1 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,339 Democrats are getting more 2 00:00:36,340 --> 00:00:37,719 aggressive about jumping into 3 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:38,539 primaries. 4 00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:39,819 We look at a few examples from 5 00:00:39,820 --> 00:00:42,039 Congress to the state legislature, 6 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:43,759 plus two legal decisions that could 7 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,379 affect Wisconsin's political maps 8 00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:47,019 for years to come. 9 00:00:47,020 --> 00:00:49,220 This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. 10 00:00:53,850 --> 00:00:55,249 I'm Sean Johnson, here with my 11 00:00:55,250 --> 00:00:56,809 colleagues Zach Schultz, Anya Van 12 00:00:56,810 --> 00:00:58,789 Wachtendonk, and Rich Kramer in Eau 13 00:00:58,790 --> 00:00:59,790 Claire. Hey everyone. 14 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:03,839 So before we get started with some 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,458 specific examples here, I wanna 16 00:01:05,459 --> 00:01:07,419 start with why this kind of 17 00:01:07,420 --> 00:01:08,399 caught our attention. 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,279 And for me, it's because in 19 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,119 the very recent past, you had 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,059 Democrats and liberals very 21 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:17,199 wary about jumping into primaries. 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,689 What's changed, Zach? 23 00:01:18,690 --> 00:01:19,849 I think the biggest thing that's 24 00:01:19,850 --> 00:01:21,769 changed is the Democrats see more 25 00:01:21,770 --> 00:01:23,949 opportunity to win some of these. 26 00:01:23,950 --> 00:01:25,709 Over the past 16 years, basically 27 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:27,929 the Scott Walker era on when 28 00:01:27,930 --> 00:01:29,669 the maps didn't favor Wisconsin and 29 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:31,069 perhaps the political climate didn't 30 00:01:31,070 --> 00:01:32,989 favorite candidates statewide, there 31 00:01:32,990 --> 00:01:34,489 was a concern that a primary just 32 00:01:34,490 --> 00:01:36,309 took up too many resources that were 33 00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:38,489 limited, mainly money and 34 00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:40,349 time and the threat that if they 35 00:01:40,350 --> 00:01:41,949 went negative against each other, it 36 00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:43,129 really hurt their opportunity to 37 00:01:43,130 --> 00:01:45,089 wind statewide. Since Democrats 38 00:01:45,090 --> 00:01:46,689 have gotten on a roll and won a lot 39 00:01:46,690 --> 00:01:49,089 of these races for governor AG, 40 00:01:49,090 --> 00:01:50,469 State Supreme Court, and they've got 41 00:01:50,470 --> 00:01:52,129 better maps, they see more 42 00:01:52,130 --> 00:01:54,129 opportunity, and so there's more 43 00:01:54,130 --> 00:01:55,389 options for people to get in because 44 00:01:55,390 --> 00:01:56,949 the primary doesn't look quite as 45 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:57,919 devastating. 46 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,159 You know, for me, as I was thinking 47 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,019 about this, I almost 48 00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:03,019 feel like it's directly related 49 00:02:03,020 --> 00:02:05,139 to whatever the national political 50 00:02:05,140 --> 00:02:06,919 situation is at the time. 51 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,339 So we are right now in 52 00:02:09,340 --> 00:02:12,239 the Trump midterm. 53 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:13,859 Where were we a few years ago in the 54 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:15,419 Biden midterm? You had Democrats 55 00:02:15,420 --> 00:02:17,539 jumping out of a primary for Senate, 56 00:02:17,540 --> 00:02:19,599 clearing the way for Mandela Barnes. 57 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,099 Where were in the first Trump 58 00:02:21,100 --> 00:02:22,459 mid-term in 2018? 59 00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:24,159 You had about a dozen Democrats 60 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,219 running for governor that year and 61 00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:27,119 on and on, and on. 62 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,709 And I think. It's kind of a really 63 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:30,769 simple flowchart. 64 00:02:30,770 --> 00:02:32,069 Is it a midterm? 65 00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:33,889 Yes, is your president in the 66 00:02:33,890 --> 00:02:35,089 White House? 67 00:02:35,090 --> 00:02:36,549 No? Well, in that case, you're 68 00:02:36,550 --> 00:02:37,449 probably going to want to jump into 69 00:02:37,450 --> 00:02:39,369 a primary and give a chance 70 00:02:39,370 --> 00:02:40,669 for your party. 71 00:02:41,950 --> 00:02:43,089 Anil, let's jump into one of these 72 00:02:43,090 --> 00:02:45,089 specific examples this week. 73 00:02:46,090 --> 00:02:47,689 And I want to characterize this as 74 00:02:47,690 --> 00:02:49,789 the opportunity knocks kind 75 00:02:49,790 --> 00:02:51,929 of a Democratic primary in 76 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:53,789 the first congressional district 77 00:02:53,790 --> 00:02:55,649 where we have representative 78 00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:56,949 Brian Stile, a Republican. 79 00:02:57,950 --> 00:02:59,849 Is seen as a 80 00:02:59,850 --> 00:03:00,969 pretty strong candidate. 81 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:03,529 The district leans Republican. 82 00:03:03,530 --> 00:03:05,629 And yet this week we had a 83 00:03:05,630 --> 00:03:07,929 Democratic candidate say, hey, 84 00:03:07,930 --> 00:03:09,289 it's not too late for me to jump in. 85 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:10,179 Tell us about what happened. 