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Days before the Democratic primary

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for governor, it seems like two

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camps have finally emerged.

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Why is the establishment more

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united now?

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And is it too little, too late?

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This is Inside Wisconsin Politics.

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I'm Sean Johnson here with my

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colleagues, Anya Van Wagtendonck,

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Zach Schultz, and Rich Kramer in

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Eau Claire. Hey everyone.

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Hello.

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So it seems like just a

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few weeks ago on this show,

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we were all kind of wondering where

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all these candidates in this big

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primary fit, what

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were their political lanes?

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It seems like the mainstream front

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runner at that point was less

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clear.

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Zach, why is it sort of coming

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into focus now and is

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there enough time?

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I think you have to look at this

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primary in the context of the

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national political mood for primary

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voters, which are Democrats that are

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mainly angry at Donald Trump and his

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administration.

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If you look at it in that frame,

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the establishment's the bad guy.

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The establishment is national

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Democrats who haven't done enough to

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stand up to Trump.

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So tapping into those voters meant

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you couldn't be the establishment

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because then you were on the side of

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inertia.

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So Francesca Hong clearly moved to

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the left. She was going to fight,

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fight, fight.

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And a lot of the other Democrats in

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this race were trying to outflank

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her, and they just could not.

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Even as late as a few weeks ago,

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David Crowley was not happy to be

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called the establishment.

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Mandela Barnes denied that there was

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any lane that he could be put into

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before he dropped out of the race.

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No one wanted to be pinned as

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establishment because that

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kind of denied them access to the

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voters that were upset and wanted

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change.

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That looked like more of the same.

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And so it is a little too

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late in the sense that if there's a

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lot votes that have already been

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cast, but it is now.

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Clearly going that there has to be a

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centralized candidate of

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establishment power if they want

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to challenge the lane that Francesca

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Hong has already solidified for

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herself.

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And I know you've covered David

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Crowley. I mean, it seems like he

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still doesn't want that

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establishment label for

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a variety of reasons.

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Why is that?

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Yeah, I mean, part of it is what

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Zach just described, is that there's

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really a lot of anger towards

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the establishment for, I think,

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what Democrats feel or some

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Democrats feel has been inertia

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and sort of not enough of a

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fight and not wanting the status

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quo. But also David Crowley has a

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particularly kind of interesting

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personal backstory.

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He comes from a really

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sort of impoverished challenge

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background in Milwaukee.

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And so up until, you

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know, he dropped out the first time

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in this race.

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He was kind of described as

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potentially not electable because

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statewide there's

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sometimes negative feelings about

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Milwaukee, there is always

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the racial element of the fact that

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there's never been a black man

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elected to statewide office in

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Wisconsin, so there were all these

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questions about him.

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Then he comes back with the

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endorsement of Tony Evers and all of

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a sudden he's described as the

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establishment.

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One thing I've heard from a lot of

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his supporters is like...

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Well, which one is it?

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Is it that he's too Milwaukee or is

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he too establishment?

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He can't be both.

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Why is he being held to the

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standard? And I think he's also

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trying to say, I've

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really kind of had to fight

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to get everything that I've ever

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had. I was not handed things.

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I am not on this kind of gilded

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establishment path.

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That said, I do have some of this

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backing and the resources that will

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allow me to win.

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So again, it's a little bit

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threading the needle of I'm a viable

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candidate, but I will also stand

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up to the things that you're angry

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about.

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You know, I always worry when we

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start putting candidates into camps

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like this, whether this is just sort

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of a media narrative that we've

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created or if there's something real

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to it, but I feel like the

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fundraising numbers that came out

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this week, Rich, do put some

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substance behind the idea

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that there are these camps emerging

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between Francesca Hong and

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David Crowley.

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What did they show?

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Well, they showed a couple of things

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that were pretty notable.

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First of all, Crowley raised

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more than twice as much money during

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the month of July, most of the

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month, most of month of the

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July. He raised $776,000

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there about, and Hong brought in

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around $339,000.

