>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> FROM THE VOTING BOOTH TO THE
COURTROOM.
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ALLIES
CHALLENGE THE WISCONSIN
ELECTION, BUT THE STATE HIGH
COURT SENDS CASES BACK TO LOWER
COURTS.
MEANWHILE, FEVERS RISE AT THE
STATE CAPITOL WITH THE ARRIVAL
OF LONG-AWAITED CORONAVIRUS
PROPOSALS.
IN A POST-HOLIDAY WEEK THAT SAW
LONG LINES AT TESTING LOCATIONS
AND ANOTHER DAY OF RECORD
DEATHS.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW,"
SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC
SCHULTZ RUNS THROUGH THE COURT
CHALLENGES TO THE WISCONSIN
VOTE.
U.S. REPRESENTATIVES MARK POCAN
AND TOM TIFFANY ARE HERE TO GO
OVER CORONAVIRUS RELIEF BILLS IN
CONGRESS.
AND THE FORMER GOP PARTY CHAIR
IN BROWN COUNTY DETAILS A
CONVERSATION HE HAD WITH U.S.
RON JOHNSON, A CALL HE SAYS
REVEALS WHY JOHNSON HAS NOT YET
PLUCKILY
PUBLICLY ACCEPTED THE
BIDEN-HARRIS VICTORY.
>> FUNDING IS PROVIDED BY THE
FOCUS FUND FOR JOURNALISM AND
FRIENDS OF PBS WISCONSIN.
>> THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND GROUPS
ON HIS BEHALF HAVE FILED SEVERAL
LAWSUITS CHALLENGING THE RESULTS
OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN
WISCONSIN, WHICH A FINAL CANVASS
AND RECOUNT SHOWED JOE BIDEN WON
BY 20,682 VOTES.
THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT
THURSDAY DENIED TRUMP'S REQUEST
TO HEAR THE CASE THAT FOCUSED ON
BALLOT ISSUES CHALLENGED DURING
THE RECOUNT OF DANE AND
MILWAUKEE COUNTIES, SENDING IT
INSTEAD TO A LOWER COURT, WHICH
ALREADY THIS AFTERNOON HELD A
SCHEDULING HEARING.
ANOTHER TRUMP SUIT FILED MIDWEEK
IN FEDERAL COURT IN MILWAUKEE
CALLS FOR THE
REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED
LEGISLATURE TO DETERMINE WHO
WON.
THAT COURT ALSO HELD A HEARING
THIS AFTERNOON.
NOW, THE CASES ARE MOVING FAST
BY NECESSITY.
DECEMBER 14 MARKS THE DATE WHEN
EACH DATE CASTS THEIR BALLOTS
FOR PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT
DURING A MEETING OF THE
ELECTORS.
SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC
SCHULTZ HAS BEEN TRACKING THE
DIZZYING ARRAY OF LITIGATION.
HE JOINS US NOW AND HI, ZAC.
>> HELLO, FRED.
>> SO ELECTORAL COLLEGE
DEADLINES LOOM.
AREN'T THESE LAWSUITS CAUSING
WISCONSIN TO BLOW BY THEM?
>> WELL, WE HAVE THEM COMING UP
RATHER QUICKLY AND THAT'S ONE OF
THE THINGS THE JUDGES AND THE
COURTS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSING IN
THESE RULINGS, IS THEY NEED TO
MOVE VERY FAST AND EACH OF THE
CAMPAIGNS NEEDS TO MOVE FAST IN
ADDRESSING AND RESPONDING TO
THEM.
THERE ARE REAL QUESTIONS ABOUT
IF THESE GET RESOLVED IN DONALD
TRUMP'S FAVOR SOMEHOW, WOULD
THEY EVEN BE LEGITIMATE IF THEY
TAKE PLACE AFTER NEXT TUESDAY'S
SAFE HARBOR TIME OR BEFORE
ELECTORS VOTE ON THE 14TH.
GOVERNOR EVERS HAS ALREADY
CERTIFIED THE ELECTORS THAT WILL
VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN FOR OUR TEN
ELECTORAL VOTES.
>> SO, AS WE SAID, A FEDERAL
SUIT CALLS FOR THE LEGISLATURE
TO CHOOSE THE SLATE OF ELECTORS
IF THAT TIME LINE GOES BY THE
BOARDS IN A HEARING ON THAT CASE
TODAY, THE JUDGE CALLED IT A
BIZARRE REMEDY FOR HIS COURT.
COULD IT HAPPEN, THOUGH, THAT
THE LEGISLATURE CHOOSES THE
ELECTORS?
>> ONLY IF A FEDERAL JUDGE SAID
THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS, INVALIDATED
THE ENTIRE ELECTION AND GAVE IT
TO THE WISCONSIN LEGISLATURE TO
DECIDE.
