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[percussive music]
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- Murv Seymour:
Menkhu Ara Maat, Greg Doby,
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welcome to In Focus.
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- Menkhu Ara Maat:
Thank you for having us.
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- Greg Doby: Thank you.
- Murv: Now, you guys
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are the curators of this
incredible hip-hop exhibit
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called "Leading"--
is it "Leading Through the"--
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- Greg: Lead Between...
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- Murv:
"Lead Between the Rhymes."
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I knew-- you know,
you spend several days
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practicing that over and over.
[laughter]
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- Greg: That's okay.
- Then it becomes showtime,
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and then it's not
where you need it to be.
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- Greg: It's all right.
- But I love the name.
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How'd you guys come up with it?
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- Oh, you know, we were
toying with the idea,
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and we had, like, a list
of, like, 50 names.
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Fifty names.
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And I think, the last--
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maybe the last one was
"Lead Between the Rhymes"
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'cause we didn't want--
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all these other names
was just no, no, no, no.
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So, it just kind of, like,
a process of elimination.
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- Yeah, and I should point out,
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this is an exhibit
that celebrates hip-hop
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in the state of Wisconsin.
- Mm-hmm.
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- Including Madison,
because, you know,
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when you think hip-hop,
you think Wisconsin, right?
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- Yes, absolutely!
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- That's what I was thinking.
[laughter]
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- Not so much.
- Murv: No?
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Not even just a little bit?
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- Well,
what we are bringing forth
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will kind of illuminate it
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in a way that it hasn't been
celebrated before.
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- Murv: Yeah,
and this exhibit on display--
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and by the time this airs,
this thing will be packed up,
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more than likely someplace else.
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But it's very fitting
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that it's in the
Historical Society here,
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in the 50-year anniversary
of hip-hop.
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- Yeah.
- Murv: Why did you guys decide
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to bring things here?
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- So, we-- it all started
with a documentary story
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and a vision
that Menkhu Ara had.
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He wanted to tell
the story of hip-hop.
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And at the time,
I was away from Madison.
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I had moved away,
and I was having the same--
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I don't-- you know,
I was just feeling like
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there should be kind of legacy
or something.
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And we had a mutual friend,
and I told him,
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told the mutual friend
about my story,
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and he just so happened to tell
the mutual friend
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about his story.
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And he was like, "You know what?
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"Greg Doby got the same vision!
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We should put y'all,
put y'all together."
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And so, that's what happened.
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And then, he kind of
took the reins.
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- Murv: Yeah,
and it's so interesting.
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I'm a little older,
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a little ahead of you guys
on age,
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but I remember--
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I feel like--
I don't know.
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There maybe should be
a picture of me
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up in this exhibit somewhere
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'cause I was walking down
State Street in 1978
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with a boom box on my hip...
- We might have--
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we might got you
in one of these pictures.
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- Murv: ...carrying that thing
like a suitcase,
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[laughter]
blasting "Planet Rock"
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or whatever it was at that time.
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But it's interesting,
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like, living,
you don't think about
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the fact that you're kind of
living through this history
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that's gonna turn into
something really, really big,
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because a lot of people
didn't think hip-hop
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was gonna last.
- They didn't.
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People thought it was a fad,
but they were wrong.
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- I'd love
to get your insight
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on how did hip-hop
make its way to Madison.
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You know, because,
you know, we think of Madison,
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we think of, you know,
cheese and, you know,
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Badger sports, Badger football,
that kind of stuff.
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But how did hip-hop
make its way to Madison?
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- I think one of the people
who was instrumental
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is Anne B. Richardson.
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She's the first--
- Anne B!
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I used to listen to her.
- WORT.
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- Yes.
- Yeah.
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- And so--
- And I'll give you credit
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because I never saw Anne B.,
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never seen a picture of her ever
in my entire life
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until I saw her
in your documentary clip,
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in your trailer.
- Both: Yes.
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- She was kind of like Bigfoot.
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You know, you heard about it,
but you never saw her.
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- Yeah,
she's still like that.
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[laughter]
- And I saw it and I said,
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"So, that's what
Anne B. looks like.
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Oh, wow."
- Yeah.
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And so, kids in our community
would stay up late at night,
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even though they were tired,
just to record
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when she was gonna be
on the radio.
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So, she had a big impact.
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And then movies like
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Wild Style,
Beat Street, Breakin'.
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Once hip-hop
was shared nationwide,
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then I think that is the way
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that it started
to affect Madison.
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- Absolutely.
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So, she was the queen.
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She's the queen of hip-hop
for Madison.
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She introduced
the whole world of hip-hop
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to this culture,
to our community.
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- It was
the "Back Porch Radio."
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That was her slogan.
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Do you guys remember that?
- Yes, yes.
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You know, and we would take
the cassette tapes,
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one hand and the other,
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and then we would just
make mixtapes.
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- Murv: You know,
you beat me to it.
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[Greg laughs]
I wanted to see
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how much you knew about it
because we didn't have
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all the technology we have now
to record stuff.
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There was no YouTube.
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There was no internet.
[chuckles]
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- No.
- And so,
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I remember, you know,
she came on Friday nights.
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I wanna say it was from 10:00
until maybe like 1:00 A.M.,
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something like that.
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It may have even been 9:00.
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And, man, we'd get
our boom boxes together.
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And--
and we'd just wait.
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- And it was a skill,
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trying to put
them mixtapes together.
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[laughs]
- Murv: Yeah,
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because you wanted to do it
where there was no breaks,
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because we had no way
of editing that stuff.
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- Right.
- You know,
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and you just wait for your
favorite song to come on,
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and if you really
were going all in,
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you had to do it without
Anne B.'s voice being in it.
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- Greg: Right.
- Because when you play that--
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- You had to get your finger
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on that pause button
right there. [laughs]
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- Murv: So, that counts as part
of hip-hop history, huh?
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- Absolutely.
- Absolutely, absolutely.
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- Now, take me
through the exhibit
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in terms of how it was curated.
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First of all,
how many pieces in this exhibit?
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Do you guys know?
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Have you counted them, anybody?
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- We have not counted
'cause this iteration
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is an expansion
of our first installment.
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So, this is
the second installment.
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So, we've increased it.
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So, we have not
counted the pieces.
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And I think
that might be intentional
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because we're gonna continue
to expand the exhibit.
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- And where do you get
some of these--
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I see boom boxes
that look familiar to me.
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I saw some cassette tapes,
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and I definitely know
what those look like.
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Young, young people today have
no idea what that looks like.
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- No.
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And they come through the museum
and you'll be like,
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"You know what that is?"
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And they're like,
"I don't know what that is."
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And I go, "That's a Walkman!"
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And then we have 'em
touch the cassette
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and then they put it in there
and, you know, and they listen,
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and it's exciting.
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It was amazing to see, you know,
them light up
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and hear, like,
"Oh, this thing brings music!"
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And, you know--
- No, I love that--
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I love that we used to have
a little case for the cassettes.
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You know, you put 'em in
and you could walk around,
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you know,
and then you open it up
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and you only got, like,
two cassettes in there.
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- Mm-hmm.
- You know? [laughter]
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And I see--
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it's kind of a celebration
of not just the music,
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but it's also
the culture of hip-hop.
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What's the difference?
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- Well, the culture
includes break dancing,
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MCing, graffiti,
DJing, and then knowledge,
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which is really
the spiritual aspect of it,
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the history aspect to it,
the social activism,
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the education aspect to it.
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So, the culture is--
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rap is--
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rap is, like,
the commercial aspect to it.
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But the MC
was the messenger, right?
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The...
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MC means "move the crowd,"
or the master of ceremony.
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- Greg: Or the mic controller,
all of that.
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- Or the mic controller.
- Murv: Okay.
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- So, the culture
encompasses everything:
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the fashion, beatboxing,
all of those things.
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The culture is something
that you live.
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Rap might be just something
that anybody can do,
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to rhyme a word
with another word.
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But a culture of people
who really represent the culture
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and represent the people.
- Yeah.
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So, is there any way
to put a finger on the impact
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that Wisconsin has had
on the overall hip-hop movement?
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Has there been an impact
on that in Wisconsin?
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- Greg: Oh, definitely.
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So, what people
don't really realize,
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you got East Coast,
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everybody knows East Coast,
everybody knows West Coast,
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everybody knows the South.
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The Midwest kind of gets...
looked over.
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But we have the most
behind-the-scenes influence
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in hip-hop.
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So, for an example,
Clyde Stubblefield, right?
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"Funky Drummer."
- Murv: James Brown.
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- James Brown!
- Murv: On the one!
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- On the one!
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But Clyde Stubblefield
was right behind James Brown.
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He was the drummer
for James Brown,
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and he is the most sampled
musician in hip-hop.
