That building was designed to,
if they ever took it over.
It's like, well, would the
protestors just go to another
building? Yeah, they could go find
somewhere else, yeah. I think
they're a little more into that,
but. Okay, we're set.
We're good? Good deal.
Are we rolling?
We're rolling. Alright.
And just to let you know, so the
format of this is, hopefully this
will feel like a conversation.
We'll edit, so if you do,
if something pops up, take a second,
start over. Not a big deal.
Otherwise, we are ready to go.
Alright. If you're ready to, go.
I'm ready.
All right, Joel Brennan, thanks for
coming in today.
Thanks for having me. So for the
voters who don't know you, introduce
yourself and say why you're running
for governor.
Yeah, well, I'm somebody who's had a
30 year career here in Wisconsin.
Mine's a Wisconsin story, and
I'm somebody who is of and from
here. And I can tell you the
conversations I have with people
here, that there is a palpable
sense of frustration,
anger.
I think people are truly concerned
about just making ends meet.
And then, you know, you add on to
that, that you've got Donald Trump
in the White House, who is chaotic.
He's dysfunctional, who's cruel.
And it's enough to make everybody
angry. And I'm angry too, but I'm
also somebody who, over the course
of a career, I've demonstrated.
For some people, when you get angry,
you wanna get even.
When I get angry I wanna roll up my
sleeves and get something done.
And so that's what I've tried to
demonstrate.
And so we have in
Wisconsin a situation where there
are 200,000 people who are
about to lose their healthcare
benefits.
Tens of thousands more who are gonna
see their premiums double or
triple. And so that's a reason
for people to be angry.
And in some ways, we need to
ensure that Wisconsin values
are protected.
But thankfully we have Fair Maps
now, and with Fair Maps and
a Democratic governor, we have an
opportunity to make real
lasting change for Wisconsin,
protect those values, and do things
that can put us right by Wisconsin
families. That's why I'm running.
Is there a single issue that
drives you, or maybe a lane within
the Democratic Party that helps
define who you are?
I think if anybody's looking around
right now, the main issue that
anybody is dealing with here in
Wisconsin is affordability.
You know, we're in a situation where
just in the last week it was
revealed that the first time
home buyers now are 40 years
old. Five years ago they were an
average of 33 years old,
and we've got, we spent $10,000
a year on health care
per person in Wisconsin, yet there
are people who go without, people
who can't afford their prescription
drugs.
You know, and a year of
daycare in Wisconsin costs as much
as a year of tuition at the
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee,
or University of Madison.
And we have a situation where
still there's childcare deserts
for a good portion of our state.
So all of those are challenges.
And then at the same time, you have
Donald Trump running around the
country saying affordability is a
democratic hoax.
It's not a hoax, it's an issue
that's real for every Wisconsin
resident. And I think that's the
defining issue about that.
Only how can we stand up to Donald
Trump and anybody else in Wisconsin
who would try to
stand in the way of our values, but
also how can get to a place where
we're really making a difference
for people's affordability and
how they live their lives here.
How much money do you need to raise
in order to be competitive and win
this primary and then survive into
the general election?
Yeah, well, I think elections
are expensive.
And what I'm going to do in this
race is I'm gonna lean into the
relationships that I've developed
and cultivated over the course of
the last 30 years.
You know, I grew up as the second
youngest of 11 kids.
I had to work my way through
college, have four or five jobs to
do that. Everything I've ever had,
I have earned. And so what I am
gonna do is go out and communicate
with people about the work
that I have done over the last
thirty years, the executive
experience, the breadth that I had.
I'm confident that I can generate
resources as I listen to and
talk to people around the state
This is a very large Democratic
primary, very competitive one.
How do you define the difference
between negative campaigning versus
showing up differences between
candidates?
Yeah, well, like I said, I'm the
second youngest of 11 kids.
I know what it's like to have to go
to a crowded table and elbow your
way in, whether it's for attention
or even to get a meal.
And so I'm comfortable
with that. But what I am going to do
in this campaign is really talk to
people about me and about my
background.
30 years of progressive executive
experience, things like running
the largest science museum in the
state of Wisconsin at Discovery
World. Three years as the top
appointed official in Governor
Evers' cabinet and the work that
we did there.
So the way that I'm going to
try to distinguish myself from
others is to just communicate with
them about the depth of
relationships and what we have done.
