Democratic socialists pick up three
big victories in this week's New
York City primaries.
Could that momentum carry all the
way to Wisconsin?
And the field of Democrats running
for governor here finally shrinks.
What is the signal about the race?
This is Inside Wisconsin
Politics.
I'm Sean Johnson here with Anya
VanWaagdendonk and Rich Kramer in
Eau Claire. Hey gang.
Hey Sean.
So our show this week needs a
little bit of setup. We are of
course focused on primaries in
Wisconsin but we are looking for
clues this week from primaries
that happened in New York.
So Anya, what did happen there?
Yeah, there were a number of
congressional primaries, including
three candidates who
received the backing of Mayor Zahran
Mamdani, himself a socialist,
two of those candidates also
received endorsements from the
Democratic Socialists of America,
which is a group that he's also
affiliated with.
And all three of those candidate's
won. In one case,
kicking out an incumbent, some of
them were, you know, political
outsiders. So this was really, in
some ways, an upset and a little bit
of a validation for Mamdany,
this kind of further left mayor.
All right. For the power that he
shows in this significant blue
area.
And so a lot of people, as you say,
are kind of looking at that as
tea leaves for what that says about
the Democratic primary right now and
what voters want in their blue
candidates.
And I think that you would see
states, or people in any state,
where Democrats have a plausible
shot at winning, asking these same
questions.
So why are we asking it
here though, or what's kind of our
thread, where it feels like, hey,
this could really be significant
this year?
Right, obviously there are many
differences between New York City
and the state of Wisconsin, but one
of the things that there is kind of
in commonality here is that we have
this crowded democratic race for
governor, as we've mentioned, and
one candidate from there, Francesca
Hong, is sort of in that same vein
as Momdani and these kind of,
she identifies as a socialist, as a
democratic socialist, she's part of
that caucus in the legislature.
And so when we kind of
look at who is going to stand out
among this field of now six
Democratic candidates.
So we wonder kind of
to what extent these victories for
these further left candidates means
that Fran Hong will stand out
among Democrats.
And then what does that mean in a
more general election, where again,
a Wisconsin general election is very
different than a New York City
primary election.
So we're going to get back to the
primary for governor here in just a
minute. But Rich, this was a
congressional primary in
New York, or congressional
primaries, rather.
I wonder how we're
seeing this play out if at all
in Democratic primaries here
in Wisconsin for Congress.
You are covering one in
the third congressional district in
Western Wisconsin.
You just covered a forum there where
there is a Democratic primary.
Do you see any parallels there, Or
is it a different ballgame?
It feels like a different ball game.
I mean, for one, there aren't
any DSA candidates in
the race for the third congressional
district.
But, you know, there are some
similarities in
one way.
So we've got two candidates and
one seems to be trying to
portray herself as the
more progressive of the two.
And one is trying to,
or is acting like she's the more
moderate candidate.
So these two people are.
Emily Berge she's the former City
Council president of Eau Claire has
been on the City Council for a long
time She's the one that during
the forum that was last week in
Platteville
Was was offering up some
more of what you would expect
progressive candidates to
say for example Berge
called for Medicare
for all which is universal health
care essentially and She
said that she would She vowed
to impeach President Donald
Trump if she were elected or
support the impeachment.
The other candidate is Rebecca Cook,
who has, this is her third run
essentially for the third
congressional district.
And she was
more reserved
in answering those questions.
For example, on Medicare for All,
she said she'd love to sign up
for all of these aspirational
goals, but...
She said that it's more likely
that if Democrats win the House
majority back, they would go
more towards expanding
tax credits for the Affordable Care
Act that were passed by
Democrats during
the earlier years of the COVID
pandemic.
And she said, so that would be the
immediate first step.
And on impeachment, she said well,
the devil is in the details of what
that resolution would look like.
So those were two of the differences
that I noticed right away.
And then another difference
that predates the debate by
many months,
the House Democrats national
campaign arm
essentially endorsed Rebecca
Cook like months
ago, and they've
offered her support, they've offer
her staff training, et
cetera.
And Berge has since said,
and said during the forum that,
you know, it shouldn't be national
Democrats Picking who represents
the people of the third district.
It should be voters themselves.
So that's one way that
it stood out from
what happened in New York, but
there's still kind of
two candidates trying to pick their
lanes, and it feels like one is
going more of the progressive lane,
and the other is trying to go a
little bit more.
I think that push-pull between
national Democrats and these more
kind of, we know our community,
we are kind of of the
progressive wing, was also on
display in New York.
A number of the candidates who
were defeated were backed
by these national democratic groups
that Rich was just talking about.
And so again, while we're trying to
see how are Democrats feeling, how
are they kind of leaning going into
what they are hoping broadly to be
a wave election, who like who
are they putting their money behind
as the people who can deliver that.
And so in New York, part of the
answer was people whose policies
do fall a little bit to the left.
It'll be really interesting to see
in the governor's race and in some
of these competitive congressional
races here in Wisconsin.
