1 00:00:10,540 --> 00:00:12,399 A gerrymandering arms race is 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,579 happening around the country this 3 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:16,319 year. Why not in Wisconsin? 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,059 Also how some big orders out of 5 00:00:18,060 --> 00:00:19,979 Washington could affect Wisconsin, 6 00:00:19,980 --> 00:00:21,799 and a look at the closing days of 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,699 our state Supreme Court race. 8 00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:25,519 This is Inside Wisconsin 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,520 Politics. 10 00:00:27,540 --> 00:00:29,239 I'm Sean Johnson here with my 11 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,019 colleagues, Anya Ben-Wagtendonk, 12 00:00:31,020 --> 00:00:33,119 Zach Schultz, and Rich Kramer in 13 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:34,439 Eau Claire. Hey everyone. 14 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,119 Hey. Hello. 15 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,939 So Rich, there had been sort of this 16 00:00:37,940 --> 00:00:40,139 hope by Democrats that 17 00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:42,179 there was this one case in this 18 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:44,159 courtroom in Madison that 19 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,199 could potentially redraw the 20 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,939 congressional lines ahead of the 21 00:00:47,940 --> 00:00:49,699 midterm elections. 22 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:51,779 It seems like this courtroom said, 23 00:00:51,780 --> 00:00:53,699 no, that door is actually 24 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:55,499 closed. What did they say this week? 25 00:00:57,170 --> 00:00:59,449 So they said that 26 00:00:59,450 --> 00:01:01,089 they don't really have the authority 27 00:01:01,090 --> 00:01:03,289 to do anything about the maps. 28 00:01:03,290 --> 00:01:05,128 The lawsuit is seeking a 29 00:01:05,129 --> 00:01:07,269 redraw because 30 00:01:07,270 --> 00:01:08,849 of some things that happened back in 31 00:01:08,850 --> 00:01:09,989 2022. 32 00:01:09,990 --> 00:01:12,189 Well, the Supreme Court 33 00:01:12,190 --> 00:01:14,349 is the one that put those maps in 34 00:01:14,350 --> 00:01:15,350 effect. 35 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:19,149 The circuit court judges said that 36 00:01:19,150 --> 00:01:20,929 they just, they can't overrule the 37 00:01:20,930 --> 00:01:22,369 Supreme Court. 38 00:01:22,370 --> 00:01:24,269 So essentially they dismissed the 39 00:01:24,270 --> 00:01:26,329 case and it seems 40 00:01:26,330 --> 00:01:28,809 all but likely that the 41 00:01:28,810 --> 00:01:30,669 current districts, 42 00:01:30,670 --> 00:01:32,729 which are held by six Republicans 43 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:34,829 and two Democrats will 44 00:01:34,830 --> 00:01:36,069 remain the same for the November 45 00:01:36,070 --> 00:01:37,109 election. 46 00:01:37,110 --> 00:01:38,729 And just kind of zooming out as to 47 00:01:38,730 --> 00:01:40,709 why this feels like it matters more 48 00:01:40,710 --> 00:01:42,629 at this moment in time, you have 49 00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:44,509 this redistricting 50 00:01:44,510 --> 00:01:45,949 battle going across the country 51 00:01:45,950 --> 00:01:48,189 where Republican states have 52 00:01:48,190 --> 00:01:50,209 redrawn their congressional maps to 53 00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:51,989 add more Republican seats, 54 00:01:51,990 --> 00:01:53,709 Democratic states have responded in 55 00:01:53,710 --> 00:01:54,710 kind. 56 00:01:55,230 --> 00:01:57,069 Where does this leave 57 00:01:57,070 --> 00:01:58,889 Wisconsin Big Pictures Act 58 00:01:58,890 --> 00:02:00,489 when it comes to what everything 59 00:02:00,490 --> 00:02:02,029 looks like here as part of that 60 00:02:02,030 --> 00:02:02,639 battle? 61 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:03,539 Well, we're still going to be 62 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:04,399 operating under the same 63 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,379 congressional lines that were 64 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:08,359 actually Tony Evers' version 65 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,219 of the maps, if you recall, under 66 00:02:10,220 --> 00:02:12,179 the old least changed model at 67 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:13,459 the Supreme Court at that time, run 68 00:02:13,460 --> 00:02:15,219 by conservatives dictated. 69 00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:16,879 This was Tony Eivers' version, of 70 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,519 the old Republican maps, slightly 71 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:19,559 adjusting them. 72 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,619 The most competitive district 73 00:02:20,620 --> 00:02:21,999 remains the third, which is western 74 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,879 Wisconsin, La Crosse, 75 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,879 and going up through Rich's area. 76 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,019 And that race has been close for 77 00:02:28,020 --> 00:02:29,639 a few cycles. It will remain close 78 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,139 this fall. Democrats across the 79 00:02:31,140 --> 00:02:32,259 country look at it as a possible 80 00:02:32,260 --> 00:02:33,519 pickup, but the rest of the 81 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,359 districts, barring a 82 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,159 huge wave, look like they're going 83 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,379 to stay the way they've been. 84 00:02:39,380 --> 00:02:40,399 There were Democrats who were 85 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,699 thinking Wisconsin could get in this 86 00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:42,959 redistricting game. 87 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,339 Most of the states doing that around 88 00:02:44,340 --> 00:02:46,119 the country are doing that with 89 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:47,979 one-party rule, where the 90 00:02:47,980 --> 00:02:49,499 Democrats or Republicans control the 91 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:51,539 entire state so they can do this 92 00:02:51,540 --> 00:02:52,979 mid-decade, even though they're not 93 00:02:52,980 --> 00:02:54,299 supposed to be. Wisconsin obviously 94 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:55,259 doesn't have that. 95 00:02:55,260 --> 00:02:56,359 Would have had to go through the 96 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,299 Supreme Court. 