WISCONSIN'S REPUBLICANS HAVE
ALREADY SAID THAT'S NOT GOING TO
HAPPEN.
THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO OVERTHROW
THE ELECTION IN THAT FASHION.
SIMILAR LAWSUITS HAVE BEEN FILED
IN OTHER CLOSE SWING STATES AND
THEY'VE ALL LOST ON THOSE SAME
GROUNDS.
SO IN THEORY, SURE, THAT'S WHY
THEY'RE GOING TO COURT.
IN LIKELIHOOD, VERY LOW.
>> NOW, MUCH HAS BEEN MADE OF
THESE UNSUCCESSFUL TRUMP
LAWSUITS IN OTHER STATES AND
THIS WEEK OUR HIGH COURT
REJECTED TAKING A CASE, BUT TO
BE CLEAR ON THIS, NOT BASED ON
THE FACTS OF IT, BUT ON
PROCEDURAL GROUNDS.
IS THAT RIGHT?
>> YEAH.
STATE LAW SAYS THEY HAVE TO GO
THROUGH A CIRCUIT COURT, THE
LOWEST COUNTY LEVEL FIRST,
BEFORE IT WORKS ITS WAY UP.
THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN ASKED FOR AN
ORIGINAL ACTION IN THE SUPREME
COURT.
THREE OF THE CONSERVATIVES SAID
THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT.
BUT ULTIMATELY A 4-3 MAJORITY
DECIDED IT NEEDED TO GO THE
CIRCUIT COURT ROUTE FIRST.
>> JUSTICE BRIAN HAGEDORN WAS
THE SWING VOTE AND ALSO EARLY
TONIGHT ANOTHER SUIT BROUGHT BY
AN ALLIED GROUP WAS REJECTED BY
THE COURT.
HAGEDORN WROTE IN CONCURRENCE
THAT THE REMEDY SOUGHT TINE
VALIDATE THE ENTIRE PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTION WAS STUNNING,
UNPRECEDENTED IN AMERICAN
HISTORY AND REPLETE WITH GLARING
FLAWS.
HE WROTE, QUOTE, SOMETHING FAR
MORE FUNDAMENTAL THAN THE WINNER
OF WISCONSIN'S ELECTORAL VOTES
IS IMPLICATED IN THIS CASE.
AT STAKE, HE SAID, IN SOME
MEASURE IS FAITH IN OUR SYSTEM
OF FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS, A
FEATURE CENTRAL TO THE ENDURING
STRENGTH OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL
REPUBLIC.
STRONG WORDS FROM JUSTICE
HAGEDORN.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
WHAT THE JUSTICES ASK JUSTICES ARE BEING
ASKED TO DO HAS NEVER BEEN DONE.
THERE ARE NO ALLEGATIONS OF
VOTER FRAUD IN ANY OF THESE
LAWSUITS.
THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD.
THERE HASN'T BEEN FRAUD
ANYWHERE.
WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE
TECHNICAL IRREGULARITIES THAT
MAY HAVE MADE SOME OF THE VOTES
CAST ILLEGAL AND THE QUESTION OF
LAW AROUND WHETHER THEY HAVE
BEEN ABLE TO CAST THEM IN THAT
MANNER IN THE FIRST PLACE AT A
BALLOT BOX OR THROUGH AN
ABSENTEE WITHOUT A FORMAL
WRITTEN REQUEST OR IF A CRERK
REMEDIED AN ADDRESS NUMBER OR
ZIP CODE, SMALL THINGS THAT HAVE
BEEN OVERLOOKED IN THE PAST THAT
ARE NOW BEING QUESTIONED, DOES
THAT MEAN THE ENTIRE BALLOT HAS
TO BE THROWN OUT AND THAT'S A
BIG HURDLE FOR SOME OF THESE
JUSTICES TO OVERCOME.
>> SO JUSTICES SENT THAT OTHER
CASE THAT ASKED TO BE HEARD
FIRST BY THE HIGH COURT TO A
LOWER COURT ON THOSE PROCEDURAL
GROUNDS, WHICH CHIEF JUSTICE
ROGGENSACK WANTED TO HEAR,
SAYING, QUOTE, WE AS THE LAW
DECLARING COURT OWE IT TO THE
PUBLIC TO DECLARE WHETHER THE
WISCONSIN ELECTIONS COMMISSION'
ADVICE IS INCORRECT.
HOWEVER, DOING SO DOES NOT
NECESSARILY LEAD TO STRIKING
ABSENTEE BALLOTS THAT WERE CAST
BY FOLLOWING INCORRECT WEC
ADVICE.
SO THE REMEDY PETITIONERS SEEK
MAY BE OUT OF REACH FOR A NUMBER
OF REASONS.
