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Another major
shake up inthe
Democratic primary for
governor as
Mandela Barnes
drops out.
How does this
change the
race, and
what are the remaining
candidates saying as they make
their closing
pitches to voters?
This is
inside Wisconsin politics. I'm
Shawn Johnson
here with my colleagues
Anya van Wagtendonk Zac
Schultz and Rich Kremer
in Eau Claire.
Hey, everyone.
Hello. So
just when it seemed likethis
Democratic primary for
governor couldn't
get any
Wilder. Let's
see. Let's gothrough the
candidates here.David
Crowley drops
out. Sarah
Rodriguez drops out.
David Crowley
drops back
in. We now
have Mandela
Barnes dropping
out of the
race. Some pretty
big names
there. Anya
what happened?
>> I mean, I
will give a little behind
the scenes
intrigue for our viewers.
We taped a
whole different
show right before
this talking about the debate.And we will
get into that later. And we got the
news in our earpieces thatMandela Barnes had
dropped out, so he
released a video on
social media and
interestingly, you know, doesn't
endorse another
candidate , looked
pretty dejected
and essentially
said, we all
can tell the
writing is on the
wall ofwho the nominee
is going to be. I assume he is
alluding to Francesca Hong, who isjust carrying
all these polls. And
he said,
you know, the
number one thing to do is to
beat TomTiffany. So
it was not a
ringing endorsement. It did not seem
like an
impassioned sort of
choice to
step
down, but certainly
some some
breaking news. You
know, we're
less than two weeks
out from primary day.
>> Yeah. We got to tell you,we're
recording this on a Thursday afternoon. So by
the time you watch it orhear it,
you may know more about this story than
we do right at this moment. Wecan
tell you right now fromthe Journal Sentinel,
the decisions by the Barnescamp, they said,
came amid reporting
into allegationsthat
Barnes was
taking advantage of
his role in
the party to have
sexual encounters
with young
adult women.
We also
read from
Politico. The
announcement comes
as Democratic
officials in the
state brace
for damaging
media reports.
So, I mean,
Zac, there
are different
circumstances under
which a candidate
can drop
out. Itcan be
received indifferent
ways. How
would you characterize
this one?
>> Well, this is
different from past
episodes, including
the flip side ofthis, when
Ben MandelaBarnes took
advantage of this in 2022 in his
Senate run Senate
run, when
the other
opponents in that
primary dropped
out and they dropped
out gracefully,
saying the only way
at that time for them to
win the nomination would be to gonegative
and hurt the party. And they decided not
to do that. And they wererewarded for
that as being team players down the road.
Sarah Godlewski was d
treasurer. We've seen examples of this.Almost two
decades ago, Scott Walker was going torun
for governor in 2006, party officials said, hey,
why don't you clear thefield for Mark
green? He did. And then he was the
nominee in 2010 when partyofficials remembered he
was graceful about that.
So on one hand,
it could be seen as Mandela Barnes seeing
the writing on the wall. Hewasn't going
to win. But he has a future in
Democratic politics in Wisconsin. Thatwould be the
normal way to look at this as saying,
well, there's lots of future races he could
run for. But then when youcombine this
with the reporting that we'rehearing in the
rumors that have been running aroundcircles for
quite a while now, it
doesn't have that
same tone
to it. So this
looks more of getting aheadof
the damaging news that
could be dropping less.
Graham Platner
in the
East Coast
Senate race and
more of.
Just keep your headdown
and get out of the
way so it becomes less of adistraction.
And he's forced to bow outdisgracefully as
opposed to bowing out on his own terms.
>> Yeah. You know, youalluded to there.
But in his message,
he did not
say Francesca Hong name. He
didn't say, I'm dropping
out because she's
the frontrunner, and that's
good. He
didn't say,
I'm dropping out
. And I
support a
challenger because
he's kind of
had some fights
with them
recently. Rich,
you reported
on MandelaBarnes this
campaign, andin
2022, he entered
this race
and presented
himself as the frontrunner.