97 00:02:57,300 --> 00:02:58,759 The Wisconsin Supreme Court has 98 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,639 consistently said, we do not 99 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:01,779 want to touch these congressional 100 00:03:01,780 --> 00:03:03,719 lines. They have been given 101 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,559 options multiple times and they've 102 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,439 said no through original action. 103 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,619 So that's why in this case, there 104 00:03:08,620 --> 00:03:09,899 were two different plaintiffs that 105 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:11,139 said, how about we go through with 106 00:03:11,140 --> 00:03:12,699 the local courts first and see if it 107 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:14,259 can work the way up to the Supreme 108 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:15,039 court. 109 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,759 Under a law passed by Scott Walker 110 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,099 and the Republicans, that meant 111 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:19,599 these challenges had to got to this 112 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,179 panel of three judges. 113 00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:25,049 And there were 114 00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:26,949 Well, we'll have a trial in April 115 00:03:26,950 --> 00:03:27,769 of 27. 116 00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:29,209 So a year away, obviously nowhere 117 00:03:29,210 --> 00:03:31,009 near in time for 26. 118 00:03:31,010 --> 00:03:32,189 The other one was the one that 119 00:03:32,190 --> 00:03:33,249 dismissed the case this week. 120 00:03:33,250 --> 00:03:34,669 The other panel that still has a 121 00:03:34,670 --> 00:03:36,329 case out there has not ruled on 122 00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:38,069 their motion to dismiss. 123 00:03:38,070 --> 00:03:39,489 It's possible that could get thrown 124 00:03:39,490 --> 00:03:41,169 under the very same grounds. 125 00:03:41,170 --> 00:03:42,569 And it looks like at this time, the 126 00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:44,369 flaw is in the law that was passed 127 00:03:44,370 --> 00:03:45,969 that was supposed to hear this, 128 00:03:45,970 --> 00:03:47,309 because it requires the Supreme 129 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:49,109 Court to set up these judges to do 130 00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:50,829 something. And the judges say it's 131 00:03:50,830 --> 00:03:52,469 not clear what we have the authority 132 00:03:52,470 --> 00:03:53,969 to do in this case. 133 00:03:53,970 --> 00:03:55,629 Which is why they dismissed it. 134 00:03:55,630 --> 00:03:57,449 Yet another time where this 135 00:03:57,450 --> 00:03:58,609 challenge will not get to the 136 00:03:58,610 --> 00:04:00,479 Supreme Court under this venue. 137 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,419 To the dismay of many Democrats who 138 00:04:02,420 --> 00:04:03,999 said, hey, we have a four, three 139 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,879 majority on, liberals do, 140 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,139 on the state Supreme Court. 141 00:04:07,140 --> 00:04:07,959 Let's try there. 142 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,459 Maybe not the legislature this time 143 00:04:09,460 --> 00:04:10,879 because it's not gonna go anywhere 144 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:11,799 there. 145 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,039 Or will it, Anya? 146 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,739 Because some people may have heard 147 00:04:14,740 --> 00:04:16,398 about this push by Governor Tony 148 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:18,239 Evers to ban partisan 149 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,299 gerrymandering in Wisconsin. 150 00:04:20,300 --> 00:04:21,819 He's gonna call a special session 151 00:04:21,820 --> 00:04:23,660 for that later this month. 152 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,999 Just a thought exercise here. 153 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:27,999 Could it work? 154 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,099 Could that change the lines? 155 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:32,479 I mean, if history is any guide, 156 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:33,999 Evers special sessions don't often 157 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,199 go anywhere, right? 158 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,619 Republicans who control the 159 00:04:36,620 --> 00:04:38,399 legislature, they have to show up, 160 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,199 but they gavel in and gavel out very 161 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:41,539 often on his agenda. 162 00:04:41,540 --> 00:04:43,479 But there was actually maybe 163 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:44,999 some signs that there could be 164 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,620 something to this. 165 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,439 So initially, first of all, 166 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:50,579 Republicans did not sort of dismiss 167 00:04:50,580 --> 00:04:52,699 it out of hand, which was notable. 