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Thank you.

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A gerrymandering arms race is

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happening around the country this

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year. Why not in Wisconsin?

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Also how some big orders out of

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Washington could affect Wisconsin,

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and a look at the closing days of

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our state Supreme Court race.

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This is Inside Wisconsin

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Politics.

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I'm Sean Johnson here with my

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colleagues, Anya Ben-Wagtendonk,

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Zach Schultz, and Rich Kramer in

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Eau Claire. Hey everyone.

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Hey. Hello. Hey.

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So Rich, there had been sort of this

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hope by Democrats that

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there was this one case in this

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courtroom in Madison that

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could potentially redraw the

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congressional lines ahead of the

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midterm elections.

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It seems like this courtroom said,

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no, that door is actually

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closed. What did they say this week?

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So they said that

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they don't really have the authority

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to do anything about the maps.

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The lawsuit is seeking a

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redraw because

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of some things that happened back in

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2022.

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Well, the Supreme Court

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is the one that put those maps in

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effect.

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Circuit court judges said that they

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just they can't overrule the supreme

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court so essentially

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they dismissed the case and

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it seems all but likely that

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the current districts

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which are held by six republicans

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and two democrats will

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remain the same for the november

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election and just kind of zoom

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assuming out as to why this feels

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like it matters more at this moment

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in time, you have this redistricting

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battle going across the country

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where Republican states have

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redrawn their congressional maps to

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add more Republican seats,

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Democratic states have responded in

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kind.

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Where does this leave

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Wisconsin Big Pictures Act

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when it comes to what everything

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looks like here as part of that

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battle?

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Well, we're still going to be

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operating under the same

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congressional lines that were

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actually Tony Evers' version

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of the maps, if you recall, under

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the old least changed model at

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the Supreme Court at that time, run

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by conservatives dictated.

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This was Tony Eivers' version, of

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the old Republican maps, slightly

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adjusting them.

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The most competitive district

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remains the third, which is western

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Wisconsin, La Crosse,

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and going up through Rich's area.

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And that race has been close for

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a few cycles. It will remain close

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this fall. Democrats across the

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country look at it as a possible

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pickup. But the rest of the

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districts, barring a

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huge wave, look like they're going

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to stay the way they've been.

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There were Democrats who were

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thinking Wisconsin could get in this

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redistricting game.

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Most of the states doing that around

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the country are doing that with one

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party rule, where the Democrats or

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Republicans control the entire state

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so they can do this mid-decade,

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even though they're not supposed to

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be. Wisconsin obviously doesn't have

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that. Would have had to go through

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the Supreme Court.

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The Wisconsin Supreme Court has

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consistently said, we do not

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want to touch these congressional

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lines. They have been given

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options multiple times and they've

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said no through original action.

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So that's why in this case, there

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were two different plaintiffs that

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said, how about we go through with

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the local courts first and see if it

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can work the way up to the Supreme

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court. Under a law passed by

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Scott Walker and the Republicans,

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that meant these challenges had to

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got to this panel of three judges.

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And there were

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Well, we'll have a trial in April

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of 27.

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So a year away, obviously nowhere

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near in time for 26.

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The other one was the one that

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dismissed the case this week.

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The other panel that still has a

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case out there has not ruled on

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their motion to dismiss.

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It's possible that could get thrown

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under the very same grounds.

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And it looks like at this time, the

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flaw is in the law that was passed

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that was supposed to hear this

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because it requires the Supreme

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Court to set up these judges to do

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something. And the judges say it's

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not clear what we have the authority

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to do in this case.

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Which is why they dismissed it.

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Yet another time where this

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challenge will not get to the

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Supreme Court under this venue.

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To the dismay of many Democrats who

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said, hey, we have a four, three

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majority on, liberals do,

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on the state Supreme Court.

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Let's try there.

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Maybe not the legislature this time

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because it's not gonna go anywhere

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there.

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Or will it, Anya?

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Because some people may have heard

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about this push by Governor Tony

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Evers to ban partisan

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gerrymandering in Wisconsin.

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He's gonna call a special session

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for that later this month.

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Just a thought exercise here.

