THE
IMPEACHMENT
PROCESS
IS A
% DIZZYING
DISPLAY
OF
PARTISAN
% DIVIDE
IN
OUR
COUNTRY
AND
OUR
% STATE.
% IN
TONIGHT'S
CLOSER
LOOK, AN
% EXPERT ON
ELECTIONS,
MEDIA,
% AMERICAN
POLITICS,
THE
% PRESIDENCY, POLITICAL
% COMMUNICATION,
POLITICAL
% BEHAVIOR
AND
PUBLIC
OPINION.
% HE SHOULD BE ABLE
TO
SORT
THIS
% OUT.
% UW-MADISON PROFESSOR
O
F
% JOURNALISM
MIKE
WAGNER
JOINS
US.
% SORRY TO
GO
ON LIKE
THAT, BULL
% YOU ARE
THE
EXPERT.
% >>
THANKS
FOR
HAVING
ME.
% >>
HOW
MUCH DO YOU
THINK
THE
% AVERAGE
WISCONSIN
VOTER
IS
% TUNING
INTO
THIS
IMPEACHMENT
% SHOWDOWN?
% >>
I
THINK A
LITTLE
BIT MORE
% THAN
BEFORE
BECAUSE CHANGE
IS
% STARTING TO
HAPPEN.
% MORE
WISCONSINITES ARE
BECOMING
% FAVORABLE
TOWARD
IMPEACHMENT.
%
I WOULD
SAY
THE
AVERAGE
PERSON
% IS STILL
PROBABLY
SEEING
THIS
% THROUGH THE LENS
OF
THEIR
% PARTISANSHIP AND
FOLLOWING
WHAT
% ELITES
ON
THEIR
SIDE
ARE
SAYING
% ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND
WHAT
% SHOULD HAPPEN
TO
HIM
NEXT.
% >>
IN
FACT,
MY
NEXT
QUESTION
WAS% DO YOU THINK
THAT
AS
THIS
% PROGRESSES,
POTENTIALLY,
THAT
% THIS WILL
CHANGE
THE
MIND
OF
% SOME TRUMP
VOTERS IN
TERMS
OF
% VOTING FOR
HIM?
% >> I
THINK
IT
DEPENDS
UPON
WHAT
% WE
LEARN
ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP
% THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS.
% I THINK
IF
WE LEARN
MUCH
OF
% WHAT'S ALREADY
BEEN
REPORTED,
I
% THINK
PEOPLE
HAVE
ALREADY
THEN
% MADE
UP
THEIR
MINDS
ABOUT% PRESIDENT TRUMP
AND
THOSE
WHO
% LIKE HIM
WILL
CONTINUE TO
LIKE
% HIM
AND
THOSE
WHO
HAVE
OPPOSED
% HIM
WILL
SEE
THIS
AS
EVIDENCE
% THAT THEY WERE
RIGHT
TO
OPPOSE% HIM.
% IF
WE
LEARN
MORE
OR
IF
THERE'S
% MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR
MORE
% PEOPLE
TO
EXPLAIN
WHY
THE
% CHARGES AGAINST
HIM
ARE
% PROBLEMATIC
FOR
SOMEONE
IN
THE
% POSITION OF THE
PRESIDENCY,
THAT
% MIGHT
CHANGE
SOME
POSITIONS
% AMONG
REPUBLICANS OR
% INDEPENDENTS
WHO
ARE
AMBIVALENT
% OR
JUST
TORN.
% >>
HOW
RESONANT DO YOU
THINK
THE
% ARGUMENT ON THE
PART OF
THE
GOP
% IS
THAT THIS IS
JUST AN
ATTEMPT
% BY
DEMOCRATS
TO
UNDO
THE
RESULTS% OF
THE
2016
ELECTION?%
>>
THE
CONSTITUTION
OUTLINES A
% PROCESS FOR IMPEACHMENT.
% THE
FOUNDERS
ALWAYS
THOUGHT
THIS% SHOULD BE
SOMETHING THAT
SHOULD
% HAPPEN.%IT
IS
NOT
UNDOING AN ELECTION.% IT IS
IN
FACT
DOING
THE
% CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY OF THE
HOUSE
% OF
REPRESENTATIVES.
% THEY
MAY
ULTIMATELY
DECIDE THEY
% SHOULD
NOT
IMPEACH
THE
% PRESIDENT, BUT
IT'S
NOT
TRYING
% TO
UNDO
THE
RESULTS OF
THE
% ELECTION.
% IT'S
NOT
LIKE HILLARY CLINTON
% BECOMES
PRESIDENT
IF PRESIDENT
% TRUMP WERE
REMOVED.
% MIKE PENCE
WOULD
BECOME
% PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES.% >> DO YOU
BELIEVE
THAT
VOTERS
% THINK RUDY
GIULIANI'S
SO-CALLED
% SHADOW
DIPLOMACY
IS
NO
BIG
DEAL?
% OR,
AGAIN, IS
THIS
JUST
THE
WAY
% THE
PARTISAN
MINDSET
WORKS?
% >> I DON'T
THINK
THAT
THE
% AVERAGE
VOTER HAS BEEN
ABLE
TO
% LEARN
ENOUGH
ABOUT
THA
T
BEHAVIOR
% TO
KNOW
MUCH MORE THAN
WAS
IT
ON
% MY
SIDE
OR
NOT.