SO WHAT REMEDY, TOSSING 200,000
BALLOTS, THEREBY OVERTURNING THE
RESULTS?
>> YEAH.
AND THAT GETS RIGHT TO THE HEART
OF WHY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN ONLY
SOUGHT A RECOUNT IN DANE AND
MILWAUKEE COUNTIES, TWO
DEMOCRATIC STRONGHOLDS, BECAUSE
THE REMEDY HERE IS TO TOSS
WHAT'S CALLED A DRAWDOWN, A
RANDOM COLLECTION OF BALLOTS
FROM THOSE AREAS, BECAUSE
THERE'S NO WAY TO LINK THE
ACTUAL BALLOT TO WHAT MAY BE AN
ILLEGAL VOTE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
SO THE GOOD, THE BAD, ALL THE
BALLOTS ARE TOGETHER.
SO YOU RANDOMLY DRAW THEM DOWN.
IF YOU DO IT STATEWIDE YOU'RE
GOING TO GET A DRAW.
YOU DO IT IN DANE AND MILWAUKEE
COUNTY, THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN SAYS
WE WILL WIN IF THAT'S WHAT
HAPPENS.
>> NO DOUBT.
SO MEANWHILE AT THE STATE
CAPITOL ON REPUBLICANS ARE
HOLDING THEIR OWN ELECTION
INVESTIGATION NEXT WEEK.
WE HAVE SEEN THIS IN OTHER
STATES.
WE ARE OUT OF TIME TO TALK ABOUT
THAT NOW, BUT WE WILL BE
COVERING IT.
ZAC SCHULTZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH
AND THANKS FOR COVERING THIS.
>> THANK YOU.
>> WE CAN'T MOVE FORWARD
TOGETHER WHEN WE ACKNOWLEDGE
REALITY IN PRIVATE AND THEN
PEDDLE FALSEHOODS IN PUBLIC.
THAT IS A QUOTE FROM AN ARTICLE
PUBLISHED THIS WEEK BY THE
FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE BROWN
COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHO
LEFT THE PARTY WITH THE 2016
ELECTION OF DONALD TRUMP.
IN HIS ARTICLE, MARK BECKER
RECOUNTS A PHONE CALL HE HAD
AFTER THIS YEAR'S ELECTION WITH
WISCONSIN SENATOR RON JOHNSON.
AND BY BECKER'S ACCOUNT HE WAS
HORRIFIED BY WHAT HE HEARD.
HE JOINS US NOW FROM GREEN BAY
AND THANKS A LOT FOR DOING SO.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
IT'S AN HONOR TO BE HERE.
>> SO WHAT DID SENATOR JOHNSON
SAY TO YOU THAT YOU FOUND
UNCONSCIONABLE?
>> WELL, IT'S JUST SO
FRUSTRATING TO UNDERSTAND THAT
ELECTED OFFICIALS LIKE RON
JOHNSON KNOW THE TRUTH.
THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED.
THEY HAVE A FIRM GRASP ON
REALITY WHEN THE CAMERAS ARE
OFF, BUT THEN THEY DON'T THINK
THAT THE PUBLIC DESERVES TO HEAR
THAT SAME TRUTH WHEN THE CAMERAS
ARE ON AND IT'S ON RECORD.
AND THE DAMAGE THAT'S DOING
TUESDAY, TO THE FABRIC OF OUR
SOCIETY, IS -- LIKE I SAID, IT'S
UNCON SEVENTEENABLE.
IT'S HORRIBLE.
>> SO HE TOLD YOU THAT HE KNOWS
THAT JOE BIDEN IS THE
PRESIDENT-ELECT, BUT HE'S NOT
WILLING TO STATE THAT PUBLICLY
AND WHY DID HE SAY THAT?
>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE SAW IN
THE 2016 ELECTION WAS RON WAS
THE HIGHEST VOTE GET ER GETTER OF ANY
REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IN THE
HISTORY OF THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN.
HE SAID MY GOAL WAS TO GET 1.5
MILLION VOTES IN WISCONSIN.
HE SAID I DIDN'T GET THAT.
BUT DONALD TRUMP DID.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T WANT
TO TICK THOSE VOTERS OFF AND HE
SAW THE BIG SWELL THAT PEOPLE
THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN ABLE
TO GET.
BUT HE WASN'T WILLING TO ROCK
THAT BOAT.
>> IN FACT, IN YOUR ARTICLE YOU
SAY THAT HE SAID TO YOU I KNOW
BIDEN WON, BUT IT WOULD BE
POLITICAL SUICIDE TO ADMIT IT.
>> YES.
YES.
THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
>> SO WHAT ABOUT THE SILENCE ON
THE PART OF OTHER ELECTED
REPUBLICANS AND THE STOKING OF
CONSPIRACIES?
