1 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,139 Wisconsin's Democratic governor and 2 00:00:27,140 --> 00:00:28,519 Republican legislative leaders 3 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,559 negotiate a big deal on tax 4 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,359 cuts and school funding. 5 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:33,799 And it blows up in the Wisconsin 6 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:34,639 Senate. 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,019 What just happened? 8 00:00:36,020 --> 00:00:37,179 Let's talk about it. 9 00:00:37,180 --> 00:00:39,259 This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:44,939 I'm Sean Johnson, here with my 11 00:00:44,940 --> 00:00:46,879 colleagues, Zach Schultz and Rich 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:47,879 Kramer in Eau Claire. 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:48,880 Hey guys. Hello. 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,279 So we are going to have plenty 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,899 of time here to unpack the motives 16 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:56,939 of all the players in this drama 17 00:00:56,940 --> 00:00:58,599 that unfolded at the Capitol. 18 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,799 But first, let's start with 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,419 kind of what led to this for people 20 00:01:02,420 --> 00:01:03,859 who haven't paid attention to every 21 00:01:03,860 --> 00:01:05,879 twist and turn of this big 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,119 deal we've been calling it at the 23 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,139 capital. 24 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:09,999 Zach, what was in this thing that 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,499 was negotiated by Democratic 26 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:13,019 Governor Tony Evers and the 27 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:14,499 Republican legislative leaders? 28 00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:16,079 Well, the top line picture is it's 29 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,119 $1.8 billion in spending, most 30 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,099 of it one time only, looking at 31 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:21,939 the projected surplus that would be 32 00:01:21,940 --> 00:01:23,879 available for next year. 33 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,159 Of that, $300 million for 34 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,039 special education funding for public 35 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:29,219 schools. That's been a Democratic 36 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:31,358 priority for a long time. 37 00:01:31,359 --> 00:01:33,599 $350 million in 38 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,579 rebates or tax buy downs 39 00:01:35,580 --> 00:01:37,139 for property taxes that would go 40 00:01:37,140 --> 00:01:38,959 money going to the schools, but that 41 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:40,219 they would only use to reduce 42 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:42,479 property taxes, not new spending. 43 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:43,679 And then there were going to be 44 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,679 individual rebates for tax 45 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,539 filers, 300 per person or 600 46 00:01:47,540 --> 00:01:48,639 for a married couple. 47 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,459 And then we see a 48 00:01:50,460 --> 00:01:52,419 match to the federal plan for no 49 00:01:52,420 --> 00:01:54,239 taxes on tips and overtime. 50 00:01:55,300 --> 00:01:56,599 And Sean, a month ago, we asked, 51 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,999 what's the possibility that this 52 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,979 could actually happen? 53 00:01:58,980 --> 00:02:01,019 And my answer at the time was, well, 54 00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:02,099 this is the only time it could 55 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:03,639 happen because we have three leaders 56 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,479 that are all leaving the stage. 57 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,199 It's legacy time. 58 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,519 Well, what we didn't account for is 59 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,758 everyone else who's still running 60 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:11,359 for reelection or election in 61 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:12,519 Wisconsin. 62 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,999 Sinking this deal. 63 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,659 Three legacy leaders getting the 64 00:02:15,660 --> 00:02:17,039 compromise wasn't enough and to me 65 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,259 this is a political Rorschach test. 66 00:02:19,260 --> 00:02:21,439 How you view this particular deal 67 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,399 kind of matches your view on 68 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,800 politics. For some people and for a 69 00:02:24,801 --> 00:02:26,159 lot of ordinary people around the 70 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,639 state this was the an epitome of a 71 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:28,459 compromise. 72 00:02:28,460 --> 00:02:29,939 You get a little bit for one side, 73 00:02:29,940 --> 00:02:31,179 you get a little bit from the other 74 00:02:31,180 --> 00:02:33,259 side, everyone can come away maybe 75 00:02:33,260 --> 00:02:34,579 a little dissatisfied, maybe a 76 00:02:34,580 --> 00:02:35,559 little happy. 