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- Murv: And is he from Madison
or he had ties to Madison?
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- Menkhu Ara:
He lived here for...
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- Greg: He lived here for...
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- ...a long time.
- ...most of his life.
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- How did I miss that?
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- I don't know, bro,
[laughs] but he's here.
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He's been here.
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He's been a staple
in our community.
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And he is-- but he is
the foundation of hip-hop.
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- So, you think, like, that
lick that he does kind of...
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- [simulates drumming]
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That's in so many songs.
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That riff was
in so many songs.
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Madonna, Prince,
Michael Jackson.
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Like, you name it,
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they have sampled that beat,
you know,
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and that's part
of our hip-hop history.
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- Absolutely.
- Yeah,
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and I know there were
some local folks.
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We talked a little bit about,
you know, Johnny Winston,
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our retired firefighter friend.
245
00:09:48,856 --> 00:09:50,123
Johnny's, you know...
246
00:09:50,190 --> 00:09:51,792
- Yup, Johnny.
- ...your guys' age.
247
00:09:51,859 --> 00:09:54,194
He's a little younger than me,
but I remember when he had
248
00:09:54,261 --> 00:09:55,929
that little rap group.
249
00:09:55,996 --> 00:09:57,664
Was it Fresh Four?
- Greg: Fresh Force!
250
00:09:57,731 --> 00:09:59,199
- Murv: Fresh Force.
- Fresh Force.
251
00:09:59,266 --> 00:10:04,171
So, they were the first
rap group to get a record deal.
252
00:10:04,872 --> 00:10:07,374
They signed
with DJ International,
253
00:10:07,441 --> 00:10:09,443
which I think
was out of Chicago...
254
00:10:09,510 --> 00:10:10,878
- Murv: Really?
- ...but...
255
00:10:10,944 --> 00:10:13,313
- Murv: Was that
as teenagers then?
256
00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:15,215
- Yeah, yeah.
257
00:10:15,282 --> 00:10:19,953
So, they got signed to them
and, you know, they did albums,
258
00:10:20,020 --> 00:10:24,258
but at that time, it was this
hip-house sound.
259
00:10:25,125 --> 00:10:29,463
But then they were competing
with the West Coast gangsta rap,
260
00:10:29,530 --> 00:10:31,965
and we all know the story,
what-- who--
261
00:10:32,032 --> 00:10:34,201
what the sound ended up being.
- How big that got.
262
00:10:34,268 --> 00:10:35,435
Yeah, it got really big.
263
00:10:35,502 --> 00:10:38,539
- Well, does it,
does Wisconsin--
264
00:10:38,605 --> 00:10:41,575
you know,
did Wisconsin hip-hop/rap
265
00:10:41,642 --> 00:10:43,177
have its own kind of style?
266
00:10:43,243 --> 00:10:45,045
Was it any different than,
267
00:10:45,112 --> 00:10:46,446
you know,
anything that was going on
268
00:10:46,513 --> 00:10:48,248
in the East or West Coast
or the South?
269
00:10:48,315 --> 00:10:51,318
- I would--
I would say, the style
270
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,923
that you could kind of--
the Midwest sound
271
00:10:55,989 --> 00:10:58,025
where if you wanna be--
272
00:10:58,091 --> 00:11:01,328
the influence was kind of, like,
the Bone Thugs.
273
00:11:01,395 --> 00:11:06,600
So, all the stuff that's now,
the singing, rappy-type style,
274
00:11:06,667 --> 00:11:07,768
that's Midwest.
275
00:11:07,835 --> 00:11:08,936
The Drake, pshh.
276
00:11:09,002 --> 00:11:11,171
That was Bone Thugs
and them all.
277
00:11:11,238 --> 00:11:12,372
You know what I mean?
278
00:11:12,439 --> 00:11:13,707
Like, that was--
279
00:11:13,774 --> 00:11:16,376
if you wanna
put a sound to Midwest,
280
00:11:16,443 --> 00:11:19,646
I believe that was
the kind of the sound.
281
00:11:19,713 --> 00:11:22,816
The singing, rapping kind of...
- Murv: Yeah.
282
00:11:22,883 --> 00:11:25,085
- Trap, trap,
we influenced trap.
283
00:11:25,152 --> 00:11:27,154
There we go.
[laughs]
284
00:11:27,821 --> 00:11:30,924
- And there's
a producer from here
285
00:11:30,991 --> 00:11:36,463
that had a platinum plaque
with G-Unit artist Lloyd Banks,
286
00:11:37,231 --> 00:11:38,632
and that's Greg Doby right here.
287
00:11:38,699 --> 00:11:41,969
And so,
if you think about Karma,
288
00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:45,973
Karma, the record,
the platinum joint Karma,
289
00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:48,709
I think people liked
Lloyd Banks as an MC,
290
00:11:48,775 --> 00:11:52,646
but the hook was really
what made the song.
291
00:11:52,713 --> 00:11:53,947
- Murv: Yeah.
292
00:11:54,014 --> 00:11:56,717
Yeah, I think of,
when I think of, like--
293
00:11:56,783 --> 00:11:58,452
you know, kind of--
294
00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:00,821
nationally-known,
you know, artists
295
00:12:00,888 --> 00:12:02,289
that were kind of
MCing or whatever,
296
00:12:02,356 --> 00:12:05,959
I think of, you know, Speech
from Arrested Development.
297
00:12:06,026 --> 00:12:07,160
- Greg: Speech from
Arrested Development.
298
00:12:07,227 --> 00:12:08,328
Definitely.
299
00:12:08,395 --> 00:12:10,397
They're from Wisconsin.
300
00:12:10,464 --> 00:12:12,766
Matter of fact, they're
from Madison and Milwaukee.
301
00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:14,601
I went to school
with Aerle Taree
302
00:12:14,668 --> 00:12:16,170
at Memorial High School,
303
00:12:16,236 --> 00:12:19,573
and Speech was the DJ
for Kali Tribe,
304
00:12:20,741 --> 00:12:25,879
which was here in Madison
and used to battle Fresh Force.
305
00:12:25,946 --> 00:12:27,181
- Murv: Yeah.
- You know,
306
00:12:27,247 --> 00:12:32,052
but he lived in Milwaukee,
and the story that he told
307
00:12:33,654 --> 00:12:35,889
is that they were the first
rap group
308
00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:37,724
to come out of Atlanta.
309
00:12:37,791 --> 00:12:41,261
So, we birthed Atlanta hip-hop!
[laughs]
310
00:12:41,328 --> 00:12:44,264
'Cause that came from Wisconsin.
311
00:12:44,331 --> 00:12:46,600
And he just happened to move
to Atlanta during college.
312
00:12:46,667 --> 00:12:48,202
- Yeah, it's all linked,
I guess, huh?
313
00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:51,371
- Yeah, so we were being--
we've been shaping
314
00:12:51,438 --> 00:12:55,342
a lot of the popular
hip-hop scene for decades.
315
00:12:55,409 --> 00:12:56,743
- Yeah, we've been in the mix.
316
00:12:56,810 --> 00:12:58,946
- Yeah, I feel like you don't
get all these artifacts
317
00:12:59,012 --> 00:13:00,647
without there being
some sort of an influence.
318
00:13:00,714 --> 00:13:01,982
And I've seen--
319
00:13:02,049 --> 00:13:03,784
you know, of course,
we've got the boom boxes.
320
00:13:03,851 --> 00:13:07,588
I see the cassette tapes,
I saw some sneakers.
321
00:13:07,654 --> 00:13:09,623
I saw a couple of turntables
over there.
322
00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:11,625
What's the most impressive part
about this exhibit
323
00:13:11,692 --> 00:13:14,161
that you guys are proud of?
324
00:13:14,661 --> 00:13:18,866
- Well, we got to be proud
of the 3D lenticular pieces,
325
00:13:18,932 --> 00:13:20,834
the "Madtown Marauders."
326
00:13:20,901 --> 00:13:22,970
And so, Greg had this great idea
327
00:13:23,036 --> 00:13:27,007
inspired by A Tribe Called
Quest's Midnight Marauders.
328
00:13:27,074 --> 00:13:32,112
And so, we got DJs, MCs,
graffiti artists, producers
329
00:13:32,179 --> 00:13:34,915
all come together,
the headphones on,
330
00:13:34,982 --> 00:13:37,117
and we got their headshots.
331
00:13:37,184 --> 00:13:38,752
And the lenticular piece,
332
00:13:38,819 --> 00:13:41,555
when you look at it
and you move your head,
333
00:13:41,622 --> 00:13:43,590
their head moves as well.
334
00:13:43,657 --> 00:13:46,460
So, we are all about, you know,
335
00:13:47,294 --> 00:13:50,497
respecting the pioneers
ahead of us.
