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After Sarah Rodriguez drops out of

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the race for governor, David Crowley

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drops back in.

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We know Tony Evers supports him.

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We don't know yet what voters think.

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This is Inside Wisconsin Politics.

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I'm Sean Johnson here with my

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colleagues, Anya Van Wegtendonck,

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Zach Schultz, and Rich Kramer in Eau

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Claire. Hey everyone.

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Hey. Hello.

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So this race is pure chaos

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now, wouldn't you say?

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I mean, when you think about it,

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just last week, we were talking

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about Sarah Rodriguez's campaign

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sort of teetering, shortly after

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it fell, and then almost

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immediately you had David Crowley,

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who had been out of the race, get

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back in.

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Anya, why did David Crowley

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take that step so quickly

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after Sarah Rodriguez dropped out?

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Why did it need to be him in this

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race?

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Yeah, I mean, it's a really great

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question, and I think we're kind of

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trying to hammer down exactly what

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that eight-day calculus kind

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of was. So he dropped out, he backed

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Sarah Rodriguez, a couple days

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later, she made this announcement

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that there were issues with her

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campaign, but she was going to stay

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in. And I spoke to him a little bit

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ago and his timeline of events is

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essentially that she informed him

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what was going on.

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He reiterated his support for

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her campaign. Started hearing

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from backers.

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All week that they wanted him back

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in that essentially there was

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different information than than what

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he had dropped out on And we

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started hearing from sources that

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maybe he was going to get back in

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with the the finance deadline

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Um never heard back from him when I

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when I directly asked this last week

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And then we started to hear the

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rumblings on friday as

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sarah announced that she was

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dropping out that he was Going to

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announce the next day and then we

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kind of got that confirmation.

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So it really was almost a

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Trading of who was going?

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To be potentially this front runner

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the other thing that of course came

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with his announcement was Governor

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Tony Evers endorsing him

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and so that he suddenly became

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the sort of uh person who was

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tied to that administration in this

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race.

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Yeah, I don't feel like you can talk

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about the Crowley candidacy without

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talking about Governor Tony Evers in

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that decision.

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Zach, why did Tony Ebers,

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who has told us repeatedly

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throughout this primary cycle,

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I'm not going to get involved, why

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did he get involved now and why did

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he say David Crowley is my guy?

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Well, he always, the

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second half of the statement, if I'm

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not gonna evolve, is that I might

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decide later. And that always felt

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like keeping the back door open, but

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unlikely to be used.

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Well, He went through the backdoor.

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He played that card. He definitely

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did. He played his Euker card as his

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last Jack in the hole for that.

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The reason why seems it

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only can be that he and

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others that think like him are not

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happy with Francesca Hong and the

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lead she has.

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Throughout this entire race.

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All the polling, including the stuff

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we're gonna talk about later in this

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very show, shows that she is a clear

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front runner for the Democratic

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primary.

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And really there's been no ability

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for anyone else to

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centralize all of the support for

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the centrist, moderate Tony Evers'

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heir to take over that position.

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We had heard that Evers and Crowley

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got along, that they liked each

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other. How much of that personal

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relationship matters, we don't know.

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It matters a lot in politics.

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Sara Rodriguez clearly had that

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position even without the

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endorsement. So Tony Evert could

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say, I'm not the kingmaker here.

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Clearly him stepping in is that he

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felt he needed to use some of his

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political capital to try and

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boost someone to take on

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Francesca Hong and make it a two

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person race.

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Yeah, Rich, we've been kind of

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hinting at that Hong dynamic,

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all campaign cycle,

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but until now, Democrats hadn't been

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out there saying it.

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You covered the Crowley announcement

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this past Saturday.

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He's saying it now.

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Yeah, I mean, he didn't name

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her when he announced, but

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it was pretty obvious who he was

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talking about.

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He referenced the Republican

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Governors Association, the

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RGA,

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putting up ads that it says

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are attacking her, but

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Democrats feel that it's

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actually boosting her and aimed

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at trying to get her to clear the

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Democrats' nomination.

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So he mentioned that,

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and it's pretty obvious

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what's going on here.

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So what does it say about what

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Tony Evers thinks about the rest of

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the field, Anya?

