1 00:00:19,390 --> 00:00:20,429 The Democratic candidates for 2 00:00:20,430 --> 00:00:21,949 governor make their closing pitches 3 00:00:21,950 --> 00:00:22,889 to voters. 4 00:00:22,890 --> 00:00:23,929 What are they saying? 5 00:00:23,930 --> 00:00:25,429 And how's the race shaping up with 6 00:00:25,430 --> 00:00:27,289 less than two weeks to go? 7 00:00:27,290 --> 00:00:29,490 This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,279 I'm Sean Johnson here with my 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,919 colleagues, Anya Van Wachtendonck, 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,799 Zach Schultz, and Rich Kramer in Eau 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:39,699 Claire. Hey everyone. 12 00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:40,839 Hello. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,739 So we're gonna get into how each of 14 00:00:42,740 --> 00:00:44,059 these candidates is presenting 15 00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:45,679 themselves here in just a moment, 16 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,599 but before we do that, 17 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,619 I wonder if each of you 18 00:00:49,620 --> 00:00:51,679 would take a quick stab at 19 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,519 summing up this race as we 20 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,479 know it right now with less than two 21 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,119 weeks to go. 22 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,279 Zach, you first. 23 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,339 I would say remarkable consistency 24 00:01:00,340 --> 00:01:02,479 at the top and the bottom, 25 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,219 and a lot of churn in the middle. 26 00:01:04,220 --> 00:01:05,159 There we go. 27 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,179 Okay, Anya, how about you? 28 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:07,319 You know, I feel like we spent so 29 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:08,739 many months kind of waiting for 30 00:01:08,740 --> 00:01:10,659 something to happen in this race and 31 00:01:10,660 --> 00:01:12,619 then everything happened all at once 32 00:01:12,620 --> 00:01:13,979 and now the deck has kind of 33 00:01:13,980 --> 00:01:15,119 completely shuffled. 34 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,799 So Topsy Turvy might be the word I 35 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:16,900 would use. 36 00:01:16,901 --> 00:01:18,079 Topsy-turvy, I like it. 37 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,080 How about you, Rich? 38 00:01:20,980 --> 00:01:22,439 Locked in, question mark. 39 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:23,479 It looks like we've got the 40 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,419 candidates that will stay 41 00:01:25,420 --> 00:01:27,559 in the race until the end of the 42 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,639 primary campaign 43 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:30,899 season. I'm not sure though. 44 00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:32,979 All right, I'm gonna 45 00:01:32,980 --> 00:01:35,139 answer the question too, I suppose. 46 00:01:35,140 --> 00:01:36,959 I think at this point we have to 47 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,039 say the primary is kind of Francesca 48 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,439 Hong's to lose. 49 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,319 Still a lot of undecided voters and 50 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,019 they're still looking for somebody 51 00:01:44,020 --> 00:01:46,019 to send them a message, but she has 52 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:47,459 consistently led in polling and 53 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:49,759 seemingly driven the 54 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,839 discussion in this campaign. 55 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,059 So let's look at what the candidates 56 00:01:54,060 --> 00:01:55,399 are saying and how they're 57 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,519 presenting themselves in these 58 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,809 closing days and for help with this. 59 00:01:58,810 --> 00:02:00,089 We're gonna use clips from their 60 00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:01,029 debate this week. 61 00:02:01,030 --> 00:02:02,389 Let's start with Madison 62 00:02:02,390 --> 00:02:03,889 representative Francesca Hong. 63 00:02:03,890 --> 00:02:05,749 She's a democratic socialist, 64 00:02:05,750 --> 00:02:06,729 which is sort of defined this 65 00:02:06,730 --> 00:02:08,269 campaign. She was asked about her 66 00:02:08,270 --> 00:02:09,749 views. Let's give a listen to what 67 00:02:09,750 --> 00:02:10,750 she had to say. 68 00:02:11,670 --> 00:02:14,169 What democratic socialism is, 69 00:02:14,170 --> 00:02:15,649 is a form of government that puts 70 00:02:15,650 --> 00:02:17,309 working class people first, that 71 00:02:17,310 --> 00:02:19,029 puts work first. 72 00:02:19,030 --> 00:02:20,529 The policies that we have been 73 00:02:20,530 --> 00:02:23,149 working on, permanent affordability, 74 00:02:23,150 --> 00:02:25,089 has broad bipartisan support 75 00:02:25,090 --> 00:02:26,610 in every corner of the state. 76 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,619 Anya, you profiled Francesca Hong 77 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:31,319 for Wisconsin Public Radio. 78 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,359 How is she presenting her brand 79 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,879 of politics to primary voters 80 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,899 and to potential critics out there? 