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Could it work?

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Could that change the lines?

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I mean, if history is any guide,

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Evers' special sessions don't often

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go anywhere, right?

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Republicans who control the

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legislature, they have to show up,

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but they gavel in and gavel out very

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often on his agenda.

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But there was actually maybe

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some signs that there could be

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something to this.

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So initially, first of all,

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Republicans did not sort of dismiss

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it out of hand, which was notable.

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Robin Boss said that he would be

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willing to negotiate on this.

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Last I asked him about it a couple

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weeks ago, he said like it hasn't

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come up yet.

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So it's possible that a deal kind of

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won't be brokered.

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But when I've spoken to experts

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about it, what they say is that

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because of the redrawn state

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maps of two years ago,

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kind of GOP guaranteed hold of the

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legislature is no longer so

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guaranteed.

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And so both parties would need to

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kind of map out the 2026

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elections, the 2028 elections, the

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2030 elections going

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back and forth.

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And so because of that, it's not

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clear that gerrymandering in

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Wisconsin is beneficial to either

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party in a way that in.

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California or Florida, it

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is guaranteed sort of beneficial to

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one party or another.

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Because we have divided government

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and these super super close

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elections because we are so purple,

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gerrymandering is not necessarily

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beneficial to either side, so maybe

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getting rid of it altogether is

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actually the politically better

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choice.

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But as a constitutional amendment in

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the year 2026, not

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gonna happen because it just, it

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takes too long.

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Well, certainly, right.

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So it won't affect the midterms in

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any kind of way.

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But if there were any kind of like

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negotiation there and constitutional

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amendments take a little bit longer,

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and Republicans have said they don't

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agree with sort of the language that

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Ebers has put forward, that it's too

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vague and it's too broad.

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So there's all these details that

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would need to get hashed out.

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But I think this kind of broader

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conversation, knowing that voters

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pretty categorically, regardless of

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party, do not like gerrymandering.

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They don't like feeling sort of

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subject to gerrymander.

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It could be a really interesting

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issue to kind of be in the

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section here.

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But just to be clear, the most

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important thing for viewers to know

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is that even if a deal somehow got

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passed, like the Hail Mary of all

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Hail Marys for gerrymandering

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reform, it wouldn't affect the

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current maps.

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The next time this

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would come up would be redistricting

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in 2032 after

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the 30 census.

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So these maps would be locked in

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place. The only way they're going to

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change, barring the Wisconsin

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Supreme Court, is if Democrats win

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a trifecta this fall,

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then they would actually have one

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party rule to do what we've seen in

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these other states.

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But otherwise, it's not

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So what about that other case

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though? You alluded to it.

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Rich, you're familiar with this

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case. It's been filed by

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law forward and it

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just took a different approach to

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this redistricting question.

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Yeah, I'd say it's slightly

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different approach.

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It's kind of getting at the same

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thing.

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The overall complaint is

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that the districts

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are designed to favor incumbents.

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So that's slightly difference than

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the argument that, well, Republicans

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drew the districts to favor

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Republicans. But it's, in a

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lot of ways, very similar.

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So that case is proceeding.

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The parties in the lawsuit seem

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to be more amicable with

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one another.

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They've all agreed on these court

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dates that will start in

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2027.

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So again, that's not going to result

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in any changes to the congressional

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map in Wisconsin before November.

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And if it's not thrown out on

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the same grounds that the other case

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was dismissed, it'll be interesting

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to see how that plays out before

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the three judge.

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I would say there's a pretty good

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chance that we are going to,

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while it is not really a scheduled

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thing to do in 2027,

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I think we're going to be talking

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about this map in 20 27.

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I mean, we just think about what

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wins elections in

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Wisconsin or anywhere from a party's

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00:08:16,530 --> 00:08:17,389
perspective. Well, you got to have

288
00:08:17,390 --> 00:08:18,629
good candidates. You still have to

289
00:08:18,630 --> 00:08:20,109
have that. You got to have a message

290
00:08:20,110 --> 00:08:22,289
voters like you got have money.