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So that is a big sign that,

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at least in terms of money,

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Crowley's campaign is getting some

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backing. And the other sign that

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caught my attention was Governor

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Tony Evers, you know, who endorsed

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Crowley's campaign, which is

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definitely being framed as an

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alternative to Francesca Hong.

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He also gave $20,000

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from Evers'

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campaign account to Crowley campaign

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account.

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That's not a lot of money, but I was

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talking with Anthony Trigosky, the

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political science professor over at

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UW-La Crosse, and he said,

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you know, it's not lot of my $20.000

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doesn't buy you a whole lot, but

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it could be a signal to

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Evers donors, Eber supporters that.

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I'm not just saying I support this,

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I'm putting my money behind it.

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So, Tchaikovsky was saying it's

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potentially possible that

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it'll open up some more of that

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money from the more

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moderate, quote unquote,

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establishment wing of the party.

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Yeah, I mean, I think anecdotally, I

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do see the message being received

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as some of these other candidates'

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campaign signs in my neighborhood

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anyway, in Madison, that were

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supporting people like Sarah

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Rodriguez, for example, have changed

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to David Crowley.

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I guess my question though, Zach,

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is can Governor Tony Evers,

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popular governor, popular within the

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party, but a lame duck governor

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this late in

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a primary campaign?

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Kind of steer the ship like

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this. Can he tell everybody at

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once at the last minute?

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Hey vote for this guy

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He can try, but the evidence

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throughout history shows that

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endorsements don't do a lot,

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especially late.

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Early endorsements show that

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a candidate has viability.

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Early endorsement from unions or

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from old political people can really

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surge momentum early in the game

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when it's necessary for someone

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like David Crowley to have boosted

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his name in a crowded field.

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Late in the games it has less impact

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because people have made up their

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own minds and they're less likely to

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be swayed by one political figure.

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They can say, oh, that's nice, you

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like him.

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But I've already had time to make up

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my mind. And we've seen it with the

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Michigan governor and her

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endorsement and the Michigan Senate

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race and her candidate losing.

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We've seen in other places where

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endorsements don't have the same

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power that maybe they did 20,

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30, 40, 50 years ago when

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bestowing the next person as an

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establishment figure meant a lot

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more than in today's politics.

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The governor wants to frame it as

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sort of a binary choice, a

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two-candidate race.

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It's not that.

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There are still other candidates in

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the race. Senator Calderoy's,

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former Department of Administration

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Secretary Joel Brennan.

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Anya, how do they fit into

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this and what role

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could they play in this primary?

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Yeah, I mean, we do end up kind of

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talking and we have for the last

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couple of weeks about it as almost a

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Crowley Hong race.

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And so they do end of kind of

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getting some some perhaps shafting

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in the conversation from the media

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because I think there's a sense that

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this is Hong's race to lose is the

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phrase that you've used before.

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And so it's kind of Hong against

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everyone else.

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And so Crowley has been sort of the

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anointed one.

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But then Roy's and Brennan are just

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kind of in the mix there.

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And so I think it really is again

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when we talk about establishment

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versus progressive.

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The other three candidates just kind

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of get lumped together.

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They're obviously trying to

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distinguish themselves.

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Again, when we talk about

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endorsements, Calderoy's got this

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really important teacher's union

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endorsement that didn't seem to

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really shift anything early on,

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whereas 10, 15 years

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ago, that would have been a much

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more meaningful thing.

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So again, I think it just kind

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speaks to you.

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Francesca Hong is running a really

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unique, strange race.

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She has not raised as much money,

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but it doesn't seem matter.

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She's making sort of headlines.

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On her own, sort of

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organically, rather than through

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these paid ways.

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And then all these other candidates

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are just kind of trying to

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catch up.

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And she's not putting herself on TV,

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but other people are, you've had

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these Republican groups consistently

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putting her in TV ads, calling her

285
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:13,909
liberal ahead of this primary.

286
00:08:13,910 --> 00:08:15,769
She has spent zero dollars

287
00:08:15,770 --> 00:08:17,709
on television, which is just unheard

288
00:08:17,710 --> 00:08:19,929
of in any type of serious race.