77 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,219 And money goes back to taxpayers at 78 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:39,139 a time when you're seeing the price 79 00:02:39,140 --> 00:02:40,699 of gas go through the roof just to 80 00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:42,379 fill your tank up. 81 00:02:42,380 --> 00:02:44,079 And as they're about to run for your 82 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,119 election, those are things that 83 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:45,939 normally you'd want to see 84 00:02:45,940 --> 00:02:47,239 politicians pass. 85 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:48,859 The other side of that test is 86 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:49,939 political purity. 87 00:02:49,940 --> 00:02:50,939 And there are a lot of people 88 00:02:50,940 --> 00:02:52,859 looking at this deal saying, this 89 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:54,319 isn't as good as I would like it to 90 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:55,979 be. And I think we can do better 91 00:02:55,980 --> 00:02:57,659 when we have more power next year. 92 00:02:59,079 --> 00:03:00,939 So it started out, 93 00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:03,099 the day, though, looked like 94 00:03:03,100 --> 00:03:04,579 your average special session day, 95 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:06,159 like a bill that might pass. 96 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,019 You have this big agreement by the 97 00:03:08,020 --> 00:03:10,239 leaders, by Governor Tony Evers, 98 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:11,919 the big Democrat and the big 99 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:12,920 Republicans. 100 00:03:13,620 --> 00:03:15,539 You had speeches to start this day, 101 00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:17,579 including by Assembly Speaker Robyn 102 00:03:17,580 --> 00:03:18,580 Boss. 103 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,639 We can show people that we listen 104 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:25,179 and that we are willing to act. 105 00:03:25,180 --> 00:03:27,019 And most importantly, that 106 00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:29,099 compromise in Wisconsin is not 107 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:30,559 a dead word. 108 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,679 Compromise is defined as getting 109 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,539 something that you want by giving 110 00:03:34,540 --> 00:03:36,599 up something that your partner 111 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,179 or your opponent wants. 112 00:03:38,180 --> 00:03:40,619 That is really what we did here. 113 00:03:40,620 --> 00:03:42,499 So that's when the waiting game kind 114 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:43,399 of began. 115 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:44,939 Rich, we were both watching the 116 00:03:44,940 --> 00:03:46,839 Senate for a long 117 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,879 time on Wednesday. 118 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,739 What was it like as 119 00:03:50,740 --> 00:03:51,740 the day sort of played out? 120 00:03:54,340 --> 00:03:57,219 It was a lot of hurry up and wait. 121 00:03:57,220 --> 00:03:59,199 So it's not unusual for the 122 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,159 Senate to set a start time 123 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,019 for their floor sessions, whether 124 00:04:03,020 --> 00:04:04,559 it be in a special session or a 125 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,679 regular session, and then 126 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:07,539 blow past that. 127 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:10,259 That's kind of unsurprising. 128 00:04:10,260 --> 00:04:12,219 But this time, we kept 129 00:04:12,220 --> 00:04:14,059 getting these notices that, oh, 130 00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:15,839 it's going to be at 3 o'clock. 131 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,259 Well, it's actually 5, 545. 132 00:04:18,260 --> 00:04:20,539 And then we just went with 133 00:04:20,540 --> 00:04:22,028 half hour increments. 134 00:04:22,029 --> 00:04:23,789 You know, six, six-thirty, seven, 135 00:04:23,790 --> 00:04:25,089 eight, eight. You know, and on and 136 00:04:25,090 --> 00:04:27,509 on, and they were, 137 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:29,849 I wanna say it was four hours 138 00:04:29,850 --> 00:04:32,189 that they, 139 00:04:32,190 --> 00:04:33,729 it took for them to go from the 140 00:04:33,730 --> 00:04:35,689 first notice, you know when the plan 141 00:04:35,690 --> 00:04:37,189 was to meet at 3 p.m. 142 00:04:37,190 --> 00:04:39,289 And when they actually met. 143 00:04:39,290 --> 00:04:42,029 And then once they got on the floor, 144 00:04:42,030 --> 00:04:42,989 you heard some of the same 145 00:04:42,990 --> 00:04:44,429 complaints from Democrats and 146 00:04:44,430 --> 00:04:46,269 Republicans about this bill that 147 00:04:46,270 --> 00:04:48,189 you heard in the assembly. 148 00:04:48,190 --> 00:04:50,109 The opponents said that they 149 00:04:50,110 --> 00:04:51,749 didn't like the process of how it 150 00:04:51,750 --> 00:04:53,809 was. Thrown together, 151 00:04:53,810 --> 00:04:54,949 Senate Democrats were out of the 152 00:04:54,950 --> 00:04:56,889 picture, et cetera, and 153 00:04:56,890 --> 00:04:58,649 then there were concerns about costs 154 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:00,789 and this being a projected budget 155 00:05:00,790 --> 00:05:02,449 surplus, et cetera, and how this 156 00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:04,429 could plunge us into a deficit in 157 00:05:04,430 --> 00:05:05,989 the coming budget cycle. 158 00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:07,809 Yeah, so that night we 159 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:09,409 had a very unusual scene kind of 160 00:05:09,410 --> 00:05:11,229 play out. The assembly met after 161 00:05:11,230 --> 00:05:12,609 waiting all day to see what the 162 00:05:12,610 --> 00:05:13,789 Senate was going to do. 163 00:05:13,790 --> 00:05:15,529 They passed this bill in short 164 00:05:15,530 --> 00:05:16,529 order. 