HOW IN YOUR MIND DO THEY
UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY, AS YOU
NOTE?
>> WELL, IT UNDERMINES DEMOCRACY
BECAUSE THE SANCTITY OF THE VOTE
IS THE MOST PRECIOUS THING THAT
WE HAVE IN OUR POLITICS.
IT'S STOKING THAT.
IT'S UNCONSCIONABLE.
IT'S HORRIBLE TO KNOW THAT THESE
ELECTED OFFICIALS VALUE THEIR
PARTY OVER THE OATH THAT THEY
TOOK TO SERVE THE COUNTRY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, RON JOHNSON IS
NOT UNIQUE IN THIS.
I MEAN, THERE ARE REPUBLICANS
ALL OVER THE STATE OF WISCONSIN
AND ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THAT
INSTEAD OF TELLING PEOPLE THE
TRUTH, THEY LINE UP BEHIND THE
-- YOU KNOW, THE ONE-TERM
PRESIDENT.
SO IT'S HORRIBLE.
>> YOU WRITE THAT IN FACT,
THOUGH, THAT JOHNSON WAS
UNCONCERNED ABOUT ALL OF THAT.
HOW SO?
>> WELL, HE SAID THAT THE
BIGGEST THING WAS, YOU KNOW, THE
PILLARS OF OUR DEMOCRACY ARE
STRONG ENOUGH TO WITHSTAND THIS.
AND, I MEAN, I GET IT.
THE PILLARS OF OUR DEMOCRACY ARE
VERY STRONG AND WE ARE LUCKY FOR
THEM.
BUT RON JOHNSON IS PART OF THAT
PILLAR OF OUR DEMOCRACY, THE
UNITED STATES SENATE, THE HOUSE,
CONGRESS.
THAT IS ONE OF THE PILLARS OF
OUR DEMOCRACY.
AND IT'S UP TO THEM TO BE ABLE
TO STAND UP TO WHEN THEY NEED TO
BE STOOD UP TO AND THEY'RE
FAILING IN THAT MISERABLY.
>> SO SENATOR JOHNSON DECLINED
TO BE ON THE PROGRAM, BUT SAID I
HAVE BEEN VERY CONSISTENT IN
BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
STATEMENTS THAT I BELIEVE THERE
ARE WAY TOO MANY IRREGULARITIES
AND SUSPECT ISSUES THAT NEED TO
BE INVESTIGATED AND PUBLICLY
VETTED BEFORE A FINAL RESULT IS
DETERMINED AND A PEACEFUL
TRANSITION OF POWER TAKES PLACE.
THE ARTICLE, THE ONE THAT YOU
WROTE, HE SAYS, SHOULD BE VIEWED
AS THE POLITICAL HIT PIECE IT IS
AND SIMPLY IGNORED.
SO WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO HIS
STATEMENT?
>> YOU KNOW, I WISH HE WOULD
TELL ME -- I WISH HE WOULD TELL
THE PUBLIC WHAT HE TOLD ME IN
PERSON.
YES, HE WAS CONSISTENT ABOUT HE
THINKS THERE'S IRREGULARITIES,
BUT HE ALSO SAID THAT HE
UNDERSTANDS THAT IT WASN'T
ENOUGH TO OVERTURN THE RESULT OF
THIS VOTE.
HE SAID THE SAME THING THAT
WILLIAM BARR, DONALD TRUMP'S OWN
ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID.
SO, I MEAN, YOU KNOW ON, IF HE
THINKS THAT THIS SHOULD BE
IGNORED, THAT'S FINE, YOU CAN
IGNORE IT, BUT WHY DON'T YOU
IGNORE THE PEOPLE IN THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION THAT ARE SAYING
THE SAME THING?
IF YOU WANT TO IGNORE MY PIECE,
THAT'S FINE, BUT WHY DON'T WE
PAY ATTENTION TO THE REPUBLICAN
ELECTION OFFICIALS IN
BATTLEGROUND STATES THAT ARE
SAYING THAT THIS VOTE WAS
SECURE, IT WAS OVER AND JOE
BIDEN WON, FULL STOP.
SO I WISH RON WOULD SAY THAT.
>> JUST VERY BRIEFLY, WHAT KIND
OF REACTION HAVE YOU BEEN
GETTING FROM YOUR ARTICLE?
>> I MEAN, IT'S BEEN POSITIVE.
I'VE BEEN ENCOURAGED BY SOME OF
THE PEOPLE THAT I KNOW THAT ARE
REPUBLICAN OPERATIVES AND
REPUBLICAN OFFICE HOLDERS WHO
HAVE SENT ME MESSAGES AND SAID,
YOU KNOW, GOOD JOB, THANK YOU,
BECAUSE, I MEAN, THIS IS A
TURNING POINT AND THIS IS A
DECIDING POINT FOR THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY ON WHERE DO
THEY WANT TO GO NOW.