289
00:08:19,930 --> 00:08:21,169
And she's not running just a serious

290
00:08:21,170 --> 00:08:22,389
race, she's running the leading

291
00:08:22,390 --> 00:08:23,349
race.

292
00:08:23,350 --> 00:08:25,329
She's doing some digital media

293
00:08:25,330 --> 00:08:26,349
and things like this.

294
00:08:26,350 --> 00:08:28,449
But a lot of her campaign is very

295
00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:29,849
grassroots, very kind of door to

296
00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:31,809
door. And so you're right, if you

297
00:08:31,810 --> 00:08:34,009
see her face on your TV or on your

298
00:08:34,010 --> 00:08:35,109
YouTube, it is because these

299
00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:36,928
Republican groups are paying for

300
00:08:36,929 --> 00:08:38,329
ads, trying to get her over the

301
00:08:38,330 --> 00:08:39,428
finish line, cause they think she's

302
00:08:39,429 --> 00:08:41,279
beatable. But meanwhile, she kind

303
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:42,819
of says, you know, thanks for

304
00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:44,569
calling attention to my policies.

305
00:08:44,570 --> 00:08:46,569
So our election is not happening in

306
00:08:46,570 --> 00:08:47,509
a vacuum.

307
00:08:47,510 --> 00:08:49,589
There is kind of this wave of

308
00:08:49,590 --> 00:08:51,189
democratic socialist or democratic

309
00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:52,789
socialist backed candidates around

310
00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:54,849
the country who have done

311
00:08:54,850 --> 00:08:56,749
exceedingly well in this year's

312
00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:58,089
politics compared to in previous

313
00:08:58,090 --> 00:08:59,549
years.

314
00:08:59,550 --> 00:09:01,229
This week in Michigan, Abdul

315
00:09:01,230 --> 00:09:03,209
El-Sayed, a progressive

316
00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:04,549
candidate backed by democratic

317
00:09:04,550 --> 00:09:06,449
socialist allies nearly won a

318
00:09:06,450 --> 00:09:08,289
primary there for a US Senate seat

319
00:09:08,290 --> 00:09:09,829
over an establishment backed

320
00:09:09,830 --> 00:09:11,299
Congresswoman.

321
00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:12,639
Anya, I guess everyone is taking the

322
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,279
exact same message from this one,

323
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,579
right? Everyone's on the same page

324
00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:17,139
about what it means for here.

325
00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:18,619
Yeah, you know, in politics,

326
00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:19,979
everyone just reads everything in

327
00:09:19,980 --> 00:09:21,759
the exact same way.

328
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,399
So of course, you know, again, this

329
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:24,779
this overarching question this year

330
00:09:24,780 --> 00:09:25,939
is like, what direction are

331
00:09:25,940 --> 00:09:26,799
Democrats going in?

332
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:27,739
Are they going in this more

333
00:09:27,740 --> 00:09:29,599
progressive lane or not?

334
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,119
And so I think for people who want

335
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,039
to see that DSA backing and

336
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,619
these kind of more progressive

337
00:09:34,620 --> 00:09:36,999
leanings are are

338
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:37,879
are viable in a way that they

339
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:39,659
haven't been before.

340
00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:41,499
Elsayed's victory is a signal of

341
00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:43,319
that. But David Crowley is saying

342
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,259
actually the fact that it was so

343
00:09:45,260 --> 00:09:47,409
close gives me hope for my campaign

344
00:09:47,410 --> 00:09:49,249
because he had all of

345
00:09:49,250 --> 00:09:50,809
this outside funding, he had all of

346
00:09:50,810 --> 00:09:52,689
these outside attention, and he

347
00:09:52,690 --> 00:09:54,089
still didn't run away with it.

348
00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:55,409
And so even though, again, we see

349
00:09:55,410 --> 00:09:56,949
all these polling numbers and things

350
00:09:56,950 --> 00:09:58,869
like this that indicate that Hong is

351
00:09:58,870 --> 00:10:00,129
currently running away with the

352
00:10:00,130 --> 00:10:01,829
primary, he's saying we actually

353
00:10:01,830 --> 00:10:03,209
might be really surprised on primary

354
00:10:03,210 --> 00:10:03,679
night.