165 00:05:16,530 --> 00:05:18,089 The Senate is meeting at the same 166 00:05:18,090 --> 00:05:20,089 time and it's clear that 167 00:05:20,090 --> 00:05:21,349 things are not going well there. 168 00:05:21,350 --> 00:05:23,049 You hear a speech from Senate 169 00:05:23,050 --> 00:05:24,569 Democratic minority leader Diane 170 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:26,109 Hesselmein, who made it clear she 171 00:05:26,110 --> 00:05:27,690 was not happy with this bill. 172 00:05:29,570 --> 00:05:31,009 This is a completely reckless 173 00:05:31,010 --> 00:05:33,169 proposal, stitched together 174 00:05:33,170 --> 00:05:35,409 in a backroom deal by 175 00:05:35,410 --> 00:05:36,949 three people who will not be running 176 00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:38,869 around and won't be here 177 00:05:38,870 --> 00:05:40,549 when the consequences of a 178 00:05:40,550 --> 00:05:42,329 multi-billion dollar deficit comes 179 00:05:42,330 --> 00:05:44,149 home to roost. 180 00:05:44,150 --> 00:05:45,969 It's simply something I 181 00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:46,970 can't support. 182 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,179 And this bill actually fails 183 00:05:50,180 --> 00:05:52,459 on a vote of 15 to 18. 184 00:05:52,460 --> 00:05:54,419 And I know people probably 185 00:05:54,420 --> 00:05:55,439 think, big deal. 186 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,279 Things pass, things fail. 187 00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:58,859 Bills don't actually get to the 188 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:01,159 point of failure hardly ever 189 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,759 in the state legislature. 190 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:03,939 If it doesn't have the votes, it 191 00:06:03,940 --> 00:06:04,939 does not come to the floor, 192 00:06:04,940 --> 00:06:06,179 especially something as big and 193 00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:08,359 dramatic as this. 194 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,239 And for the governor to 195 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:11,899 negotiate this and his Senate 196 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:13,779 Democrats stand unified 197 00:06:13,780 --> 00:06:15,639 against it to help kill it 198 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,489 with a few Republicans. 199 00:06:17,490 --> 00:06:19,169 Is something we do not see every 200 00:06:19,170 --> 00:06:20,089 day. 201 00:06:20,090 --> 00:06:21,909 Zach, what do you think was 202 00:06:21,910 --> 00:06:24,059 motivating Senate Democrats here? 203 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:25,419 There's two factors. 204 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:27,359 I think first is they were insulted, 205 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:28,919 they were left out of the loop. 206 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,259 That is huge, actually. 207 00:06:30,260 --> 00:06:32,219 Every single time over the past 208 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:34,199 few years that they've needed to 209 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:35,839 pass a big budget bill especially 210 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,759 with Republicans having a 211 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,939 smaller majority in the state 212 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:40,459 Senate. They've had two members that 213 00:06:40,460 --> 00:06:42,359 have voted against every bill. 214 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,279 That's Senators Nass and Capenga. 215 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,119 They've consistently said, we can't 216 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:47,559 support this extra spending, we're 217 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,079 voting no. That means in practice, 218 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,259 Republicans don't have a working 219 00:06:51,260 --> 00:06:52,799 majority when it comes to passing 220 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:53,979 that kind of legislation. 221 00:06:53,980 --> 00:06:55,959 They need Democratic votes. 222 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,359 Governor Evers knows that. 223 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,619 Senate Majority Lemahue knows that 224 00:06:58,620 --> 00:07:00,439 everyone knows they need at least a 225 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,659 couple of Democratic votes and 226 00:07:01,660 --> 00:07:02,899 probably more. 227 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:04,279 So the fact that they were not 228 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:05,999 consulted, did not have any input on 229 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,759 this bill and made it clear from the 230 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:08,799 very first time it was announced 231 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,299 that they were unhappy with it 232 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:11,879 showed. And I think that showed up 233 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,599 in that long pause in the assembly. 234 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,249 The assembly had the vote. 235 00:07:15,250 --> 00:07:16,789 It was they were going to wait and 236 00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:18,149 see if they had the votes in the 237 00:07:18,150 --> 00:07:19,189 Senate. 238 00:07:19,190 --> 00:07:20,729 And the second part of why Senate 239 00:07:20,730 --> 00:07:22,609 Democrats were not in line with 240 00:07:22,610 --> 00:07:24,829 this comes next fall. 241 00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:26,569 And that's with the re-election. 