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Well, I think it was a bit of a

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dance that he needed to be doing

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because he does have relationships

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with everybody else in the field.

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So obviously it was his current

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lieutenant governor who stepped out,

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Sara Rodriguez, but his former

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lieutenant governor, Mandela Barnes,

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is in there. His former DOA

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secretary, Joel Brennan, and then

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Calder Royce, who's been in the

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legislature alongside him for

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quite a number of years.

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David Crowley in some ways is

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actually the person he has.

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The least professional relationship

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with just because you know David

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operates at the county level he's

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not in the the state legislature

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quite as much so they haven't

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necessarily you know worked he

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hasn't served in the administration

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I guess I should say and so it's

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interesting that this is the person

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that he's choosing to back because

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he does have you know as

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you say he he pulled the one card

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that he kind of has and he's putting

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it behind this person who dropped

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out who had said that he didn't have

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the finances who said he didn't have

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the path.

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And so Tony Evers is saying.

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Both I back this person, I back his

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politics, and I think I can help

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him get that path.

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I will say if you just walk back a

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few years, David Crowley used to be

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a legislative staffer.

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The governor's chief of staff used

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to be a legislator staffer who was

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called David Crowely a friend and

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she is influential in the governor's

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office.

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So there's possible that

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he was getting advice there that

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David Crowly is a good candidate.

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So what's the theory of how this

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works out though, Zach?

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I mean, the governor office and

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Crowely are going into this thing

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thinking we're gonna take this big

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risk. They must think they could

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win. How does it work?

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That's a good question.

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And we have seen how quickly the

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dynamics in this race can change

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on the ground.

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We have seen candidates rise and

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fall according to finance reports,

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according to polling, candidates

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dropping out, coming back in.

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Things are happening rapidly.

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And one thing, it feels like it's

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really close to this primary

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election because ballots have

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already been returned.

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The Democratic Party is worried

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about people not being able to spoil

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those ballots if they

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back someone who's dropped out.

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And there's a...

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There's still a long way to go,

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though. There's a still a couple of

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weeks. There's more polls, there's a

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lot more ad spending, and as

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we're gonna explain, there was

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actually an incident that happened

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in Madison last night with the

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police that involved shooting.

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These kind of things shake up races

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in a big way by putting candidates

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in difficult positions to

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see how they react, and they are

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judged, according to VAT.

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Yeah, we do want to acknowledge that

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that shooting people are reacting to

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that shooting that took place

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Wednesday.

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There's a vigil tonight or Thursday

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as we record this.

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This is going to be a thing you've

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already seen the candidates react to

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some very strongly.

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It's going to affect the race.

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We're just going to take a pause

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here and wait for more information

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to learn more about this before

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we talk about it in this setting.

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Rich, turning to something.

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Very explicitly political.

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The Marquette poll came out this

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week. We've been looking forward to

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this for a while.

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The last time Marquett pulled on the

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race for governor was in March.

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So why did this one that we've

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been kind of marking on our calendar

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seem so incomplete?

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You're saying we marked the

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Marquette poll on our calendars?

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I mean, we might have, yes.

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It's because it is incomplete.

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It's not a full picture.

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But it's through no fault of

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the pollsters, who I'll mention

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in a second.

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But the questions went out to

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Wisconsin voters

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between July 8th and

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the 16th.

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Well, July 8 is when

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the things kind of got crazy

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in the primary.

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Crowley had dropped out on July 8.

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When the questions were out, so he

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wasn't included in the results

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that we saw.

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And also, the poll asked about

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Rodriguez. Her information was

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included, but she ended her

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campaign essentially right

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after they got the data

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back from their surveys.

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So it's still good information,

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still gave us a sense of where

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things are at, at least among those

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that were included in the poll

284
00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,559
results, but it's just

285
00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:25,379
a partial picture.

286
00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:27,769
So I wanted to...

287
00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:29,569
Give a shout out to pollster Charles

288
00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:31,929
Franklin, who I know watches this

289
00:09:31,930 --> 00:09:32,930
podcast.

290
00:09:34,170 --> 00:09:36,369
And we all really

291
00:09:36,370 --> 00:09:38,949
appreciate the work that Charles and

292
00:09:38,950 --> 00:09:40,769
the rest of his

293
00:09:40,770 --> 00:09:41,649
team do.