YOU KNOW, THEY LOST THE
PRESIDENCY AND IT'S UP TO THEM
IN THESE CONVERSATIONS IN THESE
VERY PIVOTAL MOMENTS TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO
LOOK LIKE FOR THEIR PARTY.
AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT DOING
THE RIGHT THING.
>> ALL RIGHT.
MARK BECKER, WE NEED TO LEAVE IT
THERE.
THANKS VERY MUCH AND THANK YOU
FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> HOW DO OTHER CONGRESSIONAL
REPUBLICANS SQUARE THE
PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS?
AND WHAT ABOUT COVID RELIEF OUT
OF WASHINGTON?
WE TURN TO U.S. REPRESENTATIVE
TOM TIFFANY FROM THE 7TH
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT IN
NORTHWEST WISCONSIN.
HE JOINS US FROM WASHINGTON AND
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR DOING SO.
>> GOOD TO BE HERE, FREDERICA.
>> SO SENATOR JOHNSON TOLD A
CONSTITUENT HE KNEW THAT JOE
BIDEN HAD WON BUT HE SAID IT
WOULD BE PLAT POLITICAL SUICIDE TO
SAY SO PUBLICLY.
WHAT DO YOU SAY PLUCKILY?
>> I DID NOT SEE SENATOR'S
JOHNSONS SO I CAN'T COMMENT ON
HIS RACKS, BUT IT'S ALL PART OF
THE PROCESS AT THIS POINT.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT PENNSYLVANIA
AND GEORGIA, THERE'S QUESTIONS
WHETHER BALLOTS CAME OUT AT A
VERY LATE HOUR AND WERE COUNTED
THAT PERHAPS SHOULD NOT HAVE.
PENNSYLVANIA HAS A VERY
PROBLEMATIC SITUATION WHERE THEY
COUNTED BALLOTS AFTER THE
ELECTION DAY AND THAT CLEARLY
VIOLATES THE LAW IN
PENNSYLVANIA.
SO I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY
ANOMALIES OUT THERE AND THE
PROCESS SHOULD BE WORKED THROUGH
HERE.
>> SO AT THIS JUNCTURE YOU'RE
NOT READY TO SAY THAT JOE BIDEN
IS PRESIDENT-ELECT?
>> NO.
NOT UNTIL THE PROCESS IS
COMPLETED AND THE ELECTORAL -- I
MEAN, WHO ESTABLISHES THE NEXT
PRESIDENT IS THE ELECTORAL
COLLEGE.
THEY HAVE NOT MET YET AND WE
HAVE NOT COMPLETED THAT PROCESS.
>> SO, AS YOU KNOW, AND WE'RE
KIND OF DISCUSSING THIS, THE
TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWSUITS ALLEGING
FRAUD AND ELECTION
IRREGULARITIES HAVE FALLEN
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THEY CONTINUE WENDING THEIR WAY
THROUGH WISCONSIN COURTS RIGHT
NOW.
IS IT YOUR POSITION THAT THE
ELECTION WAS RIGGED, AS THE
PRESIDENT SAYS, OR RIFE WITH
FRAUD AND OUGHT TO BE CHALLENGED
IN THIS WAY IN WISCONSIN?
>> I USED THE TERM ANOMALIES
EARLIER.
AND THAT CLEARLY HAPPENED AT A
MINIMUM ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WHEN YOU SEE WINDOWS THAT ARE
BOARDED UP, I BELIEVE THAT WAS
IN PHILADELPHIA, POLL WATCHERS
BEING TOSSED OUT OF BEING ABLE
TO DO THEIR JOB, OF BEING ABLE
TO REVIEW BALLOTS, THERE'S
CERTAINLY CONCERNS THAT ARE
THERE.
I THINK THE BIGGER ISSUE FOR ME,
THOUGH, I THINK IT'S TWOFOLD.
ONE IS THIS ACCEPTING BALLOTS
AFTER ELECTION DAY I DO NOT
BELIEVE SHOULD HAPPEN.
THE SECOND THING IS MAIL-IN
BALLOTS, WHICH ARE DIFFERENT
THAN THE ABSENTEE SYSTEM HERE IN
WISCONSIN.
MAIL-IN BALLOTS, I BELIEVE THAT
THAT NEEDS TO BE ENDED ALSO
BECAUSE AS PRESIDENT CARTER SAID
WHEN HE WAS COCHAIRMAN OF A
COMMISSION 15 YEARS AGO, IT
LEAVES THE POSSIBILITY FOR FRAUD
TO BE MUCH MORE RAMPANT.