242 00:07:26,570 --> 00:07:27,829 They're, they are... 243 00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:29,849 Not quite certain but very confident 244 00:07:29,850 --> 00:07:30,789 that they're going to flip the 245 00:07:30,790 --> 00:07:32,309 majority in that chamber and that 246 00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:33,549 when they come to power in the next 247 00:07:33,550 --> 00:07:35,529 session they will not only have 248 00:07:35,530 --> 00:07:37,069 a say they will be the deciding 249 00:07:37,070 --> 00:07:39,129 factors and how any bills are 250 00:07:39,130 --> 00:07:40,749 passed and how budgets are passed. 251 00:07:40,750 --> 00:07:42,529 And so they can direct where that 252 00:07:42,530 --> 00:07:43,829 money goes and if they think they 253 00:07:43,830 --> 00:07:44,909 get lucky and there's a democratic 254 00:07:44,910 --> 00:07:46,489 governor and a democratic assembly 255 00:07:46,490 --> 00:07:47,889 then they're gonna say all this 256 00:07:47,890 --> 00:07:48,949 money will be available for for us 257 00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:50,669 to spend. In ways that we prefer 258 00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:52,429 instead of having to compromise, 259 00:07:52,430 --> 00:07:53,769 which is what has sunk every 260 00:07:53,770 --> 00:07:55,329 possibility of all these budget 261 00:07:55,330 --> 00:07:57,149 surplus deals since Tony Evers 262 00:07:57,150 --> 00:07:58,769 has been governor, the fact that the 263 00:07:58,770 --> 00:08:00,329 next election might bring better 264 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:02,109 outlook for each of the sides, and 265 00:08:02,110 --> 00:08:03,209 so they've decided not to 266 00:08:03,210 --> 00:08:04,009 compromise. 267 00:08:04,010 --> 00:08:05,209 And I think this was a clear cut 268 00:08:05,210 --> 00:08:07,469 case where circumstances 269 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:09,509 matter completely. 270 00:08:11,010 --> 00:08:12,889 If Tony Evers were running for 271 00:08:12,890 --> 00:08:14,689 election in November, and he said, 272 00:08:14,690 --> 00:08:16,609 this is my big bill, Democrats, 273 00:08:16,610 --> 00:08:19,269 this is what I want to run on, 274 00:08:19,270 --> 00:08:21,529 I mean, they would have voted yes. 275 00:08:21,530 --> 00:08:22,929 No, Republicans probably wouldn't 276 00:08:22,930 --> 00:08:24,169 have brought it up in that case, so 277 00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:27,029 it's a theoretical exercise. 278 00:08:27,030 --> 00:08:28,569 But Senate Democrats, I'm confident 279 00:08:28,570 --> 00:08:29,819 would have been with him. 280 00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:31,679 He is not on the ballot, though, 281 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,839 this November, as Diane Hesselbein 282 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:34,840 noted. 283 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,479 And Senate Democrats are poised 284 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,439 to, they think, take 285 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:40,519 that majority. 286 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:41,619 She has essentially been a 287 00:08:41,620 --> 00:08:42,899 co-majority leader on some of the 288 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:44,038 big bills that have come through the 289 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:46,099 Senate this year, from the budget to 290 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:47,059 gambling. 291 00:08:47,060 --> 00:08:48,919 And so to freeze them out 292 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,459 of talks like this, which is the way 293 00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:51,700 they viewed it, certainly, 294 00:08:53,020 --> 00:08:54,819 and to end up with a bill that was 295 00:08:54,820 --> 00:08:56,079 pretty Republican in nature, and 296 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,619 it's about a billion and a half in 297 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:59,779 tax cuts was. 298 00:08:59,780 --> 00:09:01,759 Not something that they 299 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:02,659 enjoyed, you know? 300 00:09:02,660 --> 00:09:03,799 Well, and don't forget there is 301 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,339 another factor when it comes to 302 00:09:05,340 --> 00:09:06,819 everyone looking at the next budget 303 00:09:06,820 --> 00:09:08,419 the next year And that is there's a 304 00:09:08,420 --> 00:09:09,639 lot of people who think we may be 305 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,379 looking into a recession Yeah So 306 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:13,339 most of this surplus is a 307 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:15,159 projection of what the economy is 308 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,679 going to bring in for tax revenues 309 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:18,499 If there's an economic downturn in 310 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:20,099 the next six months that money 311 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:21,879 disappears all by itself without 312 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:23,619 having been sent out So you send it 313 00:09:23,620 --> 00:09:25,359 out even though most of these is 314 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,259 one-time spending it may not be 315 00:09:27,260 --> 00:09:29,219 there next year Now they 316 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:30,499 say even in the worst of 317 00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:31,779 circumstances, at least the state 318 00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:32,999 will have a little bit money to 319 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,239 start the next year with. 320 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,859 So that is a legitimate concern 321 00:09:35,860 --> 00:09:37,139 considering where gas prices and 322 00:09:37,140 --> 00:09:38,839 grocery prices are right now and 323 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,979 with no end to a war in Iran, 324 00:09:40,980 --> 00:09:42,679 that the economy could shift and go 325 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:44,599 down and these tax revenues may not 326 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:45,600 materialize. 