294
00:09:41,650 --> 00:09:43,229
And I think we can sympathize, at

295
00:09:43,230 --> 00:09:45,169
least I can, that we've all been

296
00:09:45,170 --> 00:09:46,669
in a position where we're writing a

297
00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:48,609
story or we just published a story

298
00:09:48,610 --> 00:09:50,549
only to have the news change and

299
00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:53,889
essentially make that story totally

300
00:09:53,890 --> 00:09:55,449
outdated, and you have to start from

301
00:09:55,450 --> 00:09:56,649
scratch. So.

302
00:09:56,650 --> 00:09:58,549
It's like throwing darts at a moving

303
00:09:58,550 --> 00:10:00,569
target. It's pretty tough.

304
00:10:00,570 --> 00:10:01,929
So kudos to them for doing what they

305
00:10:01,930 --> 00:10:01,959
could.

306
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,019
Rich Kramer looking to boost his

307
00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:05,339
approval rating with Marquette's

308
00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:06,939
pollster there with a with a shout

309
00:10:06,940 --> 00:10:08,699
out So let's take a look at those

310
00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:10,859
results real quick of

311
00:10:10,860 --> 00:10:12,359
the candidates who remain in the

312
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,339
race This is when you don't include

313
00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:15,719
David Crowley and you don't include

314
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:16,939
the voters who picked Sarah

315
00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:18,839
Rodriguez Francesca

316
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,859
Hong leads the pack with 27%

317
00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:22,959
followed by Mandela Barnes with 18

318
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,279
Joel Brennan with 5 Keldroys

319
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,439
with 2 and 48

320
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,899
percent undecided

321
00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:31,899
So Francesca Hong leads

322
00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:32,699
the field.

323
00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,599
This is the third Marquette poll

324
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,740
that she's done that in this year.

325
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:39,520
Does she have this locked up?

326
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:41,989
I mean, I think if she had it locked

327
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:43,769
up, we wouldn't be seeing the deck

328
00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:45,069
shuffling that we keep seeing

329
00:10:45,070 --> 00:10:46,989
because she does very well

330
00:10:46,990 --> 00:10:48,389
in these polls. She has a very

331
00:10:48,390 --> 00:10:50,369
energetic base of support, and

332
00:10:50,370 --> 00:10:51,829
yet she doesn't have the power

333
00:10:51,830 --> 00:10:53,349
players kind of unifying behind her

334
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:55,349
because they keep trying to find an

335
00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:56,589
alternative. I think, if she, you

336
00:10:56,590 --> 00:10:58,409
know, had it lock up, so to speak,

337
00:10:58,410 --> 00:11:00,389
there would be a confidence from the

338
00:11:00,390 --> 00:11:01,929
sort of democratic authorities, the

339
00:11:01,930 --> 00:11:03,849
democratic kingmakers that would say

340
00:11:03,850 --> 00:11:05,709
that she can win both the primary

341
00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:07,309
and win the general.

342
00:11:07,310 --> 00:11:08,419
And I think we are.

343
00:11:08,420 --> 00:11:10,299
Seeing maybe implicitly more than

344
00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:12,039
explicitly a real concern that she

345
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:13,919
can't. And so who can they kind of

346
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,879
bring in in order to beat

347
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:16,859
Tom Tiffany?

348
00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:18,639
And so she does very well in a

349
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,020
Democratic poll, although again, I

350
00:11:20,021 --> 00:11:20,959
think we also have to talk about

351
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,199
that 48% undecided number.

352
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,319
But can she do all in a general?

353
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,919
That's sort of the big question that

354
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,429
Democrats are very worried about.

355
00:11:28,430 --> 00:11:30,069
Yeah, let's talk about that.

356
00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:31,709
48%, nearly half of the people, half

357
00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:32,949
of the Democratic voters who

358
00:11:32,950 --> 00:11:34,409
responded to this saying, I don't

359
00:11:34,410 --> 00:11:35,669
know who I'm going to vote for.

360
00:11:36,810 --> 00:11:37,589
Zach, what's the deal?

361
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:38,829
We've been doing podcasts about this

362
00:11:38,830 --> 00:11:39,830
rate all summer.

