For one job you would see
hundreds of applicants,
hundreds for one job.
Right now we run multiple processes
to get one
person in the door.
That's an incredible change.
Just 10 years ago we were still
seeing 60 to 80 applicants
for a deputy sheriff or
a jail job. We would run those
processes for an entire day.
As soon as someone applies now,
we're trying to get them in for
interview that week.
Because we know that the pool is
so small and there's so many jobs
out there.
I think that's been a big
part of it.
Supporting these men and women in
law enforcement, I'm telling you,
these are some of the best people
that I've ever met in my entire
life. They are good, honorable
people.
Do we have some that have
misstepped?
Absolutely.
Trust us police leaders to handle it
and deal with it because I've fired
a couple in my department alone,
good people, but they've made
mistakes and they don't live up to
the high standards.
When we empower those local leaders
to have those high standards,
be transparent in their communities,
have the support of federal,
state and local.
Leaders, I think you'll see
the increase in young men and
women wanting to serve again.
Questions, comments by committee
members?
One thing I'd go ahead,
Representative Pinot.
Thank you, Chair Schnee, thank you,
Sheriff, for being here.
We talked, and you referred to
what we can do in helping the state
to reference the bill here, which
I believe Representative Donovan
is the lead on,
and AB 138.
So it's kind of similar to the bill
that I mentioned.
Yes, sir. I really, so appreciate
you speaking to that.
That's what we need to hear from
the law enforcement community to
support these bills and then if they
need to be amended and tweaked,
we've got to know that,
so your input is very
valuable.
I'm curious if you're
willing to
address the judicial
system.
I often see, at least in
my opinion, and I think the opinion
of many others in the legislature,
that law enforcement is doing their
job admirably,
making arrests.
And then those individuals end
up on the street and
very shortly thereafter,
under arrest or after a very short
period of incarceration,
or even any incarceration.
What is your experience
in Columbia County in
that regard? How can you see
repeat offenders going to call them
that?
And what would
be your advice for
us to get the
judicial system to step up
and to do their jobs better
and more efficiently?
I think that's a great question.
And I know the answer will
vary from community to community.
Let me speak for most sheriff's
offices in rural Columbia County.
It is a concern, and we hear that
from our officers a
lot.
I spent over 20 years in
our investigative unit.
So I saw the firsthand work in these
sexual assaults, work in this
homicides, and
seeing the lack of
I think justice,
especially for our victims,
I think there's no secret.
I think it's everywhere across
most law enforcements.
They work hard, they're transparent,
they try to bring justice, they
come into it with an honest
approach, and we're just
truth seekers.
I don't care what way an
investigation goes.
We just want to find the truth and
we want to hold people accountable
for their actions and make our
community safe.
We're not always seeing that
with what we consider
to be some serious crimes when
it gets to and
through the court systems.
But you know, we tell our deputies
and our officers,
it's not under your control.
You need to focus on what you need
to do and we are going to enforce
the crimes or
the laws.
If the legislature wants to change
a law, change it and then
we'll enforce those laws.
We have to do that to really
separate. I think that sanity
Because it's it's heartbreaking
when you put your heart
and soul Miss a lot
of birthdays and family events to
do investigations I mean
these detectors are working 12 18
hours a day on these serious
criminal matters
Then to see really
nothing happen when it goes through
the court system.
Yeah, that's that's tough on them
But we sure as leaders try to
convince them. Listen, you keep
doing your job. Do what you can
control There's a separate process
for that what what the state could
do. I don't know I don't know if
there's been consideration for any
legislation legislation on that,
you know, it's hard because every
situation
Has a different meaning or reasoning
to it You know mandatory
minimums, you know, there might be
a circumstance that that a mentor
minimum won't wouldn't be reasonable
on So I think every
case is fluid and everyone needs to
be looked at individually and
separately
In and we want local government
right and when you have local judges
and local DA's and That's
that's what you're going to get from
jurisdiction to jurisdiction because
I know some counties that are very
strict You
know find a lack being one of them
Some of the northern counties are
very strict in holding
criminals accountable,
but many are not.
Very good, Sheriff.
One last question on my
point, anyway.
Policing used to be,
to a great extent, I think, or
at least to some extent,
a legacy kind of
profession. You know, my dad was
a cop or my uncle was
a police officer, sheriff.
And do you
see that
disappearing?
And second of all,
too, I know the
military was always
a
big recruitment source for
police departments.
Is that continuing or has
that slacked off?
What's your feeling on those things?
Yeah, to answer both your questions.
