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Senator Larson, do we have you yet?

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Good to see you, but to see

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YOU sir, thank you.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Oh, we thought you were going to be

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on the phone.

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But no, you're here in person,

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my favorite friend.

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Sorry, I just missed you.

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Oh!

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How's this feeling?

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Did you, did you?

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Good morning, this is

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the.

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Started the meeting on committees

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and universities,

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or technical colleges and

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universities.

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So this committee is now

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in session.

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Welcome all of you who are attending

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as visitors and potential speakers.

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If you are looking to register,

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whether to speak or just to

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register.

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Please talk to our folks who are by

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the doors or we have kiosks outside

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that you can

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fill out for the benefit

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of this committee.

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We have everybody

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accounted for and we understand

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who is here to speak

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versus just here to attend.

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With that, we will go ahead and take

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the role of the committee.

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Senator Hutton here.

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Senator Raul Guerrero.

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Here.

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Senator Fine.

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Senator Larson

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here. Senator Pat, yeah.

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Well, thank you for joining us

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today.

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We ask you to ensure that for the

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respect of everybody, if you

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have a phone, that you would mute

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it.

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And the last committee is the

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actual chair forgot to do that.

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So I will try to be

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consistent with all of you to make

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sure that it happens as well.

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Mr. Chairman.

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Yes, sir.

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Before we get started, I wanted to

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ask like.

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Council question.

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Let me go ahead and get through our

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remarks and we

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can do that.

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Thank you.

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If you do have written testimony and

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you do plan to testify,

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we'd ask that you would have copies

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for the committee ahead of

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time. And again, our folks

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in Pages that can help that,

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please get your information to them

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and they will take care of making

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those copies for you.

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We are here today about a decision

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by the Board of Regents that raises

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concerns not just about

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transparency, but about how prepared

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or serious they

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are about addressing the strategic

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direction of the University of

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Wisconsin system.

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Firing President Jay Rothman without

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a clear explanation to the public

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requires scrutiny.

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It demands the public receives the

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answers that it is entitled to.

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This is not a routine personal

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matter. This is the chief executive

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of one of the most important public

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institutions in our state.

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Decisions that it's making to

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require a straightforward

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explanation.

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Transparency is the foundation of

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public trust.

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When decisions are made without an

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explained justification, it further

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erodes confidence, not just to

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the Board of Regents, but in the

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institution itself.

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The legislature has an important

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role in the oversight of a state

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entity like the Board of Regents

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in exactly this type of situation.

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Particularly the Senate has a role

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of approving the Governor's

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nominations to the Board Regents.

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If Regents expect to earn the

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approval of this body, they must

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demonstrate a commitment to open and

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humble decision making.

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Throughout my time in the State

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Senate and this committee's time, we

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have tried to focus on big picture

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and long-term challenges that

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need to be addressed in higher

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education to remain strong over

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the coming decades.

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The UW System is a cornerstone of

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our state's economy and I believe we

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would all agree with that consensus.

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It is currently educating 1,650,000

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students, and it provides a

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critical workforce pipeline

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for employers across our

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state.

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At the same time, it faces serious

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long-term challenges.

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Enrollment has declined by 9

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percent since 2012,

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far more than counting just

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traditional students, with some

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campuses seeing 25 to 30

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percent enrollment drops.

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There is a shrinking college age

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population, increasing alternatives

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to four-year educations,

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and growing concerns over families

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about the cost and value and return

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on that education investment.

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Employers across Wisconsin are

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telling us they cannot find enough

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workers with the skills they

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need while students are questioning

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whether the traditional model of

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higher education is meeting their

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needs long-term.

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At the same time, we continue to

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hear concerns about the cost and

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value of the degree and the

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statement of bureaucracy within the

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current system.

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These are issues that demand the

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full attention of the Board of

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Regents.

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Instead, we are faced with a sudden

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leadership shakeup that risks

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creating instability at a time when

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the chancellor turnover is high and

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our flagship university is losing

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its CEO.

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While the system desperately needs

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to be more ambitious and

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reform-minded, President Rothman

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worked to move the system forward

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through different challenges,

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engaging with both the legislature

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and the governor on reforms.

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Removing him with no explanation

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sends a troubling signal to

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taxpayers, students, and employers,

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and even donors about

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where this institution is heading.

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My committee and I have consistently

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worked to advocate for deep system

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reforms that will strengthen the

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UW system long-term.

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Reforms that improve accountability,

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align education with workforce

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needs, ensure that taxpayers

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and families are getting the value

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for their investment.

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We must all ensure that the UW

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System remains strong, competitive,

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and responsive to the needs of its

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employers.

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Today's hearing is about what went

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into the decision to remove

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President Rothman, if those

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justifications warrant his removal,

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and if the process earns the

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continued trust of the Senate.

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The Senate has a constitutional role

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in confirming

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regents, and that authority

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exists for a reason, and that

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reason is accountability within the

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system.

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If that standard is not being met,

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it is appropriate for this committee

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to act.

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We owe it to the people of Wisconsin

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to ask questions, to demand answers,

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and to ensure the governance of the

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United System reflects the depth

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of the challenges it faces.

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With that, we will go into the

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hearing and we will begin

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to call up those who are here to

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testify.

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And Senator Papp, you have a

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question for Ledge Council.

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Before we proceed, I do thank

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you very much, Mr.

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Chairman. My question for Lodge

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Council is, can you explain

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to me and

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to my colleagues what

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is the definition of at-will

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employment?

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Let's just gin

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it down to, could be generally

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cast

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as an employment arrangement

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that is able to be discharged by

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either party, employer or

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employee without

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cause or reason.

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So just to be clear, do

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you or do you not have to have a

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reason for your termination if you

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are an Antwell employee?

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Generally no.

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I thank you very much for that.

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I assume that the former

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CEO of Wisconsin's largest

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law firm knows

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that as well.

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I would also say this, I do

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always take the

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responsibility of oversight,

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very important, and I do agree

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with the chair that investment

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in the University of Wisconsin

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system is important as an investment

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in our economy.

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But I will just make this comment.

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This is the fourth public

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hearing this legislative

250
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,319
session that this

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00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:10,320
committee has had.

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We have only met three times

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prior.

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And if we're serious about

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oversight when

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it comes to the University of

257
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Wisconsin system, making sure

258
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that there is accountability with

259
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the UW system,

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we have a job to do as well.

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And it is disappointing that

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00:10:31,070 --> 00:10:34,049
this is only the fourth time that

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00:10:34,050 --> 00:10:35,509
this committee has met this

264
00:10:35,510 --> 00:10:36,529
legislative session.

265
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With that, I yield back.

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With that, we have two individuals

267
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,999
registered to testify

268
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,799
before this committee here this

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afternoon.

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I will ask President

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Bogast and

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00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:55,979
are we going to have both of you

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come up at the same time?

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Very good.

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And Timothy Nixon, both from the

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00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:01,119
board of regents and obviously the

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00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,119
board chair, you are

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00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,979
free to come up and

279
00:11:04,980 --> 00:11:06,119
testify before us.

280
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,400
Okay, thank you very much.

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Waiting for others to join.

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Chairman Hutton and members

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00:11:39,950 --> 00:11:42,189
of this committee, good morning.

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I am grateful for the opportunity

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to appear before you today, and

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00:11:46,070 --> 00:11:48,029
I do not take it lightly that

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00:11:48,030 --> 00:11:49,709
this is my third time before this

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00:11:49,710 --> 00:11:50,710
committee.

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I want to begin where I always begin

290
00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:54,749
when I speak about the University of

291
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:57,229
Wisconsin, with gratitude.

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Serving on this Board of Regents has

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been among the greatest honors of my

294
00:12:00,850 --> 00:12:02,949
life. For six years

295
00:12:02,950 --> 00:12:04,969
I have had this privilege of sitting

296
00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:06,869
in rooms with students who

297
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:08,839
are first first in

298
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,819
their families to earn a college

299
00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:13,079
degree, with veterans returning

300
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,219
to finish what they started,

301
00:12:15,220 --> 00:12:16,759
with researchers unlocking

302
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,819
discoveries that will change

303
00:12:18,820 --> 00:12:20,759
how we treat diseases, and

304
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,859
with faculty and staff who

305
00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:24,939
show up every single day

306
00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:26,719
committed to the mission of these

307
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:27,720
institutions.

308
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:30,549
The University of Wisconsin is

309
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:32,309
not an abstraction.

310
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:34,549
It is a living, breathing engine

311
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:36,569
of opportunity for the people of the

312
00:12:36,570 --> 00:12:37,369
state.

313
00:12:37,370 --> 00:12:39,269
And it contributes billions

314
00:12:39,270 --> 00:12:41,269
of dollars to our economy by

315
00:12:41,270 --> 00:12:43,289
producing the teachers,

316
00:12:43,290 --> 00:12:45,189
engineers, nurses,

317
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:46,769
and business leaders Wisconsin

318
00:12:46,770 --> 00:12:47,770
depends on.

319
00:12:48,930 --> 00:12:50,909
My entire family are

320
00:12:50,910 --> 00:12:52,549
graduates of the University of

321
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:53,399
Johnson.

322
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,459
I have seen firsthand what these

323
00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:57,559
universities have meant to my family

324
00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,659
and to so many Wisconsin

325
00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:00,919
families.

326
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,819
That is why I take this

327
00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:05,259
responsibility so seriously,

328
00:13:05,260 --> 00:13:07,359
and why I will continue to advocate

329
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,979
for these institutions with

330
00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:10,759
everything I have.

331
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,459
I say all of this because I want

332
00:13:12,460 --> 00:13:14,539
this committee to understand the

333
00:13:14,540 --> 00:13:16,479
spirit in which every one of my

334
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,229
fellow regents approaches this work.

335
00:13:19,230 --> 00:13:21,249
We are experienced leaders from

336
00:13:21,250 --> 00:13:23,509
business, law, academia,

337
00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:24,889
and public service.

338
00:13:24,890 --> 00:13:26,929
We are proud alumni.

339
00:13:26,930 --> 00:13:28,769
We are volunteers who

340
00:13:28,770 --> 00:13:31,089
take no compensation and

341
00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:32,889
bring deep judgment to the

342
00:13:32,890 --> 00:13:34,009
responsibility we have been

343
00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:35,889
entrusted with.

344
00:13:35,890 --> 00:13:37,629
And it is from this place of genuine

345
00:13:37,630 --> 00:13:39,489
care for these institutions and

346
00:13:39,490 --> 00:13:41,449
the people they serve that the

347
00:13:41,450 --> 00:13:43,769
Board of Regents reached a unanimous

348
00:13:43,770 --> 00:13:45,629
17-0 decision

349
00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:47,489
to end Mr. Rothman's

350
00:13:47,490 --> 00:13:48,490
employment.

351
00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:50,749
I recognize that this hearing has

352
00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:52,509
been convened in the wake of that

353
00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:54,429
decision, and I want to address

354
00:13:54,430 --> 00:13:56,149
this community directly and

355
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:57,150
honestly.

356
00:13:58,190 --> 00:14:00,129
It is entirely understandable that

357
00:14:00,130 --> 00:14:01,969
this committee has questions, and

358
00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:03,809
I want be as transparent with

359
00:14:03,810 --> 00:14:06,049
you as I am legally

360
00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:07,829
able to do.

361
00:14:07,830 --> 00:14:09,429
But I need to say something clearly.

362
00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:12,709
President Rothman knows exactly

363
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:13,859
what he is doing.

364
00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:15,999
He is a sophisticated professional

365
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,719
who understands that personnel

366
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,999
matters are confidential.

367
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,939
The confidentiality surrounding his

368
00:14:21,940 --> 00:14:24,539
evaluation was not arbitrary.

369
00:14:24,540 --> 00:14:26,759
It reflects a fundamental fiduciary

370
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,799
duty that this board owes to

371
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,699
the University of Wisconsin,

372
00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:32,799
to the integrity of our process,

373
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,759
and to every individual who is

374
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,199
subject to them.

375
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,899
We kept this matter confidential

376
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:40,259
because that is what

377
00:14:40,260 --> 00:14:43,039
responsible governance requires.

378
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,139
It is what law requires,

379
00:14:45,140 --> 00:14:47,219
and it is what our obligation is

380
00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:49,699
to these universities.

381
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:51,519
And yet, President Rothman, who

382
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,579
understands all of this,

383
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:55,499
has chosen to use that constraint as

384
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:56,659
a shield.

385
00:14:56,660 --> 00:14:58,539
Making public statements, he knows

386
00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:00,559
I cannot rebut it.

387
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,659
And framing a narrative, he know I

388
00:15:02,660 --> 00:15:04,359
cannot correct.

389
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,039
That is deliberately one sided,

390
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,399
that is not a search for truth,

391
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,400
that a strategy.

392
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,539
I will not pretend otherwise,

393
00:15:13,540 --> 00:15:15,899
what he said publicly is misleading,

394
00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:17,279
and the fact that it is misleading

395
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,159
does not reflect a lack

396
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,219
of reasons on the part

397
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:22,879
of this board.

398
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,079
It reflects the opposite.

399
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,299
The reasons are substantial.

400
00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:28,899
The process was very thorough.

401
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:30,959
And if Mr. Rothman generally wants

402
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,039
this committee and the public to

403
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,879
understand what happened, there

404
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,639
is a straightforward path.

405
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,259
He can waive his confidentiality.

406
00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:41,199
The moment he does, I will

407
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,979
sit before this committee and walk

408
00:15:42,980 --> 00:15:43,819
through the details.

409
00:15:43,820 --> 00:15:45,979
I welcome that conversation.

410
00:15:45,980 --> 00:15:47,959
Until then, I'm not hiding behind

411
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:48,739
this rule.

412
00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:50,779
I'm honoring it.

413
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:52,779
It is my responsibility,

414
00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:55,059
the board's responsibility, as

415
00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:56,919
a member and attorney

416
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,899
that I must do.

417
00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:01,459
What I can tell you is this.

418
00:16:01,460 --> 00:16:03,319
That decision was not made

419
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:04,139
lightly.

420
00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:06,179
It was not political, it was

421
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:09,199
not retaliatory, it was unanimous,

422
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,119
every single member of the board in

423
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,879
attendance was in agreement.

424
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,739
Boards of regents do not reach

425
00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:17,639
17 to zero decisions on

426
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:18,640
a limb.

427
00:16:21,010 --> 00:16:23,049
I also want to address directly

428
00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:25,349
what has been said publicly

429
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:27,269
in recent days.

430
00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:28,929
Mr. Rothman has stated that he will

431
00:16:28,930 --> 00:16:30,809
not step down because he believes he

432
00:16:30,810 --> 00:16:32,069
is doing what is best for the

433
00:16:32,070 --> 00:16:34,189
University of Wisconsin.

434
00:16:34,190 --> 00:16:35,909
At the same time he is making this

435
00:16:35,910 --> 00:16:37,829
claim, he is engaged in

436
00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:40,009
a sustained public campaign that

437
00:16:40,010 --> 00:16:41,969
is causing real harm to these very

438
00:16:41,970 --> 00:16:42,970
institutions,

439
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:46,609
the ones he says he is protecting.

440
00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:48,989
Every day spent re-litigating

441
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:50,949
this decision through the media is

442
00:16:50,950 --> 00:16:53,549
a day that undercuts the faculty,

443
00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:55,469
the students and the staff

444
00:16:55,470 --> 00:16:57,269
and the reputation of our

445
00:16:57,270 --> 00:16:58,789
universities.

446
00:16:58,790 --> 00:17:00,309
I will let the public and this

447
00:17:00,310 --> 00:17:02,109
committee decide if that is a mark

448
00:17:02,110 --> 00:17:03,110
of true leadership.

449
00:17:04,310 --> 00:17:06,189
Mr. Rothman made clear repeatedly

450
00:17:06,190 --> 00:17:08,169
that he would only wish

451
00:17:08,170 --> 00:17:10,249
to serve with the board's

452
00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:12,088
full confidence.

453
00:17:12,089 --> 00:17:13,309
We took him at his word.

454
00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:15,229
When that confidence was no

455
00:17:15,230 --> 00:17:17,608
longer no longer existed,

456
00:17:17,609 --> 00:17:19,549
we acted accordingly.

457
00:17:19,550 --> 00:17:21,249
The universities of Wisconsin at

458
00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:23,068
this critical moment in higher

459
00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:24,909
education deserves

460
00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:27,149
nothing less than a leader who

461
00:17:27,150 --> 00:17:29,289
is fully aligned with the board and

462
00:17:29,290 --> 00:17:31,129
ready to lead.

463
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:33,149
I have devoted six years of

464
00:17:33,150 --> 00:17:34,949
my life to this board.

465
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:36,929
We are not political hacks.

466
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:38,669
We are a rubber stamp.

467
00:17:38,670 --> 00:17:40,849
We are serious public servants

468
00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:42,569
who have given of ourselves because

469
00:17:42,570 --> 00:17:44,429
we believe in what the

470
00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:46,409
Universities of Wisconsin means

471
00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:48,529
to the people of Wisconsin.

472
00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:50,609
And we made a difficult decision for

473
00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:52,429
the right reasons and we stand

474
00:17:52,430 --> 00:17:53,430
by it.

475
00:17:54,730 --> 00:17:56,389
I am honored to continue this

476
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:57,209
service.

477
00:17:57,210 --> 00:17:59,269
I firmly believe that this board

478
00:17:59,270 --> 00:18:01,069
and the Universities of Wisconsin

479
00:18:01,070 --> 00:18:03,369
are made of something much

480
00:18:03,370 --> 00:18:05,289
stronger than this moment.

481
00:18:05,290 --> 00:18:07,129
And I thank you very much for this

482
00:18:07,130 --> 00:18:08,469
time. Thank you.

483
00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:11,569
Thank you, Mr. President.

484
00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:12,709
Appreciate your testimony.

485
00:18:14,770 --> 00:18:15,649
Mr. Nixon, would you like to go

486
00:18:15,650 --> 00:18:18,189
ahead and testify and then we can

487
00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:19,569
open it up to the committee?

488
00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:22,009
Let me just make a few comments,

489
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:23,349
because President Pocot's covered

490
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:25,329
it. She and I are sort of a gang of

491
00:18:25,330 --> 00:18:26,930
any, at least in style.

492
00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:30,429
So let me do my 10 Nixon

493
00:18:30,430 --> 00:18:31,430
comments.

494
00:18:32,430 --> 00:18:34,409
This is an unfortunate situation

495
00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:36,449
for the University of Wisconsin.

496
00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:38,389
I did not choose this, Jay

497
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:39,809
Rothman did.

498
00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:41,789
This was done, by the way,

499
00:18:41,790 --> 00:18:43,849
exactly like he

500
00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:45,929
handled the same situation

501
00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:47,009
for others.

502
00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:48,969
Look at the political letters

503
00:18:48,970 --> 00:18:50,289
from a couple days ago.

504
00:18:50,290 --> 00:18:52,189
This is the way since at

505
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:54,029
least Governor Thompson was there

506
00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:55,929
that these kinds of

507
00:18:55,930 --> 00:18:58,859
situations are handled at UW.

508
00:18:58,860 --> 00:19:00,459
I just want to be clear that there's

509
00:19:00,460 --> 00:19:02,419
nothing unusual about

510
00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:04,079
the approach to Mr. Rothman, the

511
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:04,999
request.

512
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,139
This is what the UW has

513
00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:10,179
done, including Mr.Rothman.

514
00:19:10,180 --> 00:19:11,679
He played this well.

515
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,259
He knows we cannot disclose events

516
00:19:13,260 --> 00:19:14,879
that occurred in a closed session.

517
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,719
He's using that. And believe me,

518
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,039
being quiet for a week is unnatural

519
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,579
for me. I may have to be committed,

520
00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:24,159
but I have that quiet,

521
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,199
that is.

522
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,699
I am 68 years old.

523
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:29,819
Never before, never

524
00:19:29,820 --> 00:19:31,699
have I been accused of

525
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:33,679
not being direct,

526
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,259
clear, and unambiguous.

527
00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:38,239
My reputation is that I

528
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,559
am too much so.

529
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,479
His claim that

530
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,439
he does not or did not

531
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,519
know has all of the substance

532
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,359
of the shadow of a starving

533
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,899
pigeon. I'm going to repeat that.

534
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:49,799
That's Abraham Lincoln.

535
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,779
All of the substance of the

536
00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:53,539
shadow of a starving pigeon.

537
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,299
In the beginning, his

538
00:19:57,300 --> 00:19:59,159
command and control, management

539
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,159
style, and practices were

540
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,979
necessary and

541
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:05,079
beneficial to

542
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,279
bring financial and operational

543
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,639
discipline to an organization

544
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,419
that needed it.

545
00:20:11,420 --> 00:20:13,399
No dispute on that, and you all

546
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,239
sit here, you've been looking at it

547
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,399
longer than I have.

548
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,269
I thank him for that.

549
00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:20,789
That is a service.

550
00:20:20,790 --> 00:20:22,909
Regarding other accomplishments,

551
00:20:22,910 --> 00:20:24,889
he is a bit like the rooster crowing

552
00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:26,449
and then taking credit for the

553
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:27,450
sunrise after.

554
00:20:28,350 --> 00:20:30,369
The good things that were a

555
00:20:30,370 --> 00:20:32,329
massive team effort, not the

556
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:34,169
accomplishments of one

557
00:20:34,170 --> 00:20:35,170
person.

558
00:20:35,930 --> 00:20:38,169
We need, this is about the

559
00:20:38,170 --> 00:20:39,069
future.

560
00:20:39,070 --> 00:20:41,029
What kind of leadership is needed

561
00:20:41,030 --> 00:20:43,069
for the future?

562
00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:44,909
Let me just point out one

563
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:47,009
sort of quasi-objective.

564
00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:50,319
U.S. News and World Report

565
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,459
does an annual review of

566
00:20:52,460 --> 00:20:55,279
the 50 top innovative

567
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,739
universities in the United States

568
00:20:57,740 --> 00:20:59,599
regarding education,

569
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,539
class size, all of that

570
00:21:01,540 --> 00:21:03,699
sort of thing. How we educate people

571
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:05,059
at universities.

572
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:06,859
It lists the top 50.

573
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:09,419
Now most of these lists don't

574
00:21:09,420 --> 00:21:11,379
think much of, and it's not that

575
00:21:11,380 --> 00:21:12,439
we're not number one.

576
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,769
We're not even on the list!

577
00:21:14,770 --> 00:21:17,149
Of the top 50 innovative

578
00:21:17,150 --> 00:21:19,909
schools in the United States.

579
00:21:19,910 --> 00:21:21,349
Not even on the list.

580
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:23,109
This is not a conservative liberal

581
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:25,169
thing because our good friends and

582
00:21:25,170 --> 00:21:27,269
neighbors at Marquette University

583
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:29,029
have made the list of the most

584
00:21:29,030 --> 00:21:31,149
innovative universities in the US.

585
00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:33,689
So thank God one higher education

586
00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:35,569
institution in the state has

587
00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:36,589
made the best.

588
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:38,509
There's at least one other one

589
00:21:38,510 --> 00:21:40,250
that should be on that.

590
00:21:42,509 --> 00:21:44,529
Change is not Mr.

591
00:21:44,530 --> 00:21:46,549
Rothman's strong suit.

592
00:21:46,550 --> 00:21:48,129
Yet change is what we desperately

593
00:21:48,130 --> 00:21:50,909
need. We need to be nimble.

594
00:21:50,910 --> 00:21:52,749
A major difference between Mr.

595
00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:54,669
Rothman and me was

596
00:21:54,670 --> 00:21:57,749
his lack of urgency,

597
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:59,569
despite protestations to the

598
00:21:59,570 --> 00:22:01,469
contrary. It is his nature to

599
00:22:01,470 --> 00:22:02,739
be very deliberate.

600
00:22:02,740 --> 00:22:04,799
We don't have time to be very

601
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,159
deliberate in the year 2026

602
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,999
in the sense that we can't take a

603
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,859
year and six months to

604
00:22:10,860 --> 00:22:12,779
decide and think about every

605
00:22:12,780 --> 00:22:14,239
single issue.

606
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,279
This is no different than moving

607
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,379
on to a new quarterback no

608
00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:19,759
matter what you thought of the

609
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,659
previous quarterback or what they

610
00:22:21,660 --> 00:22:22,599
did.

611
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:23,899
We know how to do that in this

612
00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:25,239
state. That's functionally what

613
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,479
we're doing.

614
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,480
Forward.

615
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:31,119
Very good.

616
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:32,019
Regent Nixon, appreciate that

617
00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:33,140
testimony as well.

618
00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:35,579
And with that, I'm sure we'll have a

619
00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:37,499
few questions for you

620
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:38,919
over the next few minutes.

621
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,239
So we'll go ahead and open up the

622
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,659
committee and go from there.

623
00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:42,660
Senator Larson.

624
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:44,969
Thank you.

625
00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:46,849
Both for coming

626
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:48,829
to testify on short notice.

627
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:52,089
We are here at a

628
00:22:52,090 --> 00:22:54,949
hearing after the legislature has

629
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:55,950
adjourned.

630
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:58,829
So we're coming back from vacation

631
00:22:58,830 --> 00:23:01,289
just to be able to talk to you guys.

632
00:23:01,290 --> 00:23:02,409
So we appreciate that.

633
00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:06,209
The...

634
00:23:06,210 --> 00:23:08,409
Specifics of

635
00:23:08,410 --> 00:23:10,689
what happened with

636
00:23:10,690 --> 00:23:12,549
President Rothman and

637
00:23:12,550 --> 00:23:14,969
the negotiations that happened in

638
00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:16,369
terms of his employment.

639
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:19,929
Did those happen in

640
00:23:19,930 --> 00:23:21,849
open session or were those

641
00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:23,519
in closed session?

642
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,299
Those were in closed session and

643
00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:28,819
we had a lot of dialog and

644
00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:31,119
this was never taken lightly.

645
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,199
Again, we have a fiduciary

646
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,959
duty to the University of Wisconsin

647
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,779
and the people that it

648
00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:38,039
serves.

649
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,979
This was not a light

650
00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:40,939
decision.

651
00:23:40,940 --> 00:23:42,859
We had many discussions in

652
00:23:42,860 --> 00:23:44,400
closed regarding this issue.

653
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,619
Let's counsel.

654
00:23:47,940 --> 00:23:50,819
What does the law say about

655
00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:52,699
leaking information that

656
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:54,619
happens within a closed session

657
00:23:54,620 --> 00:23:56,739
in terms

658
00:23:56,740 --> 00:23:57,740
of employment?

659
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,239
I'd have to research that.

660
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,399
I'm not exactly sure what you're

661
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:03,859
talking about in this case, but I

662
00:24:03,860 --> 00:24:05,260
can find out.

663
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,399
I can tell you what the open records

664
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,319
law says, but

665
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,739
I don't

666
00:24:13,740 --> 00:24:16,059
know exactly what

667
00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:17,819
the nature of the question is.

668
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:19,099
I probably want to look into it

669
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:19,249
more.

670
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:21,309
Yeah, I'm just curious,

671
00:24:21,310 --> 00:24:23,749
if the

672
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:25,889
regents, as they're here before us,

673
00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:27,469
started to talk openly about things

674
00:24:27,470 --> 00:24:29,269
that happened in closed session,

675
00:24:29,270 --> 00:24:31,349
would that open the university

676
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:33,349
up to

677
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:34,350
legal liability?

678
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,099
I don't know what they know,

679
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:40,180
so possibly.

680
00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:43,319
If there was...

681
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,359
That's a possibility for sure.

682
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:46,360
It is a possibility.

683
00:24:47,260 --> 00:24:48,919
So there is a possibility of a

684
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,919
lawsuit if they violate

685
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,019
the closed session

686
00:24:53,020 --> 00:24:54,959
understanding of what was discussed

687
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,099
in the personal matter that is not

688
00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:58,979
public and the person has not

689
00:24:58,980 --> 00:25:02,999
waived their

690
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,440
confidentiality agreement.

691
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,159
Question, I'm sure others

692
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:10,859
have questions, we do.

693
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:13,059
My last one to you is did

694
00:25:13,060 --> 00:25:15,259
President Rothman ever threaten

695
00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:16,649
to resign?

696
00:25:16,650 --> 00:25:17,909
Many times.

697
00:25:17,910 --> 00:25:19,809
He had told us many times that

698
00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:21,469
if he did not have the confidence of

699
00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:23,669
the board, he would resign.

700
00:25:23,670 --> 00:25:25,109
And I think that was a public

701
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:27,209
statement a few years ago, and

702
00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:28,469
I know he's told that to other

703
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:29,670
constituencies as well.

704
00:25:35,710 --> 00:25:37,459
So you're welcome, we're on.

705
00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:39,199
Yeah, thank you.

706
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,799
I just want to make very clear that

707
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,380
I'm not on vacation.

708
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,299
Even though that this has been

709
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:47,859
viewed as coming back from vacation,

710
00:25:47,860 --> 00:25:48,899
I don't think that's the case.

711
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:50,199
I think that it's important that if

712
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,459
any committee comes into this

713
00:25:51,460 --> 00:25:53,099
session here that or is presented

714
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:54,979
that, we come and we do what we've

715
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:55,980
been elected to do.

716
00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:58,719
So I don't got no tan going

717
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,140
on, sir. I'm still working.

718
00:26:01,150 --> 00:26:03,049
My interest here is

719
00:26:03,050 --> 00:26:04,949
not only to

720
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:07,289
question what happened,

721
00:26:07,290 --> 00:26:08,969
but my interest in it is not

722
00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:09,869
political.

723
00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:11,449
It is solely because obviously

724
00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:12,450
there's an issue,

725
00:26:13,550 --> 00:26:15,049
and I'm assuming it's not just about

726
00:26:15,050 --> 00:26:16,509
him, it's about a larger picture

727
00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:18,049
here of things that need to be

728
00:26:18,050 --> 00:26:20,109
addressed. So as I sat here today

729
00:26:20,110 --> 00:26:21,489
and have been looking at this over

730
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:23,269
the news, my question is, okay,

731
00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:24,129
what's the issue?

732
00:26:24,130 --> 00:26:25,669
Why is he not meeting those needs,

733
00:26:25,670 --> 00:26:27,769
and how are we going to fix this?

734
00:26:27,770 --> 00:26:29,749
For the next person coming up or

735
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:32,049
for the university as a whole?

736
00:26:32,050 --> 00:26:33,709
In my mind, the one thing that pops

737
00:26:33,710 --> 00:26:35,369
in is decreased enrollment, right?

738
00:26:35,370 --> 00:26:37,769
I'm sitting here and thinking, okay,

739
00:26:37,770 --> 00:26:38,849
maybe that's the issue.

740
00:26:38,850 --> 00:26:40,309
Maybe they've lost confidence in the

741
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:41,369
fact that there's decreased

742
00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:43,209
enrollment. What is the solutions to

743
00:26:43,210 --> 00:26:44,909
that? Or is there a different

744
00:26:44,910 --> 00:26:46,789
reason? So as I've heard a

745
00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:48,449
lot of people call me and contact me

746
00:26:48,450 --> 00:26:50,349
and hearing some comments today,

747
00:26:50,350 --> 00:26:51,989
this isn't just a political issue.

748
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:53,969
This is in no way in my

749
00:26:53,970 --> 00:26:54,829
opinion.

750
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:56,849
The focus, the focus is what

751
00:26:56,850 --> 00:26:57,969
are the issues that need to be

752
00:26:57,970 --> 00:26:59,089
addressed, how are they going to be

753
00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:00,609
solved, and how can we continue to

754
00:27:00,610 --> 00:27:02,709
make the UW system great as a whole,

755
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:03,710
right?

756
00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:06,389
So for me, it is much bigger

757
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:08,389
than what is being presented in

758
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:10,229
this room right now in

759
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:11,230
here today. Okay.

760
00:27:15,220 --> 00:27:16,059
Thank you.

761
00:27:16,060 --> 00:27:17,799
Thank you for that question.

762
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,519
That was a part of my testimony.

763
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,259
I hadn't read because I didn't want

764
00:27:21,260 --> 00:27:22,739
to get into the hooties.

765
00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:24,599
But you have asked, and I have an

766
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,439
answer for you.

767
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,240
This is about the future.

768
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,199
I already gave you

769
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,999
one question.

770
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,939
Why are not we one of the

771
00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:38,759
top innovative, at least in the

772
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,619
top 50 innovative schools in the

773
00:27:40,620 --> 00:27:41,579
United States?

774
00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:44,019
Because we're not being innovative.

775
00:27:44,020 --> 00:27:45,859
In the ways of dealing

776
00:27:45,860 --> 00:27:47,719
with the issues that you've raised,

777
00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:50,279
the drop-offs.

778
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,279
We've authorized

779
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,459
90-credit

780
00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:56,539
bachelor's degrees.

781
00:27:56,540 --> 00:27:58,199
We haven't seen any proposal yet.

782
00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,419
We need to be talking about

783
00:27:59,420 --> 00:28:00,219
certificates.

784
00:28:00,220 --> 00:28:02,839
We need be talking non-traditional

785
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,539
students. We need to be talking

786
00:28:04,540 --> 00:28:06,669
about educating

787
00:28:06,670 --> 00:28:08,709
people from kindergarten through

788
00:28:08,710 --> 00:28:11,169
their adult life not necessarily

789
00:28:11,170 --> 00:28:12,989
in the silos that have

790
00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:15,249
been built and existed historically.

791
00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:17,089
That's a big issue,

792
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:19,289
but let me give you a specific that

793
00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:22,389
has been bothering me.

794
00:28:22,390 --> 00:28:24,249
Why does the

795
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:26,129
University of Wisconsin system

796
00:28:26,130 --> 00:28:28,049
bureaucracy have

797
00:28:28,050 --> 00:28:29,869
579

798
00:28:29,870 --> 00:28:31,889
employees for a

799
00:28:31,890 --> 00:28:34,129
13-school system when

800
00:28:34,130 --> 00:28:36,669
the technical college has 50

801
00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:39,649
for a 16-school system?

802
00:28:39,650 --> 00:28:41,509
That's a great question, isn't

803
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:43,069
it? And I'm on the technical college

804
00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:44,189
board. By the way, they could use a

805
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:45,469
few more people than those 50.

806
00:28:45,470 --> 00:28:46,789
I just want to tell you that's

807
00:28:46,790 --> 00:28:47,969
really mean for them.

808
00:28:47,970 --> 00:28:48,970
I'm on both boards.

809
00:28:49,930 --> 00:28:52,189
Since last November,

810
00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:53,729
I have in particular,

811
00:28:57,970 --> 00:28:58,970
this has been my justification.

812
00:29:01,410 --> 00:29:03,009
I just don't see the difference.

813
00:29:03,010 --> 00:29:05,029
When you look at other systems,

814
00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:07,109
they don't have this many people,

815
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:08,189
okay?

816
00:29:08,190 --> 00:29:09,849
These people do good work.

817
00:29:09,850 --> 00:29:11,609
I don't want to insinuate that

818
00:29:11,610 --> 00:29:12,849
they're lazy, that they are not

819
00:29:12,850 --> 00:29:14,749
doing good work, but in my

820
00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:17,149
view, they are better off

821
00:29:17,150 --> 00:29:19,469
reassigned, or the resources

822
00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:21,489
used at campuses where

823
00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:23,410
we actually educate people.

824
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,259
President Rothman has not

825
00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:29,119
provided an answer to me

826
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,479
since November.

827
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,459
The only thing we've done is had a

828
00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:34,039
meeting where they all told us about

829
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,499
all the good things they're doing.

830
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:39,339
Don't dispute that, but why 579?

831
00:29:39,340 --> 00:29:40,519
Can't we cut that?

832
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,039
Maybe that's the right number, okay?

833
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,879
He's not justified it to me.

834
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,899
But I think we

835
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:48,579
ought to take some of those people

836
00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:50,819
and move them on campuses

837
00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:52,879
where we actually educate

838
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,029
people.

839
00:29:54,030 --> 00:29:56,209
And he has

840
00:29:56,210 --> 00:29:58,069
not been on

841
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:59,750
board with moving that along.

