1 00:00:50,180 --> 00:00:51,759 So that big budget deal that got 2 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:52,859 voted down in the Wisconsin 3 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:55,159 legislature, turns out it's 4 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,579 really popular. 5 00:00:56,580 --> 00:00:58,159 What can we make of that finding in 6 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,559 the latest poll by Marquette 7 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:00,979 University? 8 00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:02,639 And Tom Tiffany has the Republican 9 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,518 field largely to himself as he 10 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:05,599 runs for governor. 11 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,299 We talk about his approach. 12 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:09,459 This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. 13 00:01:14,060 --> 00:01:15,599 I'm Sean Johnson, here with my 14 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,319 colleagues, Zach Schultz, Anya 15 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:19,399 VanWaagtenonck, and Rich Kramer in 16 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,039 Eau Claire. Hey, everyone. 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,159 Hello. 18 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,359 Hey, Sean. 19 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,559 So we have used the word rare 20 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,659 to describe this budget surplus 21 00:01:27,660 --> 00:01:29,699 deal more than once in 22 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:30,559 the last few weeks. 23 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,519 I mean, it's rare to see a 24 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,819 Democratic governor and Republican 25 00:01:32,820 --> 00:01:34,339 leaders come together to negotiate 26 00:01:34,340 --> 00:01:35,839 something like this in an election 27 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,379 year. Rare to see this kind of 28 00:01:37,380 --> 00:01:39,939 bipartisan opposition 29 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:42,779 kind of backstabbing after the vote. 30 00:01:42,780 --> 00:01:44,919 Rich, I'd say it's rare 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,959 to see this kind of a 32 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:48,999 poll from Marquette University, 33 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,899 where you have such lopsided 34 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:53,199 support in favor of any issue. 35 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:54,200 What did Marquett find? 36 00:01:56,130 --> 00:01:58,229 So they found that among 37 00:01:58,230 --> 00:02:00,049 the 454 38 00:02:00,050 --> 00:02:02,029 Wisconsin residents that they 39 00:02:02,030 --> 00:02:04,729 surveyed, 80% 40 00:02:04,730 --> 00:02:06,509 said that the legislature should 41 00:02:06,510 --> 00:02:08,589 have passed the surplus spending 42 00:02:08,590 --> 00:02:09,409 deal. 43 00:02:09,410 --> 00:02:11,349 And what's really striking to 44 00:02:11,350 --> 00:02:13,049 your point is that when you break 45 00:02:13,050 --> 00:02:14,929 that down by partisanship, 46 00:02:14,930 --> 00:02:16,889 the numbers don't vary that much. 47 00:02:16,890 --> 00:02:19,169 Among Republicans, it was 77% 48 00:02:19,170 --> 00:02:21,689 who said that it should have past, 49 00:02:21,690 --> 00:02:23,589 independents 81%, Democrats 50 00:02:23,590 --> 00:02:24,489 80%. 51 00:02:24,490 --> 00:02:25,459 So. 52 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:27,459 That is a, I mean, 53 00:02:27,460 --> 00:02:29,659 that's a strong majority of people 54 00:02:29,660 --> 00:02:31,099 cutting across all the partisan 55 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:32,979 demographics who wanted 56 00:02:32,980 --> 00:02:34,979 to see this thing get 57 00:02:34,980 --> 00:02:37,039 passed. And the poll also 58 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,678 asked questions about, 59 00:02:39,679 --> 00:02:41,239 you know, are you gonna remember 60 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,019 this in the fall, et cetera, et 61 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:45,039 cetera. And some people said they 62 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,099 will. 63 00:02:46,100 --> 00:02:48,039 And it's just really fascinating. 64 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,779 I talked to Charles Franklin, who's 65 00:02:49,780 --> 00:02:51,879 Marquette's pollster. 66 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:53,959 And he said he wanted to do this 67 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,759 poll. Which is different than 68 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,639 others, because it was 69 00:02:57,640 --> 00:02:59,799 really interesting to him to see the 70 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,839 bipartisan birth of this legislation 71 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,659 and the bipartisan death of 72 00:03:03,660 --> 00:03:05,319 it. So he wanted to see where the 73 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,320 public stood. 74 00:03:07,140 --> 00:03:09,859 When you saw those numbers come out, 75 00:03:09,860 --> 00:03:11,999 Zach, Anya, what 76 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,139 stood out to you? 77 00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:15,179 I mean, to me, I think the obvious 78 00:03:15,180 --> 00:03:17,859 top line number four of five is 79 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:18,839 sort of eye popping. 80 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,459 I would not have imagined that level 81 00:03:20,460 --> 00:03:21,999 of support for any bill that comes 82 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,799 out of Wisconsin legislature. 