>> MAIL-IN BALLOTS, ABSENTEE
BALLOTS ARE OFTEN MAILED IN IF
THEY ARE NOT DROPPED IN DROP
BOXES.
>> YEAH.
THAT'S RIGHT.
SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
I THINK WISCONSIN'S ABSENTEE
SYSTEM WORKS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO
REQUEST IT.
THE DIFFERENCE I SEE IS WHEN YOU
MAIL BALLOTS TO EVERYONE.
THAT'S WHAT PRESIDENT CARTER AND
THE COMMISSION HE CO-CHAIRED
TALKED ABOUT, IS IT LEAVES THE
POSSIBILITY FOR FRAUD TO BE
GREATER IN THAT SITUATION.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
>> ALL OF THIS DISCUSSION OF
FRAUD AND IRREGULAR LAIRTSZ, DO
YOU THINK IT DOES DAMAGE TO THE
CONFIDENCE OF THE U.S. ELECTORAL
SYSTEM?
>> I THINK POSSIBLY IT COULD.
BUT I THINK IT'S ALSO HEALTHY
FOR US TO REVIEW OUR
INSTITUTIONS.
AND IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT I
BELIEVE ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, EVER
SINCE HE CAME DOWN THAT
ESCALATOR AND ANNOUNCED HE WAS
GOING TO RUN FIVE YEARS AGO, HE
HAS LIFTED THE LID ON
INSTITUTIONS THAT WE'VE ALWAYS
HAD GREAT FAITH IN IN THIS
COUNTRY, INCLUDING LIKE THE FBI,
THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
AND WE'VE FOUND THAT THERE'S
SOME ROT IN THERE THAT NEEDS TO
BE CLEANED UP.
AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME
INSTANCES WHERE OUR ELECTION
SYSTEM CAN DO BETTER, AND I
THINK HE'S HIGHLIGHTING THAT,
AND I THINK THAT'S HEALTHY FOR
OUR COUNTRY.
>> AS TO ELECTED OFFICIALS DOING
WORK IN WASHINGTON, THERE'S A
COVID RELIEF PACKAGE ON THE
TABLE, SOMETHING SHY OF $1
TRILLION.
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE IN THAT
SPECIFICALLY AND WHAT DO YOU
THINK WISCONSIN NEEDS TO TAKE
FROM THAT?
>> THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT I
BELIEVE SHOULD BE IN THERE.
ONE IS LIABILITY PROTECTIONS.
AND THE OTHER ONE IS TO HAVE
TARGETED RELIEF FOR -- FOR
EXAMPLE, WE'VE BEEN PROMOTING
FOR THREE MONTHS TO DO THE
PAYCHECK PROTECTION EXTENSION
PLAN AUTHORED BY REPRESENTATIVE
OUT OF OHIO.
SPEAKER PELOSI REFUSES TO TAKE
THAT BILL UP.
IT TARGETS RELIEF TOWARD SOME
BUSINESS SECTORS THAT REALLY
NEED HELP, ESPECIALLY
HOSPITALITY, HOTELS,
RESTAURANTS.
SOME OF THEM ARE REALLY IN DIRE
SHAPE.
AND THERE IS A PLAN THERE TO BE
ABLE TO PASS THAT.
ONCE AGAIN NOW THIS WEEK, WE SAW
NOTHING HAPPENED UNDER THE
LEADER ER SHIP OF SPEAKER
PELOSI.
WE HAD A BILL IN REGARDS TO
TIGERS AND LEGALIZING MARIJUANA.
NOTHING TO GET RELIEF FOR THOSE
BUSINESSES THAT HAVE BEEN HURT
BECAUSE OF LOCKDOWNS THROUGH NO
FAULT OF THEIR OWN.
>> WE LOOK FORWARD TO SOME
POTENTIAL ACTION ON THAT NEXT
WEEK.
BUT REPRESENTATIVE TOM TIFFANY,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US FROM WASHINGTON.
>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU,
FREDERICA.
>> TURNING TO THE OTHER SIDE OF
THE AISLE, AMONG THE WISCONSIN
CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION, WITH
DEMOCRATIC U.S. REPRESENTATIVE
MARK POCAN FROM THE 2nd
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.
HE JOINS US FROM MADISON AND
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU, FREDERICA.
GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> SO LOTS TO TOUCH O. FIRST,
YOUR REACTION TO THE LAWSUITS
FILED BY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND
HIS ALLIES IN WISCONSIN
CHALLENGING THE RESULTS HERE.
>> YEAH.
IF HE WANTS TO DONATE $3 MILLION
TO THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, WE'LL
GO THROUGH A FEW HOOPS FOR HIM.
BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO
ANYWHERE.
EVEN SCOTT WALKER SAID THE WAY
WE RUN OUR ELECTIONS IN
WISCONSIN, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO
FIND A WAY TO OVERTURN THAT MANY
VOTES.