842
00:30:04,020 --> 00:30:05,899
Well, I was just going to

843
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:07,119
say thank you for providing a

844
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,939
specific example rather than

845
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:10,919
some gray zone where we just kind of

846
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,839
jump around the issue.

847
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,959
I mean, these are the things that,

848
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,899
you know,

849
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:16,789
thank you.

850
00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:18,769
They scare me while I wait in

851
00:30:18,770 --> 00:30:19,770
line.

852
00:30:21,070 --> 00:30:22,070
Oh,

853
00:30:22,890 --> 00:30:23,869
would you like to comment on that,

854
00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:24,649
otherwise I do have another

855
00:30:24,650 --> 00:30:25,589
question.

856
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:27,169
My other question was, you talked in

857
00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:28,529
here about him waiving his rights

858
00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:30,449
for confidentiality and so forth.

859
00:30:30,450 --> 00:30:31,429
I mean, is that some written

860
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:33,589
agreement that was somewhere that

861
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:35,389
both of you had signed upon

862
00:30:35,390 --> 00:30:37,209
employment or something that, or

863
00:30:37,210 --> 00:30:38,769
in this particular situation?

864
00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:40,589
I mean, is there

865
00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:42,529
something that was

866
00:30:42,530 --> 00:30:42,969
legally?

867
00:30:42,970 --> 00:30:44,949
Personnel matters by

868
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:46,829
law and definition

869
00:30:46,830 --> 00:30:48,749
are confidential.

870
00:30:48,750 --> 00:30:50,089
And that's why when we talk about

871
00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:51,669
personnel matters, we go into closed

872
00:30:51,670 --> 00:30:52,749
session.

873
00:30:52,750 --> 00:30:54,729
And so it is not our ability to

874
00:30:54,730 --> 00:30:56,729
waive it, and Vice of

875
00:30:56,730 --> 00:30:58,589
Council as well, we are

876
00:30:58,590 --> 00:31:00,449
not able to do that.

877
00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:03,089
It is his to wave,

878
00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:05,369
it's his confidentiality,

879
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:07,189
and he has to waave it before we're

880
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:08,489
able to say something legally.

881
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:11,649
Let me add that

882
00:31:11,650 --> 00:31:13,549
I want to emphasize this

883
00:31:13,550 --> 00:31:15,649
has been the UW

884
00:31:15,650 --> 00:31:17,169
practice.

885
00:31:17,170 --> 00:31:18,989
At least as far back as

886
00:31:18,990 --> 00:31:20,469
Governor Thompson was president.

887
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:22,289
I'm not commenting on the wisdom of

888
00:31:22,290 --> 00:31:24,229
it. I am merely stating that

889
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:26,149
requesting people to

890
00:31:26,150 --> 00:31:28,009
leave their job under

891
00:31:28,010 --> 00:31:29,849
friendly, quiet circumstances

892
00:31:29,850 --> 00:31:31,809
is the way UW has

893
00:31:31,810 --> 00:31:33,629
been doing this and the way

894
00:31:33,630 --> 00:31:35,349
President Rothman actually did it.

895
00:31:35,350 --> 00:31:36,889
Again, if you want specific

896
00:31:36,890 --> 00:31:38,869
examples, I think somebody leaked

897
00:31:38,870 --> 00:31:40,769
the public record anyway,

898
00:31:40,770 --> 00:31:43,029
correspondence to Politico

899
00:31:43,030 --> 00:31:44,989
from Mr. James

900
00:31:44,990 --> 00:31:47,419
Larson Langdon,

901
00:31:47,420 --> 00:31:50,279
sorry, I

902
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,079
get a hold, have patience with the

903
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,540
other hands, I'm 68,

904
00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:57,399
that this is exactly

905
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,319
the way President Rothman let

906
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,599
him go with exactly

907
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,559
the same no information

908
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:04,759
response.

909
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,759
Now this is, I am going to tell you,

910
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,140
this is the way it has been done.

911
00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:11,509
I'm not commenting on what I think

912
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:12,649
of that. I might have an opinion

913
00:32:12,650 --> 00:32:14,549
these days, but it's just the

914
00:32:14,550 --> 00:32:15,689
way UW did it.

915
00:32:15,690 --> 00:32:17,509
And one other thing, as a lawyer,

916
00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:18,889
and you're getting me for free today

917
00:32:18,890 --> 00:32:20,709
like you do every day, so this is a

918
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:22,029
really good deal for the state of

919
00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:23,109
Wisconsin.

920
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:25,229
When you have an at-will

921
00:32:25,230 --> 00:32:27,410
or a probationary employee,

922
00:32:28,570 --> 00:32:30,529
the general recommendation is

923
00:32:30,530 --> 00:32:32,589
you never give them a reason

924
00:32:32,590 --> 00:32:34,829
for terminating.

925
00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:37,979
The relationship, because

926
00:32:37,980 --> 00:32:39,959
all that would do is raise

927
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,400
the potential for a lawsuit.

928
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,499
You, at will, you just let them

929
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:45,500
go.

930
00:32:46,159 --> 00:32:47,979
The probationary, you just let them

931
00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:49,339
go. Because if you tell them

932
00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:51,059
anything, and we all know how

933
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:52,939
lawsuits work, truth, no

934
00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:54,639
truth, eh, it doesn't much matter.

935
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,819
There are lawsuits.

936
00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:57,459
You don't do this even in the

937
00:32:57,460 --> 00:32:59,019
private sector with those two kinds

938
00:32:59,020 --> 00:33:00,879
of employees. And I'm a lawyer, I

939
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,880
apologize.

940
00:33:02,940 --> 00:33:04,799
So this is the advice I would have

941
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,599
given my own clients, in addition

942
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,459
for large corporations that

943
00:33:09,460 --> 00:33:10,909
are very public.

944
00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:13,149
This is the way you usually

945
00:33:13,150 --> 00:33:15,829
edge out CEOs,

946
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:17,589
okay? Because you don't want to

947
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:19,569
damage, in that case, the brand

948
00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:22,109
whatever you're selling, okay.

949
00:33:22,110 --> 00:33:23,949
So you try not to have

950
00:33:23,950 --> 00:33:26,289
these public blow ups,

951
00:33:26,290 --> 00:33:28,209
all right? And so...

952
00:33:28,210 --> 00:33:30,129
There's nothing here in my

953
00:33:30,130 --> 00:33:31,989
mind, from my experience,

954
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:33,929
that's unusual, and not only that,

955
00:33:33,930 --> 00:33:35,869
it follows UW practice.

956
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:37,929
Now, whether that practice

957
00:33:37,930 --> 00:33:39,769
is appropriate for a public

958
00:33:39,770 --> 00:33:41,729
institution, I'm not commenting on

959
00:33:41,730 --> 00:33:43,710
that, I am merely reporting a fact.

960
00:33:47,970 --> 00:33:50,469
I appreciate the testimony,

961
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:51,889
especially Regent Nixon, regarding

962
00:33:51,890 --> 00:33:54,829
that. It is a little

963
00:33:54,830 --> 00:33:57,189
surprising to me admittedly

964
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:59,089
to hear from the

965
00:33:59,090 --> 00:34:01,429
Board of Regents who

966
00:34:01,430 --> 00:34:03,329
are eagerly,

967
00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:05,429
eagerly pushing for significant

968
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:07,829
reforms in the system.

969
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:10,468
Because I would argue going back

970
00:34:10,469 --> 00:34:12,729
quite a few years, the

971
00:34:12,730 --> 00:34:14,829
Regents have been viewed as the

972
00:34:14,830 --> 00:34:17,388
gatekeepers for the status quo.

973
00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:18,549
So if you're telling there's a new

974
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:20,509
revelation within the

975
00:34:20,510 --> 00:34:22,649
Board of Regents that says

976
00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:24,709
the President isn't acting

977
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:26,569
quick enough in terms of

978
00:34:26,570 --> 00:34:27,709
significant reforms and

979
00:34:27,710 --> 00:34:28,710
efficiencies.

980
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:32,029
That is a surprising B,

981
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:33,948
encouraging, and we'd love to

982
00:34:33,949 --> 00:34:35,908
hear a little bit more context as to

983
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:37,769
how that is the the new face

984
00:34:37,770 --> 00:34:39,809
of the regions that somehow,

985
00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:40,810
in this case...

986
00:34:42,370 --> 00:34:44,369
Then-president Rothman wasn't

987
00:34:44,370 --> 00:34:46,529
on board with or keeping pace

988
00:34:46,530 --> 00:34:49,029
with in terms of the reforms that

989
00:34:49,030 --> 00:34:50,888
either you all were pushing or

990
00:34:50,889 --> 00:34:53,269
are pushing or that you expected

991
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:55,408
then-President Rothman to be Thank

992
00:34:55,409 --> 00:34:55,968
you very much.

993
00:34:55,969 --> 00:34:57,829
Yes, now let

994
00:34:57,830 --> 00:34:59,649
me just provide a little color

995
00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:00,649
to that.

996
00:35:00,650 --> 00:35:02,889
President Rothman moves

997
00:35:02,890 --> 00:35:04,789
methodically,

998
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:06,309
he moves deliberately,

999
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:09,709
and part of that is he's a corporate

1000
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:11,509
lawyer for fully, they just do that,

1001
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:13,329
I'm a lawyer, okay, so I know how

1002
00:35:13,330 --> 00:35:14,729
they, I understand the thought

1003
00:35:14,730 --> 00:35:15,589
process.

1004
00:35:15,590 --> 00:35:17,589
You don't move until every I is

1005
00:35:17,590 --> 00:35:19,369
dotted, you don't do until every T

1006
00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:21,369
is crossed, you don't move until

1007
00:35:21,370 --> 00:35:22,909
everybody's lined up.

1008
00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:24,769
That takes six months to a year

1009
00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:27,649
to do that in anything.

1010
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:29,349
The major difference between

1011
00:35:29,350 --> 00:35:31,619
President Rock and I And

1012
00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:32,919
even after everything that's

1013
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,339
happened, I still like the guy.

1014
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:36,279
OK, let's just be blunt about that.

1015
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,340
I do not dislike him.

1016
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,559
Is I always sensed

1017
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,839
a lack of urgency on

1018
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,839
some of these issues, which to

1019
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,839
me looked like they're pressing on

1020
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,879
these universities today.

1021
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,899
And an answer a year from now or

1022
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:53,839
two years from now is not

1023
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,019
going to be good enough.

1024
00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:56,419
President Rockman never.

1025
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:57,470
Thank you for joining us. We'll see
you next time.

1026
00:35:57,720 --> 00:35:59,679
To his credit, doesn't

1027
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,799
want to upset either

1028
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,379
the legislature, the governor,

1029
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:06,419
or the faculty

1030
00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:07,859
or anybody else.

1031
00:36:07,860 --> 00:36:09,359
Sometimes when you're changing

1032
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,339
things, that's

1033
00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:12,699
kind of a necessity.

1034
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:15,179
I mean, I don't want back

1035
00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:16,139
you guys off. I've got

1036
00:36:16,140 --> 00:36:17,360
administrative law for you.

1037
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,679
I taught him administrative law for

1038
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,039
23 years.

1039
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,699
One of the things I told, and I

1040
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:25,239
repeated, even said this at the

1041
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,059
Board of Regents several times, we

1042
00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:29,039
are not elected officials.

1043
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:30,999
You are the elected officials,

1044
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,199
the governor is the elected

1045
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,219
official.

1046
00:36:33,220 --> 00:36:35,039
We do our job, but

1047
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,099
we do it subject to your oversight

1048
00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:38,439
and direction.

1049
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,619
Act 15 is a good example.

1050
00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:42,619
You saw that we followed the law,

1051
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:44,659
and I would quote you what I said to

1052
00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:46,519
people who were not as

1053
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,939
happy as they could be.

1054
00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:50,459
I said, this is a law passed

1055
00:36:50,460 --> 00:36:52,419
by a Republican legislature

1056
00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:54,519
signed by a Democratic governor.

1057
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,599
This is the law.

1058
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,559
And we don't care if you like it

1059
00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,859
or not.

1060
00:36:59,860 --> 00:37:01,499
That's pretty irrelevant to us, and

1061
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:02,839
that was directed at certain people

1062
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,799
at the university who thought it was

1063
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,759
inappropriate. My point was,

1064
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,199
it doesn't matter what you think the

1065
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,219
elected officials are saying.

1066
00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:13,129
I just want

1067
00:37:13,130 --> 00:37:14,269
to add to that.

1068
00:37:14,270 --> 00:37:16,050
I just wanted to be clear.

1069
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:20,129
Mr. Rothman, we are

1070
00:37:20,130 --> 00:37:22,129
very pleased in what he has done to

1071
00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:23,249
this moment.

1072
00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:25,029
There are many difficult things that

1073
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:27,089
we went through as a board,

1074
00:37:27,090 --> 00:37:29,729
and we are aligned with Mr.Rothman.

1075
00:37:29,730 --> 00:37:31,309
Many difficult things.

1076
00:37:31,310 --> 00:37:34,029
And change happens at

1077
00:37:34,030 --> 00:37:36,949
a snail's pace in any institution.

1078
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:39,009
Unfortunately, the industry of

1079
00:37:39,010 --> 00:37:40,489
higher education is a very

1080
00:37:40,490 --> 00:37:42,269
antiquated system.

1081
00:37:42,270 --> 00:37:44,969
Working within those systems

1082
00:37:44,970 --> 00:37:47,409
is very difficult to make change.

1083
00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:49,209
And I think right now we're kind of

1084
00:37:49,210 --> 00:37:50,909
at a precipice in higher education.

1085
00:37:50,910 --> 00:37:52,709
You mentioned the demographic slide

1086
00:37:52,710 --> 00:37:54,809
and the pressures are coming down

1087
00:37:54,810 --> 00:37:55,809
hard on us.

1088
00:37:55,810 --> 00:37:57,629
This narrative that higher education

1089
00:37:57,630 --> 00:37:59,329
isn't necessary.

1090
00:37:59,330 --> 00:38:01,309
It is, part of this

1091
00:38:01,310 --> 00:38:02,829
decision is that we need a

1092
00:38:02,830 --> 00:38:04,729
transformative leader and

1093
00:38:04,730 --> 00:38:06,489
that we have to really take this

1094
00:38:06,490 --> 00:38:08,249
into the future, which is to me

1095
00:38:08,250 --> 00:38:09,669
yesterday, right?

1096
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:11,829
I mean, we have pressures of AI,

1097
00:38:11,830 --> 00:38:13,709
we had the, you know, this

1098
00:38:13,710 --> 00:38:15,329
narrative that I don't know, I'm

1099
00:38:15,330 --> 00:38:16,369
probably going to get my statistics

1100
00:38:16,370 --> 00:38:18,369
wrong, but 76%

1101
00:38:18,370 --> 00:38:20,589
of the public doesn't want AI.

1102
00:38:20,590 --> 00:38:21,809
They're terrified.

1103
00:38:21,810 --> 00:38:23,849
Well, even now, more than ever,

1104
00:38:23,850 --> 00:38:26,149
we need people in our institutions.

1105
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:27,849
We need people that have critical

1106
00:38:27,850 --> 00:38:29,969
thinking skills that understand AI

1107
00:38:29,970 --> 00:38:32,069
because we as humans need

1108
00:38:32,070 --> 00:38:33,609
to control the machine, not the

1109
00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:34,539
other way around.

1110
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:36,459
So, there's many pressures that

1111
00:38:36,460 --> 00:38:38,379
we are feeling as a board,

1112
00:38:38,380 --> 00:38:40,359
as an institution, where we like

1113
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,199
to have and work well together

1114
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,179
with that leader that can bring us

1115
00:38:44,180 --> 00:38:45,099
into the future.

1116
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:46,939
And I do not want to diminish all

1117
00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:48,399
the wonderful things that Mr.

1118
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,599
Rothman has done.

1119
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,519
And he has done great service

1120
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,279
to the universities and the

1121
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:54,259
universities of Wisconsin.

1122
00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:56,199
So, I do want that

1123
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,479
to be our

1124
00:38:58,480 --> 00:38:59,279
thought process here.

1125
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,139
That's not what it is,

1126
00:39:01,140 --> 00:39:02,109
so.

1127
00:39:02,110 --> 00:39:04,149
Mr. Chair, I would like, I

1128
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:06,109
had removed a number of my remarks,

1129
00:39:06,110 --> 00:39:08,229
but in light of the senator's

1130
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:09,629
question, I want to bring up another

1131
00:39:09,630 --> 00:39:10,709
one.

1132
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:13,269
There is no regent's

1133
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:15,509
guidelines or guardrails

1134
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:16,630
on AI.

1135
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,799
AI is a lot of

1136
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,919
smoke and noise, and good things

1137
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,059
in the university, but there

1138
00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:25,899
are no guidelines or

1139
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:27,279
guardrails.

1140
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,139
President Rothman has blocked those

1141
00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:31,039
since November, and this is another

1142
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,739
one of my courses.

1143
00:39:32,740 --> 00:39:34,499
We've got to speak.

1144
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:35,699
We've gotta say something.

1145
00:39:35,700 --> 00:39:37,519
We need an

1146
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,219
articulated Wisconsin

1147
00:39:40,220 --> 00:39:43,179
Board of Regents Wisconsin.

1148
00:39:43,180 --> 00:39:44,999
AI guidelines, not one

1149
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,199
crafted by Silicon Valley through

1150
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,519
negligence or neglect.

1151
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,119
Okay, we need to do this the

1152
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,739
Wisconsin way.

1153
00:39:52,740 --> 00:39:54,419
And we have, this has not been

1154
00:39:54,420 --> 00:39:56,279
brought to us, we've been asking for

1155
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:57,399
it since November.

1156
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,399
We're studying it, we got

1157
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,539
lots of committees in that system

1158
00:40:01,540 --> 00:40:02,779
studying it and they're not doing a

1159
00:40:02,780 --> 00:40:03,859
bad job.

1160
00:40:03,860 --> 00:40:05,799
Just will not bring it forward to

1161
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:06,809
us.

1162
00:40:06,810 --> 00:40:08,729
But overall, I do also want to

1163
00:40:08,730 --> 00:40:10,449
add that I'm very proud of our

1164
00:40:10,450 --> 00:40:12,389
individual universities who do

1165
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:14,349
have wonderful policies and

1166
00:40:14,350 --> 00:40:16,249
guidelines for their campuses.

1167
00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:17,949
They're doing amazing work on the

1168
00:40:17,950 --> 00:40:19,929
campuses, so I don't want to

1169
00:40:19,930 --> 00:40:20,930
lose sight of that.

1170
00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:24,298
Thank you, I appreciate it.

1171
00:40:24,299 --> 00:40:25,820
Information or path.

1172
00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:28,869
Thank you Mr. Chairman.

1173
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:31,109
Thank you both for being here.

1174
00:40:31,110 --> 00:40:32,469
Mr. Nixon, thank you for your

1175
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:34,689
openness and your candor.

1176
00:40:34,690 --> 00:40:36,529
I get in trouble for you.

1177
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:38,589
Me, too. But I'll tell you, I

1178
00:40:38,590 --> 00:40:40,429
appreciate it, because you

1179
00:40:40,430 --> 00:40:42,169
talk about hobby horses.

1180
00:40:42,170 --> 00:40:44,729
This is something that I believe.

1181
00:40:44,730 --> 00:40:46,149
I didn't know the exact number, but

1182
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:48,049
at 579, now I know the

1183
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:50,129
number. I really do believe

1184
00:40:50,130 --> 00:40:52,069
that there can be reform done,

1185
00:40:52,070 --> 00:40:53,929
and I strongly support

1186
00:40:53,930 --> 00:40:56,449
not just our

1187
00:40:56,450 --> 00:40:58,169
planning University here in Addison,

1188
00:40:58,170 --> 00:40:59,389
I'm very proud of our regional

1189
00:40:59,390 --> 00:41:01,489
comprehensive that we have.

1190
00:41:01,490 --> 00:41:02,949
So I look forward to continuing to

1191
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:06,269
work with you and

1192
00:41:06,270 --> 00:41:08,449
the President in regards

1193
00:41:08,450 --> 00:41:10,609
to moving forward on this.

1194
00:41:10,610 --> 00:41:12,549
But my follow-up

1195
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:14,809
question is to

1196
00:41:14,810 --> 00:41:18,009
the Board President.

1197
00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:19,630
Thank you for your testimony.

1198
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,759
And I appreciate your

1199
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,839
candor, but you

1200
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,579
write this.

1201
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:29,879
If Mr. Walkman genuinely wants

1202
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,579
this committee and the public to

1203
00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:33,419
understand what happened,

1204
00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:35,519
there is a straightforward path.

1205
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,399
He can waive his

1206
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:38,400
confidentiality.

1207
00:41:39,980 --> 00:41:40,839
Absolutely.

1208
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,539
Why hasn't he done that?

1209
00:41:42,540 --> 00:41:44,379
He seems to be talking a lot.

1210
00:41:44,380 --> 00:41:46,239
Why has he not waived

1211
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:47,240
his confidential?

1212
00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:51,219
I believe that his

1213
00:41:51,220 --> 00:41:52,839
objective is to be able to get his

1214
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,339
narrative out and be one-sided.

1215
00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:56,539
I mean, he knows that I cannot

1216
00:41:56,540 --> 00:41:57,619
regret what he's saying.

1217
00:41:57,620 --> 00:41:59,499
He knows, and he does know the

1218
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:01,879
truth. He knows the truth and

1219
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,819
he understands what this is

1220
00:42:03,820 --> 00:42:05,279
all about.

1221
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,279
And we were hoping that

1222
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,599
he would move on and we could

1223
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,559
celebrate all his great

1224
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,179
accomplishments.

1225
00:42:11,180 --> 00:42:12,819
That, I think, was going to be the

1226
00:42:12,820 --> 00:42:14,699
best path forward for the

1227
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:15,569
universities.

1228
00:42:15,570 --> 00:42:17,729
I mean, to do

1229
00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:19,649
the media circuit

1230
00:42:19,650 --> 00:42:20,769
that he's on

1231
00:42:21,810 --> 00:42:23,329
denigrates our wonderful

1232
00:42:23,330 --> 00:42:24,129
universities.

1233
00:42:24,130 --> 00:42:26,048
And that makes me really sad

1234
00:42:26,049 --> 00:42:27,569
because I know that he worked

1235
00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:29,849
tirelessly for the universities

1236
00:42:29,850 --> 00:42:31,909
and I really was

1237
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:33,949
hoping to celebrate his past

1238
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:34,859
accomplishments.

1239
00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:36,759
And keep that stability

1240
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,639
which was so needed for the

1241
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,959
universities and to celebrate him

1242
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,099
and the campuses and all

1243
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:44,939
the hard work that these people

1244
00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:46,579
come to work every day.

1245
00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:48,319
We're here for the students.

1246
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,599
We're over the people that we serve,

1247
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,919
the students in the state and

1248
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,619
it's unfortunate that he's taking

1249
00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:55,620
that path.

1250
00:42:57,530 --> 00:43:00,269
One follow-up question,

1251
00:43:00,270 --> 00:43:02,329
I read in the news media

1252
00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:04,789
that it

1253
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:07,869
was given an opportunity to

1254
00:43:07,870 --> 00:43:09,589
retire at the end of this calendar

1255
00:43:09,590 --> 00:43:10,669
year.

1256
00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:11,959
Is that correct?

1257
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,059
He was given an opportunity to

1258
00:43:14,060 --> 00:43:16,599
resign at the end of the year and

1259
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,679
it was a nice runway for him

1260
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,959
to be able to go out,

1261
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,219
finish a few loose ends

1262
00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:25,459
and celebrate him

1263
00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:27,419
and visit all the

1264
00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:29,299
campuses and celebrate

1265
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:31,179
the fact that he has accomplished

1266
00:43:31,180 --> 00:43:33,119
many things in his tenure.

1267
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:34,819
I mean, if you look around this

1268
00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:36,779
country, these jobs

1269
00:43:36,780 --> 00:43:38,719
right now are so

1270
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:39,679
difficult.

1271
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,919
They don't have a long shelf life.

1272
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,019
Things are moving so quickly and

1273
00:43:44,020 --> 00:43:45,999
so fast, we have to be

1274
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:46,879
nimble.

1275
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,799
And so I wanted to

1276
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,959
give him that opportunity

1277
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,039
and have him be able to celebrate

1278
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,219
and the board to stay steady

1279
00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:57,179
and focused on what comes next.

1280
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,479
So he chose not to do that.

1281
00:44:01,930 --> 00:44:03,690
You know what I'm going to say.

1282
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:07,009
Just so you don't think that we walk

1283
00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:09,909
in lockstep and do whatever,

1284
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:11,989
I was not in favor of the 18 months.

1285
00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:16,029
I was in favor to

1286
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:17,689
run late, but not that long.

1287
00:44:17,690 --> 00:44:19,569
However, this is our president.

1288
00:44:19,570 --> 00:44:21,569
She made that decision, and that's

1289
00:44:21,570 --> 00:44:22,509
what we went with.

1290
00:44:22,510 --> 00:44:23,630
I thought that was too long.

1291
00:44:25,340 --> 00:44:27,159
And then I'll wrap up

1292
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,439
here. I've also heard,

1293
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:30,999
I don't know where I heard or read

1294
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,919
it, that there has been a six

1295
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,099
month summits package

1296
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:37,079
that's been approved.

1297
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,799
That's correct. That's from his

1298
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:39,800
contract.

1299
00:44:44,940 --> 00:44:46,499
Can we just talk about the contract

1300
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:48,539
for a little bit?

1301
00:44:48,540 --> 00:44:50,379
I find it interesting,

1302
00:44:50,380 --> 00:44:51,799
I say this somewhat tongue in cheek,

1303
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,640
but also somewhat genuinely,

1304
00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:56,559
when I look at deployment contracts

1305
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,959
today, the fact that

1306
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,739
I see a contract that is any less

1307
00:45:00,740 --> 00:45:02,879
than 20 pages seems

1308
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,739
quite unusual in the world that

1309
00:45:04,740 --> 00:45:06,659
we now live in, and I

1310
00:45:06,660 --> 00:45:07,779
appreciate all the roles that you

1311
00:45:07,780 --> 00:45:08,780
will play in that.

1312
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:12,159
It did seem a little odd that

1313
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,019
the contract at least we've

1314
00:45:14,020 --> 00:45:16,079
had provided to us is

1315
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,959
as thin as it

1316
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,699
is as relates to the use of paper.

1317
00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:23,159
And curious as to

1318
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,019
what's behind that, why that

1319
00:45:25,020 --> 00:45:26,899
would be the case.

1320
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:28,839
Is there other contractual

1321
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,839
information that is

1322
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,799
an aside from that four page

1323
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:34,719
document and

1324
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:36,180
can you shed a little insight at

1325
00:45:36,181 --> 00:45:37,739
least in the fact that you are both

1326
00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:39,499
attorneys and in this case it is a

1327
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:40,500
personal matter

1328
00:45:41,420 --> 00:45:42,979
that J. Rothman would have been put

1329
00:45:42,980 --> 00:45:44,879
in that position with that

1330
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,019
narrow of a contract.

1331
00:45:47,020 --> 00:45:49,039
Would we do it again?

1332
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,799
Was that done intentionally?

1333
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:51,819
If you could just shed a little bit

1334
00:45:51,820 --> 00:45:53,429
of perspective on that.

1335
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:55,709
I can start, and I'm sure Mr.

1336
00:45:55,710 --> 00:45:57,669
Nixon can follow up,

1337
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:59,510
but I can tell you that I,

1338
00:46:00,550 --> 00:46:02,069
the negotiations for the contract is

1339
00:46:02,070 --> 00:46:04,149
very, that contract is standard.

1340
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:05,669
It's been used in the past over and

1341
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:07,549
over again, being at will,

1342
00:46:07,550 --> 00:46:09,529
and, I think, I might be

1343
00:46:09,530 --> 00:46:11,549
wrong, but maybe you can be on this.

1344
00:46:11,550 --> 00:46:13,409
I think the six month is

1345
00:46:13,410 --> 00:46:15,309
by statute that you have to give

1346
00:46:15,310 --> 00:46:17,249
an at will employee,

1347
00:46:17,250 --> 00:46:18,629
and that there's something else in

1348
00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:20,509
there, and if they resign, it's a

1349
00:46:20,510 --> 00:46:22,849
90 day, that's all standard.

1350
00:46:22,850 --> 00:46:24,809
And so it is in

1351
00:46:24,810 --> 00:46:26,869
light, but again,

1352
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:28,789
Mr. Rothman, his whole

1353
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:30,949
attorney life was a transactional

1354
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:31,909
attorney.

1355
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:34,149
So he reviewed the contract and

1356
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:35,969
he had made no changes to

1357
00:46:35,970 --> 00:46:36,949
the contract.

1358
00:46:36,950 --> 00:46:38,629
And again, this was used for all the

1359
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:39,769
prior presidents.

1360
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:42,009
I don't know how far back it goes,

1361
00:46:42,010 --> 00:46:43,289
but absolutely.

1362
00:46:43,290 --> 00:46:45,289
I think it's, you know, perhaps a

1363
00:46:45,290 --> 00:46:47,409
time to look at the

1364
00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:48,729
contract that's been used over and

1365
00:46:48,730 --> 00:46:50,709
over again. But again, Mr.

1366
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:52,729
Rothman accepted it without any

1367
00:46:52,730 --> 00:46:54,589
changes and being a transactional

1368
00:46:54,590 --> 00:46:56,269
attorney at every opportunity to do

1369
00:46:56,270 --> 00:46:57,270
so

1370
00:47:00,279 --> 00:47:02,239
Yeah, I didn't see it until

1371
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:03,559
a little bit ago. I was not on the

1372
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:04,439
board with the contract.

1373
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:05,899
I saw it probably about when you

1374
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:07,839
did. I was astounded at

1375
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,919
the contract, but

1376
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,379
I will go back.

1377
00:47:11,380 --> 00:47:13,399
Jay Rothman is an intelligent

1378
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,699
man and a good lawyer.

1379
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:16,959
Let's just put it like that.

1380
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,019
And he's representing himself there.

1381
00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:20,859
Quite frankly, if I were his lawyer

1382
00:47:20,860 --> 00:47:22,679
and I were doing it, I

1383
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,619
might have had different ideas

1384
00:47:24,620 --> 00:47:26,739
if I were advising him on that

1385
00:47:26,740 --> 00:47:27,740
contract. Bye.

1386
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,519
He is who he is, he chose

1387
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,379
to sign it, and if we struggle

1388
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:33,819
with that, then you say that we want

1389
00:47:33,820 --> 00:47:35,399
him to sign the other contract,

1390
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:36,719
that's not fair.

1391
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,539
But I advised him

1392
00:47:38,540 --> 00:47:40,479
not to sign that contract as

1393
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,319
the president, but he is

1394
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,819
acting as his own lawyer, and he's a

1395
00:47:43,820 --> 00:47:44,619
good lawyer.

1396
00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:45,781
He's a great lawyer, no doubt.

1397
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,759
Thank you. Double perspective,

1398
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,159
so I'll ask you another question.

1399
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,419
Thank you.

1400
00:47:53,420 --> 00:47:55,379
And just to be clear, we're back

1401
00:47:55,380 --> 00:47:56,879
in here taking up the Board of

1402
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,999
Regents appointments while

1403
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,939
there are over 100

1404
00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:02,759
other appointments

1405
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,439
that are outstanding for the Senate

1406
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,099
that have not been taken up for a

1407
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:07,199
full vote.

1408
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:08,879
The Senate adjourned.

1409
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,699
At the end of that, I know in

1410
00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:12,159
my district they're struggling with

1411
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,039
affordability of trying to just make

1412
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,859
ends meet. Housing has not been

1413
00:48:15,860 --> 00:48:17,579
addressed in any way, shape, or

1414
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:19,639
form. We didn't do anything on

1415
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,459
data centers and so it's the Wild

1416
00:48:21,460 --> 00:48:23,299
West where tech companies

1417
00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:25,399
are going at it

1418
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,059
and holding communities to be able

1419
00:48:27,060 --> 00:48:28,519
to get what they want with no

1420
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,699
repercussions.

1421
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:30,899
We haven't done anything on water

1422
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:32,819
law to make sure that we have

1423
00:48:32,820 --> 00:48:34,099
clean water in our state.

1424
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:36,299
The list goes on.

1425
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:37,839
Is there a question to intervene

1426
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:38,839
this?

1427
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,859
Yeah, just that we decided

1428
00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:42,739
that this was it, that this is the

1429
00:48:42,740 --> 00:48:44,359
thing to say let's Let's snap our

1430
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,039
fingers, let's come back in because

1431
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,439
we want to drag

1432
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,279
a few appointments in front

1433
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,979
of us to score political points.

1434
00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:55,019
This seems exactly what it is,

1435
00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:56,999
and frankly, I've

1436
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,039
been here for 15 years fighting

1437
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,479
for our universities.

1438
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,839
I was here when the governor tried

1439
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,699
to repeal the Wisconsin idea

1440
00:49:04,700 --> 00:49:06,219
and say that we're going to shift

1441
00:49:06,220 --> 00:49:08,399
from the search for truth and

1442
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,579
say the borders of our universities

1443
00:49:10,580 --> 00:49:12,839
end at the borders in the state,

1444
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,279
and saying that we are here for the

1445
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,159
enrichment of all, and

1446
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,639
instead say we're gonna focus on

1447
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,659
workforce development, and people

1448
00:49:19,660 --> 00:49:20,939
turned out and said that's not what

1449
00:49:20,940 --> 00:49:21,999
they wanted. We've seen the

1450
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,499
degradation of the university.

1451
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:25,879
We've see the cutting of funds.

1452
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,099
We've the forcing

1453
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:29,919
of tuition freezes

1454
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,659
that are unfunded from the state.

1455
00:49:31,660 --> 00:49:33,519
So therefore, the product that is

1456
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,419
turned out is less than it was

1457
00:49:35,420 --> 00:49:37,319
for students today than it a decade

1458
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,159
ago.

1459
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,359
And I have been fighting for that.

1460
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,379
And I find it curious that now

1461
00:49:42,380 --> 00:49:44,379
we're coming in

1462
00:49:44,380 --> 00:49:45,939
to deal with this.

1463
00:49:45,940 --> 00:49:46,940
In sports.

1464
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,469
We would call this a flop.

1465
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:52,469
If you know the time,

1466
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:54,409
which is that somebody

1467
00:49:54,410 --> 00:49:56,289
is reacting very

1468
00:49:56,290 --> 00:49:58,629
big of, oh my gosh,

1469
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:59,869
I've got fouled.

1470
00:49:59,870 --> 00:50:01,389
And they're looking for a reaction.

1471
00:50:01,390 --> 00:50:03,129
They're looking a foul.

1472
00:50:03,130 --> 00:50:05,249
And it seems that

1473
00:50:05,250 --> 00:50:07,149
the refs have called in

1474
00:50:07,150 --> 00:50:09,189
and are saying, OK,

1475
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:10,289
whistle blown.

1476
00:50:10,290 --> 00:50:11,649
We've got something here.

1477
00:50:11,650 --> 00:50:13,429
And now we're drawn in because of

1478
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:15,689
this flop, because

1479
00:50:15,690 --> 00:50:17,669
the president is protesting

1480
00:50:17,670 --> 00:50:19,489
and saying that, know,

1481
00:50:19,490 --> 00:50:21,329
I am unclear as to what was going

1482
00:50:21,330 --> 00:50:23,249
on and that somehow in all of

1483
00:50:23,250 --> 00:50:25,029
these closed sessions no direction

1484
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:27,109
was, he's claiming no direction

1485
00:50:27,110 --> 00:50:28,909
was given, no criticism was given

1486
00:50:28,910 --> 00:50:31,549
and that nothing, you

1487
00:50:31,550 --> 00:50:33,169
know, would have led him to believe

1488
00:50:33,170 --> 00:50:34,530
that this was ever an option.

1489
00:50:35,710 --> 00:50:37,749
And the other side is unable to

1490
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:39,629
respond to that because he has

1491
00:50:39,630 --> 00:50:41,549
not waived his confidentiality

1492
00:50:41,550 --> 00:50:43,449
agreement in a personnel

1493
00:50:43,450 --> 00:50:44,349
matter.