83 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,259 Well, I would think there are two 84 00:03:25,260 --> 00:03:26,279 things that jumped out at me. 85 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,639 The first is we talked about it from 86 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:29,099 the very beginning. This was the 87 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:31,079 definition of a bipartisan 88 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,819 bill that the public has repeatedly 89 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:34,759 said they want their lawmakers 90 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:35,919 to do. 91 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,979 And two, this is why we do not 92 00:03:37,980 --> 00:03:39,799 legislate by referendum. 93 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,239 The public will always support 94 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,859 something that gives them money, no 95 00:03:42,860 --> 00:03:44,879 matter the fiscal complications down 96 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,299 the road. And they hate nuance. 97 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:48,899 Most people in the state just want 98 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:50,319 things done. 99 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,319 In a sane fashion, they don't like 100 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,659 to get into the details of what will 101 00:03:53,660 --> 00:03:55,119 it mean for the structural deficit 102 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,179 in two years. 103 00:03:56,180 --> 00:03:57,419 They're worried about their gas tank 104 00:03:57,420 --> 00:03:58,199 today. 105 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,819 So it's not, if anything, it's 106 00:03:59,820 --> 00:04:01,259 surprising there weren't more people 107 00:04:01,260 --> 00:04:03,099 that wanted this deal done closer to 108 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:05,079 90% because it looked like 109 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,999 a win-win for everybody. 110 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,099 But it is those little nitty 111 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:11,059 details that the Democrats and some 112 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:12,599 Republicans jumped on to say why 113 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,299 this didn't get passed. 114 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:15,239 Anya, how about you? 115 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,319 I mean, to me, this finding 116 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,599 sort of puts the 117 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,458 way that people reacted to this bill 118 00:04:21,459 --> 00:04:22,979 in kind of a new light. 119 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:24,959 I remember asking you last week, 120 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,159 why would some Democrats not 121 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,659 want to come out against this when 122 00:04:28,660 --> 00:04:30,399 other Democrats are? 123 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:31,519 Well, maybe we have a pretty good 124 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:32,209 answer here. 125 00:04:32,210 --> 00:04:33,729 Well, yeah, I think we've talked 126 00:04:33,730 --> 00:04:35,249 about it as a messaging tool as 127 00:04:35,250 --> 00:04:37,269 well. And there is, to Zach's point, 128 00:04:37,270 --> 00:04:38,929 there's the nuanced messaging and 129 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:40,489 the un-nuanced messaging. 130 00:04:40,490 --> 00:04:42,509 And one of those is 131 00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:44,669 easier to resonate 132 00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:46,869 with voters. And so you can kind of 133 00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:48,589 say, do you want money in your 134 00:04:48,590 --> 00:04:50,049 pocket or not? Do you want money for 135 00:04:50,050 --> 00:04:51,209 your schools or not. 136 00:04:51,210 --> 00:04:52,609 And most people, I, think, are going 137 00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:53,929 to say, yes, I would like money in 138 00:04:53,930 --> 00:04:56,169 my pocket. I would money in schools. 139 00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:57,509 Having the more complicated 140 00:04:57,510 --> 00:04:59,169 messaging, you know, the opponents 141 00:04:59,170 --> 00:04:59,949 of the D.R. 142 00:04:59,950 --> 00:05:01,429 Are the ones who are going to really 143 00:05:01,430 --> 00:05:02,949 have sort of their work cut out for 144 00:05:02,950 --> 00:05:03,949 them because they have to kind of 145 00:05:03,950 --> 00:05:06,069 prove a negative and say, well, 146 00:05:06,070 --> 00:05:07,569 but if we had done this, there would 147 00:05:07,570 --> 00:05:08,469 have been this deficit. 148 00:05:08,470 --> 00:05:09,689 We would have had to live under, you 149 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:11,549 know, austerity measures going 150 00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:12,369 forward. 151 00:05:12,370 --> 00:05:14,009 That's a much more complicated thing 152 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:15,649 than do you want 300 bucks in your 153 00:05:15,650 --> 00:05:16,669 bank account or not. 154 00:05:16,670 --> 00:05:18,549 Yeah, I will say that when I saw 155 00:05:18,550 --> 00:05:20,669 this poll, my immediate thought was, 156 00:05:20,670 --> 00:05:22,209 well, you didn't tell them about the 157 00:05:22,210 --> 00:05:23,549 other side of this, that if you do 158 00:05:23,550 --> 00:05:25,409 this thing, you're gonna blow a $2.9 159 00:05:25,410 --> 00:05:27,789 billion hole in the budget. 