291
00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:24,209
But what is maybe more powerful

292
00:08:24,210 --> 00:08:25,789
than all of those?

293
00:08:25,790 --> 00:08:27,909
Lines and districts that favor you.

294
00:08:27,910 --> 00:08:29,629
You change the math because you

295
00:08:29,630 --> 00:08:31,389
can't win in a district where you

296
00:08:31,390 --> 00:08:33,649
have those other three if the

297
00:08:33,650 --> 00:08:35,489
voters are tilted to the other side.

298
00:08:35,490 --> 00:08:37,529
So I think in this hyper-partisan

299
00:08:37,530 --> 00:08:39,369
era they're definitely going to

300
00:08:39,370 --> 00:08:40,869
be talking about this in 2027

301
00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:42,589
whether it is in the legislature

302
00:08:42,590 --> 00:08:44,649
with Democrats in power

303
00:08:44,650 --> 00:08:46,609
or the Supreme Court where

304
00:08:46,610 --> 00:08:48,869
a 4-3 majority for liberals now

305
00:08:48,870 --> 00:08:50,869
could potentially be 5-2 next

306
00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:51,870
year. We just don't know.

307
00:08:53,570 --> 00:08:54,749
So I think that's something that

308
00:08:54,750 --> 00:08:56,529
obviously is gonna be on our radar

309
00:08:56,530 --> 00:08:57,359
for a while.

310
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,839
Redistricting is always in play in

311
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,559
Wisconsin and it'll never be a topic

312
00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:01,939
that we're not interested in.

313
00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:03,319
It's not relevant.

314
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:04,459
That's right. We don't have to wait

315
00:09:04,460 --> 00:09:06,459
for the next census, I'm feeling.

316
00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:09,059
So from voting maps to voting,

317
00:09:09,060 --> 00:09:10,839
Rich, there was also this big

318
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,819
executive order from President Trump

319
00:09:12,820 --> 00:09:15,019
this week dealing with

320
00:09:15,020 --> 00:09:16,039
mail-in voting.

321
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:17,719
What did the president call for

322
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:18,720
there?

323
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,179
He called for some very sweeping

324
00:09:21,180 --> 00:09:23,099
changes, essentially a

325
00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:25,219
federal overhaul

326
00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:27,899
and a lot more

327
00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:29,579
participation from the federal

328
00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:31,099
government with regard to voting

329
00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:33,519
lists and absentee

330
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:34,619
voting.

331
00:09:34,620 --> 00:09:36,559
So the executive order

332
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,559
directs federal agencies to create

333
00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:40,099
lists of U.S.

334
00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:41,959
Citizens who are eligible

335
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,799
to vote in every state,

336
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:44,679
including Wisconsin.

337
00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:46,739
And then it also

338
00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:48,319
directs the U.S.

339
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,259
Postal Service.

340
00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:51,419
To not send any mail-in ballots

341
00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:53,460
to people who aren't on those lists.

342
00:09:54,819 --> 00:09:57,099
And it would just give

343
00:09:57,100 --> 00:09:58,519
the President Donald Trump's

344
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,179
administration a lot of power over

345
00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:02,579
who gets to vote and who doesn't.

346
00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:04,559
So it's likely to wind up

347
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:06,439
in court. In fact, a lawsuit has

348
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:07,559
already been filed.

349
00:10:09,220 --> 00:10:10,759
There's a lot questions about

350
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,699
whether the President can

351
00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:14,639
do this, and that's what we're

352
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:15,640
going to see.

353
00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:18,469
The different parties in the lawsuit

354
00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:19,389
argue.

355
00:10:19,390 --> 00:10:21,449
So it's a big change that's

356
00:10:21,450 --> 00:10:22,809
been proposed, but it's just an

357
00:10:22,810 --> 00:10:23,609
executive order.

358
00:10:23,610 --> 00:10:25,329
So it doesn't carry the same kind of

359
00:10:25,330 --> 00:10:27,509
weight as a congressional act

360
00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:28,679
or something like that.

361
00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:30,099
So I think what a lot of people

362
00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:32,259
would be rightfully wondering is,

363
00:10:32,260 --> 00:10:33,339
is this going to happen?

