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Wisconsin Republicans can be in a

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special session on gerrymandering

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and nothing really happens.

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But was it what is it?

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Sorry about that.

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Wisconsin Republicans convene a

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special session on gerrymandering

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and nothing really happens.

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But what does it mean that they kept

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the session open?

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Plus another key GOP senator

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retires and the race for governor

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picks up steam.

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This is Inside Wisconsin Politics.

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I'm Sean Johnson here with my

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colleagues Anya Van Wagtendonk, Zach

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Schultz and Rich Kramer in Eau

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Claire. Hey everyone!

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So Anya, I think there's actually a

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lot to kind of pick apart in terms

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of why Republicans did what

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they did with this session and what

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this issue means to the parties this

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year.

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But first, for people who have not

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experienced the

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drama of a special session, I think

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maybe they hear that word special

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and assume it is kind of

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a big deal. What's it actually like

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in the room where this happens?

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Yeah. I mean, so with regular

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sessions, I think something that not

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a lot of people know is that there

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are very few surprises during a

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regular session, right? If something

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is coming to the floor, that means

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the majority wants it there.

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Generally speaking, we sort of know

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what's going to happen.

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With a special session, and

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especially this time around where

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Republicans hadn't signaled in

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advance that they hated the idea,

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there was really an open question of

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exactly what was going to happen on

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that day.

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So going into it, I kind of needed

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to be in two places at once.

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I needed to be in both the Assembly

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and the Senate.

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And then thankfully assembly

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leadership sent out a message

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saying, we're going to keep this

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open, but that's

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so that we can have negotiations.

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So OK, so that signals that like

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maybe I don't need to be in the

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assembly. So we go over to the

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Senate.

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That's where all of the reporters

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are waiting to see what exactly is

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going to happen in the Senate and

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then there was just a lot of waiting

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around.

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Only Democrats were showing up.

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Finally, Democrats hold a press

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conference to kind of criticize

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their colleagues across the aisle

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saying they're not doing anything.

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Republican leaders show up.

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And say, we too are leaving the

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session open. And so the end result

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is that it was a whole lot of

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waiting around for nothing.

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But the nothing could become

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something if and when they

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reach sort of negotiations with

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the governor and then reconvene

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at some point in the future.

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I'll see you next time.

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And I can tell you because we did

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team coverage on this one in

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the assembly, it was a whole lot of

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milling about would be the way I'd

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describe it. I don't think they even

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had gavels this time, which feels

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like it's really kind of

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pretty chill in there.

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So okay, the special session was

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not all that dramatic, but

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the important thing is this

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thing is technically open.

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So Zach, I guess my question

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is, Why is that?

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Maybe it's just muscle memory, but I

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just am used to this Republican

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legislature being pretty

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comfortable telling this governor,

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don't tell us what to do.

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Well, there's only one of two

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reasons why to keep it open.

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One, because maybe they actually

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want to do something and be good

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to their word and negotiate and try

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and pass this constitutional

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amendment. Or two, the optics

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of keeping it open are important to

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their base and their voters

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because redistricting and

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gerrymandering is an important

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thing. And especially this time

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around, it's Republican voters who

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understand, oh, this is why we're

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potentially losing the Senate.

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We lost a bunch of race in the seat.

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It doesn't feel good to be on this

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end of it. And so maybe since

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both sides have felt the effects of

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when it's not in your favor,

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that perhaps there's an idea of,

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hey, let's come to a compromise and

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try and resolve this.

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Rich, what do you think?

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Is this a real session here?

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Could something actually happen?

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I suppose it could.

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There's been a lot of surprises in

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this session and the end of the last

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session for me.

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I started working at WPR in 2011

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about, and I'm

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used to seeing gavel in, gavel out,

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essentially saying thanks

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but no thanks from the Republicans

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saying that to Governor Tony Evers.

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But we've got these new state

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legislative maps.

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Control of the Senate is a

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big question mark after the November

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election.

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So they're just acting differently.

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What it means, I don't know.

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What happens, I really

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don't now.

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Coming back to the optics that you

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mentioned there, I feel like that is

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probably a big factor,

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whatever ends up being decided here.

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Just thinking back to 2024, which

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was the first year that we had

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elections under these new, more

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competitive legislative maps.