336
00:13:50,564 --> 00:13:53,400
And so, also in this exhibit,
337
00:13:53,467 --> 00:13:55,302
we're bringing everybody
together.
338
00:13:55,369 --> 00:13:59,039
The 3D lenticular piece
and the exhibit
339
00:14:00,140 --> 00:14:01,675
is a tribute, right?
340
00:14:01,742 --> 00:14:04,511
It's-- the legacy
can't be forgotten.
341
00:14:04,578 --> 00:14:06,246
And so, it's, you know,
342
00:14:06,313 --> 00:14:08,649
making sure
we remember the journey.
343
00:14:08,715 --> 00:14:10,317
Fifty years is a long time.
344
00:14:10,384 --> 00:14:13,854
And still, hip-hop is probably
the loudest voice
345
00:14:13,921 --> 00:14:15,522
in music 'til today.
346
00:14:15,589 --> 00:14:19,126
- Why do you think people
thought it might not last?
347
00:14:19,193 --> 00:14:23,230
- Well, so hip-hop was birthed
in the Bronx, New York,
348
00:14:23,297 --> 00:14:25,132
and when hip-hop was birthed,
349
00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:29,269
the conditions were worse
than a Third World country.
350
00:14:29,336 --> 00:14:33,140
And so, because African American
and Latino youth
351
00:14:33,207 --> 00:14:35,509
were at the forefront
of the movement,
352
00:14:35,576 --> 00:14:38,212
and the labels hadn't
bought into hip-hop
353
00:14:38,278 --> 00:14:39,546
at this time,
354
00:14:39,613 --> 00:14:41,748
and so that's why
they probably thought
355
00:14:41,815 --> 00:14:44,918
it was just gonna be a fad
or a trend,
356
00:14:44,985 --> 00:14:48,355
because it didn't have, like,
the long-lasting tradition
357
00:14:48,422 --> 00:14:51,892
of, like, jazz or R&B
or rock 'n' roll.
358
00:14:52,793 --> 00:14:56,263
It's this new genre
that was emerging
359
00:14:56,330 --> 00:14:57,598
and it came out of nowhere.
360
00:14:57,664 --> 00:14:59,199
- Greg: It came out
of the struggle.
361
00:14:59,266 --> 00:15:00,801
- Yes.
- You know, when you have
362
00:15:00,868 --> 00:15:02,836
pain and...
- Murv: Wait, Madison.
363
00:15:02,903 --> 00:15:04,471
They're struggling in Madison?
364
00:15:04,538 --> 00:15:07,875
- Oh, it's
still struggles. [laughs]
365
00:15:07,941 --> 00:15:11,545
- The social, economic
and political conditions
366
00:15:11,612 --> 00:15:13,280
here in Madison,
367
00:15:14,615 --> 00:15:16,149
a lot of people
don't know about it,
368
00:15:16,216 --> 00:15:18,151
but Madison definitely
has its struggles.
369
00:15:18,218 --> 00:15:19,953
- I just know
when I went to college
370
00:15:20,020 --> 00:15:21,855
at Southern University,
Baton Rouge, Louisiana,
371
00:15:21,922 --> 00:15:23,590
the largest
predominantly Black college,
372
00:15:23,657 --> 00:15:26,460
I'd tell people that I'm from
the urban ghettos of Madison,
373
00:15:26,527 --> 00:15:28,228
and it never really
went over that well.
374
00:15:28,295 --> 00:15:31,098
They'd kind of...
[laughter]
375
00:15:31,832 --> 00:15:35,936
- Well, we have a history
of redlining in Madison.
376
00:15:36,003 --> 00:15:38,372
There's a lot of poverty
in Madison,
377
00:15:38,438 --> 00:15:40,474
just like bigger cities.
- Yeah,
378
00:15:40,541 --> 00:15:43,210
I would think
the story is pretty similar
379
00:15:43,277 --> 00:15:44,878
throughout, you know,
the neighborhoods
380
00:15:44,945 --> 00:15:46,580
that are impacted
by hip-hop, right?
381
00:15:46,647 --> 00:15:48,649
- Menkhu Ara: Absolutely.
- Greg: Yeah, absolutely.
382
00:15:48,715 --> 00:15:51,418
- Yeah, and as I walked through
the exhibit, I noticed
383
00:15:51,485 --> 00:15:55,189
the hip-hop scene here
also has a lot of diversity,
384
00:15:55,255 --> 00:15:58,926
a lot of different
ethnicities, genders,
385
00:15:58,992 --> 00:16:00,093
and those sorts of things.
386
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,495
Tell me a little bit about that.
387
00:16:01,562 --> 00:16:04,765
- So, what people
don't realize is that hip-hop
388
00:16:04,831 --> 00:16:10,037
is the only music genre
that touches every music genre:
389
00:16:10,103 --> 00:16:12,105
jazz, blues, gospel.
390
00:16:12,606 --> 00:16:14,575
Now, it's country.
391
00:16:14,641 --> 00:16:17,010
You know,
the hottest hits right now
392
00:16:17,077 --> 00:16:18,212
are hip-hop influenced,
393
00:16:18,278 --> 00:16:19,613
and it's country, you know?
- Yes.
394
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,483
- So, it touches the gamut
of every genre,
395
00:16:24,585 --> 00:16:27,654
and it's relatable
to every person.
396
00:16:27,721 --> 00:16:30,958
And it's not just
a national thing,
397
00:16:32,526 --> 00:16:34,895
it's an international culture
now.
398
00:16:34,962 --> 00:16:37,331
You know,
we were in the Olympics.
399
00:16:37,397 --> 00:16:38,999
Snoop Dogg's the face.
- I saw that
400
00:16:39,066 --> 00:16:41,902
Australian breakdancer
representing hip-hop.
401
00:16:41,969 --> 00:16:45,606
- Greg: [laughs] Yeah, man,
We won't talk about that.
402
00:16:45,672 --> 00:16:47,407
We won't talk about that.
- We're not happy
403
00:16:47,474 --> 00:16:50,777
about the selection process
for the Olympics.
404
00:16:50,844 --> 00:16:52,579
- But if that's
the best person they have,
405
00:16:52,646 --> 00:16:53,981
that's just
the best they have, right?
406
00:16:54,047 --> 00:16:55,782
- Greg: Well, I guess,
well, you know--
407
00:16:55,849 --> 00:16:58,085
[grumbles]
somebody could have...
408
00:16:58,151 --> 00:17:00,287
- Murv: So, what do you say,
I move to Australia,
409
00:17:00,354 --> 00:17:01,889
I might be somebody over there
doing breakdancing.
410
00:17:01,955 --> 00:17:03,056
You never know.
- Right.
411
00:17:03,123 --> 00:17:04,224
So, but it's just...
412
00:17:04,291 --> 00:17:06,226
- Murv: No, that speaks
to the world nature of...
413
00:17:06,293 --> 00:17:08,862
- Absolutely, absolutely.
414
00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:12,399
You know,
so we're part of every niche
415
00:17:12,466 --> 00:17:14,401
of fabric of the human race.
416
00:17:14,468 --> 00:17:16,203
- Yes.
[Greg laughs]
417
00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:17,404
- Yeah, and where do you--
418
00:17:17,471 --> 00:17:19,673
what would you describe
where things are now
419
00:17:19,740 --> 00:17:23,977
with hip-hop in Wisconsin
and the scene here?
420
00:17:24,645 --> 00:17:28,982
Has it grown considerably since
those infancy days 50 years ago?
421
00:17:29,049 --> 00:17:30,250
- Menkhu Ara: I believe so.
422
00:17:30,317 --> 00:17:33,387
So, one of the big things
that's happening in Madison
423
00:17:33,453 --> 00:17:37,824
is there's a campaign
to make Madison a music city.
424
00:17:37,891 --> 00:17:40,227
And so, we want, you know,
425
00:17:41,361 --> 00:17:43,597
hip-hop to have
a bigger presence here.
426
00:17:43,664 --> 00:17:48,268
And so, lots of things
by community organizations
427
00:17:48,335 --> 00:17:50,504
and organizations like ours
428
00:17:50,571 --> 00:17:54,074
are fighting
to make hip-hop more accessible
429
00:17:54,141 --> 00:17:55,742
to the youth here in Madison.
430
00:17:55,809 --> 00:17:58,045
- Yeah, and do you guys--
431
00:17:58,345 --> 00:18:00,914
I saw a bunch
of heads and figures
432
00:18:00,981 --> 00:18:02,850
on one of the boards out here.