327 00:09:46,770 --> 00:09:48,129 The Senate Democrats don't have this 328 00:09:48,130 --> 00:09:49,749 power if Republicans just stick 329 00:09:49,750 --> 00:09:52,109 together and all their members vote 330 00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:54,089 for the bill negotiated by 331 00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:56,029 their leader, Devin Lemmy-Hugh, and 332 00:09:56,030 --> 00:09:57,049 Assembly Speaker Robin Vos. 333 00:09:57,050 --> 00:09:58,849 In fact, in the assembly, all the 334 00:09:58,850 --> 00:10:00,329 Republicans did stick together, and 335 00:10:00,330 --> 00:10:02,229 they voted for that bill. 336 00:10:02,230 --> 00:10:03,469 So what's going on in the Senate 337 00:10:03,470 --> 00:10:05,269 with a few Republicans there who 338 00:10:05,270 --> 00:10:07,189 decided, yeah, we're just not going 339 00:10:07,190 --> 00:10:08,190 to do this? 340 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,739 Well, what was surprising is that 341 00:10:11,740 --> 00:10:13,299 two of the three Republicans that 342 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:15,519 voted against this proposal, 343 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,019 they're not running for reelection. 344 00:10:17,020 --> 00:10:18,939 So maybe that made them feel freer 345 00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:20,419 to speak their mind. 346 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:22,339 But as Zach mentioned, 347 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:24,259 you've also got Senator Steve Noss 348 00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:26,659 is one of them and he's pretty Well 349 00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:28,959 known for voting against especially 350 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,639 spending in a large spending 351 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:31,640 packages 352 00:10:33,860 --> 00:10:35,759 It seems like Devin Lemahue 353 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,439 didn't have the sort of control over 354 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,259 his caucus that Robin Voss 355 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:40,839 did in the assembly. 356 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,039 That's been pretty obvious given 357 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:44,339 the past bills where you needed 358 00:10:44,340 --> 00:10:46,209 Democratic support 359 00:10:46,210 --> 00:10:49,079 to get them over the finish line. 360 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,379 But what's also been really 361 00:10:50,380 --> 00:10:52,259 interesting is seeing 362 00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:53,979 Republicans attacking Republicans 363 00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:55,000 after the fact. 364 00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:58,279 So in particular, Senator Van 365 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,119 Wengard, who 366 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,299 is retiring, He went 367 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:03,979 on social media afterwards. 368 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:05,859 After the bill failed and said it 369 00:11:05,860 --> 00:11:08,179 was a good deal for Wisconsin, but, 370 00:11:08,180 --> 00:11:10,319 you know, every Dem and Nass 371 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,359 and Kappinga and Rob 372 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,279 Hutton wanted to spend more 373 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:15,459 and keep more of your money. 374 00:11:15,460 --> 00:11:17,099 So you've got a Republican saying 375 00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:19,039 that Steve Nass wants 376 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,879 to keep your tax dollars from 377 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,779 you, which is pretty 378 00:11:22,780 --> 00:11:24,599 interesting in the grand 379 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:25,979 scheme of things. 380 00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:28,379 But you also had Democrats 381 00:11:28,380 --> 00:11:30,599 kind of good 382 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:31,819 riddance Tony Evers. 383 00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:33,868 I mean it's just really 384 00:11:33,869 --> 00:11:35,889 fascinating to see 385 00:11:35,890 --> 00:11:36,989 this breakdown. 386 00:11:36,990 --> 00:11:38,969 It's just unlike anything I've ever 387 00:11:38,970 --> 00:11:40,909 seen. And I wanted to ask both of 388 00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:42,829 you, Sean, how 389 00:11:42,830 --> 00:11:44,549 many times in your careers have you 390 00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:46,749 seen a bill pass, 391 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:47,749 you know, this kind of bill with 392 00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:49,109 this kind of buildup where you would 393 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:51,049 expect the votes have to be there 394 00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:52,929 before it gets to the floor to avoid 395 00:11:52,930 --> 00:11:54,209 embarrassment. 396 00:11:54,210 --> 00:11:55,609 How many times have you see it clear 397 00:11:55,610 --> 00:11:57,089 one chamber and then die in the 398 00:11:57,090 --> 00:11:58,090 Senate? 399 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,779 Rare. I thought of a couple. 400 00:12:00,780 --> 00:12:02,639 One, the vote 401 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,499 on state employee contracts 402 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:06,639 ahead of when 403 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,039 Scott Walker took office. 