What do Wisconsin Democrats, where
do they put their money behind?
I guess the thing that strikes me is
that the thing that's missing in
Wisconsin is that you don't have a
massively powerful endorsement,
it seems, as they did in New
York from Mayor Mondami,
who came in and said, this
is what it means to be a Democrat
right now. This is my slate,
essentially these are my people.
And it seems to have worked.
Is there anything like that in,
let's say, the third congressional
district for Emily Berge?
Is there somebody like that coming
in and saying, this is the
progressive choice?
Ah, not that I know of, not I
know. Meanwhile, Cook has gotten
all kinds of endorsements
from sitting members of Congress,
the Senate, et cetera, and
also the backing of the National
Party and a whole number of
third party groups as well.
So I'm not aware of any
big endorsements.
Actually the endorsements that Berge
has been promoting have been
from essentially local governments,
city council, county
board, school boards, et cetera.
So I guess I'm wondering if,
you know, that person who
could move the field like that even
exists in Wisconsin for Wisconsin
Democrats. I mean, the state party
is staying out of this
race, the race for governor,
you know, they they have massive
financial resources and
could tip the field potentially
if they wanted to. They're
definitely not going there.
We have a Democratic governor who
has some power.
He's not being vocal with his
endorsements. Is there?
Is this power vacuum sort of
leaving us up in the air about
what's going to happen.
Yeah, we've talked about this a
little bit in the context of
Republicans because there is such a
clear leader
of the party and in President Donald
Trump.
And so Democrats don't quite have
that for many reasons, including
that they don't hold these
majorities in Washington.
They don't the White House.
But I think also this really is a
little bit of like an existentially
exploratory time for Democrats,
both here in Wisconsin, where they
are facing the best odds that
they've had in a long time of
getting some real legislative power,
but then nationally.
Seeing, you know, there were other
primaries that took place on Tuesday
as well outside of New York, where
more moderate Democrats won.
One issue that was really prevalent
in a lot of these races was Israel
and the war in Gaza and how that
is playing out, how that's kind of
dividing up the Democratic Party.
We've seen that a little bit in like
Milwaukee politics where that's
played a real issue.
I don't know to what extent that
will be important statewide.
And so that could be one place where
Wisconsin's politics, obviously, of
course, our naturally very
50-50 purple stance.
Could look really different than
some of these places where Democrats
feel a little bit safer.
We know we're going to get one of
our guys in, so let's try to really
move the needle on what that looks
like.
So I gotta say as somebody who's
covered Wisconsin politics for a
while now, it's still a little bit
jarring to me to see people just
self-identify as democratic
socialist, for example.
I think five years ago, I wasn't
seeing that. But I remember Anya,
one of the first stories you did
when you came to Wisconsin Public
Radio was about this socialist
caucus in the Wisconsin legislature
where, you
know, for years it was Republicans
who were calling Democrats
socialists and they were like, no,
no no no, we're not, we're just, we
are Democrats. And now Democrats are
saying, yeah.
We are, that's who we represent,
that our values.
But then you also, you know, when I
go again to a Francesca Hong rally,
that's something that people see as
a reason that they support
her. And so it is one of those
things that, yeah, the term can
either be an insult or it can be
an endorsement depending on who's
leveling it.
And her basic message seems to be,
these are dire times.
We need a new kind of politics.
Rich, I do
think that Republicans have a
different take when it comes to this
stuff, though.
As you've seen them react
to the results in
New York City and what's going on
here in Wisconsin, how
do they feel about it?
Well, based on what I've
seen from, I guess, some of the
talking heads on social media,
I could sum it up as this.
All Democrats are socialists.
That's what Republicans are trying
to pitch right now to voters.
Obviously, we know that there's all
kinds of degrees to being a
Republican, you know, conservative,
liberal, et cetera.
I mean, just a million different
stripes out there, but
Republicans are excited
about
the nominee in Wisconsin
because they think that that'll give
them the best shot at making
sure that Tom Tiffany wins.
And in fact, they have been pointing
to this one poll that
came out weeks and weeks ago,
maybe longer, that showed
head-to-head matchups with all of
the Democratic candidates.
At the time, there were the seven
major candidates.
And literally the only one in that
poll that
Tiffany wouldn't have lost
to.
It's all theoretical,
and it only, I guess, represents
what people who took the survey felt
on that day. But it was Francesca
Hong. And so not only are they
literally talking about, well, we
hope that this is the nominee,
there are also some Republicans
are saying, hey,
why don't you go out and meddle in
that primary?
Vote for Hong.
Cross over, because the other
primaries on the GOP side aren't
as big of a deal.
I literally saw a post last night
saying...
The race for governor is the whole
game.
So Republicans go crossover,
vote for Hong, that'll make it
easier for Tiffany in
the general.
So yeah,
politics sometimes,
when you're attacking opponents, you
like to paint with a broad brush.
So they're seeing this rise up
of some of these democratic
socialist candidates around
America, and they're saying,
well, look, this is Democrats in
disarray. This is.
