- Our next speaker is Mike Marlow
and he's going talk about guard animals
and mostly about guard animals
for livestock protection against predators.
Mike. - Thank you.
Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to be here.
A quick little introduction.
I'm Michael Marlow, I'm a Wildlife Biologist
with USDA Wildlife Services program,
and I'm stationed out of Fort Collins, Colorado.
I've met several people here in the audience
and they've asked me where I'm from,
and I tell them Colorado and
they're a bit surprised that I came all the way
out here for this except for this
gentleman here in the front row, who knew that I was coming
he wore his, 'Got Grass?' hat, I noticed.
Second observation I'd like to quickly make is,
coming from Oklahoma I've spent 20 years
in the Wildlife Services program,
and I'm a little bit out of my element up here in the north,
but it's kind of refreshing.
It's probably the first workshop that
I've done where I'm the only one
in the room that doesn't have an accent.
They've asked me to come out here
and talk about guard animals but
I want to start out that presently I'm the
Resource Management Specialist with USDA Wildlife Services.
With that, I basically assist Wildlife Services
in broadening our knowledge our opportunities
to work with stakeholders and our research
component to broaden our knowledge in the
use of integrated wildlife damage management.
David spoke a lot about our lack thereof of
integrated wildlife damage management here
in the state of Wisconsin, and I hope to
place some higher emphasis on that throughout
my presentation.
Primarily I focus on livestock protection and
a lot of that is with predators and predator
management.
A big component of that is livestock
protection dogs.
Now actually what I have said,
I work a lot with integrated wildlife
damage management.
They've asked me to talk about guard
animals, and so I'll focus a lot on that now.
Now realize that livestock protection dogs
are very prevalent within the industry
within the sheep society.
It's not unprecedented to see
livestock protection dogs in cattle
operations and other operations,
but it is a little bit different.
But we see great success especially in
the northwest and the western United States
with the livestock protection dogs in
areas of sheep production.
I want to start today by talking about
livestock protection dogs, a little bit
of history on livestock protection dogs.
In the late 1970s, a lot of it was
emphasized through the sheep industry
and our actual research component
to where we saw resurgence to
livestock protection dogs for
primarily sheep protection.
That was primarily the result of three things:
The first thing being,
Federal restrictions placed on
the use of predicides back during the
Nixon administration.
There was a big study and a big push
and we lost our use of some of our
primary predacides, primarily that of
sodium cyanide using an M44 device,
and also with sodium fluoroacetate
which you might know from Livestock Protection Collar.
With this loss it put a greater
emphasis on coming up with other
solutions to predator management.
The second thing was the inability
of existing techniques to offer adequate relief.
We still saw a lot of increasing predation in a lot
of areas, predominately coyote depredation in livestock.
The third thing was desire by some,
and you see it even more and more today
and that's a push to use more and more
non-lethal technologies.
Now, it's not a new thing,
historically worldwide
livestock protection dogs have been used
ever since man brought them into domestication
and they've been used throughout the world.
But it wasn't until this time in the late 70s
and the early 80s that they
actually became more and more popular in the United States.
They're most commonly used to protect sheep,
like I said, but they're also helpful
in protecting other species of livestock.
We're seeing more and more in western Wyoming,
around the Green River Valley,
the implementation of dogs in grisly bear and wolf country,
not only sheep, but also cattle operations.
So, like I said, it's not unprecedented
however it's not one that you'd see as
widespread use that you would see in sheep production.
They're working dogs that stay with
or near livestock most of the time,
and they aggressively repel those
predators who actually try to confront the livestock.
This is where I guess it's a little
bit different in the sense of cattle
is in that sense that sheep are flocking
animals, whereas cattle typically graze
over a wider landscape, the herds are scattered
and so therefore you know the way the ability...
The dog is somewhat handicapped.
Especially in the western United States
where he may be grazing on operations
that may include you know, 30,000 or more acres.
I understand through some of the
presentations today, not necessarily
typical but an average size ranch here
may consist of a couple of sections of land
upwards of 12 hundred acres.
So I can see there's some relevance to
how a dog operates that they could
actually have a positive influence here in
this type of a production zone.
They're an important component of
managing livestock not only on the large landscapes
like I said in the west,
but also smaller, smaller landscapes.