355
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:05,059
Yeah, I mean, Rich, we haven't

356
00:10:05,060 --> 00:10:06,819
reported on this.

357
00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:08,259
And we typically don't talk about

358
00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:09,719
these internal polls.

359
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,599
But this one was interesting from

360
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,539
the Crowley campaign,

361
00:10:13,540 --> 00:10:15,559
where they said, hear

362
00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:17,779
me out. This is actually exactly

363
00:10:17,780 --> 00:10:20,199
what we want to hear for Wisconsin's

364
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,019
primary.

365
00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:23,139
And it sort of stepped through,

366
00:10:23,140 --> 00:10:25,299
I guess, all of the

367
00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:26,579
qualifications that you'd need to

368
00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:27,659
get there.

369
00:10:27,660 --> 00:10:29,639
But big picture, what

370
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:31,259
is Crowley's camp saying in terms of

371
00:10:31,260 --> 00:10:32,939
why Michigan could mean good things

372
00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:33,940
for us.

373
00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:37,379
Well, for one,

374
00:10:37,380 --> 00:10:39,219
they're saying this memo was saying

375
00:10:39,220 --> 00:10:41,279
that the primary

376
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,159
polling that's been done in

377
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,059
Wisconsin also just

378
00:10:45,060 --> 00:10:46,739
isn't the kind of polling you want

379
00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:48,499
to do to really know where

380
00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:49,699
candidates are at.

381
00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:51,819
They said it was top line and

382
00:10:51,820 --> 00:10:53,939
not looking at people who actually

383
00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:55,979
vote in these sorts of

384
00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:57,939
primaries. The other thing it was

385
00:10:57,940 --> 00:10:59,859
that they were

386
00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:01,540
saying that primary voters, you

387
00:11:01,541 --> 00:11:04,159
know, because of past numbers from

388
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:05,039
governor races.

389
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,559
Before.

390
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:08,959
And Senate races, et cetera,

391
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,539
show that in a primary, it's

392
00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:14,019
generally the oldest group,

393
00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:15,859
65 and up, that vote

394
00:11:15,860 --> 00:11:17,839
the most. And they're saying Crowley

395
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,279
is the only candidate talking

396
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,099
directly to those people right

397
00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:22,919
now. So as you mentioned, there were

398
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,739
a lot of qualifiers to get

399
00:11:24,740 --> 00:11:26,559
to the part of the memo from

400
00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,419
the Crowley camp that said,

401
00:11:28,420 --> 00:11:29,679
this is essentially a toss-up

402
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:30,879
between the two of them.

403
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,039
So it will be interesting,

404
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,619
because what I've also noticed is

405
00:11:35,620 --> 00:11:37,019
some pollers.

406
00:11:37,020 --> 00:11:39,499
Um, pollsters have said there's

407
00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:41,679
like this 10 to 13 point

408
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:43,279
error rate kind of built into

409
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,119
primary polling.

410
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,039
I mean, that's what we saw in

411
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:47,999
Michigan. El Sayed was, was

412
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,839
leading by 19 points

413
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,999
in one of these polls and the

414
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,379
race came out to be really

415
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:55,159
close.

416
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,099
He won, but not by

417
00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:58,139
those sorts of numbers.

418
00:11:58,140 --> 00:11:59,979
So what does that say for

419
00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:01,559
the polling that we've been relying

420
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:03,519
on in Wisconsin to kind

421
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:04,999
of get a sense of who is in the

422
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,919
front and who's,

423
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,459
you place?

424
00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:09,589
I don't know.

425
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:10,590
Yeah, Zach,

426
00:12:11,710 --> 00:12:12,969
help me walk through this.

427
00:12:12,970 --> 00:12:14,649
They had like basically four things

428
00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:16,149
you had to suppose.

429
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,649
One was that the primary electorate

430
00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:18,949
is not what the polls show.