86 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:11,019 Yeah. I mean, there have been 87 00:03:11,020 --> 00:03:12,199 several Democrats that have been 88 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,759 running for quite a while, but none 89 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:14,999 of them have really been a clear 90 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,139 front runner. None of them have 91 00:03:16,140 --> 00:03:17,339 raised a significant amount of 92 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:19,059 money. Brian Steyl, by contrast, is 93 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:20,759 a very good campaigner and a very 94 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,239 good fundraiser. He is quite a lot 95 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:23,459 in his war chest. 96 00:03:23,460 --> 00:03:24,819 And so there had been some rumblings 97 00:03:24,820 --> 00:03:26,259 that this alder person from 98 00:03:26,260 --> 00:03:27,699 Milwaukee was going to jump in and 99 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,299 he did, Peter Berjelis. 100 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:31,419 He is currently a sitting member of 101 00:03:31,420 --> 00:03:33,339 the Milwaukee Council. 102 00:03:33,340 --> 00:03:35,339 He does not live in the district. 103 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:36,799 And so him coming out, it's really 104 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,999 interesting because he's essentially 105 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,899 saying I am the person who can get 106 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:41,699 the national money that is required 107 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:42,699 to flip this district. 108 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:43,899 He's trying to make the argument 109 00:03:43,900 --> 00:03:45,399 that it is more flippable than 110 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,639 Democrats think. 111 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,619 It is considered of Wisconsin's 112 00:03:48,620 --> 00:03:50,819 kind of two-ish 113 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:52,699 congressional districts, 114 00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:54,519 the safer one for Republicans, but 115 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,159 he's saying if we can get money, we 116 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,608 can in the game. 117 00:03:57,609 --> 00:03:58,989 Rich, you've been following this 118 00:03:58,990 --> 00:04:00,809 district for a while now. 119 00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:02,689 Why would Peter Bergellas look at 120 00:04:02,690 --> 00:04:04,649 the field here and say, you know, 121 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:05,650 why not me? 122 00:04:07,170 --> 00:04:09,069 Well, exactly what Anya said. 123 00:04:10,290 --> 00:04:12,189 So Stile, here's an example of 124 00:04:12,190 --> 00:04:14,349 how good of a fundraiser he is. 125 00:04:14,350 --> 00:04:16,309 He's currently sitting on more than 126 00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:18,389 $5.5 million in 127 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:20,229 his campaign war chest. 128 00:04:20,230 --> 00:04:22,429 And during the first three months of 129 00:04:22,430 --> 00:04:24,409 the year, he raised 130 00:04:24,410 --> 00:04:26,289 more money than any, I mean, 131 00:04:26,290 --> 00:04:28,149 excuse me, he spent more money then 132 00:04:28,150 --> 00:04:30,189 any Democrat even raised. 133 00:04:30,190 --> 00:04:32,489 So maybe Jealous 134 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:33,490 is thinking, 135 00:04:34,450 --> 00:04:36,599 I'll get that Democratic money. 136 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,559 Et cetera, but to the point 137 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,599 that this is, this is an interesting 138 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,499 district, because on paper it is 139 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:44,439 competitive, but 140 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,979 Stiles has just been a powerhouse 141 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:48,219 and he's easily defeated 142 00:04:48,220 --> 00:04:49,999 every Democrat that has come up 143 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,079 against him. 144 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,039 So I don't know if this is 145 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,719 enough of a Democratic wavier 146 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,539 potentially that it could 147 00:04:56,540 --> 00:04:58,519 make it a little closer, but 148 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,379 it seems like Democrats 149 00:05:00,380 --> 00:05:02,179 think it's worth a shot. 150 00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:04,299 Zach, can somebody come in from 151 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:06,399 outside of a district and very 152 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:07,619 prominently outside of the district 153 00:05:07,620 --> 00:05:08,919 too. I mean, he holds elected office 154 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,379 outside the district. 155 00:05:10,380 --> 00:05:11,959 Can you come in and say, I wanna be 156 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,249 your congressman. 157 00:05:13,250 --> 00:05:14,689 Well, running outside the district 158 00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:16,649 is not uncommon at all in Wisconsin. 159 00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:17,869 You don't need to live in the 160 00:05:17,870 --> 00:05:19,009 district. You're only supposed to 161 00:05:19,010 --> 00:05:20,009 live there by the time you would 162 00:05:20,010 --> 00:05:20,889 take office. 163 00:05:20,890 --> 00:05:21,989 So he doesn't even have to set up 164 00:05:21,990 --> 00:05:23,309 residence there in order to campaign 165 00:05:23,310 --> 00:05:24,509 there, even if he does win the 166 00:05:24,510 --> 00:05:25,429 nomination. 167 00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:26,529 That's not uncommon. 