% THE
MORE
WE
LEARN
ABOUT
THAT,
% WHICH
I
PRESUME WE
MIGHT
IN
THE
% IMPEACHMENT
INQUIRY,
THE
MORE
%
SOME
VOTERS
MAY
DECIDE
THAT
% THAT'S
REALLY PARTICULARLY
% TROUBLING BECAUSE
IT'S
FOREIGN
% POLICY BEING
NEGOTIATED
OUTSIDE% OF
THE
APPARATUS OF
THE
% EXECUTIVE
BRANCH.
% REALLY
IT'S
OUTSIDE OF
WHAT
THE% DEPARTMENT OF
STATE
MIGHT
DO
OR
% THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE OR
THE% DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURIT
Y% OR
OTHER
RELEVANT
DEPARTMENTS
% THAT
ENGAGE
IN
FOREIGN POLICY
% MAKING.
% SO
IT COULD BE
THAT
THE
MORE
WE
% LEARN,
THE
MORE
TROUBLING
% PEOPLE'S
ATTITUDES BECOME
TOWARD
% IT.
% OR
IT COULD
BE
THAT IT
WAS
MUCH
% ADO
ABOUT
LESS
THAN
WE
CURRENTLY
% THINK.%>>
IS PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S
KIND
OF
% FIGHTING
STYLE
ATTRACTIVE
TO
% VOTERS
POTENTIALLY,
DESPITE THE
% FACTS?%>>
AGAIN,
I
WOULD
SAY
IT'S
% ATTRACTIVE TO
HIS
VOTERS.
% I DON'T THINK
IT'S
ATTRACTIVE
TO
% EVERYONE.
% I
THINK
THAT
HIS
STRATEGY TO
% CREATE A
CAW
!
BLURRY
OF
ACCUSATIONS
% AND
WILD
TWEETS
AND
STATEMENTS% THAT ARE NOT
TRUE
ARE
DESIGNED
% TO WIN
THE
SHORT-TERM
NEWS
% CYCLE.
% IMPEACHMENT IS A LONG
PROCESS.
% PRESIDENT TRUMP
HAS
NOT
REALLY
% HAD TO GO
THROUGH A
LONG
PROCESS
% OF A
METICULOUS
CASE
BEING
BUILT
% AGAINST HIM.
% THE
MUELLER
REPORT
WASN'T A
SET
% OF HEARINGS THAT
LASTED
FOR
% MONTHS ON END.
% IT WAS
DRIP,
DRIP
WITH
% SOME
LEAKS HERE AND
THERE,
THEN
% THE RELEASE
OF
THE
REPORT
BUT
% THEN IT STOPPED.
% THIS IS
SOMETHING
THAT
COULD
GO
% ON
FOR A
VERY
LONG
TIME
IN A
% SUSTAINED WAY
THAT
WOULDN'T STOP
% AND
HIS
STRATEGY
MAY
BE
LESS% EFFECTIVE OR
ON
IT
MAY
BE
% EFFECTIVE IN
TURNING
PEOPLE'S% ATTENTION
AWAY
FROM
THE
% OBJECTIONABLE ISSUE.%>> DO
YOU
FEEL
AS
THOUGH THIS
IS
% ALMOST
ENTIRELY
HIS
STRATEGY AND
% THAT THERE
ISN'T A
CONCERTED
% EFFORT?%>> I DON'T KNOW
THAT
THERE'S A
% SET OF
MEETINGS WHERE
THEY
AGREE
% ON
EXACTLY
WHAT
THE
PRESIDENT IS
% GOING TO BE
TWEETING OR
SAYING
% AT A NEWS CONFERENCE OR
SAYING
% AS
HE
STANDS
OUT
BY
THE
% HELICOPTER BEFORE IT
TAKES
OFF.
% I
THINK
THOSE
OFTEN
COME
AS
% SHOCKS TO
HIS
STAFF,
IT'S
BEEN
% REPORTED, SHOCKS
TO
REPUBLICAN
% LEADERSHIP AND OTHERS.
% AND
SO
IT
SEEMS
THAT
SO
FAR
THE
% STRATEGY FOR
MOST
REPUBLICAN
% LEADERS HAS BEEN
TO
FIRST
SAY I
% DIDN'T HEAR WHAT
HE
SAID.
% THEN AFTER
THEY'VE HAD
TIME
TO
% TALK ABOUT
IT,
END
UP
SUPPORTING% THE
PRESIDENT.% >> WHAT
IS
IT
ABOUT
THE
KIND
OF
% FOREVER-GROWING
PARTISAN
DIVIDE
% THAT
MAKE
PEOPLE
COVER
THEIR
% EARS
AND
COVER
THEIR
EYES
IN
% FAVOR OF THE
TALKING
POINTS
OF
% THEIR
PARTY?
% >> I
THINK
WE'VE
BECOME
TOO
% QUICK
T
O
DISMISS
ANY
PROBLEM
% WITH
WHAT
W
E
MIGHT
CALL WHAT
% ABOUTISM.
% SOMETHING
OBJECTIONABLE
IS
% RAISED ABOUT
REPUBLICANS.
% PRESIDENT CLINTON
DID
SOMETHING
% SIMILAR.
% DEMOCRATS GET
ACCUSED
OF
% SOMETHING AND
THEY
SAY WHAT
% ABOUT PRESIDENT
TRUMP.
% RATHER THAN
SAYING THIS
IS
% BEHAVIOR
IS
NOT
OKAY,
PEOPLE ARE
% TOO QUICK TO
PUT
ON
THEIR
HOME
% TEAM
COLORS
AND
BEGIN
ATTACKING