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Court throws a curveball
into absentee voting,

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letting the Trump
administration move forward

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with more restrictive rules.
But Wisconsin election

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officials say we're a long
ways from November, and

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there will be more lawsuits.
This is in Wisconsin

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politics.

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I'm Zac Schultz,
filling in for Shawn

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Johnson here with my
colleagues, Anya van

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Wagtendonk and Rich Kremer
in Eau Claire. Hello to

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both of you. Hey.
On Monday,

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the U.S. Supreme Court's
shadow docket struck again,

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releasing an unsigned
opinion that allows the

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Trump administration to go
forward with orders for the

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Postal Service to create
rules restricting who can

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send an absentee ballot
through the mail. Ana. This

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started as an executive
order last spring.

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Wisconsin was one of the
states that sued to stop it.

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So where are we now?
>> I mean, we're still in

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the court. So this was the
court did not rule on sort

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of the merits of the
executive order themselves.

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They ruled on the timing of
the lawsuit that Wisconsin

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and other states filed,
essentially saying that

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because the Postal Service
rule has not yet been put

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in place, they can't argue
that they have been harmed.

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Meanwhile, the Postal
Service did author and

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publish the rule that would
go into effect as soon as

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the order is cleared. And
so now things go back to a

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lower court than they will
go back to the Supreme

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Court, which will
of weigh in on whether the

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executive branch, the
president, is allowed to

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make such a kind of
sweeping change to state

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elections, which are,
according to the

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Constitution, sort of
supposed to be decided by

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the states.
>> So nothing happening at

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this exact moment. But
everyone should be a little

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bit worried and aware of
what's.

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we're ten weeks out from
the midterm elections. And

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so one of the things that
we're hearing from election

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administrators is sort of,
well, what are we supposed

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to be doing in the meantime?
They are in the process of

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printing out these ballots,
ballots that go to overseas,

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and military voters need to
be sent out 45 days in

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advance of the election. So
that's like, I think

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September 19th. So all this
stuff needs to be happening,

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this nitty gritty
administrative stuff. And

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meanwhile, they're trying
to figure out just like how

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the rules function.
>> Rich Republicans have an

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interesting relationship
with absentee balloting

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going back years where
they've talked about

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restricting it, but they
also love to use it,

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including Republican
nominee Tom Tiffany.

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>> And President Donald
Trump. I believe it was

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reported, used it this year
as well. So it's an

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interesting paradox. So
going back to 2020,

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President Donald Trump has
made these these false

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claims about widespread
voter fraud that that

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resulted in a stolen
election. But part of that,

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of course, was his railing
against mail in absentee

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voting. And he said it's
just a prime opportunity

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for fraud to happen. So
many of his supporters have

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bought into that. And here
in Wisconsin, we've got

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this paradox where you've
got the state party chair,

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Bryan Schimming, the GOP
party chair, who he said,

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well, I was one of the
first state party chairs in

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the country to advocate for
absentee voting and early

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voting as a way to kind of
match Democrats who have

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been really successful with
that. In terms of getting

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out the vote early ahead of
Election Day, less work on

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Election Day. At the same
time, you've got people

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within the party that want
to impeach the state's

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election top election
official Megan Wolf,

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they've they've went after
Republican speaker,

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outgoing Republican Speaker
of the Assembly, Robin Vos,

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for not trying to decertify
the election, etc. So it's

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really kind of a paradox
between those two worlds in

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the Wisconsin GOP.
>> So anyway, what are

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clerks doing right now? I
guess, in Wisconsin history,

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we've had a lot of lawsuits
that happen right before an

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election, but usually those
involve state law. This

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would be seemingly a much
larger change than one that

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they really wouldn't have
any impact on.

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>> Yeah. Well, Wisconsin
also is unique because it

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has sort of the most
Dietsche federated election

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administration system in
the country. So a lot of

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other places, you know,
it's county clerks who run

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administration who
administer elections. Here

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it is local clerks.
And so they are all,

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again, doing this kind of
nitty gritty work of

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printing out the ballots
and checking their lists.