364
00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:35,319
Is this something that is likely

365
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,989
to happen in Wisconsin specifically?

366
00:10:37,990 --> 00:10:39,349
First thing I always look at when

367
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:40,949
these kind of things come out of

368
00:10:40,950 --> 00:10:42,769
Trump White House specifically is

369
00:10:42,770 --> 00:10:44,609
what is the reaction for politicians

370
00:10:44,610 --> 00:10:45,669
in Wisconsin.

371
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:47,369
We saw universally all the

372
00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:48,869
Democrats, including Governor Evers

373
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:50,709
use a profanity online to

374
00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:52,749
describe his reaction to this,

375
00:10:52,750 --> 00:10:53,889
and we didn't see anything for

376
00:10:53,890 --> 00:10:54,909
Republicans.

377
00:10:54,910 --> 00:10:56,689
And if this had a prayer or a chance

378
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:58,549
of actually being legal or valid in

379
00:10:58,550 --> 00:11:00,009
Wisconsin, there would have been

380
00:11:00,010 --> 00:11:01,549
some of the usual Trump supporting

381
00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:02,609
Republicans that would have come out

382
00:11:02,610 --> 00:11:03,909
and said, yes, thank you, President

383
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:05,479
Trump, it's about time.

384
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:06,779
I didn't see any of that, maybe

385
00:11:06,780 --> 00:11:07,899
somewhere it was put out and I

386
00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:09,679
missed it, but the overall reaction

387
00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:10,979
was a lot of crickets from

388
00:11:10,980 --> 00:11:12,599
Republicans. That signals most

389
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,319
election observers saying this is

390
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,599
completely not legal in Wisconsin,

391
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,279
unenforceable in Wisconsin would

392
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,259
remove the right to vote for

393
00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:21,299
absentee ballots.

394
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:23,179
We can register on day of,

395
00:11:23,180 --> 00:11:24,539
there's just so many things that do

396
00:11:24,540 --> 00:11:26,119
not apply to how Wisconsin elections

397
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,859
are run, barring the fact that it's

398
00:11:27,860 --> 00:11:29,639
not even legal constitutionally

399
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:30,779
across the rest of the country,

400
00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:32,079
according to every election expert

401
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,279
that we ever talk to.

402
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,629
I mean. Sean, you've covered this

403
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:36,609
just as long. It's not possible for

404
00:11:36,610 --> 00:11:37,849
the federal government to dictate

405
00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:38,729
how elections are run.

406
00:11:38,730 --> 00:11:40,229
That's done by the states.

407
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:42,169
No, I mean, actually, Rich was just

408
00:11:42,170 --> 00:11:43,409
doing an interview with a legal

409
00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:45,249
expert and, Rich,

410
00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:47,169
I'm stealing your story here,

411
00:11:47,170 --> 00:11:49,109
but the expert was just reading

412
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:50,989
from their phone the section

413
00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:52,169
of the Constitution that says

414
00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:54,129
basically this is a right

415
00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:56,689
that belongs to states.

416
00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:58,609
Anya, there was an order this week,

417
00:11:58,610 --> 00:12:00,369
though, not from the president, from

418
00:12:00,370 --> 00:12:02,829
the United Supreme Court

419
00:12:02,830 --> 00:12:04,709
that overturned a

420
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:06,809
conversion therapy ban in

421
00:12:06,810 --> 00:12:07,810
Colorado.

422
00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:10,489
We have a conversion therapy ban in

423
00:12:10,490 --> 00:12:11,749
Wisconsin.

424
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:13,109
What does that U.S.

425
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:15,009
Supreme Court decision mean for us

426
00:12:15,010 --> 00:12:15,649
here?

427
00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:17,929
Yeah, so there's sort of

428
00:12:17,930 --> 00:12:19,929
two levels at which this

429
00:12:19,930 --> 00:12:21,389
decision kind of functions in

430
00:12:21,390 --> 00:12:22,409
Wisconsin.