BUT IF THIS IS WHAT DONALD TRUMP
NEEDS TO UPHOLD HIS FRAIL EGO IN
THE FINAL WEEKS THAT HE'S IN
OFFICE, WE'LL TAKE THE MONEY.
>> NOW OUR STATE LEGISLATURE
WILL HOLD INVESTIGATIVE HEARINGS
AS WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER STATES N.
YOUR MIND, DOES THIS HELP TO AIR
DOUBTERS' CONCERNS?
>> AGAIN, YOU'RE DEALING WITH
SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE
UP AFTER THEY'VE LOST THE
ELECTION AND SOMEHOW REPUBLICANS
ARE STILL PART OF THIS CULT
UNTIL HE OFFICIALLY STEPS DOWN
AND THEY HAVE TO DO WHATEVER HE
REQUIRES.
I WISH THAT THEY WOULD TAKE THIS
TIME AND DO HEARINGS ABOUT
COVID, ABOUT WHAT SMALL
BUSINESSES NEED RIGHT NOW AND
PEOPLE WHO ARE UNEMPLOYED, WHAT
WE NEED TO DO WITH CONTACT
TRACERS, ABOUT TESTING IN SENIOR
LIVING SITUATIONS IN PLACES LIKE
WISCONSIN.
BUT THEY HAVEN'T MET FOR OVER
SIX MONTHS TO DEAL WITH ANY OF
THAT AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO
A HEARING ON SOMETHING THAT IS
JUST TO MAKE THE PRESIDENT FEEL
BETTER.
NOT EXACTLY THE LEGISLATURE I
REMEMBER.
>> FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, HAS
THIS DELAY AND THE ALLEGATIONS
OF FRAUD DEFLATED DEMOCRATS'
EXCITEMENT OVER THE RESULTS?
>> NO.
THIS IS ALL DONE LARGELY FOR AN
AUDIENCE OF ONE, DONALD TRUMP.
YOU'RE FINDING EVERY DAY MORE
AND MORE MAJOR REPUBLICANS COME
OUT AND SAY JOE BIDEN WON THE
ELECTION BY A QUITE SIZABLE
MARGIN BY PRESIDENTIAL
ELECTIONS.
UP TO THIS POINT ALL THESE
ACTIONS ARE TO MAKE THE
PRESIDENT FEEL BETTER.
COVID IS KILLING THOUSANDS OF
PEOPLE A DAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
WISCONSIN HAS A COVID EPIDEMIC.
WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON COVID
AND INSTEAD WE'RE FOLLOWING
THESE LITTLE RABBIT HOLES THAT
THE PRESIDENT CAN FEEL BETTER.
IT'S JUST A SIGN OF THE TIMES OF
HOW TOUGH THE POLITICAL
ENVIRONMENT IS RIGHT NOW,
FREDERICA.
>> THERE IS SOME WORK GOING ON
TOWARDS COVID RELIEF OUT OF
WASHINGTON, INCLUDING DESCRIBE
HOW URGENT THIS IS FOR YOUR
CONSTITUENTS.
>> IT'S THE HIGHEST.
THERE'S NO QUESTION.
ANYONE WHO'S AN ELECTED OFFICIAL
WHO'S NOT SPENDING ALMOST ALL OF
THEIR TIME AND EFFORT ON COVID
ISN'T DOING THEIR JOB.
THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO
DO, WHETHER IT'S PUSHING THE
LEGISLATURE TO MEET AND SUPPORT
THE MASK AND OCCUPANCY ORDERS,
TRYING TO GET THE STATE TO HIRE
MORE CONTACT TRACERS.
WE'RE SIGNIFICANTLY DOWN.
AN IMPORTANT PART OF TESTING,
TRACING AND ISOLATION.
MISSING THOSE IS A CRUCIAL PART
OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.
AND MAKING SURE WE'RE TESTING IN
OUR SENIOR CENTERS MUCH BETTER,
NURSING HOMES AND ASSISTED
LIVING CENTERS.
WE'RE SEEING LARGE INCREASES IN
DEATHS IN THOSE FACILITIES.
MY JOB SHOULD BE TO GET THAT
FEDERAL BILL DONE, WHICH I THINK
WE'RE GOING TO DO NEXT WEEK, TO
GET ASSISTANCE TO SMALL BUSINESS
OWNERS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE
UNEMPLOYED AND OUR FRONT LINE
WORKERS AND STATE AND LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS DOING THE WORK.
BUT IF YOU'RE NOT OBSESSED BY
COVID AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL,
YOU SHOULDN'T BE AN ELECTED
OFFICIAL RIGHT NOW.