168 00:05:26,530 --> 00:05:28,129 It is a matter of winning a primary 169 00:05:28,130 --> 00:05:30,109 if you don't live there, because you 170 00:05:30,110 --> 00:05:31,689 have to convince the voters in that 171 00:05:31,690 --> 00:05:33,289 district that he should be the 172 00:05:33,290 --> 00:05:34,649 Democrat to represent them against 173 00:05:34,650 --> 00:05:35,589 style in the fall. 174 00:05:35,590 --> 00:05:36,729 And that is a little bit of a 175 00:05:36,730 --> 00:05:38,569 tougher ask. That is him saying, 176 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:39,989 I'm the one that's different from 177 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:41,369 the rest of these that you haven't 178 00:05:41,370 --> 00:05:42,358 really. 179 00:05:42,359 --> 00:05:44,139 Coalesced around in the past, and 180 00:05:44,140 --> 00:05:46,139 this would represent more of 181 00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:47,299 trying to bring in national 182 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:48,719 attention, but it would require a 183 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,559 national wave to upset style in 184 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:51,439 this district. 185 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:52,479 When you look at district 186 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,659 congressional seats in Wisconsin, 187 00:05:54,660 --> 00:05:55,939 the national Dems didn't even invest 188 00:05:55,940 --> 00:05:57,359 into the third, which is a much 189 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,339 closer district in past races. 190 00:05:59,340 --> 00:06:00,779 They didn't come close to investing 191 00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:02,079 in the first, and so it would 192 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,279 acquire a completely different 193 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,099 landscape for national money 194 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:06,439 to really come in from the 195 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,419 Democratic Party to say we see the 196 00:06:08,420 --> 00:06:09,759 first is in play. 197 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,719 It could be a case of they just want 198 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,459 Brian Steele to spend his money and 199 00:06:13,460 --> 00:06:14,759 not have that sitting around for a 200 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:15,819 future election, too. 201 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:17,719 That makes a big difference. 202 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,179 Let's move on to another primary. 203 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:21,439 And since I'm naming stuff today, 204 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,739 I'm going to call this one the 205 00:06:22,740 --> 00:06:24,079 opportunity knocks. 206 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,499 No, we we did the opportunity nice 207 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:27,019 primary. I need to get my name 208 00:06:27,020 --> 00:06:27,919 straight if I'm gonna do this. 209 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,759 This is the don't tell me 210 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,819 what to do primary, an important 211 00:06:31,820 --> 00:06:34,639 distinction in Democratic primaries. 212 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,999 We've got a couple of examples here 213 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,559 today. Let's start with one in the 214 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,139 third congressional district. 215 00:06:41,100 --> 00:06:42,319 I've heard a lot about this district 216 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,739 because it's our most competitive 217 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:45,659 congressional district. 218 00:06:45,660 --> 00:06:46,979 Derek Van Orden is a Republican 219 00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:48,139 incumbent. 220 00:06:48,140 --> 00:06:49,899 I've a lot heard about Rebecca Cook, 221 00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:51,499 the Democratic challenger who has 222 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:53,299 outraised him recently and seems to 223 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:54,939 be getting a lot of attention. 224 00:06:54,940 --> 00:06:56,639 There is a primary there. 225 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:57,640 Who's running? 226 00:06:59,540 --> 00:07:01,519 So the primary is between Cook, 227 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,099 who's an Eau Claire Democrat, raised 228 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:05,339 on a dairy farm in 229 00:07:05,340 --> 00:07:06,340 the county, 230 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:09,779 and has done some 231 00:07:09,780 --> 00:07:11,219 political consulting work, 232 00:07:11,220 --> 00:07:13,099 fundraising work for Democrats in 233 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:14,899 years past, but now she's back. 234 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:16,659 She's really portraying herself as 235 00:07:16,660 --> 00:07:18,099 kind of of the district, 236 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,199 born and bred Wisconsin, et cetera. 237 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,139 Republicans are trying to 238 00:07:24,140 --> 00:07:25,919 focus the attention on her 239 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,639 consulting work. 240 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,639 The other Democrat is 241 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,139 longtime Eau Claire city council 242 00:07:31,140 --> 00:07:33,159 member, former council president 243 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,139 until just recently, Emily Berge 244 00:07:35,140 --> 00:07:36,539 of Eau Clare, and she 245 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,559 she's portraying herself as 246 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,719 the grassroots choice 247 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,659 in this race and 248 00:07:43,660 --> 00:07:45,579 National Democrats came 249 00:07:45,580 --> 00:07:48,119 in and started sending resources, 250 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:48,999 staff, etc. 251 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,059 Back in February to 252 00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:53,139 Cook's campaign and Berge 253 00:07:53,140 --> 00:07:55,279 said, well, that's pretty dirty, 254 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:56,399 you know. 255 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,359 She essentially said DC 256 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,479 shouldn't be deciding who is 257 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,339 the Democrat to face Van Orden. 