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And I get to edit a bunch of stories

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from reporters around the state.

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And I swear the number one thing I

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heard in every story from these

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candidates in these contested

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districts, these 50-50 districts

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was, Voters want

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candidates who will work across the

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aisle and not, you know, get into

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these fights in Madison, Wisconsin.

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I'm trying to do what's best for

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those candidates right now.

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Why not keep it open, you know, why

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not keep that an option

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for them to at least talk about?

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Anya, did you get the sense that the

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governor kind of saw

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that too with the statement that he

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put out after this session?

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It was pretty.

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Get going, you know, get yourselves

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in gear here.

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The statement that said there is

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actually nothing to negotiate while

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we are wondering whether he and

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Republicans are in the middle of

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negotiations around this language.

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Yeah, it does kind of raise the

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question of what those negotiations

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will look like and to what extent

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this is about sort of a messaging

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war going into this election year.

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One of the things that he also said

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in that statement was, you know,

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lawmakers will have to go on the

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record about their feeling about

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gerrymandering. And so if they

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don't, if they do not hold this

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session, if don't go to the floor,

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that is a statement.

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And so really trying to, again,

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kind of put the onus on.

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Republicans who are, especially in

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the Senate, quite vulnerable right

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now to make the point to their

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voters where they stand on this

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issue.

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I wanna play the skeptic here for

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one more minute here as to why they

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might not wanna do this.

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This is a Republican legislature.

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We've been talking about how the

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Supreme Court has this liberal

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majority that could be there for

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years.

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The resolution that the governor is

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proposing just says basically,

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districts shall not provide a

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disproportionate advantage.

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Partisan gerrymandering is

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prohibited.

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It's pretty thin.

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Who's gonna interpret that if they

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passed it?

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Well, there's only two ways to

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interpret it. One is they actually

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negotiate state law

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that gives a definition for what

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that means. That could be the

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negotiations happening as a parallel

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bill if that was actually going to

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be resolved through the legislature

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and the governor, but otherwise it's

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going to the Supreme Court.

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And ultimately, no matter what gets

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passed, it'll be the Supreme Court

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because these would be added to the

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Wisconsin Constitution.

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This is not just a law, this would

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be a constitutional amendment, and

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it would create this big language

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that doesn't have definitions so far

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in state law.

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And that really would be a liberal

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supreme court, more than likely,

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coming back to say, well, this is

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what we determined to be partisan

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gerrymandering, and this is we think

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is an advantage for

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partisans.

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Rich, what happens when you invite

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a court to start talking about

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statistics and mathematics?

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All uh...

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You know like a three-year court

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trial and i'm exaggerating but

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what also happens is the courts

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have generally not wanted to touch

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this uh...

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This claim this partisan

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gerrymandering claim from this u

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s supreme court to the wisconsin

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supreme court they've just wanted to

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avoid it and if we look back to

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when the legislative maps

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passed by republicans in twenty

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eleven were struck down They didn't

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do it, they didn't take up the

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partisan gerrymandering claim.

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They got around that by looking at

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contiguity of districts, whether or

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not one district has a piece in

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another. So that was,

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in a way, a technicality.

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They did get to the same place

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that the plaintiffs wanted, which

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was new maps, but

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it took a bit of a roundabout way to

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get there.

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Okay, before we move on from this,

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can we just kind of explore the

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possibility that maybe there would

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be a scenario where Republicans

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really would look at the

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situation and say, hey, let's

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pass this. Let's make a deal with

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the governor. Let's say it's

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November after the election.

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How might that play out?

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I think the biggest variable is who

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wins in November because remember

285
00:08:37,130 --> 00:08:38,548
constitutional amendments need two

286
00:08:38,549 --> 00:08:40,288
consecutive sessions.

287
00:08:40,289 --> 00:08:42,489
So this legislature can

288
00:08:42,490 --> 00:08:44,409
pass it all the way through

289
00:08:44,410 --> 00:08:45,729
December 31st.

290
00:08:45,730 --> 00:08:47,549
But then the next legislature, which

291
00:08:47,550 --> 00:08:49,169
will be made up in November

292
00:08:49,170 --> 00:08:50,509
elections, will determine whether it

293
00:08:50,510 --> 00:08:51,629
gets passed again.

294
00:08:51,630 --> 00:08:53,309
And so that's the key element there.