Like I said we use them in the west
on huge, huge vast amounts of land
including the Bureau of Land
Management and US Forest Service grazing allotments.
When you think about livestock
protection dogs and how they compare to
other traditional non-lethal types of
preventative methods, I'm going to show you
on these next two graphs exactly how they
kind of gauge up.
The fourth area there, if you have any
difficulty seeing that is actually the
cost to implement livestock protection dogs.
This came from the study through the American Sheep Industry
from 2009 data that was published 2010.
As you can see compared to some of the
more traditional methods of livestock
protection such as shed lambing, where
you're actually bringing your ewes in
'til they're born, to actually lamb,
or actual fencing, could be predator-proof fencing or
electrical fencing.
Comparatively the cost to implement
livestock protection dogs is relatively low.
I've got a couple other methods there
cull/shooting which obviously not an
option here in a strictly non-lethal
capacity state, and also other methods
which would include arrow hunting
some other non-traditional type methods.
So when you see the relative cost
for implementing livestock protection dogs
is low, and when you compare that to
what the producers actually see as a
relative return, how happy are they
with the actual implementation of these methods?
You see that the livestock protection dog
almost equals that of shed lambing.
You know when you have shed lambing,
you've totally excluded access for the predator
to get to the offspring, therefore you're
going to eliminate, if not completely ...
You're going to reduce if not completely
eliminate depredation on those lambs.
But the return, the bang for your buck
I guess you could say, is very high
they are very well perceived, well received
within the sheep industry.
With that, I want to take a look at some pros
and then I want to talk about some cons.
I want to talk about how we can maybe
adapt this for how it would apply for a
state such as yours here in Wisconsin,
maybe Minnesota, and some of the Great Lakes regions.
Livestock protection dogs as I've said
can guard a variety of livestock.
They're known to protect sheep,
cattle, people use them on poultry
operations, wildlife operations,
so they do have an opportunity
to have some diverse use.
They're typically able to analyze threats.
This is very important.
I'm going to talk about a little bit later,
but dogs for the most part
are very intelligent and so they are going
to be able to perceive between an active
threat and maybe just a situation that's
just not typically normal, where they're
not going to be vicious or potentially
cause harm in a situation where other
types of animals can potentially react in
a more negative way.
They are intelligent.
They are able to analyze when there's
actual threat of predation versus just
some unique situation.
One thing that makes it beneficial
is livestock protection dogs are able to bond
to the livestock they're protecting.
You typically do this in the sheep
industry by actually introducing those dogs
to young lambs and a ewe early on.
A lot of people think that these dogs think they're sheep.
They don't think they're sheep.
It's just the fact that they're comfortable
around the sheep, and they enjoy being around them
and so they're going to protect these sheep.
That may be a difficult facet
in trying to actually bond these to cattle.
One thing I encourage is for people
to be innovative, and regardless
if it's sheep industry, or cattle industry,
or poultry industry, dogs are a great investment.
It's going to take a lot of time and
energy spent to make a proper livestock protection guardian.
It's not something...
It is innate within a dogs to protect
in a way but the fact of the matter
is there's a lot of effort, and time,
and responsibility that producer has
to devote to this success.
Bonding the cattle may be a little bit
more challenging, but it's something
that, like I say we are looking at,
other producer's are trying it.
So that's part of the important components
of how livestock protection dogs accomplish
what our goals are.
They may alert producers to potential threats.
Dogs are vocal, they bark.
In the west when you have dogs that may
be 100's of miles, not 100's of miles
but 10's of miles away from human presence,
every night or every day, this may not
be as big a deal but here on smaller landscapes
if you're near your pastures and dogs
are carrying on and barking it could
alert you to the fact that something's going on,
and maybe allow you to have a response to the situation.
That's an important component, a positive
component of livestock protection dogs.
They may allow for greater pasture use and grazing.
David commented about some of these pastures
you had to pull off cattle or livestock completely.
Dogs may, from their territorial nature,
allow for these pastures that may have
historically vulnerable to predation.
So that's one thing-- I'll throw out this caution.
I think it was Mr. Link here mentioned
pack size as many as 20 or 25 animals,
and that's what we're seeing in the Rocky
Mountain region now and we're actually
doing a study and the National Wildlife
Research Center is conducting a study
because what we're seeing is we're
actually seeing a mortality in
livestock protection dogs in these areas
they have these large packs of wolves.