433
00:18:02,916 --> 00:18:05,853
Is that, do you have
a Madison Hip-Hop Hall of Fame
434
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:07,254
kind of board
that you've been building,
435
00:18:07,321 --> 00:18:09,189
or Wisconsin Hip-Hop
Hall of Fame board
436
00:18:09,256 --> 00:18:10,824
that you've been building?
437
00:18:10,891 --> 00:18:13,627
- We've been connecting
with a lot of the organizations
438
00:18:13,694 --> 00:18:15,362
around town.
439
00:18:16,129 --> 00:18:21,602
Part of establishing a board
is to have hip-hop have a home.
440
00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:23,971
We don't have a home right now.
441
00:18:24,037 --> 00:18:25,439
We're still kind of like nomads.
442
00:18:25,506 --> 00:18:27,608
We're floating around,
we're going here and here,
443
00:18:27,674 --> 00:18:30,844
and trying to get the word out,
but we want a home.
444
00:18:30,911 --> 00:18:33,747
And part of getting us together
is to have a home
445
00:18:33,814 --> 00:18:36,650
and to control the narrative
a little bit.
446
00:18:36,717 --> 00:18:38,185
- 'Cause this is
a mobile exhibit.
447
00:18:38,252 --> 00:18:39,386
You guys kind of take it
448
00:18:39,453 --> 00:18:40,988
kind of wherever
you can find a space
449
00:18:41,054 --> 00:18:42,589
and let it sit for a little bit
450
00:18:42,656 --> 00:18:44,191
and let people come in
and experience it?
451
00:18:44,258 --> 00:18:47,160
- Yeah, WHS has been
a great ally
452
00:18:47,794 --> 00:18:50,130
and a great partner, to--
453
00:18:50,631 --> 00:18:53,901
you know, it's about history
and they see the richness
454
00:18:53,967 --> 00:18:55,602
of what we're bringing in.
455
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:59,373
So, mostly we've been working
out of their circuits,
456
00:18:59,439 --> 00:19:02,843
but this--
we have plans on expanding
457
00:19:02,910 --> 00:19:06,113
and going outside
of different venues
458
00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:08,882
and making this
a long-term thing.
459
00:19:08,949 --> 00:19:12,052
- Yeah, we definitely want
to thank Angela Titus
460
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,588
here at the
Wisconsin Historical Society.
461
00:19:14,655 --> 00:19:16,823
They have been
our biggest supporter
462
00:19:16,890 --> 00:19:18,792
in the work
that we're currently doing.
463
00:19:18,859 --> 00:19:20,127
- Murv: Nice.
464
00:19:20,194 --> 00:19:22,529
And then, I talked to you guys
a little bit off camera
465
00:19:22,596 --> 00:19:25,098
and I was kind of joking around,
but back in my day--
466
00:19:25,165 --> 00:19:26,366
I hate to say that,
467
00:19:26,433 --> 00:19:28,769
I'm at that age now,
I can say "back in my day."
468
00:19:28,836 --> 00:19:30,571
[laughter]
You know, 'cause, again,
469
00:19:30,637 --> 00:19:32,840
I was around when
this thing started, you know,
470
00:19:32,906 --> 00:19:35,075
and we had this thing
on the south side of Madison.
471
00:19:35,142 --> 00:19:37,511
You know, Jesse Green used
to have these parties for $2.
472
00:19:37,578 --> 00:19:40,547
And anybody out there
that grew up on the south side,
473
00:19:40,614 --> 00:19:42,883
they know about Jesse Green's
parties back in the day,
474
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:47,855
$2, you know, and it was
the highlight of the month
475
00:19:47,921 --> 00:19:49,489
if Jesse Green had a party.
476
00:19:49,556 --> 00:19:53,794
And his number-one DJ was
a guy named Baron Patterson.
477
00:19:53,861 --> 00:19:55,996
And if y'all don't put
Baron Patterson
478
00:19:56,063 --> 00:19:57,698
[imitates elderly man]
in that Hall of Fame,
479
00:19:57,764 --> 00:19:59,399
then something's wrong
with this--
480
00:19:59,466 --> 00:20:01,134
[laughter]
481
00:20:02,636 --> 00:20:04,905
I mean, Baron Patterson
would have put that, you know,
482
00:20:04,972 --> 00:20:07,140
"Planet Rock" on
and all that other stuff on,
483
00:20:07,207 --> 00:20:09,209
and we'd be up in there
sweating and--
484
00:20:09,276 --> 00:20:11,011
back then, I could
get down to the floor
485
00:20:11,078 --> 00:20:13,146
and, you know, work that thing.
- Uh-huh, uh-huh.
486
00:20:13,213 --> 00:20:16,049
- You know, and we'd get home
at 2 o'clock in the morning.
487
00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:18,085
You know, our parents
would still be asleep
488
00:20:18,151 --> 00:20:19,887
and they didn't know
what time we come home.
489
00:20:19,953 --> 00:20:21,054
Don't tell nobody, but...
[chuckles]
490
00:20:21,121 --> 00:20:22,256
- Greg: Sneaking
through the window.
491
00:20:22,322 --> 00:20:23,423
Yeah, yeah...
492
00:20:23,490 --> 00:20:25,626
- But it was--
Man, it was so much fun, though.
493
00:20:25,692 --> 00:20:27,828
It was so much fun
just being a part of it.
494
00:20:27,895 --> 00:20:29,263
And I remember,
495
00:20:29,329 --> 00:20:31,298
they had these shirts called
John Wayne shirts.
496
00:20:31,365 --> 00:20:33,300
Is that ringing a bell
for either of you guys?
497
00:20:33,367 --> 00:20:34,701
You remember those shirts?
- Oh, yeah.
498
00:20:34,768 --> 00:20:36,503
- Yeah, they were these
shirts that you could--
499
00:20:36,570 --> 00:20:37,905
they had, like, a flap on 'em.
500
00:20:37,971 --> 00:20:40,107
I don't even know why they
called them John Wayne shirts,
501
00:20:40,174 --> 00:20:41,275
but you could button it
502
00:20:41,341 --> 00:20:43,076
to where it could be
all the way up,
503
00:20:43,143 --> 00:20:44,244
or you could button it
504
00:20:44,311 --> 00:20:45,846
to where it'd be
flapped over this way
505
00:20:45,913 --> 00:20:47,080
or flapped over this way.
506
00:20:47,147 --> 00:20:49,283
And it was kind of--
it would give you, you know,
507
00:20:49,349 --> 00:20:50,584
six different looks
in one shirt,
508
00:20:50,651 --> 00:20:51,985
and there was still somebody
gonna say,
509
00:20:52,052 --> 00:20:53,987
"That's the same shirt
you had on last night, man.
510
00:20:54,054 --> 00:20:55,789
"Just 'cause you
flipped it over the other way
511
00:20:55,856 --> 00:20:57,191
don't mean
it's not the same shirt."
512
00:20:57,257 --> 00:20:58,392
- Didn't Theo
from The Huxtables
513
00:20:58,458 --> 00:20:59,593
have that shirt?
- Murv: Probably.
514
00:20:59,660 --> 00:21:01,428
[Greg laughs]
That would have been,
515
00:21:01,495 --> 00:21:03,397
that would have been
probably around that time.
516
00:21:03,463 --> 00:21:05,132
- We had
parachute pants back then.
517
00:21:05,199 --> 00:21:06,867
- Ooh, parachute pants,
I remember those too.
518
00:21:06,934 --> 00:21:08,669
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I remember that.
519
00:21:08,735 --> 00:21:10,070
We had some...
- And Hammer pants.
520
00:21:10,137 --> 00:21:11,271
Did you have some Hammer pants?
521
00:21:11,338 --> 00:21:13,073
- I had Hammer pants.
- Murv: I didn't.
522
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:14,274
That's not--
that wasn't for me.
523
00:21:14,341 --> 00:21:18,045
That's not for--
Tyat was-- [laughter]
524
00:21:18,111 --> 00:21:19,379
I just wear these.
525
00:21:19,446 --> 00:21:20,948
I just wear these
old raggedy jeans
526
00:21:21,014 --> 00:21:22,115
is what I've been wearing.
527
00:21:22,182 --> 00:21:23,717
- Greg: That's where
you draw the line?
528
00:21:23,784 --> 00:21:25,319
[laughter]
529
00:21:25,385 --> 00:21:27,521
- So, where do you guys
think things are headed now?
530
00:21:27,588 --> 00:21:29,790
Where's this
genre of music headed,
531
00:21:29,857 --> 00:21:33,293
especially here
in the state of Wisconsin?
532
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,029
- Well, it's definitely--
533
00:21:36,096 --> 00:21:38,098
like I said,
it's definitely expanding.
534
00:21:38,165 --> 00:21:41,502
It's definitely touched
every creed and race.