363
00:11:40,750 --> 00:11:42,949
Why are so many people not

364
00:11:42,950 --> 00:11:44,849
sure about this, what we thought was

365
00:11:44,850 --> 00:11:46,249
going to be a very high profile race

366
00:11:46,250 --> 00:11:47,039
for governor?

367
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,839
Because those 48 percent make up a

368
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,139
lot of people who don't watch this

369
00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:51,519
podcast, so they are not as

370
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,539
informed. There are a lot people who

371
00:11:53,540 --> 00:11:55,179
do not pay attention to politics

372
00:11:55,180 --> 00:11:56,399
until the very end.

373
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,279
I just got the first campaign

374
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,359
flyer in my mailbox this morning.

375
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,299
They are starting to come.

376
00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:04,039
Those people will follow along.

377
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:05,119
Another thing that happens in

378
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,019
primaries pretty regularly is people

379
00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:08,719
wait to see if there is a

380
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,139
frontrunner. They don't like to

381
00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:11,579
waste their vote on someone who will

382
00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:12,439
not win.

383
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:13,619
Or they're gonna say, well, I like

384
00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:15,519
this person, but they're in fourth

385
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:16,979
place and they're not polling very

386
00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:18,699
high. Why would I throw it behind

387
00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:20,219
them? Who's my next favorite?

388
00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:21,519
Which is another good thing that the

389
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,079
Marquette poll does. They do, who is

390
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,739
your next favorite in line.

391
00:12:24,740 --> 00:12:25,839
Another thing to look at is Tom

392
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,739
Tiffany's unopposed and Republican

393
00:12:27,740 --> 00:12:28,619
primary.

394
00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:30,719
There's still 30% undecided there.

395
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,539
Now, they're going to vote

396
00:12:32,540 --> 00:12:33,679
for the Republican, but I think you

397
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,499
can take that 30%,

398
00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:36,899
put it over and compare it to the

399
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:38,739
48% for the Democrats and go, okay,

400
00:12:38,740 --> 00:12:39,859
there's just a lot of people that

401
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:41,459
either aren't tuned in yet.

402
00:12:41,460 --> 00:12:42,939
Or they're waiting to the last

403
00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:44,799
minute to figure out who is actually

404
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,879
the front runner, who do I trust

405
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,759
to be the candidate for my

406
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:49,549
favorite party.

407
00:12:49,550 --> 00:12:51,329
A large portion of Wisconsinites

408
00:12:51,330 --> 00:12:52,529
have just been living their lives

409
00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:54,729
this year, it turns out.

410
00:12:54,730 --> 00:12:56,090
And kudos to them.

411
00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:00,669
So what about the candidates

412
00:13:00,670 --> 00:13:02,509
who are toward the

413
00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:04,749
bottom of this polling, Joel Brennan

414
00:13:04,750 --> 00:13:07,129
and Kelder-Royce, Brennan at 5%,

415
00:13:07,130 --> 00:13:10,429
Royce at 2%.

416
00:13:10,430 --> 00:13:12,449
Where does that leave them?

417
00:13:12,450 --> 00:13:13,989
Rich, I'll go to you first.

418
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:14,990
What do you think?

419
00:13:17,370 --> 00:13:19,569
Well, I mean, it

420
00:13:19,570 --> 00:13:21,269
leaves them in the position that

421
00:13:21,270 --> 00:13:22,609
they've been in for a while.

422
00:13:22,610 --> 00:13:24,489
They're just towards the bottom of

423
00:13:24,490 --> 00:13:25,509
the heap in terms of the polling

424
00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:26,709
we've seen.

425
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:28,649
So ultimately, they and

426
00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:29,889
their supporters and their donors

427
00:13:29,890 --> 00:13:31,829
have decisions to make, whether they

428
00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:33,149
stay in the race or whether they

429
00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:35,069
drop out and endorse someone

430
00:13:35,070 --> 00:13:37,029
like a Crowley or a Hong or a

431
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:38,030
Barnes or whoever.

432
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:43,349
So I've never been in that position.

433
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:45,309
I don't know what all you have

434
00:13:45,310 --> 00:13:46,310
to think about.