81 00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:39,559 I mean, so she's been running pretty 82 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,119 consistent with who she was in the 83 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,059 assembly, again, as a member of the 84 00:02:43,060 --> 00:02:44,519 Democratic Socialist Caucus in 85 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,439 there. And that's been sort of the 86 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,099 name of the game for her campaign as 87 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:49,959 well. You know, all of the Democrats 88 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,979 are relatively aligned on sort of, 89 00:02:51,980 --> 00:02:53,239 the big picture issues, and then she 90 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,539 tends to take it a little bit 91 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:56,359 further into, again that sort of 92 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,519 DSA lane. 93 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,219 But it's been interesting, as she's 94 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:00,959 kind of been consistently at the 95 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,809 front. It's not that the message has 96 00:03:02,810 --> 00:03:04,289 changed so much, but she is starting 97 00:03:04,290 --> 00:03:05,949 to kind of nuance some of those 98 00:03:05,950 --> 00:03:07,529 views. So, you know, in the past, 99 00:03:07,530 --> 00:03:08,929 for example, one of the really, 100 00:03:08,930 --> 00:03:10,129 really big things that has dogged 101 00:03:10,130 --> 00:03:12,029 her campaign is that during 2020, 102 00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:14,249 she called to defund the police and 103 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:16,009 looking towards an eventual sort of 104 00:03:16,010 --> 00:03:17,689 abolition of the police. 105 00:03:17,690 --> 00:03:19,589 And all reporters have been asking 106 00:03:19,590 --> 00:03:20,909 her about these comments for months 107 00:03:20,910 --> 00:03:22,669 and months. And she's always given a 108 00:03:22,670 --> 00:03:24,409 kind of more nuanced take on her 109 00:03:24,410 --> 00:03:25,429 view of public safety. 110 00:03:25,430 --> 00:03:27,029 But I think she's had to be really 111 00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:28,949 kind of mindful about that as she 112 00:03:28,950 --> 00:03:30,349 has become a clear frontrunner 113 00:03:30,350 --> 00:03:31,739 because it. 114 00:03:31,740 --> 00:03:33,099 Republicans are going to make an 115 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:35,519 attack ad, if not 20, 116 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:36,819 out of those types of comments. 117 00:03:36,820 --> 00:03:38,659 Yeah, is she also kind of 118 00:03:38,660 --> 00:03:39,899 pivoting toward the general when it 119 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:41,739 comes to tax policy, because she 120 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:43,149 was asked about that at the debate. 121 00:03:43,150 --> 00:03:44,589 I mean, you have to kind of wonder, 122 00:03:44,590 --> 00:03:46,729 right? So on the 123 00:03:46,730 --> 00:03:48,589 trail again, she has, I think, some 124 00:03:48,590 --> 00:03:50,649 of the most specific sort of policy 125 00:03:50,650 --> 00:03:52,669 platforms of any of the candidates, 126 00:03:52,670 --> 00:03:53,849 which has been kind of interesting. 127 00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:56,029 She has these kind of 128 00:03:56,030 --> 00:03:57,089 platforms put on her website. 129 00:03:57,090 --> 00:03:59,029 And so in terms of like 130 00:03:59,030 --> 00:04:01,049 raising taxes, it has looked like 131 00:04:01,050 --> 00:04:02,909 she has wanted to greatly 132 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:04,689 increase taxes on the wealthiest 133 00:04:04,690 --> 00:04:05,629 earners in Wisconsin. 134 00:04:05,630 --> 00:04:07,689 At the debate, she hedged and 135 00:04:07,690 --> 00:04:09,649 presented a much lower number. 136 00:04:09,650 --> 00:04:11,729 But of course, tax the rich is a 137 00:04:11,730 --> 00:04:13,769 major kind of attractive 138 00:04:13,770 --> 00:04:15,089 talking point that she has had for 139 00:04:15,090 --> 00:04:16,389 her base. People have really 140 00:04:16,390 --> 00:04:18,369 responded to that, but perhaps 141 00:04:18,370 --> 00:04:20,328 moderate voters or wealthier 142 00:04:20,329 --> 00:04:21,809 voters or more Republican voters 143 00:04:21,810 --> 00:04:22,569 would not. 144 00:04:22,570 --> 00:04:24,229 Yeah, the ads might run the same 145 00:04:24,230 --> 00:04:25,489 whether or not you're talking about 146 00:04:25,490 --> 00:04:26,689 the bill she sponsored in the 147 00:04:26,690 --> 00:04:29,349 assembly, which was around 17.7% 148 00:04:29,350 --> 00:04:30,989 for the top income earners versus 149 00:04:30,990 --> 00:04:32,509 8.65. 150 00:04:32,510 --> 00:04:34,389 But that is a pretty stark 151 00:04:34,390 --> 00:04:35,749 difference in terms of the amount of 152 00:04:35,750 --> 00:04:36,789 dollars we're talking about, which 153 00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:38,789 would be around $9 billion in 154 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:40,829 its first year of increased taxes. 155 00:04:42,030 --> 00:04:43,909 Zach, we said last 156 00:04:43,910 --> 00:04:45,309 week we were just kind of going to 157 00:04:45,310 --> 00:04:47,469 wait for the facts to play out 158 00:04:47,470 --> 00:04:49,309 in an event that happened that all 159 00:04:49,310 --> 00:04:50,489 the candidates reacted to this 160 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:52,699 Madison police shooting. 161 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:54,359 I think it's fair to say a week 162 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,179 later, Francesca Hong's reaction 163 00:04:56,180 --> 00:04:58,139 was the loudest and most 164 00:04:58,140 --> 00:04:58,999 attention-getting. 