535
00:21:41,568 --> 00:21:43,237
And, you know,
like, when you hear--
536
00:21:43,303 --> 00:21:45,572
I didn't think we'd ever hear
hip-hop and country,
537
00:21:45,639 --> 00:21:49,009
but it's there,
you know what I mean?
538
00:21:49,076 --> 00:21:52,546
I just see it
just unifying actually.
539
00:21:54,081 --> 00:21:57,417
I think hip-hop
is a unifying genre.
540
00:21:58,151 --> 00:22:01,622
It is the only genre
that is unifying.
541
00:22:02,155 --> 00:22:03,323
I just said it.
542
00:22:03,390 --> 00:22:05,692
It's the only genre
that's unifying us right now.
543
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:07,895
- I think too...
- And it has a voice, yeah...
544
00:22:07,961 --> 00:22:10,264
- I think also,
to add on what Greg is saying,
545
00:22:10,330 --> 00:22:15,235
I think with AI emerging,
I think it's an opportunity
546
00:22:17,037 --> 00:22:20,607
for MCs to be
even more lyrical, right?
547
00:22:21,275 --> 00:22:25,179
So, to make sure we continue
to stand ahead
548
00:22:27,381 --> 00:22:29,349
and stand apart from everything.
549
00:22:29,416 --> 00:22:31,185
So, I think
we're getting back to--
550
00:22:31,251 --> 00:22:33,921
away from all the gimmicks.
551
00:22:33,987 --> 00:22:37,424
Now really getting more
into the poetry aspect
552
00:22:37,491 --> 00:22:39,426
of writing rhymes.
- Yeah,
553
00:22:39,493 --> 00:22:41,195
and it's coming back
to the essence,
554
00:22:41,261 --> 00:22:44,965
you know,
the roots of hip-hop being--
555
00:22:47,334 --> 00:22:49,670
you know what I wanna say.
556
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:51,171
- Authentic?
- No.
557
00:22:51,238 --> 00:22:53,607
Authentic, but the phrase--
558
00:22:53,674 --> 00:22:54,942
What's the phrase for hip-hop?
559
00:22:55,008 --> 00:22:56,610
Why am I drawing a blank?
560
00:22:56,677 --> 00:22:58,412
- Murv: It happens to me
all the time.
561
00:22:58,478 --> 00:23:01,448
- Peace, love, and having fun.
562
00:23:01,515 --> 00:23:02,783
- Absolutely,
that's where it starts.
563
00:23:02,850 --> 00:23:05,652
- Peace, love,
and having fun.
564
00:23:06,019 --> 00:23:07,487
That's the foundation.
565
00:23:07,554 --> 00:23:09,323
And it's coming back
full circle.
566
00:23:09,389 --> 00:23:10,490
- Murv: Yeah.
567
00:23:10,557 --> 00:23:11,692
What are your thoughts on AI
568
00:23:11,758 --> 00:23:13,727
in terms of
how it's impacting hip-hop?
569
00:23:13,794 --> 00:23:15,796
- Well, I mean,
I haven't really engaged
570
00:23:15,863 --> 00:23:17,531
with AI very much.
571
00:23:17,598 --> 00:23:21,001
I know Greg is really good
at experimenting...
572
00:23:21,068 --> 00:23:22,803
- Murv: We should let him
answer that then.
573
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:24,338
- ...using technology, yes.
- Murv: Greg?
574
00:23:24,404 --> 00:23:26,073
- AI is a tool.
575
00:23:28,675 --> 00:23:30,277
And it's all about
how you use it.
576
00:23:30,344 --> 00:23:32,012
You know,
there's a lot of debate.
577
00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:34,248
"Oh, I ain't never using AI."
578
00:23:34,314 --> 00:23:38,218
It's diminishing,
you know, the culture.
579
00:23:38,719 --> 00:23:43,090
It's diminishing, you know,
the humanity and soul of it.
580
00:23:43,156 --> 00:23:49,029
But what we have to understand
is we're still controlling AI.
581
00:23:49,096 --> 00:23:51,498
You know what I mean?
- Murv: It's got to do
582
00:23:51,565 --> 00:23:53,100
what we tell it, right?
- We're still--
583
00:23:53,166 --> 00:23:54,701
it's got to do what we tell it.
584
00:23:54,768 --> 00:23:57,905
So, it still has
a human form to it.
585
00:23:58,572 --> 00:24:04,244
Now, it's becoming musically
maybe a little bit too perfect.
586
00:24:05,345 --> 00:24:07,247
I think the...
- It reminds me of, like,
587
00:24:07,314 --> 00:24:09,183
when, you know,
when the CD came out,
588
00:24:09,249 --> 00:24:11,451
you know,
we had records and albums,
589
00:24:11,518 --> 00:24:13,787
and the CD came out
and it was so pure
590
00:24:13,854 --> 00:24:15,289
and so--
there was no static,
591
00:24:15,355 --> 00:24:18,959
there was no subtle [whirrs]
that little fuzz you hear
592
00:24:19,026 --> 00:24:20,761
at the beginning
when you put a record on.
593
00:24:20,827 --> 00:24:24,198
And to me, part of that fuzz
is part of the music,
594
00:24:24,264 --> 00:24:26,166
it's part of the sound.
595
00:24:26,233 --> 00:24:27,334
And I think that...
596
00:24:27,401 --> 00:24:28,535
- Greg: That's what's
gonna happen.
597
00:24:28,602 --> 00:24:30,337
- I think that level
of perfection takes away
598
00:24:30,404 --> 00:24:34,174
from the rawness of what,
you know, music in general is.
599
00:24:34,241 --> 00:24:35,909
- Greg: Yeah, man.
600
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:39,880
It's gonna evolve
and be a new sound,
601
00:24:39,947 --> 00:24:42,382
just like anything
with technology.
602
00:24:42,449 --> 00:24:44,451
You know,
the musicians used to say,
603
00:24:44,518 --> 00:24:46,854
"[scoffs] Oh, you're using
that beat machine.
604
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,255
Like, what is that?"
605
00:24:48,322 --> 00:24:49,523
You know what I--
606
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:52,526
but it evolved and it became
a part of the culture.
607
00:24:52,593 --> 00:24:55,162
I think AI is going to evolve
608
00:24:56,263 --> 00:24:58,465
and it'll be a part
of the new culture
609
00:24:58,532 --> 00:25:00,234
and us old schoolers
are gonna be like,
610
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:01,401
"Man, what you doing?"
611
00:25:01,468 --> 00:25:02,569
You know what I mean?
612
00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:03,971
But it's gonna have its sound.
613
00:25:04,037 --> 00:25:07,508
- I think it's a situation, too,
where
614
00:25:09,543 --> 00:25:13,180
we still need
to wait and see, right?
615
00:25:13,247 --> 00:25:15,682
Because we...
- Murv: It's been 50 years!
616
00:25:15,749 --> 00:25:17,885
How much more time...
- Menkhu Ara: 50 years of AI?
617
00:25:17,951 --> 00:25:20,487
- Oh, no, not AI, I'm sorry.
- Menkhu Ara: No, I'm saying
618
00:25:20,554 --> 00:25:22,289
with the AI...
- Murv: We're talking about AI.
619
00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:23,457
- ...we haven't fully seen
620
00:25:23,524 --> 00:25:25,259
what the young folks
can do with it, right?
621
00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:27,261
They might-- they may be able
to use that tool
622
00:25:27,327 --> 00:25:31,465
and do something that really
takes us in a cool direction.
623
00:25:31,532 --> 00:25:32,666
- Yeah, I feel like it's--
624
00:25:32,733 --> 00:25:34,868
you know, the people
that are looking to cheat,
625
00:25:34,935 --> 00:25:36,203
they cheat with it.
626
00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:38,539
And then the people that,
you know,
627
00:25:38,605 --> 00:25:40,407
are purists with the music,
628
00:25:40,474 --> 00:25:42,943
you know,
they look to use it to enhance.
629
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:47,614
And I think it might matter
whose hands it's in, I guess.
630
00:25:47,681 --> 00:25:50,651
- Yeah, and, you know,
for me, I'm a musician.
631
00:25:50,717 --> 00:25:52,386
I'm a producer.
632
00:25:52,719 --> 00:25:57,858
And I use AI, and I think
it's helped to elevate my music.
633
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,596
You know,
where I would have to find
634
00:26:04,798 --> 00:26:07,868
maybe a bass player
or a musician
635
00:26:07,935 --> 00:26:11,738
that could match my skill.
- Murv: Right.
636
00:26:13,140 --> 00:26:15,475
- Now, it's a click
of a button and it helps me,
637
00:26:15,542 --> 00:26:17,678
and now I can get
the sound that I want.
638
00:26:17,744 --> 00:26:22,015
Or right now,
I'm dipping into gospel music.