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And there's all of this
work that goes on kind of

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behind the scenes to
prepare for this. Every

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clerk I've spoken to says
that like as soon as one

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election ends, the next one
begins for them in terms of

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their work. And so the
primary just ended. They're

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all getting ready for the
general. And so as these

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rules kind of shift and as
they're waiting again for

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the back and forth from the
courts, it really kind of

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raises the question of what
are like, how do they

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follow the rules if they
don't yet know what the

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rules are? And especially
for something like this,

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with the Postal Service
being in charge of

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potentially determining who
is allowed to receive a

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mailing ballot and who is
not, they could

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accidentally violate that
rule if they're not very,

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very careful. And so
they're kind of waiting to

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see. So we are just kind of
in this wait and see moment

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when again, they actually
need to be kind of hurrying

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up just to get stuff like
formatted for the printer.

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Again, this very
administrative details that

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how we all vote.
>> And there have been

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concerns about how the
Postal Service will handle

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absentee ballots,
especially under the Trump

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administration, are both
two separate Trump

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administrations. There have
conspiracies about whether

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the Postal Service will
lose the ballots, whether

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they'll be processing them
on time, or are there

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enough postal workers to
handle all of these routes.

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And so I know that the
parties in the past have

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told their voters, hey, if
you're worried, make sure

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you deliver it in person.
Rich, have we seen any of

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these groups, whether the
Democrats or Republicans

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trying to make sure that
their voters are aware,

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even if these don't happen,
like, hey, maybe it's

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safest to hand deliver
these, or maybe you do

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absentee in person if you
can.

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>> Yeah. And also some of
the clerks. So the

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Wisconsin Elections
clerks this year, I believe.

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And anyway, the results
came out this year. And a

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lot of them, the majority
of them did mention there

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has been longer than
expected delays with regard

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to absentee voting. This
was in the April Supreme

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Court election, but so some
of them in the summary of

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the survey responses from
those clerks have said that

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people are just saying,
well, I. I won't even try

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to absentee vote. I'll go a
different route. And so

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some of the clerks were
also advising that they

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consider in-person absentee
voting or other forms,

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which is really something.
And, you know, I got a

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chance to ask Republican
congressman and candidate

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for governor, Tom Tiffany,
about this specific

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executive order from the
president and what he

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thought about it. He
deflected and kind of went

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along the lines of saying,
most clerks do a great job.

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But he said some, without
naming them, have gone

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beyond what the color of
the law dictates. So

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without naming them, we can
assume that it might be

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Dane County and Milwaukee
County that he has an issue

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with, because we've heard
that from other Republicans.

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So it's just a really
interesting situation. And

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and we are we're right on
the cusp of this election.

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So this uncertainty
definitely has got a lot of

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eyebrows raised.
>> So this has only

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happened in the last,
obviously, day or so. How

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much can this change the
conversation in the

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gubernatorial election?
Because for the past few

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weeks since the candidates
have been set, it's been

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about data centers, and
that's been the driving

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force of Tiffany attacking
David Crowley and Crowley

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trying to defend and put it
back in his candidacy. But

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could this change the topic
and bring up those

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connections Tom Tiffany has
to Donald Trump, or the

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fact that these almost all
come out of election

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conspiracies from 2020? Can
this be an opening to

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change the narrative of
what people are talking

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about?
>> To Rich's point? You

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know, I think one of the
consequences of something

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like this isn't just that
it's confusing for election

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officials, but that it can
kind of sow confusion and

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doubt among voters. And so
for voters who are kind of

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already concerned about
American democracy, who do

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tend to skew democratic,
this is kind of part of

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that pattern for voters who
maybe have questions about

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the 2020 election, or are
Trump supporters much like

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Tom Tiffany, right, who was
somebody who voted to

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decertify 2020 election
results in certain other

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states? This is just kind
of an example of of the

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chaos that they say is just
kind of baked into the

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system. And so it kind of
gives them an opportunity

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if things don't necessarily
go their way in November to

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point to the shifting rules,
the back and forth, the

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courts, the judges as a
reason for that. And so at

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the very least, you know,
even if it does kind of