431
00:12:18,950 --> 00:12:20,909
It's more like 2018, 2020.

432
00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:22,369
That those are older voters and that

433
00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:23,749
they're gonna go for David Crowley.

434
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:25,709
And that if you really boil

435
00:12:25,710 --> 00:12:27,109
it down to a two candidate race,

436
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:29,189
which is not, he does even better.

437
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:31,269
And when you inform them

438
00:12:31,270 --> 00:12:33,189
of David Crowely,

439
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:34,729
that his numbers get even better and

440
00:12:34,730 --> 00:12:35,679
put him over the top.

441
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:36,879
Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions

442
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,899
built into this best case scenario

443
00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:40,719
that even then only puts

444
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:42,939
it as a toss-up for David Crowley.

445
00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:44,699
But that is the odds that he's got

446
00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,379
against him in this scenario given

447
00:12:46,380 --> 00:12:48,119
all that we know about the campaigns

448
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,099
as they stand right now.

449
00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:51,159
And things that are different for

450
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,599
Michigan is Michigan didn't have

451
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,359
multiple candidates that had already

452
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,259
secured absentee votes and then

453
00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:57,559
dropped out of the race.

454
00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,559
We don't know how many votes have

455
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:01,199
already been cast for Sara Rodriguez

456
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:02,689
for Mandela Barnes.

457
00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:03,689
But I know there are some, because

458
00:13:03,690 --> 00:13:05,029
I've talked to voters who said, I

459
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:06,229
already voted for them.

460
00:13:06,230 --> 00:13:07,869
Those votes aren't coming back.

461
00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:09,369
They are gone. They will not impact

462
00:13:09,370 --> 00:13:11,169
the winner other than the margin of

463
00:13:11,170 --> 00:13:12,549
difference and the questions of,

464
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:13,769
hey, would that have made a

465
00:13:13,770 --> 00:13:15,329
difference if they had dropped out

466
00:13:15,330 --> 00:13:16,709
earlier or if those voters had

467
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:17,829
waited or if they could have spoiled

468
00:13:17,830 --> 00:13:19,529
those ballots and recast them?

469
00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:20,849
Those are all things we won't know.

470
00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:22,949
A lot of this is, in hindsight,

471
00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:24,649
it'll all make a lot more sense.

472
00:13:24,650 --> 00:13:26,649
Right now, it's a lot of projection,

473
00:13:26,650 --> 00:13:28,309
and it's crowly saying, hey don't

474
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:29,239
count me out.

475
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,039
Don't just front-run her away to

476
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,479
Fran because she's in the lead right

477
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,239
now. I have a legitimate chance, so

478
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,139
if you believe this talk about

479
00:13:36,140 --> 00:13:38,119
establishment and I'm the man,

480
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:38,909
then vote for me.

481
00:13:38,910 --> 00:13:40,729
All right As

482
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:42,589
our election becomes the next big

483
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:44,089
thing in US politics, we're seeing

484
00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:46,069
more national attention and

485
00:13:46,070 --> 00:13:47,709
scrutiny of Francesca Hong that

486
00:13:47,710 --> 00:13:48,989
includes scrutiny of her social

487
00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:51,249
media feed, old tweets,

488
00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:52,849
including one where she talked about

489
00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:54,069
Thanksgiving.

490
00:13:54,070 --> 00:13:55,849
In a since deleted tweet from 2020,

491
00:13:55,850 --> 00:13:57,129
she said, quote, cancel

492
00:13:57,130 --> 00:13:58,589
Thanksgiving, should have done this

493
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:00,809
in 1621.

494
00:14:00,810 --> 00:14:02,809
If it takes a worldwide pandemic for

495
00:14:02,810 --> 00:14:04,429
us to realize we should stop

496
00:14:04,430 --> 00:14:06,329
celebrating colonialism and the

497
00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:07,529
original super spreader event that

498
00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:09,529
killed indigenous folks and women,

499
00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:10,530
so be it.

500
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,119
An open question to the group

501
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,599
here. Is this tweet relevant

502
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,039
in 2026?