168 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:54,059 Robin Boss said that he would be 169 00:04:54,060 --> 00:04:56,039 willing to negotiate on this. 170 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,659 Last I asked him about it a couple 171 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:58,599 of weeks ago, he said, like, it 172 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:59,849 hasn't come yet. 173 00:04:59,850 --> 00:05:01,449 So it's possible that a deal kind of 174 00:05:01,450 --> 00:05:02,249 won't be brokered. 175 00:05:02,250 --> 00:05:03,749 But when I've spoken to experts 176 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:05,449 about it, what they say is that 177 00:05:05,450 --> 00:05:07,709 because of the redrawn state 178 00:05:07,710 --> 00:05:09,809 maps of two years ago, 179 00:05:09,810 --> 00:05:11,849 kind of GOP guaranteed hold of the 180 00:05:11,850 --> 00:05:13,489 legislature is no longer so 181 00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:14,369 guaranteed. 182 00:05:14,370 --> 00:05:16,289 And so both parties would need to 183 00:05:16,290 --> 00:05:18,289 kind of map out the 2026 184 00:05:18,290 --> 00:05:20,109 elections, the 2028 elections, the 185 00:05:20,110 --> 00:05:21,929 2030 elections going 186 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:22,889 back and forth. 187 00:05:22,890 --> 00:05:24,109 And so because of that, it's not 188 00:05:24,110 --> 00:05:25,789 clear that gerrymandering in 189 00:05:25,790 --> 00:05:27,529 Wisconsin is beneficial to either 190 00:05:27,530 --> 00:05:29,639 party in a way that in California 191 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,759 or Florida, it is guaranteed 192 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,519 sort of beneficial to one party or 193 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:34,419 another. 194 00:05:34,420 --> 00:05:36,059 Because we have divided government 195 00:05:36,060 --> 00:05:37,319 and these super, super close 196 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,359 elections because we are so purple, 197 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:40,399 gerrymandering is not necessarily 198 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,359 beneficial to either side, so maybe 199 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,779 getting rid of it altogether is 200 00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:45,339 actually the politically better 201 00:05:45,340 --> 00:05:46,199 choice. 202 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:47,979 But as a constitutional amendment in 203 00:05:47,980 --> 00:05:49,799 the year 2026, not 204 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,279 gonna happen because it just, it 205 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:52,009 takes too long. 206 00:05:52,010 --> 00:05:52,909 Well, certainly, right. 207 00:05:52,910 --> 00:05:54,409 So it won't affect the midterms in 208 00:05:54,410 --> 00:05:55,309 any kind of way. 209 00:05:55,310 --> 00:05:56,949 But if there were any kind of like 210 00:05:56,950 --> 00:05:58,549 negotiation there and constitutional 211 00:05:58,550 --> 00:06:00,349 amendments take a little bit longer, 212 00:06:00,350 --> 00:06:01,909 and Republicans have said they don't 213 00:06:01,910 --> 00:06:03,229 agree with sort of the language that 214 00:06:03,230 --> 00:06:04,769 Evers has put forward, that it's too 215 00:06:04,770 --> 00:06:06,149 vague and it's too broad. 216 00:06:06,150 --> 00:06:07,709 So there's all these details that 217 00:06:07,710 --> 00:06:08,729 would need to get hashed out. 218 00:06:08,730 --> 00:06:09,889 But I think this kind of broader 219 00:06:09,890 --> 00:06:11,649 conversation, knowing that voters 220 00:06:11,650 --> 00:06:13,269 pretty categorically, regardless of 221 00:06:13,270 --> 00:06:15,129 party, do not like gerrymandering. 222 00:06:15,130 --> 00:06:16,329 They don't like feeling sort of 223 00:06:16,330 --> 00:06:17,629 subject to gerrymander. 224 00:06:17,630 --> 00:06:18,889 It could be a really interesting 225 00:06:18,890 --> 00:06:20,809 issue to kind of be in the during 226 00:06:20,810 --> 00:06:21,589 this election year. 227 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:23,189 But just to be clear, the most 228 00:06:23,190 --> 00:06:24,389 important thing for viewers to know 229 00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:26,369 is that even if a deal somehow got 230 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:27,849 passed, like the Hail Mary of all 231 00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:29,029 Hail Marys for gerrymandering 232 00:06:29,030 --> 00:06:30,409 reform, it wouldn't affect the 233 00:06:30,410 --> 00:06:31,569 current maps. 234 00:06:31,570 --> 00:06:33,429 The next time this 235 00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:34,529 would come up would be redistricting 236 00:06:34,530 --> 00:06:36,489 in 2032 after 237 00:06:36,490 --> 00:06:37,589 the 30 census. 238 00:06:37,590 --> 00:06:39,109 So these maps would be locked in 239 00:06:39,110 --> 00:06:40,229 place. The only way they're going to 240 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:41,569 change barring the Wisconsin Supreme 241 00:06:41,570 --> 00:06:44,029 Court is if Democrats win a trifecta 242 00:06:44,030 --> 00:06:46,109 this fall, then they would actually 243 00:06:46,110 --> 00:06:48,049 have one party rule to do what we've 244 00:06:48,050 --> 00:06:49,069 seen in these other states. 245 00:06:49,070 --> 00:06:51,339 But otherwise it's not 246 00:06:51,340 --> 00:06:52,459 So what about that other case 247 00:06:52,460 --> 00:06:54,019 though? You alluded to it. 248 00:06:54,020 --> 00:06:55,379 Rich, you're familiar with this 249 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:57,399 case. It's been filed by 250 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,419 law forward and it 251 00:06:59,420 --> 00:07:01,279 just took a different approach to 252 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:02,619 this redistricting question. 