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resolve in a way that
allows administrators to,

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to do their job sort of
without a hitch, it still

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creates this sense of chaos
in the kind of basis of our

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democracy which is voting.
>> So, yeah. So rich, do

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you think Republicans want
to change the conversation

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here, or is this strictly
the Democrats would love to

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be able to pin this back,
even if it causes confusion

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and say, this is what you
get with Tom, Tiffany and

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Donald Trump?
>> Yeah. It seems like

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Democrats are much more
eager to talk about this

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sort of thing than
Republicans. When Tom

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Tiffany has been asked
about his 2020 votes and

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his signing on to a Texas
lawsuit that year that

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would have tossed out
Wisconsin's votes in the

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presidential election, he
just defers like he'll

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quickly say, Joe Biden is
president, and then he

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moves on. So based on that,
and also based on some

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Republican commentary I've
seen from people in

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Wisconsin, they definitely
don't want Tom Tiffany

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talking about this. They
don't necessarily want him

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talking about issues that
President Trump is pushing

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that are unpopular. But you
can rest assured that

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Democrats are very excited
to talk about this

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development from the
Supreme Court, the

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president's attempts, his
plans, etc. because we got

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a press release first thing
this morning about it.

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>> So another topic that
could come up in the

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governor's race that we're
paying attention to.

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Governor Evers, commutation
Advisory Board, met for the

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00:10:00,968 --> 00:10:03,804
first time last week to
hear a dozen from a dozen

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inmates who have applied to
have their sentences

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reduced. Ana what do we
know about this board? And

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then how will that filter
out into Tom Tiffany versus

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00:10:12,145 --> 00:10:14,214
David Crowley? Why would it
have anything to do with

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them?
time that this board has

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met since 1995. That was
under Republican Governor

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Tommy Thompson. And so this
has been sort of a priority

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of Governor Evers is to to
make some changes to

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criminal justice in
Wisconsin. He has not

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delivered on many of those.
But this was kind of one of

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his final acts in office,
is to potentially reduce

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the sentence of grant
commutations to some

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incarcerated people. And so
this is a big deal, in part

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because crime is just
always an issue in any

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election. I mean, we've
seen it even with Supreme

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Court races where they
don't really have any, you

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know, role in fighting
crime. But crime is just

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something that motivates
voters. And so this issue

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of potentially, you know,
lessening the sentence of

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people, some of whom were
convicted for nonviolent

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crimes, some of whom were
convicted for violent

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crimes, according to a
series of kind of criteria,

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including they've served a
majority of their sentence,

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they've proven that they've
sort of rehabilitated in

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certain ways. But all of
that can be the type of

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thing that Republicans in
particular, who like to say

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Democrats are kind of easy
on crime, can really seize

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upon. And, you know, I'm
from Massachusetts. And so

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I grew up learning about
sort of the Willie Horton

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case, which was a person
who was released from

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prison, went on to commit
another very violent crime.

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a little bit before my time.
But I grew up learning

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about this. And that is the
kind of thing that can

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really sink elections. And
so I think as this is going

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forward, you know, it is
popular among voters of

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many different stripes to
do some sort of criminal

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justice reform. But when
you kind of look at what

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that actually looks like,
it can be a bit of a

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tightrope walk for
politicians.

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bring up Willie Horton
because that came out in a

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Democratic primary in 1988.
It was al Gore versus

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Dukakis, and then it ended
up playing a major role in

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the presidential campaign
in 88, where it was Lee

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Atwater, who Atwater, who
was one of the first

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negative ad gurus out there,
ran it against Dukakis. And

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it was considered one of
the things that showed

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weakness in him and why he
went from high approval

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ratings to losing that
election in 1988. And, Rich,

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obviously, this is
have a history of looking

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at as crime in Milwaukee,
and especially people of

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color. We've already
started to see some of

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those connections. They're
trying to draw between

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David Crowley and any bad
thing that happens in

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Milwaukee County. It's a
little bit of like throwing

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spaghetti at the wall. See
what sticks right now. But

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this is definitely
something they will use

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against him, even if it's
the weakest of links.