When you're talking about a wolf in the
Great Lakes region, I'm not for sure
what the average weights are but,
some of our wolves in the northern
territories, Rocky Mountain territories
easily exceed over 100, 120 pounds.
When you have 20 or 25 animals maybe combating or trying to
come in on livestock and they're
only being defended by six or seven dogs
you know, do the math.
One thing that ethically
we don't necessarily encourage the use of dogs
where we're seeing the impacts of mortality to the dogs,
but we're actually doing research
to try and identify breeds of dogs
that historically were used in Europe
presently against wolves and bears in those countries.
We're looking at more athletic,
a larger more vicious dog, canine vicious.
But these dogs had to meet certain
criteria where and one of those criteria
was to be human tolerant.
That study is actively going on now and
I'll talk a little bit more about
that toward the end of my presentation.
LPDs provide long-term protection
as predators do not become accustomed or habituated.
David talked about how these wolves
had become habituated to all these
non-lethal technologies.
We don't see that with dogs,
they don't habituate.
There's a constant vigilance these dogs
have the capability they have to not
allow these predators
to habituate to their presence.
That's a positive attribute.
However, you know, every rose has it's thorn
and there are definitely disadvantages
with livestock protection dogs,
I'll touch a little upon that now.
They may kill your livestock, so that's not...
If they're out there to protect your livestock
and they're killing your livestock
that's not obviously an advantage.
But what you typically see that in the young
dogs that are maybe too playful with
their calf or a lamb and they actually kill.
Some of this actually evolves from a lack
of a producer responsibility.
They put their cattle out on pasture,
they ask the dog just to provide for himself,
and a hungry dog is going to do what it
takes to survive and so, some of this actually
is self-imposed by the producer themselves.
Something to be aware of.
They may harass and kill non-target wildlife.
If you were a cattleman but you also
love deer hunting and you know these
dogs potentially chase your deer away
it may not be something that's a positive
attribute towards your operation.
We don't see that so much with the
people we talk to in the east,
where we see it is with our adversarial groups
who are concerned with these dogs
all turn grisly bear migration patterns
or actually disrupting habitat
corridors where other wildlife
are actually, naturally moving.
We get a lot of I guess negative response
from the use the livestock protection dogs
on public lands as a result of this capability.
So, something to be aware of.
Third is: they may wander unless adequately fenced.
And that can be a big problem,
especially in smaller landscapes.
If you have a neighbor that raises Labrador Retrievers, and
his bitch is going into heat,
and your livestock protection dog
is not protecting your cattle, and he's over there
trying to service those dogs on that Labrador ranch,
he's going to have problems.
So, that's something to be aware of.
You know, there are certain technologies being developed.
Some are better than others that are in development now:
virtual fencing, some of the earliest ones
were actually buried electrical cables
where a collar would actually keep that dog from crossing.
Now you're getting more--
Technology allows for
satellite usage and telemetry-type applications.
Certainly something to be aware of.
These dogs, especially in boredom, will wander,
but in areas where urban landscapes or these rural
landscapes where neighbors may have dogs and others may have
dogs, wandering would be definitely a negative aspect.
[cough]
They may be aggressive to strangers.
We've done a lot to try to educate the public.
I'll talk about that in a little bit more detail later.
But if you have neighbors that have hunting dogs or young
children that frequently pass by your place,
it's certainly something to be aware of.
They may be aggressive to strangers.
We do have mechanisms that we try to help people identify
certain types of dogs and certain types of breeds
for certain types of situations,
and aggression toward humans is one of these attributes
that some dogs may possess and others don't.
So, certainly something to consider.
LPDs may not tolerate herding or other foreign dogs.
So if you're using spaniels or heelers or kelpies or whatever
it may be to periodically herd your cattle,
you'd have to take that into consideration.
If you have livestock protection dogs out on the pasture and they
see a dog chasing these calves or sheep or whatever it may be,
it could be a train wreck.
And so you make yourself aware of that.
It's not always compatible.
So it's certainly something to consider.
They need time and guidance to mature properly.
So, they take time.
And they take guidance.
That guidance is an investment from you as the producer.
And so, you know, a dog sometimes we recognize doesn't
reach this maturity where he's able to actually defend against
these adversarial predators maybe until they're two or three
years old.