431
00:12:22,410 --> 00:12:24,029
So to go back in time a little bit,

432
00:12:24,030 --> 00:12:25,689
last summer there was this big

433
00:12:25,690 --> 00:12:27,329
Wisconsin state Supreme Court

434
00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:29,349
decision that is the reason that

435
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:31,469
we have this statewide conversion

436
00:12:31,470 --> 00:12:33,129
therapy ban.

437
00:12:33,130 --> 00:12:35,009
But it is an administrative

438
00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:36,489
rule. It's not a law.

439
00:12:36,490 --> 00:12:37,869
And so kind of putting aside the

440
00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:39,649
conversation around what that did

441
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:40,969
for the balance of powers, it was

442
00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:42,209
this kind of huge decision.

443
00:12:42,210 --> 00:12:43,889
And one of the outcomes of that was

444
00:12:43,890 --> 00:12:44,890
that...

445
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:47,759
Agencies that want to impose rules

446
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,499
can do so, and one of the ones that

447
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:51,799
was imposed was around professional

448
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,779
behavior for therapists and

449
00:12:53,780 --> 00:12:55,279
marriage counselors.

450
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,019
And so according to sort of the

451
00:12:57,020 --> 00:12:58,979
rules of their conduct, they

452
00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:00,399
cannot practice conversion therapy,

453
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,979
which is sort of a practice of

454
00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:03,239
counseling people towards certain

455
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,299
gender sexual identities.

456
00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:06,939
So that is the form that our band

457
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:08,239
takes. So that's different than how

458
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,999
it looks in Colorado.

459
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,559
All of which is to say that the

460
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:12,619
answer of how this affects us in

461
00:13:12,620 --> 00:13:14,459
Wisconsin is It really depends on

462
00:13:14,460 --> 00:13:15,329
who you ask.

463
00:13:15,330 --> 00:13:16,409
So according to the governor's

464
00:13:16,410 --> 00:13:17,909
office and the governor supports

465
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:19,789
this ban on conversion therapy,

466
00:13:19,790 --> 00:13:21,529
the ban here is still in place.

467
00:13:22,630 --> 00:13:25,209
Sort of pending litigation was kind

468
00:13:25,210 --> 00:13:27,309
of the tempering of that.

469
00:13:27,310 --> 00:13:29,289
And then I spoke to conservative

470
00:13:29,290 --> 00:13:31,429
supporters of

471
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:33,609
overturning bans on this,

472
00:13:33,610 --> 00:13:34,869
including at the Wisconsin Institute

473
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:35,909
for Law and Liberty.

474
00:13:35,910 --> 00:13:37,729
And they said, well,

475
00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:39,889
as soon as a lawsuit is filed, that

476
00:13:39,890 --> 00:13:41,809
will go after the Wisconsin ban.

477
00:13:41,810 --> 00:13:43,429
And so the question is, is Will

478
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:45,509
going to file that lawsuit.

479
00:13:45,510 --> 00:13:47,409
So right now, it seems to be

480
00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:48,369
on the books.

481
00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:49,949
And also, we have many local

482
00:13:49,950 --> 00:13:51,449
versions of these laws around

483
00:13:51,450 --> 00:13:52,229
Wisconsin.

484
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:54,709
But how soon will this be

485
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:56,989
then challenged here in the state?

486
00:13:56,990 --> 00:13:58,309
That's the big question.

487
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:59,849
But definitely it carries more

488
00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:01,889
weight than your average executive

489
00:14:01,890 --> 00:14:03,889
order, I suppose, because they are

490
00:14:03,890 --> 00:14:04,979
the court of last resort.

491
00:14:04,980 --> 00:14:06,379
And yeah, and then they said that

492
00:14:06,380 --> 00:14:08,259
these types of bans violate a

493
00:14:08,260 --> 00:14:09,439
counselor's free speech.

494
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,039
That's a First Amendment violation.

495
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,099
That's very big.

496
00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:13,639
And it was an 8 to 1 decision,

497
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:14,779
right? Even liberals on the Supreme

498
00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:15,639
Court.

