The Democratic candidates for
governor make their closing pitches
to voters.
What are they saying?
And how's the race shaping up with
less than two weeks to go?
This is Inside Wisconsin Politics.
I'm Sean Johnson here with my
colleagues, Anya Van Wachtendonck,
Zach Schultz, and Rich Kramer in Eau
Claire. Hey everyone.
Hello.
So we're gonna get into how each of
these candidates is presenting
themselves here in just a moment,
but before we do that,
I wonder if each of you
would take a quick stab at
summing up this race as we
know it right now with less than two
weeks to go.
Zach, you first.
I would say remarkable consistency
at the top and the bottom,
and a lot of churn in the middle.
There we go.
Okay, Anya, how about you?
You know, I feel like we spent so
many months kind of waiting for
something to happen in this race and
then everything happened all at once
and now the deck has kind of
completely shuffled.
So Topsy Turvy might be the word I
would use.
Topsy-turvy, I like it.
How about you, Rich?
Locked in, question mark.
It looks like we've got the
candidates that will stay
in the race until the end of the
primary campaign
season. I'm not sure though.
All right, I'm gonna
answer the question too, I suppose.
I think at this point we have to
say the primary is kind of Francesca
Hong's to lose.
Still a lot of undecided voters and
they're still looking for somebody
to send them a message, but she has
consistently led in polling and
seemingly driven the
discussion in this campaign.
So let's look at what the candidates
are saying and how they're
presenting themselves in these
closing days and for help with this.
We're gonna use clips from their
debate this week.
Let's start with Madison
representative Francesca Hong.
She's a democratic socialist,
which is sort of defined this
campaign. She was asked about her
views. Let's give a listen to what
she had to say.
What democratic socialism is,
is a form of government that puts
working class people first, that
puts work first.
The policies that we have been
working on, permanent affordability,
has broad bipartisan support
in every corner of the state.
Anya, you profiled Francesca Hong
for Wisconsin Public Radio.
How is she presenting her brand
of politics to primary voters
and to potential critics out there?
I mean, so she's been running pretty
consistent with who she was in the
assembly, again, as a member of the
Democratic Socialist Caucus in
there. And that's been sort of the
name of the game for her campaign as
well. You know, all of the Democrats
are relatively aligned on sort of,
the big picture issues, and then she
tends to take it a little bit
further into, again that sort of
DSA lane.
But it's been interesting, as she's
kind of been consistently at the
front. It's not that the message has
changed so much, but she is starting
to kind of nuance some of those
views. So, you know, in the past,
for example, one of the really,
really big things that has dogged
her campaign is that during 2020,
she called to defund the police and
looking towards an eventual sort of
abolition of the police.
And all reporters have been asking
her about these comments for months
and months. And she's always given a
kind of more nuanced take on her
view of public safety.
But I think she's had to be really
kind of mindful about that as she
has become a clear frontrunner
because it.
Republicans are going to make an
attack ad, if not 20,
out of those types of comments.
Yeah, is she also kind of
pivoting toward the general when it
comes to tax policy, because she
was asked about that at the debate.
I mean, you have to kind of wonder,
right? So on the
trail again, she has, I think, some
of the most specific sort of policy
platforms of any of the candidates,
which has been kind of interesting.
She has these kind of
platforms put on her website.
And so in terms of like
raising taxes, it has looked like
she has wanted to greatly
increase taxes on the wealthiest
earners in Wisconsin.
At the debate, she hedged and
presented a much lower number.
But of course, tax the rich is a
major kind of attractive
talking point that she has had for
her base. People have really
responded to that, but perhaps
moderate voters or wealthier
voters or more Republican voters
would not.
Yeah, the ads might run the same
whether or not you're talking about
the bill she sponsored in the
assembly, which was around 17.7%
for the top income earners versus
8.65.
But that is a pretty stark
difference in terms of the amount of
dollars we're talking about, which
would be around $9 billion in
its first year of increased taxes.
Zach, we said last
week we were just kind of going to
wait for the facts to play out
in an event that happened that all
the candidates reacted to this
Madison police shooting.
I think it's fair to say a week
later, Francesca Hong's reaction
was the loudest and most
attention-getting.
She went to a Madison City street,
called it an execution.
What's she saying now?
Well she was asked directly at the
debate would she make those same
statements as governor and her
response was no she says
the governor has a larger megaphone
or speaker and so indicating
that she thought it wouldn't be
responsible as governor to make
those interesting that a lot of
people are said you should campaign
the way you would govern so i don't
know why she thought it'd be okay as
a candidate to make these statements
but not three months from now
if she becomes governor-elect
to make the same statements in the
same type of scenario This is
something that rolls right
into what we were just talking
about, that defund-the-police
background that comes with her
candidacy and others in the
Democratic Socialist Party,
and Republicans are absolutely
already using against her.
They're prepared at every step along
the way.
I think maybe what's surprising in
this campaign is none of the other
Democrats that are running against
her have tried to use that against
her if they were serious about
trying to make a move on her polling
position.
So let's move to one of those
Democrats, Lieutenant Governor
Mandela Barnes.