253 00:07:03,730 --> 00:07:05,589 Yeah, I'd say it's a slightly 254 00:07:05,590 --> 00:07:06,669 different approach. 255 00:07:06,670 --> 00:07:07,909 It's kind of getting at the same 256 00:07:07,910 --> 00:07:09,129 thing. 257 00:07:09,130 --> 00:07:11,149 The overall complaint is 258 00:07:11,150 --> 00:07:13,049 that the districts 259 00:07:13,050 --> 00:07:15,329 are designed to favor incumbents. 260 00:07:15,330 --> 00:07:16,729 So that's slightly different than 261 00:07:16,730 --> 00:07:18,689 the argument that, well, Republicans 262 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:20,389 drew the districts to favor 263 00:07:20,390 --> 00:07:22,229 Republicans. But it's, in a 264 00:07:22,230 --> 00:07:24,629 lot of ways, very similar. 265 00:07:24,630 --> 00:07:27,669 So that case is proceeding. 266 00:07:27,670 --> 00:07:29,669 The parties in the lawsuit seem to 267 00:07:29,670 --> 00:07:31,509 be more amicable with one 268 00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:32,510 another. 269 00:07:33,310 --> 00:07:34,929 They've all agreed on these court 270 00:07:34,930 --> 00:07:36,789 dates that will start in 271 00:07:36,790 --> 00:07:38,329 2027. 272 00:07:38,330 --> 00:07:39,649 So again, that's not going to result 273 00:07:39,650 --> 00:07:41,609 in any changes to the congressional 274 00:07:41,610 --> 00:07:43,869 map in Wisconsin before November. 275 00:07:43,870 --> 00:07:45,809 And if it's not thrown out on 276 00:07:45,810 --> 00:07:47,469 the same grounds that the other case 277 00:07:47,470 --> 00:07:49,229 was dismissed, it'll be interesting 278 00:07:49,230 --> 00:07:51,049 to see how that plays out before 279 00:07:51,050 --> 00:07:52,699 the three judge. 280 00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:53,739 I would say there's a pretty good 281 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:55,619 chance that we are going to, 282 00:07:55,620 --> 00:07:56,999 while it is not really a scheduled 283 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,459 thing to do in 2027, 284 00:07:59,460 --> 00:08:00,339 I think we're going to be talking 285 00:08:00,340 --> 00:08:02,539 about this map in 20 27. 286 00:08:02,540 --> 00:08:04,399 I mean, we just think about what 287 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,539 wins elections in 288 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:08,459 Wisconsin or anywhere from a party's 289 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:09,319 perspective. Well, you got to have 290 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,539 good candidates. You still have to 291 00:08:10,540 --> 00:08:12,039 have that. You got to have a message 292 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,259 voters like you got have money. 293 00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:16,139 But what is maybe more powerful 294 00:08:16,140 --> 00:08:18,249 than all of lines 295 00:08:18,250 --> 00:08:20,089 and districts that favor you, you 296 00:08:20,090 --> 00:08:22,109 change the math because you can't 297 00:08:22,110 --> 00:08:23,429 win in a district where you have 298 00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:25,589 those other three if the 299 00:08:25,590 --> 00:08:27,349 voters are tilted to the other side. 300 00:08:27,350 --> 00:08:29,449 So I think in this hyper-partisan 301 00:08:29,450 --> 00:08:31,289 era, they're definitely going to 302 00:08:31,290 --> 00:08:32,869 be talking about this in 2027, 303 00:08:32,870 --> 00:08:34,509 whether it is in the legislature 304 00:08:34,510 --> 00:08:36,589 with Democrats in power 305 00:08:36,590 --> 00:08:38,589 or the Supreme Court, where 306 00:08:38,590 --> 00:08:40,788 a 4-3 majority for liberals now 307 00:08:40,789 --> 00:08:42,808 could potentially be 5-2 next 308 00:08:42,809 --> 00:08:44,029 year, we just don't know. 309 00:08:45,430 --> 00:08:46,569 So, I think that's something that 310 00:08:46,570 --> 00:08:48,119 Like. Obviously is going to be on 311 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,259 our radar for a while. 312 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:50,839 Redistricting is always in play in 313 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:52,259 Wisconsin, and it'll never be a 314 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:53,999 topic that we're not interested in. 315 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,239 It's not relevant. 316 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:56,379 That's right. We don't have to wait 317 00:08:56,380 --> 00:08:58,379 for the next census, I'm feeling. 318 00:08:58,380 --> 00:09:00,999 So from voting maps to voting, 319 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,759 Rich, there was also this big 320 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,739 executive order from President Trump 321 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:06,959 this week dealing with 322 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:07,959 mail-in voting. 323 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,639 What did the president call for 324 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:10,640 there? 325 00:09:11,150 --> 00:09:13,109 He called for some very sweeping 326 00:09:13,110 --> 00:09:15,009 changes, essentially a 327 00:09:15,010 --> 00:09:17,149 federal overhaul 328 00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:19,829 and a lot more 329 00:09:19,830 --> 00:09:21,509 participation from the federal 330 00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:23,029 government with regard to voting 331 00:09:23,030 --> 00:09:25,469 lists and absentee 332 00:09:25,470 --> 00:09:26,569 voting. 333 00:09:26,570 --> 00:09:28,489 So the executive order 334 00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:30,489 directs federal agencies to create 335 00:09:30,490 --> 00:09:32,029 lists of U.S. 336 00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:33,889 Citizens who are eligible 337 00:09:33,890 --> 00:09:35,729 to vote in every state, 338 00:09:35,730 --> 00:09:36,609 including Wisconsin. 