435
00:13:47,050 --> 00:13:48,749
They've clearly invested a lot of

436
00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:50,769
time and resources into their

437
00:13:50,770 --> 00:13:52,529
races thus far, so maybe they won't

438
00:13:52,530 --> 00:13:54,409
drop out, but at

439
00:13:54,410 --> 00:13:55,689
some point you would think that

440
00:13:55,690 --> 00:13:57,029
those are conversations happening

441
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:58,209
within the campaigns.

442
00:13:58,210 --> 00:14:00,209
Seems like they are saying, we have

443
00:14:00,210 --> 00:14:01,629
money.

444
00:14:01,630 --> 00:14:03,509
And if, you know, sharing

445
00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:04,969
their own internal polling, if

446
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:07,609
voters get to know us,

447
00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:08,589
they like us.

448
00:14:08,590 --> 00:14:10,649
And so a lot of race left

449
00:14:10,650 --> 00:14:12,169
to run from their point of view.

450
00:14:12,170 --> 00:14:14,389
Joel Brennan is actually running

451
00:14:14,390 --> 00:14:16,269
probably the most negative ads I've

452
00:14:16,270 --> 00:14:18,129
seen in the primary, where he

453
00:14:18,130 --> 00:14:19,729
lists all the sort of front runner

454
00:14:19,730 --> 00:14:21,829
candidates and explains kind

455
00:14:21,830 --> 00:14:23,669
of explicitly why

456
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:25,849
they can't win in November,

457
00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:26,769
his words.

458
00:14:26,770 --> 00:14:28,689
Anya I mean,

459
00:14:28,690 --> 00:14:29,829
what's going on with Joel Brennan's

460
00:14:29,830 --> 00:14:30,539
decision there?

461
00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:32,139
Yeah, I mean, you're right.

462
00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:33,819
I think it is a kind of tonal shift.

463
00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:35,139
We've talked about some of these,

464
00:14:35,140 --> 00:14:37,079
you know, attacks on social media,

465
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,619
but this is a really kind of

466
00:14:38,620 --> 00:14:40,499
negative ad. It has the,

467
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,399
you know, the color tint over

468
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,199
the like the opponents that you

469
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:45,459
normally kind of see more in a

470
00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:46,419
general.

471
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:48,279
And I think it goes to this kind

472
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,159
of game that voters tend to

473
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,099
play in competitive primaries

474
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:53,679
in such a swing state like

475
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,579
Wisconsin, where again, you are not

476
00:14:55,580 --> 00:14:56,839
taking for granted that the winner

477
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,279
of a primary is going to win in

478
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,279
general, as might happen in other

479
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:00,249
states.

480
00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:01,569
Where Democratic voters right now

481
00:15:01,570 --> 00:15:02,989
are like playing 3D chess.

482
00:15:02,990 --> 00:15:04,429
They are not just trying to identify

483
00:15:04,430 --> 00:15:06,669
who is the candidate that I support,

484
00:15:06,670 --> 00:15:07,729
but who is the candidate that my

485
00:15:07,730 --> 00:15:09,049
neighbors are going to support?

486
00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:10,349
And so therefore, how can I make

487
00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:11,889
sure to kind of get the most out of

488
00:15:11,890 --> 00:15:13,489
my vote? And so he's speaking to

489
00:15:13,490 --> 00:15:15,609
that electability question and

490
00:15:15,610 --> 00:15:16,989
essentially saying, I am the most

491
00:15:16,990 --> 00:15:18,729
electable. And then when you do have

492
00:15:18,730 --> 00:15:20,549
48% undecided,

493
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:21,849
there may be an argument to be made,

494
00:15:21,850 --> 00:15:23,149
or he's trying to make the argument

495
00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:24,489
of like, well, what would happen if

496
00:15:24,490 --> 00:15:26,369
all 48% of them went to me, right?

497
00:15:26,370 --> 00:15:28,029
That's a lot of extra voters.

498
00:15:28,030 --> 00:15:29,489
So yes, he's now.

499
00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:31,309
3% to Fran Hong's,

500
00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:33,189
you know, 27% to Mandela Barnes's

501
00:15:33,190 --> 00:15:35,009
18%, but if he gets half

502
00:15:35,010 --> 00:15:36,809
of those undecideds, he's a

503
00:15:36,810 --> 00:15:38,129
frontrunner, and so maybe he's kind

504
00:15:38,130 --> 00:15:38,959
of banking on that.