Yeah, we're still seeing some
applications from the military, not
as many as we have in the past.
I think I've got four or
five active duty military on
my department.
I've gotten about 15 that have
served in the military that
are not actively serving that are on
my department.
And I think you're seeing that
across most departments.
I see the opposite with the
with the legacy matter of fact most
of the men and women that
I have hired or work for me
They have a family member
in law enforcement
But I've also heard a lot of
the the more senior
deputies saying I
don't want my son or daughter to
come into this field.
I discourage them.
I'm trying to talk them out of it as
they're, you know, in late high
school years trying to decide what
their career path should be.
And I do the opposite.
I've had two of my...
Sons enter the law enforcement field
so
But but not I'm still seeing
it. I don't know if others are but
Most of them that I'm
hiring are from a law enforcement or
military family.
It's the other ones It's The
ones that have not had that law
enforcement Or military service
it's those Folks
that we're trying to recruit to
encourage them that this is an
honorable profession and to come
into the field because there's
just not enough of the other ones in
that pool right now.
Very good any other questions or
comments by committee if
not sheriff thank you very much
appreciate your time thank
you you're welcome next
is chief alex ramirez
from the city of
Good morning. Good morning committee
members. Thank you for having me.
My name is Alexander Ramirez.
I go by Alex.
I come from Syracine.
I was in Milwaukee for many years.
A little bit about Racine.
We have a population of about 78,000
people. We have high employment
rate, high poverty rate,
and we have a lot of urban-like
problems.
But other than that, we'd sit along
Lakefront, it's a beautiful place.
Because the taxpayers are paying me,
it's my choice to live in the city,
we're seen downtown, right by the
lake, because I believe that the
people deserve one of their leaders
to be available to them
at all hours of the day.
Sometimes I don't like working all
hours of the date, but that's what
we do as leaders, and that's why we
do this public service, as you guys
may know.
All right, again, thank you for
having me.
I'm going to provide a little
background here about the Racine
Police Department in recruiting,
retaining some of the sworn
officers, provide a historical
context, and summarize
steps taken to address these issues.
You can stop me at any time,
but I'm sure you're probably going
to wait until the end.
Anyway a little background key
events. I came to the received
police department back in May 2021.
They did a national search for
police chiefs.
I was one of two finalists.
I did not get it.
It was a gentleman out of Cincinnati
but he had gotten the
position and he decided to give me a
call and I obliged and
said yeah he'd asked me to be the
number two guy and I did.
Shortly thereafter he left and
after a small trial period I
became the chief of police there and
I'm very proud of that.
But little key events
that happened up there in May of
2020. 21 sworn members retired,
including most of the command staff,
largely due to changes in city
benefit structure.
Since then, 99 new
officers have been hired, including
several from other law enforcement
agencies. I know that
the service before me has spoken,
and I know I've taken some from
Milwaukee County.
Thank you. And...
That's what it is.
The situation is like they train
them. They want to come over.
We'd be glad to even take them in if
they pass certain background.
Even though I say 99 new
officers have been hired, we're
authorized for 196.
We were down to 133.
So you can imagine the impact that
it's had on the city.
And when we did the numbers, our
crime rate spiked
very high in 2022
because of that.
I attributed it because of those
numbers.
There was a loss of confidence in
the previous administration and the
retirement of the chief led to a
national search for a new chief.
That's when I came in shortly
thereafter.
The newly hired chief remained in
the position for only two years, and
I just spoke about that.
The Department has faced significant
transitions in leadership, policy,
and personnel structure.
Officers felt undervalued,
unsupported, prompting many
of them to retire, resign,
or seek other lateral transfers
to other agencies.
Just like anybody else, we lost
officers as well because of the
wages and
because of other opportunities,
because there was no confidence,
I felt, in
doing my historical research in the
Racine Police Department.
There was budget cuts, budget cuts
and freezes.
This has an impact.
And you start cutting positions out.
It's going to impact public safety.
Public safety is my number one
priority, and public safety is I
think the number one priority for
I think for any law enforcement
leader.
The budget cut and freezes
contribute to reductions in staffing
and resources impact in operations
and hiring capacity.
Some of our challenges that we have
for recruiting.
The contractual and benefit
instability.
Currently, their contract expired
in 2020.
We are now in 2025.
It wasn't until April 2023
they just had an amendment
to the wage structure and some other
payouts for sick time,
but the 2020 contract is
not signed as of yet.
So you can imagine that impact that
has on individuals who are working
their butts 24 hours a
day, 365 days
a year, working their holidays,
missing family time, forced
overtime.