258 00:08:02,340 --> 00:08:03,619 It should be the people of Eau 259 00:08:03,620 --> 00:08:05,539 Claire. And just anecdotally, 260 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:07,639 when I'm walking through the city, 261 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,079 I don't see a lot of cook signs. 262 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:10,119 In fact, I don't remember seeing 263 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,279 any, but I see a whole bunch of 264 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,119 Berge signs. 265 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,139 So this being one of the more, 266 00:08:16,140 --> 00:08:17,979 if not the most populous 267 00:08:17,980 --> 00:08:19,959 areas in the third district, 268 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,989 maybe that makes a difference, but. 269 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:23,909 In terms of resources, Cook is 270 00:08:23,910 --> 00:08:25,829 way, way, way ahead of 271 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:27,449 Berge in all the fundraising reports 272 00:08:27,450 --> 00:08:28,450 that I've seen. 273 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,459 Zach, do you get the sense that this 274 00:08:30,460 --> 00:08:32,819 is a competitive 275 00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:34,269 primary here? 276 00:08:34,270 --> 00:08:36,209 It could be, it really depends 277 00:08:36,210 --> 00:08:38,329 on how much the primary voters 278 00:08:38,330 --> 00:08:40,308 pay attention, and that's always the 279 00:08:40,309 --> 00:08:41,649 issue in some of these primaries, is 280 00:08:41,650 --> 00:08:43,209 name recognition makes a big deal. 281 00:08:43,210 --> 00:08:45,209 That's why the national party comes 282 00:08:45,210 --> 00:08:47,169 in and puts resources behind 283 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:48,989 Cook. It's not necessarily that they 284 00:08:48,990 --> 00:08:50,289 like her more, it's they think she 285 00:08:50,290 --> 00:08:51,649 has the better chance to win in the 286 00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:53,829 fall and get her moving now. 287 00:08:53,830 --> 00:08:55,409 It's the old mentality we talked 288 00:08:55,410 --> 00:08:56,309 about at the beginning of the show 289 00:08:56,310 --> 00:08:58,149 of why Democrats didn't do 290 00:08:58,150 --> 00:08:59,109 primaries in the past. 291 00:08:59,110 --> 00:09:00,289 It takes resources. 292 00:09:00,290 --> 00:09:01,209 It can get ugly. 293 00:09:01,210 --> 00:09:02,049 It can't get negative. 294 00:09:02,050 --> 00:09:03,849 It could. Hurt the candidate going 295 00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:05,149 into the fall. 296 00:09:05,150 --> 00:09:07,029 I ran into Bergeet when she 297 00:09:07,030 --> 00:09:08,789 was campaigning with Francesca Hong 298 00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:10,209 for governor in La Crosse. 299 00:09:10,210 --> 00:09:12,129 They were doing an event at the same 300 00:09:12,130 --> 00:09:12,989 bookstore. 301 00:09:12,990 --> 00:09:14,309 And it's not a coincidence that 302 00:09:14,310 --> 00:09:15,469 while we were talking to them, they 303 00:09:15,470 --> 00:09:16,749 were talking about going and seeing 304 00:09:16,750 --> 00:09:17,989 them at the next stop. 305 00:09:17,990 --> 00:09:20,089 And there is a kind of thematic 306 00:09:20,090 --> 00:09:22,029 fit with that campaign of 307 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:23,749 more grassroots, more from the 308 00:09:23,750 --> 00:09:25,669 bottom up and running against 309 00:09:25,670 --> 00:09:27,309 party types who tell us who our 310 00:09:27,310 --> 00:09:28,310 candidate should be. 311 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,259 Parties like to dictate sometimes 312 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:32,399 who the candidate can be, so they 313 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,919 can focus resources. 314 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,479 Sometimes that does run up against a 315 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,599 wall, which is why your title for 316 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,399 this, Don't Tell Me What To Do, does 317 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,779 fit because there are candidates who 318 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:41,099 are gonna say, no, let the people 319 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:41,979 decide. 320 00:09:41,980 --> 00:09:43,889 People have to pay attention though. 321 00:09:43,890 --> 00:09:45,609 All right, we've got another don't 322 00:09:45,610 --> 00:09:47,589 tell me what to do, primary Anya. 323 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:49,269 This is in one of the state Senate 324 00:09:49,270 --> 00:09:51,049 districts that we're watching that 325 00:09:51,050 --> 00:09:52,829 could determine control of the 326 00:09:52,830 --> 00:09:54,669 Wisconsin State Senate this year, 327 00:09:54,670 --> 00:09:57,349 the 17th State Senate district. 