404 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,079 Another one that featured lame 405 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,259 ducks. It did. 406 00:12:10,260 --> 00:12:11,839 I mean, this weird stuff happens at 407 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,419 the end here when everybody's 408 00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:15,179 position has changed. 409 00:12:15,180 --> 00:12:17,279 Circumstances matter. 410 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,339 But you had the 411 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:20,919 assembly Democrats passed new 412 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,939 contracts for state employees. 413 00:12:22,940 --> 00:12:23,959 The thought was that that would 414 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,019 protect them when Scott Walker took 415 00:12:26,020 --> 00:12:28,149 office And Senate Democrats, 416 00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:30,329 led by Russ Decker and 417 00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:31,869 Senator Jeff Plaley at the time, 418 00:12:31,870 --> 00:12:33,329 voted no, and they failed. 419 00:12:33,330 --> 00:12:34,229 So it has happened. 420 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:35,789 Another one on ethanol mandate way 421 00:12:35,790 --> 00:12:37,649 back in like 2006, 422 00:12:37,650 --> 00:12:39,749 I think, but it is 423 00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:41,789 pretty sparse the way 424 00:12:41,790 --> 00:12:42,949 this stuff happens. 425 00:12:42,950 --> 00:12:44,689 But it does point out exactly what 426 00:12:44,690 --> 00:12:46,109 we're talking about. 427 00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:48,029 Once a politician is no longer 428 00:12:48,030 --> 00:12:49,349 running for reelection and they 429 00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:51,049 become a lame duck, they lose a lot 430 00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:51,949 of control. 431 00:12:51,950 --> 00:12:53,309 What's most impressive about all 432 00:12:53,310 --> 00:12:54,969 this is Robin Voss holding his 433 00:12:54,970 --> 00:12:56,809 entire caucus together. 434 00:12:56,810 --> 00:12:58,549 Even though he's going to be exiting 435 00:12:58,550 --> 00:13:00,589 stage right, he still 436 00:13:00,590 --> 00:13:01,849 has enough to keep his chamber 437 00:13:01,850 --> 00:13:02,850 together. 438 00:13:03,530 --> 00:13:05,109 Senator Lemahue really never had 439 00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:06,889 firm control over Republicans in the 440 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:07,989 Senate. That's always been called 441 00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:09,409 herding cats over there, so that's 442 00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:10,549 not terribly surprised. 443 00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:12,269 Kaepenga and Noss have made it quite 444 00:13:12,270 --> 00:13:13,270 clear. 445 00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:15,639 All of these people leaving office 446 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,239 really gives people a lot of freedom 447 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:18,699 to think about their own interests 448 00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:20,959 next year, completely aside 449 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,419 from what you would expect in the 450 00:13:22,420 --> 00:13:23,889 typical bill process. 451 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:25,789 Yeah, Steve Noss, I mean, has been 452 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:27,789 a thorn in the side to leadership 453 00:13:27,790 --> 00:13:29,969 for his entire career, basically, 454 00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:31,849 or at least the part that 455 00:13:31,850 --> 00:13:33,889 I've observed anyway. 456 00:13:33,890 --> 00:13:36,069 And can you imagine him on his last 457 00:13:36,070 --> 00:13:37,869 vote ever in the legislature saying, 458 00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:39,849 you know, I'll take one for 459 00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:41,829 the team for Robin Voss. 460 00:13:41,830 --> 00:13:43,289 I mean I think it's pretty 461 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:44,309 predictable that he was gonna be a 462 00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:45,709 no vote, but let's kind of unpack 463 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:47,589 where assembly Republicans were 464 00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:49,889 on this and why they decided we're 465 00:13:49,890 --> 00:13:52,309 gonna take this vote because I think 466 00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:54,849 By the time that both 467 00:13:54,850 --> 00:13:56,789 chambers got to voting at night, 468 00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:58,329 I bet you assembly Republicans knew 469 00:13:58,330 --> 00:13:59,609 darn well that this thing was gonna 470 00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:01,609 fail in the state Senate 471 00:14:01,610 --> 00:14:03,069 and they wanted to take this vote 472 00:14:03,070 --> 00:14:04,070 anyway. 473 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:06,109 Because they're all up for 474 00:14:06,110 --> 00:14:07,709 re-election this fall. 475 00:14:07,710 --> 00:14:09,589 Everyone that's not retiring has 476 00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:11,489 an absolute desire to go back to 477 00:14:11,490 --> 00:14:13,489 their constituents and say, I was 478 00:14:13,490 --> 00:14:15,549 willing to put $300 in your pocket. 479 00:14:15,550 --> 00:14:17,309 I was to give more to the schools. 