1 00:00:22,850 --> 00:00:24,509 Schools out, and for many parents in 2 00:00:24,510 --> 00:00:27,269 Wisconsin, a big concern looms. 3 00:00:27,270 --> 00:00:29,349 Funding for a childcare subsidy is 4 00:00:29,350 --> 00:00:30,769 about to run out. 5 00:00:30,770 --> 00:00:32,548 And the political backstories behind 6 00:00:32,549 --> 00:00:34,409 a tuition hike at the University of 7 00:00:34,410 --> 00:00:36,289 Wisconsin and a $10 million 8 00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:38,089 PFAS settlement. 9 00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:40,190 This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. 10 00:00:45,590 --> 00:00:47,229 I'm Sean Johnson, here with Anya 11 00:00:47,230 --> 00:00:49,089 Venwaktanok, Zach Schultz, 12 00:00:49,090 --> 00:00:50,669 and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. 13 00:00:50,670 --> 00:00:51,670 Hey, everyone. 14 00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:54,709 So Anya, how do we 15 00:00:54,710 --> 00:00:56,049 get to this point with this 16 00:00:56,050 --> 00:00:58,229 childcare subsidy that is 17 00:00:58,230 --> 00:01:00,149 about to run it out right at a 18 00:01:00,150 --> 00:01:02,149 point in an election cycle 19 00:01:02,150 --> 00:01:04,268 in a year where costs 20 00:01:04,269 --> 00:01:06,149 are already this massive 21 00:01:06,150 --> 00:01:07,229 factor on everybody's minds? 22 00:01:07,230 --> 00:01:08,529 Yeah, I mean, this is like a story 23 00:01:08,530 --> 00:01:09,589 that we've all been covering 24 00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:11,389 incrementally for years and years. 25 00:01:11,390 --> 00:01:12,929 And when I say incrementally, what I 26 00:01:12,930 --> 00:01:14,689 mean is people ringing that alarm 27 00:01:14,690 --> 00:01:15,849 bell that we were heading towards 28 00:01:15,850 --> 00:01:17,849 this cliff. So go back in time 29 00:01:17,850 --> 00:01:19,029 to COVID. 30 00:01:19,030 --> 00:01:20,629 There were federal subsidies put in 31 00:01:20,630 --> 00:01:22,089 place for the childcare industry 32 00:01:22,090 --> 00:01:23,529 while everything else is collapsing. 33 00:01:23,530 --> 00:01:24,469 This is one of these things. 34 00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:26,289 And so the childcare 35 00:01:26,290 --> 00:01:28,129 counts program was initiated, which 36 00:01:28,130 --> 00:01:30,209 in Wisconsin looked like about $300 37 00:01:30,210 --> 00:01:32,269 million going to childcare 38 00:01:32,270 --> 00:01:34,559 providers for things like paying 39 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,619 staff more to retain them, 40 00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:37,799 infrastructure needs, material 41 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,599 needs, and also some amount of 42 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:40,999 financial aid for families that were 43 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:41,939 struggling. 44 00:01:41,940 --> 00:01:44,539 And so that was due to expire. 45 00:01:44,540 --> 00:01:45,919 And so then for years, we were all 46 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,839 covering legislative fights over 47 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,479 what to do about this funding that 48 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,239 was going to go away. 49 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,139 Program finally sunset last 50 00:01:53,140 --> 00:01:55,119 summer, and then a bridge program 51 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,819 took over. And so now it is the 52 00:01:56,820 --> 00:01:58,219 bridge program that is due to 53 00:01:58,220 --> 00:01:58,999 expire. 54 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,879 So again, we've sort of been pushing 55 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,739 off this cliff for years 56 00:02:02,740 --> 00:02:03,739 and years and years. 57 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:05,639 And now the thing that advocates 58 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:06,719 and providers have been warning 59 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,019 about is about to happen. 60 00:02:08,020 --> 00:02:09,418 This new report came out last week 61 00:02:09,419 --> 00:02:11,099 saying that potentially up to a 62 00:02:11,100 --> 00:02:13,099 quarter of childcare providers could 63 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:14,299 close their doors and almost 64 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:15,899 certainly more than that are going 65 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:17,999 to raise tuition after all 66 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,519 of these funds go away. 67 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,399 And Rich, this is an issue where the 68 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:22,419 Democratic governor and Republican 69 00:02:22,420 --> 00:02:24,199 legislature definitely have not seen 70 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:25,899 eye to eye when it comes to 71 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:27,039 subsidizing childcare. 72 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,999 Refresh my memory a little bit on 73 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,019 how they did see eye to a 74 00:02:32,020 --> 00:02:33,879 year ago and how they 75 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,459 got this money that is about to run 76 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:36,460 out now. 77 00:02:38,030 --> 00:02:39,909 So it goes back to 78 00:02:39,910 --> 00:02:42,009 this fight over one hundred seventy 79 00:02:42,010 --> 00:02:43,469 one million dollars. 80 00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:45,629 Governor Evers had access 81 00:02:45,630 --> 00:02:47,489 to this money, which was interest 82 00:02:47,490 --> 00:02:50,009 from those federal covid 83 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:51,609 era stimulus funds. 84 00:02:51,610 --> 00:02:53,769 So the interest generated from 85 00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:56,069 that is Wisconsin 86 00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:57,409 revenue in a sense. 