328 00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:58,909 Howard Mark Klein is the Republican 329 00:09:58,910 --> 00:10:00,849 incumbent and the 330 00:10:00,850 --> 00:10:02,309 Democratic party had been sending 331 00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:03,729 strong signals that they knew who 332 00:10:03,730 --> 00:10:06,309 they wanted to run for a while now. 333 00:10:06,310 --> 00:10:07,969 And yet there's a candidate who 334 00:10:07,970 --> 00:10:09,849 says, I want to run too, tell us 335 00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:10,199 about it. 336 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:11,640 Yeah, so Jenna Jacobson, who 337 00:10:11,641 --> 00:10:13,259 currently serves in the assembly, 338 00:10:13,260 --> 00:10:14,519 has been sort of the anointed 339 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,499 democratic choice to run against 340 00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:18,179 Howard Marklein for this district, 341 00:10:18,180 --> 00:10:19,939 which also has been redrawn in a way 342 00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:21,459 that could be more favorable for 343 00:10:21,460 --> 00:10:22,379 Democrats. 344 00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:23,879 So Markleins sort of on his heels in 345 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,879 that way. But then, yesterday 346 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,259 we got the announcement that Corrine 347 00:10:27,260 --> 00:10:29,099 Hendrickson, who if you have written 348 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,999 an article or read an article about 349 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,819 childcare advocacy, in the 350 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:34,139 last three years you have heard that 351 00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:35,619 name. She has been at the Capitol. 352 00:10:35,620 --> 00:10:37,320 She was a small business owner, a 353 00:10:37,321 --> 00:10:38,239 daycare owner. 354 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,039 In New Glarus, that was very much 355 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,999 her issue, and now she's running for 356 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,259 office. So a political newcomer, 357 00:10:44,260 --> 00:10:45,419 somebody with this kind of 358 00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:47,659 particular set of policy 359 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:49,739 expectations and preferences, 360 00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:51,299 challenging a fellow Democrat. 361 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:52,919 And so that is a, it caught our 362 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:54,599 attention for that reason that it's 363 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,599 a competitive district. 364 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,319 It's not safe for Democrats. 365 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,579 So here's somebody coming in and 366 00:10:58,580 --> 00:11:00,019 saying, I want to throw my hat in 367 00:11:00,020 --> 00:11:01,499 and I want to advocate for my 368 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:04,348 specific approach to politics. 369 00:11:04,349 --> 00:11:06,109 And, you know, I do feel like we 370 00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:07,629 have this debate about primaries, 371 00:11:07,630 --> 00:11:09,569 pretty much every single primary, 372 00:11:09,570 --> 00:11:11,389 about whether it's going to help or 373 00:11:11,390 --> 00:11:12,749 hurt the candidates. 374 00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:14,709 I think they are making a 375 00:11:14,710 --> 00:11:16,169 bet this year that they can afford 376 00:11:16,170 --> 00:11:17,609 to have those debates. 377 00:11:17,610 --> 00:11:19,429 And the argument for it helping them 378 00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:21,589 is that they are going to 379 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:23,249 kind of dominate the news cycle for 380 00:11:23,250 --> 00:11:24,589 a little while in August and get 381 00:11:24,590 --> 00:11:26,409 more attention than candidates 382 00:11:26,410 --> 00:11:28,129 that don't have a primary. 383 00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:29,989 Okay, one primary that is really big 384 00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:31,249 this year in our world, the 385 00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:32,309 Democratic primary for governor. 386 00:11:32,310 --> 00:11:33,549 We're not going to talk about today, 387 00:11:33,550 --> 00:11:35,469 but. If you had to name 388 00:11:35,470 --> 00:11:37,709 that one, anybody got any 389 00:11:37,710 --> 00:11:38,710 takers here? 390 00:11:39,890 --> 00:11:41,849 The why not primary? 391 00:11:41,850 --> 00:11:42,929 I think everyone and their mother is 392 00:11:42,930 --> 00:11:44,169 running for governor. 393 00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:44,330 There we go. 394 00:11:44,331 --> 00:11:45,179 There we go. We've got at least 395 00:11:45,180 --> 00:11:46,299 seven candidates running for 396 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:47,719 governor. Rich, you got any labels 397 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:48,720 for it? 398 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:50,920 Oh, and you stole mine. 399 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,879 I want to add, I want a small 400 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:55,759 amendment to yours. 401 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,799 The why not me, you know, 402 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:58,979 primaries, actually what I had 403 00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:00,079 thought about. So maybe you stole 404 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:00,899 both of ours. 405 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:02,139 It is kind of one of those years 406 00:12:02,140 --> 00:12:04,419 where you see a 407 00:12:04,420 --> 00:12:05,679 race that's kind of there for the 408 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:06,719 taking. 409 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:07,559 Why not something. 