He was considered a front runner to
start this race because of his
statewide name recognition as
Lieutenant Governor and a candidate
for Senate in 2022.
He talked about that at Tuesday's
debate.
There's not a single person on this
stage who's united all shades of
blue of the Democratic party as I
have before.
Now that race in 2022,
it was the closest U S Senate race
in the state in over a hundred
years. It was the close challenge to
any incumbent across the entire
country, no incumbent law statewide.
Rich, you profiled Mandela Barnes
for WPR.
He's definitely presenting that
Senate run as a positive, but
I think, undeniably,
it's a vulnerability for him with
some voters.
What are your impressions with
how he's been navigating that and
how voters view it?
Well, since
I've been, since I talked
to him for the profile, he's
really hit on that, essentially
saying none of the other Democrats
in the race have faced the kind of
headwinds.
And, you know, a U.S.
Senate campaign where you're getting
attacked, tens of millions of
dollars, those are some real
headwind. So, that's been his
argument, but we've seen
that other Democrats aren't
really buying it, that.
There was an effort to keep him from
joining the race way
back when.
And we also saw a
great big snub.
The Governor Evers, who didn't make
any endorsements, chose not to
endorse Barnes.
So he's been
kind of making a pivot lately
saying, well, I'm not
the establishment candidate, I'm the
anti-establishment candidate.
So that's interesting in context
of what went down in 2022 where
you know, there were arguments from
the Republicans that the
establishment helped him get a clear
path to the Democratic nomination
there.
So, otherwise, his messaging has
been pretty similar.
He talks a lot about people
playing by the rules, working hard,
not being able to get by, whereas
the wealthy just keep on
prospering.
That continues in his current
campaign.
Do you see any difference between
the way he's presenting himself now
in terms of that messaging and
his platform compared to,
you know, when you talk to him on a
dairy farm in June?
Not really, not really, no.
He's really good
at staying on message and
we all
tend to remember
that because we hear the same thing
over and over again.
So he's been real disciplined.
But I wonder, Sean, what does that
look like compared to Mandel
Barnes from 2012?
Or 2012, excuse me.
Yeah, I mean, I think Mandela Barnes
is kind of in a catch 22
of his own making here.
Like he rose to prominence
as a Democrat and got the base
to love him.
And I don't use that word with
any exaggeration. He was very
popular at every Democratic event
where he was a guest.
And that was what made him a
candidate in 2022.
That's that's how he got there.
He is now a very on-message
candidate who is running kind of as
a safe front runner.
And the trick for him in this
campaign is that he's
got someone else kind of filling the
Mandela Barnes role to his left that
has energized the base.
And you know, you haven't seen him
waver from that front runner kind
of position or that general election
candidate.
But it seems like, you
know he may need to pull out some
stops here in the closing weeks.
Part of the reason for that is that
the field was reshuffled, as
you mentioned, Anya.
Milwaukee County Executive David
Crowley left the race on July 8th,
rejoined the race on July 18th with
Governor Tony Evers' endorsement.
His critics, mostly the Mandela
Barnes campaign lately, have called
him the establishment candidate.
David Crowely had already made
response for that at the debate.
I was never born into the
establishment. I was actually born
into struggle.
I grew up in the 5-3 tool, 6-zip
code, where I had to work extremely
hard for everything that I have.
And so I'm not here to protect the
establishment, I'm here to deliver
real results for Wisconsinites
all over our state.
Anya, I don't know if David Carly
gets back in this race if he didn't
have Governor Tony Evers sitting
there ready to endorse him.
How has that been kind of a double
edged sword for him?
Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know,
Governor Tony Evers is consistently
one of the most popular, if not the
most, popular politician in
the state. You know, grain of salt.
Nobody loves politicians.
But so that's a helpful
kind of endorsement to have.
But of course, that that
energy that is going around
Francesca Hong, it's not just I
think, because of her her
platform, but also because of this
idea of being sort of an outsider,
having a more unusual background.
And so, having the Evers endorsement
does make Crowley kind of
seem more mainstream or pull him
into that more traditional lane at a
time that I think some voters are
really looking for people who
want to kind of blow up some
of these institutions rather than
kind of going along with them.
And so it shows that he has the
backing of this really popular
politician, but it maybe also shows
that, he would be more
of the same.
Zach, if he is kind of
being put out here as the
alternative to Francesca Hong and
that is kind how he launched or
relaunched his campaign,
why did we not see him go
after her or attack her during the
debate?
He's still playing it safe.
Like every one of these politicians
understands when you go negative,
that harms you long term within the
party. He's still a young man.
Like this isn't his last chance at
statewide politics.
He will be the county executive
after this if he does not
win and become the nominee.
So there's still chance.
We've seen that throughout history
of Scott Walker in 2006,
gracefully bowing out of a primary
and then being rewarded with a clear
path to the nomination in 2010.
We've see it with other candidates
along the way where the.
It is an insider's game
in the sense that the people in
the party in power will remember who
played nice and who did not and
we've seen other candidates that
have not played nice in the past and
have not received any of the support
despite what on paper looks like
a strong resume in these kind of
races.