1494
00:50:44,350 --> 00:50:46,509
And that is the only way

1495
00:50:46,510 --> 00:50:48,309
to go back to the sports metaphor,

1496
00:50:48,310 --> 00:50:49,809
that we can actually check the tape,

1497
00:50:49,810 --> 00:50:51,709
Mr. Chairman, is for him to

1498
00:50:51,710 --> 00:50:53,209
waive his confidential agreement.

1499
00:50:53,210 --> 00:50:55,029
So then we

1500
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:57,849
can check the

1501
00:50:57,850 --> 00:50:59,909
figurative tape and see what

1502
00:50:59,910 --> 00:51:02,568
was actually put before him

1503
00:51:02,569 --> 00:51:04,909
for what his guidance was

1504
00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:06,909
and where that may have

1505
00:51:06,910 --> 00:51:08,829
varied along the way

1506
00:51:08,830 --> 00:51:11,249
in those performance reviews.

1507
00:51:11,250 --> 00:51:12,509
He has not done that.

1508
00:51:12,510 --> 00:51:14,369
And until that happens,

1509
00:51:14,370 --> 00:51:16,389
we are only hearing one side

1510
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:18,729
of this, where we're seeing the

1511
00:51:18,730 --> 00:51:20,409
athlete who is waving his arms and

1512
00:51:20,410 --> 00:51:22,069
saying that this was a huge problem.

1513
00:51:22,070 --> 00:51:23,469
And we could clarify that.

1514
00:51:23,470 --> 00:51:25,269
And until then happens, I don't

1515
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:26,109
know.

1516
00:51:26,110 --> 00:51:26,909
We don't.

1517
00:51:26,910 --> 00:51:28,789
You don't maybe, you

1518
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:30,629
know, we don't exactly

1519
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:32,849
what the terms of agreements were

1520
00:51:32,850 --> 00:51:34,589
that were violated.

1521
00:51:34,590 --> 00:51:35,989
All we can do is speculate.

1522
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:37,329
And frankly,

1523
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:39,610
I personally,

1524
00:51:41,010 --> 00:51:43,169
given what is happening within

1525
00:51:43,170 --> 00:51:44,969
our universities, given I have a

1526
00:51:44,970 --> 00:51:46,849
campus in my district, and

1527
00:51:46,850 --> 00:51:48,369
I talk to my students, I talk my

1528
00:51:48,370 --> 00:51:50,729
faculty, I talked to the neighbors,

1529
00:51:50,730 --> 00:51:52,329
and they are not thrilled.

1530
00:51:52,330 --> 00:51:53,569
They were not thrilled with the

1531
00:51:53,570 --> 00:51:54,909
direction of what the president was

1532
00:51:54,910 --> 00:51:56,869
doing. And I have not

1533
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:59,009
seen many tears shed in

1534
00:51:59,010 --> 00:52:01,249
leaving the teachers

1535
00:52:01,250 --> 00:52:03,629
union AFT put out statement

1536
00:52:03,630 --> 00:52:05,569
saying that they were

1537
00:52:05,570 --> 00:52:06,689
frustrated with some of his

1538
00:52:06,690 --> 00:52:08,709
decisions, I've

1539
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:10,189
heard from students who were very

1540
00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:12,129
frustrated with the attacks on

1541
00:52:12,130 --> 00:52:13,569
diversity, equity, and inclusion

1542
00:52:13,570 --> 00:52:15,749
which matters in my district,

1543
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:18,129
in my campus because it is

1544
00:52:18,130 --> 00:52:20,049
the most diverse campus in the

1545
00:52:20,050 --> 00:52:21,050
state.

1546
00:52:21,630 --> 00:52:23,629
Those issues I have not heard

1547
00:52:23,630 --> 00:52:25,849
him addressing and

1548
00:52:25,850 --> 00:52:27,909
those were a giant area of

1549
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:29,729
criticism. So if we are going

1550
00:52:29,730 --> 00:52:31,910
to get back, Mr. Chairman,

1551
00:52:33,010 --> 00:52:35,209
to what the Wisconsin

1552
00:52:35,210 --> 00:52:37,149
idea is, which

1553
00:52:37,150 --> 00:52:39,029
is the search for the truth,

1554
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:40,589
the only way that we can actually

1555
00:52:40,590 --> 00:52:42,469
get to that is if

1556
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:43,789
the president waives his

1557
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:44,629
confidentiality.

1558
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:46,049
Otherwise, we are standing up for

1559
00:52:46,050 --> 00:52:48,249
something we have no idea

1560
00:52:48,250 --> 00:52:50,009
what it was.

1561
00:52:50,010 --> 00:52:51,369
And there could be things beyond

1562
00:52:51,370 --> 00:52:53,369
that, why my

1563
00:52:53,370 --> 00:52:55,569
mind wanders to reasons other

1564
00:52:55,570 --> 00:52:57,609
folks have been dismissed and we're

1565
00:52:57,610 --> 00:52:59,569
getting large public attention

1566
00:52:59,570 --> 00:53:01,089
for it. We don't know what we're

1567
00:53:01,090 --> 00:53:02,729
wandering into and if that is a

1568
00:53:02,730 --> 00:53:03,749
decision that we're coming back

1569
00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:04,799
into.

1570
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,419
That we're coming back out of

1571
00:53:06,420 --> 00:53:08,659
session instead of addressing all

1572
00:53:08,660 --> 00:53:10,919
of those other issues and frankly

1573
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,039
not addressing what the universities

1574
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,759
are supposed to be doing for our

1575
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,879
students and for the state and

1576
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,340
we're talking about one person.

1577
00:53:20,740 --> 00:53:21,599
Universities are bigger than one

1578
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,739
person and

1579
00:53:23,740 --> 00:53:25,779
so I would ask you

1580
00:53:25,780 --> 00:53:27,699
know do you what do

1581
00:53:27,700 --> 00:53:29,619
you view your service as

1582
00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:31,739
as regents because I

1583
00:53:31,740 --> 00:53:33,659
was surprised to find out what your

1584
00:53:33,660 --> 00:53:35,069
compensation was.

1585
00:53:35,070 --> 00:53:36,949
For this goal, for

1586
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:38,829
your public service, and what do

1587
00:53:38,830 --> 00:53:40,909
you believe the goal of your

1588
00:53:40,910 --> 00:53:42,509
service as regents are?

1589
00:53:42,510 --> 00:53:45,149
Because I believe this is up for

1590
00:53:45,150 --> 00:53:46,509
your appointment.

1591
00:53:46,510 --> 00:53:48,749
Why do you want to serve on

1592
00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:50,469
the Board of Regents?

1593
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:51,470
If you still do.

1594
00:53:52,670 --> 00:53:54,489
Thank you, Senator Larson, we're

1595
00:53:54,490 --> 00:53:56,309
actually here to ask you to double

1596
00:53:56,310 --> 00:53:57,309
our salary.

1597
00:53:57,310 --> 00:53:59,270
Which is...

1598
00:54:01,490 --> 00:54:03,749
I appreciate all that, and

1599
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:05,929
I see this as a distraction from

1600
00:54:05,930 --> 00:54:07,589
the excellent work that we're all

1601
00:54:07,590 --> 00:54:08,389
doing.

1602
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:09,669
I mean, I would love to be here

1603
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:11,849
celebrating the amazing budget that

1604
00:54:11,850 --> 00:54:13,769
Governor Evers and your

1605
00:54:13,770 --> 00:54:15,269
leadership, the Republicans, have

1606
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:17,609
worked tirelessly to get to us.

1607
00:54:17,610 --> 00:54:19,749
I mean it was amazing that

1608
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:21,329
we worked together on that.

1609
00:54:21,330 --> 00:54:22,849
And I know I had a really nice

1610
00:54:22,850 --> 00:54:24,169
conversation with you, Senator

1611
00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:26,169
Hutton, over the weekend, And my

1612
00:54:26,170 --> 00:54:28,169
desire is that we continue forging

1613
00:54:28,170 --> 00:54:30,049
ahead to work hard

1614
00:54:30,050 --> 00:54:31,669
to give the state what it so

1615
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:32,869
deserves.

1616
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:34,869
I always have wanted to work with

1617
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:38,069
both sides,

1618
00:54:38,070 --> 00:54:40,049
the governor, and move

1619
00:54:40,050 --> 00:54:42,399
ahead to what the state needs.

1620
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,479
I mean we have great needs,

1621
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,199
as you said Senator Hutton, the work

1622
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,019
force is dying,

1623
00:54:48,020 --> 00:54:49,779
the needs are great, business

1624
00:54:49,780 --> 00:54:51,779
leaders, both sides of

1625
00:54:51,780 --> 00:54:53,719
the aisle, they appreciate and

1626
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,139
respect the universities and what

1627
00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:57,179
they're trying to accomplish.

1628
00:54:57,180 --> 00:54:59,139
I serve, I am

1629
00:54:59,140 --> 00:55:01,119
so privileged to serve and

1630
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,579
would like to continue to serve to

1631
00:55:03,580 --> 00:55:04,759
really health.

1632
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,759
Work together to bring the

1633
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,259
needs to this state.

1634
00:55:08,260 --> 00:55:09,779
I love Wisconsin.

1635
00:55:09,780 --> 00:55:11,439
It's my home.

1636
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,279
My grandparents came here as

1637
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,319
refugees and could not believe their

1638
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,719
crazy love they got to live here.

1639
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:19,799
And I want us to

1640
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,279
flourish together.

1641
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,199
The divisiveness really breaks my

1642
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,199
heart. We are a board of

1643
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,099
18 independent individuals,

1644
00:55:27,100 --> 00:55:28,559
no matter what the press says about

1645
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,699
us, we all have our own thoughts,

1646
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:32,239
but the one thought that I think

1647
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:34,059
everyone in this room can agree

1648
00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:35,979
to, the University of

1649
00:55:35,980 --> 00:55:37,759
Wisconsin is a crown jewel for this

1650
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:38,919
state.

1651
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,679
We have, I'm sure many of you have

1652
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,499
educated, some have taught at

1653
00:55:42,500 --> 00:55:43,579
the University Wisconsin.

1654
00:55:43,580 --> 00:55:45,119
We cherish it.

1655
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:46,959
And for anything to come

1656
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,219
between that, to not get to distract

1657
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:51,039
it, is really a

1658
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,219
shame. It is a distraction.

1659
00:55:53,220 --> 00:55:55,039
So I know that we continue

1660
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,359
this work together.

1661
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,039
That is my hope for the board.

1662
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,139
It's my hope from myself.

1663
00:56:00,140 --> 00:56:02,059
Believe me, this is not an easy

1664
00:56:02,060 --> 00:56:03,879
thing to do as a volunteer with my

1665
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:04,719
time.

1666
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:06,979
I have a law practice.

1667
00:56:06,980 --> 00:56:08,799
It's very difficult, but it's

1668
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,419
worth every minute for this

1669
00:56:10,420 --> 00:56:12,259
investment into the future

1670
00:56:12,260 --> 00:56:13,279
of our state.

1671
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,339
I mean, it's the economic

1672
00:56:15,340 --> 00:56:16,939
impact of our state.

1673
00:56:16,940 --> 00:56:19,259
So why not all work together,

1674
00:56:19,260 --> 00:56:20,999
what's best for everybody?

1675
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:22,879
And to get our students,

1676
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:25,479
and not just your typical student,

1677
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,459
we have over 800, I think we talked

1678
00:56:27,460 --> 00:56:28,459
about this last time, Senator

1679
00:56:28,460 --> 00:56:31,039
Hutton, we have somewhere around,

1680
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:32,219
and Governor Thompson has spoken

1681
00:56:32,220 --> 00:56:34,239
about this, over 800

1682
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:36,279
thousand students that

1683
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,239
they have dropped out,

1684
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:40,109
they have a lot of credits there.

1685
00:56:40,110 --> 00:56:42,089
Love to get them back into our

1686
00:56:42,090 --> 00:56:43,509
universities to help out, whether

1687
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:45,449
it's with a certificate, some of

1688
00:56:45,450 --> 00:56:47,709
our campuses, some way

1689
00:56:47,710 --> 00:56:49,709
to up their workforce and get

1690
00:56:49,710 --> 00:56:50,789
them in there.

1691
00:56:50,790 --> 00:56:52,729
Veterans, love more veterans.

1692
00:56:52,730 --> 00:56:54,589
There's many people of all different

1693
00:56:54,590 --> 00:56:56,609
walks of life that would really

1694
00:56:56,610 --> 00:56:58,369
have a wonderful opportunity right

1695
00:56:58,370 --> 00:56:59,929
here in their own backyard in all of

1696
00:56:59,930 --> 00:57:01,089
your districts.

1697
00:57:01,090 --> 00:57:03,709
So for me to serve on this board

1698
00:57:03,710 --> 00:57:05,609
is the privilege of lifetime,

1699
00:57:05,610 --> 00:57:07,469
but I am so looking forward to

1700
00:57:07,470 --> 00:57:09,249
cut the divisiveness and work

1701
00:57:09,250 --> 00:57:10,789
together. We all want the same

1702
00:57:10,790 --> 00:57:12,669
thing, so let's do

1703
00:57:12,670 --> 00:57:14,569
it, and let's not have

1704
00:57:14,570 --> 00:57:16,239
this be the distraction.

1705
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,559
So I appreciate that question.

1706
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:19,819
Thank you.

1707
00:57:19,820 --> 00:57:21,639
If I may, I want

1708
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,339
you to know that there are two of us

1709
00:57:23,340 --> 00:57:25,179
here. The meeting was called on 48

1710
00:57:25,180 --> 00:57:27,499
hours notice, all right?

1711
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:28,899
I've been waiting two years.

1712
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:32,019
She's been waiting 26 years,

1713
00:57:32,020 --> 00:57:34,079
okay? So not everybody could

1714
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,039
come on two days notice,

1715
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,279
alright?

1716
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,659
These are real human beings who

1717
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:41,779
have wives, families,

1718
00:57:41,780 --> 00:57:43,899
and jobs, okay,

1719
00:57:43,900 --> 00:57:45,859
so just to pick up and move on two

1720
00:57:45,860 --> 00:57:47,800
day, that's very hard.

1721
00:57:49,900 --> 00:57:51,739
The region job, I don't know

1722
00:57:51,740 --> 00:57:53,419
why anybody wouldn't want it.

1723
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:54,580
You don't get paid.

1724
00:57:55,660 --> 00:57:57,699
Next week, I spent five days

1725
00:57:57,700 --> 00:57:59,619
in Eau Claire, five

1726
00:57:59,620 --> 00:58:01,439
entire days in Auclair.

1727
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,199
Last week, I spent two days

1728
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:04,569
reviewing orders.

1729
00:58:04,570 --> 00:58:06,389
From the student discipline

1730
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:08,149
committee of which I am the chair

1731
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:10,249
because I want to make sure

1732
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:12,309
the students are fairly heard

1733
00:58:12,310 --> 00:58:14,409
I spent two days doing that you

1734
00:58:14,410 --> 00:58:15,709
don't get paid for it.

1735
00:58:15,710 --> 00:58:17,189
However, what do you get?

1736
00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:18,269
Well number of regions have had

1737
00:58:18,270 --> 00:58:20,389
their houses vandalized in

1738
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:21,509
Madison in Milwaukee.

1739
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:23,929
You get that you get protested

1740
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:25,349
I'm surprised when we have meetings.

1741
00:58:25,350 --> 00:58:27,889
We have bomb dogs and

1742
00:58:27,890 --> 00:58:29,809
Police doing checks to

1743
00:58:29,810 --> 00:58:31,569
make nobody wants to do a sin

1744
00:58:31,570 --> 00:58:33,249
because some people do and it was

1745
00:58:33,250 --> 00:58:34,709
last fall I think the guy said he

1746
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:36,169
was gonna show up at two o'clock in

1747
00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:37,589
the afternoon with a rifle and shoot

1748
00:58:37,590 --> 00:58:38,389
us.

1749
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:40,309
So I don't know why anybody wouldn't

1750
00:58:40,310 --> 00:58:41,310
want this job.

1751
00:58:42,910 --> 00:58:45,429
Appreciate the comments from our

1752
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:46,430
two guests.

1753
00:58:47,790 --> 00:58:48,989
I would take a little bit of

1754
00:58:48,990 --> 00:58:50,689
exception in terms of the

1755
00:58:50,690 --> 00:58:52,789
divisiveness for which we

1756
00:58:52,790 --> 00:58:53,790
are operating.

1757
00:58:54,690 --> 00:58:55,929
We deal with the fiduciary duty on

1758
00:58:55,930 --> 00:58:57,769
behalf of the state

1759
00:58:57,770 --> 00:58:59,029
of Wisconsin, and certainly the

1760
00:58:59,030 --> 00:59:01,009
taxpayers, to be

1761
00:59:01,010 --> 00:59:03,009
engaged and be knowledgeable

1762
00:59:03,010 --> 00:59:04,989
and be able to ascertain

1763
00:59:04,990 --> 00:59:06,409
decisions that are made within our

1764
00:59:06,410 --> 00:59:07,409
agencies.

1765
00:59:07,410 --> 00:59:08,509
That's certainly why we're here

1766
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:10,469
today, is to ask the questions and

1767
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:11,689
to gather as much information as we

1768
00:59:11,690 --> 00:59:13,589
can So we have

1769
00:59:13,590 --> 00:59:15,409
a Bible answer for the decisions

1770
00:59:15,410 --> 00:59:16,609
made.

1771
00:59:16,610 --> 00:59:18,929
Right, wrong, or different, but

1772
00:59:18,930 --> 00:59:20,549
that's what we're here in Colton to

1773
00:59:20,550 --> 00:59:21,969
do.

1774
00:59:21,970 --> 00:59:24,169
I would say

1775
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:25,489
to my colleague,

1776
00:59:26,710 --> 00:59:29,009
Senator Larson, that of

1777
00:59:29,010 --> 00:59:30,449
all the reforms that we've worked on

1778
00:59:30,450 --> 00:59:33,169
over the last year and a half,

1779
00:59:33,170 --> 00:59:34,429
I don't recall your name being on

1780
00:59:34,430 --> 00:59:36,209
too many of those reforms in terms

1781
00:59:36,210 --> 00:59:37,929
of transforming what needs to happen

1782
00:59:37,930 --> 00:59:39,749
at UW, and yet

1783
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:41,809
I'm hearing from our two regents

1784
00:59:41,810 --> 00:59:43,349
who have done it today that we need

1785
00:59:43,350 --> 00:59:45,769
significant reforms

1786
00:59:45,770 --> 00:59:48,089
within our UW system, structurally

1787
00:59:48,090 --> 00:59:49,090
and otherwise.

1788
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:51,069
And I think that leads into my

1789
00:59:51,070 --> 00:59:52,130
question with.

1790
01:00:00,051 --> 01:00:01,990
Help maybe all of us in general

1791
01:00:01,991 --> 01:00:04,270
understand the relationship

1792
01:00:04,271 --> 01:00:06,230
between the regents

1793
01:00:06,231 --> 01:00:08,610
and the president in

1794
01:00:08,611 --> 01:00:10,571
terms of the reforms that

1795
01:00:14,161 --> 01:00:16,040
Regent Nixon, you've more so

1796
01:00:16,041 --> 01:00:18,460
alluded to, but

1797
01:00:18,461 --> 01:00:20,320
Madam Chair, you have as well,

1798
01:00:20,321 --> 01:00:23,020
that are just

1799
01:00:23,021 --> 01:00:24,960
nibbling around the edges.

1800
01:00:24,961 --> 01:00:26,840
They're significant in terms

1801
01:00:26,841 --> 01:00:28,660
of what we say needs to

1802
01:00:28,661 --> 01:00:31,180
be happening within UW to,

1803
01:00:31,181 --> 01:00:32,620
at minimum, keep pace with where

1804
01:00:32,621 --> 01:00:34,260
we're going as a.

1805
01:00:36,001 --> 01:00:37,900
Bellwether institution in our

1806
01:00:37,901 --> 01:00:39,921
state and an engine in our state.

1807
01:00:40,961 --> 01:00:42,880
So in the dynamics

1808
01:00:42,881 --> 01:00:45,480
between the administration,

1809
01:00:45,481 --> 01:00:47,460
and I'll throw the governor's

1810
01:00:47,461 --> 01:00:49,500
office in that mix,

1811
01:00:49,501 --> 01:00:51,520
the president of the systems and

1812
01:00:51,521 --> 01:00:52,521
the regions,

1813
01:00:53,341 --> 01:00:55,020
just from an outsider perspective.

1814
01:00:56,841 --> 01:00:59,280
Where and who and how do those

1815
01:00:59,281 --> 01:01:01,320
initiatives, in this

1816
01:01:01,321 --> 01:01:03,640
case significant reforms,

1817
01:01:03,641 --> 01:01:05,760
land on the table, and

1818
01:01:05,761 --> 01:01:07,580
where are the driving forces as

1819
01:01:07,581 --> 01:01:09,420
to what those reforms

1820
01:01:09,421 --> 01:01:11,460
should be, what

1821
01:01:11,461 --> 01:01:13,780
reforms should prioritized,

1822
01:01:13,781 --> 01:01:15,840
and who's going to take the ball in

1823
01:01:15,841 --> 01:01:17,940
one of those reforms to ensure that

1824
01:01:17,941 --> 01:01:18,981
those actually happen.

1825
01:01:21,701 --> 01:01:23,780
Senator, that is

1826
01:01:23,781 --> 01:01:25,180
the question.

1827
01:01:25,181 --> 01:01:27,000
Let me go back to what

1828
01:01:27,001 --> 01:01:28,860
I see the issue as.

1829
01:01:28,861 --> 01:01:31,000
We are 18 people doing

1830
01:01:31,001 --> 01:01:34,240
their very best as volunteers.

1831
01:01:34,241 --> 01:01:36,860
But we functionally

1832
01:01:36,861 --> 01:01:38,860
are captives of

1833
01:01:38,861 --> 01:01:41,100
the UW System Administration

1834
01:01:41,101 --> 01:01:42,620
and the President.

1835
01:01:42,621 --> 01:01:44,520
Because we can ask for

1836
01:01:44,521 --> 01:01:46,800
things, but we can't necessarily

1837
01:01:46,801 --> 01:01:48,800
write them or do them or move them

1838
01:01:48,801 --> 01:01:49,680
along.

1839
01:01:49,681 --> 01:01:51,740
They move them on or not move

1840
01:01:51,741 --> 01:01:52,660
them.

1841
01:01:52,661 --> 01:01:54,800
And I'm going to give

1842
01:01:54,801 --> 01:01:56,760
you a couple examples of things

1843
01:01:56,761 --> 01:01:58,780
that haven't moved along despite

1844
01:01:58,781 --> 01:02:00,280
multiple requests.

1845
01:02:00,281 --> 01:02:01,880
Now I think if President Rothler

1846
01:02:01,881 --> 01:02:03,500
were here, he would say, well, the

1847
01:02:03,501 --> 01:02:05,420
board hasn't as a

1848
01:02:05,421 --> 01:02:08,020
whole told me what it's wanted.

1849
01:02:08,021 --> 01:02:10,100
It's 18 people that meet six times

1850
01:02:10,101 --> 01:02:11,401
a year together.

1851
01:02:13,641 --> 01:02:15,560
Eight times a year, and that

1852
01:02:15,561 --> 01:02:17,460
we do things otherwise, but

1853
01:02:17,461 --> 01:02:18,840
we are not the full-time

1854
01:02:18,841 --> 01:02:20,380
professionals.

1855
01:02:20,381 --> 01:02:22,260
Unfortunately, this would be like

1856
01:02:22,261 --> 01:02:24,260
you taking instruction from the

1857
01:02:24,261 --> 01:02:25,580
secretary of the department of

1858
01:02:25,581 --> 01:02:26,581
administration.

1859
01:02:27,301 --> 01:02:29,240
Okay, think about that for a second.

1860
01:02:29,241 --> 01:02:30,760
Nothing against the secretary of the

1861
01:02:30,761 --> 01:02:31,761
Department of the Administration.
Thank you.

1862
01:02:32,901 --> 01:02:34,820
It makes it very hard.

1863
01:02:34,821 --> 01:02:37,480
That's why the relationship between

1864
01:02:37,481 --> 01:02:39,300
the president and the board has

1865
01:02:39,301 --> 01:02:41,980
to be one of trust, confidence,

1866
01:02:41,981 --> 01:02:43,780
and being able to work together and

1867
01:02:43,781 --> 01:02:45,380
not believing that there are any

1868
01:02:45,381 --> 01:02:46,200
issues.

1869
01:02:46,201 --> 01:02:48,240
Because we are the captive

1870
01:02:48,241 --> 01:02:50,100
of the people that we're

1871
01:02:50,101 --> 01:02:51,821
supposed to be looking at.

1872
01:02:53,041 --> 01:02:54,940
And we would hope in the next

1873
01:02:54,941 --> 01:02:56,780
president that we kind of

1874
01:02:56,781 --> 01:02:57,860
address that.

1875
01:02:57,861 --> 01:02:58,861
President Rothman.

1876
01:02:59,921 --> 01:03:01,780
As a command and control

1877
01:03:01,781 --> 01:03:03,780
kind of management style, which was

1878
01:03:03,781 --> 01:03:05,840
necessary and useful to

1879
01:03:05,841 --> 01:03:07,860
get the budgets balanced and all

1880
01:03:07,861 --> 01:03:08,780
that stuff.

1881
01:03:08,781 --> 01:03:09,880
Wouldn't have happened without

1882
01:03:09,881 --> 01:03:11,740
somebody with that

1883
01:03:11,741 --> 01:03:13,620
style, okay,

1884
01:03:13,621 --> 01:03:14,780
would not have happened.

1885
01:03:14,781 --> 01:03:16,180
But now we kind of need something

1886
01:03:16,181 --> 01:03:17,280
else.

1887
01:03:17,281 --> 01:03:19,300
We need to be able to work with and

1888
01:03:19,301 --> 01:03:21,420
not just sort of be hanging out

1889
01:03:21,421 --> 01:03:23,920
here without the support of that

1890
01:03:23,921 --> 01:03:26,160
administration, which

1891
01:03:26,161 --> 01:03:27,420
is very large. I think they've got

1892
01:03:27,421 --> 01:03:29,120
some time to do stuff for us, You

1893
01:03:29,121 --> 01:03:30,310
take that.

1894
01:03:30,311 --> 01:03:32,230
So you mentioned AI briefly in

1895
01:03:32,231 --> 01:03:34,190
terms of where the system currently

1896
01:03:34,191 --> 01:03:35,930
sits with AI and some of the

1897
01:03:35,931 --> 01:03:37,730
reluctance to continue down that

1898
01:03:37,731 --> 01:03:38,810
path.

1899
01:03:38,811 --> 01:03:40,810
Can you name four or five

1900
01:03:40,811 --> 01:03:42,750
other initiatives that

1901
01:03:42,751 --> 01:03:44,750
President Rothman was

1902
01:03:44,751 --> 01:03:47,090
more of a gatekeeper of the

1903
01:03:47,091 --> 01:03:48,950
status quo and

1904
01:03:48,951 --> 01:03:50,870
either rejected or was not on board

1905
01:03:50,871 --> 01:03:52,710
in moving some of those

1906
01:03:52,711 --> 01:03:54,550
reforms through the

1907
01:03:54,551 --> 01:03:55,551
system.

1908
01:03:58,611 --> 01:04:00,350
Look, here's one of the things I

1909
01:04:00,351 --> 01:04:01,250
like to say.

1910
01:04:01,251 --> 01:04:03,070
Everybody's in favor of change,

1911
01:04:03,071 --> 01:04:04,550
just nobody wants to do it.

1912
01:04:04,551 --> 01:04:05,970
But President Rauffman was always

1913
01:04:05,971 --> 01:04:07,450
concerned about it.

1914
01:04:07,451 --> 01:04:09,210
And this is legitimate.

1915
01:04:09,211 --> 01:04:10,470
He goes, you know, this is the

1916
01:04:10,471 --> 01:04:12,770
University of Wisconsin.

1917
01:04:12,771 --> 01:04:14,610
Change isn't necessarily

1918
01:04:14,611 --> 01:04:15,610
welcomed in here.

1919
01:04:15,611 --> 01:04:17,290
He was always concern.

1920
01:04:17,291 --> 01:04:19,110
And he told me he didn't

1921
01:04:19,111 --> 01:04:21,290
like what I said out loud,

1922
01:04:21,291 --> 01:04:23,580
because it would alarm people.

1923
01:04:23,581 --> 01:04:25,600
Okay, my view is people should be

1924
01:04:25,601 --> 01:04:27,380
alarmed. But he didn't like what I

1925
01:04:27,381 --> 01:04:29,160
would say a lot about things because

1926
01:04:29,161 --> 01:04:31,140
it would agitate the staff or the

1927
01:04:31,141 --> 01:04:32,700
faculty or the students because it

1928
01:04:32,701 --> 01:04:34,160
wasn't fully thought out.

1929
01:04:34,161 --> 01:04:36,240
So in general, we talked

1930
01:04:36,241 --> 01:04:37,680
about a lot of these things.

1931
01:04:37,681 --> 01:04:38,800
We've talked about the cliff.

1932
01:04:38,801 --> 01:04:40,180
We've talk about certificates.

1933
01:04:40,181 --> 01:04:42,440
We've about faculty pay.

1934
01:04:42,441 --> 01:04:44,020
We've talking about campuses.

1935
01:04:44,021 --> 01:04:46,280
We've taught about program array.

1936
01:04:46,281 --> 01:04:48,180
Okay, but everything moves.

1937
01:04:49,641 --> 01:04:51,840
In my view, he would disagree

1938
01:04:51,841 --> 01:04:53,660
with me, in fairness to him.

1939
01:04:53,661 --> 01:04:55,620
He would disagree, but in my view

1940
01:04:55,621 --> 01:04:57,300
everything moves a little too

1941
01:04:57,301 --> 01:04:58,100
methodically.

1942
01:04:58,101 --> 01:05:00,060
Now admittedly, I am a patient

1943
01:05:00,061 --> 01:05:01,220
person.

1944
01:05:01,221 --> 01:05:03,060
I was once tested for patients and

1945
01:05:03,061 --> 01:05:04,061
I tested negative.

1946
01:05:05,201 --> 01:05:07,020
So, but if you've

1947
01:05:07,021 --> 01:05:08,500
got to move...

1948
01:05:08,501 --> 01:05:10,460
And starting to move is the first

1949
01:05:10,461 --> 01:05:12,760
thing. And he generally speaking,

1950
01:05:12,761 --> 01:05:14,220
except for the things, and we did

1951
01:05:14,221 --> 01:05:15,100
agree on a lot of things.

1952
01:05:15,101 --> 01:05:17,460
We put Act 15 into place.

1953
01:05:17,461 --> 01:05:19,300
The Regents, before I got on, agreed

1954
01:05:19,301 --> 01:05:21,300
with the DEI deal.

1955
01:05:21,301 --> 01:05:22,520
One of the things I talked to him

1956
01:05:22,521 --> 01:05:24,480
about was, is this

1957
01:05:24,481 --> 01:05:26,480
system complying with

1958
01:05:26,481 --> 01:05:27,260
that deal?

1959
01:05:27,261 --> 01:05:28,840
Whatever you might think of it.

1960
01:05:28,841 --> 01:05:29,880
It was an agreement.

1961
01:05:29,881 --> 01:05:31,700
A real big, I take it, agreements.

1962
01:05:31,701 --> 01:05:33,100
And we talked about it in a lot

1963
01:05:33,101 --> 01:05:34,640
those terms. So there was a lot

1964
01:05:34,641 --> 01:05:36,520
support. Don't get me wrong, this is

1965
01:05:36,521 --> 01:05:37,860
not like, and they got everything

1966
01:05:37,861 --> 01:05:38,730
that's wrong.

1967
01:05:38,731 --> 01:05:40,610
I'm not saying that,

1968
01:05:40,611 --> 01:05:42,470
but I'm saying for innovation

1969
01:05:42,471 --> 01:05:43,970
and movement forward,

1970
01:05:45,351 --> 01:05:47,570
key and the system are not designed.

1971
01:05:50,321 --> 01:05:52,940
Really move quickly and

1972
01:05:52,941 --> 01:05:54,180
but on the other hand what

1973
01:05:54,181 --> 01:05:55,940
organization is the state government

1974
01:05:55,941 --> 01:05:56,941
depended on

1975
01:05:58,471 --> 01:06:00,330
Let me just add to that too, and

1976
01:06:00,331 --> 01:06:02,290
to be fair, this is

1977
01:06:02,291 --> 01:06:04,990
a moment of transformation,

1978
01:06:04,991 --> 01:06:07,070
but I can tell you that the system

1979
01:06:07,071 --> 01:06:09,030
and the people that make the system

1980
01:06:09,031 --> 01:06:11,670
but more the campuses.

1981
01:06:11,671 --> 01:06:13,231
Act 15 was.

1982
01:06:14,861 --> 01:06:16,840
A lot of work,

1983
01:06:16,841 --> 01:06:18,900
it took a lot time and

1984
01:06:18,901 --> 01:06:20,600
a lot of buy-in from the campuses

1985
01:06:20,601 --> 01:06:22,460
and I give them all so

1986
01:06:22,461 --> 01:06:24,660
much credit for working together

1987
01:06:24,661 --> 01:06:27,440
to get what they had to get done.

1988
01:06:27,441 --> 01:06:29,480
But it really sort of prevented us

1989
01:06:29,481 --> 01:06:31,300
at the moment for, it's a

1990
01:06:31,301 --> 01:06:33,240
way to move forward, but it

1991
01:06:33,241 --> 01:06:34,990
was all hands on deck.

1992
01:06:34,991 --> 01:06:36,910
And, you know, now that

1993
01:06:36,911 --> 01:06:39,010
we're kind of past that,

1994
01:06:39,011 --> 01:06:40,790
it is a moment in time that we must

1995
01:06:40,791 --> 01:06:41,750
move forward.

1996
01:06:41,751 --> 01:06:43,650
And it's not necessarily

1997
01:06:43,651 --> 01:06:45,470
looking backwards to what

1998
01:06:45,471 --> 01:06:47,530
we could have been doing, it's we've

1999
01:06:47,531 --> 01:06:48,630
gotten a lot of big things

2000
01:06:48,631 --> 01:06:50,790
accomplished, we have a

2001
01:06:50,791 --> 01:06:52,390
great budget that we are working

2002
01:06:52,391 --> 01:06:53,470
with.

2003
01:06:53,471 --> 01:06:55,410
We've got Act 15 done, we

2004
01:06:55,411 --> 01:06:56,930
are trying our very best to make

2005
01:06:56,931 --> 01:06:59,050
sure all campuses are complying.

2006
01:06:59,051 --> 01:07:01,010
It was a heavy lift and

2007
01:07:01,011 --> 01:07:02,850
people worked tirelessly, I mean

2008
01:07:02,851 --> 01:07:04,710
60, 70 hours of work to make

2009
01:07:04,711 --> 01:07:06,530
sure that we're in compliance.

2010
01:07:06,531 --> 01:07:08,770
And they're still very much worried.

2011
01:07:08,771 --> 01:07:11,530
They want to make sure that all the

2012
01:07:11,531 --> 01:07:13,210
I's are dotted and the T's are

2013
01:07:13,211 --> 01:07:15,690
crossed. So as we look there,

2014
01:07:15,691 --> 01:07:17,670
we're also looking forward to move

2015
01:07:17,671 --> 01:07:19,470
ahead and, in sync with the next

2016
01:07:19,471 --> 01:07:21,450
leader, that the board and

2017
01:07:21,451 --> 01:07:23,410
that leader, not a

2018
01:07:23,411 --> 01:07:24,990
silver of light, I think I'm quoting

2019
01:07:24,991 --> 01:07:27,030
a past present, will get between

2020
01:07:27,031 --> 01:07:29,290
us. And that's what we need,

2021
01:07:29,291 --> 01:07:31,470
because it is a difficult

2022
01:07:31,471 --> 01:07:33,390
place to get change,

2023
01:07:33,391 --> 01:07:34,990
as we all know.