639
00:26:22,082 --> 00:26:24,384
I don't have to find
a whole choir.
640
00:26:24,451 --> 00:26:27,521
I can, you know,
write what I want to,
641
00:26:27,588 --> 00:26:29,723
tell it what I wanna do,
and I can have it.
642
00:26:29,790 --> 00:26:31,792
And so, now
it's elevated my music
643
00:26:31,859 --> 00:26:33,527
and it's taking less time
644
00:26:33,594 --> 00:26:36,363
and I can release
more music faster.
645
00:26:36,430 --> 00:26:37,731
- Murv: Yeah.
646
00:26:37,798 --> 00:26:41,468
Does hip-hop reach across the
entire state of Wisconsin?
647
00:26:41,535 --> 00:26:44,271
Like, does it get way up north,
up to Superior and way up there
648
00:26:44,338 --> 00:26:46,840
and all these other places?
- Where's Mazomanie?
649
00:26:46,907 --> 00:26:48,008
Is that up north?
650
00:26:48,075 --> 00:26:49,676
Where is that?
- Murv: I think Mazomanie
651
00:26:49,743 --> 00:26:51,011
is halfway between here
and Minneapolis,
652
00:26:51,078 --> 00:26:52,312
if I'm not mistaken.
653
00:26:52,379 --> 00:26:53,981
Is it, or am I thinking
Menomonie?
654
00:26:54,047 --> 00:26:55,148
I get 'em confused.
655
00:26:55,215 --> 00:26:58,585
- Well, one of the greats
is from Mazomanie...
656
00:26:58,652 --> 00:27:00,587
- Murv: Brandon, you should
jump in and answer that.
657
00:27:00,654 --> 00:27:02,456
You should know this.
[Greg laughs]
658
00:27:02,523 --> 00:27:03,790
That's Camera Two over there.
659
00:27:03,857 --> 00:27:06,693
- I mentioned Mazomanie
because there's a young lady
660
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,495
named Skylar Grey.
- Murv: Oh, yeah.
661
00:27:08,562 --> 00:27:11,565
- And she came
from Mazomanie,
662
00:27:11,632 --> 00:27:14,635
and she is one
of the songwriters
663
00:27:15,035 --> 00:27:16,904
behind some of the great
hip-hop artists:
664
00:27:16,970 --> 00:27:20,874
Eminem, P. Diddy, Dr. Dre.
- Menkhu Ara: Rihanna.
665
00:27:20,941 --> 00:27:22,609
- Rihanna.
666
00:27:23,010 --> 00:27:25,946
Rihanna's biggest hit,
it was written by Skylar Grey.
667
00:27:26,013 --> 00:27:27,514
- Murv: What?
- Man, see?
668
00:27:27,581 --> 00:27:29,049
This is things that people--
669
00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:33,320
Wisconsin is the backbone
to a lot of hip-hop hits
670
00:27:33,387 --> 00:27:34,955
that we don't even know,
671
00:27:35,022 --> 00:27:37,491
that the general public
just don't know that
672
00:27:37,558 --> 00:27:40,894
we're in the mix.
- Murv: Yeah, so...
673
00:27:41,595 --> 00:27:43,063
- Greg: I...
- Go ahead.
674
00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:44,998
- I think it reaches.
675
00:27:45,065 --> 00:27:47,768
- I think I've seen some rappers
come out of Green Bay.
676
00:27:47,835 --> 00:27:49,536
That's north.
- I think...
677
00:27:49,603 --> 00:27:52,005
isn't there a rapper
come out of Canada--
678
00:27:52,072 --> 00:27:53,674
that came down from Canada,
679
00:27:53,740 --> 00:27:55,542
and maybe he had
to come through Wisconsin?
680
00:27:55,609 --> 00:27:59,079
Mm, maybe, like, named
Drake or somebody? [laughs]
681
00:27:59,146 --> 00:28:01,481
- Murv: I was thinking Drake,
but I didn't know that was--
682
00:28:01,548 --> 00:28:02,649
I didn't know all that.
683
00:28:02,716 --> 00:28:04,685
- We up north, it's...
- Yeah,
684
00:28:04,751 --> 00:28:06,887
we're really close, yeah.
- We're close.
685
00:28:06,954 --> 00:28:09,256
It had to come down.
- Murv: So, we claiming that?
686
00:28:09,323 --> 00:28:10,424
- We're claiming it.
687
00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:11,825
I don't know
about claiming Canada,
688
00:28:11,892 --> 00:28:15,295
but I'll claim that--
yeah, Drake. [laughs]
689
00:28:15,362 --> 00:28:17,097
- Wisconsin's
close enough to Canada,
690
00:28:17,164 --> 00:28:20,834
but maybe not Toronto, but
[laughter]
691
00:28:20,901 --> 00:28:22,069
Drake might have
something--
692
00:28:22,135 --> 00:28:23,670
Drake might have
something to say about this.
693
00:28:23,737 --> 00:28:24,838
- Greg: He might.
694
00:28:24,905 --> 00:28:26,006
Let him say something.
[laughs]
695
00:28:26,073 --> 00:28:28,008
- Murv: That'd be good
for all of us, right?
696
00:28:28,075 --> 00:28:30,644
- Drake, Drake?
[laughter]
697
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,414
- So, what happens next, guys?
698
00:28:34,481 --> 00:28:35,983
Where does this go from here?
699
00:28:36,049 --> 00:28:38,151
What do you think?
- We are
700
00:28:38,218 --> 00:28:40,888
doing all the diligence
necessary
701
00:28:40,954 --> 00:28:43,690
for us to have
a permanent location,
702
00:28:43,757 --> 00:28:45,959
a multi-purpose location
703
00:28:46,026 --> 00:28:49,596
where we'll have
the hip-hop exhibit,
704
00:28:50,030 --> 00:28:54,301
we'll have a Hall of Fame,
a coworking space,
705
00:28:54,368 --> 00:28:58,405
studios, video studios,
recording studio.
706
00:28:58,472 --> 00:29:01,375
We want to have our own location
707
00:29:02,609 --> 00:29:05,812
that tourists can come,
learn about hip-hop.
708
00:29:05,879 --> 00:29:08,248
We'll have
after-school programs,
709
00:29:08,315 --> 00:29:09,416
things of that nature.
710
00:29:09,483 --> 00:29:11,385
So, that is our goal.
711
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:15,756
- Yeah, and under the radar,
we're working
712
00:29:15,822 --> 00:29:19,426
with some of the other
hip-hop museums.
713
00:29:19,493 --> 00:29:24,731
A architect that is working
with the New York and the D.C.
714
00:29:25,966 --> 00:29:30,871
has also reached out to us
and is going to be helping us
715
00:29:31,672 --> 00:29:32,906
on our journey as well.
716
00:29:32,973 --> 00:29:34,975
So, we will have a staple here.
717
00:29:35,042 --> 00:29:38,378
It is-- we will have--
hip-hop will have a home.
718
00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:42,482
- Yeah, and then as far as you
kind of, you know,
719
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:45,519
cultivating more kinds
of artifacts for this exhibit,
720
00:29:45,586 --> 00:29:49,656
what kinds of stuff
would you be happy to receive
721
00:29:49,723 --> 00:29:51,358
as donations
from people out there
722
00:29:51,425 --> 00:29:55,896
that might have a pair of old
MC Hammer baggy parachute pants?
723
00:29:55,963 --> 00:29:58,532
- Well,
we were recently interviewed
724
00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:02,803
by Jonathan Gramling,
The Capital City Hues,
725
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:06,306
and I think he did
one of the last interviews
726
00:30:06,373 --> 00:30:10,110
with Clyde Stubblefield
before he transitioned.
727
00:30:10,177 --> 00:30:13,981
And so, after our interview,
he was like,
728
00:30:14,748 --> 00:30:18,051
"I have a drumstick
from Clyde Stubblefield
729
00:30:18,118 --> 00:30:20,287
that I wanna donate
to you guys."
730
00:30:20,354 --> 00:30:21,889
So, we're super excited
731
00:30:21,955 --> 00:30:24,591
'cause it also is gonna have
the article that he wrote.
732
00:30:24,658 --> 00:30:27,895
And so, Clyde was on the
front cover of the article
733
00:30:27,961 --> 00:30:29,496
that he did
with Clyde Stubblefield.
734
00:30:29,563 --> 00:30:32,266
So, he's going to gift us that
735
00:30:32,332 --> 00:30:34,067
and we're super excited
about that.
736
00:30:34,134 --> 00:30:37,204
- Yeah, and that's
how organic it's been happening.
737
00:30:37,271 --> 00:30:40,140
You know, we meet people and
they hear about what we're doing
738
00:30:40,207 --> 00:30:43,977
and they're like,
"Oh, I got this, I got that,"
739
00:30:44,044 --> 00:30:45,345
you know?