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>> Yeah. That's right. This
is something that has

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proven to be able to stick
in the past. I mean, I

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think back to 2022, the US
Senate race between

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Republican incumbent and
now Senator Ron Johnson and

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former lieutenant Governor
Mandela Barnes. That race,

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the Republicans supporting
Johnson and Johnson himself

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just blanketed the
Wisconsin airwaves with ads

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about how Barnes was, you
know, about defunding the

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police or he was anti ICE
and he was weak on crime. I

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mean, these sort of things.
Again, a US senator doesn't

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have a ton to do in the,
you know, directly with

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crime fighting. But these
are the kind of topics that

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that stir up people's
emotions. Also, back in

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2022, the Marquette
University Law School did a

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survey that I found really
interesting. It showed that,

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you know, 77% of
respondents said they feel

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safe in their daily
activities, but 85%

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reported being either
somewhat concerned or very

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concerned about increasing
crime. So that kind of

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shows how the emotions can
get in the way of numbers

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on paper.
>> And yeah, it's

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interesting. The crime
statistics came out for

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Wisconsin showing a
decrease, as we've seen

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nationally, including in
Milwaukee, but there's

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still going to be
allegations. We saw it with

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videos of incidents at the
state fair. And all of a

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sudden the connection we
saw was Republicans saying,

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00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:05,279
This is David Crowley
Wisconsin. And I didn't

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know that the Milwaukee
County exec was in charge

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of the state fair and like,
making sure everyone stayed

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in line there. But this
will keep coming up, right?

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>> Yeah. I mean, as Rich
said, statistics and

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00:14:14,621 --> 00:14:16,590
people's feelings kind of
have almost nothing to do

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with one another. In fact,
there's been research that

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shows that as crime rates
have steadily gone down,

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00:14:22,229 --> 00:14:25,165
minus the Covid spike, you
know, from the 90s,

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coverage of crime has gone
up in local media. And so

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it gives the impression to
a lot of people. You know,

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I talk to people from
outside of Milwaukee who

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are convinced that it's
kind of on fire just 100%

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00:14:36,009 --> 00:14:39,413
of the time. And so if you
feel that way, it kind of

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doesn't matter what the
statistics say. And you can

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00:14:41,381 --> 00:14:43,584
really leverage that
concern, especially for

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00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:46,153
somebody like David Crowley,
who is so Milwaukee, right,

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00:14:46,220 --> 00:14:49,122
that he is of Milwaukee, he
is the county executive.

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00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:52,893
The Tom Tiffany campaign
will try to tie him to

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every single problem that
Milwaukee has, including

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crime rates that are higher
than elsewhere in the state,

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because that is just kind
of the nature of urban

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00:15:00,467 --> 00:15:03,871
centers.
want to talk about today

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00:15:03,937 --> 00:15:06,006
and talking about changing
the topic in the governor's

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00:15:06,073 --> 00:15:08,709
race, if we ever get away
from data centers being

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00:15:08,775 --> 00:15:10,878
this primary driver, there
is the of these tariffs

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00:15:10,944 --> 00:15:13,747
coming in. And we have a
couple different aspects of.

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00:15:13,814 --> 00:15:16,984
One is Trump is escalating
a new trade war with Canada.

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And we're also seeing
questions about whether he

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would allow imported beef
coming in from South

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00:15:21,722 --> 00:15:24,558
America to come into the
market and reducing tariffs

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00:15:24,625 --> 00:15:27,060
there. And rich tariffs
have an interesting another

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00:15:27,127 --> 00:15:29,129
interesting aspect of
Republicans of when Trump

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imposes them, that they
don't change the cost

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according to Republicans.
But when he lowers them,

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it's supposed to lower the
cost of beef coming in. But

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what's been the reaction to
some of these different

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00:15:38,672 --> 00:15:42,809
tariff war battles going on?
>> So again, this is

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00:15:42,876 --> 00:15:45,112
something that I would
imagine Republicans aren't

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00:15:45,179 --> 00:15:47,614
excited to talk about, but
Tom Tiffany has in the past,