503
00:14:18,780 --> 00:14:20,159
It is, and that people are talking

504
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:20,979
about it.

505
00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:22,039
It's, it's, we're talking about

506
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,659
here. It's made national news,

507
00:14:23,660 --> 00:14:24,839
national headlines, and you know who

508
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,119
loves to hear about this.

509
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:27,299
It's the Republicans and Tom

510
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:28,419
Tiffany.

511
00:14:28,420 --> 00:14:30,339
So I think the context that can

512
00:14:30,340 --> 00:14:32,179
be added to this tweet is

513
00:14:32,180 --> 00:14:34,019
2020 is when Francesca Hong

514
00:14:34,020 --> 00:14:36,439
was first running for the assembly,

515
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,339
running in a very liberal district

516
00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:41,039
in Madison, in an open primary.

517
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,579
So everything she was saying,

518
00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:44,499
whether she believes it now or wants

519
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:45,719
to talk about it now.

520
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,599
She was saying to a liberal

521
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,779
primary audience in Madison

522
00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:51,719
in 2020,

523
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,179
coming out of the George Floyd

524
00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:55,099
protests, coming out COVID,

525
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:56,559
all the situations around that.

526
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,999
When you put it in context, her

527
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,619
tweets look like a candidate running

528
00:14:59,620 --> 00:15:01,799
for that office at that time.

529
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,059
The fact that she is a different

530
00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:04,339
candidate running for a different

531
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:05,539
office today.

532
00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:06,599
We've seen this from lots of

533
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:07,979
politicians who say, yeah, let's not

534
00:15:07,980 --> 00:15:09,359
talk about that. That was my race

535
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,359
for state Senate.

536
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,289
That was race for assembly.

537
00:15:12,290 --> 00:15:13,969
Not every politician will always

538
00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:15,829
love the stuff that's dug up from

539
00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:17,829
past votes or past campaigns,

540
00:15:17,830 --> 00:15:19,209
but she does have to deal with it.

541
00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:20,909
And so that is what her campaign is

542
00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:22,199
having to handle right now.

543
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,059
Yeah, I guess I'm going to think

544
00:15:23,060 --> 00:15:24,959
about politics as sort of a

545
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,179
the customer is always right

546
00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:27,759
business, the customer being the

547
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,579
voter, where even if you don't

548
00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:31,479
think they're right, you're in the

549
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,279
business as a candidate of winning

550
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,319
votes. And so if enough people

551
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:36,539
want to pay attention to a tweet

552
00:15:36,540 --> 00:15:38,499
about Thanksgiving, you got a

553
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:39,999
choice to make.

554
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,839
Rich, do you either kind of hope it

555
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,219
moves on to the next news cycle?

556
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:45,699
Or you say something about it?

557
00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:46,979
How has Francesca Hong been handling

558
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:47,980
it?

559
00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:50,719
Well, to me, it seems like

560
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:51,860
she's tried both.

561
00:15:53,740 --> 00:15:55,439
Initially, she was saying things

562
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,279
like, well, if Republicans want to

563
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,399
focus on that sort of stuff, we're

564
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,259
busy reaching out to voters

565
00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:03,339
and building up our support,

566
00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:04,399
et cetera, et cetera.

567
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,179
So she was kind of waving it off.

568
00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,919
But this week, we saw

569
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,159
Hong kind of backtrack

570
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,979
on that

571
00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:14,459
tweet in particular, and a whole

572
00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:16,909
other slew of tweets.

573
00:16:16,910 --> 00:16:18,769
Calling for, from the past,

574
00:16:18,770 --> 00:16:20,689
calling for abolishing police,

575
00:16:20,690 --> 00:16:22,769
abolishing ICE, abolishing the U.S.

576
00:16:22,770 --> 00:16:24,509
Senate, et cetera, et cetera.

577
00:16:24,510 --> 00:16:26,129
So, but with regard to the

578
00:16:26,130 --> 00:16:28,289
Thanksgiving tweet this week,

579
00:16:28,290 --> 00:16:30,510
she said to CNN,

580
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:33,369
she didn't really say whether or not

581
00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:35,469
she still supports, you know,

582
00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:36,329
canceling Thanksgiving.