So these are some of the challenges
that we had faced.
We're getting better now, but we had
faces.
The instability led to lateral
transfers that I spoke about by
veteran officers to departments
offering more competitive
compensation.
We had difficulty in attracting
qualified cancer during a period of
uncertainty.
Back in 2020, we had the impact of
COVID-19 that affected
everything in the world.
During the pandemic, officers were
required to work extended shifts
with minimal staff.
This increased burnout and
attrition, particularly
among senior staff.
Also, that contributed to some of
these recruitment challenges was a
negative public perception,
distrust in law enforcement due
to high-profile
incidents involving police
misconduct.
And the Sheriff spoke about that
earlier.
Social movements like Black Lives
Matters have led to increased
scrutiny and increased police
practices.
Many potential candidates are
deterred by the reputational risk
associated with this profession.
We had a diminished applicant
pool.
Historically, Racine Police
Department received around 300
applicants per cycle.
Between 2021 and 2025,
this number dropped to approximately
100 applicants per year.
So you can see right then and there,
that stat alone is that people are
determined away from this
profession.
Some of the key contributing factors
are the national scrutiny of law
enforcement and shifting of
police public sentiment.
More attractive private
sector alternatives and better
compensation in neighborhood,
neighboring agencies, sorry about
that.
Continued uncertainty surrounding
contract negotiations and long-term
benefits.
Our hiring standards had to change a
little bit.
We went from you had to come in with
60 credits, which is required by
state law within five years of hire.
We removed that and just followed
state law is that you can get your
60 credits within the five
years higher so that we change that
benefit structure.
The hiring status, which include the
physical fitness test.
Some people can't perform physical
fitness tests. Even if you were to
tell them, hey, you've been hired,
you're going into next class, it's
four months away, you should start
getting ready.
I remember when I went in,
I was practicing.
Standards have changed since then.
I'm by 30 for the fifth year, but I
had to hang on a bar for 45
seconds. I don't know what that had
to do with policing then.
Things have obviously changed, but i
was able to get through it.
There's psychological
evaluations that people aren't
afraid of. Background checks.
Some people have some sketchy
backgrounds.
And of course, people are afraid to
interview.
Past drug use, even in states
where marijuana is legal, can
disqualify candidates.
I'm just 20 miles from the board of
Illinois, which is recreational
marijuana is illegal.
One of the application questions
is about, have you used marijuana?
It's legal in their state.
They would have, we would expect
them to answer truthfully.
So they would say yes.
So that's one of the qualifications.
We ought to even change that to
not using marijuana at the time of
application and since then.
So I need you subject to drug
testing if you pass everything.
So one of those things, those are
one of our challenges that we have.
All right. And then of course the
competitive job market.
Law enforcement competes with
private sector jobs that offer
better pay, flexible hours,
working from home, remote
working and less risk.
Careers in technology,
healthcare, and logistics are
increasingly more attractive.
Some of our retention challenges
are leadership vacancies.
The complete retirement of the
command staff in 2021 left a
leadership gap.
Leadership was later supplemented
by two external hires, one which
included me, introducing a
significant culture shift.
The chief was brought in through a
national search, departed after
two years, further contributed
to the instability, and then me,
still an outsider.
So morale and organizational
culture.
Officer Morale had been
negatively impacted by long-standing
administrative instability,
uncertainty about career
advancement, compensation, and
departmental direction,
increased workload, and stress due
to staffing shortages.
We were expecting officers work
12 to 16 hours a day, but no more
than 16 due to the shortages
We even asked the sheriff's
department to help us cover on third
shift just because we were
short 133 out of this
compared to 196.
That's a big gap
All right, well, increased scrutiny
and legal risks.
Officers felt, feel that they
were under constant surveillance
from the public, media, and even
their own departments.
Fear lawsuits, criminal charges,
or loss of certification can cause
officers to leave their profession
early.
Job stress and burnout.
Exposure to trauma, long hours,
shift work, take a toll on officers'
mental and physical health.
Lack of institutional support or
stigma around mental health worsens
the problem.
As officers, we're
supposed to be robots.
We never should have any mental
health breakdowns.
But that's completely untrue.
We are just as human as anybody
else. We have a human scientist.
We get up every morning like
everybody else. We coach, we go to
church.
We like to go out to eat and do all
the things anybody else does.
Some additional factors that are
affected are the political climate.
Rapid changes in policies and public
demands for reform can demoralize
officers.
Recruitment delays, long hiring
process, discourage applicants
who need immediate employment.