499
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,359
Well, what's interesting is more

500
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,639
likely that would be filed in

501
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:19,919
federal court, which really would

502
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,739
take away the venue of the liberal

503
00:14:21,740 --> 00:14:23,079
majority and Wisconsin Supreme

504
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,819
Court. Even though it's a state

505
00:14:24,820 --> 00:14:26,639
administrative rule, this was

506
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,059
a federal court decision.

507
00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:29,539
Free speech First Amendment is a

508
00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:30,499
federal right.

509
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:32,299
So they don't have to worry about

510
00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:33,779
Wisconsin's liberals running the

511
00:14:33,780 --> 00:14:35,239
court. They can skip the venue and

512
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,859
head right to Madison and federal

513
00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:37,860
court.

514
00:14:38,020 --> 00:14:39,239
So we gotta talk about our court

515
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,279
though, because we have an election

516
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,339
on Tuesday.

517
00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:43,399
By the time we do this show next

518
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,479
week, we're gonna know who the next

519
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,959
justice is.

520
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,839
There were some fundraising numbers

521
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,739
out this week, Rich,

522
00:14:49,740 --> 00:14:52,599
as we wind up this campaign.

523
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:53,760
What story did they tell?

524
00:14:55,150 --> 00:14:57,449
Well, they told that liberal

525
00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:59,409
appeals court justice,

526
00:14:59,410 --> 00:15:00,749
excuse me, liberal appeals court

527
00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:03,049
judge Chris Taylor is continuing to

528
00:15:03,050 --> 00:15:05,009
really pull ahead in terms of

529
00:15:05,010 --> 00:15:06,589
fundraising over conservative

530
00:15:06,590 --> 00:15:08,589
appeals justice, Judge

531
00:15:08,590 --> 00:15:09,909
Maria Lazar.

532
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:12,009
So Taylor in this last reporting

533
00:15:12,010 --> 00:15:13,889
period raised four times as much

534
00:15:13,890 --> 00:15:14,869
as Lazar.

535
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:17,269
She also got donations

536
00:15:17,270 --> 00:15:19,089
from around 20,000, more

537
00:15:19,090 --> 00:15:20,629
than 20, 000 people.

538
00:15:20,630 --> 00:15:22,609
Lazar's donations came from

539
00:15:22,610 --> 00:15:25,049
about 1,700

540
00:15:25,050 --> 00:15:27,269
people, so a big discrepancy

541
00:15:27,270 --> 00:15:28,249
there.

542
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:30,429
Also, Taylor really outspent

543
00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:32,029
Lazar this time.

544
00:15:32,030 --> 00:15:33,949
So the numbers actually represent an

545
00:15:33,950 --> 00:15:35,789
improvement for Lazar compared

546
00:15:35,790 --> 00:15:37,309
to the last reporting period that

547
00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:39,309
ended at the end of last year,

548
00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:41,169
which was a 10 to one

549
00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:43,509
gap with Taylor in the lead.

550
00:15:43,510 --> 00:15:44,809
But still, not the kind of numbers

551
00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:47,269
you want to have with days

552
00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:48,959
before the election.

553
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,059
Money coming to the candidates from

554
00:15:51,060 --> 00:15:53,279
the political parties.

555
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,459
Zach, you've done some reporting on

556
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:55,719
this.

557
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,499
One of these people is going to be a

558
00:15:57,500 --> 00:15:59,259
justice very soon, and they will

559
00:15:59,260 --> 00:16:00,959
have that political donation

560
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,199
basically on their resume.

561
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,639
Are they going to have to step down

562
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,339
when these parties have business

563
00:16:06,340 --> 00:16:07,639
before the court?

564
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:08,959
The short answer is no.

565
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,879
And there are two different courts

566
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,679
that have said that is the reason.

567
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:13,979
The first of which is the Wisconsin

568
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:15,119
Supreme Court.

569
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,779
And when the conservatives ruled the

570
00:16:16,780 --> 00:16:18,659
court, but a little more than

571
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:20,279
a decade ago, they put in place the

572
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,179
recusal standard that still governs

573
00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:23,659
the court that says just because you

574
00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:25,079
received a campaign donation does

575
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,939
not mean that you are biased for

576
00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:29,059
that party.