165 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,659 She went to a Madison City street, 166 00:05:00,660 --> 00:05:02,919 called it an execution. 167 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,299 What's she saying now? 168 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:05,839 Well she was asked directly at the 169 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:07,379 debate would she make those same 170 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:09,859 statements as governor and her 171 00:05:09,860 --> 00:05:11,699 response was no she says 172 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:13,959 the governor has a larger megaphone 173 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,239 or speaker and so indicating 174 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,419 that she thought it wouldn't be 175 00:05:17,420 --> 00:05:18,719 responsible as governor to make 176 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,519 those interesting that a lot of 177 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,739 people are said you should campaign 178 00:05:21,740 --> 00:05:23,619 the way you would govern so i don't 179 00:05:23,620 --> 00:05:24,999 know why she thought it'd be okay as 180 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,419 a candidate to make these statements 181 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:28,259 but not three months from now 182 00:05:28,260 --> 00:05:30,239 if she becomes governor-elect 183 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:31,739 to make the same statements in the 184 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:33,799 same type of scenario This is 185 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,659 something that rolls right 186 00:05:35,660 --> 00:05:36,459 into what we were just talking 187 00:05:36,460 --> 00:05:38,659 about, that defund-the-police 188 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:39,979 background that comes with her 189 00:05:39,980 --> 00:05:41,159 candidacy and others in the 190 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,099 Democratic Socialist Party, 191 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:44,479 and Republicans are absolutely 192 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,619 already using against her. 193 00:05:45,620 --> 00:05:47,059 They're prepared at every step along 194 00:05:47,060 --> 00:05:47,959 the way. 195 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,179 I think maybe what's surprising in 196 00:05:49,180 --> 00:05:50,359 this campaign is none of the other 197 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,599 Democrats that are running against 198 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,179 her have tried to use that against 199 00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:54,919 her if they were serious about 200 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,639 trying to make a move on her polling 201 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:57,389 position. 202 00:05:57,390 --> 00:05:58,909 So let's move to one of those 203 00:05:58,910 --> 00:06:00,009 Democrats, Lieutenant Governor 204 00:06:00,010 --> 00:06:01,889 Mandela Barnes. 205 00:06:01,890 --> 00:06:04,029 He was considered a front runner to 206 00:06:04,030 --> 00:06:05,749 start this race because of his 207 00:06:05,750 --> 00:06:07,129 statewide name recognition as 208 00:06:07,130 --> 00:06:08,789 Lieutenant Governor and a candidate 209 00:06:08,790 --> 00:06:10,629 for Senate in 2022. 210 00:06:10,630 --> 00:06:12,409 He talked about that at Tuesday's 211 00:06:12,410 --> 00:06:13,410 debate. 212 00:06:13,850 --> 00:06:15,189 There's not a single person on this 213 00:06:15,190 --> 00:06:17,149 stage who's united all shades of 214 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:18,869 blue of the Democratic party as I 215 00:06:18,870 --> 00:06:19,729 have before. 216 00:06:19,730 --> 00:06:21,749 Now that race in 2022, 217 00:06:21,750 --> 00:06:23,409 it was the closest U S Senate race 218 00:06:23,410 --> 00:06:24,729 in the state in over a hundred 219 00:06:24,730 --> 00:06:26,649 years. It was the close challenge to 220 00:06:26,650 --> 00:06:28,149 any incumbent across the entire 221 00:06:28,150 --> 00:06:29,690 country, no incumbent law statewide. 222 00:06:30,970 --> 00:06:32,929 Rich, you profiled Mandela Barnes 223 00:06:32,930 --> 00:06:34,589 for WPR. 224 00:06:34,590 --> 00:06:35,789 He's definitely presenting that 225 00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:38,109 Senate run as a positive, but 226 00:06:38,110 --> 00:06:40,069 I think, undeniably, 227 00:06:40,070 --> 00:06:41,729 it's a vulnerability for him with 228 00:06:41,730 --> 00:06:42,730 some voters. 229 00:06:43,750 --> 00:06:45,849 What are your impressions with 230 00:06:45,850 --> 00:06:47,829 how he's been navigating that and 231 00:06:47,830 --> 00:06:48,830 how voters view it? 232 00:06:50,740 --> 00:06:52,639 Well, since 233 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,559 I've been, since I talked 234 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,599 to him for the profile, he's 235 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,619 really hit on that, essentially 236 00:06:58,620 --> 00:07:00,539 saying none of the other Democrats 237 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:02,159 in the race have faced the kind of 238 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,239 headwinds. 