295
00:08:53,310 --> 00:08:55,049
Is there a scenario where the

296
00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:56,989
winners in the fall indicate

297
00:08:56,990 --> 00:08:58,509
we would like to actually pass this

298
00:08:58,510 --> 00:08:59,789
and so there's incentive to do it in

299
00:08:59,790 --> 00:09:00,790
a lame duck?

300
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,619
If they don't have the majority,

301
00:09:03,620 --> 00:09:05,059
maybe they say this is their best

302
00:09:05,060 --> 00:09:06,459
outcome. Possibly.

303
00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:07,239
Okay.

304
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,419
Well, we've already seen the

305
00:09:09,420 --> 00:09:11,659
current map kind of having an

306
00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:14,419
effect on the upcoming races here,

307
00:09:14,420 --> 00:09:15,539
especially in the state Senate,

308
00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:17,459
where we know majority control

309
00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:19,599
is gonna hinge on who wins

310
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,259
four state Senate seats.

311
00:09:22,260 --> 00:09:23,879
Rich, you're sitting in one of those

312
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,659
districts right now, I believe, and

313
00:09:25,660 --> 00:09:27,019
there was some news there this week.

314
00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:28,020
What happened?

315
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,659
Well first let me take it on a tour

316
00:09:30,660 --> 00:09:32,699
of the thirty first senate district

317
00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:33,619
uh...

318
00:09:33,620 --> 00:09:35,959
So what happened was one

319
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,839
of the republicans in a race

320
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,939
uh... For the thirty-first or the

321
00:09:39,940 --> 00:09:41,859
republican in the race for the 31st

322
00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:44,059
senate district announced that he's

323
00:09:44,060 --> 00:09:45,979
dropping out he's not going to

324
00:09:45,980 --> 00:09:47,359
run uh...

325
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,139
Against democrat jeff smith so this

326
00:09:49,140 --> 00:09:51,359
was senator uh...

327
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,559
Jesse james and He

328
00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,160
was in a different district, but

329
00:09:55,161 --> 00:09:57,559
because of the the map redrawing

330
00:09:57,560 --> 00:09:58,960
he was going to have to face.

331
00:10:01,710 --> 00:10:03,449
Two incumbents, but now you've got

332
00:10:03,450 --> 00:10:04,669
one incumbent. You've got the

333
00:10:04,670 --> 00:10:06,629
Democrat in the race who's already

334
00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:08,029
represented the district, even

335
00:10:08,030 --> 00:10:10,149
though it's changed a little bit.

336
00:10:10,150 --> 00:10:12,149
So big picture, when the

337
00:10:12,150 --> 00:10:14,369
maps were redrawn, there's

338
00:10:14,370 --> 00:10:16,449
four Senate districts that

339
00:10:16,450 --> 00:10:18,649
are deemed competitive, that it's

340
00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:20,469
really kind of a coin flip or just

341
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:21,648
about.

342
00:10:21,649 --> 00:10:24,849
And we've seen retirements

343
00:10:24,850 --> 00:10:26,849
from three of the Republicans

344
00:10:26,850 --> 00:10:28,249
in four of those districts.

345
00:10:28,250 --> 00:10:30,209
And you

346
00:10:30,210 --> 00:10:32,069
know that in in of itself is

347
00:10:32,070 --> 00:10:33,769
a big signal for how people are

348
00:10:33,770 --> 00:10:36,409
feeling about the fall election

349
00:10:36,410 --> 00:10:38,289
uh... So i guess

350
00:10:38,290 --> 00:10:39,709
in a way it it complicates

351
00:10:39,710 --> 00:10:41,529
republicans chances

352
00:10:41,530 --> 00:10:43,529
of holding the senate majority

353
00:10:43,530 --> 00:10:45,449
and definitely give some

354
00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:46,949
fuel to democrats who are getting

355
00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:48,989
pretty excited about november

356
00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:51,489
So we have elections that

357
00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:52,609
are gonna have to take place before

358
00:10:52,610 --> 00:10:53,509
we get the answers to these

359
00:10:53,510 --> 00:10:55,509
questions, but Anya, I would suspect

360
00:10:55,510 --> 00:10:56,989
that Senate Republicans would have

361
00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:59,129
preferred to run these races in

362
00:10:59,130 --> 00:11:01,229
these, you know, three of these four

363
00:11:01,230 --> 00:11:03,529
key seats with Senators

364
00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:05,529
Hutton, with Senator

365
00:11:05,530 --> 00:11:08,069
James, with Senator Wengard.