339 00:09:36,610 --> 00:09:38,649 And then it also 340 00:09:38,650 --> 00:09:40,249 directs the U.S. 341 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:41,189 Postal Service. 342 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:43,349 To not send any mail-in ballots 343 00:09:43,350 --> 00:09:45,389 to people who aren't on those lists. 344 00:09:46,749 --> 00:09:49,029 And it would just give 345 00:09:49,030 --> 00:09:50,429 the President Donald Trump's 346 00:09:50,430 --> 00:09:52,129 administration a lot of power over 347 00:09:52,130 --> 00:09:54,409 who gets to vote and who doesn't. 348 00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:56,269 So it's likely to wind 349 00:09:56,270 --> 00:09:58,349 up in court. In fact, a lawsuit has 350 00:09:58,350 --> 00:09:59,489 already been filed. 351 00:10:01,150 --> 00:10:02,689 There's a lot questions about 352 00:10:02,690 --> 00:10:04,629 whether the president can 353 00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:06,569 do this, and that's what we're 354 00:10:06,570 --> 00:10:07,570 going to see. 355 00:10:08,630 --> 00:10:10,409 The different parties in the lawsuit 356 00:10:10,410 --> 00:10:11,329 argue. 357 00:10:11,330 --> 00:10:13,369 So it's a big change that's 358 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:14,729 been proposed, but it's just an 359 00:10:14,730 --> 00:10:15,529 executive order. 360 00:10:15,530 --> 00:10:17,269 So it doesn't carry the same kind of 361 00:10:17,270 --> 00:10:19,429 weight as a congressional act 362 00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:20,609 or something like that. 363 00:10:20,610 --> 00:10:22,029 So I think what a lot of people 364 00:10:22,030 --> 00:10:24,189 would be rightfully wondering is, 365 00:10:24,190 --> 00:10:25,289 is this going to happen? 366 00:10:25,290 --> 00:10:27,249 Is this something that is likely 367 00:10:27,250 --> 00:10:29,919 to happen in Wisconsin specifically? 368 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,279 First thing I always look at when 369 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:32,899 these kind of things come out of 370 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:34,699 Trump White House specifically is 371 00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:36,539 what is the reaction for politicians 372 00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:37,719 in Wisconsin. 373 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,299 We saw universally all the 374 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:40,939 Democrats, including Governor Evers, 375 00:10:40,940 --> 00:10:43,079 use a profanity online to describe 376 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,759 his reaction to this. 377 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:45,819 And we didn't see anything for 378 00:10:45,820 --> 00:10:46,759 Republicans. 379 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,639 And if this had a prayer or a chance 380 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,479 of actually being legal or valid in 381 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:51,939 Wisconsin, there would have been 382 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:53,479 some of the usual Trump supporting 383 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,539 Republicans that would have come out 384 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:55,839 and said, yes, thank you, President 385 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,409 Trump, it's about time. 386 00:10:57,410 --> 00:10:58,689 I didn't see any of that, maybe 387 00:10:58,690 --> 00:10:59,829 somewhere it was put out and I 388 00:10:59,830 --> 00:11:01,609 missed it, but the overall reaction 389 00:11:01,610 --> 00:11:02,909 was a lot of crickets from 390 00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:04,529 Republicans. That signals most 391 00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:06,249 election observers saying this is 392 00:11:06,250 --> 00:11:08,549 completely not legal in Wisconsin, 393 00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:10,189 unenforceable in Wisconsin would 394 00:11:10,190 --> 00:11:12,189 remove the right to vote for 395 00:11:12,190 --> 00:11:13,229 absentee ballots. 396 00:11:13,230 --> 00:11:15,109 We can register on day of, 397 00:11:15,110 --> 00:11:16,469 there's just so many things that do 398 00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:18,049 not apply to how Wisconsin elections 399 00:11:18,050 --> 00:11:19,789 are run, barring the fact that it's 400 00:11:19,790 --> 00:11:21,569 not even legal constitutionally 401 00:11:21,570 --> 00:11:22,709 across the rest of the country, 402 00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:24,009 according to every election expert 403 00:11:24,010 --> 00:11:26,069 that we ever I mean Sean, 404 00:11:26,070 --> 00:11:27,189 you've covered this just as long. 405 00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:29,009 It's not possible for the federal 406 00:11:29,010 --> 00:11:30,249 government to dictate how elections 407 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:32,159 are run. That's done by the states. 408 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,099 No, I mean, actually, Rich was just 409 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:35,339 doing an interview with a legal 410 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:37,339 expert and, Rich, I'm 411 00:11:37,340 --> 00:11:39,819 stealing your story here, but the 412 00:11:39,820 --> 00:11:41,679 expert was just reading from their 413 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,239 phone the section of the 414 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,219 Constitution that says basically, 415 00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:47,319 this is a right that belongs to 416 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:48,619 states. 417 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:50,539 Anya, there was an order this week, 418 00:11:50,540 --> 00:11:52,299 though, not from the president, from 419 00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:54,759 the United Supreme Court 420 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,639 that overturned a 421 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,739 conversion therapy ban in 422 00:11:58,740 --> 00:11:59,740 Colorado. 