87 00:02:57,410 --> 00:02:59,669 So there was this political battle. 88 00:02:59,670 --> 00:03:01,529 Republicans said, well, that 89 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:03,209 should be under our control or we 90 00:03:03,210 --> 00:03:05,009 should have a say in how you spend 91 00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:06,929 that. The governor said, no, this 92 00:03:06,930 --> 00:03:08,659 is federal. 93 00:03:08,660 --> 00:03:10,679 And I remember watching a 94 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,599 hearing on a bill that would 95 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,319 have essentially given the 96 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,259 legislature a lot more say over 97 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:17,339 that money. 98 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:19,059 And even an attorney with the 99 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:21,839 nonpartisan legislative council 100 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,639 said, well, it's kind of an open 101 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:24,419 question. 102 00:03:24,420 --> 00:03:26,059 You know, they didn't answer it 103 00:03:26,060 --> 00:03:26,859 specifically. 104 00:03:26,860 --> 00:03:28,719 But that was a 105 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:29,679 political battle. 106 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,619 And during that discussion on the 107 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:33,519 bill, one of the authors, 108 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,280 Republican Eric Wimberger. 109 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,539 You know, toyed with the idea or 110 00:03:38,540 --> 00:03:40,759 he mused about impeaching 111 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,719 Governor Evers over this money. 112 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,599 So that bridge fund 113 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,579 tapped into that interest 114 00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:49,239 from the COVID stimulus 115 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,399 funds. 116 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,239 And that's how they were 117 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,079 able to at least, 118 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,079 you know keep this 119 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,819 program going to some extent. 120 00:03:57,820 --> 00:03:59,399 The providers were saying it's not 121 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,419 enough. 122 00:04:00,420 --> 00:04:01,959 A Democrat said it's no enough. 123 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,239 But here we are and That's 124 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,219 what's been keeping the thing 125 00:04:05,220 --> 00:04:05,969 afloat. 126 00:04:05,970 --> 00:04:07,929 Tony Evers said, it's very important 127 00:04:07,930 --> 00:04:09,689 to me that we keep this child care 128 00:04:09,690 --> 00:04:11,209 subsidy going. And Republicans said, 129 00:04:11,210 --> 00:04:12,309 well, it is very important to us 130 00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:14,129 that you get this money out 131 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:15,209 of your bank account, Governor 132 00:04:15,210 --> 00:04:17,088 Evers. And so they found that 133 00:04:17,089 --> 00:04:18,028 agreement for a year. 134 00:04:18,029 --> 00:04:20,009 But Zach, it feels like now the 135 00:04:20,010 --> 00:04:21,889 money really is going to run 136 00:04:21,890 --> 00:04:23,029 out. 137 00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:24,829 Are providers going to close? 138 00:04:24,830 --> 00:04:25,021 I'm Mike. And I'm going to talk to you a little bit about what's going on 139 00:04:25,022 --> 00:04:25,039 in the U.S. 140 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,359 Going to happen? 141 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,499 Well you're going to hear a lot of 142 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:28,839 noise about it and that's for sure 143 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:30,179 and there's there's a reality on the 144 00:04:30,180 --> 00:04:31,219 ground of what it means for 145 00:04:31,220 --> 00:04:32,759 providers and for parents 146 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,559 specifically who have to figure out 147 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:35,599 where their kids are gonna go if 148 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:36,959 they can't afford this and still 149 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,999 need to go work but in 150 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,799 a political season like this this is 151 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,139 going to be a top-line messaging 152 00:04:42,140 --> 00:04:43,699 especially for the Democrats running 153 00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:45,399 for governor. 154 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:46,659 Republicans in the past in the 155 00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:47,939 legislature and we assume Tom 156 00:04:47,940 --> 00:04:49,219 Tiffany's kind of in this category 157 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:50,909 have looked at you know, the private 158 00:04:50,910 --> 00:04:52,549 sector means of trying to fix this 159 00:04:52,550 --> 00:04:54,049 childcare issue of like, oh, let's 160 00:04:54,050 --> 00:04:55,369 lower regulations. 161 00:04:55,370 --> 00:04:57,149 Let's find some discounts or some 162 00:04:57,150 --> 00:04:58,529 savings elsewhere. But instead of 163 00:04:58,530 --> 00:04:59,869 directly funding them, they've never 164 00:04:59,870 --> 00:05:01,809 liked that welfare idea, 165 00:05:01,810 --> 00:05:03,289 as Robin Voss would constantly call 166 00:05:03,290 --> 00:05:05,629 it. And so the, we 167 00:05:05,630 --> 00:05:06,909 don't see Republicans coming back to 168 00:05:06,910 --> 00:05:08,149 the table. This wasn't part of the 169 00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:09,929 grand bargain that we talked about 170 00:05:09,930 --> 00:05:10,809 for a month straight. 