Rich, I know there's not a lot of
daylight between some of these
candidates when it comes to
the issues, but in this debate, I
wonder if David Crowley kind of
made a play for the most mainstream
Democrat, because they were all
asked, would you support that
budget surplus bill that Governor
Tony Evers negotiated with
Republicans?
And you know, what did David Crowely
say compared to the others?
Well, he said if it was passed on
a bipartisan basis, he would sign
it. And none of the other candidates
said that.
They all talked about the potential
deficit down the road that was
mentioned by the Legislative
Fiscal Bureau.
They also talked a lot about Robin
Voss, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos,
a Republican, saying, well, he's
not a negotiating in good faith
kind of guy.
So Crawley stood out on that
topic.
All right, let's turn to
Madison Senator Kel DeRoyze.
She's pretty consistently presenting
herself as the most experienced
candidate in the race.
Here's how she did it during the
debate.
That kind of experience is
absolutely essential, and voters
need to think about not just who
can beat Tom Tiffany, although that
is important, not just to deliver
a democratic legislature, although
that's vitally important, but who
can actually do the job on day one.
Zach, I feel like if you were going
to grade these candidates in terms
of how they sort of broke down
policy in the debate, or just in
general, Kelda might come out
on top.
She likes to talk about herself as a
details person.
Do details matter to voters?
In these moments?
No.
I think voters are going on
emotion a lot of the time.
Who is the candidate that speaks to
me? And they're often not
looking at the most experienced
policy wonk.
That's why we have, we've seen a lot
politicians in today's politics that
really have no experience and they
prove it once they get in office at
all different levels, federal and
state. But there's all sorts of
different things that happen,
including breaking news right at the
moment, Sean.
Yeah, we just heard in our ears that
Mandela Barnes has dropped out of
the race. So how about that right
in the middle of a show?
Kind of reshuffles the deck a bit
there. That churn in the
You know, we joke a lot
about something like that happening,
but hoo boy, I was not necessarily
expecting that.
Yeah.
So, in a race
that has been wild for the last
few weeks, another major
development here, right toward the
end.
So, um... Well, the question then,
Sean, becomes, does that help
Crowley?
If they were the two that had the
legitimate chance and they were
splitting that vote against Hong,
does this give Crowley an outside
chance? Even though we won't have
any more big polling numbers to come
out before the race, this
has to send some questions into
Francesca Hong's campaign and to
some others of like, will this
matter? Can enough people unite
behind Crowley as the non-socialist
in this race?
I think it has to help David
Crowley. They were pretty obviously
competing for second place at this
point, Mandela Barnes and David
Crowley, two Milwaukee candidates,
two black men in the race,
the two candidates who are not
Francesca Hong, who have like
meaningful votes behind them.
So you talked about leaving a race
and kind of like trying to leave a
good impression for the future.
This would be one way to do it if
you're Mandela Barns and maybe want
to do something like, I don't know,
run for Congress in the future
Well, it's the flip side of what
happened in 2022 was around this
same time where the rest of the
field left the race for him
He's returning the favor
understanding. I don't have a path
without going extremely negative
It's time for me to step aside And
yes He is one that understand this
will pay dividends down the road for
himself and how the party views
him
We should talk about one of the
other candidates remaining, Joel
Brennan, in the race.
And here's how Joel Brennen
presented himself at
the debate when he was asked if a
vote for him is
a wasted vote.
I don't think primary voters have
been paying much attention until the
last two weeks and all the upheaval
that you have seen.
This is what I find when I am going
out around the state is that, and
this has been verified by polls
that was done here by my alma mater
at Marquette because about
half the people at this point
haven't made a decision.
34% undecided in the
latest Marquette poll.
So it's getting smaller, the number
of undecide voters.
One thing that I learned about Joel
Brennan when I was editing a profile
of him written by our colleague
Corrine Hess is that he is kind of
the Tom Barrett candidate in this
race and more ways
than one. Tom Barret lives
in the same neighborhood
and also Joel Brennen.
Ran his campaign in 2002,
ran his campaigns for Congress and
the legislature, worked on his
campaigns for Congress and the
Legislature.
And he's presenting a kind of a
similar kind of politics here.
So as the candidates sort
of carve out their lanes,
if you feel sort of familiar with
Joel Brennan, it
could be why. They're very good
friends and speak very highly of one
another.
Just a closing question here.
And I feel like it's changed a lot
knowing that Mandela Barnes out of
the race, but what could change
this race that
would present somebody with a chance
to beat Francesca Hong?
Is Barnes dropping out enough to do
it on you?
I mean, the really big question for
me has been, is another person going
to drop out, especially with the
court decision this week that says
that people can't spoil their
ballots if their preferred
candidate, or if the candidate that
they've already voted for drops
out?
And so Barnes has answered that
question. I don't know whether any
of these major changes that could
still happen could have an effect on
Hong, because again, the question is
sort of, where do his voters then
split? But some proportion of them
are going to go to Hong, some
proportion them are gonna go to a
more mainstream Democrat.
So it kind of remains to be seen
what effect this has.
All right.
That's all the time we have for
today. Thanks for joining us.
This has been Inside Wisconsin
Politics.
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