160 00:05:27,790 --> 00:05:29,889 Actually, Marquette did ask 161 00:05:29,890 --> 00:05:31,029 about that, Rich. 162 00:05:31,030 --> 00:05:33,189 They said in so many words, 163 00:05:33,190 --> 00:05:34,929 that this could create budget issues 164 00:05:34,930 --> 00:05:36,609 down the road and do you really 165 00:05:36,610 --> 00:05:38,009 wanna do this now? 166 00:05:38,010 --> 00:05:39,010 And the public said. 167 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:42,539 They said we don't care. 168 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:43,919 I mean, they might care, but they 169 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,759 said that we still 170 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,499 think that it would be better to get 171 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:49,579 this money to schools and 172 00:05:49,580 --> 00:05:51,439 to ourselves in the 173 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,259 form of property tax relief and 174 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:55,199 rebate checks, $300 for single 175 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,599 adults and tax 176 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,699 filers and $600 177 00:05:59,700 --> 00:06:01,059 for married couples. 178 00:06:01,060 --> 00:06:03,619 So they said it'd be better now than 179 00:06:03,620 --> 00:06:05,439 next year, even considering the 180 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,279 potential for nearly a $3 181 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:09,319 billion budget deficit going into 182 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:10,879 the next state budget. 183 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,199 And I also wanted to mention that it 184 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,919 has been really interesting seeing 185 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,239 the opposition. 186 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,179 Almost every major candidate 187 00:06:19,180 --> 00:06:21,039 in the race for governor was against 188 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:22,359 it. Tom Tiffany on the Republican 189 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,359 side and on the Democratic 190 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,399 side, the only Democrat who 191 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,839 came out and said we should be 192 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:29,439 supporting this as former Wisconsin 193 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,119 Economic Development Corporation 194 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,319 director CEO 195 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,619 Missy Hughes and 196 00:06:35,620 --> 00:06:37,619 so after the vote failed 197 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:39,719 and especially after this 198 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,539 came out she said see 199 00:06:41,540 --> 00:06:43,459 you know this is why you know 200 00:06:43,460 --> 00:06:44,899 I want to get things done people 201 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:46,759 want to give things done so 202 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,039 it's going to be interesting to see 203 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,499 what if any ads 204 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:52,319 campaign attack ads come from 205 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,459 this because essentially you 206 00:06:54,460 --> 00:06:56,099 know Tiffany would have to say they 207 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:57,999 didn't pass the thing that I 208 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,119 didn't support or vice versa 209 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,859 you know so it'll be really 210 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:03,719 interesting to see if it if it plays 211 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,769 into the campaigns much 212 00:07:05,770 --> 00:07:07,129 I also wonder if this was just 213 00:07:07,130 --> 00:07:09,009 another window into 214 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:10,929 an issue that we already know 215 00:07:10,930 --> 00:07:12,749 is big, and that is 216 00:07:12,750 --> 00:07:13,949 the cost of living. 217 00:07:13,950 --> 00:07:15,689 People feel that cost of live, and 218 00:07:15,690 --> 00:07:17,669 when you ask them, would you 219 00:07:17,670 --> 00:07:19,469 like a little help, might sound like 220 00:07:19,470 --> 00:07:20,649 a a little in terms of the state 221 00:07:20,650 --> 00:07:22,349 budget and 300 bucks. 222 00:07:22,350 --> 00:07:23,509 You can say that's not going to 223 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:25,549 solve all their problems. 224 00:07:25,550 --> 00:07:27,449 But the answer is a resounding yes 225 00:07:27,450 --> 00:07:29,059 when you asked that question. 226 00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:30,379 It's the number one issue that 227 00:07:30,380 --> 00:07:31,959 people have been talking about for 228 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,239 more than a year now. 229 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,359 Affordability has been an issue. 230 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,659 It was an issue in the 24 231 00:07:35,660 --> 00:07:37,079 presidential campaign. 232 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,079 So in some ways it's surprising that 233 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:40,719 all these major candidates dropped 234 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,459 the ball. And Sean, I'll turn around 235 00:07:42,460 --> 00:07:44,039 the point that Rich brought and 236 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,459 brought back to you, which is it 237 00:07:45,460 --> 00:07:46,539 seems like a lot of these major 238 00:07:46,540 --> 00:07:48,039 candidates other than Missy Hughes 239 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:49,739 have flubbed their chance to have 240 00:07:49,740 --> 00:07:51,439 themselves a really nice issue to 241 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:52,499 campaign on in the fall. 242 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:54,259 So, if there's anyone that would 243 00:07:54,260 --> 00:07:56,329 take back their new- opposition. 244 00:07:56,330 --> 00:07:57,749 Do you think there's one or two 245 00:07:57,750 --> 00:07:59,369 candidates that would be better off 246 00:07:59,370 --> 00:08:00,450 if they'd been supportive? 247 00:08:01,530 --> 00:08:02,389 Maybe. 