366
00:11:08,070 --> 00:11:09,889
You know, what position are they

367
00:11:09,890 --> 00:11:10,589
in now?

368
00:11:10,590 --> 00:11:11,689
I mean, it's interesting, like,

369
00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:13,609
there's a mix of reasons why these

370
00:11:13,610 --> 00:11:14,809
lawmakers have said that they are

371
00:11:14,810 --> 00:11:16,629
stepping down again, as Rich just

372
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:18,429
alluded to, Democrats are trying to

373
00:11:18,430 --> 00:11:19,589
spin this as, you know, they're kind

374
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:20,769
of running scared.

375
00:11:20,770 --> 00:11:22,649
But it raises sort of the

376
00:11:22,650 --> 00:11:24,489
question of who will then run in

377
00:11:24,490 --> 00:11:25,509
their spot.

378
00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:26,449
So Jesse James is a really

379
00:11:26,450 --> 00:11:28,089
interesting example.

380
00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:30,209
He has worked quite a bit across

381
00:11:30,210 --> 00:11:31,489
the aisle. He's been a real kind of

382
00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:33,249
leader on criminal justice issues.

383
00:11:33,250 --> 00:11:34,469
One of my favorite sort of fun facts

384
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:35,869
is that he and Madison Democrat

385
00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:37,549
Sheila Stubbs are like best friends

386
00:11:37,550 --> 00:11:38,909
and they do a lot of work together.

387
00:11:38,910 --> 00:11:40,629
He's done a lot on mental health.

388
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:42,529
And so he is a really different

389
00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:44,069
kind of Republican than you might

390
00:11:44,070 --> 00:11:45,909
see in, let's say,

391
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:47,149
suburban Milwaukee or something like

392
00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:48,849
this. And so the question is who

393
00:11:48,850 --> 00:11:50,329
then comes out?

394
00:11:50,330 --> 00:11:51,229
I think Zach has made this point

395
00:11:51,230 --> 00:11:53,069
before that when you're in

396
00:11:53,070 --> 00:11:54,349
the minority and when you are kind

397
00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:56,889
of pushing up against a

398
00:11:56,890 --> 00:11:58,849
less likely scenario,

399
00:11:58,850 --> 00:12:00,709
more sort of fringe candidates or

400
00:12:00,710 --> 00:12:02,169
people further to the left or the

401
00:12:02,170 --> 00:12:03,689
right tend to be the ones who come

402
00:12:03,690 --> 00:12:04,889
forward. And so there will be a

403
00:12:04,890 --> 00:12:06,249
really interesting question to see

404
00:12:06,250 --> 00:12:07,709
who is entering these races in

405
00:12:07,710 --> 00:12:09,349
November and what that does for

406
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:11,529
who's wanting to vote in November.

407
00:12:11,530 --> 00:12:13,109
We already have our first dancer in

408
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:15,089
this particular race, the first

409
00:12:15,090 --> 00:12:16,149
Republican to announce they're gonna

410
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,369
run.

411
00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:19,449
Her middle name is Maga Dance.

412
00:12:19,450 --> 00:12:20,969
And she put that on all of her

413
00:12:20,970 --> 00:12:22,309
campaign signs two years ago when

414
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:23,649
she ran and lost in an assembly

415
00:12:23,650 --> 00:12:24,569
race.

416
00:12:24,570 --> 00:12:26,189
And you cannot connect yourself

417
00:12:26,190 --> 00:12:27,609
literally more closely by putting

418
00:12:27,610 --> 00:12:29,589
your name and making it close to

419
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:31,229
Trump's Maga movement.

420
00:12:31,230 --> 00:12:33,009
And that is who is running in that

421
00:12:33,010 --> 00:12:34,709
Republican district, which is now

422
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:36,749
drawn to be Democrat, has a

423
00:12:36,750 --> 00:12:37,789
Democrat incumbent.