With that, you know, we typically see seven or eight
good years following that, you know,
with the application of livestock protection dogs.
So, it's something to realize that it's not something that's
going to happen overnight.
It is a time-consumptive-type process.
They'll bark, especially at night.
That's a good thing, but it could be a negative thing.
Like I say, I'm talking about
this interface with your neighbors.
So, if you have neighbors that don't appreciate a dog barking
every time a raccoon or a possum or a fox or a coyote comes near,
then that could potentially be something you'd want to
consider.
You know, having predators and angry neighbors,
you may prefer to have angry neighbors and keep the predators
away.
But it's something to definitely take into consideration.
Not so much a big deal here in the East as it is in the West,
but you got to realize that using dogs sometimes eliminates
the capability of using of other predator protection mechanisms.
In the West we have, I guess, the pleasure of being able to
use certain predicides, M44s, in certain instances to reduce
conflicts with predators.
However, that's not necessarily compatible when you're using
dogs because these are poisons that dogs
and canines in general are susceptible to.
I don't think it's a tool that's necessary to use
here in Wisconsin.
Traps and snares also you must take into consideration.
If you have traps on the landscape or snares,
these dogs are vulnerable to those as well.
We actually have research where we've actually been able to
train and avoid the poisons from the application of M44 devices,
but, you know, just curiosity or whatnot around a trap set or
snare set could potentially be harmful to that investment that
that you made in the livestock protection dog.
So it's certainly something to consider.
[cough]
I want to talk a little bit about protecting this resource.
In Colorado the American Sheep Industry Association claims that
without the livestock protection dog for the protection of sheep,
they'd be totally out of business.
And so that's a tool that they heavily rely upon if not totally
dependent on.
And so we've seen a lot of situations where it necessitates
a group effort to actually protect this livestock
protection dog, protect this valuable resource
in livestock protection.
And one way we've banded together to accomplish this
is through education.
As a service, Wildlife Services, we produce several pieces of
literature in the form of fact sheets that
are available on our website.
Historically,we've been able to provide guidance through
publications such as the "Livestock Guarding Dogs:
Protecting Sheep from Predators" publication,
but also there's a plethora of information available on the
Internet that would help guide a producer on actually properly
preparing and utilizing these dogs in the application of
livestock protection.
And so educating the producer is very,
very important to help protect this resource.
It comes along with not only being knowledgeable,
but you have responsibilities.
And we see this more and more in the West.
Increasingly, we're seeing more and more people using public
lands for hiking, biking, horseback riding,
and just outdoor use in general.
And with that we've seen an increase in conflicts
with livestock protection dogs on public lands.
And so we don't necessarily see that
except for those people who refuse to realize that
their little poodle off-leash running around on a forest trail
running into a pack of sheep isn't a good thing.
Because it's not.
And these dogs, like I say, they're able to analyze threats,
but when this dog runs into sheep,
it's a potential train wreck.
And we've had several instances where that's become an issue.
We're seeing more and more conflicts with livestock
protection dogs around urban and in rural areas that were
traditionally used for farming, but they're now being used for,
what we call, little ranchettes in the West.
And so we're seeing more and more conflicts between neighbors
with livestock protection dogs.
So producer responsibility goes a big way.
So when you think about whether that can't be THAT big a deal,
when the "Los Angeles Times" runs an article such as this,
"Ranching, recreation collide in the great outdoors",
it IS a big deal.
I mean, it's something we recognize nationally
as a problem.
And what this particular article stemmed from was an incident
in about 1990-- no, excuse me-- 2008,
Eagle, Colorado,
where a mountain biker was in a race and she got separated
from the group of people.
And so the Forest Service had contacted the producer that
there was a race going to be coming through his allotment.
And so when the group of riders came through a few hours later,
he released his dogs.
Well, unbeknownst to the rest of the riders and the organizers,
there was a lady who had fallen way behind.
She actually rode into a band of sheep,
and with that came some horrible consequences.
She was attacked by these dogs and viciously attacked.
Didn't die but had upwards of 80 or 90 stitches, I understand.
But it set into motion a huge backlash from the public and
especially those who were looking for ways to get people
off of public lands.
You know, they might not have a problem with the dogs,
but they use this as a tool because they're against public
grazing, they're against agricultural use of public land,
and trust me, it had a huge fallout.