480 00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:18,789 I was will to lower your property 481 00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:20,569 taxes. It's not my fault this 482 00:14:20,570 --> 00:14:22,429 failed. That does bring us around to 483 00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:23,929 some of the interesting calculations 484 00:14:23,930 --> 00:14:25,169 that we're looking at, especially on 485 00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:26,749 the Democratic side. 486 00:14:26,750 --> 00:14:28,009 So one of the people I was watching 487 00:14:28,010 --> 00:14:29,569 is Jeff Smith, who's a Democratic 488 00:14:29,570 --> 00:14:30,989 Senator. He's the assistant majority 489 00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:32,189 leader, so he's pretty high ranking 490 00:14:32,190 --> 00:14:33,229 in his caucus. 491 00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:34,729 He's gonna move up if they control 492 00:14:34,730 --> 00:14:35,889 the chamber. 493 00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:37,149 He voted no on this. 494 00:14:37,150 --> 00:14:38,849 His staffers tell me he was no the 495 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:40,229 entire time, mainly for the 496 00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:42,428 structural deficit concerns. 497 00:14:42,429 --> 00:14:44,289 But within his district, one of 498 00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:45,469 the assembly Democrats, Jody 499 00:14:45,470 --> 00:14:46,869 Emerson, voted yes. 500 00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:48,169 You go south from there into the 501 00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:49,069 cross. 502 00:14:49,070 --> 00:14:50,909 Brad Paff in the Senate voted no. 503 00:14:50,910 --> 00:14:52,669 Within his district Joe Billings and 504 00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:54,289 Steve Doyle, two assembly Democrats 505 00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:56,009 in competitive districts, both voted 506 00:14:56,010 --> 00:14:57,449 yes in the assembly. 507 00:14:57,450 --> 00:14:58,889 They understand what it's like to go 508 00:14:58,890 --> 00:15:00,309 back to the voters and have to say, 509 00:15:00,310 --> 00:15:02,439 oh no, I voted against this because 510 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:03,719 Well, we'll spend it better next 511 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,039 year when people are feeling the 512 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,059 pinch right now. 513 00:15:06,060 --> 00:15:06,939 There's a lot of political 514 00:15:06,940 --> 00:15:08,399 calculations that go into some of 515 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,079 these moves and looking unified as a 516 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:11,319 team does help. 517 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:12,799 We also saw another state Senate 518 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,759 race. Howard Marklein voted yes. 519 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,459 He's in a competitive district. 520 00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:17,919 Jenna Jacobson, the assembly Dem 521 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:19,579 who's running against him also voted 522 00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:21,119 yes, it would put her in a terrible 523 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,019 position. 524 00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:23,579 Easy marketing for Markleine if she 525 00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:25,079 voted no on this deal. 526 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,559 So some of this has to be political 527 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:27,560 maneuver. 528 00:15:28,590 --> 00:15:30,089 And, you know, I think you could 529 00:15:30,090 --> 00:15:31,509 look at this bill and say, 530 00:15:31,510 --> 00:15:33,429 potentially, it's a little 531 00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:34,489 gimmicky, right? You're going to, 532 00:15:34,490 --> 00:15:36,529 like, spend almost $900 533 00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:38,589 million just on these $300 checks, 534 00:15:38,590 --> 00:15:40,249 and it's going to be gone. 535 00:15:40,250 --> 00:15:42,189 And you have lawmakers on the record 536 00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:44,189 from both parties for bills 537 00:15:44,190 --> 00:15:45,689 like this in the past saying, oh, 538 00:15:45,690 --> 00:15:47,470 that's a gimmick, we can't do that. 539 00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:50,189 But do you want to be, which side of 540 00:15:50,190 --> 00:15:51,389 that gimmick do you wanna be on when 541 00:15:51,390 --> 00:15:53,389 you're doing doors in November and 542 00:15:53,390 --> 00:15:54,969 people are struggling with costs? 543 00:15:54,970 --> 00:15:56,829 It's a popular 544 00:15:56,830 --> 00:15:58,769 kind of bill, giving people money 545 00:15:58,770 --> 00:16:00,169 and seeing that you work together 546 00:16:00,170 --> 00:16:00,939 with the other side. 547 00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:02,319 So Sean, let's look at the outside 548 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,099 players in this, because Tom Tiffany 549 00:16:04,100 --> 00:16:05,779 was a big factor in this. 550 00:16:05,780 --> 00:16:07,639 I've seen some Republicans online 551 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:08,859 saying he would have been better off 552 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:10,299 being quiet, given how it played 553 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:12,039 out. Instead, he did come out 554 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,859 against this bill, and he was 555 00:16:13,860 --> 00:16:15,739 on the record talking to at least 556 00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:17,359 one state senator who did vote for 557 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,259 it, but weighing in on his 558 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:20,219 concerns about this bill. 559 00:16:20,220 --> 00:16:21,499 What do you make of that? 560 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:23,639 Yeah, from a practical 561 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:24,959 perspective, I get it. 562 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,919 From a political perspective, I do 563 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,739 not, I don't understand what he was 564 00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:30,539 doing. What I mean is from a 565 00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:32,099 practice perspective, if Tom Tiffany 566 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:34,399 thinks he's gonna be governor, then 567 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,359 I bet he wants to either have 568 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,019 that money in there so that he 569 00:16:38,020 --> 00:16:39,359 doesn't take office with the 570 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:40,199 deficit. 