And it seemed
like that sort
of slowly,
slowly slipped
away during this
campaign. And
now this
quite a
shocking arc to
his story
this year.
>> Yeah, it's
been something
else. I
mean, in
terms of name
recognition, he did enter the
race with
more than any
of the other
candidates, including
Republican Congressman Tom
Tiffany. And
that was because of
the 2022
Senate loss
to Ron
Johnson. It wasa
close race,
but and
there was a lot of
advertising. So
his name got
around. But
that race
really hurt him
also , beyond
whatever is going to
be reported
or is being
reported at this
moment about any
improprieties. He
he was damaged
from that
Senate loss to
Ron Johnson among
Democrats. Even
before he jumped into
the race for governor,
there was an op
ed that had
former Lieutenant
Governor Barbara
Lawton, a
Democrat that
is very
involved in the party,
said that
he shouldn't getin
the race, that he's a
proven he's proven that hehe
can't win
statewide, etc.
So there was
that. And
then we
started seeing
in the earlier
days of
this, you
know, gubernatorial
primary among the
Democrats where
people were droppingout.
They weren't endorsing
Barnes like they
did in
2022. So that
was a
signal. Then
Governor Evers
endorsed someone
besides Barnes,
who, you know,
Barnes and Evers
served together,
for years.
So that was
a sign.
And now
here we are.
It's really
been just
a, a
really interesting
ride for
Barnes. >> So
his departure
kind ofleaves
the race
in some ways
where it was,
where there seems to
be this growing consensus
out therethat
this is
Francesca Hong race
to lose.
She is a
democratic socialist, which
is sort of
defined this
campaign. She was
asked about her
views at
this week's
debate. Let's give
a listen to what
she had tosay.
>> What democratic
socialism is,
is a form of
government that puts
working class
people first.That
puts work
first. The policies that
we have been
working on,
permanent affordability
, has broad
bipartisan support
in everycorner
of the state.
>> Ana you've
covered her
campaign. You profiled herfor
Wisconsin Public Radio.
How is she
presenting her
brand of politics
to primary
voters and also
potentially critics
as this primary
closes out?
>> Yeah, I think she's been
really consistent, not just
throughout this campaign,
but throughout her
political career.
She was a
member of the Democratic
Socialist Caucus in the
Assembly. She's running as
a democratic socialist onthe
Democratic ticket.
And so you've
seen that a lotin
her policy positions. I
think a little bit what wesaw on
the debate stage was her trying to
nuance someof
that, perhaps
for a more general election, again,
as she is this
kind of
runaway favorite
at the moment.
I saw some
criticism actually
from national
DSA members
on social
media who weresaying
essentially, oh, she's not
socialist enough,but
I think she
understands that there is going to
be a
pretty ready
made line of
attack from
Republicans based on
some of her past
statements based on calling
for defunding the
police, based on
aligning with certain, you know, sort
of far left, more likeagitated
sort of online
figures that that
gives them easy
things to kind ofclip,
which can
really kindof
be hard to
oppose from
a more kind of nuanced
position. And so I think wesaw
her on the debate stage,kind of trying
out some of these more,
bitable ,clippable ways of
approaching her
politics. >> Yeah.
Part of the
question that led to
that answer there was, hey,
the Democratic
Socialists of
America stand
for gettingrid
of prisons,
getting rid of the
Senate. Are you
with them?
And she said shedidn't agree with
them on everything.
But I
do kind of
sense from
her a
pivot toward the
general electionin
terms of the way thatshe's
answering these questions.
You know,
on, I don't
know, you name it,
tax policy
on defund the
police. You know,
what stood out to
you? >> She's
definitely nuancing
those positions
because in,
in politics, ifyou're
explaining, you're
losing that that phrase hasbeen
around for a long time.So she's trying
to explain to general election
voters that she's
not that kind
of socialist.