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00:15:47,681 --> 00:15:51,185
he's he's talked about how
the president is doing

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00:15:51,251 --> 00:15:55,522
these these things, these
tariffs in order to reshore

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00:15:55,589 --> 00:15:57,591
manufacturing in Wisconsin,
he said. The media doesn't

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00:15:57,658 --> 00:15:59,993
talk about the success
stories. He mentioned

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00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:04,097
something about a
Harley-Davidson plant,

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00:16:04,164 --> 00:16:08,869
something happening with
that in Tomahawk. So they

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00:16:08,936 --> 00:16:10,971
don't want to talk about
the downsides of that. I

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00:16:11,038 --> 00:16:14,274
did see something I
honestly wasn't able to go

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00:16:14,341 --> 00:16:17,044
through the whole article,
but that Tom Tiffany might

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00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:19,279
have been creating some
distance between the

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00:16:19,346 --> 00:16:21,815
president on this latest
batch with regard to Canada.

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00:16:21,882 --> 00:16:25,686
But again, I'm not as not
super well versed on that.

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00:16:25,752 --> 00:16:28,455
It's definitely a topic,
though, with affordability

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00:16:28,522 --> 00:16:32,192
being top concern among
voters in general, and

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00:16:32,259 --> 00:16:34,127
Democrats are going to try
to make hay with it.

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00:16:34,194 --> 00:16:37,064
>> And Anya, in our last
minute here talking about

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00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:39,399
these tariff issues, I mean,
Democrats were quick to

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00:16:39,466 --> 00:16:42,269
pounce on this, Governor
Evers saying we have a $7

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00:16:42,336 --> 00:16:44,338
billion in trade with
Canada. Our closest

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00:16:44,404 --> 00:16:46,573
neighbor. Like these have
real world implications,

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not just political
implications.

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00:16:48,475 --> 00:16:51,678
>> Right. But again, it's
sort of it's the work of

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00:16:51,745 --> 00:16:53,881
politicians to kind of draw
those connections and make

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00:16:53,947 --> 00:16:57,150
people understand, you know,
when you go to the grocery

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00:16:57,217 --> 00:16:59,987
store, it doesn't say like,
this came from X, Y, Z. You

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00:17:00,053 --> 00:17:02,990
just sort of pick up your
eggs and your milk and you

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00:17:03,056 --> 00:17:05,125
go on your way. And then
likewise, especially kind

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00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:08,028
of further out on the
supply chain, we get a ton

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00:17:08,095 --> 00:17:10,964
of wood from Canada, for
example. I don't see like a

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00:17:11,031 --> 00:17:13,100
sticker on this table kind
of explaining how this

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00:17:13,166 --> 00:17:16,069
table came to be. And so
it's easy to feel kind of

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00:17:16,136 --> 00:17:18,205
distanced as just a normal
person going through the

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00:17:18,272 --> 00:17:21,141
world from some of these
policies. So it's the job

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00:17:21,208 --> 00:17:23,377
of Democrats if they want
to make hay with this, as

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00:17:23,443 --> 00:17:26,547
Rich said, to make that hay,
which is also involves a

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00:17:26,613 --> 00:17:29,483
little bit of complicated
explaining of sort of

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00:17:29,550 --> 00:17:31,518
geopolitical maneuvering,
which is a little tricky in

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00:17:31,585 --> 00:17:35,055
like a 32nd ad, as we've
talked about.

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00:17:35,589 --> 00:17:38,492
have the money to run those
32nd ads over and over to

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00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:40,694
explain perhaps nuanced
geopolitical maneuvers in

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00:17:40,761 --> 00:17:43,630
an election. Well, that is
all the time we have for

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00:17:43,697 --> 00:17:46,099
today. Our colleague Shawn
Johnson will be back next

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00:17:46,166 --> 00:17:49,536
week. This has been inside
Wisconsin politics. Be sure

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00:17:49,603 --> 00:17:53,040
to follow us on PBS
wisconsin.org. WPR.org,

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00:17:53,106 --> 00:17:57,244
YouTube, or wherever you
get your podcasts.