740
00:30:45,412 --> 00:30:50,017
And, like, a friend of ours
just gave us a whole library
741
00:30:50,083 --> 00:30:53,554
of just hip-hop magazines
and books.
742
00:30:54,955 --> 00:30:58,559
And we're like, "Well, I guess
we gonna have us a library."
743
00:30:58,625 --> 00:31:00,227
- We're gonna have a library.
[Greg laughs]
744
00:31:00,294 --> 00:31:03,597
The Allen Chancellor Library.
- Yes, I like that!
745
00:31:03,664 --> 00:31:05,165
I like that, I like that.
746
00:31:05,232 --> 00:31:08,669
So, it's just happening organic
and we're just growing.
747
00:31:08,735 --> 00:31:11,438
And it's a good feeling
to be on this journey.
748
00:31:11,505 --> 00:31:15,843
I didn't know that I would be
curating a museum.
749
00:31:17,477 --> 00:31:19,146
That was not in my path,
750
00:31:19,213 --> 00:31:22,082
but I'm so glad that
the spirits--
751
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:24,785
and I'm being aligned
in that area.
752
00:31:24,852 --> 00:31:28,322
- Yeah,
the preservation of cultures
753
00:31:28,388 --> 00:31:29,756
is extremely important
754
00:31:29,823 --> 00:31:32,392
because we don't
wanna disappear.
755
00:31:32,459 --> 00:31:34,194
We don't want
all the contributions
756
00:31:34,261 --> 00:31:38,131
by so many people--
to be a artist is hard work.
757
00:31:38,198 --> 00:31:41,635
You have to be dedicated,
committed, and a lot of artists
758
00:31:41,702 --> 00:31:44,571
put in their heart and soul...
- Greg: And passion, yeah.
759
00:31:44,638 --> 00:31:47,274
- ...into their
creativity for a long time.
760
00:31:47,341 --> 00:31:51,111
You have no idea what it's like
unless you are on that journey.
761
00:31:51,178 --> 00:31:55,082
So, we don't want people's
artistry and creativity
762
00:31:55,148 --> 00:31:56,450
to just disappear.
763
00:31:56,517 --> 00:32:00,053
So, the preservation
of the culture
764
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,257
and the history and the artists
in this community
765
00:32:03,323 --> 00:32:04,925
is really important to us.
766
00:32:04,992 --> 00:32:06,927
- Murv: I didn't get a chance
to ask this.
767
00:32:06,994 --> 00:32:08,328
I thought I would have by now.
768
00:32:08,395 --> 00:32:10,063
But are you guys artists
yourselves?
769
00:32:10,130 --> 00:32:11,231
- I am.
770
00:32:11,298 --> 00:32:14,268
I'm a producer,
music producer by trade.
771
00:32:14,334 --> 00:32:17,337
I started out as an artist
in hip-hop,
772
00:32:17,404 --> 00:32:20,307
and now it's coming full circle
773
00:32:21,108 --> 00:32:25,345
as I'm seeing
all of my hip-hop favorites,
774
00:32:25,412 --> 00:32:27,114
they're all--
everybody's coming back!
775
00:32:27,181 --> 00:32:28,382
And I'm like, "You know what?
776
00:32:28,448 --> 00:32:29,750
It's time, it's time."
777
00:32:29,816 --> 00:32:32,753
So, now I'm dipping
into artistry.
778
00:32:32,819 --> 00:32:36,089
I'm more on the spiritual side
of things, you know?
779
00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:37,824
But I'm in it.
780
00:32:39,092 --> 00:32:41,228
I'm writing rhymes again.
781
00:32:41,295 --> 00:32:43,030
- You know,
I used to always think about
782
00:32:43,096 --> 00:32:45,232
what it was gonna be like
when some of these rappers,
783
00:32:45,299 --> 00:32:47,534
you know,
got to be 50, 60 years old,
784
00:32:47,601 --> 00:32:49,269
and we're kind of here now.
785
00:32:49,336 --> 00:32:50,737
What do you think about,
you know,
786
00:32:50,804 --> 00:32:53,240
the longevity of the artists
that have been around
787
00:32:53,307 --> 00:32:54,975
and what they've created
788
00:32:55,042 --> 00:32:56,543
and how they've kept
their careers going?
789
00:32:56,610 --> 00:32:57,711
- It is great.
790
00:32:57,778 --> 00:33:00,247
You know, you still have--
791
00:33:00,314 --> 00:33:04,651
my old school was, like,
you know, maybe The Temptations.
792
00:33:04,718 --> 00:33:08,055
You know, and we didn't think--
you know,
793
00:33:08,121 --> 00:33:10,490
we didn't know how long
that they would be around.
794
00:33:10,557 --> 00:33:14,361
So, I think it's just
the evolution of what's to come.
795
00:33:14,428 --> 00:33:18,432
You know, now hip-hop is--
there's old-school hip-hop.
796
00:33:18,498 --> 00:33:20,634
I'm happy for that. [laughs]
- Yeah.
797
00:33:20,701 --> 00:33:25,772
And I love seeing artists
like Rakim and Big Daddy Kane
798
00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:29,476
continue to be active, like...
- And Nas, yeah, oof!
799
00:33:29,543 --> 00:33:32,579
- ...Yeah, Nas,
like, that era of hip-hop,
800
00:33:32,646 --> 00:33:36,850
the golden era, to see
those artists still touring,
801
00:33:36,917 --> 00:33:38,952
putting out new music
is really important
802
00:33:39,019 --> 00:33:42,623
because rock 'n' roll stars,
they tour forever.
803
00:33:42,689 --> 00:33:45,025
Their legacy continues.
804
00:33:45,092 --> 00:33:46,960
And for a while,
people were, like,
805
00:33:47,027 --> 00:33:48,996
"When you get old,
you can't rap anymore."
806
00:33:49,062 --> 00:33:51,965
And I don't agree
with that sentiment.
807
00:33:52,032 --> 00:33:55,936
I feel like
some of our hip-hop legends
808
00:33:56,003 --> 00:33:57,337
are rock stars too...
- Greg: Absolutely.
809
00:33:57,404 --> 00:33:59,806
- ...And so, they should be able
to continue to tour
810
00:33:59,873 --> 00:34:02,643
and make out music-- make music
and put music out as well.
811
00:34:02,709 --> 00:34:04,344
- And stuff that's coming out,
812
00:34:04,411 --> 00:34:07,648
some of it is better than
what they were doing before.
813
00:34:07,714 --> 00:34:10,617
It's great to see,
it really is.
814
00:34:10,684 --> 00:34:12,553
And I'm excited to be
815
00:34:12,619 --> 00:34:15,956
in the midst
of all this excitement.
816
00:34:16,023 --> 00:34:19,626
- And part of us
having our own museum,
817
00:34:19,693 --> 00:34:23,030
we can have artists, like,
if they have a book release
818
00:34:23,096 --> 00:34:27,768
or if we wanna do a conference
and do breakout sessions
819
00:34:27,835 --> 00:34:31,038
where they can teach
young people how they write
820
00:34:31,104 --> 00:34:34,041
and their writing styles and
different things like that.
821
00:34:34,107 --> 00:34:36,977
So, that's part
of the vision for our museum
822
00:34:37,044 --> 00:34:40,314
is to be able to bring
national artists,
823
00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:41,915
big artists like that...
- Greg: Or international.
824
00:34:41,982 --> 00:34:43,083
- ...International artists,
825
00:34:43,150 --> 00:34:46,019
and have them interact
and perform.
826
00:34:46,086 --> 00:34:48,288
We wanna have a stage
in our facility
827
00:34:48,355 --> 00:34:50,757
where artists
can perform as well.
828
00:34:50,824 --> 00:34:52,826
- Yeah, you talk about
829
00:34:53,126 --> 00:34:55,562
some of the young folks
that come through here.
830
00:34:55,629 --> 00:34:57,531
What's been the impact
of some of the young,
831
00:34:57,598 --> 00:34:59,132
you know,
folks that come through,
832
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:00,534
you know,
people under 10 years old,
833
00:35:00,601 --> 00:35:03,170
that kind of thing?
- It is amazing.
834
00:35:03,237 --> 00:35:06,907
We start off, you know,
giving the little tour,
835
00:35:06,974 --> 00:35:08,075
and they, you know,
836
00:35:08,141 --> 00:35:09,943
at first, they
may not seem interested
837
00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:12,145
'cause it's a lot of writing
and they don't, you know...
838
00:35:12,212 --> 00:35:14,348
- Murv: A lot of words.
- ...A lot of words.
839
00:35:14,414 --> 00:35:15,516
A lot of words.