People sometimes forget in the era
of Trump that Wisconsin had
a lot of things to deal with and we
needed to recover from eight years
of Scott Walker in a right-wing
legislature. I was really proud to
stand shoulder to shoulder with
Governor Ebers over the three years
that I was his secretary.
And we were able to get
to a point where Wisconsin had its
largest surplus in state
history at that point, a rainy day
fund that got to $1.7 billion.
And then we navigated our way
through COVID and we're able to
provide real relief to
farmers,
to Wisconsin residents who needed a
roof over their head, to small
businesses.
And so those are the kinds of things
that I think I can demonstrate.
There are lots of people who will
stand up and say, yeah, we're gonna
be tough, but who actually has
rolled up their sleeves to get
something done?
So as voters start to get to know
these candidates, should they be
looking for who's closest to them on
the issues, or should they be
thinking about electability?
You know, I don't think those two
things are mutually exclusive.
I think the issues are hugely
important to everybody
here in the state.
And I think that, you know, when
voters look, they have options.
And primaries are good for
establishing options.
And so they'll have opportunities
to look at all the candidates and
what we stand for.
The things I'm really going to be
leaning into and the things I am
going to communicating with people
are about, you now, the work that
we had to do in state government.
It was a time
where government was the last resort
and had to work.
If you were running a family farm or
if you were a small business, if you
are at risk because you couldn't
make rent, you needed the
background, the government
to be there for you.
And that's what we did.
There was not a playbook that was
written for us for the
worst healthcare and economic crisis
in a hundred years.
And I'm really proud of the work
that we did throughout COVID.
And we got Wisconsin onto the
right track.
And now we're in a place where five
years later, due to some of
the dysfunction that's happening at
the federal level and things that
are at peril here in the state, we
have to ensure that we don't
backslide. So that's the area that
I really want to work on over the
next nine months of the campaign.
Most of the democratic candidates
have connections to milwaukee or
madison how do you introduce
yourself to rural wisconsin the
rest of the state
Yeah, well, mine's a Wisconsin
story.
My dad was born in 1927
to a single mom in Manitowoc,
Wisconsin. My mom was born 1928
in Milwaukee, grew up in Milwaukee
and East Troy.
And so, you know, ours is a
Wisconsin story just like
lots of other people's here.
You know, and I think, you know, as
I talk to people about
affordability, it may look a little
different in different places around
the state. If you live in the Fox
Valley and you're one of the people
who's at risk of losing your health
here. You know, that's part of
your story.
If you're a farmer and
you didn't have a chance to
have your crop go to market because
of Trump's tariffs, you know, if
you're somebody else here
in Wisconsin who's at risk
because of some of the things that
are going on at the federal level,
the story is different for people,
but the commonality is that
we all want to make Wisconsin
affordable. We need to take the
steps to ensure that Wisconsin
values and Wisconsin families are
protected. And I think that's a
story I'm looking forward to hearing
from people and I'm looking forward
discuss with them at a kitchen table
anywhere in the state of Wisconsin.
You've referenced the president a
number of times. So what impact do
you think Donald Trump will have on
this election?
I think his impact looms large
over everything that we do right
now.
And at this point, the most likely
candidate on the Republican side is
Tom Tiffany.
And the apple doesn't fall far from
the tree when it comes to Tom
Tiffany and Donald Trump.
And so I think we need candidates
who are able to stand up to
that, but not only stand up, but
be able to demonstrate that they've
been effective about doing things
and getting things done.
And in my view of
this, yes, Donald Trump is going
to play a role in the campaign.
Ultimately, the campaign can't be
just about Donald Trump.
It has to be about Wisconsin
families, Wisconsin values.
That's what I come from.
That's who I am.
And that's what i'm looking forward
to discussing and talking about as
I'm out on the campaign trail with
people.
As governor, there's a decent chance
you could have a democratic majority
behind you in the legislature.
In that case, what's AB1?
What's the first bill you want to
sign?
No matter what we do, the first
thing we need to do is work on
affordability. I think there are
any number of ways in which we need
ensure, whether it's on the issues
of stable housing around the state,
or whether it is on the issue of
health care, Medicaid expansion,
which the governor has tried to do
over the course of his eight years,
hasn't been able to do.