171 00:05:10,810 --> 00:05:12,869 So this is a dead issue politically. 172 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:14,389 There's no one coming back in 173 00:05:14,390 --> 00:05:15,669 special session to find money to 174 00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:17,229 this. They've all known this date is 175 00:05:17,230 --> 00:05:18,679 here. The question is... 176 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,499 What will it mean going into the 177 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:22,419 fall? How much damage will we 178 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:24,159 see leading up to September? 179 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,859 And maybe because September means 180 00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:27,759 schools back in session, it'll 181 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:28,939 be a little less of a hot button 182 00:05:28,940 --> 00:05:30,259 issue, but there will still be 183 00:05:30,260 --> 00:05:31,299 people talking about it and there 184 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:33,159 will be Democrats campaigning 185 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,999 on it, especially since they have a 186 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,919 forum coming up that's 187 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,299 invited to all the gubernatorial 188 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:39,339 candidates, but five of the 189 00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:40,659 Democrats are going to appear to it 190 00:05:40,660 --> 00:05:42,219 and it's being held by these child 191 00:05:42,220 --> 00:05:43,279 care providers and some of the 192 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:44,669 groups that represent them. 193 00:05:44,670 --> 00:05:46,269 Where they're just gonna try to keep 194 00:05:46,270 --> 00:05:47,749 raising the profile of this heading 195 00:05:47,750 --> 00:05:49,039 into the fall. 196 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,059 And I mean, it's kind of a 197 00:05:51,060 --> 00:05:52,579 subjective question here, but like, 198 00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:54,179 do you feel like this particular 199 00:05:54,180 --> 00:05:56,059 cost will resonate with 200 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:58,199 people at a time when we're 201 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,579 paying so much for gas and 202 00:05:59,580 --> 00:06:00,679 everything else? 203 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,659 Does child care kind of, I 204 00:06:02,660 --> 00:06:04,059 guess, get people's attention when 205 00:06:04,060 --> 00:06:05,509 they have all this noise? 206 00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:07,189 If you have a child in your house 207 00:06:07,190 --> 00:06:09,049 that you have to pay childcare for, 208 00:06:09,050 --> 00:06:11,109 yes. I remember 15, 20 years ago, 209 00:06:11,110 --> 00:06:13,089 long before this was an issue, I had 210 00:06:13,090 --> 00:06:14,909 family friends that said 211 00:06:14,910 --> 00:06:16,769 I would actually save money by 212 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:18,549 staying home and quitting my job and 213 00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:20,089 not making my truck payment and 214 00:06:20,090 --> 00:06:21,629 paying gas and insurance and taxes 215 00:06:21,630 --> 00:06:23,449 and not having to pay child care. 216 00:06:23,450 --> 00:06:24,929 That was a long time ago and it's 217 00:06:24,930 --> 00:06:26,969 still the reality even more so. 218 00:06:26,970 --> 00:06:28,309 I mean, more people than ever need 219 00:06:28,310 --> 00:06:30,169 to have two incomes to fund even 220 00:06:30,170 --> 00:06:32,029 a modest lifestyle in Wisconsin. 221 00:06:32,030 --> 00:06:33,329 And if you have small children, that 222 00:06:33,330 --> 00:06:35,289 means they need to go somewhere. 223 00:06:35,290 --> 00:06:36,669 As more and more families have split 224 00:06:36,670 --> 00:06:38,129 apart from the nuclear larger 225 00:06:38,130 --> 00:06:39,989 umbrella of grandma or grandpa or 226 00:06:39,990 --> 00:06:41,689 aunts or uncles are around, you're 227 00:06:41,690 --> 00:06:42,969 relying on other people to raise 228 00:06:42,970 --> 00:06:43,769 your kids. 229 00:06:43,770 --> 00:06:45,409 That is just the reality that people 230 00:06:45,410 --> 00:06:46,389 are in right now. 231 00:06:46,390 --> 00:06:48,209 And if it's your reality, 232 00:06:48,210 --> 00:06:49,469 it's one of the biggest realities 233 00:06:49,470 --> 00:06:50,769 facing. 234 00:06:50,770 --> 00:06:52,849 Anya, any sense that this might 235 00:06:52,850 --> 00:06:54,729 affect specific races, whether it 236 00:06:54,730 --> 00:06:56,009 be the race for governor, you name 237 00:06:56,010 --> 00:06:56,519 it. 238 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:57,799 I mean, I think one of the 239 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,279 interesting things here is that 240 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:01,179 child care as like a need and as a 241 00:07:01,180 --> 00:07:03,119 household expense really spans, it 242 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,119 spans the state, it's spans 243 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,429 political backgrounds. 