583
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:38,409
She said it's a, that holiday brings

584
00:16:38,410 --> 00:16:40,450
a lot of pain to a lot communities,

585
00:16:41,770 --> 00:16:43,849
but she stopped short of giving

586
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:45,189
a definitive answer.

587
00:16:45,190 --> 00:16:46,729
And then on Wednesday, she was asked

588
00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:48,729
by Politico about

589
00:16:48,730 --> 00:16:50,569
that tweet, and they

590
00:16:50,570 --> 00:16:52,689
asked what her favorite holiday

591
00:16:52,690 --> 00:16:54,389
is, and she said Thanksgiving.

592
00:16:54,390 --> 00:16:55,809
She said, I don't want to cancel it.

593
00:16:55,810 --> 00:16:57,489
I love it.

594
00:16:57,490 --> 00:16:59,389
So that's obviously

595
00:16:59,390 --> 00:17:01,249
kind of backtracking,

596
00:17:01,250 --> 00:17:03,089
whether that's because she saw

597
00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:05,088
this as a liability

598
00:17:05,089 --> 00:17:06,989
or she's trying to put it to rest,

599
00:17:06,990 --> 00:17:08,669
I don't know, but that.

600
00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:10,629
And also, she said in

601
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:12,539
the televised debate not long

602
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:14,419
ago and in these media interviews at

603
00:17:14,420 --> 00:17:16,559
the national level, she said,

604
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,779
well, I as governor can't

605
00:17:18,780 --> 00:17:20,598
defund the police.

606
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,299
And, you know, she she essentially

607
00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:24,318
walked back those as well.

608
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:25,799
So it's been really interesting to

609
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,078
see not surprising for

610
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,309
a person in that position, but

611
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:31,310
Always notable.

612
00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:33,829
And you alluded to the office

613
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:35,069
that she's running for now.

614
00:17:35,070 --> 00:17:36,689
You get a different flavor of tweet

615
00:17:36,690 --> 00:17:38,669
from her, or I guess a post

616
00:17:38,670 --> 00:17:41,589
on X now than you did then.

617
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:43,089
She's made recent posts about

618
00:17:43,090 --> 00:17:45,069
Thanksgiving, this one from

619
00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:46,969
last year, where she

620
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:49,029
talked about supporting

621
00:17:49,030 --> 00:17:50,909
the Goodman Center in a

622
00:17:50,910 --> 00:17:51,910
fun drive.

623
00:17:52,740 --> 00:17:54,499
A crucial note there, she is dressed

624
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,539
up in one of those pictures as

625
00:17:56,540 --> 00:17:58,539
a turkey, so seems

626
00:17:58,540 --> 00:17:59,839
like fully embracing the

627
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:01,859
Thanksgiving holiday right now.

628
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:03,639
Anya, we cannot talk about social

629
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,439
media without mentioning Dirt

630
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,439
McGurk, social media

631
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,499
account run by David Crowley, Circa

632
00:18:09,500 --> 00:18:11,319
2010 has

633
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,159
his social media past come

634
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,209
back to haunt him.

635
00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:15,909
I mean, it was kind of the first

636
00:18:15,910 --> 00:18:17,729
opposition dump that

637
00:18:17,730 --> 00:18:19,329
came out after he re-entered the

638
00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:21,249
race. And so these are old tweets,

639
00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:22,749
as you mentioned, from about 15

640
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:24,869
years ago, very reflective

641
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:26,949
of a 24-year-old

642
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:28,349
sort of out in the world with this

643
00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:29,609
new technology, where you get to

644
00:18:29,610 --> 00:18:30,949
just announce every single thought

645
00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:32,589
that you're having as you're have

646
00:18:32,590 --> 00:18:34,029
it, if we all recall what Twitter

647
00:18:34,030 --> 00:18:35,789
was like in the year 2010.

648
00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:37,869
So that was a short news cycle.