239 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,939 And, you know, a U.S. 240 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:07,799 Senate campaign where you're getting 241 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,239 attacked, tens of millions of 242 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,219 dollars, those are some real 243 00:07:11,220 --> 00:07:12,759 headwind. So, that's been his 244 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,279 argument, but we've seen 245 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,459 that other Democrats aren't 246 00:07:17,460 --> 00:07:19,199 really buying it, that. 247 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,599 There was an effort to keep him from 248 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,459 joining the race way 249 00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:24,460 back when. 250 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,239 And we also saw a 251 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:28,539 great big snub. 252 00:07:28,540 --> 00:07:30,319 The Governor Evers, who didn't make 253 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:31,999 any endorsements, chose not to 254 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:32,879 endorse Barnes. 255 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,639 So he's been 256 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,539 kind of making a pivot lately 257 00:07:37,540 --> 00:07:40,219 saying, well, I'm not 258 00:07:40,220 --> 00:07:42,179 the establishment candidate, I'm the 259 00:07:42,180 --> 00:07:43,540 anti-establishment candidate. 260 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,639 So that's interesting in context 261 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,649 of what went down in 2022 where 262 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:51,249 you know, there were arguments from 263 00:07:51,250 --> 00:07:52,529 the Republicans that the 264 00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:54,229 establishment helped him get a clear 265 00:07:54,230 --> 00:07:56,249 path to the Democratic nomination 266 00:07:56,250 --> 00:07:57,189 there. 267 00:07:57,190 --> 00:07:59,149 So, otherwise, his messaging has 268 00:07:59,150 --> 00:08:00,949 been pretty similar. 269 00:08:00,950 --> 00:08:03,189 He talks a lot about people 270 00:08:03,190 --> 00:08:05,309 playing by the rules, working hard, 271 00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:07,469 not being able to get by, whereas 272 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:09,309 the wealthy just keep on 273 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:10,109 prospering. 274 00:08:10,110 --> 00:08:11,769 That continues in his current 275 00:08:11,770 --> 00:08:12,209 campaign. 276 00:08:12,210 --> 00:08:14,429 Do you see any difference between 277 00:08:14,430 --> 00:08:16,149 the way he's presenting himself now 278 00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:18,109 in terms of that messaging and 279 00:08:18,110 --> 00:08:20,069 his platform compared to, 280 00:08:20,070 --> 00:08:21,469 you know, when you talk to him on a 281 00:08:21,470 --> 00:08:22,470 dairy farm in June? 282 00:08:24,390 --> 00:08:26,289 Not really, not really, no. 283 00:08:26,290 --> 00:08:28,189 He's really good 284 00:08:28,190 --> 00:08:30,049 at staying on message and 285 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:31,929 we all 286 00:08:31,930 --> 00:08:34,029 tend to remember 287 00:08:34,030 --> 00:08:35,389 that because we hear the same thing 288 00:08:35,390 --> 00:08:36,209 over and over again. 289 00:08:36,210 --> 00:08:37,428 So he's been real disciplined. 290 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:40,769 But I wonder, Sean, what does that 291 00:08:40,770 --> 00:08:42,788 look like compared to Mandel 292 00:08:42,789 --> 00:08:44,289 Barnes from 2012? 293 00:08:44,290 --> 00:08:45,619 Or 2012, excuse me. 294 00:08:45,620 --> 00:08:47,419 Yeah, I mean, I think Mandela Barnes 295 00:08:47,420 --> 00:08:49,559 is kind of in a catch 22 296 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,159 of his own making here. 297 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,419 Like he rose to prominence 298 00:08:53,420 --> 00:08:55,319 as a Democrat and got the base 299 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:56,319 to love him. 300 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,139 And I don't use that word with 301 00:08:58,140 --> 00:08:59,499 any exaggeration. He was very 302 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:01,219 popular at every Democratic event 303 00:09:01,220 --> 00:09:03,599 where he was a guest. 304 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,459 And that was what made him a 305 00:09:05,460 --> 00:09:06,639 candidate in 2022. 306 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,569 That's that's how he got there. 307 00:09:08,570 --> 00:09:10,589 He is now a very on-message 308 00:09:10,590 --> 00:09:12,289 candidate who is running kind of as 309 00:09:12,290 --> 00:09:14,089 a safe front runner. 310 00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:15,449 And the trick for him in this 311 00:09:15,450 --> 00:09:17,309 campaign is that he's 312 00:09:17,310 --> 00:09:18,449 got someone else kind of filling the 313 00:09:18,450 --> 00:09:20,309 Mandela Barnes role to his left that 314 00:09:20,310 --> 00:09:21,670 has energized the base. 315 00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:24,089 And you know, you haven't seen him 316 00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:25,969 waver from that front runner kind 317 00:09:25,970 --> 00:09:27,649 of position or that general election 318 00:09:27,650 --> 00:09:28,589 candidate. 319 00:09:28,590 --> 00:09:30,589 But it seems like, you 320 00:09:30,590 --> 00:09:32,169 know he may need to pull out some 321 00:09:32,170 --> 00:09:33,329 stops here in the closing weeks. 322 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,259 Part of the reason for that is that 323 00:09:36,260 --> 00:09:38,079 the field was reshuffled, as 324 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,699 you mentioned, Anya. 325 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:41,399 Milwaukee County Executive David 326 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,639 Crowley left the race on July 8th, 327 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,259 rejoined the race on July 18th with 328 00:09:45,260 --> 00:09:47,099 Governor Tony Evers' endorsement. 