423 00:12:00,190 --> 00:12:02,409 We have a conversion therapy ban in 424 00:12:02,410 --> 00:12:03,669 Wisconsin. 425 00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:05,509 What does that US Supreme Court 426 00:12:05,510 --> 00:12:07,579 decision mean for us here? 427 00:12:07,580 --> 00:12:09,859 Yeah, so there's sort of 428 00:12:09,860 --> 00:12:11,879 two levels at which this 429 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,319 decision kind of functions in 430 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:14,339 Wisconsin. 431 00:12:14,340 --> 00:12:15,959 So to go back in time a little bit, 432 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,619 last summer there was this big 433 00:12:17,620 --> 00:12:19,259 Wisconsin state Supreme Court 434 00:12:19,260 --> 00:12:21,079 decision that is the reason 435 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,859 that we have this statewide 436 00:12:22,860 --> 00:12:25,059 conversion therapy ban. 437 00:12:25,060 --> 00:12:26,939 But it is an administrative 438 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:28,379 rule. It's not a law. 439 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:29,779 And so kind of putting aside the 440 00:12:29,780 --> 00:12:31,579 conversation around what that did 441 00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:32,899 for the balance of powers, it was 442 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:34,139 this kind of huge decision. 443 00:12:34,140 --> 00:12:35,819 And one of the outcomes of that was 444 00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:37,799 that... 445 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,699 Agencies that want to impose rules 446 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:41,439 can do so, and one of the ones that 447 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,739 was imposed was around professional 448 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:45,699 behavior for therapists and 449 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:47,199 marriage counselors. 450 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,939 And so according to sort of the 451 00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:50,919 rules of their conduct, they 452 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,339 cannot practice conversion therapy, 453 00:12:52,340 --> 00:12:53,879 which is sort of a practice of 454 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,159 counseling people towards certain 455 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,239 gender sexual identities. 456 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,859 So that is the form that our band 457 00:12:58,860 --> 00:13:00,159 takes. So that's different than how 458 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,979 it looks in Colorado, 459 00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:03,439 all of which is to say that The 460 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,559 answer of how this affects us in 461 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,399 Wisconsin is it really depends on 462 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,269 who you ask. 463 00:13:07,270 --> 00:13:08,349 So according to the governor's 464 00:13:08,350 --> 00:13:09,849 office, and the governor supports 465 00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:11,729 this ban on conversion therapy, 466 00:13:11,730 --> 00:13:13,550 the ban here is still in place. 467 00:13:14,670 --> 00:13:17,169 Sort of pending litigation was kind 468 00:13:17,170 --> 00:13:19,269 of the tempering of that. 469 00:13:19,270 --> 00:13:21,229 And then I spoke to conservative 470 00:13:21,230 --> 00:13:23,349 supporters of 471 00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:25,529 overturning bans on this, 472 00:13:25,530 --> 00:13:26,789 including at the Wisconsin Institute 473 00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:27,809 for Law and Liberty. 474 00:13:27,810 --> 00:13:29,649 And they said, well, 475 00:13:29,650 --> 00:13:31,829 as soon as a lawsuit is filed, that 476 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:33,709 will go after the Wisconsin ban. 477 00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:35,369 And so the question is, is Will 478 00:13:35,370 --> 00:13:37,439 going to file that lawsuit. 479 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,339 So right now, it seems to be 480 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:40,299 on the books. 481 00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:41,879 And also, we have many local 482 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,379 versions of these laws around 483 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:44,159 Wisconsin. 484 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,559 But how soon will this be 485 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,919 then challenged here in the state? 486 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,229 That's the big question. 487 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:51,789 But definitely it carries more 488 00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:53,809 weight than your average executive 489 00:13:53,810 --> 00:13:55,629 order, I suppose, because they 490 00:13:55,630 --> 00:13:56,909 are the court of last resort. 491 00:13:56,910 --> 00:13:58,309 And yeah, and then they said that 492 00:13:58,310 --> 00:14:00,189 these types of bans violate a 493 00:14:00,190 --> 00:14:01,369 counselor's free speech. 494 00:14:01,370 --> 00:14:02,969 That's a First Amendment violation. 495 00:14:02,970 --> 00:14:04,049 That's very big. 496 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:05,549 And it was an 8 to 1 decision, 497 00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:06,709 right? Even liberals on the Supreme 498 00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:07,639 Court. 