840
00:35:15,582 --> 00:35:17,117
But then, we start showing them
the artifacts
841
00:35:17,184 --> 00:35:18,919
and asking them,
"Do you know what a cassette,
842
00:35:18,986 --> 00:35:20,120
"Do you know what this is?
843
00:35:20,187 --> 00:35:21,455
This is a Walkman."
844
00:35:21,522 --> 00:35:23,657
They can recognize
the headphones and things.
845
00:35:23,724 --> 00:35:26,527
But, and then we start--
they start interacting
846
00:35:26,593 --> 00:35:29,596
and holding things
and pushing play.
847
00:35:29,663 --> 00:35:33,901
And then, you can just see
their eyes light up.
848
00:35:34,468 --> 00:35:37,070
We had one little girl
who was a dancer
849
00:35:37,137 --> 00:35:40,641
and she saw
the diagram of breakdancing.
850
00:35:40,707 --> 00:35:42,176
She was so intrigued.
851
00:35:42,242 --> 00:35:44,878
Like, "Ooh, this move,
he's on his head.
852
00:35:44,945 --> 00:35:46,446
Oh, he's doing a headspin!"
853
00:35:46,513 --> 00:35:50,551
And she was blown,
[chuckles] she was blown.
854
00:35:50,617 --> 00:35:52,085
And she did not want to leave.
855
00:35:52,152 --> 00:35:55,155
And then, she got to
the graffiti board
856
00:35:55,222 --> 00:35:56,557
and her parents were like,
"It's time,"
857
00:35:56,623 --> 00:35:57,958
and she did not want to go.
858
00:35:58,025 --> 00:36:00,861
And so, that's
the excitement that I,
859
00:36:00,928 --> 00:36:02,329
you know, that I love.
860
00:36:02,396 --> 00:36:06,266
You know, seeing the kids
just embrace the culture.
861
00:36:06,333 --> 00:36:09,203
And so, it definitely
has a place,
862
00:36:09,269 --> 00:36:11,939
and I feel that we're
definitely doing it justice.
863
00:36:12,005 --> 00:36:16,210
- Yeah, and like,
we have spray paint cans here.
864
00:36:16,276 --> 00:36:17,611
We have vinyl.
865
00:36:17,678 --> 00:36:21,114
So, some kids have never seen
an actual record.
866
00:36:21,181 --> 00:36:25,319
And so, to be able to
have them have that experience
867
00:36:25,385 --> 00:36:26,920
means a lot to us.
- Greg: Yeah.
868
00:36:26,987 --> 00:36:29,590
One girl also, she was like--
she was like,
869
00:36:29,656 --> 00:36:31,325
"Oh, I know what a turntable is.
870
00:36:31,391 --> 00:36:33,293
I got a few records."
871
00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:36,763
I was like, "Okay, well,
what records do you have?"
872
00:36:36,830 --> 00:36:39,600
And guess what she said?
- Menkhu Ara: What?
873
00:36:39,666 --> 00:36:42,236
- Taylor Swift.
[laughter]
874
00:36:42,903 --> 00:36:45,506
Like, okay, I guess if you're
gonna put it in your collection,
875
00:36:45,572 --> 00:36:47,441
you can have a Taylor Swift.
876
00:36:47,508 --> 00:36:49,943
But, you know,
long as she's got a record,
877
00:36:50,010 --> 00:36:51,111
you know what I mean?
878
00:36:51,178 --> 00:36:53,947
Like, it's good to see,
it's good to see.
879
00:36:54,014 --> 00:36:56,283
- Yeah.
- What else, fellas?
880
00:36:56,350 --> 00:36:59,653
Anything else you wanna share
before we scoot out of here?
881
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:00,854
- Another thing
that we're doing,
882
00:37:00,921 --> 00:37:04,658
we're also trying
to unite the community.
883
00:37:04,725 --> 00:37:05,826
There's...
884
00:37:05,893 --> 00:37:07,427
- Murv: Lord knows
we need that, right?
885
00:37:07,494 --> 00:37:08,629
- ...Yes.
- Yeah, yeah, man.
886
00:37:08,695 --> 00:37:11,031
And so, we'll have a forum
887
00:37:11,098 --> 00:37:15,369
on the last day of this exhibit
on the 28th, uniting...
888
00:37:15,435 --> 00:37:18,505
- And as he says this,
don't worry about it
889
00:37:18,572 --> 00:37:21,341
'cause this will air
well after that date, folks.
890
00:37:21,408 --> 00:37:23,143
- Greg: ...Oh, okay, I'm sorry.
- That's okay.
891
00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:24,411
No need to apologize.
892
00:37:24,478 --> 00:37:27,881
But you can go to their website,
which is?
893
00:37:27,948 --> 00:37:30,651
- Pyramidalproductions.com.
894
00:37:30,717 --> 00:37:33,253
- And then, you can be able
to see some of the different
895
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,255
things they got going on.
- Greg: Absolutely.
896
00:37:35,322 --> 00:37:37,057
- 'Cause you guys
do a Q&A with this
897
00:37:37,124 --> 00:37:38,258
as well, right?
- Yes.
898
00:37:38,325 --> 00:37:39,760
- Yes.
899
00:37:39,826 --> 00:37:40,961
Absolutely.
- We have
900
00:37:41,028 --> 00:37:44,097
a panel discussion.
- Talking about the past,
901
00:37:44,164 --> 00:37:46,099
the present, and the future
902
00:37:46,166 --> 00:37:47,868
of where we're going.
- Yes.
903
00:37:47,935 --> 00:37:49,870
- Why are you guys
so passionate about all this?
904
00:37:49,937 --> 00:37:52,272
Why give all this effort?
- We lived it!
905
00:37:52,339 --> 00:37:54,908
We lived it.
- We were there.
906
00:37:55,275 --> 00:37:56,944
- We were there,
we were there.
907
00:37:57,010 --> 00:37:59,913
And, you know, I think our past,
908
00:38:00,681 --> 00:38:04,017
wherever we go, hip-hop
has always been a part of that.
909
00:38:04,084 --> 00:38:07,354
- Hip-hop is the soundtrack
to our lives.
910
00:38:07,421 --> 00:38:09,957
- Absolutely.
- And so...
911
00:38:10,023 --> 00:38:12,626
- Murv: And what song is playing
in your head for your roll?
912
00:38:12,693 --> 00:38:15,295
- For my roll?
- Murv: Yeah, what do you hear?
913
00:38:15,362 --> 00:38:16,830
What's the soundtrack for you?
914
00:38:16,897 --> 00:38:18,565
- Let me see.
915
00:38:21,902 --> 00:38:23,003
- I don't know.
916
00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:25,005
Right now, I've got
? Hip-hop hooray, ho ?
917
00:38:25,072 --> 00:38:26,173
- I was thinking that.
918
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,041
[Murv chuckles]
- ? Hey ? [laughs]
919
00:38:28,108 --> 00:38:29,576
- I was thinking,
"Picture Me Rollin'."
920
00:38:29,643 --> 00:38:31,178
I don't know.
- Ohhh!
921
00:38:31,245 --> 00:38:32,646
- "Picture Me Rollin'."
[laughter]
922
00:38:32,713 --> 00:38:34,615
- Tupac.
[Murv laughs]
923
00:38:34,681 --> 00:38:36,216
- There's a lot
to choose from, right?
924
00:38:36,283 --> 00:38:37,618
- Menkhu Ara:
Lots to choose from.
925
00:38:37,684 --> 00:38:39,219
- Greg: It's so much
to choose from.
926
00:38:39,286 --> 00:38:41,021
- Murv: A lot to choose from.
- Yeah.
927
00:38:41,088 --> 00:38:42,322
- Murv: Well, great job, guys.
928
00:38:42,389 --> 00:38:44,391
I appreciate you stopping in
and making time for us.
929
00:38:44,458 --> 00:38:47,628
Mankaru Ara Maat.
- Menkhu Ara: Menkhu Ara.
930
00:38:47,694 --> 00:38:50,030
- Menkhu Ara, Menkhu Ara.
931
00:38:51,365 --> 00:38:52,466
Say it again.
932
00:38:52,533 --> 00:38:54,601
- Menkhu Ara Maat.
- Yeah, that.
933
00:38:54,668 --> 00:38:56,003
[laughter]
934
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:57,604
And Greg Doby,
I can handle that.
935
00:38:57,671 --> 00:38:59,439
- Yeah.
[laughter]
936
00:38:59,506 --> 00:39:00,941
We appreciate you
being on In Focus.
937
00:39:01,008 --> 00:39:02,176
- Thank you.
- Yes.
938
00:39:02,242 --> 00:39:05,045
- Thanks, fellas.
- Thank you.