244 00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:06,889 Where that's not as much reflected 245 00:07:06,890 --> 00:07:08,769 is is in the capital where you 246 00:07:08,770 --> 00:07:09,909 have a little bit more of these 247 00:07:09,910 --> 00:07:11,829 hardline positions especially within 248 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:13,689 the republican caucus in 249 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:15,509 the assembly there is a small but 250 00:07:15,510 --> 00:07:17,149 significant enough number of 251 00:07:17,150 --> 00:07:19,089 lawmakers who do believe in a more 252 00:07:19,090 --> 00:07:20,409 traditional family structure who 253 00:07:20,410 --> 00:07:22,649 don't want to be subsidizing 254 00:07:22,650 --> 00:07:24,329 other people raising your children 255 00:07:24,330 --> 00:07:26,249 and they are really trying to 256 00:07:26,250 --> 00:07:28,029 kind of legislate around that and so 257 00:07:28,030 --> 00:07:29,389 it's not just about those sort of 258 00:07:29,390 --> 00:07:31,439 market solutions And so. 259 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,359 I think that at that level, at the 260 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:34,859 legislative level, we might really 261 00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:36,119 see this issue come to the fore 262 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,199 because people who kind of 263 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,739 don't care about some of those more 264 00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:41,699 cultural fights, they just want 265 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:43,019 a little bit more money and a little 266 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:45,399 more ease in their bank accounts. 267 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:46,719 Will those people be motivated by 268 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:47,959 not just this, but this in 269 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,539 combination with gas prices and 270 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:50,539 inflation? 271 00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:52,359 And then also, there's at least 272 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,939 one district where one of these 273 00:07:53,940 --> 00:07:56,019 child care providers turned advocate 274 00:07:56,020 --> 00:07:57,859 is now running for a seat in 275 00:07:57,860 --> 00:07:58,709 the legislature. 276 00:07:58,710 --> 00:07:59,969 I don't know that this will be her 277 00:07:59,970 --> 00:08:01,229 only issue, but this will be one of 278 00:08:01,230 --> 00:08:02,669 her strongest issues, and that'll be 279 00:08:02,670 --> 00:08:04,189 really interesting to watch how 280 00:08:04,190 --> 00:08:05,629 resonant this is through the summer. 281 00:08:05,630 --> 00:08:07,469 That'd be Kareen Hendrickson, 282 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:08,769 I believe, a Democratic candidate. 283 00:08:08,770 --> 00:08:10,469 She's in a primary with Lisa White 284 00:08:10,470 --> 00:08:12,369 and Representative Jenna Jacobson 285 00:08:12,370 --> 00:08:14,529 against Howard Marklein, the 286 00:08:14,530 --> 00:08:15,709 powerful co-chair of the 287 00:08:15,710 --> 00:08:16,679 Legislature's Budget Committee. 288 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,299 One of the most hotly watched races. 289 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:19,079 Anyway. 290 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:20,999 And he has really been clear 291 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,239 that he does not support this. 292 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,139 This is not an issue where 293 00:08:24,140 --> 00:08:26,519 there's kind of gray between 294 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,479 what Democrats support and what 295 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,419 Republicans support with this child 296 00:08:30,420 --> 00:08:31,599 care subsidy. 297 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,139 There are stark differences. 298 00:08:33,140 --> 00:08:34,439 And so if they want to have that 299 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,099 kind of debate out there, it would 300 00:08:36,100 --> 00:08:38,079 be certainly a chance for for voters 301 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:39,959 to see a difference in the 302 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,779 way that, you know, these two 303 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:43,439 parties view this issue in 304 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:43,979 government. 305 00:08:43,980 --> 00:08:45,439 That's why it was probably really 306 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,059 helpful to have Rich's background of 307 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:48,299 how we got to this point, because 308 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:49,919 some people may be confused to think 309 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,839 there was a bipartisan solution to 310 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,219 provide this funding. 311 00:08:53,220 --> 00:08:55,159 From COVID on, it was all 312 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,899 federal money that Governor Evers 313 00:08:56,900 --> 00:08:58,799 directed into this program when the 314 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,159 federal money ran out, with 315 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,939 Republicans fighting it every step 316 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:03,919 of the way, repeatedly passing bills 317 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,479 that said, we would like oversight 318 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:06,599 in how this federal money gets 319 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,059 spent, so you can't make that 320 00:09:08,060 --> 00:09:09,239 decision unilaterally. 321 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,639 Governor Evers vetoed every one of 322 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:11,419 those bills. 323 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:12,679 And it was this compromise in the 324 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,379 last time was not a compromise of, 325 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:15,639 oh, we believe this should happen. 