>> WHAT LEVEL OF AID, WHAT KIND
OF SPENDING DO YOU SUPPORT IN
ANY FEDERAL PACKAGE?
>> WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE A TRIMMED-DOWN
PACKAGE, BUT HAVING PRESIDENT
BIDEN TAKING OFFICE ON
JANUARY 20, THAT WILL GIVE US
ANOTHER CHANCE TO DO MORE WORK.
SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS ARE
HURTING BADLY, RESTAURANTS,
BARS, TOURISM, OTHER INDUSTRIES.
THAT'S CAUSING LAYOFFS AND
PEOPLE UNEMPLOYED AT NO FAULT OF
THEIR OWN.
WE'RE WATCHING FRONT LINE
WORKERS EXHAUSTED FROM TRYING TO
DEAL WITH THE COVID CASES AND
YET WE STILL HAVE A PRESIDENT
TELLING PEOPLE YOU DON'T HAVE TO
WEAR A MASK, WHICH IS
RIDICULOUS.
WE NEED TO CURTAIL THOSE CASES
TO RELIEVE THE PRESSURE ON OUR
HOSPITALS AND FRONT LINE
WORKERS.
WE NEED MORE RESOURCES THAN THIS
BILL WILL HAVE, BUT IT'S A
TEMPORARY FIX RIGHT NOW.
>> GOVERNOR EVERS WANTS PRIORITY
ON VACCINES GIVEN THAT HE SAYS
THAT STATEWIDE MITIGATION
EFFORTS HAVE BEEN BLOCKED IN
WISCONSIN.
DO YOU THINK DHS SECRETARIAL
LEKS AZAR WILL GO FOR GIVING
WISCONSIN PRIORITY ON VACCINES?
>> I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO DO
IT BY DEMOGRAPHICS AND
POPULATION AS THEY SHOULD.
FRONT LINE WORKERS SHOULD BE THE
VERY FIRST TO GET ANY VACCINES.
THOSE IN RISK CATEGORIES NEED TO
GET IT NEXT.
BUT THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO
IN WISCONSIN SHORT OF THIS THAT
WE'RE NOT DOING, INCLUDING
GETTING MORE CONTACT TRACERS,
HAVING MORE AGGRESSIVE TESTING
IN ASSISTED LIVING CENTERS AND
IN VERIFYING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN
THE NURSING HOMES.
SO I HOPE WE CAN DO ALL OF THIS
AT THE SAME TIME.
I THINK THE LEGISLATURE CAN MEET
AND PASS SOME OF THE IMPORTANT
PROVISIONS THE GOVERNOR HAS PUT
OUT OF THERE.
THE STATE HAS TO STEP UP AND DO
THINGS THEY CAN DO WITHOUT
LEGISLATIVE WORK OR FEDERAL
ASSISTANCE.
IF WE DO THAT AND GET OUR BILL
OUT NEXT WEEK AND THEN HAVE A
GOOD PLAN TO GET THE VACCINES
OUT TO PEOPLE WHO NEED IT THE
MOST, I THINK WE'LL AT LEAST BE
DOING THE JOB THAT WE HAVE TO DO
TO KEEP PEOPLE AS SAFE AS
POSSIBLE.
>> WE LEAVE IT THERE.
REPRESENTATIVE MARK POCAN, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.
>> SURE.
THANK YOU, FREDERICA.
>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, FROM OUR
PARTNERS AT WISCONTEXT.
THE PANDEMIC HAS CONTINUED FOR
ABOUT TEN MONTHS NOW, BUT THE
RATE OF NEW COVID-19 CASES IN
DIFFERENT PLACES AROUND
WISCONSIN HAS EBBED AND FLOWED
OVER THAT TIME.
>> CHARTS CREATED BY WISCONTEXT
SHOW A TIME LINE OF HOW THE RATE
OF CORONAVIRUS CASES GREW IN ALL
72 WISCONSIN COUNTIES ON A
DAY-BY-DAY BASIS.
STARTING IN LATE MARCH, WHEN
MULTIPLE CASES FIRST STARTED
BEING REPORTED, THESE GRAPHICS
ILLUSTRATE THE INITIAL SPRING
WAVE, THE MID-SUMMER SPIKE AND
THE SUSTAINED AUTUMN SURGE.
ONE GRAPHIC BREAKS IT DOWN BY
COUNTY POPULATION AND ANOTHER BY
THEIR CENSUS DATA AS URBAN,
RURAL OR IN BETWEEN.
A GRAPHIC SHOWING THE COURSE BY
AGE IS SIMILAR TO THE FIRST TWO.
ONE LOOKS AT GEE GEOGRAPHIC
PATTERNS.
ALL OF THESE CHARTS ARE
AVAILABLE AT wiscontext.org.
>> AND THAT IS OUR PROGRAM FOR
TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.