329 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:48,759 His critics, mostly the Mandela 330 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,279 Barnes campaign lately, have called 331 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,639 him the establishment candidate. 332 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,719 David Crowely had already made 333 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,200 response for that at the debate. 334 00:09:56,390 --> 00:09:57,789 I was never born into the 335 00:09:57,790 --> 00:09:58,909 establishment. I was actually born 336 00:09:58,910 --> 00:09:59,929 into struggle. 337 00:09:59,930 --> 00:10:01,649 I grew up in the 5-3 tool, 6-zip 338 00:10:01,650 --> 00:10:03,289 code, where I had to work extremely 339 00:10:03,290 --> 00:10:04,689 hard for everything that I have. 340 00:10:04,690 --> 00:10:06,509 And so I'm not here to protect the 341 00:10:06,510 --> 00:10:08,269 establishment, I'm here to deliver 342 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:10,489 real results for Wisconsinites 343 00:10:10,490 --> 00:10:11,490 all over our state. 344 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,199 Anya, I don't know if David Carly 345 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,239 gets back in this race if he didn't 346 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,099 have Governor Tony Evers sitting 347 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:20,119 there ready to endorse him. 348 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:21,599 How has that been kind of a double 349 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:22,469 edged sword for him? 350 00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:24,289 Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, 351 00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:25,709 Governor Tony Evers is consistently 352 00:10:25,710 --> 00:10:27,589 one of the most popular, if not the 353 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:29,729 most, popular politician in 354 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:31,569 the state. You know, grain of salt. 355 00:10:31,570 --> 00:10:33,269 Nobody loves politicians. 356 00:10:33,270 --> 00:10:35,129 But so that's a helpful 357 00:10:35,130 --> 00:10:36,989 kind of endorsement to have. 358 00:10:36,990 --> 00:10:39,069 But of course, that that 359 00:10:39,070 --> 00:10:40,789 energy that is going around 360 00:10:40,790 --> 00:10:42,409 Francesca Hong, it's not just I 361 00:10:42,410 --> 00:10:44,249 think, because of her her 362 00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:46,009 platform, but also because of this 363 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:48,009 idea of being sort of an outsider, 364 00:10:48,010 --> 00:10:49,739 having a more unusual background. 365 00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:51,959 And so, having the Evers endorsement 366 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:53,979 does make Crowley kind of 367 00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:55,539 seem more mainstream or pull him 368 00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:57,359 into that more traditional lane at a 369 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:58,559 time that I think some voters are 370 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:00,559 really looking for people who 371 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:02,399 want to kind of blow up some 372 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:03,979 of these institutions rather than 373 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:05,879 kind of going along with them. 374 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,639 And so it shows that he has the 375 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,739 backing of this really popular 376 00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:10,479 politician, but it maybe also shows 377 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,359 that, he would be more 378 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:13,579 of the same. 379 00:11:13,580 --> 00:11:15,559 Zach, if he is kind of 380 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:17,759 being put out here as the 381 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,699 alternative to Francesca Hong and 382 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:21,379 that is kind how he launched or 383 00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:23,379 relaunched his campaign, 384 00:11:23,380 --> 00:11:25,279 why did we not see him go 385 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,019 after her or attack her during the 386 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:28,020 debate? 387 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:29,939 He's still playing it safe. 388 00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:31,099 Like every one of these politicians 389 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:32,699 understands when you go negative, 390 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:34,639 that harms you long term within the 391 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,479 party. He's still a young man. 392 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,419 Like this isn't his last chance at 393 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:39,759 statewide politics. 394 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,219 He will be the county executive 395 00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:43,119 after this if he does not 396 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,999 win and become the nominee. 397 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,119 So there's still chance. 