As you know, government employment
takes a while to get a job.
We can go to a local
retail store and get the job the
same day.
Or get the interview, then get the
jobs the same.
Some of the strategic interventions
and reforms that we've done now.
Wage and contract reforms in April
20, 2023, the Racine Police
Department, just to stay
competitive, implemented a
wage increase which included
retroactive back payouts
for used sick
time. These changes contribute to
improved morale and increased
retention. So you can see that
some wage increase and some benefit
structure changes for the positive
does help bring
people in.
Incentives and recruitment programs,
well, we introduced CAS hiring
incentives for new officers up
to $5,000.
That money ran out.
That was all under the ARBIT funds.
Of course, we revised our education
qualifications and brought them to
the applicant pool.
Obviously, you have to get your 60
credits within five years of hire,
though we do have plenty that come
in with their degrees already.
We began actively recruiting at
career fairs and community events.
We still do that to this day.
We're modernizing our recruitment
strategies using social media,
outreach to diverse candidates.
We have additional incentives
by the city, which include 3%
salary bonus for city residents,
increased tuition reimbursement, and
professional development incentives.
We have a youth and pipeline
development. We partnered
with the Racine Infight School
District's Public Safety Academy.
We have a police cadet program
and community service officer
program.
These efforts aim to develop local
talent and build a community-rooted
workforce.
Some outlook and recommendations
here.
Well, we've made significant strides
in rebuilding its ranks and
addressing past sensibility.
To maintain progress,
we want to benchmark compensation
benefits regularly against peer
agencies.
We're always competing who's got
the better, a lot of it has
to do with label contracts, but
who's go the better pay?
Officers. We'll go to where that
better pay is.
Expand recruitment pipelines through
youth engagement and local
partnerships, that's what we've
done.
Invest in internal leadership
development to promote long-term
stability.
Obviously we want to get our
folks educated, getting those
degrees so they get those upper
command positions and become
leaders.
Continue to build trust and
confidence through transparent
communication with both staff and
the public. I tell you what, Racine
has a great community
support for the police department.
They're big in our, help us
in our support. They're the ones
that help us say the police are
good.
Even though in fact the ones with
the smaller voices make the loudest
noise, but we have a good community
support in our police, from our
public.
I regularly monitor morale,
workload, and retention indicators
to identify early signs of burnout.
We offer mental health support and
resilience training.
We have a peer support specialist
that has her office
in our police department.
And that line is out the door.
We create clear paths of
opportunities for specialization or
promotion.
That concludes my remarks,
but I'm more than willing to answer
any questions.
That I have here?
Or that you have?
Well, thanks, Chief.
I appreciate your willingness
to be here and a lot
of good memories of working with
you back in Milwaukee.
Having said that, you had
indicated that your department
has gone five years without a
contract.
That's correct.
It's yeah, they've been some
amendments to part of it.
One was the rate wage increase, but
okay the health and social
So, that's my point there.
It hasn't been five years that you
haven't received any pay increase
or anything like that.
That's correct. There has been some
help along the way.
Although, and I'm going to
ask you this, there's been
discussion amongst my
colleagues and myself,
certainly Milwaukee has
gone a couple years now without a
police contract.
Desire on the part of
some here in this building to
perhaps explore
legislation that
would require a
municipality or county or
whatever that if they've
gone a year without
a contract for
their police officers, that it
would automatically go
to arbitration.
Is that something that
you think has merit?
Is that's something you could
support or would
help in your particular situation?
Well, the length of
a lack of contract for certain
benefits certainly affect the
way it affects police departments.
Whether you put a timeline on it or
not, obviously that's up to the
legislators to do.
But it's certainly, our officers
want to see these things done.
They want their contracts done and
completed on time.
Understandably that there are, you
know, there are unions that you have
to deal with, there's arbitrators,
there's other, each side
has their own,
you got to give and take something.
When it comes to negotiations.
They have to negotiate these things
out. That's how it's been.
It's always been that way,
especially with unions.
But there's certainly the
time limits or timelines
could affect things.
I believe five years is
a long time.
Two years is long time,
when I was in Milwaukee, and
we went years without a contract.
And of course, it affects morale,
it effects what you want to do.
Do you really want to go into work?
Do you want get the job done?
But there's passion in us that we
go to work, even under those
circumstances. But it's important
that these
things get done on time.
We're dealing with people's
livelihoods, people that protect us
day in and day out.
Couldn't agree more questions
comments by debate.
Yeah representative Alan
Thank you for being here today
Thank you. Awesome.