326 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,479 It was, how do we spend this other 327 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:18,619 part of money that's still sitting 328 00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:20,639 here? So the COVID money is 329 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,499 gone. This is now on the state's 330 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:24,119 back or we will see the consequences 331 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,079 in households and businesses across 332 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:26,629 the state. 333 00:09:26,630 --> 00:09:27,889 And you alluded to this earlier, but 334 00:09:27,890 --> 00:09:29,649 I was looking back through public 335 00:09:29,650 --> 00:09:31,689 statements from the leaders as this 336 00:09:31,690 --> 00:09:33,489 big deal was negotiated the deal 337 00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:35,649 that fizzled and I don't. 338 00:09:35,650 --> 00:09:37,309 Think anybody was ever talking about 339 00:09:37,310 --> 00:09:38,889 putting some money behind childcare 340 00:09:38,890 --> 00:09:40,249 as much as the governor has said 341 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:41,189 it's a priority for him. 342 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:42,309 So that kind of gives you the sense 343 00:09:42,310 --> 00:09:45,369 of the politics on that one. 344 00:09:45,370 --> 00:09:47,209 Rich, we've got another 345 00:09:47,210 --> 00:09:49,609 cost going up here for 346 00:09:49,610 --> 00:09:51,369 some Wisconsin residents or out of 347 00:09:51,370 --> 00:09:52,509 state residents who come here to go 348 00:09:52,510 --> 00:09:54,449 to school, tuition going up 349 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:56,689 at the University of Wisconsin, 350 00:09:56,690 --> 00:09:58,709 how much first of all, 351 00:09:58,710 --> 00:10:00,549 and gives a sense 352 00:10:00,550 --> 00:10:02,489 of like, you know, how this came 353 00:10:02,490 --> 00:10:03,490 to be. 354 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,599 Well, so the tuition increase, 355 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,539 specifically for tuition, that the 356 00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:11,779 Board of Regents has approved is 357 00:10:11,780 --> 00:10:12,559 2%. 358 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:14,599 But there's another 3.5% 359 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,359 increase with regard to what are 360 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,259 called segregated fees. 361 00:10:18,260 --> 00:10:20,079 You name it, fees for 362 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,699 facilities, et cetera, et cetera. 363 00:10:22,700 --> 00:10:24,659 So we're talking 364 00:10:24,660 --> 00:10:27,739 2%, which is below the 365 00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:29,179 rate of inflation, of course. 366 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:32,259 But the argument over 367 00:10:32,260 --> 00:10:33,679 tuition, And I'm not sure if it 368 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,259 ever... Had a beginning or an end, 369 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:38,729 but this specifically 370 00:10:38,730 --> 00:10:40,759 goes back to 2013 when 371 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,399 there was a tuition freeze after 372 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,539 Republicans found out and 373 00:10:44,540 --> 00:10:46,339 loudly complained for years and 374 00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:48,179 years that the University of 375 00:10:48,180 --> 00:10:50,639 Wisconsin system had something 376 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,779 like five to $600 377 00:10:52,780 --> 00:10:54,879 million in what are called 378 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,899 fund balances, tuition fund 379 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:59,079 balances essentially reserves. 380 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,759 And they had those reserves at a 381 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:01,549 time. 382 00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:03,389 When tuition had increased 383 00:11:03,390 --> 00:11:05,089 by five and a half percent year 384 00:11:05,090 --> 00:11:06,469 after year after a year. 385 00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:08,289 So that created a lot of 386 00:11:08,290 --> 00:11:10,749 heartburn among Republicans 387 00:11:10,750 --> 00:11:12,649 and that in 2013, 388 00:11:12,650 --> 00:11:14,349 there was the tuition freeze. 389 00:11:14,350 --> 00:11:16,189 Not long after that, 390 00:11:16,190 --> 00:11:18,029 Republicans, when they had 391 00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:20,029 both houses of the 392 00:11:20,030 --> 00:11:21,889 legislature and 393 00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:23,909 Governor Walker in the governor's 394 00:11:23,910 --> 00:11:25,909 mansion, they cut $250 395 00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:28,469 million from the UW budget, 396 00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:30,309 essentially saying, you've 397 00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:32,669 got those reserves, spend them down. 398 00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:34,169 So the universities had these 399 00:11:34,170 --> 00:11:36,089 directions to spend down the 400 00:11:36,090 --> 00:11:37,629 reserves, and they did. 401 00:11:37,630 --> 00:11:39,129 Over the years, the reserves went 402 00:11:39,130 --> 00:11:40,909 down by 60%. 403 00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:42,749 Some universities wound 404 00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:44,749 up in the red and 405 00:11:44,750 --> 00:11:47,069 had to do some 406 00:11:47,070 --> 00:11:48,929 pretty stark 407 00:11:48,930 --> 00:11:51,009 things to get 408 00:11:51,010 --> 00:11:52,449 their budgets under control. 409 00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:54,269 We saw layoffs, we saw a 410 00:11:54,270 --> 00:11:55,429 lot of buyouts. 411 00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:56,989 I think of Oshkosh. 412 00:11:58,170 --> 00:12:00,209 Marathon, I mean excuse me, 413 00:12:00,210 --> 00:12:01,529 Stevens Point, a number of 414 00:12:01,530 --> 00:12:04,489 universities did that so 415 00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:06,169 The tuition freeze was lifted 416 00:12:06,170 --> 00:12:09,089 officially in 2021. 