398 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,459 We've seen that throughout history 399 00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:49,919 of Scott Walker in 2006, 400 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,279 gracefully bowing out of a primary 401 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:52,619 and then being rewarded with a clear 402 00:11:52,620 --> 00:11:54,759 path to the nomination in 2010. 403 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:55,839 We've see it with other candidates 404 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,619 along the way where the. 405 00:11:57,620 --> 00:11:59,499 It is an insider's game 406 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:01,479 in the sense that the people in 407 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,399 the party in power will remember who 408 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,939 played nice and who did not and 409 00:12:04,940 --> 00:12:06,779 we've seen other candidates that 410 00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:08,359 have not played nice in the past and 411 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,519 have not received any of the support 412 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,399 despite what on paper looks like 413 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,979 a strong resume in these kind of 414 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:15,059 races. 415 00:12:15,060 --> 00:12:16,719 Rich, I know there's not a lot of 416 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:17,879 daylight between some of these 417 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,719 candidates when it comes to 418 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,519 the issues, but in this debate, I 419 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,339 wonder if David Crowley kind of 420 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:25,399 made a play for the most mainstream 421 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,239 Democrat, because they were all 422 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,779 asked, would you support that 423 00:12:30,780 --> 00:12:32,299 budget surplus bill that Governor 424 00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:33,519 Tony Evers negotiated with 425 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Republicans? 426 00:12:35,380 --> 00:12:36,799 And you know, what did David Crowely 427 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:37,800 say compared to the others? 428 00:12:39,790 --> 00:12:41,949 Well, he said if it was passed on 429 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:43,689 a bipartisan basis, he would sign 430 00:12:43,690 --> 00:12:45,849 it. And none of the other candidates 431 00:12:45,850 --> 00:12:46,729 said that. 432 00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:48,889 They all talked about the potential 433 00:12:48,890 --> 00:12:51,469 deficit down the road that was 434 00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:53,309 mentioned by the Legislative 435 00:12:53,310 --> 00:12:54,269 Fiscal Bureau. 436 00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:56,429 They also talked a lot about Robin 437 00:12:56,430 --> 00:12:58,329 Voss, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos, 438 00:12:58,330 --> 00:13:01,229 a Republican, saying, well, he's 439 00:13:01,230 --> 00:13:03,229 not a negotiating in good faith 440 00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:04,769 kind of guy. 441 00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:06,629 So Crawley stood out on that 442 00:13:06,630 --> 00:13:07,630 topic. 443 00:13:07,980 --> 00:13:09,859 All right, let's turn to 444 00:13:09,860 --> 00:13:11,559 Madison Senator Kel DeRoyze. 445 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:12,939 She's pretty consistently presenting 446 00:13:12,940 --> 00:13:14,739 herself as the most experienced 447 00:13:14,740 --> 00:13:16,239 candidate in the race. 448 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,419 Here's how she did it during the 449 00:13:17,420 --> 00:13:18,420 debate. 450 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,819 That kind of experience is 451 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:22,499 absolutely essential, and voters 452 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:24,419 need to think about not just who 453 00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:25,839 can beat Tom Tiffany, although that 454 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,859 is important, not just to deliver 455 00:13:27,860 --> 00:13:29,339 a democratic legislature, although 456 00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:31,239 that's vitally important, but who 457 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,220 can actually do the job on day one. 458 00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:35,719 Zach, I feel like if you were going 459 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:36,999 to grade these candidates in terms 460 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,559 of how they sort of broke down 461 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,219 policy in the debate, or just in 462 00:13:40,220 --> 00:13:42,079 general, Kelda might come out 463 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,159 on top. 464 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,879 She likes to talk about herself as a 465 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:45,940 details person. 466 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:48,949 Do details matter to voters? 467 00:13:48,950 --> 00:13:50,089 In these moments? 