2024
01:07:34,991 --> 01:07:36,810
We think that we've got a

2025
01:07:36,811 --> 01:07:38,570
clear week and then we're throwing

2026
01:07:38,571 --> 01:07:40,330
something, whether it's from the

2027
01:07:40,331 --> 01:07:42,070
federal government or something that

2028
01:07:42,071 --> 01:07:43,840
we got to accomplish.

2029
01:07:43,841 --> 01:07:45,700
All hands on deck, okay, we'll

2030
01:07:45,701 --> 01:07:46,701
put this over here.

2031
01:07:47,701 --> 01:07:49,160
But little by little, we're getting

2032
01:07:49,161 --> 01:07:50,720
there, and we're hoping that the

2033
01:07:50,721 --> 01:07:53,740
next leader can really be

2034
01:07:53,741 --> 01:07:56,200
transformative, energetic,

2035
01:07:56,201 --> 01:07:57,880
and work with the board closely so

2036
01:07:57,881 --> 01:07:59,121
we can accomplish more.

2037
01:08:01,141 --> 01:08:02,240
Thank you.

2038
01:08:03,241 --> 01:08:05,160
I don't know that I heard the four

2039
01:08:05,161 --> 01:08:07,360
or five other areas that

2040
01:08:07,361 --> 01:08:09,720
President Kaufman was

2041
01:08:09,721 --> 01:08:11,820
the

2042
01:08:11,821 --> 01:08:13,400
gamekeeper of.

2043
01:08:13,401 --> 01:08:14,820
And I think some additional detail

2044
01:08:14,821 --> 01:08:17,060
on that would be helpful if it's

2045
01:08:17,061 --> 01:08:19,420
available before we go to

2046
01:08:19,421 --> 01:08:20,440
Sarah Kavalka-Bear with her

2047
01:08:20,441 --> 01:08:21,441
question.

2048
01:08:22,971 --> 01:08:24,950
Was the gatekeeper a lot of things.

2049
01:08:24,951 --> 01:08:26,990
He did not like it when we talked to

2050
01:08:26,991 --> 01:08:28,910
individual legislators and we had

2051
01:08:28,911 --> 01:08:30,590
to report every time we talked to

2052
01:08:30,591 --> 01:08:32,010
one of them on the set.

2053
01:08:32,011 --> 01:08:33,630
I'm not a big fan of that.

2054
01:08:33,631 --> 01:08:34,590
Maybe I did.

2055
01:08:34,591 --> 01:08:37,410
Maybe I kind of didn't.

2056
01:08:37,411 --> 01:08:39,270
In fairness to him, Act 15

2057
01:08:39,271 --> 01:08:41,250
did block everything up for about

2058
01:08:41,251 --> 01:08:43,090
a year. But what do we need to

2059
01:08:43,091 --> 01:08:44,670
talk about? Here are other things we

2060
01:08:44,671 --> 01:08:45,590
need talk about.

2061
01:08:45,591 --> 01:08:47,370
And we haven't even gotten them on a

2062
01:08:47,371 --> 01:08:48,240
list.

2063
01:08:48,241 --> 01:08:50,020
Y'all are concerned about

2064
01:08:50,021 --> 01:08:51,080
dormitories.

2065
01:08:51,081 --> 01:08:52,720
Well, should we have dormitory?

2066
01:08:52,721 --> 01:08:54,260
Should dormitore be public?

2067
01:08:54,261 --> 01:08:55,840
Should dormitories be private?

2068
01:08:55,841 --> 01:08:57,380
Should they be whatever?

2069
01:08:57,381 --> 01:08:58,420
That's the things we need.

2070
01:08:58,421 --> 01:09:00,300
We didn't even get to talk about

2071
01:09:00,301 --> 01:09:01,780
those things because they were

2072
01:09:01,781 --> 01:09:03,500
considered third rail.

2073
01:09:03,501 --> 01:09:05,180
And quite frankly, they are third

2074
01:09:05,181 --> 01:09:07,760
rail as

2075
01:09:07,761 --> 01:09:08,761
an example.

2076
01:09:10,381 --> 01:09:12,740
They're AI is third rail,

2077
01:09:12,741 --> 01:09:13,540
you know.

2078
01:09:13,541 --> 01:09:14,500
I'm.

2079
01:09:14,501 --> 01:09:16,520
You've already guessed, I read that

2080
01:09:16,521 --> 01:09:18,340
book, How to Overcome Your Shyness,

2081
01:09:18,341 --> 01:09:19,341
OK?

2082
01:09:20,821 --> 01:09:22,520
And I'm willing to grab the third

2083
01:09:22,521 --> 01:09:23,521
rail.

2084
01:09:23,941 --> 01:09:25,380
President Obama is just less likely

2085
01:09:25,381 --> 01:09:26,800
to do that in a number of things.

2086
01:09:26,801 --> 01:09:28,640
He and I talked a lot,

2087
01:09:28,641 --> 01:09:29,641
as you might guess.

2088
01:09:30,741 --> 01:09:32,820
And I don't dislike you,

2089
01:09:32,821 --> 01:09:34,700
we just didn't see eye to

2090
01:09:34,701 --> 01:09:36,560
eye on the speed with which you

2091
01:09:36,561 --> 01:09:38,680
could move and any of the

2092
01:09:38,681 --> 01:09:41,000
topics you could, in fact,

2093
01:09:41,001 --> 01:09:41,980
move on.

2094
01:09:41,981 --> 01:09:43,280
We didn't want to upset the

2095
01:09:43,281 --> 01:09:44,760
applicant. I think the applicant

2096
01:09:44,761 --> 01:09:45,761
needs some upset.

2097
01:09:47,841 --> 01:09:49,360
Senator R.C.G.

2098
01:09:49,361 --> 01:09:51,220
Yeah, I had a, I have two

2099
01:09:51,221 --> 01:09:52,560
questions here.

2100
01:09:52,561 --> 01:09:53,760
Let's call, so maybe you could help

2101
01:09:53,761 --> 01:09:54,761
me out with this one.

2102
01:09:56,181 --> 01:09:57,980
And again, I like the detail.

2103
01:09:57,981 --> 01:09:59,900
I guess I'm stuck on it's

2104
01:09:59,901 --> 01:10:01,580
him, it's them, blah, blah blah.

2105
01:10:01,581 --> 01:10:03,280
I don't like that, right?

2106
01:10:03,281 --> 01:10:04,460
I just fax.

2107
01:10:04,461 --> 01:10:06,280
So if this board actually

2108
01:10:06,281 --> 01:10:07,380
met in closed session.

2109
01:10:07,381 --> 01:10:08,381
Thank you very much.

2110
01:10:10,431 --> 01:10:12,450
Would Rothman be actually able

2111
01:10:12,451 --> 01:10:14,730
to waive confidentiality

2112
01:10:14,731 --> 01:10:16,171
if he was in a closed session?

2113
01:10:17,971 --> 01:10:19,830
Is that possible if you're in a

2114
01:10:19,831 --> 01:10:20,790
close session?

2115
01:10:20,791 --> 01:10:21,811
Can he do that?

2116
01:10:23,471 --> 01:10:24,870
Would he be able to do that, would

2117
01:10:24,871 --> 01:10:26,270
he know facts from that closed

2118
01:10:26,271 --> 01:10:28,480
session, to be able to wape that?

2119
01:10:28,481 --> 01:10:30,320
I think he could communicate his

2120
01:10:30,321 --> 01:10:32,960
own issues that

2121
01:10:32,961 --> 01:10:34,860
he was discussing in the closed

2122
01:10:34,861 --> 01:10:35,680
session.

2123
01:10:35,681 --> 01:10:37,620
So he could disclose what

2124
01:10:37,621 --> 01:10:39,880
he actually said and did,

2125
01:10:39,881 --> 01:10:41,920
but not what anybody else said or

2126
01:10:41,921 --> 01:10:43,900
did or any sort

2127
01:10:43,901 --> 01:10:45,960
of concerns that they had

2128
01:10:45,961 --> 01:10:47,460
about him, if it was in closed

2129
01:10:47,461 --> 01:10:48,461
session.

2130
01:10:48,951 --> 01:10:50,910
I hesitate, since

2131
01:10:50,911 --> 01:10:52,430
I don't know what the communications

2132
01:10:52,431 --> 01:10:54,950
will hesitate to

2133
01:10:54,951 --> 01:10:56,431
venture.

2134
01:10:58,261 --> 01:11:00,120
So it's a gray zone again, if we

2135
01:11:00,121 --> 01:11:01,121
don't have it.

2136
01:11:01,681 --> 01:11:04,020
He has his reasons

2137
01:11:04,021 --> 01:11:05,920
and he can come

2138
01:11:05,921 --> 01:11:07,780
out and say what he perceived his

2139
01:11:07,781 --> 01:11:08,781
reasons.

2140
01:11:15,211 --> 01:11:16,211
Okay.

2141
01:11:17,411 --> 01:11:18,930
Possibly my last question that I

2142
01:11:18,931 --> 01:11:20,810
would have here is, again, black

2143
01:11:20,811 --> 01:11:22,870
and white. I just like facts.

2144
01:11:22,871 --> 01:11:24,450
I kind of appreciate your style

2145
01:11:24,451 --> 01:11:26,370
here. I don't know if I'm as

2146
01:11:26,371 --> 01:11:29,950
abrupt as you, but I

2147
01:11:29,951 --> 01:11:31,970
appreciate it, right?

2148
01:11:31,971 --> 01:11:33,970
But when we don't have facts,

2149
01:11:33,971 --> 01:11:34,971
we get assumptions.

2150
01:11:35,731 --> 01:11:37,750
Very rarely do we assume

2151
01:11:37,751 --> 01:11:39,690
those assumptions are in the

2152
01:11:39,691 --> 01:11:40,550
positive, right?

2153
01:11:40,551 --> 01:11:41,950
They're usually in the negative I

2154
01:11:41,951 --> 01:11:43,330
mean, I've been sitting here reading

2155
01:11:43,331 --> 01:11:45,070
your non-verbals girlfriend, and I'm

2156
01:11:45,071 --> 01:11:46,450
not taking them as the reading the

2157
01:11:46,451 --> 01:11:47,551
positive. Okay

2158
01:11:50,401 --> 01:11:52,700
We have, now we have

2159
01:11:52,701 --> 01:11:54,980
our UW president who got

2160
01:11:54,981 --> 01:11:56,860
booted and we have our

2161
01:11:56,861 --> 01:11:58,920
chancellor who's

2162
01:11:58,921 --> 01:12:00,920
leaving. When we think about

2163
01:12:00,921 --> 01:12:02,840
what the general population in our

2164
01:12:02,841 --> 01:12:04,160
country and the other universities

2165
01:12:04,161 --> 01:12:06,080
are assuming because

2166
01:12:06,081 --> 01:12:07,980
they don't have facts, I'm going to

2167
01:12:07,981 --> 01:12:09,160
assume it's not in the positive.

2168
01:12:10,681 --> 01:12:11,970
Maybe I'm wrong.

2169
01:12:11,971 --> 01:12:13,910
But again, my intention

2170
01:12:13,911 --> 01:12:15,530
is, what are the facts so that it

2171
01:12:15,531 --> 01:12:17,470
can be clear, so that people are

2172
01:12:17,471 --> 01:12:18,850
not making negative assumptions

2173
01:12:18,851 --> 01:12:21,470
about our flagship here and

2174
01:12:21,471 --> 01:12:23,550
the regents and

2175
01:12:23,551 --> 01:12:25,650
the university as a whole?

2176
01:12:25,651 --> 01:12:27,030
Just something to ponder and

2177
01:12:27,031 --> 01:12:28,990
consider. How does that look to the

2178
01:12:28,991 --> 01:12:30,650
general folk?

2179
01:12:30,651 --> 01:12:32,430
In my opinion, it doesn't look good

2180
01:12:32,431 --> 01:12:35,350
in the assumptions that I'm

2181
01:12:35,351 --> 01:12:36,990
developing in my own little mind

2182
01:12:36,991 --> 01:12:38,650
here because I have no facts, except

2183
01:12:38,651 --> 01:12:39,651
for what you have provided.

2184
01:12:41,691 --> 01:12:43,730
Thank you for that.

2185
01:12:43,731 --> 01:12:45,810
As far as the UW Madison,

2186
01:12:45,811 --> 01:12:47,690
maybe if I have your question right,

2187
01:12:47,691 --> 01:12:50,010
UW Madison Chancellor is

2188
01:12:50,011 --> 01:12:51,950
leaving to take a

2189
01:12:51,951 --> 01:12:53,430
position at Columbia University.

2190
01:12:53,431 --> 01:12:55,610
She has left the flagship better

2191
01:12:55,611 --> 01:12:57,010
than when she founded.

2192
01:12:57,011 --> 01:12:58,950
I have no doubt that

2193
01:12:58,951 --> 01:13:01,030
when we begin the search, which will

2194
01:13:01,031 --> 01:13:02,870
begin shortly, we will

2195
01:13:02,871 --> 01:13:04,870
find an excellent leader for

2196
01:13:04,871 --> 01:13:06,750
a flagship, which is

2197
01:13:06,751 --> 01:13:07,560
key.

2198
01:13:07,561 --> 01:13:09,500
Our flagship is

2199
01:13:09,501 --> 01:13:11,100
really the Crown Jewel.

2200
01:13:11,101 --> 01:13:13,400
And we take that duty very

2201
01:13:13,401 --> 01:13:15,340
serious, and I think that

2202
01:13:15,341 --> 01:13:16,650
her leaving.

2203
01:13:16,651 --> 01:13:18,650
And I think we will find many

2204
01:13:18,651 --> 01:13:19,890
good people. I mean, look at, she's

2205
01:13:19,891 --> 01:13:21,650
going to the top, one of the top Ivy

2206
01:13:21,651 --> 01:13:24,290
Leagues in our country.

2207
01:13:24,291 --> 01:13:26,070
And I thinks she's done so many

2208
01:13:26,071 --> 01:13:28,290
wonderful things for the university.

2209
01:13:28,291 --> 01:13:30,090
As far as President Rothman, it's

2210
01:13:30,091 --> 01:13:32,110
unfortunate that he chose this

2211
01:13:32,111 --> 01:13:33,310
exit.

2212
01:13:33,311 --> 01:13:34,910
It's unfortunate that he's creating

2213
01:13:34,911 --> 01:13:36,770
a narrative that has to be negative.

2214
01:13:36,771 --> 01:13:38,450
It doesn't have to be a negative.

2215
01:13:38,451 --> 01:13:40,630
The past is the past.

2216
01:13:40,631 --> 01:13:42,630
He's done wonderful things, as I

2217
01:13:42,631 --> 01:13:44,510
said before. He righted

2218
01:13:44,511 --> 01:13:46,930
the ship for all our comprehensives,

2219
01:13:46,931 --> 01:13:49,150
which has never been done.

2220
01:13:49,151 --> 01:13:51,010
We work together well on civil

2221
01:13:51,011 --> 01:13:53,030
dialog, and we're very excited

2222
01:13:53,031 --> 01:13:54,330
about where that's headed.

2223
01:13:54,331 --> 01:13:56,410
I'm so proud of our 13

2224
01:13:56,411 --> 01:13:58,350
universities and how serious they're

2225
01:13:58,351 --> 01:14:00,210
taking civil dialog

2226
01:14:00,211 --> 01:14:02,250
and free speech, and we are

2227
01:14:02,251 --> 01:14:03,890
all, every one of us, I can speak

2228
01:14:03,891 --> 01:14:05,910
for the board, our proponents of

2229
01:14:05,911 --> 01:14:07,650
all that is happening with this.

2230
01:14:07,651 --> 01:14:09,610
This is necessary.

2231
01:14:09,611 --> 01:14:11,450
More speech is better, right?

2232
01:14:11,451 --> 01:14:13,290
We all agree with that, and

2233
01:14:13,291 --> 01:14:14,930
I'm so proud that we've taken the

2234
01:14:14,931 --> 01:14:16,770
lead and the President's taken

2235
01:14:16,771 --> 01:14:17,870
that lead.

2236
01:14:17,871 --> 01:14:19,390
I mean, people can assume things,

2237
01:14:19,391 --> 01:14:21,350
but that's not up to us,

2238
01:14:21,351 --> 01:14:23,330
that's up to President Rothman.

2239
01:14:23,331 --> 01:14:24,350
If he wants to waive

2240
01:14:24,351 --> 01:14:26,270
confidentiality, then he

2241
01:14:26,271 --> 01:14:28,530
can do that and we can talk about

2242
01:14:28,531 --> 01:14:30,310
the personnel matters.

2243
01:14:30,311 --> 01:14:32,230
I mean I think there's enough

2244
01:14:32,231 --> 01:14:33,890
narrative out there from the

2245
01:14:33,891 --> 01:14:35,790
positives, and the fact that we

2246
01:14:35,791 --> 01:14:37,730
wanna go forward with a leader

2247
01:14:37,731 --> 01:14:39,610
for the future is

2248
01:14:39,611 --> 01:14:41,670
really, to me,

2249
01:14:41,671 --> 01:14:42,650
it's not a negative.

2250
01:14:42,651 --> 01:14:44,130
Everyone can create their own

2251
01:14:44,131 --> 01:14:46,010
stories, but that's not on the

2252
01:14:46,011 --> 01:14:48,070
regents. We didn't want it that way.

2253
01:14:48,071 --> 01:14:49,530
It's on President Rothman to

2254
01:14:49,531 --> 01:14:50,770
determine how he wants the

2255
01:14:50,771 --> 01:14:51,690
narrative.

2256
01:14:51,691 --> 01:14:53,690
So it's unfortunate, but here

2257
01:14:53,691 --> 01:14:54,691
we are.

2258
01:14:55,271 --> 01:14:57,110
I'm just hoping we aren't

2259
01:14:57,111 --> 01:14:58,890
looking at negative life because of

2260
01:14:58,891 --> 01:15:00,810
large departures in UW.

2261
01:15:00,811 --> 01:15:02,190
And if you haven't considered that,

2262
01:15:02,191 --> 01:15:04,350
that would be shameful because now

2263
01:15:04,351 --> 01:15:05,370
it should be.

2264
01:15:05,371 --> 01:15:06,710
I appreciate that.

2265
01:15:06,711 --> 01:15:06,711
Assumptions.

2266
01:15:06,712 --> 01:15:07,510
Right now it should be I appreciate
that and assumptions I

2267
01:15:07,511 --> 01:15:09,210
appreciate that and it's unfortunate

2268
01:15:09,211 --> 01:15:11,910
and you know region and

2269
01:15:11,911 --> 01:15:12,850
I'm sorry mr.

2270
01:15:12,851 --> 01:15:15,070
Rothman's tenure for various reasons

2271
01:15:15,071 --> 01:15:17,030
we've lost ten chancellors right

2272
01:15:17,031 --> 01:15:18,930
we don't we don't want that

2273
01:15:18,931 --> 01:15:20,750
we want stability we want

2274
01:15:20,751 --> 01:15:23,150
to bring stability back and

2275
01:15:23,151 --> 01:15:25,110
and and if

2276
01:15:25,111 --> 01:15:27,670
you look around the country again

2277
01:15:27,671 --> 01:15:29,550
higher education is a time

2278
01:15:29,551 --> 01:15:31,291
of a big change

2279
01:15:32,341 --> 01:15:34,160
chancellors, presidents,

2280
01:15:34,161 --> 01:15:36,540
these are really difficult jobs.

2281
01:15:36,541 --> 01:15:38,760
It wasn't like it was 10

2282
01:15:38,761 --> 01:15:40,780
or 15 years ago when

2283
01:15:40,781 --> 01:15:42,680
they don't have issues that are so

2284
01:15:42,681 --> 01:15:43,780
controversial.

2285
01:15:43,781 --> 01:15:45,820
Everyone's under a magnifying glass.

2286
01:15:46,821 --> 01:15:48,680
And these jobs for these people at

2287
01:15:48,681 --> 01:15:50,980
such a high level, there's burnout.

2288
01:15:50,981 --> 01:15:51,760
I mean, they're hard.

2289
01:15:51,761 --> 01:15:54,240
They're under the gun 24-7.

2290
01:15:54,241 --> 01:15:56,760
So for whatever reason

2291
01:15:56,761 --> 01:15:58,340
that, you know, that the public

2292
01:15:58,341 --> 01:16:00,440
assumes, these

2293
01:16:00,441 --> 01:16:02,010
jobs are really tough.

2294
01:16:02,011 --> 01:16:03,650
And I think we have a lot of good

2295
01:16:03,651 --> 01:16:05,750
people that we will find to

2296
01:16:05,751 --> 01:16:07,930
replace both Mr.

2297
01:16:07,931 --> 01:16:09,850
Rothman and Chancellor Mnuchin.

2298
01:16:09,851 --> 01:16:11,250
I am very confident.

2299
01:16:13,381 --> 01:16:15,520
A couple of points to raise

2300
01:16:15,521 --> 01:16:17,100
on that.

2301
01:16:17,101 --> 01:16:19,460
In addition to leaving for Columbia,

2302
01:16:19,461 --> 01:16:21,400
Shunston is going to make $3 million

2303
01:16:21,401 --> 01:16:24,060
there. She makes $1 million here.

2304
01:16:24,061 --> 01:16:26,060
We also had Chancellor Schmidt

2305
01:16:26,061 --> 01:16:27,940
leave Eau Claire, and

2306
01:16:27,941 --> 01:16:28,810
he had.

2307
01:16:28,811 --> 01:16:30,810
A really good bump when he went to

2308
01:16:30,811 --> 01:16:31,870
James Madison.

2309
01:16:31,871 --> 01:16:33,490
And I'm going to say this.

2310
01:16:33,491 --> 01:16:35,370
The $600,000 we

2311
01:16:35,371 --> 01:16:37,290
paid President Rothman, that's nice

2312
01:16:37,291 --> 01:16:39,410
of him to accept that that's not

2313
01:16:39,411 --> 01:16:41,250
a market salary for a system

2314
01:16:41,251 --> 01:16:43,010
this size. You can look around and

2315
01:16:43,011 --> 01:16:44,970
just say, but that's

2316
01:16:44,971 --> 01:16:46,410
where we are.

2317
01:16:46,411 --> 01:16:47,590
One of the things that President

2318
01:16:47,591 --> 01:16:49,910
Rothland and I frequently

2319
01:16:49,911 --> 01:16:51,890
thought it heads on was open

2320
01:16:51,891 --> 01:16:52,891
meetings.

2321
01:16:53,971 --> 01:16:55,850
He firmly believed in

2322
01:16:55,851 --> 01:16:57,850
closed meetings, and he also

2323
01:16:57,851 --> 01:16:59,850
believed in briefing us individually

2324
01:16:59,851 --> 01:17:02,830
in small groups so

2325
01:17:02,831 --> 01:17:04,770
that we didn't have these public

2326
01:17:04,771 --> 01:17:06,530
discussions about things.

2327
01:17:07,891 --> 01:17:09,990
I am a huge, I was a municipal

2328
01:17:09,991 --> 01:17:11,890
official for 20-some years.

2329
01:17:11,891 --> 01:17:13,650
Open meetings don't bother me.

2330
01:17:13,651 --> 01:17:15,030
I lived with them.

2331
01:17:15,031 --> 01:17:16,530
I ran a village.

2332
01:17:16,531 --> 01:17:18,290
I ran water utility.

2333
01:17:18,291 --> 01:17:19,970
They are what they are, you just

2334
01:17:19,971 --> 01:17:21,270
follow the law.

2335
01:17:21,271 --> 01:17:23,190
But when you're using it to try and

2336
01:17:23,191 --> 01:17:25,150
keep people from discussing what

2337
01:17:25,151 --> 01:17:27,130
is going on, that's another reason

2338
01:17:27,131 --> 01:17:29,730
why we look so opaque.

2339
01:17:29,731 --> 01:17:31,710
It's just because you can go

2340
01:17:31,711 --> 01:17:33,950
into a closed session doesn't

2341
01:17:33,951 --> 01:17:35,650
mean you have to.

2342
01:17:35,651 --> 01:17:37,770
You are given the opportunity by

2343
01:17:37,771 --> 01:17:39,650
statute. And I think we

2344
01:17:39,651 --> 01:17:41,490
have way too many closed sessions.

2345
01:17:41,491 --> 01:17:43,370
And I thing our little side

2346
01:17:43,371 --> 01:17:45,310
briefings, I always hated

2347
01:17:45,311 --> 01:17:46,930
those because the major purpose is

2348
01:17:46,931 --> 01:17:49,190
so it wasn't publicly discussed

2349
01:17:49,191 --> 01:17:50,250
at a meeting.

2350
01:17:50,251 --> 01:17:51,330
And I just think that's

2351
01:17:51,331 --> 01:17:52,150
inappropriate.

2352
01:17:52,151 --> 01:17:54,170
Now, in his favor, what he

2353
01:17:54,171 --> 01:17:56,230
used to tell me was I don't

2354
01:17:56,231 --> 01:17:58,710
want to agitate individual

2355
01:17:58,711 --> 01:18:00,870
legislators. I don't want to agitate

2356
01:18:00,871 --> 01:18:02,170
individual campuses.

2357
01:18:02,171 --> 01:18:03,171
I don't want to

2358
01:18:04,081 --> 01:18:06,160
You know, by them hearing

2359
01:18:06,161 --> 01:18:08,280
this, and immediately going

2360
01:18:08,281 --> 01:18:09,920
up, isn't that?

2361
01:18:09,921 --> 01:18:11,500
You guys do that when you talk about

2362
01:18:11,501 --> 01:18:12,780
stuff. Don't you agitate a few

2363
01:18:12,781 --> 01:18:14,160
people when you're talking about the

2364
01:18:14,161 --> 01:18:15,161
laws you're going to do?

2365
01:18:16,321 --> 01:18:17,761
Who can we deny all charges?

2366
01:18:20,101 --> 01:18:22,080
So that's another thing I agree

2367
01:18:22,081 --> 01:18:23,820
with you. I am not a fan of closed

2368
01:18:23,821 --> 01:18:25,920
meetings. The university has too

2369
01:18:25,921 --> 01:18:28,500
many. Not because they're not legal.

2370
01:18:28,501 --> 01:18:30,380
Okay, because I made sure

2371
01:18:30,381 --> 01:18:31,860
that if we go.

2372
01:18:31,861 --> 01:18:33,700
This is one of the places, if we

2373
01:18:33,701 --> 01:18:35,440
start veering off what we said we're

2374
01:18:35,441 --> 01:18:36,800
going to discuss, I'm the one that

2375
01:18:36,801 --> 01:18:38,960
raises my hand and go, excuse me.

2376
01:18:38,961 --> 01:18:40,120
And so there's a general counsel

2377
01:18:40,121 --> 01:18:42,640
now. This is off topic.

2378
01:18:42,641 --> 01:18:44,460
But we still have too

2379
01:18:44,461 --> 01:18:45,760
many of them.

2380
01:18:45,761 --> 01:18:47,720
We need to be more

2381
01:18:47,721 --> 01:18:49,720
transparent for you and for

2382
01:18:49,721 --> 01:18:51,500
the public. I'm not ashamed of them

2383
01:18:51,501 --> 01:18:52,340
anymore.

2384
01:18:52,341 --> 01:18:53,900
Is it controversial?

2385
01:18:53,901 --> 01:18:55,860
Well, yeah, if you're doing it.

2386
01:18:55,861 --> 01:18:57,780
Benjamin Franklin said,

2387
01:18:57,781 --> 01:18:59,700
someone in public life who has

2388
01:18:59,701 --> 01:19:01,720
no one angry at them needs to

2389
01:19:01,721 --> 01:19:03,840
be ashamed, because

2390
01:19:03,841 --> 01:19:06,420
it means you're not doing something.

2391
01:19:06,421 --> 01:19:08,220
So that would be another point of

2392
01:19:08,221 --> 01:19:10,020
philosophical disagreement.

2393
01:19:10,021 --> 01:19:11,380
President Roth and I talked a lot.

2394
01:19:13,611 --> 01:19:15,850
Can I ask a follow-up question,

2395
01:19:15,851 --> 01:19:17,392
so I'll get to you, I promise.

2396
01:19:20,391 --> 01:19:21,910
Wait a minute.

2397
01:19:21,911 --> 01:19:23,770
You were there first?

2398
01:19:23,771 --> 01:19:24,771
Okay.

2399
01:19:25,171 --> 01:19:26,430
I'll just finish my comment real

2400
01:19:26,431 --> 01:19:27,431
quickly.

2401
01:19:30,201 --> 01:19:31,560
Again, you reiterated a number of

2402
01:19:31,561 --> 01:19:34,240
things that President Rotman was

2403
01:19:34,241 --> 01:19:36,180
not in support of or not leading the

2404
01:19:36,181 --> 01:19:38,100
charge with

2405
01:19:38,101 --> 01:19:39,800
or for.

2406
01:19:39,801 --> 01:19:41,400
You mentioned, again, a couple of

2407
01:19:41,401 --> 01:19:42,480
specific others that are a little

2408
01:19:42,481 --> 01:19:43,840
bit more vague.

2409
01:19:43,841 --> 01:19:45,140
Can you kind of walk us through a

2410
01:19:45,141 --> 01:19:47,580
process of, was there,

2411
01:19:47,581 --> 01:19:49,060
were there meetings, review

2412
01:19:49,061 --> 01:19:51,660
meetings, performance meetings with

2413
01:19:51,661 --> 01:19:53,720
President Rotland around those

2414
01:19:53,721 --> 01:19:56,300
areas that you found him to be

2415
01:19:56,301 --> 01:19:58,480
insufficient or

2416
01:19:58,481 --> 01:20:00,480
counter to what you are trying to

2417
01:20:00,481 --> 01:20:01,481
accomplish.

2418
01:20:03,021 --> 01:20:04,880
Were those meetings in

2419
01:20:04,881 --> 01:20:05,881
private?

2420
01:20:06,681 --> 01:20:07,820
Were they open meetings?

2421
01:20:07,821 --> 01:20:09,760
Were they documented meetings?

2422
01:20:09,761 --> 01:20:12,100
Are there documents that,

2423
01:20:12,101 --> 01:20:13,920
as a board, we

2424
01:20:13,921 --> 01:20:15,840
can have access to,

2425
01:20:15,841 --> 01:20:17,760
just to look at, again, behind the

2426
01:20:17,761 --> 01:20:19,700
scenes of how this all somewhat

2427
01:20:19,701 --> 01:20:20,540
played out?

2428
01:20:20,541 --> 01:20:22,480
The University of Detroit,

2429
01:20:22,481 --> 01:20:22,910
I'm sorry.

2430
01:20:22,911 --> 01:20:25,430
I'll just because I was

2431
01:20:25,431 --> 01:20:27,350
I will

2432
01:20:27,351 --> 01:20:29,270
just tell you that and I

2433
01:20:29,271 --> 01:20:30,630
think this has been in my statement

2434
01:20:30,631 --> 01:20:32,530
before and I don't know if this is

2435
01:20:32,531 --> 01:20:35,890
helpful to repeat this but the

2436
01:20:35,891 --> 01:20:37,450
president of the board is tasked

2437
01:20:37,451 --> 01:20:39,430
with the it's in policy that

2438
01:20:39,431 --> 01:20:40,950
we're tasked with giving an annual

2439
01:20:40,951 --> 01:20:42,630
evaluation to the president this is

2440
01:20:42,631 --> 01:20:44,610
nothing new it's been going

2441
01:20:44,611 --> 01:20:46,450
on forever and

2442
01:20:46,451 --> 01:20:48,670
that was done and

2443
01:20:48,671 --> 01:20:50,590
there were things that

2444
01:20:50,591 --> 01:20:52,920
you he was tasked with.

2445
01:20:52,921 --> 01:20:55,000
And we had gone into

2446
01:20:55,001 --> 01:20:56,480
some closed sessions about his

2447
01:20:56,481 --> 01:20:58,520
personal evaluation because it

2448
01:20:58,521 --> 01:21:00,920
was, when it first happened,

2449
01:21:00,921 --> 01:21:02,800
it was me, the president, and

2450
01:21:02,801 --> 01:21:04,620
our vice president Kyle Weatherly

2451
01:21:04,621 --> 01:21:07,060
that did the evaluation.

2452
01:21:07,061 --> 01:21:10,040
We gave him that information.

2453
01:21:10,041 --> 01:21:11,780
We had further talks in closed

2454
01:21:11,781 --> 01:21:12,960
session about his personnel

2455
01:21:12,961 --> 01:21:14,280
evaluation.

2456
01:21:14,281 --> 01:21:16,220
And then, you

2457
01:21:16,221 --> 01:21:17,700
may or may not be aware, there was

2458
01:21:17,701 --> 01:21:19,240
many, many discussions with

2459
01:21:19,241 --> 01:21:21,380
individual members, with President

2460
01:21:21,381 --> 01:21:23,380
Rothman, as time

2461
01:21:23,381 --> 01:21:24,381
went on.

2462
01:21:25,061 --> 01:21:26,920
So unfortunately,

2463
01:21:28,001 --> 01:21:30,120
the evaluation was done in,

2464
01:21:30,121 --> 01:21:32,060
all personnel evaluations are done

2465
01:21:32,061 --> 01:21:34,120
this way, and

2466
01:21:34,121 --> 01:21:35,121
confidence.

2467
01:21:36,661 --> 01:21:38,660
And that's the way I

2468
01:21:38,661 --> 01:21:39,900
was told to conduct it.

2469
01:21:39,901 --> 01:21:41,940
That's the why I did conduct it,

2470
01:21:41,941 --> 01:21:44,440
and spent dozens and dozens of hours

2471
01:21:44,441 --> 01:21:46,640
doing the evaluation,

2472
01:21:46,641 --> 01:21:48,180
and a lot of things stemmed from

2473
01:21:48,181 --> 01:21:50,540
that, and as for further

2474
01:21:50,541 --> 01:21:52,061
performances, we went forward.

2475
01:21:53,541 --> 01:21:56,140
So again, I apologize,

2476
01:21:56,141 --> 01:21:57,780
but it is confidential.

2477
01:21:57,781 --> 01:21:59,620
The things that came out,

2478
01:21:59,621 --> 01:22:01,600
I know President Raffman was

2479
01:22:01,601 --> 01:22:03,660
very well aware of all those things,

2480
01:22:03,661 --> 01:22:04,661
so.

2481
01:22:08,151 --> 01:22:09,060
Well, I'll see you then.

2482
01:22:09,061 --> 01:22:11,220
That the system is

2483
01:22:11,221 --> 01:22:13,300
obsessive about not making public

2484
01:22:13,301 --> 01:22:14,301
records.

2485
01:22:15,381 --> 01:22:16,760
President Laughlin and I had a

2486
01:22:16,761 --> 01:22:18,620
discussion one time,

2487
01:22:18,621 --> 01:22:20,540
and I was a little annoyed, but I

2488
01:22:20,541 --> 01:22:21,900
didn't remember the topic.

2489
01:22:21,901 --> 01:22:23,920
I sent him an email.

2490
01:22:23,921 --> 01:22:25,520
And his response was, do you

2491
01:22:25,521 --> 01:22:27,220
understand that's a public record

2492
01:22:27,221 --> 01:22:29,420
now? And I go, yeah.

2493
01:22:29,421 --> 01:22:30,820
I don't remember the topic, but

2494
01:22:30,821 --> 01:22:31,980
there's an example.

2495
01:22:31,981 --> 01:22:33,840
And the reason is he used

2496
01:22:33,841 --> 01:22:35,120
to give, because this was a

2497
01:22:35,121 --> 01:22:36,480
discussion he and I had over and

2498
01:22:36,481 --> 01:22:37,700
over and over again.

2499
01:22:37,701 --> 01:22:39,380
All you're going to do is upset the

2500
01:22:39,381 --> 01:22:41,460
separate constituencies, OK?

2501
01:22:41,461 --> 01:22:42,461
Thank you.

2502
01:22:44,111 --> 01:22:46,230
I'm not saying he's wrong,

2503
01:22:46,231 --> 01:22:48,430
that's probably true,

2504
01:22:48,431 --> 01:22:50,310
but to me, that comes

2505
01:22:50,311 --> 01:22:51,910
with the territory, I don't know.