248 00:08:02,390 --> 00:08:03,989 Maybe. I think for Democrats, they 249 00:08:03,990 --> 00:08:05,209 have to focus on winning that 250 00:08:05,210 --> 00:08:06,129 primary. 251 00:08:06,130 --> 00:08:08,129 And so in the moments after this 252 00:08:08,130 --> 00:08:10,429 thing was made public, 253 00:08:10,430 --> 00:08:12,389 they had to decide, what 254 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:13,649 is the left position? 255 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:15,629 And how close do I want to get to 256 00:08:15,630 --> 00:08:17,329 that? And they made those 257 00:08:17,330 --> 00:08:19,169 calculations, you know, I think in 258 00:08:19,170 --> 00:08:21,389 hindsight, seeing an 80% issue, 259 00:08:21,390 --> 00:08:22,849 maybe you would want to be on the 260 00:08:22,850 --> 00:08:24,209 side of the 80%, especially when 261 00:08:24,210 --> 00:08:26,249 Democrats and independents 262 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:27,589 basically feel the same way about 263 00:08:27,590 --> 00:08:28,590 that stuff. 264 00:08:30,570 --> 00:08:32,489 I we've talked about this before, 265 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:33,548 but whether or not they'll pay the 266 00:08:33,549 --> 00:08:36,229 price for this in November, 267 00:08:36,230 --> 00:08:38,408 we should say, you know, 268 00:08:38,409 --> 00:08:40,629 voters were asked about that, Rich, 269 00:08:40,630 --> 00:08:41,928 and whether or not they will be 270 00:08:41,929 --> 00:08:43,869 thinking about this as they vote 271 00:08:43,870 --> 00:08:45,509 in November. How important is it to 272 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:46,489 them? 273 00:08:46,490 --> 00:08:47,490 What did they say there? 274 00:08:49,219 --> 00:08:51,299 So 73% of the 275 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:54,439 respondents said that this, 276 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,319 you know, where candidates stood on 277 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,259 this, them opposing this 278 00:08:58,260 --> 00:09:00,219 legislation will be either 279 00:09:00,220 --> 00:09:02,199 somewhat or very important to 280 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,219 them come November. 281 00:09:03,220 --> 00:09:05,119 And I asked Charles Franklin about 282 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,539 this, you know because in our world, 283 00:09:08,540 --> 00:09:10,219 in November might as well be three 284 00:09:10,220 --> 00:09:11,899 years away in terms of how fast 285 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:13,379 things can change on the campaign 286 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:14,219 trail. 287 00:09:14,220 --> 00:09:16,259 And he said well people 288 00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:18,339 might not remember individual votes 289 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:20,299 on this specific bill, but 290 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:22,219 to Zach's point Franklin said 291 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:24,099 that Cost of living 292 00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:26,079 affordability property taxes school 293 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,139 funding have been and will 294 00:09:28,140 --> 00:09:30,079 likely Continue 295 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,399 to be top of mind for them. 296 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,509 Yeah, I'm tempted to say 297 00:09:33,510 --> 00:09:35,070 I don't believe you voters, you 298 00:09:35,071 --> 00:09:36,149 know, something else is gonna come 299 00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:38,129 along between now and November. 300 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:40,169 But still, that is a pretty 301 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:41,669 overwhelming finding from people 302 00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:43,729 right now saying, yeah, I'm 303 00:09:43,730 --> 00:09:45,149 gonna remember this. 304 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:46,009 How about the candidates for 305 00:09:46,010 --> 00:09:47,049 governor specifically though, 306 00:09:47,050 --> 00:09:48,689 because that was one where I thought 307 00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:50,609 the findings were a little 308 00:09:50,610 --> 00:09:51,409 squishier. 309 00:09:51,410 --> 00:09:53,689 This is more the Wisconsin I know, 310 00:09:53,690 --> 00:09:55,049 when people are presented with this 311 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:57,149 idea of whether or not they 312 00:09:57,150 --> 00:09:58,949 thought it was wrong for Tom Tiffany 313 00:09:58,950 --> 00:10:00,949 to take a stand against this or for 314 00:10:00,950 --> 00:10:02,529 other Democratic candidates to take 315 00:10:02,530 --> 00:10:03,530 a stand against this. 316 00:10:04,330 --> 00:10:05,829 Ah, it was more, it's closer to 317 00:10:05,830 --> 00:10:07,229 50-50, right? 318 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:09,049 You had, it 319 00:10:09,050 --> 00:10:10,469 seems like Democrats and Republicans 320 00:10:10,470 --> 00:10:12,389 may be willing to give 321 00:10:12,390 --> 00:10:14,109 their candidate the benefit of the 322 00:10:14,110 --> 00:10:15,769 doubt if you hear the right 323 00:10:15,770 --> 00:10:18,229 messaging between now and November, 324 00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:18,799 Anya. 325 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,099 Yeah, you know, one of the sort of 326 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:22,939 upsetting truths for those of us who 327 00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:24,539 really care about facts and details 328 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:26,459 in the public media world is 329 00:10:26,460 --> 00:10:28,299 that voters don't really care about 330 00:10:28,300 --> 00:10:29,479 those things, right? They care about 331 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:30,999 sort of feeling heard and feeling 332 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,679 considered. And so one of things 333 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:34,559 