Those are the types of things that
can be done with
a democratic majority, and those
are types of things that I'd be
eager to do right away.
Conversely, there could also be
Republicans in charge of one of the
houses. What's your track record of
working across the aisle?
I think I'm somebody who, over the
course of 30 years, has
demonstrated that I am a
relationship person first.
It's something that I have made
a point of and I have
ensured that as
I go throughout my career, I think,
I check my ideology at the door when
I wanna roll up my sleeves and get
things done. It's necessary to do in
the nonprofit sector.
It's necessarily to do it in
government. But I would tell you
that the most important thing that
we can do in Wisconsin.
Over the course of the next nine
months, the next 11 months when we
get to the general election is to
ensure that we have a democratic
governor, ensure that because of the
fair maps, we have the democratic
majority in the assembly and
in the state Senate.
And that'll allow us to do things
that truly can make a difference in
the lives of Wisconsin residents and
make lasting change for us.
We're gonna, you know, there has
been 15 years of
Republican domination in the
legislature and 15 years where we
have backslid on really being able
to support.
Wisconsin families, Wisconsin
workers, I'd be eager to
change that trend and the
most important thing to do in that
regard is to get a democratic
governor and democrats in the
legislature.
The Public Service Commission is
looking at pretty large utility rate
hikes. There's data centers being
proposed all over.
What's your plan to deal with those
issues?
Well, I think that the biggest thing
that we have to do when it comes
to all of this stuff around
AI and data centers, the
challenge for
government is around transparency
and accountability.
The companies that are looking to
build these, they want speed.
They are intent on getting this
done as quickly as possible.
The communities that are affected,
the rate payers, what they
want and what they need out of
government is they need us to be
responsible. They need us to be
accountable. And they need to ensure
that there's transparency with
all of this.
Now, AI is something that I think
is, it is
a little disconcerting to me
personally because it's an area
that all of us know how dramatically
and how quickly things are changing.
So, you know, we're all, we all have
a little anxiety about that and you
see that at the local level with
these things. But I think that the
responsibility that we have
fundamentally is to just ensure that
these conversations, some that are
happening at the state level, a lot
that are are happening at the level.
Level. That the
main thing that we have with them is
that there is transparency around
them and that the users of this
are accountable and that, you know,
the benefits accrue to all of us and
that responsibility for the costs
aren't borne by taxpayers in
the state of Wisconsin.
What would you like to see happen
with public education funding?
Do we need an increase?
Do we an overhaul in the system?
Well, I think, you know, we've got
to make sure that we look absolutely
at how do we spend more
on public education in Wisconsin.
One of the challenges I think is
that we're still working on a
system.
Tommy Thompson took a snapshot of
what things looked like in 1993
and we're still looking we're, still
working with that system 32 years
later. I think it would be
courageous and necessary for us to
look at exactly what we
need to do for 2026
and moving forward.
Rather than trying to make the best
of a 30 year old system.
So I absolutely think that we need
to invest in special education.
We need to fund our schools
appropriately.
We need ensure that classrooms are
places that are welcoming for
teachers, welcoming for students.
And then we've got to hold ourselves
accountable for the outcomes because
nothing more important to us and the
future of our state than ensuring
that we have the kind of outcomes
that we needed coming out of our
schools all across the state and at
every level from early childhood.
All the way up through the
university and technical system.
What would you like to see happen
with the voucher system?
Expand, contract, stay the same.
You know, the voucher system has now
been in place for the last 30
years. I'm not interested in a
dramatic expansion of it, but I also
think there's challenges of trying
to put that genie back into the
bottle. I think the most fundamental
thing for us is around
accountability for everybody in
education.
Making sure that we have the right
investment in kids and making
sure that we're holding ourselves,
holding schools accountable for
the challenges that we having in
education, but at the same time, you
know, as in anything with education.
There are lots of problems that come
to the schoolhouse door that have
nothing to do with what happens
inside that schoolhouse.
So we also need to make sure that
we're fundamentally looking at how
do we ensure that there's better
housing around the state that we
provide for people when it comes to
health insurance and just the
overall economic opportunities that
we need as a state.
You know, I'm a parent, I am a
father of two kids and I want my
kids to have a chance to do
and be successful here in
Wisconsin. Part of the path that's
gotten them there is a strong public
education and where they could do
that. And that's what we need to
get for everybody here in the state
of Wisconsin.