2506
01:22:51,911 --> 01:22:53,090
That's just the way I look at it,

2507
01:22:53,091 --> 01:22:55,130
but I spent 20-some years as

2508
01:22:55,131 --> 01:22:56,690
a municipal official, I used to.

2509
01:22:58,121 --> 01:23:00,180
And to be fair to Mr.

2510
01:23:00,181 --> 01:23:01,900
Rothman, there are many sensitive

2511
01:23:01,901 --> 01:23:03,740
things that happen in system that

2512
01:23:03,741 --> 01:23:05,300
are hard for the campuses and hard

2513
01:23:05,301 --> 01:23:07,300
for constituents and hard for

2514
01:23:07,301 --> 01:23:09,200
legislators and so I

2515
01:23:09,201 --> 01:23:11,520
think, you know, he was,

2516
01:23:11,521 --> 01:23:12,740
a lot of the times, he was just

2517
01:23:12,741 --> 01:23:14,380
trying to be respectful to the outer

2518
01:23:14,381 --> 01:23:15,920
public because there are many things

2519
01:23:15,921 --> 01:23:17,880
that are discussed, as you all know,

2520
01:23:17,881 --> 01:23:19,780
that are very difficult and

2521
01:23:19,781 --> 01:23:21,520
hard things that we need to do that

2522
01:23:21,521 --> 01:23:23,740
are very difficult so

2523
01:23:23,741 --> 01:23:25,600
it's, you know, it's a balance and

2524
01:23:25,601 --> 01:23:27,120
it's really difficult to get the

2525
01:23:27,121 --> 01:23:28,710
right balance, so.

2526
01:23:28,711 --> 01:23:30,570
Can I quickly ask,

2527
01:23:30,571 --> 01:23:32,470
were those performance reviews, I'll

2528
01:23:32,471 --> 01:23:33,290
call them performance reviews

2529
01:23:33,291 --> 01:23:34,490
because they're something different,

2530
01:23:35,911 --> 01:23:38,090
if they were reviewed by the overall

2531
01:23:38,091 --> 01:23:40,330
Board of Regents and

2532
01:23:40,331 --> 01:23:43,270
I guess agreed to in that regard,

2533
01:23:43,271 --> 01:23:45,530
those were presented to

2534
01:23:45,531 --> 01:23:48,010
then President Rotman either

2535
01:23:48,011 --> 01:23:50,550
verbally or in writing?

2536
01:23:50,551 --> 01:23:52,290
Is there a policy about those

2537
01:23:52,291 --> 01:23:54,610
documents being in writing that he

2538
01:23:54,611 --> 01:23:56,530
signs in

2539
01:23:56,531 --> 01:23:58,450
consideration of the review

2540
01:23:58,451 --> 01:24:00,670
given or how does that necessarily

2541
01:24:00,671 --> 01:24:01,700
play out.

2542
01:24:01,701 --> 01:24:03,540
No, there's nothing to

2543
01:24:03,541 --> 01:24:04,340
be signed.

2544
01:24:04,341 --> 01:24:06,520
It was a discussion that was had,

2545
01:24:06,521 --> 01:24:08,380
the initial discussion with both

2546
01:24:08,381 --> 01:24:09,680
Kyle Weatherly, the Vice President

2547
01:24:09,681 --> 01:24:11,920
and myself, the results of

2548
01:24:11,921 --> 01:24:13,760
my, the process

2549
01:24:13,761 --> 01:24:14,820
that we went through with the

2550
01:24:14,821 --> 01:24:16,100
evaluation and all the various

2551
01:24:16,101 --> 01:24:17,940
stakeholders that we talked to.

2552
01:24:17,941 --> 01:24:20,040
That was the first initial

2553
01:24:20,041 --> 01:24:22,080
stages. And then it was my

2554
01:24:22,081 --> 01:24:24,420
duty and my fiduciary duty to

2555
01:24:24,421 --> 01:24:26,400
let the full board know the results

2556
01:24:26,401 --> 01:24:27,440
of that conversation.

2557
01:24:27,441 --> 01:24:29,860
And then we went into closed session

2558
01:24:29,861 --> 01:24:31,920
with

2559
01:24:31,921 --> 01:24:33,740
Mr. Rothman,

2560
01:24:33,741 --> 01:24:35,720
and then to try

2561
01:24:35,721 --> 01:24:37,280
to push it along, there were other

2562
01:24:37,281 --> 01:24:38,660
further discussions that were

2563
01:24:38,661 --> 01:24:40,540
brought between other members of the

2564
01:24:40,541 --> 01:24:42,341
board discussing this with him.

2565
01:24:43,901 --> 01:24:45,660
And those other discussions of the

2566
01:24:45,661 --> 01:24:47,820
regions were in

2567
01:24:47,821 --> 01:24:49,940
the same vein of

2568
01:24:49,941 --> 01:24:51,900
other concerns the

2569
01:24:51,901 --> 01:24:53,920
board at large had or were those

2570
01:24:53,921 --> 01:24:55,620
individual concerns that those

2571
01:24:55,621 --> 01:24:56,621
regions were

2572
01:24:57,441 --> 01:25:00,150
identified or speaking into.

2573
01:25:00,151 --> 01:25:01,990
Sorry, I realize

2574
01:25:01,991 --> 01:25:03,110
that needs to be clarified.

2575
01:25:03,111 --> 01:25:04,550
It was all stemming from the

2576
01:25:04,551 --> 01:25:06,210
evaluation and issues that were

2577
01:25:06,211 --> 01:25:08,110
identified going forward.

2578
01:25:09,171 --> 01:25:10,990
It wasn't individual members kind

2579
01:25:10,991 --> 01:25:12,910
of piling on their own opinion.

2580
01:25:12,911 --> 01:25:14,850
No, I present that with the

2581
01:25:14,851 --> 01:25:16,070
case, but I appreciate that.

2582
01:25:16,071 --> 01:25:17,690
No, no, I apologize, yeah.

2583
01:25:17,691 --> 01:25:18,010
Thank you.

2584
01:25:18,011 --> 01:25:19,970
And one thing he will tell you, and

2585
01:25:19,971 --> 01:25:22,070
there's some validity to this,

2586
01:25:22,071 --> 01:25:24,330
is that when he was talking to us,

2587
01:25:24,331 --> 01:25:26,810
sometimes it wasn't clear whether,

2588
01:25:26,811 --> 01:25:28,210
in fact, you see the top of my

2589
01:25:28,211 --> 01:25:29,770
statement. I'm only responsible for

2590
01:25:29,771 --> 01:25:30,710
what I say.

2591
01:25:30,711 --> 01:25:31,711
She's not.

2592
01:25:32,571 --> 01:25:34,950
It wasn't always clear whether

2593
01:25:34,951 --> 01:25:35,951
the discussions

2594
01:25:36,951 --> 01:25:39,270
were a group of joy.

2595
01:25:39,271 --> 01:25:40,670
You know, we can't have a rolling

2596
01:25:40,671 --> 01:25:42,450
forum on voting so we really don't

2597
01:25:42,451 --> 01:25:43,930
know what's going on.

2598
01:25:43,931 --> 01:25:45,210
But in fairness to him, yes,

2599
01:25:45,211 --> 01:25:46,510
sometimes he didn't know.

2600
01:25:46,511 --> 01:25:47,890
And sometimes we were speaking for

2601
01:25:47,891 --> 01:25:48,690
more than a person.

2602
01:25:48,691 --> 01:25:49,630
Sometimes he was speaking for

2603
01:25:49,631 --> 01:25:51,450
ourselves. So that's, in fairness,

2604
01:25:51,451 --> 01:25:53,110
to him it might have been confusing.

2605
01:25:53,111 --> 01:25:54,111
Yes.

2606
01:25:54,861 --> 01:25:56,140
Thank you both, appreciate you

2607
01:25:56,141 --> 01:25:56,960
answering some of those questions. I

2608
01:25:56,961 --> 01:25:58,120
know we've got a list.

2609
01:25:59,441 --> 01:26:00,520
Senator Paffert, Senator Larson, I'm

2610
01:26:00,521 --> 01:26:01,660
not sure who was first, so that you

2611
01:26:01,661 --> 01:26:02,940
guys aren't going to hustle over.

2612
01:26:02,941 --> 01:26:04,040
I'll be real quick.

2613
01:26:04,041 --> 01:26:05,671
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2614
01:26:06,941 --> 01:26:08,320
Again, thank you both for being

2615
01:26:08,321 --> 01:26:09,880
here. Thank you for your leadership.

2616
01:26:09,881 --> 01:26:11,060
I appreciate it. I know it's not

2617
01:26:11,061 --> 01:26:12,680
easy to be here.

2618
01:26:12,681 --> 01:26:15,160
You've worked very hard.

2619
01:26:15,161 --> 01:26:17,280
Mr. Nixon, in your testimony.

2620
01:26:18,711 --> 01:26:20,810
You write his command and

2621
01:26:20,811 --> 01:26:24,210
control management style.

2622
01:26:24,211 --> 01:26:26,370
Now, you went on to talk about

2623
01:26:26,371 --> 01:26:28,210
how that was

2624
01:26:28,211 --> 01:26:29,650
needed during the financial and

2625
01:26:29,651 --> 01:26:31,210
operational discipline to an

2626
01:26:31,211 --> 01:26:32,510
organization.

2627
01:26:32,511 --> 01:26:34,130
My question to you is this.

2628
01:26:36,551 --> 01:26:38,730
Was that command and

2629
01:26:38,731 --> 01:26:40,210
command control management style,

2630
01:26:40,211 --> 01:26:42,530
did that stifle conversation among

2631
01:26:42,531 --> 01:26:44,780
you and your colleagues in the work?

2632
01:26:44,781 --> 01:26:49,020
Not for the issues that

2633
01:26:49,021 --> 01:26:50,760
he was using it for where it was

2634
01:26:50,761 --> 01:26:52,080
really effective.

2635
01:26:52,081 --> 01:26:53,740
Where we had campuses...

2636
01:26:53,741 --> 01:26:55,420
You know, that were running

2637
01:26:55,421 --> 01:26:57,740
structural deficits for years,

2638
01:26:57,741 --> 01:26:58,741
okay?

2639
01:26:59,401 --> 01:27:01,120
Where they had too many people that

2640
01:27:01,121 --> 01:27:02,700
go down that list.

2641
01:27:02,701 --> 01:27:04,240
That's something that you just don't

2642
01:27:04,241 --> 01:27:05,581
go up to people and go, hey, do you

2643
01:27:05,582 --> 01:27:07,600
want to cut your budget?

2644
01:27:07,601 --> 01:27:09,420
You got to go in and you got

2645
01:27:09,421 --> 01:27:11,260
to say, excuse me, but you

2646
01:27:11,261 --> 01:27:13,100
must do these things, okay.

2647
01:27:13,101 --> 01:27:14,440
I'll tell you where it does get a

2648
01:27:14,441 --> 01:27:16,740
little stifling is where if

2649
01:27:16,741 --> 01:27:18,440
any of us talk to a chancellor,

2650
01:27:18,441 --> 01:27:19,820
they're supposed to call him or

2651
01:27:19,821 --> 01:27:21,760
maybe talk to any of you So

2652
01:27:21,761 --> 01:27:24,380
it got a little,

2653
01:27:24,381 --> 01:27:25,680
you know, where he wanted to make

2654
01:27:25,681 --> 01:27:27,000
sure he knew everything.

2655
01:27:27,001 --> 01:27:28,560
And you can't know everything when

2656
01:27:28,561 --> 01:27:30,020
you're managing an $8 billion

2657
01:27:30,021 --> 01:27:31,021
organization.

2658
01:27:31,791 --> 01:27:33,430
Maybe he could, but I just say

2659
01:27:33,431 --> 01:27:34,410
overall.

2660
01:27:34,411 --> 01:27:36,490
So it's that kind of

2661
01:27:36,491 --> 01:27:38,690
thing. Oh, you talk to so-and-so.

2662
01:27:38,691 --> 01:27:40,050
Yeah, I did.

2663
01:27:40,051 --> 01:27:41,530
You talk to the speaker.

2664
01:27:41,531 --> 01:27:43,370
Yes, I talk to speaker,

2665
01:27:43,371 --> 01:27:45,370
that sort of thing, thank you.

2666
01:27:45,371 --> 01:27:47,330
It was sometimes fightful, but I

2667
01:27:47,331 --> 01:27:49,330
want to be clear it was an

2668
01:27:49,331 --> 01:27:51,810
absolutely necessary

2669
01:27:51,811 --> 01:27:53,920
way of doing things.

2670
01:27:53,921 --> 01:27:55,860
Because people just don't cut their

2671
01:27:55,861 --> 01:27:57,560
budgets by millions of dollars.

2672
01:27:57,561 --> 01:27:58,960
They don't let people go

2673
01:27:58,961 --> 01:28:00,320
voluntarily, they don't.

2674
01:28:00,321 --> 01:28:02,140
So when we were in that process,

2675
01:28:02,141 --> 01:28:03,721
that was extremely beneficial.

2676
01:28:04,921 --> 01:28:06,920
Would you identify

2677
01:28:06,921 --> 01:28:09,280
that management style as top-down?

2678
01:28:10,501 --> 01:28:12,540
Or would you identify a

2679
01:28:12,541 --> 01:28:14,960
style as bottom-up?

2680
01:28:14,961 --> 01:28:17,560
It's distinctly top-down.

2681
01:28:17,561 --> 01:28:19,420
And again, depending on what you're

2682
01:28:19,421 --> 01:28:21,140
trying to do.

2683
01:28:21,141 --> 01:28:22,260
That was the kind of point I was

2684
01:28:22,261 --> 01:28:23,420
trying to make at the end of the

2685
01:28:23,421 --> 01:28:24,200
quarterback thing.

2686
01:28:24,201 --> 01:28:26,020
Depends on what your trying to,

2687
01:28:26,021 --> 01:28:28,000
right? Sometimes you need a

2688
01:28:28,001 --> 01:28:29,540
top- down command and control

2689
01:28:29,541 --> 01:28:31,520
structure. What executive doesn't

2690
01:28:31,521 --> 01:28:34,120
want a top down management?

2691
01:28:34,121 --> 01:28:36,160
Who the heck wants, governor doesn't

2692
01:28:36,161 --> 01:28:37,520
wanna listen to you.

2693
01:28:37,521 --> 01:28:39,460
He doesn't,

2694
01:28:39,461 --> 01:28:41,140
wasn't that crazy about us?

2695
01:28:41,141 --> 01:28:43,080
That's a natural tension that

2696
01:28:43,081 --> 01:28:45,040
exists, but it exists for

2697
01:28:45,041 --> 01:28:46,920
a reason, okay?

2698
01:28:46,921 --> 01:28:48,760
It exists for reasons, so we try to

2699
01:28:48,761 --> 01:28:50,380
get a good decision.

2700
01:28:50,381 --> 01:28:52,440
But that management style is

2701
01:28:52,441 --> 01:28:54,550
what brought fiscal sense.

2702
01:28:54,551 --> 01:28:56,150
I understand. I understand, I'm

2703
01:28:56,151 --> 01:28:57,570
asking you about these five things

2704
01:28:57,571 --> 01:28:58,790
that you've identified.

2705
01:28:58,791 --> 01:29:00,430
It's not helpful.

2706
01:29:00,431 --> 01:29:02,430
Is that helpful or not helpful?

2707
01:29:02,431 --> 01:29:04,190
It's helpful. So I'd like to hear

2708
01:29:04,191 --> 01:29:05,010
from you.

2709
01:29:05,011 --> 01:29:06,870
How is it not helpful when you're

2710
01:29:06,871 --> 01:29:08,630
trying to move the UW system

2711
01:29:08,631 --> 01:29:09,770
forward?

2712
01:29:09,771 --> 01:29:11,230
I, like you, appreciate this

2713
01:29:11,231 --> 01:29:13,930
financial management, but we've

2714
01:29:13,931 --> 01:29:14,730
crossed that bridge.

2715
01:29:14,731 --> 01:29:16,050
We need. Now we're talking about

2716
01:29:16,051 --> 01:29:18,150
moving forward for

2717
01:29:18,151 --> 01:29:19,050
the state of Wisconsin.

2718
01:29:19,051 --> 01:29:20,930
We need to have these discussions at

2719
01:29:20,931 --> 01:29:22,670
the board level by the Board of

2720
01:29:22,671 --> 01:29:23,610
Regents.

2721
01:29:23,611 --> 01:29:24,850
And were you?

2722
01:29:24,851 --> 01:29:25,690
No.

2723
01:29:25,691 --> 01:29:27,070
And why were you not?

2724
01:29:27,071 --> 01:29:28,340
Or are you?

2725
01:29:28,341 --> 01:29:30,260
Well, in my view,

2726
01:29:30,261 --> 01:29:32,160
we're not having the discussions

2727
01:29:32,161 --> 01:29:33,760
that we should have had about the

2728
01:29:33,761 --> 01:29:36,240
major issues, OK?

2729
01:29:36,241 --> 01:29:38,100
For instance, let's just talk about

2730
01:29:38,101 --> 01:29:39,100
AI for a second.

2731
01:29:39,101 --> 01:29:40,580
We've had a meeting where half the

2732
01:29:40,581 --> 01:29:41,581
day was spent,

2733
01:29:42,521 --> 01:29:44,300
what I call the dog and pony show,

2734
01:29:44,301 --> 01:29:45,860
because we had been saying, we need

2735
01:29:45,861 --> 01:29:48,300
a meeting on AI guidelines.

2736
01:29:48,301 --> 01:29:49,800
We need one, and we need one.

2737
01:29:49,801 --> 01:29:51,140
Half the day it was a dog and a pony

2738
01:29:51,141 --> 01:29:53,000
show about the truly great

2739
01:29:53,001 --> 01:29:54,440
things happening at all our

2740
01:29:54,441 --> 01:29:55,400
campuses.

2741
01:29:55,401 --> 01:29:56,401
Nobody questioned.

2742
01:29:57,691 --> 01:30:00,230
But they're doing it without any

2743
01:30:00,231 --> 01:30:02,150
guardrails or guidelines or

2744
01:30:02,151 --> 01:30:03,890
consideration by the Board of

2745
01:30:03,891 --> 01:30:04,990
Regents.

2746
01:30:04,991 --> 01:30:06,930
And I am a big believer in letting

2747
01:30:06,931 --> 01:30:08,850
the campuses be creative

2748
01:30:08,851 --> 01:30:10,650
and do great things.

2749
01:30:10,651 --> 01:30:12,290
That's where the strength is not in

2750
01:30:12,291 --> 01:30:13,130
the Board of Regent.

2751
01:30:13,131 --> 01:30:16,030
The strength is in the system.

2752
01:30:16,031 --> 01:30:17,030
You've got to let them.

2753
01:30:17,031 --> 01:30:18,850
But we're supposed to, just like

2754
01:30:18,851 --> 01:30:21,010
you are in this committee,

2755
01:30:21,011 --> 01:30:22,630
you're supposed provide some

2756
01:30:22,631 --> 01:30:24,170
oversight and some guidance.

2757
01:30:24,171 --> 01:30:25,350
We are too.

2758
01:30:25,351 --> 01:30:27,790
And in those kinds of situations,

2759
01:30:27,791 --> 01:30:31,110
there was a reluctance, and it was

2760
01:30:31,111 --> 01:30:32,750
wanting to control the entire

2761
01:30:32,751 --> 01:30:34,730
process from beginning to end,

2762
01:30:34,731 --> 01:30:36,250
rather than letting us, well,

2763
01:30:36,251 --> 01:30:37,770
sometimes make mistakes.

2764
01:30:37,771 --> 01:30:39,210
I'm sure this committee's never made

2765
01:30:39,211 --> 01:30:40,150
a mistake.

2766
01:30:40,151 --> 01:30:41,690
The Board of Regents might have a

2767
01:30:41,691 --> 01:30:42,930
couple times.

2768
01:30:42,931 --> 01:30:44,350
Okay, don't contest that, but

2769
01:30:44,351 --> 01:30:45,630
really, you've got to have some

2770
01:30:45,631 --> 01:30:47,570
public discussion on these

2771
01:30:47,571 --> 01:30:48,300
issues.

2772
01:30:48,301 --> 01:30:50,400
And not to quote words, thank you.

2773
01:30:50,401 --> 01:30:51,220
Oh, you can try.

2774
01:30:51,221 --> 01:30:53,160
No, no, not to put words in

2775
01:30:53,161 --> 01:30:54,161
your mouth,

2776
01:30:55,721 --> 01:30:57,080
Board President.

2777
01:30:57,081 --> 01:30:59,580
But did you

2778
01:30:59,581 --> 01:31:02,660
two feel

2779
01:31:02,661 --> 01:31:05,220
that there was a command and control

2780
01:31:05,221 --> 01:31:07,400
management style as

2781
01:31:07,401 --> 01:31:08,740
far as moving forward

2782
01:31:10,701 --> 01:31:12,540
on innovation in the

2783
01:31:12,541 --> 01:31:13,541
UW system?

2784
01:31:14,261 --> 01:31:16,160
I do believe that and

2785
01:31:16,161 --> 01:31:17,840
I think, you know, there are many

2786
01:31:17,841 --> 01:31:19,960
reasons, again, many that I can't

2787
01:31:19,961 --> 01:31:22,300
discuss but I

2788
01:31:22,301 --> 01:31:23,860
think when you're under a lot of

2789
01:31:23,861 --> 01:31:25,940
pressure in this position,

2790
01:31:28,041 --> 01:31:29,820
sometimes thought is given and

2791
01:31:29,821 --> 01:31:31,680
perhaps that's the best way to go

2792
01:31:31,681 --> 01:31:33,880
about things and the board,

2793
01:31:33,881 --> 01:31:36,320
I think didn't

2794
01:31:36,321 --> 01:31:37,420
find it the most helpful.

2795
01:31:38,811 --> 01:31:40,050
And again, I have no further

2796
01:31:40,051 --> 01:31:41,750
questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2797
01:31:41,751 --> 01:31:43,770
Thank you both for your dedication

2798
01:31:43,771 --> 01:31:45,150
and leadership.

2799
01:31:45,151 --> 01:31:46,690
Thank you very much.

2800
01:31:46,691 --> 01:31:46,990
Thank you.

2801
01:31:46,991 --> 01:31:49,130
Senator Larson, then Senator

2802
01:31:49,131 --> 01:31:50,490
Osborne-Garof.

2803
01:31:50,491 --> 01:31:51,491
Thank you.

2804
01:31:52,331 --> 01:31:53,870
And again, thank you both for your

2805
01:31:53,871 --> 01:31:55,450
service as a follower for the last

2806
01:31:55,451 --> 01:31:57,370
question I asked about why

2807
01:31:57,371 --> 01:31:59,230
you're doing the roles

2808
01:31:59,231 --> 01:32:01,050
that you're doing in your

2809
01:32:01,051 --> 01:32:02,650
service to our states.

2810
01:32:02,651 --> 01:32:04,150
Actually, at the end of the day,

2811
01:32:04,151 --> 01:32:05,151
too.

2812
01:32:05,611 --> 01:32:06,770
Yeah.

2813
01:32:06,771 --> 01:32:08,590
So as we are turning the

2814
01:32:08,591 --> 01:32:09,591
page,

2815
01:32:10,711 --> 01:32:12,770
There's a sense

2816
01:32:12,771 --> 01:32:14,610
of what

2817
01:32:14,611 --> 01:32:16,950
went not

2818
01:32:16,951 --> 01:32:18,130
as well.

2819
01:32:18,131 --> 01:32:21,350
And so, as we are moving forward,

2820
01:32:21,351 --> 01:32:23,051
and you are moving forward,

2821
01:32:24,731 --> 01:32:26,730
what can the legislature

2822
01:32:26,731 --> 01:32:28,670
do to make sure

2823
01:32:28,671 --> 01:32:30,990
that our universities are

2824
01:32:30,991 --> 01:32:33,670
as successful as possible in

2825
01:32:33,671 --> 01:32:35,770
recruiting quality

2826
01:32:35,771 --> 01:32:37,590
chancellors, retaining quality

2827
01:32:37,591 --> 01:32:39,490
chancellors, and

2828
01:32:39,491 --> 01:32:41,730
bringing in a

2829
01:32:41,731 --> 01:32:44,070
new system president that

2830
01:32:44,071 --> 01:32:45,690
is going to be responsive to the

2831
01:32:45,691 --> 01:32:47,510
needs of students

2832
01:32:47,511 --> 01:32:49,590
and to the citizens

2833
01:32:49,591 --> 01:32:51,430
of Wisconsin and to faculty

2834
01:32:51,431 --> 01:32:53,970
and to everybody who interacts with

2835
01:32:53,971 --> 01:32:55,371
our state's largest employers.

2836
01:32:57,861 --> 01:33:00,040
You of course have a good question,

2837
01:33:00,041 --> 01:33:01,041
but that was a good one.

2838
01:33:06,051 --> 01:33:07,410
Thank you, Senator Larson.

2839
01:33:07,411 --> 01:33:08,411
I'll start.

2840
01:33:09,461 --> 01:33:11,520
Excellent question.

2841
01:33:11,521 --> 01:33:13,760
I think that as we move forward

2842
01:33:13,761 --> 01:33:15,860
into the future,

2843
01:33:15,861 --> 01:33:18,180
and I apologize if I

2844
01:33:18,181 --> 01:33:19,960
alluded to that this is

2845
01:33:19,961 --> 01:33:21,860
divisiveness, that's not what I

2846
01:33:21,861 --> 01:33:23,360
was referring to and I'm sorry,

2847
01:33:24,801 --> 01:33:26,740
I really appreciate

2848
01:33:26,741 --> 01:33:28,680
all of you in having this

2849
01:33:28,681 --> 01:33:30,660
discussion because I think what

2850
01:33:30,661 --> 01:33:32,720
we need to make clear to

2851
01:33:32,721 --> 01:33:34,600
everyone in this entire state

2852
01:33:34,601 --> 01:33:37,140
is how much we all value

2853
01:33:37,141 --> 01:33:38,810
the universities.

2854
01:33:38,811 --> 01:33:40,630
And I know that when I

2855
01:33:40,631 --> 01:33:43,630
have conversations with everyone,

2856
01:33:43,631 --> 01:33:45,230
legislators on both sides of the

2857
01:33:45,231 --> 01:33:47,210
aisle, people that I have nothing

2858
01:33:47,211 --> 01:33:49,110
in common with, when you bring up

2859
01:33:49,111 --> 01:33:50,850
the University of Wisconsin, there's

2860
01:33:50,851 --> 01:33:52,030
pride.

2861
01:33:52,031 --> 01:33:54,210
And I don't think the system,

2862
01:33:54,211 --> 01:33:56,110
the universities itself, has

2863
01:33:56,111 --> 01:33:57,850
done a very good job in bragging

2864
01:33:57,851 --> 01:33:59,690
about all the incredible things that

2865
01:33:59,691 --> 01:34:00,670
we've done.

2866
01:34:00,671 --> 01:34:02,610
And we continue to do,

2867
01:34:02,611 --> 01:34:04,630
and I think that if we get the

2868
01:34:04,631 --> 01:34:07,190
messaging out there together,

2869
01:34:07,191 --> 01:34:09,110
we are what makes this state

2870
01:34:09,111 --> 01:34:09,890
run.

2871
01:34:09,891 --> 01:34:12,130
The Wisconsin idea is

2872
01:34:12,131 --> 01:34:13,970
so near and dear to so many

2873
01:34:13,971 --> 01:34:15,810
of us that the

2874
01:34:15,811 --> 01:34:17,650
opportunity to have knowledge

2875
01:34:17,651 --> 01:34:19,830
in the classroom that

2876
01:34:19,831 --> 01:34:21,790
turns out to the state and

2877
01:34:21,791 --> 01:34:23,650
the peoples and the people

2878
01:34:23,651 --> 01:34:25,750
of the state, and beyond.

2879
01:34:25,751 --> 01:34:27,450
That is what we're here for, right?

2880
01:34:27,451 --> 01:34:29,550
We're here with that knowledge and

2881
01:34:29,551 --> 01:34:30,630
everywhere.

2882
01:34:30,631 --> 01:34:32,530
Beyond not just our country,

2883
01:34:32,531 --> 01:34:34,410
but the world. I mean we are valued

2884
01:34:34,411 --> 01:34:36,230
because the Wisconsin idea

2885
01:34:36,231 --> 01:34:38,510
and all that we accomplished and

2886
01:34:38,511 --> 01:34:40,450
the benefits that we receive

2887
01:34:40,451 --> 01:34:41,870
from this university.

2888
01:34:41,871 --> 01:34:43,770
And I think we have to give back

2889
01:34:43,771 --> 01:34:46,030
to that. We have to get back to

2890
01:34:46,031 --> 01:34:48,070
how important it is for educating

2891
01:34:48,071 --> 01:34:49,930
our people of the state.

2892
01:34:49,931 --> 01:34:51,550
And I'm not talking just 18 year

2893
01:34:51,551 --> 01:34:53,670
olds, I'm talking about everyone.

2894
01:34:53,671 --> 01:34:55,310
And I want more, I think, than we

2895
01:34:55,311 --> 01:34:56,950
had this great initiative at the

2896
01:34:56,951 --> 01:34:58,870
universities just recently

2897
01:34:58,871 --> 01:35:01,250
where the wonderful credit union has

2898
01:35:01,251 --> 01:35:03,230
given money so we can have online

2899
01:35:03,231 --> 01:35:05,070
courses for anybody living in the

2900
01:35:05,071 --> 01:35:06,810
state, I think there's nine

2901
01:35:06,811 --> 01:35:08,830
different courses for AI.

2902
01:35:08,831 --> 01:35:10,910
I mean, it's wonderful that

2903
01:35:10,911 --> 01:35:12,810
you can go on there now, like

2904
01:35:12,811 --> 01:35:14,430
you'll see all sorts of other

2905
01:35:14,431 --> 01:35:15,790
universities trying to get in.

2906
01:35:15,791 --> 01:35:18,090
This is free for our citizens.

2907
01:35:18,091 --> 01:35:19,390
And that's what we're here for.

2908
01:35:19,391 --> 01:35:21,310
And I think going forward, in a

2909
01:35:21,311 --> 01:35:22,950
leader, we want someone to see the

2910
01:35:22,951 --> 01:35:24,050
future.

2911
01:35:24,051 --> 01:35:26,410
We, I don't, someone that can,

2912
01:35:26,411 --> 01:35:28,930
that bring us to where we can

2913
01:35:28,931 --> 01:35:30,950
get the resources that we need for

2914
01:35:30,951 --> 01:35:32,590
our students and our faculty and our

2915
01:35:32,591 --> 01:35:34,650
staff. And they're so deserving.

2916
01:35:34,651 --> 01:35:36,290
I mean, when I spend time with

2917
01:35:36,291 --> 01:35:37,551
students on the campuses...

2918
01:35:39,801 --> 01:35:41,640
I sort of probably use leave,

2919
01:35:41,641 --> 01:35:43,740
but I was up at UW-River

2920
01:35:43,741 --> 01:35:47,680
Falls and I was meeting with D3

2921
01:35:47,681 --> 01:35:49,481
students, athletes.

2922
01:35:50,921 --> 01:35:52,840
And it just amazed

2923
01:35:52,841 --> 01:35:54,720
me. Their dedication, I

2924
01:35:54,721 --> 01:35:55,840
talked to one kid.

2925
01:35:55,841 --> 01:35:57,880
Thank you. Grew up on a farm up

2926
01:35:57,881 --> 01:35:59,740
there, and he was so

2927
01:35:59,741 --> 01:36:00,800
thrilled that he got to play

2928
01:36:00,801 --> 01:36:02,640
football at River Falls.

2929
01:36:02,641 --> 01:36:03,980
And you know how well their team has

2930
01:36:03,981 --> 01:36:04,780
done.

2931
01:36:04,781 --> 01:36:06,780
And he was so excited that

2932
01:36:06,781 --> 01:36:08,060
he had to talk to me, he didn't even

2933
01:36:08,061 --> 01:36:10,000
know what a region was, but that

2934
01:36:10,001 --> 01:36:11,530
I'm listening to him.

2935
01:36:11,531 --> 01:36:13,650
He told me his daily schedule of

2936
01:36:13,651 --> 01:36:15,490
when he would get up at 4 o'clock

2937
01:36:15,491 --> 01:36:17,230
in the morning, he'd go and work

2938
01:36:17,231 --> 01:36:19,130
out, then he would go to his job

2939
01:36:19,131 --> 01:36:21,030
at a diner working so

2940
01:36:21,031 --> 01:36:22,810
hard because his family didn't have

2941
01:36:22,811 --> 01:36:24,770
the money to send him, and then

2942
01:36:24,771 --> 01:36:26,590
he'd back to practice, then he go to

2943
01:36:26,591 --> 01:36:28,330
class, and then go back to work, and

2944
01:36:28,331 --> 01:36:29,650
back to practice.

2945
01:36:29,651 --> 01:36:31,450
And I was embarrassed because I

2946
01:36:31,451 --> 01:36:32,250
started to cry.

2947
01:36:32,251 --> 01:36:33,650
I mean, it was unbelievable.

2948
01:36:33,651 --> 01:36:35,550
The dedication of our students and

2949
01:36:35,551 --> 01:36:37,430
our faculty and

2950
01:36:37,431 --> 01:36:39,390
what they want

2951
01:36:39,391 --> 01:36:41,390
to better their futures

2952
01:36:41,391 --> 01:36:43,370
and the futures of their children

2953
01:36:43,371 --> 01:36:45,230
and to make their families proud

2954
01:36:45,231 --> 01:36:47,250
and those around them, that's

2955
01:36:47,251 --> 01:36:48,850
why we're all here.

2956
01:36:48,851 --> 01:36:50,910
So maybe I'm looking for a unicorn

2957
01:36:50,911 --> 01:36:51,810
and a president.

2958
01:36:51,811 --> 01:36:53,710
I don't know, but someone that

2959
01:36:53,711 --> 01:36:55,630
sees the full vision and what

2960
01:36:55,631 --> 01:36:57,590
we're here for that can make

2961
01:36:57,591 --> 01:36:59,490
bold decisions along with

2962
01:36:59,491 --> 01:37:00,610
the board of regents.

2963
01:37:00,611 --> 01:37:02,710
I mean, for me to have

2964
01:37:02,711 --> 01:37:04,590
a successful president and

2965
01:37:04,591 --> 01:37:06,630
a successful board, we move

2966
01:37:06,631 --> 01:37:07,450
in sync.

2967
01:37:07,451 --> 01:37:09,430
We move in sync whether there are

2968
01:37:09,431 --> 01:37:11,250
disagreements below, underneath, in

2969
01:37:11,251 --> 01:37:12,251
closed session.

2970
01:37:13,151 --> 01:37:15,050
We move together as

2971
01:37:15,051 --> 01:37:16,610
one voice because we have one

2972
01:37:16,611 --> 01:37:17,590
mission.

2973
01:37:17,591 --> 01:37:19,850
And that's what I'm hoping for.

2974
01:37:19,851 --> 01:37:21,410
I think your question was the

2975
01:37:21,411 --> 01:37:22,411
legislature.

2976
01:37:22,951 --> 01:37:24,270
Didn't you ask what the legislature

2977
01:37:24,271 --> 01:37:26,030
could do? Or did I understand the

2978
01:37:26,031 --> 01:37:27,250
question?

2979
01:37:27,251 --> 01:37:28,850
Whoever asked the question.

2980
01:37:30,921 --> 01:37:32,640
And part of it, yeah, what the

2981
01:37:32,641 --> 01:37:34,620
legislature can do to make sure that

2982
01:37:34,621 --> 01:37:34,621
you're...

2983
01:37:34,622 --> 01:37:36,290
Here's a couple of things you need

2984
01:37:36,291 --> 01:37:38,210
to think about.

2985
01:37:38,211 --> 01:37:40,430
Okay, number one, you need,

2986
01:37:40,431 --> 01:37:42,570
you understand we're competing on

2987
01:37:42,571 --> 01:37:45,150
the national level for

2988
01:37:45,151 --> 01:37:46,530
talent.