410 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,159 So, Sean, let's flip this on its 411 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,379 head for you because part of the 412 00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:12,219 idea behind having primaries 413 00:12:12,220 --> 00:12:13,819 in the past or not having them was 414 00:12:13,820 --> 00:12:15,559 fear of wasting resources, but the 415 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:17,459 other end of it was you can battle 416 00:12:17,460 --> 00:12:19,279 test and whoever comes through a 417 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,199 primary is a better candidate for 418 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,319 the general election. 419 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:23,999 So what's your take on a wide open 420 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,099 primary like this? 421 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:26,739 How can it help Democrats if there 422 00:12:26,740 --> 00:12:29,309 are battling this many people there? 423 00:12:29,310 --> 00:12:31,269 I think that there are plenty 424 00:12:31,270 --> 00:12:33,889 of examples in the recent past, 425 00:12:33,890 --> 00:12:35,589 particularly among Republicans, 426 00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:37,069 where you come out of a 427 00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:39,029 battle-tested primary and you are 428 00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:40,809 wounded, and it did not help them 429 00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:42,909 very much in the general election. 430 00:12:42,910 --> 00:12:44,789 I think in 2018, 431 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:46,189 Tony Evers came out of battle-test 432 00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:47,909 primary and was a little bit out of 433 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:49,709 money, so there is a risk to it, but 434 00:12:49,710 --> 00:12:52,289 it does also get 435 00:12:52,290 --> 00:12:53,809 attention, I guess is the thing that 436 00:12:53,810 --> 00:12:55,249 it does for sure. 437 00:12:55,250 --> 00:12:56,549 I think another piece of this, too, 438 00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:58,289 is that it's very easy to kind of 439 00:12:58,290 --> 00:13:00,069 present a unified front as a party 440 00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:01,569 when you're in the minority, because 441 00:13:01,570 --> 00:13:02,529 it doesn't really matter, right? 442 00:13:02,530 --> 00:13:03,649 You don't have power. 443 00:13:03,650 --> 00:13:04,829 And so we might know that kind of 444 00:13:04,830 --> 00:13:06,309 behind the scenes, the further left 445 00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:07,609 Democrats and the more centrist 446 00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:09,529 Democrats don't get along 447 00:13:09,530 --> 00:13:10,949 or disagree, but then they all come 448 00:13:10,950 --> 00:13:12,129 forward and kind of vote in 449 00:13:12,130 --> 00:13:13,569 alignment. And so now what we're 450 00:13:13,570 --> 00:13:14,629 seeing, because there's a little bit 451 00:13:14,630 --> 00:13:15,829 more of a sense that perhaps they 452 00:13:15,830 --> 00:13:17,349 could actually win things and gain 453 00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:18,729 power, there's also, I think, a 454 00:13:18,730 --> 00:13:20,029 little bit of a fight for what will 455 00:13:20,030 --> 00:13:21,529 the Democratic Party in Wisconsin 456 00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:23,409 look like. Vote like, will they be 457 00:13:23,410 --> 00:13:24,809 further left? Will it be more of a 458 00:13:24,810 --> 00:13:26,129 Hong kind of situation? 459 00:13:26,130 --> 00:13:27,329 Will they be more moderate, more 460 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:28,389 kind of aligned with national 461 00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:29,569 Democrats? And so I think we're 462 00:13:29,570 --> 00:13:30,789 seeing that fight kind of play out 463 00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:32,729 or tension play out in a lot of 464 00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:33,730 these primaries. 465 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,299 We have a bunch of court news to get 466 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:38,179 to here today, including 467 00:13:38,180 --> 00:13:39,319 another endorsement. 468 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,139 This one, technically not a 469 00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:42,959 Democratic primary, but you have 470 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,379 a couple of candidates running for 471 00:13:44,380 --> 00:13:46,379 the 2027 Supreme Court 472 00:13:46,380 --> 00:13:47,819 race already. 473 00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:48,659 Anya, how did this happen? 474 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:49,669 We just had a court race. 475 00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:50,689 We sure did. 476 00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:52,929 So two weeks after I think the 477 00:13:52,930 --> 00:13:54,909 court race was resolved, 478 00:13:54,910 --> 00:13:56,429 Lindsay Brunette threw in her hat 479 00:13:56,430 --> 00:13:58,249 and she is a former 480 00:13:58,250 --> 00:13:59,889 prosecutor, much like three of the 481 00:13:59,890 --> 00:14:00,909 current sitting liberals. 482 00:14:00,910 --> 00:14:02,809 And then a couple of days ago, Pedro 483 00:14:02,810 --> 00:14:04,649 Colon, who is a Milwaukee area 484 00:14:04,650 --> 00:14:05,949 judge, threw his hat in. 485 00:14:05,950 --> 00:14:07,609 He is also a liberal judge, but he 486 00:14:07,610 --> 00:14:09,729 comes from a lawmaking background. 487 00:14:09,730 --> 00:14:11,709 And so we're seeing two types 488 00:14:11,710 --> 00:14:13,749 of judicial candidates, 489 00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:15,689 one who more closely mirrors the 490 00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:17,129 Susan Crawford, Janet for to say 491 00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:18,369 what's kind of model of the last 492 00:14:18,370 --> 00:14:19,649 couple of years. 