And so when I'm talking about producer responsibility,
I'm talking about more along the lines of this as well.
We have these dogs that are on public lands.
And this is an article in southwest Colorado where the
sheep industry is so dependent on these animals,
yet you see headlines such as this: "Fierce sheepdogs
alarming tourists in SW Colorado."
And basically it goes back to people who are producers and not
using those dogs that have been properly socialized or properly
trained to actually be out and around the public.
You know, they've taken these dogs
and they've basically just turned them loose.
Sometimes they're free-breeding.
They've not been acclimated to human presence,
not been socialized properly.
So with that comes some huge conflicts.
So, the American Sheep Ministry has been pro-active.
We as an agency have tried to help them be pro-active.
And we've come up with
some livestock protection dog best management practices.
What these have done is they've allowed for us to help optimize
the use of LPDs and minimize these conflicts.
And so it's not just the producers.
A lot of the problems can be attributed to the lack of
knowledge or, for lack of a better word,
ignorance of the general public on how they should react to
sheep and sheepdogs on public lands.
And so we've worked with the sheep industry and the Forest
Service and BLM to produced these signs that we've actually
implemented throughout public lands, trailheads, trails,
parking spots all along these national forest landscapes to
where we can educate the public on the dos and don'ts
around these dogs.
You know, if you see sheep, don't approach them, avoid them.
Keep your dog on a leash.
If you are confronted, this is what you should do.
So it's gone a long ways,
we've evidently deterred some of the conflict.
And we've made this available initially .. we've exhausted
our resource twice on the production of these along with
a complimentary brochure.
But we're in development now.
We're going to produce this on more of a heavy-duty,
rubberized-, vinylized-type plastic adhesive to where
producers can purchase those in bulks of ten and apply them to a
metal backing and hopefully get those out,
not only on public lands but on private lands as well.
When this was initially developed,
it was developed for public land use.
We saw a great response, and we actually wrote it to actually
apply to private lands.
It's also available in Spanish.
Especially we see a lot of that need in the Western United
States.
So there's a lot of educational components involved in this,
as I mentioned.
A complimentary brochure went along with this.
You can find this in a lot of our different Forest Service
visitor's centers, trailheads, and throughout the West where
the public can use this resource to educate themselves.
Moving on a little bit.
This is, you know, a talk about guard animals,
not just livestock protection dogs.
So, we get a lot of questions about the use of llamas.
Llamas do have attributes that some dogs don't possess
that are beneficial.
They also have some negatives,
and I want to talk a little bit about both of those.
For instance,
they possess some behavioral and physical characteristics
that make them favorable to livestock protectors.
Some of these attributes are: they're highly sociable.
So if you got a llama or two out in the pasture,
they want to be around other livestock.
Maybe they want to be around horses,
they may want to be around sheep,
they may want to be around cattle.
Whatever it is.
It's not like they bond.
They do bond in a way, but not like dogs necessarily.
They're sociable animals.
They want to be around other animals.
So if you're not familiar with llamas you might think:
That's odd.
How would they be protective of my livestock?
Well, they're aggressive against canines,
naturally innate ability or dislike of coyotes, foxes,
wolves, dogs, whatever it may be.
Just innately they have
a strong, aggressive disposition toward these animals.
So that's where it comes as a protective mechanism.
And realize they also are much taller than sheep.
They're much taller than cattle.
And so they can actually see and maybe perceive a threat quicker
and sooner than your livestock may be able to see
and react to it.
So that's an advantage that they possess.
Unlike dogs, though, they don't actively guard your sheep.
Dogs will actually try to maybe flock and get around the sheep,
and they're actually protecting the sheep.
It's an indirect response from llamas--
they're protecting themselves.
And indirectly, your sheep or cattle or horses or poultry
may benefit from that.
So they're not quite bonding like a dog would, but you do
actually benefit from that indirect type of protection.
Like I said, there's pros and there's cons
with most every tool.
Llamas are naturally social; they bond fairly quickly,
so that's a positive.
They're naturally aggressive to foxes, coyotes, dogs,
other canine species, wolves potentially.
They have similar maintenance, shelter,
and feeding needs as sheep and goats.
They graze the same pastures, so I assume they're going to graze
the same type of pastures as cattle.