505
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,619
There you go.

506
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:42,759
Marquette did look at,

507
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:43,899
well, they looked at a lot, but they

508
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:45,719
had some head-to-head matchups in

509
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:46,499
there.

510
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:47,579
If you look at those, you get a

511
00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:49,219
slightly different story of the

512
00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:51,199
Democrats in the race right now, not

513
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,799
including David Crowley.

514
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,879
Only Mandela Barnes defeats Tom

515
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,239
Tiffany in a head- to-head-to

516
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,099
matchup by a 44 to

517
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,299
40% split among registered

518
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:01,959
voters. Tiffany leads Francesca

519
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,839
Hong, 43 to

520
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,249
40%. So...

521
00:16:05,250 --> 00:16:07,989
A plus four for Mandela-Barnes,

522
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:10,150
minus three for Francesca Hong.

523
00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:12,709
Zach, I mean, I think it kind of

524
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:14,589
begs the question, why

525
00:16:14,590 --> 00:16:16,669
did the establishment not

526
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:18,729
rally around Mandela Barnes?

527
00:16:18,730 --> 00:16:20,369
I think that's the question Mandela

528
00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:22,149
Barnes's campaign is asking and

529
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:23,409
saying you might have made a mistake

530
00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:24,689
if you are looking for a Hong

531
00:16:24,690 --> 00:16:25,529
alternative.

532
00:16:25,530 --> 00:16:26,629
That's certainly what they are

533
00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:27,969
pushing right now.

534
00:16:27,970 --> 00:16:29,769
But I think one of the distinctions

535
00:16:29,770 --> 00:16:31,789
is Barnes came in with the most

536
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:33,369
name recognition of everyone due to

537
00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:35,049
his 2022 U.S.

538
00:16:35,050 --> 00:16:36,909
Senate run, his close loss to

539
00:16:36,910 --> 00:16:37,889
Ron Johnson.

540
00:16:37,890 --> 00:16:39,589
And it was always a question because

541
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:40,889
he also had the highest negatives

542
00:16:40,890 --> 00:16:42,749
that came with that hangover

543
00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:43,869
from that election.

544
00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:45,769
And he started running this

545
00:16:45,770 --> 00:16:47,469
race as the frontrunner.

546
00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:49,389
He introduced himself as saying, I'm

547
00:16:49,390 --> 00:16:50,869
the one to take on Tom Tiffany.

548
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:52,289
He did the thing where he ignores

549
00:16:52,290 --> 00:16:53,349
the rest of the field and kind of

550
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:54,689
pretends they weren't there.

551
00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:55,829
And then partway through this

552
00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:57,689
election, I think he or his campaign

553
00:16:57,690 --> 00:16:59,629
realized, oh no, Francesca Hong is

554
00:16:59,630 --> 00:17:00,689
there. I do have to take her

555
00:17:00,690 --> 00:17:01,529
seriously.

556
00:17:01,530 --> 00:17:02,969
So we kind of had to shift his tone

557
00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:04,328
to talking about his competitors,

558
00:17:04,329 --> 00:17:05,989
where I think at first he was

559
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:07,949
running the 2022 U.S.

560
00:17:07,950 --> 00:17:09,129
Senate primary where all of his

561
00:17:09,130 --> 00:17:10,669
competitors dropped out at the end,

562
00:17:10,670 --> 00:17:12,088
and he basically had the field to

563
00:17:12,089 --> 00:17:14,049
himself. That didn't happen.

564
00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:15,429
So it is a question of.

565
00:17:15,430 --> 00:17:16,769
Did the rest of the field say,

566
00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:17,809
you've had your chance, and you

567
00:17:17,810 --> 00:17:19,049
couldn't make your case.

568
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:20,129
Now we're going to go with someone

569
00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:21,209
else.

570
00:17:21,210 --> 00:17:22,828
Or is it simply that they think

571
00:17:22,829 --> 00:17:24,169
heritage negatives are too high,

572
00:17:24,170 --> 00:17:25,568
despite the head-to-head matchup

573
00:17:25,569 --> 00:17:26,629
looking good?