493 00:14:19,650 --> 00:14:21,409 A Democrat, but with a law and order 494 00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:23,049 background, and then one who more 495 00:14:23,050 --> 00:14:24,489 closely mirrors Chris Taylor with 496 00:14:24,490 --> 00:14:26,309 the lawmaker advocacy background, 497 00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:27,489 which again, I think shows that 498 00:14:27,490 --> 00:14:28,989 there's a little bit of this wanting 499 00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:30,569 to push-pull for what kind of 500 00:14:30,570 --> 00:14:32,429 liberal judge do we want 501 00:14:32,430 --> 00:14:33,869 because liberals have the court no 502 00:14:33,870 --> 00:14:35,469 matter what, they think that they 503 00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:36,709 probably have the election in the 504 00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:38,989 bag, and so again, in what direction 505 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:40,809 will the liberal justice land? 506 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:43,799 What are we calling this one? 507 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,279 The we, we're gonna win this one 508 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,599 anyway. Let's do what we want. 509 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,219 No, maybe I should let this one go 510 00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:49,219 if we don't have a good name. 511 00:14:49,220 --> 00:14:50,419 It's gotta be on a bumper sticker. 512 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,919 Rich, you talked to Pedro Colon 513 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,339 about why he was getting into the 514 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:56,139 race. 515 00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:57,619 And these introductory interviews 516 00:14:57,620 --> 00:14:59,479 are usually pretty boring. 517 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:00,979 They don't say too much. 518 00:15:00,980 --> 00:15:02,259 I feel like Pedro Colon told you 519 00:15:02,260 --> 00:15:03,260 some stuff. 520 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:05,899 Yeah he did. 521 00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:08,019 I asked you know what differentiates 522 00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:10,339 you from Judge Burnett and 523 00:15:10,340 --> 00:15:12,439 he said unfortunately it's 524 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,499 experience. She doesn't have the 525 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:16,559 substantive experience 526 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,499 that he does which includes 527 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,339 the decade or so in 528 00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:22,799 the legislature and his 529 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,299 years on the bench and the state 530 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:26,119 appeals court in Milwaukee. 531 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,899 So that surprised me. 532 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:29,939 I was not expecting him right 533 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:31,559 out of the gate to take a little 534 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,489 swipe at his competitor. 535 00:15:33,490 --> 00:15:35,649 And the Brunette campaign 536 00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:37,509 sent me a statement saying as 537 00:15:37,510 --> 00:15:38,509 much as well. 538 00:15:38,510 --> 00:15:40,429 They said, look, 539 00:15:40,430 --> 00:15:42,229 a number of justices have had the 540 00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:44,409 same amount of experience as 541 00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:46,329 Judge Brunett and have been elected 542 00:15:46,330 --> 00:15:47,849 to the state's highest court. 543 00:15:47,850 --> 00:15:49,029 So there's that. 544 00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:50,729 And they also said it's interesting 545 00:15:50,730 --> 00:15:53,049 that during 546 00:15:53,050 --> 00:15:55,009 his announcement, he attacked 547 00:15:55,010 --> 00:15:56,809 Judge Brunnett. 548 00:15:56,810 --> 00:15:58,109 So a little bit of fact. 549 00:15:58,110 --> 00:16:00,609 Yeah, and endorsements too, 550 00:16:00,610 --> 00:16:02,949 as you reported Anya, Justice-elect 551 00:16:02,950 --> 00:16:05,289 Chris Taylor has endorsed 552 00:16:05,290 --> 00:16:06,159 Pedro Colon. 553 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:06,879 Immediately. 554 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,719 Immediately. And then we also have 555 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,499 an endorsement from Congressman Mark 556 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,559 Pocan, endorsing Pedro Colon. 557 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,419 Mark Pocant and Pedro Colon 558 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:17,399 were like budget buddies 559 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,099 on the Joint Finance Committee in 560 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,219 2005. I can tell you that they 561 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:23,039 spent a lot of time together, 562 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,499 right, you know, arguing against 563 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:26,279 that Republican budget that year. 564 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,839 So you get to know each other in 565 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,839 politics, relationships can be 566 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,099 a big deal sometimes. 567 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:33,479 Well, what's interesting about this 568 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,379 race is we've got two on 569 00:16:35,380 --> 00:16:36,859 the liberal side that are in. 570 00:16:36,860 --> 00:16:38,679 I heard both those names on election 571 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,639 night. I had someone in a campaign 572 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,259 tell me, Judge Burnett's gonna 573 00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:44,159 announce, just watch your inbox, 574 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,379 that'll be coming out. That was on 575 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:47,379 election night, Judge Colon was 576 00:16:47,380 --> 00:16:48,699 at the election party. 