571 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,319 Or if the economy does okay, 572 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,119 maybe he wants come in as governor 573 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,219 and throw a special session 574 00:16:46,220 --> 00:16:48,299 for a Tom Tiffany tax 575 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:50,309 cut. Not a Tony Evers tax 576 00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:51,409 cut, you know, get things started 577 00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:52,769 off right. 578 00:16:52,770 --> 00:16:54,609 From a political perspective, I 579 00:16:54,610 --> 00:16:56,509 don't know why you come out against 580 00:16:56,510 --> 00:16:57,309 this. 581 00:16:57,310 --> 00:16:58,909 I just don't, it's like a 582 00:16:58,910 --> 00:17:01,669 theoretical exercise 583 00:17:01,670 --> 00:17:03,029 because you're not in there voting, 584 00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:05,129 but like why come out and against 585 00:17:05,130 --> 00:17:06,749 a big tax cut? 586 00:17:06,750 --> 00:17:08,848 And why attack Tony 587 00:17:08,849 --> 00:17:11,029 Ebers? Like he's not on the ballot. 588 00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:12,449 All these Democrats who are also 589 00:17:12,450 --> 00:17:13,949 against this bill might be running 590 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:15,049 against you in November. 591 00:17:16,090 --> 00:17:18,098 So how do you differentiate? 592 00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:20,639 You differentiate yourself here by 593 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,818 agreeing with them. 594 00:17:21,819 --> 00:17:23,419 I'm not sure. 595 00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:24,539 No, Rich, one question I had for you 596 00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:25,959 that we kind of traded notes on 597 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,979 throughout the night was, 598 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:29,719 will voters actually remember this? 599 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,799 Like will anybody be rewarded 600 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,800 or punished? 601 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,079 You know, that's a huge question. 602 00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:40,439 All of what you're saying makes 603 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,499 sense to me, 604 00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:43,919 someone who's been really following 605 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:44,999 this. 606 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,139 But I also remember being at 607 00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:48,939 a Supreme Court election night event 608 00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:50,439 and a fellow at the hotel not 609 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:51,739 knowing there was an election that 610 00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:53,639 day. So there's a part of me, 611 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,279 I'm always skeptical that this sort 612 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:56,999 of thing will stick in a voter's 613 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,759 mind. It's different, I guess, if 614 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,539 you're getting your door knocked 615 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:01,919 consistently and people are 616 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,279 reminding you of that or if you see 617 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,029 a lot of commercials, but. 618 00:18:05,030 --> 00:18:06,429 You know, in the grand scheme of 619 00:18:06,430 --> 00:18:08,749 things, a $300, $600 620 00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:10,869 check, that's a big deal, 621 00:18:10,870 --> 00:18:12,089 but you know, all the political 622 00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:13,409 infighting and everything like that, 623 00:18:13,410 --> 00:18:15,969 I just, I'm not sure if people will 624 00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:17,629 carry that all the way to November. 625 00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:19,449 There's a lot going out there 626 00:18:19,450 --> 00:18:21,329 right now in national 627 00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:22,489 and world politics. 628 00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:24,069 That's for sure. 629 00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:25,149 That's all the time we have for 630 00:18:25,150 --> 00:18:26,929 today. Thanks for joining us. 631 00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:28,589 This has been Inside Wisconsin 632 00:18:28,590 --> 00:18:29,649 Politics. 633 00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:31,249 Our colleague Anya Van Weggtendonk 634 00:18:31,250 --> 00:18:32,569 will be back next week. 635 00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:35,129 Be sure to follow us on wpr.org, 636 00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:37,869 pbswisconsin.org YouTube, 637 00:18:37,870 --> 00:18:39,089 or wherever you get your podcasts.