499 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,579 What's interesting is more likely 500 00:14:09,580 --> 00:14:10,819 that would be filed in federal 501 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:12,259 court, which really would take away 502 00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:14,079 the venue of the liberal majority 503 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,779 and Wisconsin Supreme Court, even 504 00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:17,459 though it's a state administrative 505 00:14:17,460 --> 00:14:18,259 rule. 506 00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:19,979 This was a federal court decision. 507 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:21,479 Free speech First Amendment is a 508 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,439 federal right. 509 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,239 So they don't have to worry about 510 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:25,699 Wisconsin's liberals running the 511 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:27,179 court. They can skip the venue and 512 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:28,839 head right to Madison and federal 513 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,969 court. 514 00:14:29,970 --> 00:14:31,269 So we gotta talk about our court, 515 00:14:31,270 --> 00:14:33,209 though, because we have an election 516 00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:34,269 on Tuesday. 517 00:14:34,270 --> 00:14:35,329 By the time we do this show next 518 00:14:35,330 --> 00:14:36,409 week, we're gonna know who the next 519 00:14:36,410 --> 00:14:37,889 justice is. 520 00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:39,769 There were some fundraising numbers 521 00:14:39,770 --> 00:14:41,669 out this week, Rich, 522 00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:44,529 as we wind up this campaign. 523 00:14:44,530 --> 00:14:45,690 What story did they tell? 524 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,379 Well, they told that liberal 525 00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:51,359 appeals court justice, 526 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:52,679 excuse me, liberal appeals Court 527 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,979 Judge Chris Taylor is continuing to 528 00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:56,919 really pull ahead in terms of 529 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,499 fundraising over conservative 530 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:00,519 appeals justice, Judge 531 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,839 Maria Lazar. 532 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,939 So Taylor in this last reporting 533 00:15:03,940 --> 00:15:05,799 period raised four times as much 534 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:06,779 as Lazar. 535 00:15:06,780 --> 00:15:09,199 She also got donations 536 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,019 from around 20,000, more 537 00:15:11,020 --> 00:15:12,559 than 20,00 people. 538 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,539 Lazar's donations came from 539 00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:16,969 about 1,700 540 00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:17,949 people. 541 00:15:17,950 --> 00:15:20,169 So a big discrepancy there. 542 00:15:20,170 --> 00:15:22,369 Also, Taylor really outspent 543 00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:23,929 Lazar this time. 544 00:15:23,930 --> 00:15:25,869 So the numbers actually represent an 545 00:15:25,870 --> 00:15:27,709 improvement for Lazar compared 546 00:15:27,710 --> 00:15:29,249 to the last reporting period that 547 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:31,289 ended at the end of last year, 548 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:33,109 which was a 10 to 1 549 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:35,409 gap with Taylor in the lead. 550 00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:36,729 But still, not the kind of numbers 551 00:15:36,730 --> 00:15:39,209 you want to have with days 552 00:15:39,210 --> 00:15:40,529 before the election. 553 00:15:40,530 --> 00:15:41,909 And some money coming to the 554 00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:43,529 candidates from the political 555 00:15:43,530 --> 00:15:45,209 parties. 556 00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:46,389 Zach, you've done some reporting on 557 00:15:46,390 --> 00:15:47,649 this. 558 00:15:47,650 --> 00:15:49,429 One of these people is going to be a 559 00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:51,329 justice very soon and they will have 560 00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:53,469 that political donation basically 561 00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:55,129 on their resume. 562 00:15:55,130 --> 00:15:56,549 Are they gonna have to step down 563 00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:58,269 when these parties have business 564 00:15:58,270 --> 00:15:59,579 before the court? 565 00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:00,879 The short answer is no. 566 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,819 And there are two different courts 567 00:16:02,820 --> 00:16:04,639 that have said that is the reason, 568 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:05,919 the first of which is the Wisconsin 569 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,039 Supreme Court. 570 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,719 And when the conservatives ruled the 571 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,599 court, but a little more than 572 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,199 a decade ago, they put in place the 573 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,119 recusal standard that still governs 574 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,579 the court that says just because you 575 00:16:15,580 --> 00:16:17,019 received a campaign donation does 576 00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:19,879 not mean that you are biased for 577 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,019 that party. 