She's a democratic
socialist because
Republicans are comparing
her to Venezuela.I mean,
that's that's Tom
Tiffany's line of
attack that I heard on Tuesday
night during the debate. Iwas covering one
of his events, and he's saying,well, if
you want to know about socialism, you just
have to look at Venezuelawhen they're eating
the animals and they're eatingtheir shirts and
there's nothing available foranybody. And that's what's
coming to Wisconsin. If youlook at Francesca
Hong, that's what you're going tohear from
them. So her trying to go more in
the lines of the old MilwaukeeSocialists, like
the sewer socialists, they werecalled of like,
let's work on infrastructure andpublic schools and
the public good, the publicwelfare. She's trying
to get ahead of some of thoseattacks
and explain that's where her socialistpolicies lie
less in the international
communist socialist
stuff that we
hear from the
countries that fall
apart, that claim
to be socialist.
>> And rich. You
covered the debate
she was
asked about. I mean,
everybody there on
that debate stage
was saying, let's
tax millionaires to pay for
stuff in state
government. She got
a little morespecific
than others,
and yet
it seemed like
potentially an incomplete
answer based on her record.
>> Yeah. That's
right. Her
her website
has all kindsof
very specific
numbers. And
also she's been in
the assembly
for some time
now, and
she's taken a
lot of votes.
She's introduced a
lot of legislation.
So on
the debate
stage, essentially she was
saying, well, for
millionaires, it'd be a 1%
tax increase
to something like
8.6% versus,
you know, whateverit
is now. So
she said
that, but
right away online
Democrats even were saying,
well, you
know, actually
she's got a
plan to,
create a new
tax bracket and
set it at 17
point something
percent. Which
is true.
That was
part of
a plan she
put out in,
in the
legislature. So she,
she talked
really generally
about it.
And, so
then others
had to go and
dig up
what she said in
the past. >> Yeah.
We did
mention last
week that we
were going to wait
for another
story to develop
this police
shooting in
Madison. And you've heard all
the candidates for governorcome out and say,
you know, we need to have
a swift
investigation of that.
Zac, I think it's
fair to saythat
Francesca Hong response to
the shooting
was certainly the
most attention
getting. She went
out to the site
of the shooting
with a
bullhorn and called it an
execution. What is
she saying
now? And,
you know, why
did she use
that word in her words?
>> Well, she was asked
during the debate, would
you use
would you make the same
statement as governor?And
her answer was
no, because the governor
has a bigger,
bigger megaphone
and essentially
alluding that wouldn't be
appropriate for the
governor to make that
statement. What's
interesting is you're
supposed to campaign
how you would
govern. And
she did make
that statement asa
candidate only a
few weeks away from a
primary. And
the video of
her doing it, the
crowd is clearly
trying to goad
her into using the word murder.
And she at that
moment takes apause
and then
says, execution. So she was
even calibrating what she
was saying in
that moment.
This wasn't as
much of an off
the cuff statement as youmight think.
When you coverher in
speeches. She is very
measured in her in
her thought and her
speech. Shepauses
before she
answers a question
she's thinking
about. It's not
just letting the words
fly like we see
on social media sometimes
with some politicians, and
then worryabout
retracting it later.
So for her to
use that word was
a deliberate, intentional thing.
And then to say,
well, I wouldn't, as
governor does, call
into question like, what is
the line, then why
use it now in this case and not?
And we know it will be usedagainst
her. Tom Tiffany is already talking about that.
They're attacking the atic
candidate simply because the street wherethe shooting
took place is still
shut down by protesters saying
that Madison needs to get
control of the streets andthat
as governor, he would obviously have that street
open by now. So they'regoing to use
this against her as a candidate,assuming that
she wins this primary.
And the question is, how does she continue
explaining those statements and
those votes to
general election
voters? >> Let's
talk about
David Crowley,
Milwaukee County's
executive who
got back in
this race
as the FrancescaHong
alternative. And I
got to think that
Mandela Barnes departure
from this
race potentially
changes the
calculus for
him. You
know, Rich, what
were we hearing
from, you know,
David Crowley
as it relatesto
Francesca Hong up to this point in the
race? And,you
know, has it
been catching
on? Is there
is there a sign
that this
theory that
Crowley supporters
had is actually
working? >> Well,
yeah, the,
the claim
that we've heard
from David
Crowley and some of
the other
Democratic candidates
is that
the Republican
Governors Association is
essentially trying
to get
hang elected,
during the primary so
that it would be easier
for TomTiffany
to defeat her.