424
00:12:37,790 --> 00:12:39,309
And as we've talked about over and

425
00:12:39,310 --> 00:12:41,169
over on this show, You

426
00:12:41,170 --> 00:12:43,009
don't have to look any more

427
00:12:43,010 --> 00:12:44,609
past what the candidates do.

428
00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:46,209
And when they are not running, that

429
00:12:46,210 --> 00:12:47,449
tells you they know the environment

430
00:12:47,450 --> 00:12:48,329
they're up against.

431
00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:49,169
Every one of them will have their

432
00:12:49,170 --> 00:12:50,789
own individual story.

433
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:52,649
But the larger picture gives us a

434
00:12:52,650 --> 00:12:54,329
pretty clear roadmap of what

435
00:12:54,330 --> 00:12:56,369
Republicans think of their odds in

436
00:12:56,370 --> 00:12:57,689
the Senate specifically.

437
00:12:57,690 --> 00:12:59,329
But to go back to Robin Voss holding

438
00:12:59,330 --> 00:13:01,249
the assembly for all those years,

439
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:02,569
we saw in a number of elections in

440
00:13:02,570 --> 00:13:04,569
18 and in 22 where top

441
00:13:04,570 --> 00:13:06,129
of the ballot, Tammy Baldwin or Tony

442
00:13:06,130 --> 00:13:07,649
Evers would win some of those

443
00:13:07,650 --> 00:13:09,228
Republican assembly seats.

444
00:13:09,229 --> 00:13:10,629
And Republicans down-ballot won

445
00:13:10,630 --> 00:13:12,029
them, and that in part was because

446
00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:13,869
incumbents, name recognition,

447
00:13:13,870 --> 00:13:15,469
fundraising ability, and when you

448
00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:17,189
have people drop out, you lose all

449
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:18,769
of that. You don't have the name,

450
00:13:18,770 --> 00:13:20,009
you don't the person that knows how

451
00:13:20,010 --> 00:13:21,449
to knock the doors, that has the

452
00:13:21,450 --> 00:13:22,469
community connections, and they

453
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:23,789
don't raise as much money.

454
00:13:23,790 --> 00:13:24,609
What they really do is put them in a

455
00:13:24,610 --> 00:13:25,610
big hole.

456
00:13:26,420 --> 00:13:28,359
I guess against that backdrop,

457
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,359
you have these signals being sent by

458
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,339
Republicans dropping out of these

459
00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:34,179
races. You have the Supreme

460
00:13:34,180 --> 00:13:35,999
Court blowout of a couple

461
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,159
of a week ago, I guess now.

462
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,259
It's not at this moment looking

463
00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:42,259
great for them.

464
00:13:42,260 --> 00:13:44,179
So why would Republican

465
00:13:44,180 --> 00:13:45,759
Congressman Tom Tiffany, the

466
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,739
candidate for governor, pick now

467
00:13:47,740 --> 00:13:49,959
to come with a seven-figure add-by

468
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,109
in the governor's race.

469
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:53,109
He's trying to reset the landscape,

470
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:54,929
absolutely. This is the perfect time

471
00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:56,749
to reframe it coming out of

472
00:13:56,750 --> 00:13:58,569
that Supreme Court race and say

473
00:13:58,570 --> 00:14:00,229
we've got four months until the

474
00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:01,649
August primary and then a few months

475
00:14:01,650 --> 00:14:03,589
after that into November, and

476
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:05,509
he is the lone Republican out there.

477
00:14:05,510 --> 00:14:07,089
So it's a positive ad.

478
00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:08,709
If you watch the ad, it's not

479
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:09,529
hitting on anyone.

480
00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:11,189
It's talking about where his values

481
00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:12,709
and where he grew up and on a dairy

482
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:14,329
farm and what he's done for his

483
00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:15,689
experience and how much he loves the

484
00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:17,669
state. Those are all things that

485
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:19,269
play really well statewide.

486
00:14:19,270 --> 00:14:20,889
And when he has to boost his name

487
00:14:20,890 --> 00:14:21,969
recognition, if you look at the

488
00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:23,909
polling, it's still 65% of

489
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:24,809
Republicans weren't sure.

490
00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:26,009
And he was really the only major

491
00:14:26,010 --> 00:14:27,029
candidate left.