468 00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:50,929 No. 469 00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:52,889 I think voters are going on 470 00:13:52,890 --> 00:13:54,589 emotion a lot of the time. 471 00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:56,469 Who is the candidate that speaks to 472 00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:58,429 me? And they're often not 473 00:13:58,430 --> 00:13:59,649 looking at the most experienced 474 00:13:59,650 --> 00:14:00,469 policy wonk. 475 00:14:00,470 --> 00:14:02,229 That's why we have, we've seen a lot 476 00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:04,009 politicians in today's politics that 477 00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:05,409 really have no experience and they 478 00:14:05,410 --> 00:14:06,789 prove it once they get in office at 479 00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:08,389 all different levels, federal and 480 00:14:08,390 --> 00:14:10,129 state. But there's all sorts of 481 00:14:10,130 --> 00:14:11,169 different things that happen, 482 00:14:11,170 --> 00:14:12,389 including breaking news right at the 483 00:14:12,390 --> 00:14:13,529 moment, Sean. 484 00:14:13,530 --> 00:14:15,429 Yeah, we just heard in our ears that 485 00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:17,209 Mandela Barnes has dropped out of 486 00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:19,149 the race. So how about that right 487 00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:20,689 in the middle of a show? 488 00:14:20,690 --> 00:14:22,169 Kind of reshuffles the deck a bit 489 00:14:22,170 --> 00:14:23,789 there. That churn in the 490 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:25,609 You know, we joke a lot 491 00:14:25,610 --> 00:14:27,509 about something like that happening, 492 00:14:27,510 --> 00:14:28,929 but hoo boy, I was not necessarily 493 00:14:28,930 --> 00:14:29,839 expecting that. 494 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:30,819 Yeah. 495 00:14:30,820 --> 00:14:32,679 So, in a race 496 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,539 that has been wild for the last 497 00:14:34,540 --> 00:14:36,399 few weeks, another major 498 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,179 development here, right toward the 499 00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:39,069 end. 500 00:14:39,070 --> 00:14:40,629 So, um... Well, the question then, 501 00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:42,129 Sean, becomes, does that help 502 00:14:42,130 --> 00:14:43,009 Crowley? 503 00:14:43,010 --> 00:14:44,869 If they were the two that had the 504 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:46,009 legitimate chance and they were 505 00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:48,329 splitting that vote against Hong, 506 00:14:48,330 --> 00:14:50,249 does this give Crowley an outside 507 00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:51,749 chance? Even though we won't have 508 00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:53,509 any more big polling numbers to come 509 00:14:53,510 --> 00:14:55,509 out before the race, this 510 00:14:55,510 --> 00:14:57,469 has to send some questions into 511 00:14:57,470 --> 00:14:59,369 Francesca Hong's campaign and to 512 00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:01,009 some others of like, will this 513 00:15:01,010 --> 00:15:02,409 matter? Can enough people unite 514 00:15:02,410 --> 00:15:04,989 behind Crowley as the non-socialist 515 00:15:04,990 --> 00:15:05,529 in this race? 516 00:15:05,530 --> 00:15:07,529 I think it has to help David 517 00:15:07,530 --> 00:15:09,469 Crowley. They were pretty obviously 518 00:15:09,470 --> 00:15:11,189 competing for second place at this 519 00:15:11,190 --> 00:15:12,769 point, Mandela Barnes and David 520 00:15:12,770 --> 00:15:15,409 Crowley, two Milwaukee candidates, 521 00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:17,569 two black men in the race, 522 00:15:17,570 --> 00:15:19,489 the two candidates who are not 523 00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:21,249 Francesca Hong, who have like 524 00:15:21,250 --> 00:15:23,109 meaningful votes behind them. 525 00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:24,969 So you talked about leaving a race 526 00:15:24,970 --> 00:15:26,489 and kind of like trying to leave a 527 00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:27,709 good impression for the future. 528 00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:29,989 This would be one way to do it if 529 00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:31,329 you're Mandela Barns and maybe want 530 00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:32,509 to do something like, I don't know, 531 00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:33,719 run for Congress in the future 532 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,339 Well, it's the flip side of what 533 00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:37,279 happened in 2022 was around this 534 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,419 same time where the rest of the 535 00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:40,259 field left the race for him 536 00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:41,779 He's returning the favor 537 00:15:41,780 --> 00:15:43,439 understanding. I don't have a path 538 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:44,959 without going extremely negative 539 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,919 It's time for me to step aside And 540 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,039 yes He is one that understand this 541 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,979 will pay dividends down the road for 542 00:15:50,980 --> 00:15:52,819 himself and how the party views 543 00:15:52,820 --> 00:15:53,820 him 544 00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:56,119 We should talk about one of the 545 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,819 other candidates remaining, Joel 546 00:15:57,820 --> 00:15:59,739 Brennan, in the race. 547 00:15:59,740 --> 00:16:01,019 And here's how Joel