
the legislature in a bipartisan
manner. Thank you. Have
helped local units of government
including law enforcement over
the last several years.
Certainly the increase in shared
revenue was a
great boost for local
units.
It helped get
us back towards the path of
normal but
I will tell you if you
listen to how local units have
government create their budgets.
It is a very
challenging annual process
in spite of the increases
in shared revenue.
Public safety, I believe Chief
Romero stated that.
We do take up the lion's share
of every local unit
of government's budget.
In the city of West Dallas,
in the past five or six
years, the city
has cut approximately
40 positions.
About three years ago
approximately 10 of those 40
positions were
human beings occupying a
job late in the year
where the city of west dallas went
to them and said we can no
longer afford your position
we're going to offer you a
severance package and we're going
to eliminate your position
so the the
balloon has been stretched
Our city, I'm fortunate,
they still value public safety.
It's always the highest funding
priority that they have.
But we have gotten to a point that
to fund public safety,
the Department of Public Works has
less people to.
Clean streets, maintain
streets, whatever they might
do.
So I'm hopeful that
there will still be an appetite
to continue to
look at how local government is
funded and explore
is there flexibility and what
that looks like.
The legislature has
increased training funds for
police officers.
That helped.
You talk about retention
of officers.
They want to work for agencies
that can afford to
send them to training and
buy them the equipment that they
need to do their jobs.
Technology is a piece of my paper,
which I know you all have a
copy of.
Technology, I told you, today
is my 40th anniversary.
So I
was a new police officer in 1988.
Got into a squad car in the city
of Milwaukee, it had a radio.
It had a shotgun, and it
had lights and siren, that is it.
So,
the police department, if it was
staffed at X number
of positions in 1988,
between 1988 and
now, technology has
grown. The cost is incredibly
expensive, but it makes
police officers more efficient and
more effective.
Ultimately, it helps us
serve our community.
There's technology that we pay for
now. It did not
exist when I started
my law enforcement career,
and it's not done.
In the current biannual budget,
thank you again for bipartisan
support.
Governor Evers signed
a budget that allocates $4
million in data sharing,
predominantly in the Milwaukee area.
You will see companies,
I'm going to enter
into an agreement with a company
that it is mind
blowing the information sharing
that is possible.
That comes at a
cost that we are
struggling to pay our people a
competitive wage and then we're
balancing it against technology.
So a part of my comments are
please continue
to look at what local units
of government need to be
successful.
The final element that
I'll talk about has been done
briefly today.
What you say matters.
What the leaders of local
units of government say,
matters.
And when you say it, is
critically important.
I'll give you a little bit about my
background.
In the city of Milwaukee, I
came up through the investigative
ranks.
I was a detective,
then a detective lieutenant,
and I finally retired as the
assistant chief in charge of
all investigative resources.
After I left the
city of Milwaukee, I went to work
for the Wisconsin Department
of Justice Division of
Criminal Investigation.
At the same time that the state
passed a law that
all officer-involved death would be
investigated by an outside entity,
DCI became that entity.
So I already had a huge background
in investigating critical incidents
in the city Milwaukee.
I got even more experience
at the state and
I have even more experience now
in my almost 10 years at West
Dallas.
So if I am the incident
commander at a critical incident
involving the police,
and it is one hour after the
event, and I am in charge of
that incident, how
much do you think I know about that
incident?
Very little.
Police officers don't make a
statement until they have had
time to talk to their attorney.
Statement is voluntary.
It's the right of every citizen,
including the police, if they want
to make a statement.
So in the infancy of an event,
I know what I can gather
from body warm camera footage,
perhaps in-squad footage,
perhaps video that's mounted on
a residence or a
building, and I have minimal
information from
officers that may have witnessed the
event.
So I've already told you it's my job
to figure out what goes on at a
police shooting, or
in the old days it was more my job.
And I've told you I know
preliminary details, that's it.
At the same time,
elected leaders are on social media
condemning the actions of
the police officer.
And then we talk about recruitment
and we talk retention and we say,
well why can't the police get people
that want to be police?
I don't care what you do for a
living, you want to be
supported by your bosses
when you can be supported.
We don't always get it right.
We usually do, a high percentage
of the time.
So that is the final
piece if you want to assist
recruitment and retention
support the police when you can
and If the police have
done the wrong no problem criticize
them look for a path forward
look for improvements to the process
But the time when you do
that is important, and
it's not one minute after an
event has occurred so
that is the conclusion
of my comments, but I welcome any
questions.
Well, thank you, Chief.
Questions, comments, questions?