492
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:28,849
So he has win his base and

493
00:14:28,850 --> 00:14:30,169
there's room for moderates and

494
00:14:30,170 --> 00:14:31,749
independents, who especially looking

495
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:33,589
at that national landscape may

496
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:35,229
say, well, if there's gonna be

497
00:14:35,230 --> 00:14:36,789
Democrats in one chamber, well who's

498
00:14:36,790 --> 00:14:37,869
gonna run the state?

499
00:14:37,870 --> 00:14:39,569
He has an opportunity to reset his

500
00:14:39,570 --> 00:14:40,869
agenda, give himself a little

501
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:42,549
distance from Trump, whose name

502
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:44,349
right now is not very popular in

503
00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:45,949
Wisconsin among independents young

504
00:14:45,950 --> 00:14:47,619
people and a lot of other groups.

505
00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:49,539
So this is a time for him to

506
00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:51,439
own the stage by himself while the

507
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,239
Democrats don't have money to go on

508
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,999
the air in a seven-way primer.

509
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,259
A rear window to run positive ads.

510
00:14:57,260 --> 00:14:59,159
We know he likes old fashions

511
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,219
and the Packers and

512
00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:03,459
all this cliche Wisconsin

513
00:15:03,460 --> 00:15:05,399
stuff he says about himself.

514
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,659
Rich, there was another message in

515
00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:08,539
there in the Tom Tiffany ad that

516
00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:09,540
caught your eye.

517
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:12,169
Yeah, there was.

518
00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:13,989
He basically was saying that he'd

519
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:16,109
fight against Wall Street buying

520
00:15:16,110 --> 00:15:18,609
up residential homes and

521
00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:20,709
push back against big tech

522
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:22,729
bulldozing farmland for data

523
00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:23,569
centers.

524
00:15:23,570 --> 00:15:25,449
Those are talking points that

525
00:15:25,450 --> 00:15:27,289
are more akin to something you'd

526
00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:29,309
hear out of Democrats in recent

527
00:15:29,310 --> 00:15:30,309
years.

528
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:32,049
So that is really interesting.

529
00:15:32,050 --> 00:15:34,349
And to pivot off of what

530
00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:36,349
Zach was saying, Tiffany's trying

531
00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:38,209
to define himself before one of

532
00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:40,809
the Democrats defined him as.

533
00:15:40,810 --> 00:15:43,109
Or they have already,

534
00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:45,109
but until the whole connection

535
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:47,129
with President Trump sticks

536
00:15:47,130 --> 00:15:48,589
more. So he's getting out ahead of

537
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:50,529
it. And also I've seen a lot of

538
00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:53,149
conservatives on social media say,

539
00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:55,309
this ad won him the election.

540
00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:56,669
Well, that's an exaggeration,

541
00:15:58,710 --> 00:16:00,749
but we've seen people

542
00:16:00,750 --> 00:16:02,969
tend to like kind

543
00:16:02,970 --> 00:16:04,529
of boring folks in general

544
00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:06,529
elections, Governor Evers

545
00:16:06,530 --> 00:16:07,569
as an example.

546
00:16:07,570 --> 00:16:08,399
So.

547
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,339
Maybe Tiffany's trying to make

548
00:16:10,340 --> 00:16:11,939
that happen and build that

549
00:16:11,940 --> 00:16:13,599
reputation for himself.

550
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,459
Sean, I want to ask you about

551
00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:17,439
this, because I got the

552
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,659
sense that he was trying to rebrand

553
00:16:18,660 --> 00:16:20,539
himself as a folksy guy.

554
00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:21,839
Now, if you look back at the history

555
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,439
of candidates winning elections, you

556
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,419
look at Evers and Tommy Thompson.

557
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:26,799
I mean, what's your impression of

558
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,499
what attributes do they share in

559
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:29,919
common when it comes to being the

560
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,479
everyman in Wisconsin, that folksy

561
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:31,769
nature?

562
00:16:31,770 --> 00:16:33,349
I think if you just look at right

563
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:35,169
now in Wisconsin politics

564
00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:37,469
that Rich said the word boring,

565
00:16:37,470 --> 00:16:39,329
but I think these candidates kind

566
00:16:39,330 --> 00:16:41,289
of embrace that though.

567
00:16:41,290 --> 00:16:43,129
Tony Evers gives

568
00:16:43,130 --> 00:16:45,049
off this aw shucks vibe.