649
00:18:37,870 --> 00:18:39,109
I don't think it was a fairly

650
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:40,769
significant one. He certainly said,

651
00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:41,579
you know.

652
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:43,539
I was a knucklehead, I don't stand

653
00:18:43,540 --> 00:18:45,079
by some of the more problematic

654
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,699
parts of those tweets.

655
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:48,119
And I do kind of, you know, to play

656
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:49,799
devil's advocate about how voters

657
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,639
feel about tweets, I have

658
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,779
this question of whether, you

659
00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:54,939
now, voters sort of see what they

660
00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:56,819
want to see. If you want

661
00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:58,459
to oppose David Crowley, you can

662
00:18:58,460 --> 00:18:59,859
point to these tweets as a reason

663
00:18:59,860 --> 00:19:01,679
why you don't trust him or like

664
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,419
him or approve of his character.

665
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:05,299
And likewise with Fran Hong.

666
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,139
If you do like them, then you can,

667
00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:08,779
it's very easy to kind of dismiss

668
00:19:08,780 --> 00:19:10,199
it. I saw some of Fran Hong

669
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,999
supporters pulling out other times

670
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,759
that she has knocked other holidays.

671
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:14,919
She's talked about how in

672
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,359
restaurants, she wants to kick out

673
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:17,799
everyone who shows up in Halloween

674
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:19,779
costumes, that she hates Valentine's

675
00:19:19,780 --> 00:19:21,179
Day, like working those shifts in

676
00:19:21,180 --> 00:19:23,119
restaurants. So making more of a

677
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:24,539
joke about it, that this is just

678
00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:25,839
learning more about their

679
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,299
personality and their character.

680
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,259
And I think, you know, we've spent

681
00:19:29,260 --> 00:19:31,399
10, 15 years now having

682
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,239
so much exposure to politicians

683
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,369
through social media in a way that

684
00:19:35,370 --> 00:19:36,589
They don't need to be mediated

685
00:19:36,590 --> 00:19:38,209
through kind of traditional media,

686
00:19:38,210 --> 00:19:39,329
but I think a lot of voters are kind

687
00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:41,449
of used to these more human

688
00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:42,869
sides. I mean, we also saw with

689
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:44,549
Graham Plattner, what I would

690
00:19:44,550 --> 00:19:46,329
describe as like really kind of

691
00:19:46,330 --> 00:19:49,489
horrible social media posts about

692
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:51,349
rape victims and other

693
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:53,409
things that voters really kind of

694
00:19:53,410 --> 00:19:55,129
excused because they wanted to see

695
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:56,629
the best in this politician that

696
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:58,329
they really admired and supported

697
00:19:58,330 --> 00:19:59,329
his policies.

698
00:19:59,330 --> 00:20:00,889
And so I think to a certain extent,

699
00:20:00,890 --> 00:20:02,289
we're going to see how important

700
00:20:02,290 --> 00:20:03,659
these kinds of things are.

701
00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:05,539
And I don't really know that

702
00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:07,579
it moves your average

703
00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:09,499
voter other than to sort of

704
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:10,899
put them in the camp that they might

705
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:12,349
have been going to either way.

706
00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:13,989
Yeah, in an era when the president

707
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:15,729
has been known to say some stuff on

708
00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:16,969
social media frequently. To govern

709
00:20:16,970 --> 00:20:18,309
through social media.

710
00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:19,689
These are sort of tamed by

711
00:20:19,690 --> 00:20:21,809
comparison in Wisconsin.

712
00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:22,869
That's all the time we have for

713
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:24,049
today. Thanks for joining us.

714
00:20:24,050 --> 00:20:25,709
This has been Inside Wisconsin

715
00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:26,569
Politics.

716
00:20:26,570 --> 00:20:27,589
Be sure to follow us on

717
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:29,969
PBSWisconsin.org, WPR.org

718
00:20:29,970 --> 00:20:31,929
YouTube, or wherever you

719
00:20:31,930 --> 00:20:32,930
get your podcasts.

720
00:20:38,790 --> 00:20:39,790
Two to three minutes.