2989
01:37:46,531 --> 01:37:48,530
Okay, so we're talking like the

2990
01:37:48,531 --> 01:37:50,150
fusions. We're getting close to

2991
01:37:50,151 --> 01:37:51,830
fusion here in Wisconsin.

2992
01:37:51,831 --> 01:37:52,831
Are you interested? Thank you.

2993
01:37:53,871 --> 01:37:55,710
But we've got to pay

2994
01:37:55,711 --> 01:37:58,590
what they would make at

2995
01:37:58,591 --> 01:37:59,591
MIT,

2996
01:38:00,431 --> 01:38:01,670
all those places.

2997
01:38:01,671 --> 01:38:04,050
We've got be able to pay them

2998
01:38:04,051 --> 01:38:05,450
that money.

2999
01:38:05,451 --> 01:38:06,870
The other thing is, I'm worried

3000
01:38:06,871 --> 01:38:08,810
about becoming the fire

3001
01:38:08,811 --> 01:38:10,750
team for university

3002
01:38:10,751 --> 01:38:11,751
leadership.

3003
01:38:13,421 --> 01:38:15,920
We grow these people,

3004
01:38:15,921 --> 01:38:17,460
but because of what we pay them,

3005
01:38:17,461 --> 01:38:19,340
relative to what the market

3006
01:38:19,341 --> 01:38:20,260
is elsewhere.

3007
01:38:20,261 --> 01:38:22,200
Now you can say they're paid too

3008
01:38:22,201 --> 01:38:24,140
much. I'm being paid nothing,

3009
01:38:24,141 --> 01:38:25,980
so let me put it back there.

3010
01:38:25,981 --> 01:38:28,080
But if you use that

3011
01:38:28,081 --> 01:38:29,940
same logic, you should pay Jordan

3012
01:38:29,941 --> 01:38:31,860
Love $600,000

3013
01:38:31,861 --> 01:38:33,501
because he's in Green Bay.

3014
01:38:34,541 --> 01:38:36,400
You've got to compete in the

3015
01:38:36,401 --> 01:38:38,300
market you're in, so you

3016
01:38:38,301 --> 01:38:39,640
need to be aware of that.

3017
01:38:39,641 --> 01:38:41,740
What you let us do and what you

3018
01:38:41,741 --> 01:38:43,800
fund for us, that's up to you.

3019
01:38:43,801 --> 01:38:45,540
You are the elected officials.

3020
01:38:45,541 --> 01:38:47,100
That's sort of number one.

3021
01:38:47,101 --> 01:38:49,410
Number two is I would really like...

3022
01:38:49,411 --> 01:38:51,830
Legislators to go visit

3023
01:38:51,831 --> 01:38:53,790
campuses, because

3024
01:38:53,791 --> 01:38:55,750
the sense I get is

3025
01:38:55,751 --> 01:38:58,190
that to a number of legislators,

3026
01:38:58,191 --> 01:39:00,090
they're Mr. Potatoheads.

3027
01:39:00,091 --> 01:39:01,760
They're all potatoes.

3028
01:39:01,761 --> 01:39:03,720
But if you have different hats and

3029
01:39:03,721 --> 01:39:05,760
different ears and stuff, when you

3030
01:39:05,761 --> 01:39:08,340
go to the campuses, you understand

3031
01:39:08,341 --> 01:39:10,300
their unique qualities

3032
01:39:10,301 --> 01:39:12,000
and what they do.

3033
01:39:12,001 --> 01:39:13,560
And by the way, if you're getting a

3034
01:39:13,561 --> 01:39:15,420
little down and you want to get

3035
01:39:15,421 --> 01:39:17,040
kind of pumped up, you go talk to

3036
01:39:17,041 --> 01:39:18,180
these kids and these faculty

3037
01:39:18,181 --> 01:39:18,960
members.

3038
01:39:18,961 --> 01:39:20,420
And if you think you're having a bad

3039
01:39:20,421 --> 01:39:21,480
day, that'll help.

3040
01:39:21,481 --> 01:39:23,500
But to understand the uniqueness,

3041
01:39:23,501 --> 01:39:24,960
and that's the other thing we're

3042
01:39:24,961 --> 01:39:27,200
pushing toward, is each campus

3043
01:39:27,201 --> 01:39:28,390
sort of.

3044
01:39:28,391 --> 01:39:30,430
Having a specialty, but then

3045
01:39:30,431 --> 01:39:32,310
everybody's got to teach health

3046
01:39:32,311 --> 01:39:33,750
care. Everybody's got to teach

3047
01:39:33,751 --> 01:39:35,090
teachers. So I would like the

3048
01:39:35,091 --> 01:39:37,190
legislators to be aware

3049
01:39:37,191 --> 01:39:39,470
that we compete in a, particularly

3050
01:39:39,471 --> 01:39:41,330
Madison, competes in a

3051
01:39:41,331 --> 01:39:43,470
national market for talent.

3052
01:39:43,471 --> 01:39:45,190
And you've got to pay whatever that

3053
01:39:45,191 --> 01:39:46,670
market is, whether you like it or

3054
01:39:46,671 --> 01:39:47,970
not.

3055
01:39:47,971 --> 01:39:49,890
The other thing is I would light the

3056
01:39:49,891 --> 01:39:51,650
legislators, to the extent they

3057
01:39:51,651 --> 01:39:53,650
don't, For the number of you do,

3058
01:39:53,651 --> 01:39:55,490
go and visit individual

3059
01:39:55,491 --> 01:39:56,660
campuses.

3060
01:39:56,661 --> 01:39:58,520
Okay, and see what's

3061
01:39:58,521 --> 01:40:00,140
on those campuses talk to those

3062
01:40:00,141 --> 01:40:02,300
students talk to the staff

3063
01:40:02,301 --> 01:40:04,680
Talk to those faculty because

3064
01:40:04,681 --> 01:40:06,680
it helps Bring it

3065
01:40:06,681 --> 01:40:08,780
real Okay,

3066
01:40:08,781 --> 01:40:11,580
I know I know question anybody

3067
01:40:11,581 --> 01:40:12,900
Good thing here.

3068
01:40:12,901 --> 01:40:14,880
I just simply don't I don't

3069
01:40:14,881 --> 01:40:16,020
think people that put themselves

3070
01:40:16,021 --> 01:40:17,980
forward in public life and

3071
01:40:17,981 --> 01:40:19,900
public service are

3072
01:40:19,901 --> 01:40:21,980
Okay, what we're disagreeing about

3073
01:40:21,981 --> 01:40:23,920
sometimes is how to

3074
01:40:23,921 --> 01:40:25,900
do things. I would like to have

3075
01:40:25,901 --> 01:40:27,560
conversations with legislators

3076
01:40:27,561 --> 01:40:28,720
personally.

3077
01:40:28,721 --> 01:40:30,360
I know I have talked to the Vice

3078
01:40:30,361 --> 01:40:31,980
Chair, I've been to your office, you

3079
01:40:31,981 --> 01:40:33,220
may not remember.

3080
01:40:33,221 --> 01:40:35,300
Oh, I remember you.

3081
01:40:35,301 --> 01:40:36,720
Yeah, most people do.

3082
01:40:36,721 --> 01:40:38,440
I have as well.

3083
01:40:38,441 --> 01:40:40,520
I talk to the speaker every

3084
01:40:40,521 --> 01:40:42,580
year before, the past

3085
01:40:42,581 --> 01:40:43,920
two years I've gone to talk to the

3086
01:40:43,921 --> 01:40:45,640
speaker and I said, what are your

3087
01:40:45,641 --> 01:40:47,090
legislative priorities?

3088
01:40:47,091 --> 01:40:49,030
Okay, I want to know.

3089
01:40:49,031 --> 01:40:50,490
I've actually suggested bringing

3090
01:40:50,491 --> 01:40:52,470
legislative leaders into meet

3091
01:40:52,471 --> 01:40:54,310
with the whore of regions But that

3092
01:40:54,311 --> 01:40:55,930
was something else that was not met

3093
01:40:55,931 --> 01:40:56,931
with

3094
01:40:59,171 --> 01:41:01,110
Okay, if we invite you if we

3095
01:41:01,111 --> 01:41:03,050
actually invite you we'd like you to

3096
01:41:03,051 --> 01:41:05,350
come so we can keep this dialog

3097
01:41:05,351 --> 01:41:07,450
going We

3098
01:41:07,451 --> 01:41:08,670
want the same things.

3099
01:41:08,671 --> 01:41:10,850
I think we want to say things as

3100
01:41:10,851 --> 01:41:12,970
far as I can tell we do How

3101
01:41:12,971 --> 01:41:14,890
to get there I think is where we're

3102
01:41:14,891 --> 01:41:17,010
running up against the rub And I

3103
01:41:17,011 --> 01:41:18,570
kind of wish this never would have

3104
01:41:18,571 --> 01:41:19,571
happened.

3105
01:41:19,991 --> 01:41:21,430
So we're all going to deal with it.

3106
01:41:21,431 --> 01:41:22,930
And I understand why you're asking

3107
01:41:22,931 --> 01:41:23,931
me the question.

3108
01:41:24,911 --> 01:41:26,240
I love questions.

3109
01:41:26,241 --> 01:41:28,100
Yes, I got a couple here,

3110
01:41:28,101 --> 01:41:30,020
jot more down as Senator

3111
01:41:30,021 --> 01:41:32,020
Larson has made

3112
01:41:32,021 --> 01:41:33,140
clear.

3113
01:41:33,141 --> 01:41:34,360
So you talked about earlier

3114
01:41:34,361 --> 01:41:35,361
transformative leaders.

3115
01:41:36,761 --> 01:41:38,820
I would just say as we look at

3116
01:41:38,821 --> 01:41:40,660
the budget, I've jotted

3117
01:41:40,661 --> 01:41:41,500
some things down here.

3118
01:41:41,501 --> 01:41:43,580
We have $250 million

3119
01:41:43,581 --> 01:41:44,880
in new revenue that was brought in

3120
01:41:44,881 --> 01:41:45,940
the last budget.

3121
01:41:45,941 --> 01:41:47,960
We got $50 million in GPR for

3122
01:41:47,961 --> 01:41:49,600
the athletic facility.

3123
01:41:49,601 --> 01:41:51,740
We've got legislation

3124
01:41:51,741 --> 01:41:53,460
that NIL...

3125
01:41:53,461 --> 01:41:55,460
Just in the last floor session, got

3126
01:41:55,461 --> 01:41:57,920
over the final little bit there.

3127
01:41:57,921 --> 01:41:59,520
That was a close one.

3128
01:41:59,521 --> 01:42:01,980
It was close, but it got there.

3129
01:42:01,981 --> 01:42:03,500
Health care related wise, I mean

3130
01:42:03,501 --> 01:42:05,380
numerous buildings for health care,

3131
01:42:05,381 --> 01:42:06,900
hundreds of millions of dollars for

3132
01:42:06,901 --> 01:42:08,160
health care.

3133
01:42:08,161 --> 01:42:09,560
I think he did some pretty amazing

3134
01:42:09,561 --> 01:42:10,980
things and was transformative in

3135
01:42:10,981 --> 01:42:12,820
regards to getting

3136
01:42:12,821 --> 01:42:14,500
things within this budget and

3137
01:42:14,501 --> 01:42:15,501
policy.

3138
01:42:16,201 --> 01:42:17,560
I was a little bit kind of boned

3139
01:42:17,561 --> 01:42:19,440
after that budget was

3140
01:42:19,441 --> 01:42:21,160
passed, that then there was a 5%

3141
01:42:21,161 --> 01:42:23,870
increase amongst tuition.

3142
01:42:23,871 --> 01:42:25,690
And recently I just heard

3143
01:42:25,691 --> 01:42:27,710
that there's a possible another 2%

3144
01:42:27,711 --> 01:42:29,230
increase in tuition.

3145
01:42:29,231 --> 01:42:31,010
I guess my question is, is that

3146
01:42:31,011 --> 01:42:33,010
correct? I'm kind of curious because

3147
01:42:33,011 --> 01:42:34,130
when we're thinking transformative

3148
01:42:34,131 --> 01:42:35,370
leaders, I think he's done some

3149
01:42:35,371 --> 01:42:36,930
pretty amazing things here and still

3150
01:42:36,931 --> 01:42:38,290
there was an increase and now

3151
01:42:38,291 --> 01:42:39,490
looking at another potential

3152
01:42:39,491 --> 01:42:40,850
increase.

3153
01:42:40,851 --> 01:42:42,030
You know, it's pretty contentious in

3154
01:42:42,031 --> 01:42:43,630
this building at times.

3155
01:42:43,631 --> 01:42:45,630
And when this gentleman did come to

3156
01:42:45,631 --> 01:42:47,350
the office and we worked through

3157
01:42:47,351 --> 01:42:48,411
some of this stuff.

3158
01:42:49,651 --> 01:42:51,470
It's a rough atmosphere to be in

3159
01:42:51,471 --> 01:42:53,390
here. So as

3160
01:42:53,391 --> 01:42:55,550
you are looking for

3161
01:42:55,551 --> 01:42:57,510
somebody to fill this place,

3162
01:42:57,511 --> 01:42:59,370
I hope that there's

3163
01:42:59,371 --> 01:43:01,470
some sort of demeanor that Rothman

3164
01:43:01,471 --> 01:43:03,630
had that is able to work across

3165
01:43:03,631 --> 01:43:05,550
party lines and actually get things

3166
01:43:05,551 --> 01:43:06,550
done.

3167
01:43:06,551 --> 01:43:08,430
Because in this building

3168
01:43:08,431 --> 01:43:10,610
we talk a lot and a lot doesn't

3169
01:43:10,611 --> 01:43:11,611
get done.

3170
01:43:12,291 --> 01:43:13,670
It's frustrating.

3171
01:43:13,671 --> 01:43:15,170
And you know you get to do it, it's

3172
01:43:15,171 --> 01:43:16,230
not just one person.

3173
01:43:16,231 --> 01:43:18,550
It's many things that come together,

3174
01:43:18,551 --> 01:43:20,120
you know.

3175
01:43:20,121 --> 01:43:22,020
But I hope that as you find a

3176
01:43:22,021 --> 01:43:23,880
transformative person, whoever that

3177
01:43:23,881 --> 01:43:25,760
might be, that these discussions

3178
01:43:25,761 --> 01:43:27,600
and this policy continue to

3179
01:43:27,601 --> 01:43:29,660
be worked on and not just one side

3180
01:43:29,661 --> 01:43:31,400
or another.

3181
01:43:31,401 --> 01:43:33,640
And then I will just add here that,

3182
01:43:33,641 --> 01:43:35,460
you know, I appreciate

3183
01:43:35,461 --> 01:43:37,020
all the info that you have provided

3184
01:43:37,021 --> 01:43:38,980
here today. And as we talk

3185
01:43:38,981 --> 01:43:40,780
about transformative kind of

3186
01:43:40,781 --> 01:43:41,640
leadership.

3187
01:43:41,641 --> 01:43:43,560
I look for not the

3188
01:43:43,561 --> 01:43:45,160
great luck, just get to the point,

3189
01:43:45,161 --> 01:43:46,440
tell me what it is and let's get it

3190
01:43:46,441 --> 01:43:47,240
done.

3191
01:43:47,241 --> 01:43:48,820
I hope that when you go back and

3192
01:43:48,821 --> 01:43:50,140
speak with your regents that you are

3193
01:43:50,141 --> 01:43:51,840
not in some way punished for the

3194
01:43:51,841 --> 01:43:53,260
things that you have discussed here

3195
01:43:53,261 --> 01:43:55,180
today and that folks continue

3196
01:43:55,181 --> 01:43:57,200
to support you on your board there

3197
01:43:57,201 --> 01:43:59,800
because, again,

3198
01:43:59,801 --> 01:44:01,840
I hope this has been a productive

3199
01:44:01,841 --> 01:44:03,780
conversation that's not punitive in

3200
01:44:03,781 --> 01:44:04,781
any way towards you, sir.

3201
01:44:06,421 --> 01:44:08,120
There's a reason we were both sent,

3202
01:44:08,121 --> 01:44:09,640
as you might be able to tell,

3203
01:44:09,641 --> 01:44:10,960
there's a little difference in style

3204
01:44:10,961 --> 01:44:12,210
here.

3205
01:44:12,211 --> 01:44:14,230
I just hope that it continues to be

3206
01:44:14,231 --> 01:44:18,270
productive, and nobody is silenced.

3207
01:44:18,271 --> 01:44:19,370
That's all.

3208
01:44:19,371 --> 01:44:20,770
But 2% increases.

3209
01:44:20,771 --> 01:44:22,290
I've heard that is that coming this

3210
01:44:22,291 --> 01:44:23,291
way.

3211
01:44:24,521 --> 01:44:26,540
I will try to answer.

3212
01:44:26,541 --> 01:44:29,260
I know you mentioned Mr.

3213
01:44:29,261 --> 01:44:30,821
Rothman being

3214
01:44:32,561 --> 01:44:34,380
advocating for the universities.

3215
01:44:34,381 --> 01:44:36,140
Absolutely advocated for us.

3216
01:44:36,141 --> 01:44:38,120
And I am so pleased that

3217
01:44:38,121 --> 01:44:40,020
he really went in there

3218
01:44:40,021 --> 01:44:42,020
and advocated, along with many other

3219
01:44:42,021 --> 01:44:43,840
people from the system and from

3220
01:44:43,841 --> 01:44:45,120
the campuses.

3221
01:44:45,121 --> 01:44:46,580
And it was a group effort.

3222
01:44:46,581 --> 01:44:47,640
It was a great effort.

3223
01:44:47,641 --> 01:44:49,560
And in the end, so

3224
01:44:49,561 --> 01:44:51,040
pleased that I...

3225
01:44:51,041 --> 01:44:53,160
That both the legislature

3226
01:44:53,161 --> 01:44:55,140
and our governor got it

3227
01:44:55,141 --> 01:44:57,140
done. I mean, this

3228
01:44:57,141 --> 01:44:59,220
is the governor's budget,

3229
01:44:59,221 --> 01:45:00,860
and the compromises that were made

3230
01:45:00,861 --> 01:45:02,800
in the end benefited us

3231
01:45:02,801 --> 01:45:04,420
greatly, and we are very, very

3232
01:45:04,421 --> 01:45:06,170
grateful for that.

3233
01:45:06,171 --> 01:45:08,090
I think as far

3234
01:45:08,091 --> 01:45:10,070
as Mr.

3235
01:45:10,071 --> 01:45:11,890
Rothman, I think, you know, as any

3236
01:45:11,891 --> 01:45:13,930
good leader should do, he relied on

3237
01:45:13,931 --> 01:45:15,670
many other people to get it done as

3238
01:45:15,671 --> 01:45:16,450
well.

3239
01:45:16,451 --> 01:45:18,190
So we are grateful for that.

3240
01:45:18,191 --> 01:45:20,650
And as far a tuition increase,

3241
01:45:20,651 --> 01:45:22,610
you now, for example,

3242
01:45:22,611 --> 01:45:24,570
what we need, I have heard many

3243
01:45:24,571 --> 01:45:26,630
times from the wonderful Chancellor

3244
01:45:26,631 --> 01:45:29,770
Beebe of La Crosse who says,

3245
01:45:29,771 --> 01:45:32,170
we have a demographic cliff.

3246
01:45:32,171 --> 01:45:34,810
And I just toured the campus again.

3247
01:45:34,811 --> 01:45:37,390
I try to go to the campus as often.

3248
01:45:37,391 --> 01:45:39,190
We have a demographic clip, but I've

3249
01:45:39,191 --> 01:45:41,070
got kids that I can't take.

3250
01:45:41,071 --> 01:45:42,050
I've gotten students that are

3251
01:45:42,051 --> 01:45:43,190
applying.

3252
01:45:43,191 --> 01:45:44,350
And he showed me, of course, they

3253
01:45:44,351 --> 01:45:45,750
always like to show me the terror,

3254
01:45:45,751 --> 01:45:47,170
like the nightmare of buildings that

3255
01:45:47,171 --> 01:45:49,110
you see with the wires coming down.

3256
01:45:49,111 --> 01:45:50,330
But this was a dorm.

3257
01:45:50,331 --> 01:45:51,430
He's like, I don't have no place to

3258
01:45:51,431 --> 01:45:53,410
put them. I would love to take more

3259
01:45:53,411 --> 01:45:55,250
students. And so it seems like

3260
01:45:55,251 --> 01:45:56,900
building, building, building, but.

3261
01:45:56,901 --> 01:45:59,020
When we want our campuses to grow,

3262
01:45:59,021 --> 01:46:00,860
you can't let

3263
01:46:00,861 --> 01:46:02,900
them put them in tents.

3264
01:46:02,901 --> 01:46:04,720
So that's just one example of

3265
01:46:04,721 --> 01:46:05,580
moving forward.

3266
01:46:05,581 --> 01:46:08,400
The 2% increase is something as

3267
01:46:08,401 --> 01:46:10,680
far as an increase in tuition.

3268
01:46:10,681 --> 01:46:12,660
We have to consider the budgets.

3269
01:46:12,661 --> 01:46:14,280
We're looking at everything right

3270
01:46:14,281 --> 01:46:16,280
now that is nothing written in

3271
01:46:16,281 --> 01:46:17,370
stone.

3272
01:46:17,371 --> 01:46:19,130
This is just out there.

3273
01:46:19,131 --> 01:46:20,370
I don't know if it's going to

3274
01:46:20,371 --> 01:46:22,330
happen. We really have to kind of

3275
01:46:22,331 --> 01:46:23,930
drill down into what the campuses

3276
01:46:23,931 --> 01:46:26,230
need, talk to all the campuses,

3277
01:46:26,231 --> 01:46:28,000
and that's where we're at right now.

3278
01:46:28,001 --> 01:46:29,860
So potentially a

3279
01:46:29,861 --> 01:46:31,160
7% increase?

3280
01:46:31,161 --> 01:46:32,160
No, no, no.

3281
01:46:32,161 --> 01:46:33,480
Five after the budget.

3282
01:46:34,581 --> 01:46:35,581
That is,

3283
01:46:37,061 --> 01:46:39,780
in two years, right now, there's

3284
01:46:39,781 --> 01:46:41,680
no tuition increase right now.

3285
01:46:41,681 --> 01:46:43,580
We're looking at what the campuses

3286
01:46:43,581 --> 01:46:45,500
need and seeing if we can move

3287
01:46:45,501 --> 01:46:46,560
forward.

3288
01:46:46,561 --> 01:46:48,020
That's where it's at.

3289
01:46:48,021 --> 01:46:50,760
We've had discussions with

3290
01:46:50,761 --> 01:46:52,640
Mr. Rothman as well, bringing it

3291
01:46:52,641 --> 01:46:54,880
to us, trying to figure out

3292
01:46:54,881 --> 01:46:56,780
can we move forward without

3293
01:46:56,781 --> 01:46:58,400
it? What can we do here?

3294
01:46:58,401 --> 01:46:59,940
How can we kind of close the gap?

3295
01:46:59,941 --> 01:47:01,780
So there's current discussions, but

3296
01:47:01,781 --> 01:47:01,990
it has...

3297
01:47:01,991 --> 01:47:04,770
That's not been solidified, right.

3298
01:47:04,771 --> 01:47:06,050
Please keep that in mind though.

3299
01:47:06,051 --> 01:47:08,150
It does have 7% increase

3300
01:47:08,151 --> 01:47:09,531
within a very short period of time.

3301
01:47:09,532 --> 01:47:11,290
I'm checking that right now because

3302
01:47:11,291 --> 01:47:12,850
that was not my understanding, so

3303
01:47:12,851 --> 01:47:14,290
let me just turn this into a

3304
01:47:14,291 --> 01:47:15,170
clarification.

3305
01:47:15,171 --> 01:47:17,150
I'm going, yes, no.

3306
01:47:17,151 --> 01:47:19,190
I know you are, so am I.

3307
01:47:19,191 --> 01:47:20,191
There you go.

3308
01:47:25,011 --> 01:47:26,450
Board President, I've got a few

3309
01:47:26,451 --> 01:47:27,790
questions that I would just like to

3310
01:47:27,791 --> 01:47:29,790
follow up with you on if I may.

3311
01:47:29,791 --> 01:47:31,740
Questions that I...

3312
01:47:31,741 --> 01:47:32,960
Thought of that I thought were just

3313
01:47:32,961 --> 01:47:33,900
important as a part of our

3314
01:47:33,901 --> 01:47:36,300
discussion specific to the

3315
01:47:36,301 --> 01:47:38,500
hiring of Jay Rothman.

3316
01:47:38,501 --> 01:47:39,440
I'm just going to read them to you

3317
01:47:39,441 --> 01:47:40,720
since they're a little bit long and

3318
01:47:40,721 --> 01:47:42,180
if I need to read it to you I will.

3319
01:47:43,461 --> 01:47:44,680
I appreciate all the discussion

3320
01:47:44,681 --> 01:47:46,200
around what we should be doing for

3321
01:47:46,201 --> 01:47:48,000
universities and all the positive

3322
01:47:48,001 --> 01:47:49,020
things that we need to be moving

3323
01:47:49,021 --> 01:47:50,021
forward on.

3324
01:47:51,581 --> 01:47:53,460
Unfortunately, this hearing is

3325
01:47:53,461 --> 01:47:54,680
really specific to the understanding

3326
01:47:54,681 --> 01:47:56,540
of the process with Jay

3327
01:47:56,541 --> 01:47:58,420
Rothmen and our

3328
01:47:58,421 --> 01:48:00,020
understanding of it.

3329
01:48:00,021 --> 01:48:01,740
Just because I think we need to have

3330
01:48:01,741 --> 01:48:03,220
the awareness to be if we need to be

3331
01:48:03,221 --> 01:48:05,060
concerned about what precedent

3332
01:48:05,061 --> 01:48:06,880
looks like as well as best practices

3333
01:48:06,881 --> 01:48:08,700
relative to individuals

3334
01:48:08,701 --> 01:48:10,700
that are at will employees

3335
01:48:10,701 --> 01:48:12,180
in this case and are dismissed.

3336
01:48:13,541 --> 01:48:15,520
But you had indicated that

3337
01:48:15,521 --> 01:48:17,880
there was a clear evaluation with

3338
01:48:17,881 --> 01:48:19,460
President Roth and all to his

3339
01:48:19,461 --> 01:48:20,461
performance.

3340
01:48:23,561 --> 01:48:25,120
Suggestions made around improvements

3341
01:48:25,121 --> 01:48:26,980
that the board or you as

3342
01:48:26,981 --> 01:48:28,880
the board president were asking him

3343
01:48:28,881 --> 01:48:29,940
to take on

3344
01:48:31,041 --> 01:48:32,920
a little bit redundant again, but

3345
01:48:32,921 --> 01:48:34,740
can you clarify whether

3346
01:48:34,741 --> 01:48:36,680
that discussion

3347
01:48:36,681 --> 01:48:38,720
and that

3348
01:48:38,721 --> 01:48:40,460
That additional request for

3349
01:48:40,461 --> 01:48:42,300
improvements was

3350
01:48:42,301 --> 01:48:44,200
put in writing and

3351
01:48:44,201 --> 01:48:45,220
was documented.

3352
01:48:45,221 --> 01:48:47,140
It's a part of his employment

3353
01:48:47,141 --> 01:48:49,100
or employee file and

3354
01:48:49,101 --> 01:48:51,180
if if so, is that documents

3355
01:48:51,181 --> 01:48:53,100
available to us as a

3356
01:48:53,101 --> 01:48:54,941
committee to have access to.

3357
01:48:56,421 --> 01:48:58,760
I appreciate the question again.

3358
01:48:58,761 --> 01:49:00,600
The way that all of these are

3359
01:49:00,601 --> 01:49:02,780
conducted just as

3360
01:49:02,781 --> 01:49:04,180
Mr. Rothman has done with other

3361
01:49:04,181 --> 01:49:06,020
employees is that I

3362
01:49:06,021 --> 01:49:07,860
took copious notes that

3363
01:49:07,861 --> 01:49:09,100
I didn't share with anyone.

3364
01:49:09,101 --> 01:49:10,101
I mean,

3365
01:49:11,101 --> 01:49:12,700
I was trying to find my notes and

3366
01:49:12,701 --> 01:49:13,610
I'm at.

3367
01:49:13,611 --> 01:49:15,690
I never shared those with anyone

3368
01:49:15,691 --> 01:49:17,250
on purpose, because that's what I

3369
01:49:17,251 --> 01:49:18,450
was told, how to conduct the

3370
01:49:18,451 --> 01:49:19,450
evaluation.

3371
01:49:19,451 --> 01:49:21,030
It made it a lot more difficult for

3372
01:49:21,031 --> 01:49:22,990
me to conduct this evaluation,

3373
01:49:22,991 --> 01:49:24,830
because I would sit there and

3374
01:49:24,831 --> 01:49:26,451
talk to so many constituents,

3375
01:49:27,491 --> 01:49:28,970
chancellors, regents, other

3376
01:49:28,971 --> 01:49:30,830
stakeholders, and

3377
01:49:30,831 --> 01:49:32,710
ask them the same questions over and

3378
01:49:32,711 --> 01:49:34,690
over again, and it took

3379
01:49:34,691 --> 01:49:36,730
notes, and when

3380
01:49:36,731 --> 01:49:38,810
I gave Mr.

3381
01:49:38,811 --> 01:49:40,690
Rothman that evaluation, I was

3382
01:49:40,691 --> 01:49:41,691
reading from my notes.

3383
01:49:42,791 --> 01:49:44,630
I was told that I could

3384
01:49:44,631 --> 01:49:46,530
not make any record, that

3385
01:49:46,531 --> 01:49:47,910
that was not okay.

3386
01:49:47,911 --> 01:49:49,410
Personnel evaluations are always

3387
01:49:49,411 --> 01:49:50,950
conducted that way.

3388
01:49:50,951 --> 01:49:51,951
So unfortunately,

3389
01:49:53,231 --> 01:49:56,150
I am unable to share those.

3390
01:49:56,151 --> 01:49:57,710
Can I just interrupt really just

3391
01:49:57,711 --> 01:49:57,751
ask? Sure.

3392
01:49:57,752 --> 01:49:58,880
Can I just interrupt, really just ask
who

3393
01:49:58,881 --> 01:50:00,700
advised you of

3394
01:50:00,701 --> 01:50:02,780
your inability to

3395
01:50:02,781 --> 01:50:04,780
document or have anything written

3396
01:50:04,781 --> 01:50:05,930
in terms of protocol?

3397
01:50:05,931 --> 01:50:07,850
Right, well besides the

3398
01:50:07,851 --> 01:50:08,910
fact that I knew that was all the

3399
01:50:08,911 --> 01:50:10,670
way, that it had been done that way,

3400
01:50:10,671 --> 01:50:12,790
but also the general counsel and

3401
01:50:12,791 --> 01:50:14,510
Mr. Rothman.

3402
01:50:14,511 --> 01:50:16,530
So that's the way I conducted it.

3403
01:50:16,531 --> 01:50:17,690
And believe me, I would have loved

3404
01:50:17,691 --> 01:50:19,410
to have done it in a different way

3405
01:50:19,411 --> 01:50:20,530
because it would have been, it

3406
01:50:20,531 --> 01:50:22,280
would've saved me a lot of time.

3407
01:50:22,281 --> 01:50:24,100
So you took quite a few personal

3408
01:50:24,101 --> 01:50:26,130
notes as you heard.

3409
01:50:26,131 --> 01:50:27,690
Formulating your evaluation as you

3410
01:50:27,691 --> 01:50:29,970
were to talk to several people to

3411
01:50:29,971 --> 01:50:31,350
right gather their thoughts and

3412
01:50:31,351 --> 01:50:33,430
opinions right totally understood so

3413
01:50:33,431 --> 01:50:34,970
you have a lot of your own personal

3414
01:50:34,971 --> 01:50:36,890
copious notes on that but we

3415
01:50:36,891 --> 01:50:38,130
don't in terms of best practices

3416
01:50:38,131 --> 01:50:39,990
currently in the system have a means

3417
01:50:39,991 --> 01:50:42,130
for however that evaluation

3418
01:50:42,131 --> 01:50:44,090
is constructed for that to be

3419
01:50:44,091 --> 01:50:46,590
transferred into a formal document

3420
01:50:46,591 --> 01:50:48,990
that he then reviews

3421
01:50:48,991 --> 01:50:50,830
agrees to or disagrees to signs off

3422
01:50:50,831 --> 01:50:52,650
on and is in a permanent

3423
01:50:52,651 --> 01:50:54,790
place for that ongoing

3424
01:50:54,791 --> 01:50:56,630
litigation that doesn't exist

3425
01:50:56,631 --> 01:50:58,830
today? Is that what I understand

3426
01:50:58,831 --> 01:50:59,920
we're saying?

3427
01:50:59,921 --> 01:51:02,040
Yes, and I

3428
01:51:02,041 --> 01:51:03,480
probably don't remember this.

3429
01:51:03,481 --> 01:51:05,680
I don't know if General Consul

3430
01:51:05,681 --> 01:51:07,800
had him sign off.

3431
01:51:07,801 --> 01:51:08,780
I don't remember that.

3432
01:51:08,781 --> 01:51:09,640
I apologize.

3433
01:51:09,641 --> 01:51:11,200
Now that you're saying that, I don't

3434
01:51:11,201 --> 01:51:12,800
know if he signs off that we did an

3435
01:51:12,801 --> 01:51:13,860
evaluation or not.

3436
01:51:13,861 --> 01:51:15,740
I can find

3437
01:51:15,741 --> 01:51:17,980
out. I didn't think he did, but

3438
01:51:17,981 --> 01:51:20,860
I'm just not positive.

3439
01:51:20,861 --> 01:51:21,820
I don's know.

3440
01:51:21,821 --> 01:51:23,320
I mean, obviously, he acknowledged

3441
01:51:23,321 --> 01:51:25,660
it in their ongoing discussions.

3442
01:51:25,661 --> 01:51:27,620
But I don don't if

3443
01:51:27,621 --> 01:51:28,920
there's anything. Thank you very
much.

3444
01:51:28,921 --> 01:51:30,600
I mean, nothing written down of what

3445
01:51:30,601 --> 01:51:31,840
was in the evaluation.

3446
01:51:31,841 --> 01:51:33,420
But as far as I'm confirming that

3447
01:51:33,421 --> 01:51:34,421
one was done,

3448
01:51:35,681 --> 01:51:38,040
honestly, I don't remember that.

3449
01:51:38,041 --> 01:51:39,600
I apologize for that.

3450
01:51:39,601 --> 01:51:40,540
I can get back to you.

3451
01:51:40,541 --> 01:51:41,600
I will definitely get back.

3452
01:51:41,601 --> 01:51:42,500
We should appreciate that.

3453
01:51:42,501 --> 01:51:42,964
Yeah, I'm sorry. I appreciate that.

3454
01:51:42,965 --> 01:51:44,790
You mentioned you took several

3455
01:51:44,791 --> 01:51:46,770
of your own notes in preparation

3456
01:51:46,771 --> 01:51:48,330
for that evaluation.

3457
01:51:48,331 --> 01:51:50,150
Are those notes still accessible

3458
01:51:50,151 --> 01:51:51,750
and available to this committee if

3459
01:51:51,751 --> 01:51:52,980
so requested?

3460
01:51:52,981 --> 01:51:54,460
They're not available because

3461
01:51:54,461 --> 01:51:56,221
they're considered confidential, and

3462
01:51:56,222 --> 01:51:57,660
I never, I shared it with them

3463
01:51:57,661 --> 01:51:59,060
orally, but I never shared it with

3464
01:51:59,061 --> 01:52:00,300
anybody else.

3465
01:52:00,301 --> 01:52:01,401
I don't know if it would,

3466
01:52:02,461 --> 01:52:04,300
the way that I write,

3467
01:52:04,301 --> 01:52:05,460
I don't t know how helpful it would

3468
01:52:05,461 --> 01:52:07,920
be. I mean, again,

3469
01:52:07,921 --> 01:52:10,120
if Mr. Rothman waives

3470
01:52:10,121 --> 01:52:12,180
confidentiality, I'll try

3471
01:52:12,181 --> 01:52:14,960
to look at my notes and

3472
01:52:14,961 --> 01:52:16,280
go further with you.