that candidates need to 334 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,539 do right now is present that 335 00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:37,939 they take people's concerns 336 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:39,059 seriously. They take the 337 00:10:39,060 --> 00:10:40,319 affordability concerns seriously, 338 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,339 they take the school funding 339 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:43,179 concerns seriously and the 340 00:10:43,180 --> 00:10:45,159 kind of details of it are a lot 341 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,779 less important to your everyday 342 00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:48,409 voter. And so how do you kind of 343 00:10:48,410 --> 00:10:49,369 message that in a way that makes 344 00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:51,029 people feel heard and understood 345 00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:52,709 enough to want to check that box at 346 00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:54,549 the ballot box, rather than kind 347 00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:55,549 of getting into some of this 348 00:10:55,550 --> 00:10:57,329 infighting around the actual 349 00:10:57,330 --> 00:10:59,189 mechanisms at the Capitol by 350 00:10:59,190 --> 00:11:00,649 which it could have or could have 351 00:11:00,650 --> 00:11:01,949 not occurred? 352 00:11:01,950 --> 00:11:03,509 I think you've brought up a really 353 00:11:03,510 --> 00:11:05,489 important element and that is that 354 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:06,929 feeds into the cynicism of some 355 00:11:06,930 --> 00:11:08,289 people out there and the question 356 00:11:08,290 --> 00:11:10,589 for every midterm is turnout. 357 00:11:10,590 --> 00:11:12,169 Presidential elections will always 358 00:11:12,170 --> 00:11:13,229 have high turnout just because 359 00:11:13,230 --> 00:11:14,769 there's so much attention. 360 00:11:14,770 --> 00:11:16,369 Midterms, the candidate success 361 00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:18,229 rises and falls with who shows up 362 00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:19,849 and which party can get their people 363 00:11:19,850 --> 00:11:21,669 out. So if there are 364 00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:23,629 voters, independents or moderates 365 00:11:23,630 --> 00:11:25,569 on either side who feel like 366 00:11:25,570 --> 00:11:27,149 They're not being heard by their 367 00:11:27,150 --> 00:11:29,319 politicians because both sides... 368 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,759 But all the candidates in front of 369 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,719 them said, no, I'd rather do it my 370 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:33,659 way later on. 371 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,039 You don't need anything right now. 372 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,439 You can just wait. 373 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,879 That may feed into them saying, 374 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,039 well, forget it, I'm just gonna tune 375 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,759 out. None of you deserve my vote. 376 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,139 And that could impact turnout. 377 00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:44,679 Who were those voters more likely to 378 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:45,919 be persuadable by? 379 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,439 Which side could they have gone to 380 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:48,659 if they vote at all? 381 00:11:48,660 --> 00:11:50,459 That is a big factor when you see 382 00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:52,259 the potential of this midterm with 383 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:54,239 wave elections and people feeling 384 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:55,319 upset and angry. 385 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:56,679 Some of them just tune out and there 386 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:57,959 are votes that are not even counted 387 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,039 at all they never show up. 388 00:12:00,050 --> 00:12:01,329 So let's talk about one of the 389 00:12:01,330 --> 00:12:02,729 candidates for governor in a little 390 00:12:02,730 --> 00:12:04,689 more detail here. 391 00:12:04,690 --> 00:12:06,509 Tom Tiffany had a forum 392 00:12:06,510 --> 00:12:08,349 in Madison on the day that 393 00:12:08,350 --> 00:12:09,589 this poll came out. 394 00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:11,449 So it was a few hours after the 395 00:12:11,450 --> 00:12:12,749 poll had been out there. 396 00:12:12,750 --> 00:12:14,109 Essentially, he'd seen the answers 397 00:12:14,110 --> 00:12:16,149 to the test by then, and he knew 398 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,629 where the public stood on this 399 00:12:17,630 --> 00:12:18,629 issue. 400 00:12:18,630 --> 00:12:20,589 Tom Tiffany was asked, Anya, at this 401 00:12:20,590 --> 00:12:22,469 forum, you know, do you 402 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:24,589 stand by your comments 403 00:12:24,590 --> 00:12:26,569 earlier that you oppose this 404 00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:28,229 deal? What did he have to say? 405 00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:30,149 He stands by those. 406 00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:32,089 But again, like needing to thread 407 00:12:32,090 --> 00:12:33,949 that needle of, but yes, I 408 00:12:33,950 --> 00:12:35,129 want to fund schools. 409 00:12:35,130 --> 00:12:37,009 Yes, I think that people need more 410 00:12:37,010 --> 00:12:38,069 money in their pockets. 411 00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:39,829 I just don't think that this was the 412 00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:41,229 right deal for that. 413 00:12:41,230 --> 00:12:42,909 And so again, he got kind of squishy 414 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:43,709 on detail. 