574
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,849
So it is a legitimate question for

575
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:30,389
Evers. It's a legitimate questions

576
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:31,729
for voters out there.

577
00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:33,569
How should they take all these

578
00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:35,029
different pieces of information?

579
00:17:35,030 --> 00:17:36,049
And that's what happens when you

580
00:17:36,050 --> 00:17:38,329
have this many centrist

581
00:17:38,330 --> 00:17:40,069
or moderate candidates all trying to

582
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:41,509
claim that one mantle, is they can

583
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:42,809
divide the field, which is what

584
00:17:42,810 --> 00:17:43,509
they're doing.

585
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:45,789
And now Mandela Barnes is attacking

586
00:17:45,790 --> 00:17:47,969
the establishment, which was

587
00:17:47,970 --> 00:17:49,889
definitely his friend four years

588
00:17:49,890 --> 00:17:50,829
ago.

589
00:17:50,830 --> 00:17:52,669
We should talk real quick before

590
00:17:52,670 --> 00:17:54,609
we wrap up here today

591
00:17:54,610 --> 00:17:56,449
about what happens with

592
00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:57,989
all these tens of thousands of

593
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:59,849
voters who cast

594
00:17:59,850 --> 00:18:01,709
absentee ballots and

595
00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:03,849
maybe want to change those ballots.

596
00:18:04,930 --> 00:18:05,599
A short answer.

597
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,119
Can they?

598
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:08,499
No.

599
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:09,579
Well... Well? Well?

600
00:18:09,580 --> 00:18:11,759
Not at this moment.

601
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:12,979
Yeah, according to Wisconsin

602
00:18:12,980 --> 00:18:14,799
Election Commission guidance,

603
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,379
the answer is no.

604
00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:17,839
That guidance was issued,

605
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:20,839
voted on on July 9th, issued on July

606
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:21,919
10th.

607
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,619
Anya, you had a well.

608
00:18:23,620 --> 00:18:25,239
Well, yes, so, you know, truly

609
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,179
moments before we started taping,

610
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:28,819
I got sent motions that were filed

611
00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:30,439
in court, so there is now a lawsuit

612
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,499
about this.

613
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:32,859
I did not have a chance to open

614
00:18:32,860 --> 00:18:34,459
those documents, and so we won't

615
00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:35,699
talk about them today.

616
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:36,539
I skimmed them.

617
00:18:36,540 --> 00:18:37,739
But I suspect that we'll talk about

618
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:38,759
it soon. They're saying that the
commission is wrong.

619
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,899
Yeah, that's right. And so that's

620
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:40,779
something that's going to need to

621
00:18:40,780 --> 00:18:42,239
get resolved pretty quickly.

622
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,689
The primary is August 11th.

623
00:18:43,690 --> 00:18:45,569
And so for people who

624
00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:47,469
you are talking tens of thousands

625
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:49,769
of people who voted 80,000

626
00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:52,369
people have now voted absentee

627
00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:53,769
So that's definitely something that

628
00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:55,629
we'll have to watch Get

629
00:18:55,630 --> 00:18:56,549
resolved through the courts

630
00:18:56,550 --> 00:18:57,989
potentially but as of right now

631
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:59,629
those votes cannot be counted in

632
00:18:59,630 --> 00:19:01,529
this very quickly shifting race

633
00:19:01,530 --> 00:19:02,809
for governor Well, they're counted,

634
00:19:02,810 --> 00:19:04,329
but they just can't be there's

635
00:19:04,330 --> 00:19:06,629
qualified and They

636
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:08,709
will absolutely actually be counted

637
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:10,529
no matter who you voted

638
00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:12,409
them for but changing your mind is

639
00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:14,259
not a reason uh to

640
00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:15,979
to recast your ballot according to

641
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:17,159
wisconsin elections commission

642
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,039
guidance So that's all

643
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:19,859
the time we have for today.

644
00:19:19,860 --> 00:19:20,939
Thanks for joining us.

645
00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:22,419
This has been inside wisconsin

646
00:19:22,420 --> 00:19:24,319
politics Be sure to follow us

647
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,059
on pbs wisconsin.org wpr.org

648
00:19:27,060 --> 00:19:28,999
youtube or wherever you get your

649
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000
podcasts