3473
01:52:16,281 --> 01:52:17,860
Sure. And I'd be happy to do so.

3474
01:52:17,861 --> 01:52:19,400
Okay, thank you.

3475
01:52:19,401 --> 01:52:20,380
I've got just a couple of other

3476
01:52:20,381 --> 01:52:21,660
questions if I may.

3477
01:52:21,661 --> 01:52:23,680
I know you

3478
01:52:23,681 --> 01:52:25,340
referred to several good faith

3479
01:52:25,341 --> 01:52:27,780
discussions with Jay Rothman.

3480
01:52:28,981 --> 01:52:30,920
Set of what those may be or

3481
01:52:30,921 --> 01:52:31,960
not,

3482
01:52:33,761 --> 01:52:35,580
were you in a position where

3483
01:52:35,581 --> 01:52:37,860
based on those discussions you

3484
01:52:37,861 --> 01:52:41,140
were able to document the,

3485
01:52:41,141 --> 01:52:42,760
just to cover the basis for the

3486
01:52:42,761 --> 01:52:44,600
regents, cover the

3487
01:52:44,601 --> 01:52:46,240
dates and times of those discussions

3488
01:52:46,241 --> 01:52:48,520
and have anything formally

3489
01:52:48,521 --> 01:52:50,120
as follow-up and writing to those

3490
01:52:50,121 --> 01:52:51,940
discussions that we would have given

3491
01:52:51,941 --> 01:52:53,780
to Jay to say based on

3492
01:52:53,781 --> 01:52:55,240
the discussion we had yesterday at 2

3493
01:52:55,241 --> 01:52:56,080
p.m.

3494
01:52:56,081 --> 01:52:58,180
Here's a summary of what we

3495
01:52:58,181 --> 01:52:59,280
did discuss.

3496
01:52:59,281 --> 01:53:00,940
Please review it to make sure that

3497
01:53:00,941 --> 01:53:02,900
we're agreement to

3498
01:53:02,901 --> 01:53:04,600
what those discussions were in terms

3499
01:53:04,601 --> 01:53:06,560
of some formal

3500
01:53:06,561 --> 01:53:08,660
document there again that was signed

3501
01:53:08,661 --> 01:53:10,341
or at least provided to him.

3502
01:53:11,591 --> 01:53:14,230
He never received a document,

3503
01:53:14,231 --> 01:53:16,270
but he received the summary

3504
01:53:16,271 --> 01:53:18,650
of the evaluation,

3505
01:53:18,651 --> 01:53:20,890
I want to say numerous times.

3506
01:53:20,891 --> 01:53:22,650
I mean there were certain things

3507
01:53:22,651 --> 01:53:24,550
asked of him and

3508
01:53:24,551 --> 01:53:26,390
he was repeated to him

3509
01:53:26,391 --> 01:53:28,230
by me and by

3510
01:53:28,231 --> 01:53:30,150
the board in closed session and

3511
01:53:30,151 --> 01:53:32,110
then again by other members of

3512
01:53:32,111 --> 01:53:33,270
the board.

3513
01:53:33,271 --> 01:53:35,250
So we

3514
01:53:35,251 --> 01:53:36,970
don't have any documentation of

3515
01:53:36,971 --> 01:53:37,971
that.

3516
01:53:38,811 --> 01:53:40,650
I can try to figure out

3517
01:53:40,651 --> 01:53:42,270
the dates and I think we have

3518
01:53:42,271 --> 01:53:43,890
records of the closed session of

3519
01:53:43,891 --> 01:53:44,970
when the dates of the closed

3520
01:53:44,971 --> 01:53:46,971
sessions were and

3521
01:53:48,751 --> 01:53:50,190
there's Shortly after the

3522
01:53:50,191 --> 01:53:52,170
evaluation, I know we him and

3523
01:53:52,171 --> 01:53:53,171
I also met

3524
01:53:54,511 --> 01:53:56,290
With this chief of staff to go over

3525
01:53:56,291 --> 01:53:58,190
those it was I

3526
01:53:58,191 --> 01:54:00,610
want to say five days later

3527
01:54:00,611 --> 01:54:02,350
And I can turn over get my calendar

3528
01:54:02,351 --> 01:54:04,390
and see what those dates were But I

3529
01:54:04,391 --> 01:54:05,750
apologize that there were no written

3530
01:54:05,751 --> 01:54:06,751
notes

3531
01:54:07,771 --> 01:54:09,730
in not being critical to you

3532
01:54:09,731 --> 01:54:11,650
or anybody, but maybe

3533
01:54:11,651 --> 01:54:12,890
a little bit concerning regarding

3534
01:54:12,891 --> 01:54:13,891
the process.

3535
01:54:14,751 --> 01:54:16,630
Those are pretty high stakes when

3536
01:54:16,631 --> 01:54:18,810
we're talking about the UW system

3537
01:54:18,811 --> 01:54:20,731
and leadership across the board.

3538
01:54:22,331 --> 01:54:24,090
That's a lot of good memories, don't

3539
01:54:24,091 --> 01:54:26,050
necessarily make up for

3540
01:54:26,051 --> 01:54:27,650
things being documented.

3541
01:54:27,651 --> 01:54:29,270
In my case, I would concur with that

3542
01:54:29,271 --> 01:54:30,271
as well.

3543
01:54:30,891 --> 01:54:32,930
So in terms of

3544
01:54:32,931 --> 01:54:35,010
best practices, you folks are in

3545
01:54:35,011 --> 01:54:37,630
the legal business for

3546
01:54:37,631 --> 01:54:39,770
a lot good reasons that we

3547
01:54:39,771 --> 01:54:40,790
haven't applied some of those

3548
01:54:40,791 --> 01:54:42,150
disciplines within the UW systems

3549
01:54:42,151 --> 01:54:43,811
that relates to key employees.

3550
01:54:44,951 --> 01:54:47,090
Again, just is surprising

3551
01:54:47,091 --> 01:54:48,390
to me.

3552
01:54:48,391 --> 01:54:49,850
Disappointing to me, I think, that

3553
01:54:49,851 --> 01:54:51,050
that's kind of where we're at in

3554
01:54:51,051 --> 01:54:52,051
that regard.

3555
01:54:52,691 --> 01:54:54,830
That leads to a lot of

3556
01:54:54,831 --> 01:54:56,730
verbal hearsay and he said,

3557
01:54:56,731 --> 01:54:58,570
she said, I

3558
01:54:58,571 --> 01:54:59,571
believe.

3559
01:55:00,331 --> 01:55:02,190
And President Rothman

3560
01:55:02,191 --> 01:55:03,830
has been clear that in those

3561
01:55:03,831 --> 01:55:05,330
discussions that there was no

3562
01:55:05,331 --> 01:55:07,530
mention of potential termination

3563
01:55:07,531 --> 01:55:09,550
if So-and-so

3564
01:55:09,551 --> 01:55:11,450
didn't happen or wasn't

3565
01:55:11,451 --> 01:55:12,490
going to happen

3566
01:55:13,611 --> 01:55:15,430
Was that the case wasn't the case

3567
01:55:15,431 --> 01:55:18,170
we will know because That

3568
01:55:18,171 --> 01:55:19,490
may have just been verbal discussion

3569
01:55:19,491 --> 01:55:21,370
with you and he

3570
01:55:21,371 --> 01:55:23,570
Appropriately so without anything

3571
01:55:23,571 --> 01:55:25,610
documented that said here's

3572
01:55:25,611 --> 01:55:27,430
what actually took place just from

3573
01:55:27,431 --> 01:55:28,870
good governance, but also from a

3574
01:55:28,871 --> 01:55:30,060
legal perspective

3575
01:55:30,061 --> 01:55:32,060
And I agree with you, I mean the way

3576
01:55:32,061 --> 01:55:34,320
things are done is very difficult.

3577
01:55:34,321 --> 01:55:35,981
We are a very public facing board, I

3578
01:55:35,982 --> 01:55:37,820
think the most public facing

3579
01:55:37,821 --> 01:55:39,180
board in the state.

3580
01:55:39,181 --> 01:55:40,740
And I do agree with, it made it much

3581
01:55:40,741 --> 01:55:42,900
more difficult for me.

3582
01:55:42,901 --> 01:55:44,980
But I think things were said over

3583
01:55:44,981 --> 01:55:46,900
and over again and because of that

3584
01:55:46,901 --> 01:55:48,360
it's, you know, the fact that the

3585
01:55:48,361 --> 01:55:50,580
board lost confidence in

3586
01:55:50,581 --> 01:55:52,160
our leader and that's really truly

3587
01:55:52,161 --> 01:55:53,720
what was the outcome.

3588
01:55:53,721 --> 01:55:56,000
But no, it's absolutely something

3589
01:55:56,001 --> 01:55:57,880
that we need to re-evaluate

3590
01:55:57,881 --> 01:56:00,220
and see how we can proceed

3591
01:56:00,221 --> 01:56:01,320
further.

3592
01:56:01,321 --> 01:56:03,060
This is something that's been done

3593
01:56:03,061 --> 01:56:03,940
over and over again.

3594
01:56:03,941 --> 01:56:05,760
I know many areas of

3595
01:56:05,761 --> 01:56:07,700
employment, an

3596
01:56:07,701 --> 01:56:09,400
outlaw employee and personnel

3597
01:56:09,401 --> 01:56:11,840
evaluations are always confidential.

3598
01:56:11,841 --> 01:56:12,960
But because we are such a

3599
01:56:12,961 --> 01:56:14,540
public-facing board, maybe perhaps

3600
01:56:14,541 --> 01:56:16,080
there is a better way to do it.

3601
01:56:16,081 --> 01:56:18,050
So I appreciate that.

3602
01:56:18,051 --> 01:56:19,510
Well, thank you.

3603
01:56:19,511 --> 01:56:21,490
Appreciate you back on there.

3604
01:56:21,491 --> 01:56:22,930
Again, I know there continues to be,

3605
01:56:22,931 --> 01:56:24,570
unfortunately, it's reflecting fully

3606
01:56:24,571 --> 01:56:27,150
on the regents in this case,

3607
01:56:27,151 --> 01:56:29,210
in terms of comments made

3608
01:56:29,211 --> 01:56:31,590
publicly or privately regarding

3609
01:56:31,591 --> 01:56:33,510
what was clearly communicated

3610
01:56:33,511 --> 01:56:35,430
as relates to a

3611
01:56:35,431 --> 01:56:37,851
lead-up to the actual termination.

3612
01:56:38,871 --> 01:56:40,310
And again, I think it would be

3613
01:56:40,311 --> 01:56:42,270
helpful for folks

3614
01:56:42,271 --> 01:56:43,850
that are in our roles of fiduciary

3615
01:56:43,851 --> 01:56:45,050
responsibility on behalf of the

3616
01:56:45,051 --> 01:56:46,950
taxpayers, and I don't know

3617
01:56:46,951 --> 01:56:48,070
about my colleagues, but I've

3618
01:56:48,071 --> 01:56:49,790
certainly received enough

3619
01:56:49,791 --> 01:56:51,830
communication from residents

3620
01:56:51,831 --> 01:56:53,410
not even in my district around the

3621
01:56:53,411 --> 01:56:55,250
state that are huge,

3622
01:56:55,251 --> 01:56:57,150
huge advocates for

3623
01:56:57,151 --> 01:56:59,210
UW, but are concerned

3624
01:56:59,211 --> 01:57:01,010
about this process and how it played

3625
01:57:01,011 --> 01:57:02,870
out and why it played it out.

3626
01:57:02,871 --> 01:57:04,610
I think those taxpayers demand

3627
01:57:04,611 --> 01:57:07,270
transparency and answers to that.

3628
01:57:07,271 --> 01:57:09,090
Hopefully are available in

3629
01:57:09,091 --> 01:57:10,970
a form that can be public

3630
01:57:10,971 --> 01:57:12,090
because there's written

3631
01:57:12,091 --> 01:57:13,850
documentation for the facts.

3632
01:57:13,851 --> 01:57:15,690
Which is all I think we'd all want

3633
01:57:15,691 --> 01:57:17,670
to see, and

3634
01:57:17,671 --> 01:57:20,170
the access to those facts.

3635
01:57:20,171 --> 01:57:22,070
So I appreciate your thoughts and

3636
01:57:22,071 --> 01:57:23,310
comments on that in terms of how

3637
01:57:23,311 --> 01:57:24,870
that played out.

3638
01:57:24,871 --> 01:57:26,430
Hopefully we can figure out going

3639
01:57:26,431 --> 01:57:28,050
forward truly what best practices

3640
01:57:28,051 --> 01:57:29,890
should look like in that case

3641
01:57:29,891 --> 01:57:32,410
in that regard.

3642
01:57:32,411 --> 01:57:34,090
Is it a fair statement to say

3643
01:57:34,091 --> 01:57:35,110
that...

3644
01:57:35,111 --> 01:57:37,010
Without going back to specific dates

3645
01:57:37,011 --> 01:57:39,350
or years that there were evaluations

3646
01:57:39,351 --> 01:57:41,730
done with then President Rothman

3647
01:57:41,731 --> 01:57:44,110
that were very

3648
01:57:44,111 --> 01:57:46,390
affirming and very positive

3649
01:57:46,391 --> 01:57:48,530
based on the work that

3650
01:57:48,531 --> 01:57:50,390
he was doing and

3651
01:57:50,391 --> 01:57:51,710
had been doing.

3652
01:57:51,711 --> 01:57:53,030
Again, I don't know if those are in

3653
01:57:53,031 --> 01:57:54,310
writing or not. I think those would

3654
01:57:54,311 --> 01:57:56,270
be helpful to see as well.

3655
01:57:57,271 --> 01:57:59,450
Because I think my takeaway based

3656
01:57:59,451 --> 01:58:01,330
on all the good feedback and

3657
01:58:01,331 --> 01:58:03,570
that we've had is

3658
01:58:03,571 --> 01:58:05,570
you certainly give proper

3659
01:58:05,571 --> 01:58:07,490
recognition to President Rockin for

3660
01:58:07,491 --> 01:58:09,230
a lot of the great things he did do

3661
01:58:09,231 --> 01:58:10,850
and a lot of initiatives that he did

3662
01:58:10,851 --> 01:58:11,911
lead and push forward.

3663
01:58:14,491 --> 01:58:16,390
Were those evaluations clear in

3664
01:58:16,391 --> 01:58:18,690
his mind as to, job well done,

3665
01:58:20,071 --> 01:58:21,070
we really appreciate what you're

3666
01:58:21,071 --> 01:58:22,990
doing, we can do to support the

3667
01:58:22,991 --> 01:58:24,331
world that you're taking us down,

3668
01:58:25,791 --> 01:58:27,710
and can that be found somewhere in

3669
01:58:27,711 --> 01:58:29,250
terms of just the base relationship

3670
01:58:29,251 --> 01:58:31,010
between President Rockman and the

3671
01:58:31,011 --> 01:58:31,950
board?

3672
01:58:31,951 --> 01:58:33,550
Because at some point in time, it

3673
01:58:33,551 --> 01:58:35,050
appears that.

3674
01:58:35,051 --> 01:58:37,170
There was a quick veer

3675
01:58:37,171 --> 01:58:38,550
to the left or quick veers to the

3676
01:58:38,551 --> 01:58:40,370
right that what

3677
01:58:40,371 --> 01:58:42,271
he was and had been doing

3678
01:58:43,711 --> 01:58:46,010
changed and what he

3679
01:58:46,011 --> 01:58:47,510
was or wasn't doing going forward

3680
01:58:47,511 --> 01:58:49,310
became unacceptable to the board.

3681
01:58:50,551 --> 01:58:51,770
And again I'm phrasing that as I'm

3682
01:58:51,771 --> 01:58:53,330
phrasing it, it may not be as I

3683
01:58:53,331 --> 01:58:55,170
really said, but something

3684
01:58:55,171 --> 01:58:57,450
happened at some point that

3685
01:58:57,451 --> 01:58:59,950
he went from being a board president

3686
01:58:59,951 --> 01:59:01,290
that was, I'm sorry, an assistant

3687
01:59:01,291 --> 01:59:03,250
president that was highly supported

3688
01:59:03,251 --> 01:59:05,450
by the board to a

3689
01:59:05,451 --> 01:59:07,130
systems president that was

3690
01:59:09,021 --> 01:59:10,780
very unsupported by the board, for

3691
01:59:10,781 --> 01:59:12,520
lack of a better way of saying it,

3692
01:59:12,521 --> 01:59:14,960
that ultimately led to his

3693
01:59:14,961 --> 01:59:16,860
firing by the United

3694
01:59:16,861 --> 01:59:17,780
States Board.

3695
01:59:17,781 --> 01:59:19,480
And I'm just, again, I know some of

3696
01:59:19,481 --> 01:59:21,640
those things have been alluded to.

3697
01:59:21,641 --> 01:59:23,101
It would be, I think, really

3698
01:59:23,102 --> 01:59:25,700
beneficial for the systems to

3699
01:59:25,701 --> 01:59:27,280
have a track record of what that was

3700
01:59:27,281 --> 01:59:28,940
and why.

3701
01:59:28,941 --> 01:59:30,140
It could be for very legitimate

3702
01:59:30,141 --> 01:59:31,400
reasons, obviously.

3703
01:59:31,401 --> 01:59:33,240
Don't doubt that or question that.

3704
01:59:33,241 --> 01:59:34,680
But the process for which that was

3705
01:59:34,681 --> 01:59:36,880
done, again is somewhat concerning.

3706
01:59:36,881 --> 01:59:39,360
I'm just wondering if you can,

3707
01:59:39,361 --> 01:59:41,040
kind of on a thousand foot view,

3708
01:59:41,041 --> 01:59:42,860
quantify the fact that

3709
01:59:42,861 --> 01:59:44,860
what was very supportive

3710
01:59:44,861 --> 01:59:47,600
in terms of, was it Rothman's

3711
01:59:47,601 --> 01:59:49,640
accomplishments on the board at some

3712
01:59:49,641 --> 01:59:52,220
point became very unsupportive

3713
01:59:52,221 --> 01:59:54,280
and was that just

3714
01:59:54,281 --> 01:59:55,590
out of left field or was that

3715
01:59:55,591 --> 01:59:58,050
Growing sentiment over time because

3716
01:59:58,051 --> 02:00:00,510
there were hypothetically

3717
02:00:00,511 --> 02:00:02,690
20 initiatives that the board really

3718
02:00:02,691 --> 02:00:03,970
felt like needed to get done that

3719
02:00:03,971 --> 02:00:06,790
weren't or was this a slow,

3720
02:00:06,791 --> 02:00:08,750
we just don't see this moving in

3721
02:00:08,751 --> 02:00:11,290
the right direction type decision

3722
02:00:11,291 --> 02:00:12,750
by the board.

3723
02:00:12,751 --> 02:00:14,850
I just want to clarify something.

3724
02:00:14,851 --> 02:00:17,430
When I gave Mr.

3725
02:00:17,431 --> 02:00:18,851
Rothman his review,

3726
02:00:20,251 --> 02:00:22,790
I did, it was really difficult,

3727
02:00:22,791 --> 02:00:24,510
somewhat of a 360 review.

3728
02:00:25,891 --> 02:00:27,970
And as Mr. Rothman,

3729
02:00:27,971 --> 02:00:29,810
his own words, when he

3730
02:00:29,811 --> 02:00:31,990
has said publicly in media,

3731
02:00:31,991 --> 02:00:34,070
I've given hundreds and hundreds

3732
02:00:34,071 --> 02:00:35,850
and hundreds of evaluations he would

3733
02:00:35,851 --> 02:00:37,000
tell us all the time.

3734
02:00:37,001 --> 02:00:38,500
You've got to give at least four

3735
02:00:38,501 --> 02:00:40,920
positives to every negative, okay?

3736
02:00:40,921 --> 02:00:42,800
And I was very certain of

3737
02:00:42,801 --> 02:00:44,920
myself that I did that.

3738
02:00:44,921 --> 02:00:47,480
I gave him many positives to,

3739
02:00:47,481 --> 02:00:49,300
you know, at least 4

3740
02:00:49,301 --> 02:00:50,200
or 5.

3741
02:00:50,201 --> 02:00:52,040
And my Vice President and I, you

3742
02:00:52,041 --> 02:00:53,960
now, thought we had that covered,

3743
02:00:55,481 --> 02:00:57,540
that we pointed out

3744
02:00:57,541 --> 02:00:59,320
the positives and we were happy

3745
02:00:59,321 --> 02:01:01,720
with, but then the negatives came.

3746
02:01:01,721 --> 02:01:03,300
And he was very disheartened by

3747
02:01:03,301 --> 02:01:05,240
those And I'm

3748
02:01:05,241 --> 02:01:07,150
very upset by that.

3749
02:01:07,151 --> 02:01:09,150
And I was surprised

3750
02:01:09,151 --> 02:01:11,090
how upset he was by

3751
02:01:11,091 --> 02:01:12,410
that.

3752
02:01:12,411 --> 02:01:14,650
These are things that we

3753
02:01:14,651 --> 02:01:15,610
tried to work on.

3754
02:01:15,611 --> 02:01:17,190
It was not sudden.

3755
02:01:17,191 --> 02:01:19,510
It was no sudden.

3756
02:01:19,511 --> 02:01:21,870
And Mr. Rothman knows that.

3757
02:01:21,871 --> 02:01:24,350
It was ongoing situations that

3758
02:01:24,351 --> 02:01:26,150
we had many discussions with him

3759
02:01:26,151 --> 02:01:27,151
about.

3760
02:01:28,081 --> 02:01:29,900
I didn't want to pile on, so

3761
02:01:29,901 --> 02:01:31,120
of course there are many positive

3762
02:01:31,121 --> 02:01:33,080
things that are happening.

3763
02:01:33,081 --> 02:01:34,940
So it's, you know, in any good

3764
02:01:34,941 --> 02:01:36,760
review, you do want to say

3765
02:01:36,761 --> 02:01:38,280
the positives, and we all felt

3766
02:01:38,281 --> 02:01:39,680
confident that there are positive

3767
02:01:39,681 --> 02:01:40,660
things.

3768
02:01:40,661 --> 02:01:42,600
But there are things as we

3769
02:01:42,601 --> 02:01:44,560
move forward together that

3770
02:01:44,561 --> 02:01:46,060
we needed him to work on.

3771
02:01:46,061 --> 02:01:47,460
And that's where we got stuck.

3772
02:01:47,461 --> 02:01:50,260
And again, this was not overnight.

3773
02:01:50,261 --> 02:01:52,220
It was a process that was going on

3774
02:01:52,221 --> 02:01:53,321
and on and one.

3775
02:01:54,411 --> 02:01:57,370
Until the board completely,

3776
02:01:57,371 --> 02:01:59,550
every one of us, lost confidence in

3777
02:01:59,551 --> 02:02:00,551
his ability to move forward.

3778
02:02:01,571 --> 02:02:03,530
Let me suggest that

3779
02:02:03,531 --> 02:02:05,691
we were caught by circumstances,

3780
02:02:08,271 --> 02:02:10,450
both Mr. Rothman and the board.

3781
02:02:10,451 --> 02:02:12,350
I first got on the board in May

3782
02:02:12,351 --> 02:02:15,650
of two years ago, 2024.

3783
02:02:15,651 --> 02:02:18,030
The word was, for God's sake Nixon,

3784
02:02:18,031 --> 02:02:19,130
keep your mouth shut because we're

3785
02:02:19,131 --> 02:02:21,190
in a budget negotiation.

3786
02:02:21,191 --> 02:02:23,290
Don't raise any of this stuff, don't

3787
02:02:23,291 --> 02:02:25,210
talk about it, we're negotiating a

3788
02:02:25,211 --> 02:02:27,030
budget, so don't raise

3789
02:02:27,031 --> 02:02:28,310
this stuff.

3790
02:02:28,311 --> 02:02:29,990
Okay, fine, we are in a budget

3791
02:02:29,991 --> 02:02:31,650
negotiation, I'm not going to raise

3792
02:02:31,651 --> 02:02:33,410
this, I'll be good, but that's

3793
02:02:33,411 --> 02:02:34,830
really hard for me.

3794
02:02:34,831 --> 02:02:36,890
Then, when you passed Act

3795
02:02:36,891 --> 02:02:39,070
15 and we went to enforce

3796
02:02:39,071 --> 02:02:41,300
it, and I am...

3797
02:02:41,301 --> 02:02:43,300
I liked some things in Act 15,

3798
02:02:43,301 --> 02:02:44,760
this would get me in trouble, but I

3799
02:02:44,761 --> 02:02:47,220
did like some things in Act15

3800
02:02:47,221 --> 02:02:49,360
that took an inordinate

3801
02:02:49,361 --> 02:02:50,480
amount of time.

3802
02:02:50,481 --> 02:02:52,340
So for the period that the budget

3803
02:02:52,341 --> 02:02:55,180
was in process in Act-15,

3804
02:02:55,181 --> 02:02:57,000
anything that was sort of

3805
02:02:57,001 --> 02:02:58,980
boat rocking was pushed

3806
02:02:58,981 --> 02:03:00,240
aside.

3807
02:03:00,241 --> 02:03:01,240
Okay?

3808
02:03:01,241 --> 02:03:02,370
So.

3809
02:03:02,371 --> 02:03:03,790
I'm thinking about what you're

3810
02:03:03,791 --> 02:03:04,870
saying, Senator.

3811
02:03:04,871 --> 02:03:06,410
It's kind of like that's sort of

3812
02:03:06,411 --> 02:03:08,110
what happened. We were not publicly

3813
02:03:08,111 --> 02:03:09,630
talking about a lot of things

3814
02:03:09,631 --> 02:03:11,630
because we were trying not to

3815
02:03:11,631 --> 02:03:12,570
rock the boat.

3816
02:03:12,571 --> 02:03:14,550
And then we were to implement Act

3817
02:03:14,551 --> 02:03:16,410
15 without

3818
02:03:16,411 --> 02:03:17,411
a full revolt.

3819
02:03:18,351 --> 02:03:20,550
But both those things are done now.

3820
02:03:20,551 --> 02:03:22,490
And so now these things have, you're

3821
02:03:22,491 --> 02:03:24,450
right, they have sort of stacked up

3822
02:03:24,451 --> 02:03:25,630
over time.

3823
02:03:25,631 --> 02:03:27,050
And now they're there.

3824
02:03:27,051 --> 02:03:28,051
And in

3825
02:03:29,181 --> 02:03:31,080
Fairness President Rothman and us.

3826
02:03:31,081 --> 02:03:32,880
I kind of think that's a bit of what

3827
02:03:32,881 --> 02:03:35,320
happened here was

3828
02:03:35,321 --> 02:03:37,020
You know at least for me.

3829
02:03:37,021 --> 02:03:38,520
I know they asked me not to say

3830
02:03:38,521 --> 02:03:39,801
things out loud, and I didn't

3831
02:03:40,981 --> 02:03:42,700
Well by the way may I address the

3832
02:03:42,701 --> 02:03:44,220
vice chair quickly?

3833
02:03:45,541 --> 02:03:47,600
Two percent is up is

3834
02:03:47,601 --> 02:03:49,580
being proposed and talked about

3835
02:03:49,581 --> 02:03:52,080
it's not locked in it is not

3836
02:03:52,081 --> 02:03:54,080
Seven percent it was five

3837
02:03:54,081 --> 02:03:55,740
percent not if you want to get

3838
02:03:55,741 --> 02:03:56,310
that's right

3839
02:03:56,311 --> 02:03:57,140
Say it.

3840
02:03:57,141 --> 02:03:59,200
If you're handing back,

3841
02:03:59,201 --> 02:04:01,820
yeah, we're doing, we're proposing,

3842
02:04:01,821 --> 02:04:02,920
or they are proposing.

3843
02:04:02,921 --> 02:04:04,420
It hasn't been presented to us, it's

3844
02:04:04,421 --> 02:04:05,260
just another one of those things

3845
02:04:05,261 --> 02:04:06,620
where we have these little

3846
02:04:06,621 --> 02:04:08,620
round-robin discussions where

3847
02:04:08,621 --> 02:04:10,520
you bring in two regions at a time

3848
02:04:10,521 --> 02:04:12,000
and then you brief them so you don't

3849
02:04:12,001 --> 02:04:13,860
have to, you know, come through

3850
02:04:13,861 --> 02:04:15,130
the thing with everybody.

3851
02:04:15,131 --> 02:04:16,430
There are other things that we're

3852
02:04:16,431 --> 02:04:18,250
throwing out as well, though,

3853
02:04:18,251 --> 02:04:20,530
and whether we do it or not.

3854
02:04:20,531 --> 02:04:22,630
It's in the discovery of

3855
02:04:22,631 --> 02:04:24,990
what we're looking at.

3856
02:04:24,991 --> 02:04:27,010
It's under discussion,

3857
02:04:27,011 --> 02:04:28,090
not been brought to us yet.

3858
02:04:32,151 --> 02:04:33,990
I just, you know,

3859
02:04:33,991 --> 02:04:35,990
as somebody that used to teach at UW

3860
02:04:35,991 --> 02:04:37,890
Oshkosh, as a student of UW

3861
02:04:37,891 --> 02:04:39,830
Oashkosh UW Milwaukee, I

3862
02:04:39,831 --> 02:04:41,670
mean, it's a big deal, affordability

3863
02:04:41,671 --> 02:04:43,350
is a big deals. So, we talk about a

3864
02:04:43,351 --> 02:04:44,670
transformative leader and we talk

3865
02:04:44,671 --> 02:04:46,170
about keeping those tuition costs

3866
02:04:46,171 --> 02:04:47,230
down.

3867
02:04:47,231 --> 02:04:48,670
Hey, there was a lot of money in the

3868
02:04:48,671 --> 02:04:51,030
last budget, current budget,

3869
02:04:51,031 --> 02:04:52,910
5% shortly after and another

3870
02:04:52,911 --> 02:04:54,750
2% and I've had people reach out

3871
02:04:54,751 --> 02:04:54,871
to me.

3872
02:04:54,872 --> 02:04:55,941
We can talk about that.

3873
02:04:55,942 --> 02:04:58,380
We can talk about that 579

3874
02:04:58,381 --> 02:05:00,060
employees that you talked about

3875
02:05:00,061 --> 02:05:02,040
there. We can cut that and

3876
02:05:02,041 --> 02:05:04,040
save that 2%.

3877
02:05:04,041 --> 02:05:06,500
I bet you we could cut 4%.

3878
02:05:06,501 --> 02:05:08,480
But 579 people are a lot of

3879
02:05:08,481 --> 02:05:09,920
people that if we don't need them,

3880
02:05:09,921 --> 02:05:10,760
we only need 50.

3881
02:05:10,761 --> 02:05:12,920
That's a good spot to start.

3882
02:05:12,921 --> 02:05:14,720
Just throw that out there.

3883
02:05:14,721 --> 02:05:16,230
I'm not going to count those.

3884
02:05:16,231 --> 02:05:18,070
I was one of the lowest tuitions

3885
02:05:18,071 --> 02:05:20,170
in the Big Ten and...

3886
02:05:20,171 --> 02:05:22,130
Still, 7% is a lot in two

3887
02:05:22,131 --> 02:05:24,370
years. Higher education,

3888
02:05:24,371 --> 02:05:26,370
this entire country would all look

3889
02:05:26,371 --> 02:05:28,190
to this and say, you know,

3890
02:05:28,191 --> 02:05:30,230
when I was in school,

3891
02:05:30,231 --> 02:05:31,830
it was a much higher percentage from

3892
02:05:31,831 --> 02:05:32,690
the state.

3893
02:05:32,691 --> 02:05:34,530
I was very, very happy

3894
02:05:34,531 --> 02:05:35,730
because I couldn't afford it.

3895
02:05:35,731 --> 02:05:37,630
I still had to take loans out,

3896
02:05:37,631 --> 02:05:39,670
but I look at what I paid

3897
02:05:39,671 --> 02:05:41,110
and what's being paid by the

3898
02:05:41,111 --> 02:05:43,150
students now is a tremendous

3899
02:05:43,151 --> 02:05:45,070
difference. So I

3900
02:05:45,071 --> 02:05:47,010
would love to work together to

3901
02:05:47,011 --> 02:05:48,350
figure out ways to make it more

3902
02:05:48,351 --> 02:05:50,650
affordable where we keep quality

3903
02:05:50,651 --> 02:05:51,690
education.

3904
02:05:51,691 --> 02:05:53,950
You just can't keep cutting where

3905
02:05:53,951 --> 02:05:54,971
students lose out.

3906
02:05:56,971 --> 02:05:58,640
Just an observation.

3907
02:05:58,641 --> 02:06:00,641
Worthy one for sure

3908
02:06:02,101 --> 02:06:04,140
Poor president can

3909
02:06:04,141 --> 02:06:06,540
can you speak to and certainly

3910
02:06:06,541 --> 02:06:08,121
region picks as well the

3911
02:06:09,301 --> 02:06:11,360
strategic vision

3912
02:06:11,361 --> 02:06:13,340
That the board I'm presuming

3913
02:06:13,341 --> 02:06:15,400
put together in 2022

3914
02:06:16,621 --> 02:06:19,320
That again, I'm assuming is

3915
02:06:19,321 --> 02:06:20,780
all encompassing in terms of the

3916
02:06:20,781 --> 02:06:21,980
system in general

3917
02:06:24,291 --> 02:06:26,910
Is that strategic vision,

3918
02:06:26,911 --> 02:06:30,050
if you will, still in place?

3919
02:06:30,051 --> 02:06:32,130
And did it

3920
02:06:32,131 --> 02:06:33,970
come out of a

3921
02:06:33,971 --> 02:06:36,430
broader discussion with the

3922
02:06:36,431 --> 02:06:38,270
board of regents in terms

3923
02:06:38,271 --> 02:06:40,210
of who is driving

3924
02:06:40,211 --> 02:06:42,010
that strategic division?

3925
02:06:42,011 --> 02:06:44,150
Can you speak to President Brotman's

3926
02:06:44,151 --> 02:06:46,490
involvement with or lack thereof?

3927
02:06:46,491 --> 02:06:49,050
How that vision

3928
02:06:49,051 --> 02:06:51,870
garnered, hopefully,

3929
02:06:51,871 --> 02:06:54,290
bipartisan agreement in that regard?

3930
02:06:54,291 --> 02:06:55,770
And are we still kind of running on

3931
02:06:55,771 --> 02:06:57,250
that same strategic vision?

3932
02:06:58,631 --> 02:07:00,370
And is there copies of that

3933
02:07:00,371 --> 02:07:02,210
somewhere that the board reviews

3934
02:07:02,211 --> 02:07:03,610
consistently?

3935
02:07:03,611 --> 02:07:04,550
And is that something that's
available

3936
02:07:04,551 --> 02:07:06,250
to us as a committee also?

3937
02:07:10,051 --> 02:07:11,490
I'm sure it is.

3938
02:07:11,491 --> 02:07:12,730
I mean, I will definitely check and

3939
02:07:12,731 --> 02:07:14,390
get back and get it to you as soon

3940
02:07:14,391 --> 02:07:17,330
as I can. I mean, that was in 2022.

3941
02:07:17,331 --> 02:07:19,370
I think one of President

3942
02:07:19,371 --> 02:07:21,430
or Mr. Rothman's first

3943
02:07:21,431 --> 02:07:23,270
jobs and duties was to do that

3944
02:07:23,271 --> 02:07:24,510
strategic plan.

3945
02:07:24,511 --> 02:07:25,990
And I think he went to work right

3946
02:07:25,991 --> 02:07:27,030
away.

3947
02:07:27,031 --> 02:07:29,090
I take you brought in constituencies

3948
02:07:29,091 --> 02:07:30,710
for that 2022 plan.

3949
02:07:31,751 --> 02:07:33,850
I thing one of the

3950
02:07:33,851 --> 02:07:36,050
issues was the

3951
02:07:36,051 --> 02:07:37,470
board has brought in on the later

3952
02:07:37,471 --> 02:07:39,570
side We all

3953
02:07:39,571 --> 02:07:41,010
talked about it,

3954
02:07:42,111 --> 02:07:43,630
and I think that we all went pro

3955
02:07:43,631 --> 02:07:46,620
with it, but now, of course, as...