417 00:12:09,090 --> 00:12:11,829 The university system, 418 00:12:11,830 --> 00:12:13,589 the Board of Regents tread carefully 419 00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:15,689 at first. They didn't immediately 420 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:17,829 ask for a tuition increase. 421 00:12:17,830 --> 00:12:20,109 But since then, we've seen four 422 00:12:20,110 --> 00:12:22,329 consecutive tuition 423 00:12:22,330 --> 00:12:24,429 increases from the Board Of Regents. 424 00:12:24,430 --> 00:12:26,349 And they haven't been the 425 00:12:26,350 --> 00:12:27,309 five and a half percent. 426 00:12:27,310 --> 00:12:28,950 They've generally been 427 00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:32,359 close to or below CPI, 428 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,459 which is pretty high. 429 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,659 But Republicans don't like it. 430 00:12:37,660 --> 00:12:39,019 And even when they lifted the 431 00:12:39,020 --> 00:12:41,139 tuition freeze in 2021, some 432 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:43,039 Republican lawmakers said, 433 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,119 be careful. 434 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,079 If you get out of 435 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,239 hand with this, we will freeze it 436 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:49,199 again. 437 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,159 So what we're seeing now is 438 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,819 some Republicans, Tom Tiffany 439 00:12:52,820 --> 00:12:55,259 running for governor, 440 00:12:55,260 --> 00:12:56,459 saying we need another tuition 441 00:12:56,460 --> 00:12:57,309 freeze. 442 00:12:57,310 --> 00:12:59,549 That freeze lasted for eight years. 443 00:12:59,550 --> 00:13:01,089 Universities said it was harming 444 00:13:01,090 --> 00:13:02,709 quality of education. 445 00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:04,329 But on the other hand, Republicans 446 00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:06,909 said, this is about 447 00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:09,169 access. This is about affordability. 448 00:13:10,590 --> 00:13:12,489 So the tuition increases 449 00:13:12,490 --> 00:13:14,349 back to back to back is 450 00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:15,589 just not good for Wisconsin 451 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:16,590 families. 452 00:13:17,270 --> 00:13:19,249 But also the university says our 453 00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:20,949 tuition rates are lower than other 454 00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:23,269 states. So it's a really complex 455 00:13:23,270 --> 00:13:24,659 issue. 456 00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:26,139 It's just been years and years since 457 00:13:26,140 --> 00:13:28,259 they've been complaining and arguing 458 00:13:28,260 --> 00:13:29,059 over this. 459 00:13:29,060 --> 00:13:29,959 So certainly not. 460 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,699 Somebody might be forgiven to look 461 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:34,139 at that increase 2% and say, 462 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:35,419 hey, what's the big deal? 463 00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:36,679 But this is something that goes 464 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,819 back, boy, 465 00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:40,759 16 years or 13 years at this point 466 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,099 now that they've been fighting over 467 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:43,619 this particular round of tuition. 468 00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:46,899 So I think it's it's an open 469 00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:48,199 question on this issue, this issue 470 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:49,859 like any other. 471 00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:51,779 Is this going to be something that 472 00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:53,339 resonates in the campaign for 473 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:54,739 governor? Anya, how about you go 474 00:13:54,740 --> 00:13:55,009 first? 475 00:13:55,010 --> 00:13:56,389 I mean, in some ways, I think that 476 00:13:56,390 --> 00:13:58,449 the arguments that we're seeing from 477 00:13:58,450 --> 00:14:00,229 Democrats and Republicans mirrors 478 00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:02,049 the property tax and K-12 479 00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:03,609 funding thing, right, which is that 480 00:14:03,610 --> 00:14:05,289 you have these kind of levers, and 481 00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:06,789 as you pull one, another one goes 482 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:08,789 up. And so in this case, Democrats 483 00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:10,369 are saying, well, the state has been 484 00:14:10,370 --> 00:14:11,969 defunding the UW system. 485 00:14:11,970 --> 00:14:13,189 What do you expect? Of course, 486 00:14:13,190 --> 00:14:14,569 tuition is going to have to go up. 487 00:14:14,570 --> 00:14:16,189 But one of those, you know, they're 488 00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:17,839 sort of in balance with one another. 