Proof that the party has moved to
the left, et cetera, et cetera.
I wish we had more polling right
now in this race.
You look back at the most recent
public poll, and it's like in
March in terms of Marquette
polls, for example.
I have a feeling though that you
might have a lot of people saying, I
haven't heard enough about the
candidates and I haven't made it my
mind. It's June, leave me alone.
But let's talk about the field.
We had a seven candidate Democratic
primary this week,
shrink to a six candidate primary.
Can we still use the word crowded
when we're talking about that?
It's big anyway for a primary field.
It's still pretty crowded, I would
say.
Missy Hughes dropped out, the former
CEO of the State's Economic
Development Agency.
She immediately endorsed Lieutenant
Governor Sarah Rodriguez.
It's just an open question.
How big a deal was this?
Well, you know, we've been talking
for weeks about, are we going to see
any dropouts before August?
And so this was the first one.
It was definitely a bit of breaking
news. And I think one of the things
that we've been talking about so
much is this idea of lanes and how
these candidates can kind of stand
out and make themselves seem, you
know, picking me would be different
than picking anyone else.
And so I think in her statement
and then an interview she gave after
Missy, who's kind of
she spoke about the ways that
Democrats are going to hurt each
other if they are trying to
If they are taking up space that
could be taken up by somebody else.
So she said she hopes to see other
people drop out.
And so I think that is a little bit
of a nod to the fact that they need
that while Democrats are trying to
figure out who they are trying to
be, what they're trying to
represent, and how do I beat Tom
Tiffany or other people who are
picked by Donald Trump?
What does that look like for the
Democrats? And so, I think this was
a signal that one person at least
made that calculus of what was good
for the party, and then how to kind
of throw her
power and her behind that.
Rich Well,
I would say that it's
not that big of a deal it doesn't
seem like that big have a deal to me
because Hughes wasn't
pulling very high and you
know running for office even you
know, running a primary.
It's very expensive So I
I have no idea why she decided to
step down or
out of the race but you know the
endorsement of
Is is something but
again, there's still six people
in the race and I'll
just say that that Hughes dropping
out, you know, she was the
essentially a pro business kind of
a Democrat Talked
a lot about how you
know if you improve the economy
you can improve people's lives with
these other programs and etc
but
republicans have said well look more
proof they're pushing the moderates
out song it's uh...
It's all uh...
Award game i guess but
big picture i'm not sure makes a
huge deal
You know, she was the kind of
candidate who you could imagine in
a Democratic year like we could be
headed toward in the
Trump midterm.
If she was a general election
candidate, you know,
you can imagine someone like Missy
Hughes winning and becoming
governor. But in a democratic
primary, pitching that business
message, especially at this moment
in time, it seemed like a hard sell.
She also did kind of go for that
moderate lane a little bit there.
Month or so ago when she was the
only one who came out really in
support of that field surplus
deal that was negotiated by
Tony Evers and Robin
Voss among other Republicans in the
legislature.
The other thing that made her unique
is that she comes from Western
Wisconsin. That's right.
She's the only one.
This sort of bastion of democratic
politics that has moved very far
away from that.
Every other candidate is Milwaukee
or Madison.
And so it's also, I think, a little
bit of a signifier that she was
not able to make much of a splash,
even with that more rural farmer
focused Western Wisconsin background
that again, as we look at where is
the party going, that it seems to be
going towards the major bases of
Milwaukee County, Dane County.
OK, another open question
here, I guess.
Is there any connection, do you
think, to the Francesca Hong story
that we've been talking about?
And Missy Hughes endorsing someone
like Sarah Rodriguez.
Is she making a bet that, look,
this candidate's politics kind
of aligns with mine.
We got to unite and
stop the candidates from the
left.
I mean, I don't know what's in her
heart, and I would never guess.
But again, from this idea of not
wanting to kind of crowd out people
who are similar to you, who have
similar politics, who you think
could do a good and effective job in
making those politics a reality,
if you have one quite popular
candidate who is Francesca Hong,
again, polling shows her towards the
top, and then you have a number of
people kind of further towards the
center, all fighting amongst
themselves, right?
Missy Hughes voters and Fran Hong
voters were probably never going to,
you know. Nobody's vacillating
between those two candidates.
And so that's maybe a way of
trying to bring some more strength
into the not democratic socialist
wing of the democratic party,
going into what's expected to just
be an incredibly tight general
election.
She did say something in
her press conference where she
endorsed Sarah Rodriguez.
She can't come out there and say,
hey, I'm kind of the moderate
candidate. I support her.
But she said, we got
a lot of good things going on in
this state. We don't need to tear it
all down.
So that to me is a signal that
she supports the kind of politics
which is similar to
what we've got already in Wisconsin,
including the Evers administration,
which she and Sarah Rodriguez
have served under.
So that's all the time we have for
today. Thanks for joining us.
Our colleague, Zach Schultz, will be
back next week.
This has been Inside Wisconsin
Politics.
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