3956
02:07:46,621 --> 02:07:48,500
As you know, things move so

3957
02:07:48,501 --> 02:07:50,800
fast and change so fast.

3958
02:07:50,801 --> 02:07:52,420
Some of that strategic vision was

3959
02:07:52,421 --> 02:07:53,520
carried out.

3960
02:07:53,521 --> 02:07:55,620
Some of it really didn't

3961
02:07:55,621 --> 02:07:57,020
make sense because things were

3962
02:07:57,021 --> 02:07:58,740
changing so quickly.

3963
02:07:58,741 --> 02:08:00,580
I don't have it, I apologize, I

3964
02:08:00,581 --> 02:08:02,060
can't answer it.

3965
02:08:02,061 --> 02:08:03,680
Because I don't have it in front of

3966
02:08:03,681 --> 02:08:06,460
me to tell you what we

3967
02:08:06,461 --> 02:08:07,820
carried out, what we didn't carry

3968
02:08:07,821 --> 02:08:08,900
out.

3969
02:08:08,901 --> 02:08:10,400
But part of it going forward is that

3970
02:08:10,401 --> 02:08:12,320
we're trying to come up with what is

3971
02:08:12,321 --> 02:08:14,300
needed at this moment in time,

3972
02:08:14,301 --> 02:08:15,220
which is different from what

3973
02:08:15,221 --> 02:08:16,221
happened in 2022.

3974
02:08:17,701 --> 02:08:19,560
But I will get you, I know we have

3975
02:08:19,561 --> 02:08:20,561
it.

3976
02:08:21,141 --> 02:08:23,380
I appreciate that, as we

3977
02:08:23,381 --> 02:08:25,220
know, all vision documents

3978
02:08:25,221 --> 02:08:27,100
are fluid and forever changing

3979
02:08:27,101 --> 02:08:29,081
because times change around us,

3980
02:08:30,121 --> 02:08:31,660
so keeping those up to date and

3981
02:08:31,661 --> 02:08:34,020
current are always a challenge,

3982
02:08:34,021 --> 02:08:34,900
but we're glad to see good

3983
02:08:34,901 --> 02:08:36,800
guideposts for where we're

3984
02:08:36,801 --> 02:08:38,020
going in a whole variety of things

3985
02:08:38,021 --> 02:08:39,021
in our communities.

3986
02:08:40,121 --> 02:08:41,220
Great, thank you.

3987
02:08:44,001 --> 02:08:46,140
I would just say

3988
02:08:46,141 --> 02:08:48,080
that part of the

3989
02:08:48,081 --> 02:08:49,081
formula.

3990
02:08:49,681 --> 02:08:51,540
Tell me this is not true,

3991
02:08:51,541 --> 02:08:53,200
but my understanding is part of the

3992
02:08:53,201 --> 02:08:55,220
formula of how much is charged

3993
02:08:55,221 --> 02:08:57,320
for tuition is dictated

3994
02:08:57,321 --> 02:08:59,760
by how much aid you get from

3995
02:08:59,761 --> 02:09:02,040
the state and how much we

3996
02:09:02,041 --> 02:09:03,560
support our institutions, and I

3997
02:09:03,561 --> 02:09:05,400
believe that percentage has been

3998
02:09:05,401 --> 02:09:07,340
in a steady decline.

3999
02:09:08,541 --> 02:09:10,560
I know that having

4000
02:09:10,561 --> 02:09:12,560
conversations across generations,

4001
02:09:12,561 --> 02:09:14,480
there was folks who were

4002
02:09:14,481 --> 02:09:16,740
paying nothing

4003
02:09:16,741 --> 02:09:18,700
to go to school or could

4004
02:09:18,701 --> 02:09:21,980
afford to cover tuition by

4005
02:09:21,981 --> 02:09:23,260
working a couple of weeks.

4006
02:09:24,721 --> 02:09:26,760
I just did the math.

4007
02:09:26,761 --> 02:09:28,640
It would require I believe

4008
02:09:28,641 --> 02:09:31,180
38 weeks working

4009
02:09:31,181 --> 02:09:33,080
a 40-hour week at minimum

4010
02:09:33,081 --> 02:09:35,540
wage to cover

4011
02:09:35,541 --> 02:09:36,960
a year's tuition.

4012
02:09:36,961 --> 02:09:38,820
So the idea of

4013
02:09:38,821 --> 02:09:40,760
working to cover

4014
02:09:40,761 --> 02:09:43,240
tuition has

4015
02:09:43,241 --> 02:09:45,100
grown on the breach and I believe a

4016
02:09:45,101 --> 02:09:46,860
lot of that is because the state's

4017
02:09:46,861 --> 02:09:49,400
dedication to the universities

4018
02:09:49,401 --> 02:09:51,060
as a percentage of where they're

4019
02:09:51,061 --> 02:09:52,880
getting the revenue from has been a

4020
02:09:52,881 --> 02:09:54,810
steady decline. Is that correct?

4021
02:09:54,811 --> 02:09:56,190
That is correct.

4022
02:09:56,191 --> 02:09:58,110
I mean, I think that it's

4023
02:09:58,111 --> 02:09:59,470
very fair to say that all our

4024
02:09:59,471 --> 02:10:01,990
campuses have food pantries.

4025
02:10:01,991 --> 02:10:03,310
There's a lot of food insecurity

4026
02:10:03,311 --> 02:10:05,090
because they want to go to school

4027
02:10:05,091 --> 02:10:07,030
and they don't have enough.

4028
02:10:07,031 --> 02:10:08,770
They don't make enough at their jobs

4029
02:10:08,771 --> 02:10:10,210
and many of them work.

4030
02:10:11,251 --> 02:10:13,290
And also, you know, I

4031
02:10:13,291 --> 02:10:14,850
know a couple students, friends of

4032
02:10:14,851 --> 02:10:16,890
my daughter, that lived in their car

4033
02:10:16,891 --> 02:10:18,490
the first year.

4034
02:10:18,491 --> 02:10:20,590
I mean housing is enormously

4035
02:10:20,591 --> 02:10:22,230
expensive. I don't care what campus

4036
02:10:22,231 --> 02:10:24,050
you're talking about.

4037
02:10:24,051 --> 02:10:25,990
It's very, very expensive.

4038
02:10:25,991 --> 02:10:27,790
I mean, it's not just here in our

4039
02:10:27,791 --> 02:10:29,590
state, as all of you are very well

4040
02:10:29,591 --> 02:10:30,390
aware.

4041
02:10:30,391 --> 02:10:32,390
I mean housing is extremely

4042
02:10:32,391 --> 02:10:34,010
expensive, food has gone up

4043
02:10:34,011 --> 02:10:35,011
enormously.

4044
02:10:36,011 --> 02:10:37,370
I mean I go to the grocery store and

4045
02:10:37,371 --> 02:10:38,310
I'm in shop.

4046
02:10:38,311 --> 02:10:40,250
So for students to be able to

4047
02:10:40,251 --> 02:10:42,151
eat themselves, buy books.

4048
02:10:44,201 --> 02:10:45,360
It's enormous.

4049
02:10:45,361 --> 02:10:47,200
So when we talk about Pell Grants

4050
02:10:47,201 --> 02:10:49,200
or tuition remission,

4051
02:10:49,201 --> 02:10:50,580
we're not talking about housing.

4052
02:10:50,581 --> 02:10:52,140
We're not taking about food.

4053
02:10:52,141 --> 02:10:53,600
We're just not talking of just

4054
02:10:53,601 --> 02:10:55,120
existing, right?

4055
02:10:56,561 --> 02:10:58,500
I mean, families can't

4056
02:10:58,501 --> 02:10:59,501
afford this.

4057
02:11:01,561 --> 02:11:03,380
They have both parents,

4058
02:11:03,381 --> 02:11:05,660
one parent, one guardian, making a

4059
02:11:05,661 --> 02:11:07,220
minimum wage, working two jobs.

4060
02:11:08,481 --> 02:11:09,560
That's the state of our country

4061
02:11:09,561 --> 02:11:10,561
right now.

4062
02:11:11,251 --> 02:11:13,010
We're committed to trying to help

4063
02:11:13,011 --> 02:11:14,550
address that to make sure it's

4064
02:11:14,551 --> 02:11:16,310
accessible to more folks to make

4065
02:11:16,311 --> 02:11:20,070
sure that we're not

4066
02:11:20,071 --> 02:11:22,190
gatekeeping knowledge, gatekeeping

4067
02:11:22,191 --> 02:11:23,930
education, right?

4068
02:11:23,931 --> 02:11:25,490
Which is to make sure that you have

4069
02:11:25,491 --> 02:11:27,390
a smart population, which is

4070
02:11:27,391 --> 02:11:29,210
the Wisconsin idea, and the reason

4071
02:11:29,211 --> 02:11:30,850
we have public education is because

4072
02:11:30,851 --> 02:11:31,851
we have smart neighbors.

4073
02:11:32,781 --> 02:11:35,800
And I just want to add that one

4074
02:11:35,801 --> 02:11:37,280
of the biggest populations who are

4075
02:11:37,281 --> 02:11:38,800
losing are young men, right?

4076
02:11:39,801 --> 02:11:41,960
And to me, that's very, very sad,

4077
02:11:41,961 --> 02:11:44,000
because when you're offered a

4078
02:11:44,001 --> 02:11:46,420
job at Jiffy Lube with a $1,000

4079
02:11:46,421 --> 02:11:48,580
sign-on bonus, that

4080
02:11:48,581 --> 02:11:50,440
looks pretty good to you, right,

4081
02:11:50,441 --> 02:11:52,760
and to not have the support of

4082
02:11:52,761 --> 02:11:54,840
our state to help those

4083
02:11:54,841 --> 02:11:56,740
people makes me

4084
02:11:56,741 --> 02:11:58,900
sad. And I know that many

4085
02:11:58,901 --> 02:12:01,120
of them would rather go, and

4086
02:12:01,121 --> 02:12:03,180
even I know friends of

4087
02:12:03,181 --> 02:12:05,120
friends that are having a tough time

4088
02:12:05,121 --> 02:12:07,300
trying to make a go of it and

4089
02:12:07,301 --> 02:12:09,160
it would be great to have

4090
02:12:09,161 --> 02:12:10,420
that support, so thank you.

4091
02:12:12,451 --> 02:12:13,711
Sir, I received you.

4092
02:12:18,411 --> 02:12:19,544
I know, I see the tan.

4093
02:12:30,191 --> 02:12:32,230
I think that we

4094
02:12:32,231 --> 02:12:33,830
worked very hard on the last budget.

4095
02:12:33,831 --> 02:12:34,690
We're not going to sit here and

4096
02:12:34,691 --> 02:12:36,510
debate that. We are not going

4097
02:12:36,511 --> 02:12:38,370
too. But I fought very hard for

4098
02:12:38,371 --> 02:12:39,810
hundreds of millions of dollars for

4099
02:12:39,811 --> 02:12:40,830
health care buildings. And what

4100
02:12:40,831 --> 02:12:42,210
you're telling me right now is that

4101
02:12:42,211 --> 02:12:43,490
maybe shouldn't have been our focus.

4102
02:12:43,491 --> 02:12:44,810
It should have been more focused in

4103
02:12:44,811 --> 02:12:45,811
other areas. Thank you very much.

4104
02:12:47,251 --> 02:12:49,130
I don't know where the solutions

4105
02:12:49,131 --> 02:12:50,850
are, but I do know nothing is for

4106
02:12:50,851 --> 02:12:51,790
free.

4107
02:12:51,791 --> 02:12:53,650
And as we talk about increasing of

4108
02:12:53,651 --> 02:12:55,550
tuition, possibly again,

4109
02:12:55,551 --> 02:12:57,050
as we talked about compensating that

4110
02:12:57,051 --> 02:12:59,150
through tax dollars, nothing is

4111
02:12:59,151 --> 02:13:00,990
free. I hope that all of you guys

4112
02:13:00,991 --> 02:13:02,450
can work together as well as the

4113
02:13:02,451 --> 02:13:03,930
individuals in this building to find

4114
02:13:03,931 --> 02:13:05,430
the right number.

4115
02:13:05,431 --> 02:13:07,410
But again, you know, you brought up

4116
02:13:07,411 --> 02:13:09,450
579 employees.

4117
02:13:09,451 --> 02:13:11,300
I mean, that's a lot of bucks.

4118
02:13:11,301 --> 02:13:12,300
A lot of bucks.

4119
02:13:12,301 --> 02:13:14,220
So as we talk about it in a

4120
02:13:14,221 --> 02:13:15,520
responsible fashion, I just hope

4121
02:13:15,521 --> 02:13:17,120
that for the people of Wisconsin

4122
02:13:17,121 --> 02:13:18,940
that utilize our programs,

4123
02:13:18,941 --> 02:13:21,560
that we can find a great solution.

4124
02:13:21,561 --> 02:13:24,310
And I don't

4125
02:13:24,311 --> 02:13:25,710
I mean, that's part of the

4126
02:13:25,711 --> 02:13:27,030
discussion. Is it the 2%?

4127
02:13:27,031 --> 02:13:28,950
Is it increase in

4128
02:13:28,951 --> 02:13:30,810
funds from the taxpayer pots

4129
02:13:30,811 --> 02:13:31,810
that we have here?

4130
02:13:31,811 --> 02:13:32,790
I don't know what that is.

4131
02:13:32,791 --> 02:13:34,810
All I know is that costs continue to

4132
02:13:34,811 --> 02:13:36,130
increase and increase, which is

4133
02:13:36,131 --> 02:13:37,850
concerning on many levels.

4134
02:13:37,851 --> 02:13:39,450
I mean I can tell you my sad story

4135
02:13:39,451 --> 02:13:41,530
about my time attending at UW

4136
02:13:41,531 --> 02:13:43,070
schools and the other schools that

4137
02:13:43,071 --> 02:13:44,730
I've attended also.

4138
02:13:44,731 --> 02:13:46,570
Makes us stronger in the end when we

4139
02:13:46,571 --> 02:13:47,830
make it through and then we are

4140
02:13:47,831 --> 02:13:49,720
successful. I'm back.

4141
02:13:49,721 --> 02:13:51,840
I would just say as a whole I

4142
02:13:51,841 --> 02:13:53,620
hope that there will be continued

4143
02:13:53,621 --> 02:13:55,580
productive discussions with your

4144
02:13:55,581 --> 02:13:57,280
transformative leader, whoever that

4145
02:13:57,281 --> 02:13:59,460
might be, to address these issues

4146
02:13:59,461 --> 02:14:01,280
so that our taxpayer base

4147
02:14:01,281 --> 02:14:03,780
isn't bled and

4148
02:14:03,781 --> 02:14:05,680
our students aren't bled.

4149
02:14:05,681 --> 02:14:07,580
But you've given two

4150
02:14:07,581 --> 02:14:09,120
examples today of things that need

4151
02:14:09,121 --> 02:14:10,060
to change.

4152
02:14:10,061 --> 02:14:12,800
And I will not forget 579.

4153
02:14:12,801 --> 02:14:14,420
I will continue to bring it up every

4154
02:14:14,421 --> 02:14:16,160
opportunity because now I think we

4155
02:14:16,161 --> 02:14:18,180
can get down to 529.

4156
02:14:18,181 --> 02:14:20,180
And all of that money that goes to

4157
02:14:20,181 --> 02:14:22,100
those 529

4158
02:14:22,101 --> 02:14:23,820
other people can possibly go to the

4159
02:14:23,821 --> 02:14:24,840
pockets of our students.

4160
02:14:24,841 --> 02:14:26,660
Mr. Rothman has never admitted

4161
02:14:26,661 --> 02:14:28,760
that 571 is the wrong number.

4162
02:14:30,281 --> 02:14:32,000
Whatever number it is, we can get

4163
02:14:32,001 --> 02:14:33,720
down to those tech numbers at 50.

4164
02:14:33,721 --> 02:14:35,560
So I look forward to continuing

4165
02:14:35,561 --> 02:14:38,660
to talk about those now 529

4166
02:14:38,661 --> 02:14:40,560
salaries that can

4167
02:14:40,561 --> 02:14:41,980
go to our students' tuitions.

4168
02:14:43,351 --> 02:14:45,270
So as the

4169
02:14:45,271 --> 02:14:46,750
chair of the committee, I have the

4170
02:14:46,751 --> 02:14:48,950
dubious duty of allowing for

4171
02:14:48,951 --> 02:14:50,870
some bandwidth of discussion,

4172
02:14:50,871 --> 02:14:53,310
which is more than fine,

4173
02:14:53,311 --> 02:14:54,330
but I'm also tasked with bringing

4174
02:14:54,331 --> 02:14:57,030
you back to our narrow focus for

4175
02:14:57,031 --> 02:14:58,370
the respect of your time and the

4176
02:14:58,371 --> 02:14:59,470
committee's time as well.

4177
02:15:00,811 --> 02:15:02,870
If I can ask, and this goes back

4178
02:15:02,871 --> 02:15:04,610
to again, I think concerns we're

4179
02:15:04,611 --> 02:15:06,770
hearing from taxpayers in terms of

4180
02:15:06,771 --> 02:15:08,330
transparency within all our

4181
02:15:08,331 --> 02:15:10,390
agencies, including UW,

4182
02:15:10,391 --> 02:15:12,270
and some of those questions

4183
02:15:12,271 --> 02:15:13,100
have.

4184
02:15:13,101 --> 02:15:15,340
Been prompted by constituents

4185
02:15:15,341 --> 02:15:17,640
relative to how the

4186
02:15:17,641 --> 02:15:19,560
Board of Regents conducted our

4187
02:15:19,561 --> 02:15:21,700
most recent process with President

4188
02:15:21,701 --> 02:15:22,701
Rochman.

4189
02:15:23,421 --> 02:15:25,280
I'd just like to guess, have some

4190
02:15:25,281 --> 02:15:28,500
sense of understanding of the

4191
02:15:28,501 --> 02:15:30,820
last two or three

4192
02:15:30,821 --> 02:15:32,161
Regent Board meetings.

4193
02:15:34,201 --> 02:15:36,040
When did those take place and what

4194
02:15:36,041 --> 02:15:38,020
were the topics of those

4195
02:15:38,021 --> 02:15:39,440
meetings and were they centered

4196
02:15:39,441 --> 02:15:40,441
around?

4197
02:15:41,221 --> 02:15:43,140
President Rothman and a

4198
02:15:43,141 --> 02:15:44,860
little decision that was going to be

4199
02:15:44,861 --> 02:15:46,820
there to Have to be

4200
02:15:46,821 --> 02:15:49,100
decided on by the board

4201
02:15:49,101 --> 02:15:50,320
and was there a

4202
02:15:52,011 --> 02:15:53,950
a comprehensive board meeting

4203
02:15:53,951 --> 02:15:55,650
of all of those regions represented

4204
02:15:55,651 --> 02:15:57,810
through

4205
02:15:57,811 --> 02:16:00,670
that ultimate decision in

4206
02:16:00,671 --> 02:16:02,670
the process of your communication

4207
02:16:02,671 --> 02:16:04,470
ultimately happening with President

4208
02:16:04,471 --> 02:16:05,471
Rothman.

4209
02:16:05,971 --> 02:16:07,430
Just, again, I think it's valuable

4210
02:16:07,431 --> 02:16:08,970
to understand the process within the

4211
02:16:08,971 --> 02:16:09,971
North regions,

4212
02:16:10,931 --> 02:16:12,770
knowing that unless we have things

4213
02:16:12,771 --> 02:16:14,250
in writing, which maybe we do and

4214
02:16:14,251 --> 02:16:15,450
maybe we don't from those board

4215
02:16:15,451 --> 02:16:17,410
meetings, a

4216
02:16:17,411 --> 02:16:19,690
lot to conjecture with

4217
02:16:19,691 --> 02:16:21,070
the citizens of the state as to how

4218
02:16:21,071 --> 02:16:23,430
that process did play out,

4219
02:16:23,431 --> 02:16:26,530
either very well or not very well,

4220
02:16:26,531 --> 02:16:27,970
and covered to that.

4221
02:16:27,971 --> 02:16:29,150
So, when you speak to that process

4222
02:16:29,151 --> 02:16:31,270
with the board in terms of the

4223
02:16:31,271 --> 02:16:32,530
most recent meetings and how they

4224
02:16:32,531 --> 02:16:33,950
tied into the development decision

4225
02:16:33,951 --> 02:16:34,951
with President Raffna.

4226
02:16:37,921 --> 02:16:40,140
I'm trying to go back to

4227
02:16:40,141 --> 02:16:42,360
the last

4228
02:16:42,361 --> 02:16:43,220
meeting.

4229
02:16:43,221 --> 02:16:45,340
Well, we had the meeting on,

4230
02:16:46,361 --> 02:16:48,200
I apologize, it's

4231
02:16:48,201 --> 02:16:50,020
blurry, but the

4232
02:16:50,021 --> 02:16:52,120
meeting we had in closed session was

4233
02:16:52,121 --> 02:16:53,960
to discuss a personnel issue

4234
02:16:53,961 --> 02:16:55,880
of Mr. Rothman.

4235
02:16:55,881 --> 02:16:57,900
And we all discussed where

4236
02:16:57,901 --> 02:17:00,000
we were at with his evaluation

4237
02:17:00,001 --> 02:17:01,780
and the tasks that we asked him to

4238
02:17:01,781 --> 02:17:02,960
do.

4239
02:17:02,961 --> 02:17:04,920
And it was a closed session

4240
02:17:04,921 --> 02:17:06,980
on that, and I think it was

4241
02:17:06,981 --> 02:17:08,841
noticed as a personnel evaluation.

4242
02:17:11,141 --> 02:17:12,900
And discussions were had by the full

4243
02:17:12,901 --> 02:17:13,901
board.

4244
02:17:15,661 --> 02:17:17,680
I believe that every,

4245
02:17:17,681 --> 02:17:19,100
I'm trying to think of those full

4246
02:17:19,101 --> 02:17:21,320
board, there may have been perhaps

4247
02:17:21,321 --> 02:17:23,220
one personnel, but I do think that

4248
02:17:23,221 --> 02:17:24,420
one was a full board meeting.

4249
02:17:24,421 --> 02:17:26,100
I will get you all this.

4250
02:17:26,101 --> 02:17:27,940
I don't remember if there

4251
02:17:27,941 --> 02:17:29,100
was one person missing.

4252
02:17:29,101 --> 02:17:31,781
And...

4253
02:17:33,821 --> 02:17:35,860
We had talked about what comes

4254
02:17:35,861 --> 02:17:38,000
next, and that's when we

4255
02:17:38,001 --> 02:17:40,100
put the notice out for

4256
02:17:40,101 --> 02:17:42,120
his, to discuss Mr.

4257
02:17:42,121 --> 02:17:43,121
Ruffin's termination.

4258
02:17:45,321 --> 02:17:47,740
I am, I apologize.

4259
02:17:49,921 --> 02:17:52,120
I can't remember the meeting before

4260
02:17:52,121 --> 02:17:54,340
that when we had a closed session.

4261
02:17:54,341 --> 02:17:56,560
It wasn't, it wasn't that far apart,

4262
02:17:56,561 --> 02:17:57,780
I don't think.

4263
02:17:57,781 --> 02:17:59,201
And then we can get the information.

4264
02:17:59,202 --> 02:18:00,810
I will give you the information and

4265
02:18:00,811 --> 02:18:03,230
I can tell you that we have

4266
02:18:03,231 --> 02:18:05,150
at least, I want to

4267
02:18:05,151 --> 02:18:06,151
see the full board

4268
02:18:07,971 --> 02:18:09,910
and discussions again about

4269
02:18:09,911 --> 02:18:12,730
personnel issues and

4270
02:18:12,731 --> 02:18:15,170
it wasn't that far apart

4271
02:18:15,171 --> 02:18:17,010
but I can give you those

4272
02:18:17,011 --> 02:18:18,950
records I apologize I should

4273
02:18:18,951 --> 02:18:20,350
have had it with me

4274
02:18:20,351 --> 02:18:22,390
And I know I particularly

4275
02:18:22,391 --> 02:18:23,910
have asked for quite a bit of

4276
02:18:23,911 --> 02:18:25,610
information here in the hearing.

4277
02:18:25,611 --> 02:18:27,470
We're happy to summarize that,

4278
02:18:27,471 --> 02:18:28,630
and if that's helpful, because I

4279
02:18:28,631 --> 02:18:30,850
know it. Yeah, no, that would be

4280
02:18:30,851 --> 02:18:31,350
great.

4281
02:18:31,351 --> 02:18:33,070
I tried to write down stuff, but

4282
02:18:33,071 --> 02:18:34,071
I...

4283
02:18:36,901 --> 02:18:39,000
I think my last

4284
02:18:39,001 --> 02:18:40,860
question, which may be profound,

4285
02:18:40,861 --> 02:18:42,340
may not be profound.

4286
02:18:42,341 --> 02:18:43,400
I just think it's an interesting

4287
02:18:43,401 --> 02:18:45,220
question to ask.

4288
02:18:45,221 --> 02:18:47,420
Can you remind me

4289
02:18:47,421 --> 02:18:49,480
how long Jay Rothen's tenure

4290
02:18:49,481 --> 02:18:51,720
was in the role as

4291
02:18:51,721 --> 02:18:52,721
systems president?

4292
02:18:54,211 --> 02:18:56,170
I think he started in June

4293
02:18:56,171 --> 02:18:59,190
of 2022,

4294
02:18:59,191 --> 02:19:00,170
is that right?

4295
02:19:00,171 --> 02:19:01,890
Okay, so roughly four years.

4296
02:19:01,891 --> 02:19:03,350
Mm-hmm. That'd be four years to

4297
02:19:03,351 --> 02:19:03,780
stand.

4298
02:19:03,781 --> 02:19:05,540
Four years this June.

4299
02:19:05,541 --> 02:19:07,480
Okay. As the board president

4300
02:19:07,481 --> 02:19:10,080
and as a regent

4301
02:19:10,081 --> 02:19:12,100
board member,

4302
02:19:12,101 --> 02:19:13,960
if you had to

4303
02:19:13,961 --> 02:19:14,961
do it all over again.

4304
02:19:17,151 --> 02:19:18,670
Would your decision be different

4305
02:19:18,671 --> 02:19:20,530
relative to the hiring

4306
02:19:20,531 --> 02:19:22,390
of Jay

4307
02:19:22,391 --> 02:19:24,050
Rothman in that role?

4308
02:19:27,211 --> 02:19:29,030
If yes, if no,

4309
02:19:29,031 --> 02:19:30,450
some context to it?

4310
02:19:30,451 --> 02:19:31,370
Yeah, it's just.

4311
02:19:31,371 --> 02:19:33,850
To go back and tell the

4312
02:19:33,851 --> 02:19:35,330
future. It might not be a perfect

4313
02:19:35,331 --> 02:19:36,670
answer to it, I've just got a few

4314
02:19:36,671 --> 02:19:36,682
minutes. I mean, that may not be a
perfect answer to it.

4315
02:19:36,683 --> 02:19:37,560
I'm just kind of curious, because I
think it

4316
02:19:37,561 --> 02:19:39,620
gives context to

4317
02:19:39,621 --> 02:19:42,320
the overall discussion around his

4318
02:19:42,321 --> 02:19:44,480
role would be better otherwise,

4319
02:19:44,481 --> 02:19:46,380
and the decision that the board

4320
02:19:46,381 --> 02:19:48,600
may not only hire him, but also

4321
02:19:48,601 --> 02:19:50,600
consequently to dismiss

4322
02:19:50,601 --> 02:19:51,270
him.

4323
02:19:51,271 --> 02:19:53,130
I would say that I

4324
02:19:53,131 --> 02:19:55,110
would stick with what we

4325
02:19:55,111 --> 02:19:57,030
did. I think we were proud of that

4326
02:19:57,031 --> 02:19:58,230
choice.

4327
02:19:58,231 --> 02:20:00,090
I think Mr.

4328
02:20:00,091 --> 02:20:01,710
Rothman worked very, very hard.

4329
02:20:01,711 --> 02:20:03,250
He didn't come from the sector of

4330
02:20:03,251 --> 02:20:04,090
higher education.

4331
02:20:04,091 --> 02:20:06,050
He was a lawyer.

4332
02:20:06,051 --> 02:20:07,830
With Foley and Lardner, his entire

4333
02:20:07,831 --> 02:20:09,510
career, which I give him a lot of

4334
02:20:09,511 --> 02:20:10,870
credit for sticking with that.

4335
02:20:12,431 --> 02:20:14,450
And he came into this

4336
02:20:14,451 --> 02:20:16,250
with a lot of eagerness to do his

4337
02:20:16,251 --> 02:20:17,260
best.

4338
02:20:17,261 --> 02:20:19,520
And, you know, it's a huge,

4339
02:20:19,521 --> 02:20:20,980
difficult role.

4340
02:20:20,981 --> 02:20:23,680
So I would say yes, and

4341
02:20:23,681 --> 02:20:25,440
it's unfortunate we got to this

4342
02:20:25,441 --> 02:20:26,740
point.

4343
02:20:26,741 --> 02:20:28,860
I would rather have not done this

4344
02:20:28,861 --> 02:20:31,000
and display this

4345
02:20:31,001 --> 02:20:32,840
out in public, and I apologize

4346
02:20:32,841 --> 02:20:33,740
for that.

4347
02:20:33,741 --> 02:20:36,080
But I would I say yes.

4348
02:20:36,081 --> 02:20:37,860
I think it was a wise decision at

4349
02:20:37,861 --> 02:20:38,880
the time.

4350
02:20:38,881 --> 02:20:40,320
And you never know how the future

4351
02:20:40,321 --> 02:20:42,160
plays out and the complications of

4352
02:20:42,161 --> 02:20:44,260
the world that exist and

4353
02:20:44,261 --> 02:20:46,080
how we maneuver that,

4354
02:20:46,081 --> 02:20:47,081
so.

4355
02:20:49,591 --> 02:20:50,591
I'll run that.

4356
02:20:53,391 --> 02:20:54,790
You will, don't worry.

4357
02:20:57,071 --> 02:20:58,890
Wait 10 seconds.

4358
02:20:58,891 --> 02:21:00,650
I was on the board when President

4359
02:21:00,651 --> 02:21:01,830
Rothman was created.

4360
02:21:01,831 --> 02:21:04,230
And obviously,

4361
02:21:04,231 --> 02:21:05,510
I'm part of the major law firm in

4362
02:21:05,511 --> 02:21:07,550
Milwaukee South, pretty familiar

4363
02:21:07,551 --> 02:21:09,450
with Mr. Rothman's law firm

4364
02:21:09,451 --> 02:21:10,810
and everything.

4365
02:21:10,811 --> 02:21:12,630
At the time they did the

4366
02:21:12,631 --> 02:21:14,510
hire, I was

4367
02:21:14,511 --> 02:21:16,830
pleased it wasn't an academic.

4368
02:21:16,831 --> 02:21:19,570
I was pleased they went outside

4369
02:21:19,571 --> 02:21:22,250
academia to look for somebody.

4370
02:21:22,251 --> 02:21:23,670
Now that was just, that's a

4371
02:21:23,671 --> 02:21:25,730
citizen's kind of view of the world,

4372
02:21:25,731 --> 02:21:26,630
okay?

4373
02:21:26,631 --> 02:21:28,690
Because I tend to believe any

4374
02:21:28,691 --> 02:21:29,520
group...

4375
02:21:29,521 --> 02:21:31,360
Has too much inbreeding,

4376
02:21:31,361 --> 02:21:33,160
whether it's lawyers or academics or

4377
02:21:33,161 --> 02:21:34,380
everybody else, right?

4378
02:21:34,381 --> 02:21:35,960
They all pick each other.

4379
02:21:35,961 --> 02:21:37,800
They all like each other, and

4380
02:21:37,801 --> 02:21:39,760
so to bring somebody in from the

4381
02:21:39,761 --> 02:21:41,700
outside struck me as a good idea.

4382
02:21:41,701 --> 02:21:43,280
In addition, I don't know what their

4383
02:21:43,281 --> 02:21:45,140
other choices were.

4384
02:21:45,141 --> 02:21:46,600
You know, it's not just in the

4385
02:21:46,601 --> 02:21:48,660
abstract. It depends on, OK,

4386
02:21:48,661 --> 02:21:50,320
who all applied for this and can we

4387
02:21:50,321 --> 02:21:52,220
pick them, but at the time, I

4388
02:21:52,221 --> 02:21:53,980
thought it was a good decision, and

4389
02:21:53,981 --> 02:21:55,500
I don't think there's anything that

4390
02:21:55,501 --> 02:21:57,920
would change me to

4391
02:21:57,921 --> 02:21:59,580
say that bringing in an outsider

4392
02:21:59,581 --> 02:22:01,640
wasn't a good idea and in fact

4393
02:22:01,641 --> 02:22:03,520
some of the results prove that

4394
02:22:03,521 --> 02:22:05,440
that's true okay

4395
02:22:05,441 --> 02:22:07,800
because I don't know that academics

4396
02:22:07,801 --> 02:22:10,880
would have been

4397
02:22:10,881 --> 02:22:11,881
as um

4398
02:22:12,911 --> 02:22:14,950
I didn't pick a good word there,

4399
02:22:14,951 --> 02:22:16,491
but cutting on some of these.

4400
02:22:18,841 --> 02:22:20,580
Very good. Appreciate that candid

4401
02:22:20,581 --> 02:22:22,460
response to a development question.

4402
02:22:23,461 --> 02:22:25,400
I think it gives some

4403
02:22:25,401 --> 02:22:26,840
clarity for the decisions that may

4404
02:22:26,841 --> 02:22:28,440
have been otherwise and why we're

4405
02:22:28,441 --> 02:22:29,360
here today.

4406
02:22:29,361 --> 02:22:30,361
That's all good.

4407
02:22:31,561 --> 02:22:33,500
The request is

4408
02:22:33,501 --> 02:22:35,380
any information shared by

4409
02:22:35,381 --> 02:22:37,340
the those who testify to

4410
02:22:37,341 --> 02:22:39,800
the chairman share that with all

4411
02:22:39,801 --> 02:22:41,060
members of the committee.

4412
02:22:41,061 --> 02:22:42,061
Absolutely.

4413
02:22:49,961 --> 02:22:51,820
Any other questions

4414
02:22:51,821 --> 02:22:53,160
from the committee?

4415
02:22:53,161 --> 02:22:55,140
Anybody on the phone with a

4416
02:22:55,141 --> 02:22:56,141
question?

4417
02:23:01,581 --> 02:23:03,440
Okay. Hearing none, thank you

4418
02:23:03,441 --> 02:23:04,920
so much for your time and the

4419
02:23:04,921 --> 02:23:06,900
availability to be here and sit

4420
02:23:06,901 --> 02:23:07,900
through a committee to answer some

4421
02:23:07,901 --> 02:23:08,840
questions.

4422
02:23:08,841 --> 02:23:09,780
Thank you very much for that. Thank
you for your service

4423
02:23:09,781 --> 02:23:10,970
on behalf of the state.

4424
02:23:10,971 --> 02:23:12,390
Well, thank you very much for your

4425
02:23:12,391 --> 02:23:13,950
service to everyone engaged.

4426
02:23:13,951 --> 02:23:14,951
Thank you.

4427
02:23:22,291 --> 02:23:24,210
Next up to speak is

4428
02:23:24,211 --> 02:23:26,231
Shiri Keltzer.

4429
02:23:29,341 --> 02:23:30,400
Can you tell me that again?

4430
02:23:30,401 --> 02:23:32,040
Gallant, sir. Oh, that wasn't

4431
02:23:32,041 --> 02:23:33,060
terrible, but I wasn't very good

4432
02:23:33,061 --> 02:23:34,061
either, so.

4433
02:23:38,521 --> 02:23:39,521
Thank you very much.

4434
02:23:46,521 --> 02:23:48,840
And now we're going to let

4435
02:23:48,841 --> 02:23:50,341
that one down.