So that would be a positive.
They generally have a calm temperament toward humans,
so you're not going to have to worry about
getting necessarily bitten.
You might get chased or intimidated a bit,
but for the most part they're pretty calm, you know,
reasonable animals.
They're long-lived, 20 - 25 years.
Actually outlive the life expectancy of a dog.
So, your original investment could be realized pretty quick
and have long-term impacts to your protection of livestock.
They don't roam, they don't dig, and they don't bark.
That's a negative that dogs sometimes possess
and llamas don't have.
There are cons with the llamas.
Several of these would be relevant to your situation here
in Wisconsin.
They're vulnerable to being preyed upon by coyotes and dogs,
so I suspect they'd be vulnerable to being preyed upon
by wolves as well.
So that's something to be recognized.
There's difficulty in defending against multiple animals.
You typically don't think about one wolf,
you think about a pack of wolves.
So that's something to recognize.
It could potentially work, but then again
it may have negative consequences
to the llama and your investment there.
They're less successful in pastures of dense vegetation
or on large, open grasslands.
I don't think that large open grasslands would applicable
here, but I suspect driving on the highways.
I saw the map that David showed.
Wolves are moving more and more in these pasture and cropland
type situations, and some of your forests are very dense.
So this may be a handicap It's maybe something that's not
suitable for certain landscapes here in Wisconsin,
but then again, you know, it may be something worth
investigating.
Llamas may have difficulty adjusting to living alone.
A lot of times they're lonely, but if they bond and socialize
well with your animals that may not be a problem.
You might think, let's just get multiple llamas.
But then you run into the problem that
if you have multiple llamas, a lot of times
the llamas won't hang out together.
They won't actually intermingle with your livestock.
So that's something you want to consider.
They usually cannot be utilized with livestock protection dogs.
Logically, obviously, if they don't like dogs,
they're not going to be able to work in tandem with these dogs.
Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be something worth testing to
see if you could actually, you know, break that, I guess,
you know, actually create a bond,
but then if you get the llama used to dogs then he might not
be as big a threat or as aggressive towards those dogs
you're trying to protect against.
So, not always compatible with other applications of dogs.
[cough]
Donkeys.
You see more and more literature.
You see more and more evidence of donkeys being used in cattle
applications.
Donkeys are, indeed, another animal to consider.
They possess characteristics that make them favorable
livestock protectors, much like the llamas.
They're highly territorial.
So if you have, you know, a 200-acre pasture and he lays
that down and claims that as his territory, that's a good thing.
And so you think well, he's territorial of what?
...other donkeys?
Well, no, he's actually territorial in general,
and they instinctively do not like canines and they are
aggressive towards them.
So if he's claimed as his territory and you have this
potential for canine adversaries,
then this could be a positive tool.
It could be something that would be beneficial
in your particular situation.
They're an alert animal in pasture.
You know, you see them a lot of times they are just standing
there, but they're actually very alert and very keen on being
able to perceive potential threats.
So that's a good thing.
Much like llamas, as they're not purposely protective of your
livestock, it's an indirect thing.
You know, he's looking out for himself,
but your livestock benefit indirectly.
So much like the llama,
that's pretty much the same type of deal.
Looking at some of the positive aspects beyond those I've
mentioned: they typically bray loudly during times of perceived
threats, such as I mentioned that dogs are vocal and may
alert you to the presence of predators or threats,
same with the donkeys.
You know, if you hear a donkey braying repetitively it could
very well indicate you have a problem going on
and you can respond to it.
Donkeys possess very good hearing
and a wide field of vision.
Maybe they may not stand as tall as llamas,
but they do actually have this attribute which allows them to
be wary, aware of what's going on around them.
So that's certainly a positive attribute.
They're likely to stand their ground when challenged.
They're pretty hardheaded, pretty tough, you know.
They'll stomp a dog into paste and a coyote and whatnot.
So I'm not saying he's necessarily capable of fending
off multiple predators, but he's definitely a worthy opponent.
So that's definitely something to take into consideration.
As well as like the llamas, they are long-lived,
upwards of 30 years.
So it's a relatively small investment for a long return,
so certainly a potential positive for you.
Pretty calm. They pose little threat.
It's recommended that people don't have intact jacks.