489 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,399 I think another point of tension 490 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,199 that's going to be really 491 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,059 interesting is the way that this 492 00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:23,979 affects Madison and in some 493 00:14:23,980 --> 00:14:25,879 ways Milwaukee compared to all the 494 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,039 other schools because Madison 495 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,439 especially has this international 496 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,939 cache, right, and can bring in 497 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:32,899 students from out of state and from 498 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:34,979 across the world who will pay full 499 00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:36,439 freight and that offset some of 500 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,519 those costs in a way that Stevens 501 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,499 Point, Oshkosh are much more kind 502 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,729 of aimed at local Wisconsin kids. 503 00:14:42,730 --> 00:14:44,169 You have Tom Tiffany now coming out 504 00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:45,409 and saying he wants to see fewer 505 00:14:45,410 --> 00:14:46,589 international students. 506 00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:47,929 He wants to put the W back in the 507 00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:48,809 UW. 508 00:14:48,810 --> 00:14:50,929 What will that do for this kind of 509 00:14:50,930 --> 00:14:52,769 other revenue source that 510 00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:54,509 UW-Madison has and how that feeds 511 00:14:54,510 --> 00:14:55,869 into the system? 512 00:14:55,870 --> 00:14:57,569 Lots to play with and to what extent 513 00:14:57,570 --> 00:14:59,649 that motivates voters who, again, 514 00:14:59,650 --> 00:15:01,829 maybe they face the daycare charges, 515 00:15:01,830 --> 00:15:03,269 now they're facing increased 516 00:15:03,270 --> 00:15:04,089 tuition. 517 00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:06,029 On the other end, it's expensive to 518 00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:07,479 raise a kid in Wisconsin. 519 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,039 It could really be, whether or not 520 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,679 it resonates, could just be a matter 521 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,839 of whether or not Tom Piffty decides 522 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,879 to put some resources behind 523 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,739 it and put it in front of people 524 00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:18,919 and make it his message or 525 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,949 focus on other stuff. 526 00:15:20,950 --> 00:15:21,869 There's a lot out there. 527 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:22,749 And one of the things that's 528 00:15:22,750 --> 00:15:24,069 interesting is a report just came 529 00:15:24,070 --> 00:15:25,929 out from the Center for 530 00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:27,589 Report on the Wisconsin Economy, 531 00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:28,749 which is CRO, which is this 532 00:15:28,750 --> 00:15:30,069 conservative think tank that was 533 00:15:30,070 --> 00:15:31,469 created by Walker and his 534 00:15:31,470 --> 00:15:33,309 administration at the UW 535 00:15:33,310 --> 00:15:34,689 with the goal of having a little 536 00:15:34,690 --> 00:15:37,169 more conservative-friendly economics 537 00:15:37,170 --> 00:15:38,809 ideas being floated out there as 538 00:15:38,810 --> 00:15:40,889 from the UW, giving it that stamp 539 00:15:40,890 --> 00:15:41,849 of authenticity. 540 00:15:41,850 --> 00:15:43,429 And they came out and said, 541 00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:45,249 actually, UW's tuition is too low. 542 00:15:45,250 --> 00:15:47,489 It's below its peer institutions. 543 00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:48,409 It's actually freezing. 544 00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:50,009 It is subsidizing. 545 00:15:50,010 --> 00:15:51,829 This private enterprise of kids 546 00:15:51,830 --> 00:15:53,069 that go to college and get this 547 00:15:53,070 --> 00:15:54,469 degree and then are very successful 548 00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:56,329 making their college tuition 549 00:15:56,330 --> 00:15:58,229 cheaper subsidizes them at the 550 00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:59,329 expense of everyone else who's 551 00:15:59,330 --> 00:16:00,849 impacted by these costs. 552 00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:02,089 So it's interesting even some of the 553 00:16:02,090 --> 00:16:04,489 conservative groups out there aren't 554 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:06,109 supporting a freeze or keeping it 555 00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:07,289 this low. 556 00:16:07,290 --> 00:16:09,049 Zach, I wanna turn to another issue 557 00:16:09,050 --> 00:16:10,949 with a long political backstory. 558 00:16:10,950 --> 00:16:12,629 There was this settlement this week 559 00:16:12,630 --> 00:16:14,869 or last week reached with 560 00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:17,549 Tyco, a PFAS manufacturer 561 00:16:17,550 --> 00:16:19,889 for $10 million with the state. 562 00:16:19,890 --> 00:16:22,269 This is a big deal. 563 00:16:22,270 --> 00:16:24,489 Tell us why and then tell us 564 00:16:24,490 --> 00:16:26,129 kind of the politics that led to 565 00:16:26,130 --> 00:16:26,849 this. 566 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:28,149 Well, these lawsuits have been out 567 00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:29,889 there about PFAS contamination 568 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:31,869 throughout, Tyco makes 569 00:16:31,870 --> 00:16:33,589 firefighting foam and equipment, and 570 00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:34,909 so they've contaminated the ground 571 00:16:34,910 --> 00:16:36,049 around there as we've learned more 572 00:16:36,050 --> 00:16:37,929 about what PFAS does and 573 00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:39,269 forever chemical. 574 00:16:39,270 --> 00:16:40,649 But the history of this is 575 00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:42,329 fascinating because we talk a lot 576 00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:44,289 about elections having consequences. 