415 00:12:43,710 --> 00:12:45,369 So he talked about, he believes 416 00:12:45,370 --> 00:12:47,389 basically every penny of the surplus 417 00:12:47,390 --> 00:12:49,229 needs to go back into people's 418 00:12:49,230 --> 00:12:50,869 pockets. This would have obviously 419 00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:52,709 split the surplus 420 00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:54,629 between school funding and some of 421 00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:55,849 those rebates and then things like 422 00:12:55,850 --> 00:12:57,229 no tax on tips. 423 00:12:57,230 --> 00:12:58,729 He then didn't really have a 424 00:12:58,730 --> 00:13:00,529 proposal for how he would return 425 00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:01,829 that money to the taxpayers. 426 00:13:01,830 --> 00:13:03,949 And he didn't have details on 427 00:13:03,950 --> 00:13:05,729 how he would then boost school 428 00:13:05,730 --> 00:13:06,889 funding. Because of course, that is 429 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:08,909 the other kind of half of the deal. 430 00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:10,089 But he said he really cares about 431 00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:11,369 that. 432 00:13:11,370 --> 00:13:13,169 And stay tuned for his first budget 433 00:13:13,170 --> 00:13:14,629 as governor. So it was a way of, I 434 00:13:14,630 --> 00:13:16,089 think, trying to thread that needle 435 00:13:16,090 --> 00:13:17,709 of I didn't support it because it 436 00:13:17,710 --> 00:13:19,629 didn't do enough for you, the 437 00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:21,809 voter, vote for me, and I'll 438 00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:23,289 make it happen. I will find a way to 439 00:13:23,290 --> 00:13:24,729 balance the budget and find a to put 440 00:13:24,730 --> 00:13:25,509 money in your pocket. 441 00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:27,309 What did he describe the projected 442 00:13:27,310 --> 00:13:28,659 surplus as at this forum? 443 00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:30,159 I believe he said it was Madison 444 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,119 math to try to, if 445 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,419 there was going to be a deficit 446 00:13:33,420 --> 00:13:34,759 because of how you spend money, that 447 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,199 that is Madison math, and he's going 448 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,599 to do sort of family checkbook math, 449 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,799 which is how you balance a budget. 450 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,299 So again, a lot of sort of talking 451 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:44,259 points, not a lot specifics. 452 00:13:44,260 --> 00:13:45,799 Yeah, I would say in terms of the 453 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,779 Madison math versus the family math, 454 00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:49,879 it is basically like assuming your 455 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,799 family is not going to get a raise 456 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:52,939 in the next couple of years. 457 00:13:52,940 --> 00:13:54,159 And this is what would happen if you 458 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:55,979 didn't, you would run out of money. 459 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,099 At this forum hosted 460 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:01,019 by Wist Politics in Madison, 461 00:14:01,020 --> 00:14:02,919 Tom Tiffany was also given an 462 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,899 open invitation to show where 463 00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:06,739 he disagrees with President Donald 464 00:14:06,740 --> 00:14:07,649 Trump. 465 00:14:07,650 --> 00:14:09,329 One of those questions was about 466 00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:11,329 whether he'd support this $1.8 467 00:14:11,330 --> 00:14:13,169 billion pot of money 468 00:14:13,170 --> 00:14:14,469 that Trump's administration has 469 00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:17,129 dubbed the Anti-Weaponization Fund. 470 00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:18,189 That's the one the Democrats worry 471 00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:19,889 could be used to compensate people 472 00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:22,409 like the January 6th defendants. 473 00:14:22,410 --> 00:14:24,049 Here's what Tom Tiffany had to say. 474 00:14:25,060 --> 00:14:27,199 So I'm still studying the details in 475 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,119 regards to that. 476 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,179 I'm asking the administration to 477 00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:32,199 give us more as far as how 478 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,719 exactly they expect to 479 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,819 implement this. 480 00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:38,879 I'd say just 481 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,459 one thought that I have in regards 482 00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:42,799 to it is that 483 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,439 maybe some people are due 484 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,440 compensation. 485 00:14:46,460 --> 00:14:48,499 So Zach, this is a 50-50 486 00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:50,439 state and Tom Tiffany has the luxury 487 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,579 of not running in a big 488 00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:54,419 competitive Republican primary right 489 00:14:54,420 --> 00:14:55,499 now. 490 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:57,339 One could argue that this would be a 491 00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:59,179 chance for him to say, this where I 492 00:14:59,180 --> 00:15:01,259 differ from the president. 