569
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:47,149
That is his brand.

570
00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:48,749
Scott Walker once described himself

571
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:50,629
as aggressively normal

572
00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:52,189
when he was running for president.

573
00:16:52,190 --> 00:16:53,329
And I think people in other states

574
00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:54,589
thought, what?

575
00:16:54,590 --> 00:16:56,709
But we know here, yeah,

576
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:58,689
that's what won him the election.

577
00:16:58,690 --> 00:17:00,999
Um, even, you know, like Jim Doyle.

578
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,339
Harvard Law educated,

579
00:17:03,340 --> 00:17:05,059
he would kind of drop his R's when

580
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:06,279
he was out on the campaign trail

581
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,419
because he knows what he was going

582
00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:09,139
for with that vibe.

583
00:17:09,140 --> 00:17:11,019
And so it is something

584
00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:12,959
that Tom Tiffany seems to have going

585
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:13,899
for him.

586
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:16,219
That guy that you could see at a bar

587
00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:18,098
talking about sports or you

588
00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:19,439
name it.

589
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:20,919
There was one development in the

590
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:22,199
Democratic primary that I'd like to

591
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,699
touch on if we can.

592
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:24,779
There's still a big primary.

593
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:26,338
There's seven candidates who've been

594
00:17:26,339 --> 00:17:29,479
in forums that you all have covered.

595
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,319
One of them got a Fairly big

596
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,019
endorsement in Democratic politics

597
00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:34,449
on you. Can you tell us about that?

598
00:17:34,450 --> 00:17:36,009
Yeah, and then I actually also want

599
00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:36,869
to turn it back to you.

600
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:39,069
So Kelda Roy's got this major

601
00:17:39,070 --> 00:17:40,889
endorsement from WEAC,

602
00:17:40,890 --> 00:17:43,689
this big education teachers union.

603
00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:45,389
And the sort of open question that I

604
00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:46,249
have and that you and I have

605
00:17:46,250 --> 00:17:48,229
discussed is, how significant is

606
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:49,889
that now? So in the past, that would

607
00:17:49,890 --> 00:17:51,469
have been sort of almost like a king

608
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:52,349
making move.

609
00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:54,189
She is certainly really

610
00:17:54,190 --> 00:17:55,609
kind of trying to promote it in part

611
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:56,949
because her polling numbers have

612
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:58,589
been pretty low throughout.

613
00:17:58,590 --> 00:18:00,489
So this could be a last chance,

614
00:18:00,490 --> 00:18:01,359
a last ditch effort.

615
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:02,499
But I'm curious what you think

616
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:04,199
compared to, again, like eight years

617
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,199
ago, what this endorsement

618
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:07,249
could mean.

619
00:18:07,250 --> 00:18:09,409
Well, I mean, I think, Zach,

620
00:18:09,410 --> 00:18:11,189
you know, when before we had lost a

621
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:12,929
lot of his power with Act 10, it was

622
00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:15,029
a huge endorsement.

623
00:18:15,030 --> 00:18:16,709
I think in a Democratic primary,

624
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:17,969
it's something they certainly have

625
00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:19,309
to take note of, though.

626
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:21,049
You can't ignore the largest

627
00:18:21,050 --> 00:18:22,249
teachers union.

628
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:23,689
To me, it just signals at this

629
00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:25,209
primary that we sort of are

630
00:18:25,210 --> 00:18:27,349
expecting to get smaller organically

631
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:29,369
at some point.

632
00:18:29,370 --> 00:18:30,329
Kelder Roy is not going to go

633
00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:31,869
anywhere when she has the teacher's

634
00:18:31,870 --> 00:18:33,699
union on her side.

635
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:35,179
That is one that seems like is gonna

636
00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:37,179
take a little more time to sort out

637
00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:38,180
here.

638
00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:40,619
So that's all the time we have for

639
00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:42,339
today. Thanks for joining us.

640
00:18:42,340 --> 00:18:44,079
This has been Inside Wisconsin

641
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,319
Politics.

642
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:46,459
Be sure to follow us on

643
00:18:46,460 --> 00:18:48,339
pbswisconsin.org,

644
00:18:48,340 --> 00:18:50,539
wpr.org YouTube or

645
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:51,619
wherever you get your podcasts.

646
00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:15,450
That's banter.