577 00:16:44,290 --> 00:16:46,649 This decision is a consequence of 578 00:16:46,650 --> 00:16:47,949 Supreme Court elections. 579 00:16:47,950 --> 00:16:49,729 So you have to go back and look at 580 00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:51,709 that slow transition that 581 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:53,309 occurred from Democrats and liberals 582 00:16:53,310 --> 00:16:54,589 taking over the court. 583 00:16:54,590 --> 00:16:56,209 There were two major decisions that 584 00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:58,049 they issued in 2025 that allowed 585 00:16:58,050 --> 00:16:59,129 this to happen. 586 00:16:59,130 --> 00:17:01,129 The first is that with the DOJ 587 00:17:01,130 --> 00:17:02,989 lawsuit they said you do 588 00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:04,348 not actually have to create a new 589 00:17:04,349 --> 00:17:06,129 rule for each version of PFAS 590 00:17:06,130 --> 00:17:07,709 chemical or contamination that's out 591 00:17:07,710 --> 00:17:09,809 there in order to put into place 592 00:17:09,810 --> 00:17:11,709 these kind of fines or sue people 593 00:17:11,710 --> 00:17:13,509 over the Wisconsin Spills Act about 594 00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:15,129 any things that spilled into our 595 00:17:15,130 --> 00:17:16,749 ground that can harm our waterways. 596 00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:17,889 So that was a big win that said you 597 00:17:17,890 --> 00:17:20,289 don't have to Go back each time. 598 00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:22,289 But then another separate 599 00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:24,108 lawsuit, part of the Evers 600 00:17:24,109 --> 00:17:26,129 versus Markline lawsuit, said, 601 00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:27,309 well, the state doesn't actually 602 00:17:27,310 --> 00:17:29,249 have to go and worry about the 603 00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:30,309 Joint Committee for the Review of 604 00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:31,829 Administrative Rules to promulgate 605 00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:33,709 new rules for what the standards for 606 00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:35,109 PFAS are. 607 00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:36,589 And so when that happened, the Ebers 608 00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:37,949 administration was able to push 609 00:17:37,950 --> 00:17:39,829 through new standards on PFAS 610 00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:41,469 contamination that matched stricter 611 00:17:41,470 --> 00:17:42,809 federal standards. 612 00:17:42,810 --> 00:17:44,409 Now the DOJ doesn't have to worry 613 00:17:44,410 --> 00:17:45,709 about getting sign-off from the 614 00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:47,109 Republicans for meddling these 615 00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:48,609 lawsuits. And they can actually 616 00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:50,309 prosecute this spills act for anyone 617 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:51,389 that's out there that's contaminated 618 00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:53,109 the ground, which allows settlements 619 00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:54,369 like this to happen and creating 620 00:17:54,370 --> 00:17:56,109 money to help people that have been 621 00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:57,369 impacted by this pollution. 622 00:17:57,370 --> 00:17:58,309 So you're not gonna see any. 623 00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:59,609 In the settlement language, 624 00:17:59,610 --> 00:18:00,889 obviously, but that's the legal 625 00:18:00,890 --> 00:18:02,169 environment that everybody is 626 00:18:02,170 --> 00:18:04,129 operating in now under this liberal 627 00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:05,449 majority on the court, which we know 628 00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:06,709 is going to last until at least 629 00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:08,629 2030. Yeah, and it's not 630 00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:09,909 going to change anytime soon. 631 00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:11,729 And on other issues, perhaps 632 00:18:11,730 --> 00:18:13,929 as well in subtle ways, 633 00:18:13,930 --> 00:18:14,969 but you got it. The court matters. 634 00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:16,069 That's why we watch the court. 635 00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:16,989 The court always matters. 636 00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:18,929 That is very true. 637 00:18:18,930 --> 00:18:20,189 That's all the time we have for 638 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:21,849 today. Thanks for joining us. 639 00:18:21,850 --> 00:18:23,469 This has been Inside Wisconsin 640 00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:24,599 Politics. 641 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,579 Be sure to follow us on 642 00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:27,979 PBSWisconsin.org, WPR.org 643 00:18:27,980 --> 00:18:29,839 YouTube, or wherever you get 644 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:30,840 your podcasts. 645 00:18:41,290 --> 00:18:42,969 How'd you feel about two minutes for 646 00:18:42,970 --> 00:18:44,269 that instead of three? 647 00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:45,270 No, it's fine. 648 00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:47,369 More than enough for them to pull 649 00:18:47,370 --> 00:18:48,429 out for that. I should have just 650 00:18:48,430 --> 00:18:49,989 pulled over to it. 651 00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:50,849 No, that's fine But then you 652 00:18:50,850 --> 00:18:51,749 wouldn't have gotten to that code 653 00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:51,889 thing. 654 00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:52,890 Well, I wasn't.