493 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:02,929 Why didn't we hear that from him? 494 00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:04,129 Because he really hasn't differed 495 00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:05,689 from the president on most issues 496 00:15:05,690 --> 00:15:07,229 since the president has come into 497 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:08,729 power and since Tom Tiffany's been 498 00:15:08,730 --> 00:15:10,729 in Congress. They've been very 499 00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:12,209 closely associated. 500 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:13,709 And that's not just Tom Tiffany 501 00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:14,809 person belief, that's him 502 00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:16,049 representing his congressional 503 00:15:16,050 --> 00:15:17,909 district. The seventh is the 504 00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:19,949 most MAGA red of all 505 00:15:19,950 --> 00:15:20,989 of the Republican districts 506 00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:22,189 throughout the state. 507 00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:23,989 So yes, there's a political logic 508 00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:25,029 that comes with, well, he doesn't 509 00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:26,709 have a Republican primary to worry 510 00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:28,169 about. So he already has Trump's 511 00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:29,089 endorsement, the party's 512 00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:29,869 endorsements. 513 00:15:29,870 --> 00:15:31,289 So he can afford to split from 514 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:32,609 Trump. It's not the same as. 515 00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:33,929 Some of these primaries we've seen 516 00:15:33,930 --> 00:15:35,849 around the country where everyone's 517 00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:37,249 desperately clinging to try and get 518 00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:39,229 Trump to give him their blessing so 519 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:40,489 they can win a primary. 520 00:15:40,490 --> 00:15:41,829 He's already got that. 521 00:15:41,830 --> 00:15:43,629 So I think this clearly shows in his 522 00:15:43,630 --> 00:15:44,889 prior statements and a lot of these 523 00:15:44,890 --> 00:15:46,749 similar issues about the 2020 524 00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:49,089 election and election fraud and 525 00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:51,009 conspiracies clearly shows this 526 00:15:51,010 --> 00:15:51,849 is who he is. 527 00:15:51,850 --> 00:15:53,709 And this has been who he 528 00:15:53,710 --> 00:15:55,369 all along in Congress. 529 00:15:55,370 --> 00:15:56,809 This really isn't any different from 530 00:15:56,810 --> 00:15:58,169 the Tom Tiffany we've been covering 531 00:15:58,170 --> 00:15:59,439 for all these years. 532 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:00,479 I think there may be some 533 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:01,759 Republicans who wish it was 534 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,599 different because now he's in a 535 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,619 more widespread political spotlight 536 00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:07,019 and a little higher stakes with the 537 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:08,919 gubernatorial election, but it's 538 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,519 not really a change from who he's 539 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:11,520 always been. 540 00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:14,559 Rich, we've had the benefit 541 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,899 of a few days since that forum, but 542 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:18,839 he covered a lot there in this 543 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,879 forum by Whist Politics. 544 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,859 What were some people in his own 545 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:24,319 party saying about how that went for 546 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,219 him and kind of how he maneuvered 547 00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:27,220 around these questions? 548 00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:31,019 So through my trolling 549 00:16:31,020 --> 00:16:33,019 of social media, 550 00:16:33,020 --> 00:16:34,839 trolling is 551 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:35,899 something else. 552 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:36,900 That's right. Research. 553 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,979 I saw a 554 00:16:39,980 --> 00:16:42,739 few conservatives, Republicans, 555 00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:45,379 and even one conservative website 556 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:47,519 say this was 557 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:48,599 an unforced error. 558 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,119 He shouldn't be talking about 2020. 