Brennen 548 00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:03,139 presented himself at 549 00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:04,779 the debate when he was asked if a 550 00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:06,979 vote for him is 551 00:16:06,980 --> 00:16:07,980 a wasted vote. 552 00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:10,349 I don't think primary voters have 553 00:16:10,350 --> 00:16:11,869 been paying much attention until the 554 00:16:11,870 --> 00:16:13,709 last two weeks and all the upheaval 555 00:16:13,710 --> 00:16:14,809 that you have seen. 556 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:16,389 This is what I find when I am going 557 00:16:16,390 --> 00:16:18,329 out around the state is that, and 558 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:20,169 this has been verified by polls 559 00:16:20,170 --> 00:16:22,189 that was done here by my alma mater 560 00:16:22,190 --> 00:16:24,269 at Marquette because about 561 00:16:24,270 --> 00:16:26,189 half the people at this point 562 00:16:26,190 --> 00:16:27,330 haven't made a decision. 563 00:16:28,889 --> 00:16:30,709 34% undecided in the 564 00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:32,110 latest Marquette poll. 565 00:16:33,709 --> 00:16:35,469 So it's getting smaller, the number 566 00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:37,229 of undecide voters. 567 00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:38,689 One thing that I learned about Joel 568 00:16:38,690 --> 00:16:40,469 Brennan when I was editing a profile 569 00:16:40,470 --> 00:16:42,229 of him written by our colleague 570 00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:43,929 Corrine Hess is that he is kind of 571 00:16:43,930 --> 00:16:45,249 the Tom Barrett candidate in this 572 00:16:45,250 --> 00:16:47,209 race and more ways 573 00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:49,189 than one. Tom Barret lives 574 00:16:49,190 --> 00:16:50,190 in the same neighborhood 575 00:16:51,329 --> 00:16:53,409 and also Joel Brennen. 576 00:16:53,410 --> 00:16:55,509 Ran his campaign in 2002, 577 00:16:55,510 --> 00:16:57,089 ran his campaigns for Congress and 578 00:16:57,090 --> 00:16:58,349 the legislature, worked on his 579 00:16:58,350 --> 00:16:59,509 campaigns for Congress and the 580 00:16:59,510 --> 00:17:00,510 Legislature. 581 00:17:01,330 --> 00:17:03,089 And he's presenting a kind of a 582 00:17:03,090 --> 00:17:05,229 similar kind of politics here. 583 00:17:05,230 --> 00:17:07,169 So as the candidates sort 584 00:17:07,170 --> 00:17:09,549 of carve out their lanes, 585 00:17:09,550 --> 00:17:11,889 if you feel sort of familiar with 586 00:17:11,890 --> 00:17:13,789 Joel Brennan, it 587 00:17:13,790 --> 00:17:15,909 could be why. They're very good 588 00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:17,429 friends and speak very highly of one 589 00:17:17,430 --> 00:17:18,430 another. 590 00:17:19,109 --> 00:17:21,348 Just a closing question here. 591 00:17:21,349 --> 00:17:22,868 And I feel like it's changed a lot 592 00:17:22,869 --> 00:17:24,149 knowing that Mandela Barnes out of 593 00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:26,549 the race, but what could change 594 00:17:26,550 --> 00:17:28,429 this race that 595 00:17:28,430 --> 00:17:30,429 would present somebody with a chance 596 00:17:30,430 --> 00:17:32,430 to beat Francesca Hong? 597 00:17:33,790 --> 00:17:35,349 Is Barnes dropping out enough to do 598 00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:36,189 it on you? 599 00:17:36,190 --> 00:17:37,569 I mean, the really big question for 600 00:17:37,570 --> 00:17:39,349 me has been, is another person going 601 00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:40,849 to drop out, especially with the 602 00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:42,249 court decision this week that says 603 00:17:42,250 --> 00:17:43,569 that people can't spoil their 604 00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:44,549 ballots if their preferred 605 00:17:44,550 --> 00:17:45,749 candidate, or if the candidate that 606 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:47,589 they've already voted for drops 607 00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:48,569 out? 608 00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:50,289 And so Barnes has answered that 609 00:17:50,290 --> 00:17:52,349 question. I don't know whether any 610 00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:53,649 of these major changes that could 611 00:17:53,650 --> 00:17:55,709 still happen could have an effect on 612 00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:57,289 Hong, because again, the question is 613 00:17:57,290 --> 00:17:58,989 sort of, where do his voters then 614 00:17:58,990 --> 00:18:01,029 split? But some proportion of them 615 00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:02,309 are going to go to Hong, some 616 00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:03,849 proportion them are gonna go to a 617 00:18:03,850 --> 00:18:05,159 more mainstream Democrat. 618 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,179 So it kind of remains to be seen 619 00:18:07,180 --> 00:18:08,639 what effect this has. 620 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,479 All right. 621 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:10,539 That's all the time we have for 622 00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:12,019 today. Thanks for joining us. 623 00:18:12,020 --> 00:18:13,519 This has been Inside Wisconsin 624 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,379 Politics. 625 00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:15,319 Be sure to follow us on 626 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,599 pbswisconsin.org, wpr.org 627 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,419 YouTube, or wherever you 628 00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:20,420 get your podcasts.