578 00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:22,399 Part of that reason, the rationale 579 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,759 was, well, what if your opponent 580 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,279 donates money to you and then tries 581 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,069 to kick you off the case? 582 00:16:27,070 --> 00:16:28,729 Another one is the United States 583 00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:30,649 Supreme Court has similar rulings 584 00:16:30,650 --> 00:16:31,689 that have been applied multiple 585 00:16:31,690 --> 00:16:33,569 times that say that just because 586 00:16:33,570 --> 00:16:35,109 you received a campaign donation 587 00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:37,149 does not mean you have to step down. 588 00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:38,350 This has been tried repeatedly. 589 00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:40,949 Republicans have gone after Janet 590 00:16:40,950 --> 00:16:42,249 Protostowicz multiple times, 591 00:16:42,250 --> 00:16:43,529 including on redistricting cases 592 00:16:43,530 --> 00:16:45,189 over and over because of the 593 00:16:45,190 --> 00:16:46,629 donation she got. 594 00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:47,889 And over and no one has been 595 00:16:47,890 --> 00:16:49,289 stepping down over this in 596 00:16:49,290 --> 00:16:50,578 Wisconsin. 597 00:16:50,579 --> 00:16:52,619 You know, I'm curious Anya the 598 00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:54,339 the both parties we said gave money 599 00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:55,899 to the candidates Democrats gave 600 00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:57,719 more but in the past They've given 601 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,899 a lot more What 602 00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:01,079 can we read into the fact that 603 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,359 they're deciding to not? 604 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:04,539 Deem this the election of all 605 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:06,399 elections and pouring all resources 606 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,838 in into it the way that they did in 607 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:09,499 the protosewitz race Or the Crawford 608 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:09,779 race 609 00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:11,259 Yeah, I mean, we are used to kind of 610 00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:12,618 hearing that level of language 611 00:17:12,619 --> 00:17:14,019 around both these Supreme Court 612 00:17:14,020 --> 00:17:15,439 elections and then also various 613 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,459 national elections. 614 00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:17,879 Every election is the most important 615 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:18,279 of our lives. 616 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,118 Exactly. 617 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,818 But this one November is actually 618 00:17:20,819 --> 00:17:22,379 probably the most important of our 619 00:17:22,380 --> 00:17:23,779 lives. And maybe the Democrats want 620 00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:25,699 to kind of keep that messaging 621 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:27,358 for the midterms. 622 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,619 And so kind of stepping back and 623 00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:30,059 maybe they're really confident about 624 00:17:30,060 --> 00:17:31,459 their contender this time. 625 00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:32,659 The stakes are not as high. 626 00:17:32,660 --> 00:17:33,939 Liberals will hold a majority no 627 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:34,739 matter who wins. 628 00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:36,719 And so why not kind of, keep those 629 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,479 resources in the bank for November. 630 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:40,439 Zach, you describe it as kind of, 631 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,179 they're making a bet, essentially. 632 00:17:42,180 --> 00:17:43,479 They're hedging their bet that they 633 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,939 don't have to invest anymore to 634 00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:46,439 secure this win. 635 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,799 I think you pointed out perfectly 636 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,599 that even if they lose the hedge on 637 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,199 that bet somehow, they still 638 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,699 maintain the majority. 639 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:54,319 But the incentives aren't as high. 640 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:55,659 And seeing the incumbent Republicans 641 00:17:55,660 --> 00:17:57,499 or conservatives leave this 642 00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:58,840 race repeatedly shows they don t 643 00:17:58,841 --> 00:17:59,841 believe the I need it. 644 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:01,979 Well, that's all the time we have 645 00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:03,099 for today. 646 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:04,139 Thanks for joining us for this 647 00:18:04,140 --> 00:18:06,419 week's Inside Wisconsin Politics. 648 00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:07,859 Be sure to follow us on 649 00:18:07,860 --> 00:18:10,299 pbswisconsin.org, wpr.org 650 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:12,199 YouTube, or wherever you 651 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:13,200 get your podcasts.