577
00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:30,459
Part of that reason, the rationale

578
00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:31,819
was, well, what if your opponent

579
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:33,359
donates money to you and then tries

580
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,129
to kick you off the case?

581
00:16:35,130 --> 00:16:36,789
Another one is the United States

582
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:38,729
Supreme Court has similar rulings

583
00:16:38,730 --> 00:16:39,729
that have been applied multiple

584
00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:41,629
times that say that just because

585
00:16:41,630 --> 00:16:43,189
you received a campaign donation

586
00:16:43,190 --> 00:16:45,209
does not mean you have to step down.

587
00:16:45,210 --> 00:16:46,370
This has been tried repeatedly.

588
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:49,029
Republicans have gone after Janet

589
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:50,309
Protostowicz multiple times,

590
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:51,589
including on redistricting cases

591
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:53,249
over and over because of the

592
00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:54,689
donation she got.

593
00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:55,949
And over and no one has been

594
00:16:55,950 --> 00:16:57,369
stepping down over this in

595
00:16:57,370 --> 00:16:58,649
Wisconsin.

596
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:00,689
You know, I'm curious Anya the

597
00:17:00,690 --> 00:17:02,409
the both parties we said gave money

598
00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:03,969
to the candidates Democrats gave

599
00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:05,889
more but in the past They've given

600
00:17:05,890 --> 00:17:07,969
a lot more What

601
00:17:07,970 --> 00:17:09,129
can we read into the fact that

602
00:17:09,130 --> 00:17:11,429
they're deciding to not?

603
00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:12,608
Deem this the election of all

604
00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:14,469
elections and pouring all resources

605
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:15,889
in into it the way that they did in

606
00:17:15,890 --> 00:17:17,568
the protosewitz race or the Crawford

607
00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:17,838
race

608
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,318
Yeah, I mean, we are used to kind of

609
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:20,699
hearing that level of language

610
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:22,078
around both these Supreme Court

611
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:23,499
elections and then also various

612
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:24,529
national elections.

613
00:17:24,530 --> 00:17:25,949
Every election is the most important

614
00:17:25,950 --> 00:17:26,348
of our lives.

615
00:17:26,349 --> 00:17:28,529
Exactly, but this one November is

616
00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:29,969
actually probably the most important

617
00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:31,329
of our lives, and maybe the

618
00:17:31,330 --> 00:17:33,269
Democrats want to kind of keep that

619
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:35,269
messaging for the midterms,

620
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:36,649
and so kind of stepping back and

621
00:17:36,650 --> 00:17:38,129
maybe they're really confident about

622
00:17:38,130 --> 00:17:39,529
their contender this time.

623
00:17:39,530 --> 00:17:40,929
The stakes are not as high, liberals

624
00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:42,469
will hold a majority no matter who

625
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:44,409
wins, and so why not kind of,

626
00:17:44,410 --> 00:17:45,949
keep those resources in the bank for

627
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:46,559
November?

628
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,459
Zach, you describe it as kind of,

629
00:17:48,460 --> 00:17:50,259
they're making a bet, essentially.

630
00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:51,539
They're hedging their bet that they

631
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:53,039
don't have to invest anymore to

632
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,519
secure this win.

633
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:55,859
I think you pointed out perfectly

634
00:17:55,860 --> 00:17:57,659
that even if they lose the hedge on

635
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,259
that bet somehow, they still

636
00:17:59,260 --> 00:18:00,779
maintain the majority.

637
00:18:00,780 --> 00:18:02,359
But the incentives aren't as high.

638
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:03,719
And seeing the incumbent Republicans

639
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,579
or conservatives leave this

640
00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:06,959
race repeatedly shows they don't

641
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,960
believe the same either.

642
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:10,039
Well, that's all the time we have

643
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,159
for today.

644
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,219
Thanks for joining us for this

645
00:18:12,220 --> 00:18:14,519
week's Inside Wisconsin Politics.

646
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:15,939
Be sure to follow us on

647
00:18:15,940 --> 00:18:18,339
pbswisconsin.org, wpr.org

648
00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:20,279
YouTube, or wherever you

649
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,280
get your podcasts.