577 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:50,219 I interviewed him and talked to him, 578 00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:51,659 and he was doing the, oh, we'll have 579 00:16:51,660 --> 00:16:52,779 to wait and see. 580 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:53,979 But his name had been floated for 581 00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:55,279 prior campaigns. So if we're looking 582 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,159 for labels, this is, it used to 583 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,119 be a wait your turn, one at a 584 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,919 time, I think there are liberal 585 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,339 candidates realizing... 586 00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:03,959 I might have to wait a long time to 587 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:04,879 wait my turn. 588 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:05,659 Why wait? 589 00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:06,449 Just get in there. 590 00:17:06,450 --> 00:17:08,229 Seven justices, 10-year terms. 591 00:17:08,230 --> 00:17:11,189 If you want to do it, better get in. 592 00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:12,769 Zach, we had a couple decisions this 593 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:14,588 week, court decisions on 594 00:17:14,589 --> 00:17:16,588 redistricting. One in state court, 595 00:17:16,589 --> 00:17:18,409 which I'll summarize a little 596 00:17:18,410 --> 00:17:20,689 bit too quickly here to say that 597 00:17:20,690 --> 00:17:22,588 a three-judge panel basically said, 598 00:17:22,589 --> 00:17:24,409 we are not gonna deal with the 599 00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:25,549 congressional map this year. 600 00:17:25,550 --> 00:17:27,649 Another big decision by 601 00:17:27,650 --> 00:17:29,409 the U.S. Supreme Court, which, you 602 00:17:29,410 --> 00:17:30,889 know, court watchers have said is 603 00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:32,849 going to gut the Voting Rights Act. 604 00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:34,710 What could that mean for Wisconsin? 605 00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:37,589 They're kind of tailed together a 606 00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:38,689 little bit. This is the second 607 00:17:38,690 --> 00:17:40,609 three-judge panel that has thrown 608 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:42,409 out challenges to our congressional 609 00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:43,469 lines. 610 00:17:43,470 --> 00:17:44,909 The Wisconsin Supreme Court has 611 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:46,309 repeatedly said, we don't want to 612 00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:47,689 handle this right now. 613 00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:49,209 The United States Supreme Court 614 00:17:49,210 --> 00:17:50,309 decision that went after the Voting 615 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:52,509 Rights Act has to do with minority 616 00:17:52,510 --> 00:17:53,989 majority districts, of which the 617 00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:55,329 fourth congressional, Gwen Moore's 618 00:17:55,330 --> 00:17:56,629 district in Wisconsin, is one of 619 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:58,449 those. So if lines are going to get 620 00:17:58,450 --> 00:17:59,669 redrawn, if the courts are going 621 00:17:59,670 --> 00:18:01,509 look at this, that could mean some 622 00:18:01,510 --> 00:18:03,589 of those lines getting re-shifted. 623 00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:04,789 In the future in the way that 624 00:18:04,790 --> 00:18:06,049 they're drawn without having to 625 00:18:06,050 --> 00:18:07,989 protect as much of that minority 626 00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:09,889 and majority district in Milwaukee. 627 00:18:09,890 --> 00:18:11,409 So there's a lot of implications, 628 00:18:11,410 --> 00:18:13,309 one of which is will this new 629 00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:14,409 makeup of the Wisconsin Supreme 630 00:18:14,410 --> 00:18:16,149 Court now take a look at these lines 631 00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:18,109 again, especially with new judgment 632 00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:19,649 from the United States Supreme 633 00:18:19,650 --> 00:18:20,159 Court. 634 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,199 Yeah. And it seems like 635 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,619 nationally I've seen a lot about how 636 00:18:23,620 --> 00:18:25,259 this could be a benefit to 637 00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:27,879 Republicans in southern states. 638 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,219 I think in Wisconsin it's an open 639 00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:30,759 question about which party would 640 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,079 benefit. 641 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,399 It does feel like it is potentially 642 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,279 detrimental though to minority 643 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,460 representation nationwide. 644 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:41,079 That's all the time we have for 645 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,199 today. Thanks for joining us. 646 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,699 This has been Inside Wisconsin 647 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:45,479 Politics. 648 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:46,579 Be sure to follow us on 649 00:18:46,580 --> 00:18:48,159 pbswisconsin.org. 650 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,359 Wpr.org, YouTube, 651 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:51,660 or wherever you get your podcasts.