What's the number one tax reform
you'd like to see?
I think that there are just that we
have made strides in the last few
sessions in terms of reducing
taxes to people, the tax burden on
people in the middle class.
And I think as we look at
anything related to taxes and
generating revenue in the state of
Wisconsin, equity and fairness needs
to be the way that we look that.
I think the way the legislature has
had a super majority,
almost a super-majority in the
assembly and the Senate over the
last 15 years, I think we may have
gotten a little bit askew
in terms of how we're looking at
equity and fairness in our tax
system. And I think we should
explore that everywhere.
But I think that the main thing is
that, you know, at this point, the
biggest issue that people have in
the state of Wisconsin is how
can they afford to
pay for the issues or the
things that they need to put on
their kitchen table.
And so, you now, as we think about
what the tax burden is, we need
to ensure that we're giving
people the tools and the
opportunities to be successful in
their families.
Over the last year, the Wisconsin
Supreme Court has struck down a lot
of legislative oversight over the
legislative rulemaking process.
There have been talks of possibly a
bipartisan compromise to restore
some oversight.
What would you like to see happen as
governor?
Well, I think, you know, people
should think about what happened
in the lame duck session before Tony
Evers ever started.
You know, the legislature
and Scott Walker looked to try to
gut the governor's office and the
attorney general, and a lot of
what's happened in last year is
restoring, I think, the right
balance between the legislature and
the governor. You know Wisconsin
works best when we have three
co-equal branches of government,
when the legislature, the governor,
and the judicial branch are all.
Operating well and and that has been
certainly out of line over the last
15 years as republicans have
have oftentimes run roughshod over
other branches of government and
other parts of of wisconsin's
the important wisconsin elements so
you know i think that we need to
restore that balance but i think
it's we also the most
important thing that we can do is
ensure that there's a democratic
governor ensure that the legislature
that has a democratic majority
in the assembly in the Senate.
And if we can do that.
We'll start to get that balance, not
just with the legislature and the
governor, but the balance that I
think taxpayers and citizens of
Wisconsin.
What would you like to see happen
for funding for local government?
Well, I think I was very involved
in the effort two years ago to try
to ensure that there was some
better, that
local units of government got more
of that shared revenue because
that's where the rubber meets the
road. You know, where, at
local government, that's were public
safety, where local
roads and bridges fire,
all of those very important services
are done.
And that contract, people I think
know it, the contract is about 115
years old, where.
You know, Wisconsin was one of the
first places to collect all the
money in Madison and then
send it back to local units of
government. Well, when we have the
number of referenda that are still
going on, when, you know, places
like Whitewater and Stevens Point
have to go to referendum
in order to create
positions for firefighters, that
system is still not working the
way it needs to work.
And so, you now, I think that no
matter what we do, we need to
ensure that the relationship between
local government and state
government. Is strong and that
we're hearing what's happening at
the local level.
And I think that we have, for
many years, as state shared
revenue was frozen, I think we
were not listening to local
government as their costs were
increasing. I think, we've done a
little bit. We've made some progress
in that in the last few years, but
it certainly is not something that's
been fixed yet. And so that would be
one of the areas that I'd be
committed to working on with
all of my partners in local
government.
Right now there's exploratory
drilling in northern Wisconsin
and a number of different sites
looking at future mines.
The mining law was overhauled in
2017.
Do you think that current law is
correct? Would you like to see
something different in place for
these potential mines?
I think one of the most important
things that we have in Wisconsin,
a differentiator that we have and
Wisconsin versus other places around
the country is the natural
beauty, the ability that we
go out and enjoy Wisconsin.
And that's not a partisan issue,
that's an ideological issue.
That's a vision that we share for
the state. And so as we think about
anything that would do any
potential harm to the state of
Wisconsin, I think we need to be
very cautious about that.
I think there are.
Issues around economic
development that I think we need to
try to find that right balance.
And if it's time to revisit that
issue or it's to have that
conversation, I'd be all for it.
But the most important thing for
me and one of the most core
differentiations for Wisconsin from
anywhere else in the country is
how we appreciate and how we have a
visceral connection to Wisconsin
and its beauty and I'm not
going to be somebody who puts that
in peril on.
On behalf of the six million
residents of our state.