559 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:52,519 He needs to talk about the future 560 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,379 and what he's to do, and 561 00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:56,219 also to the 562 00:16:56,220 --> 00:16:58,079 surplus bill and his opposition 563 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,979 to that, a lot of people said that 564 00:16:59,980 --> 00:17:02,139 was another unforced 565 00:17:02,140 --> 00:17:04,118 error and you know 566 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,259 there's this race on to 567 00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:07,739 for every candidate to define 568 00:17:07,740 --> 00:17:09,358 themselves before they're defined by 569 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:10,879 the other parties so some 570 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:12,559 republicans think that Tiffany needs 571 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,599 to do a better job of that. 572 00:17:14,939 --> 00:17:16,799 Anya one thing that stood out to you 573 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,759 I remember when we were talking 574 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,879 about what went on at this forum is 575 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:20,880 you said 576 00:17:21,959 --> 00:17:23,779 He basically covered a lot of ground 577 00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:25,679 and said Very 578 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,358 little about the details would it be 579 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,739 that be an accurate summation of 580 00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:29,279 what she saw? 581 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,099 I think that's right. 582 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:31,939 And, you know, to be clear, it's 583 00:17:31,940 --> 00:17:33,859 not unusual for a politician in an 584 00:17:33,860 --> 00:17:35,659 election year to kind of go broad 585 00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:37,039 strokes, big picture, and not 586 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,019 necessarily settle on the details. 587 00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:40,339 But I think, again, it speaks to 588 00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:41,259 this thing that we've been talking 589 00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:43,099 about this whole show about how 590 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:44,659 do you kind of land a message 591 00:17:44,660 --> 00:17:46,199 without getting caught up in these 592 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,619 details? And I wonder to what 593 00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:49,639 extent, because he doesn't have to 594 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,179 distinguish himself in a primary, 595 00:17:51,180 --> 00:17:52,159 the way that the Democratic 596 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,039 candidates do, whether he just 597 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,139 kind of wants to 598 00:17:56,140 --> 00:17:57,719 appeal to people who just want. 599 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,239 A more conservative person in 600 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,199 office, people for 601 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,819 whom his sort of Northwoods 602 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:05,059 background is more appealing and 603 00:18:05,060 --> 00:18:07,019 is maybe relying on a level 604 00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:09,099 of infighting from the Democrats. 605 00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:10,259 And therefore he doesn't really need 606 00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:11,899 to make a case in that traditional 607 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:13,919 sense. He doesn't need to explain in 608 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,499 great detail how he would balance 609 00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:16,539 that budget. 610 00:18:16,540 --> 00:18:18,799 He can kind of go a little bit on 611 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,219 vibes and hope that that'll carry 612 00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:21,059 him through November. 613 00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:22,739 Maybe at a forum in Madison, he has 614 00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:23,519 that luxury. 615 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,119 I did check before we recorded 616 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,619 today, and he has a couple of 617 00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:28,999 campaign ads on YouTube, Zach. 618 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,919 Seven million views and four million 619 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:31,999 views, where he talks about 620 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,939 basically being a Wisconsin guy 621 00:18:33,940 --> 00:18:35,019 and a damn tender. 622 00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:36,559 It seems like that may reach more 623 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:37,269 people. 624 00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:38,649 And that is his background. 625 00:18:38,650 --> 00:18:39,809 He started out running a small 626 00:18:39,810 --> 00:18:41,749 business. He's tended the dam. 627 00:18:41,750 --> 00:18:42,789 And that's what he's going to run, 628 00:18:42,790 --> 00:18:44,529 is that folksy Northwoods attitude 629 00:18:44,530 --> 00:18:45,629 widespread. 630 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:47,029 The inside Wisconsin politics, 631 00:18:47,030 --> 00:18:48,529 that's the Madison math he's not 632 00:18:48,530 --> 00:18:49,530 worried about. 633 00:18:49,910 --> 00:18:50,949 Well, that's all the time we have 634 00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:51,749 for today. 635 00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:52,849 Thanks for joining us. 636 00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:54,289 This has been Inside Wisconsin 637 00:18:54,290 --> 00:18:55,269 Politics. 638 00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:56,469 Be sure to follow us on 639 00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:58,989 pbswisconsin.org, wpr.org 640 00:18:58,990 --> 00:19:00,889 YouTube, or wherever you get your 641 00:19:00,890 --> 00:19:01,890 podcasts. 642 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,099 I didn't realize I was trying to say 643 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:13,859 the title of the podcast at the end 644 00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:14,860 there.