That typically a jenny with maybe a foal
is your best choice.
You know, even then sometimes some people think that
more is better, but no.
Typically, same with the llamas, if you have more than one,
males typically may fight or may team up
and avoid your other livestock.
However, a jenny with a foal is probably the most
you would want to apply.
And I've seen the numbers and depending on the size of
pasture, but a jenny with a foal and a herd of 200 cattle is,
you know, in Texas especially can be a good ratio.
So not a huge monetary investment
and relatively easy to take care of.
Unlike dogs they don't roam, beg, or bark,
just like llamas.
So if you're in an area where you have potential concerns
with your dog wandering, donkeys may be a solution to that.
They are compatible, unlike dogs,
with traps and other poison efforts.
So not necessarily applicable here to you in Wisconsin
with predicides, but if you do have a mechanism,
I'm not saying towards wolves, but I'm sure you trap coyotes
and foxes and whatnot periodically.
So donkeys would be compatible
with this type of damage technology.
There are cons as well with donkeys.
They may only react if they are threatened.
Like I say with the llamas, you know,
it's an indirect protection, but if they feel threatened,
they're very capable of maybe deterring that potential impact
from predators trying to prey upon your livestock.
They cannot deal with multiple canine attackers, typically.
So when you're talking about 20 wolves in a pack and the way
they actually approach livestock,
sometimes that may not have good results.
But definitely something to look at and consider.
They may bray a great deal.
Just because, you know. [laughter]
So they can drive you nuts
and certainly drive your neighbors nuts.
So depending on your situation and where actually the proximity
to this animal you have to yourself or your neighbors it's
certainly something to consider.
They may have little guarding effect
to widely-scattered livestock, cattle.
Or in large pastures, rough terrain, or heavy brush.
Each situation is different, but you never know until you try.
So it's certainly something to take into consideration,
and maybe it may work in certain pastures but not in others.
But just because it doesn't work here
doesn't mean it may not work there.
So it's certainly something to consider.
They may accept herding dogs or they may not.
Same with livestock protection dogs.
So if you rely heavily on herding dogs or you have a,
you know, prized very successful livestock protection dog,
the addition of the donkey to this, you know,
integrated approach may not be your best bet.
So it's something to consider.
[cough]
Donkeys may harass other livestock.
They can cause injuries.
So if you have a donkey that's actually shown to be aggressive
to other livestock, probably best to immediately get it out.
It's probably not going to change.
You know, you have those that just don't get along,
so certainly consider that.
It doesn't mean that all donkeys are that way,
but certain attitudes, just like us,
we all act a little bit different.
They're no different.
In wrapping this up, I usually mention this first
in my presentation, but I certainly always end with it.
That is that you must recognize that there is no tool that
is 100% effective in the realm of livestock protection.
David spoke heavily about it.
I talk about integrated wildlife damage management,
which is a combination of preventative methods,
but also a combination of control methods.
And so, there is no one tool.
The gentleman back here next to me
asked if I brought a silver bullet, you know.
I wish we had one, we don't, we probably never will.
So it's being innovative, it's being creative,
it's trying new things, it's trying new techniques.
It's trying, you know, to identify what is your
vulnerability and how can I adapt to overcome that
and shore that vulnerability up.
So using these different tools.
Livestock guard animals may be another component
of that mix or that montage of tools.
So certainly recognize that, you know,
it's going to be better if you integrate.
In my travels, in my presentations, I always
talk about this integrated approach to predator control.
So it's something that I know makes people angry
and there's a lot of, you know, "anti" sentiment
toward these protective measures
that go back and forth through the courts and all.
And our adversarial groups suing us.
And while our adversarial groups like to claim that we can
prevent livestock damage and predation damage to livestock
in a non-lethal fashion is simply not true.
Our professional society that we have a great relationship with,
that represents all facets of wildlife management,
wildlife damage management, and whatnot,
the Wildlife Society-- they actually recognize and I quote:
"Prevention or control of wildlife damage,
which often includes
removal of the animals responsible for the damage,
is an essential and responsible part of wildlife management."
That's what it boils down to.
It's an integrated approach that's going to require a
combination of non-lethal methods,
which are typically preventative methods,
and those methods of control which are typically lethal.
In the end I think that's what's most important.
And so with that, I'll leave it open to any questions.
[applause]