That's something that's paramount
for us.
In this political environment, have
you had any concerns for your own
personal safety while campaigning?
I'm concerned about the level
of vitriol for anybody here.
You know, I'm concern when I see
what happened in
Pennsylvania with Josh Shapiro
and what happened at the executive
residence there.
You know one of the things that I
bring to this campaign is as
the secretary of the Department of
Administration, we were responsible
for the management
of the executive residents of
the state capitol.
And so you know I've had opportunity
to see that. I respect the people
who do that work and who
work in local law enforcement.
You know, I guess I still believe
that campaigns are about
ideas.
And I absolutely, I know
that there are going to be people
who disagree with me and disagree
with me on the campaign.
You know I hope and expect that
they're going to do that honorably.
I am more than willing to take
potshots that people have online and
you know and There's a lot of that
and I have
to have a thick skin around that.
But I hope that we're at a place,
and I hope we can demonstrate in
Wisconsin, that we do things
civilly.
You know, we have a horrible example
at the federal level in Donald
Trump, who I think we
continually kind
of find out how much lower he can
go, where we don't think that
morally or ethically he can any
lower. And his comments about the
death of Rob Reiner and his wife
were just another example of
that. But I'd like to think that in
Wisconsin we can elevate the
discussion, elevate the way we
treat people.
That's who we are.
That's the core values that we share
and who we just as
Wisconsinite.
What's your plan to increase
affordable housing?
You know, I think you're in a
situation I mentioned earlier where
we are
in a place in Wisconsin where
the average, the first time
average home buyer, the average
age for that has gone to 40 years
old and it was 33 years old
just five years ago.
And so we are creating a
nation of renters and a state of
renter and no matter where you go
around the state, when you're
talking to an employer, when your
talking to the in the school
district where you're talking to.
Universities or higher ed people,
they all say that there is a
challenge in finding the
housing for not only affordable
housing at the lowest income level,
but also for those who are
seeking their and getting their
first job or starting their
families. So that's an issue that
is absolutely paramount to me.
I think, you know, Wisconsin likely
needs a top to bottom housing
plan where we can look at all
aspects of this.
And there are.
Tools at our disposal that we have
through WEDA that I'm
not sure that we are using to the
best of our abilities, and if we
need new tools, we'll go out and get
them. But this is kind of the core
of affordability for Wisconsin
families, is ensuring that they
have a safe and secure place
to put a roof over their head, that
they can build equity, that can
build wealth for their family over
time. So that's one of the issues
that I look forward to working with
as soon as I become governor.
The Department of Corrections is
undergoing a pretty rapid overhaul.
Would you carry Governor Evers' plan
forward?
Well, I think I was
at the front end of some of those,
the work that happened with
Governor Evers and the
administration.
I think that the challenge that we
have, and I worked with
Secretary Kevin Carr as
the head of the Department of
Corrections. And I think, as I told
him, he had one of the toughest jobs
in state government.
And I feel we need to continually
try to create
that balance where there is
need for secure detention.
And where there's need for employees
of the correction system to
have the right tools
at their disposal, we need to create
those because we have these
150-year-old prisons
and things that we need to do and
to make investments on.
But at the same time, I think we
also need, and I think the governor
has done this too, we need you to
look at the alternatives to
incarceration. We need to work with
our partners at the local level to
ensure that there is a pathway that
doesn't just ensure that what
we have is the last resort,
which is where we're putting people
in prison and locking them up.
If somebody, you know, if there's
a law that's broken, I
respect the judicial system and I
respect ability for lawyers and
judges to manage that and put people
in prisons and incarcerate
them as they need to.
But there's so much that we can do
at the front end, investing in early
childhood, investing in education,
ensuring that there are
opportunities for people who are
coming out of high school or
technical schools.
There are lots of things that we can
do to ensure that we're not just
doing things and spending them at
the end of the pipeline.
Would you like to see any changes to
Wisconsin abortion laws?
Well, abortion, to me, is
a decision that is best made
between a woman and her health
care provider.
Abortion is health care.
And so, you know, I'd like to see
us to do things that
get politics out of that and
ensure that women and their doctors
can make those decisions, educated
and informed decisions on their own.
Joel Brennan, thanks for coming in.
Thank you.
All right, you made it through.
Thank you very much.