So that was
the line
going into
it. And
they, the.
I lost it. I'm
sorry. >> Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I, I will say one thing
about those, those ads that youmentioned, the
Republican ads, I
think they are
kind of
doing their,
their serving two goals right
now for
Republicans. They'rekind of getting
bang for their buck in a
couple of ways. I
do think there's a pretty strong case to
be made that they
were there to
prop up.
Francesca Hong, they're
saying that she's a
very liberal candidate
in these liberal
media markets,
but I think
now Republicans
do view
her as
the general
election candidate in
the way that they're
talking about her. So they are kindof
getting a head start on
these attacks
in some way.
Ana , David
Crowley, and
Mandela Barnes were kind
of going at
it in
as their
candidacies progressed
in this race,
as MandelaBarnes
kind of felt
like David
Crowley had
blocked his path.
Now that
Mandela Barnes is out
of the w
ay, is
there a
boost coming for
Crowley? >> Yeah. I
mean, you know,it is
possible that, among other
concerns, MandelaBarnes
felt snubbed by
the fact
that Governor Tony
Evers backed
Crowley and
not him. He
was his
lieutenant governor.
And so we
saw barbs, I mean,
like almost
schoolyard barbs
on social
media, primarily
coming from,
Barnes towardsCrowley. But
then Crowley would sort
of respond in kind.
So really
like a really
kind of,
it felt like bad
blood between them.
One of the arguments
that the Barnes camp
has beenmaking as
other candidateshave
dropped out is we
will absorb
those votes. And
so now part of the
question is,
where will
these remainingsort of Barnes
votes go? Will
they go further
left towards
Hong? Will they go
further towards the
center, towards
Crowley? And of
course, I haven't checkedthe numbers
recently, but as of last week,
100,000 absentee
ballots hadalready
been turned in. I
imagine that number is much
higher now. So there's alsothe
question of like of the
remaining voters who
haven't cast
their ballots.Some of them
are undecided. But
those who were
leaning towards
Barnes now were are they going
to go, especially
if, you
know, these allegations
start to come out and it
becomes aneven more
chaotic newscycle that
distracts fromthe
actual sort of
meat of the campaign,
>> Rich, you
know, realquick on
that law, on
those ballots,
there was a
lawsuit filed to
try to get
them counted.
A judge
ruled on
that this week.
What does that
mean for
those absentee
ballots? >> Well,
yeah, the judge,
dismissed or
denied to
issue an injunction,
essentially blocking
the Wisconsin Elections
Commission guidance
, saying that
you cannot,
if you
have sent in your
absentee ballot, you
cannot ask
for it to be
spoiled and
get anew
one. So essentially
what that
means is that
people who
have already cast
ballots for,
you know,
Lieutenant Governor SaraRodriguez Mandela
Barnes, Missy Hughes,
they're essentially out
of luck,
at this
point. So
unless that
changes, unless
this is rushed through
an appeal process up to the
Supreme Court, and the SupremeCourt makes a
ruling before August 11th, it kind
of seems like those
votes willbe
counted, but
they won't
go anywhere.
>> Zac, we had a couplepolls out
this week.
They both
showed Francesca Hong
with at
least a
20 point
lead. You
know, one of
them showed Mandela
Barnes Marquette
showed Mandela,
Barnes and second David
Crowley down at about
7%. But
in the Marquette
poll, we're
looking at a
third of voters
still undecided. Now,
Mandela Barnes is out ofthe
race. You got all thoseundecided voters. David
Crowley is still there.
Could this
race shake
up and
change in the
closing days?
>> Well, every
time we
say no,
we're proven
wrong. It does
get shaken up
by larger
events than what we
probably could have
predicted on this show.
But the
question is,
is there enough
room for
anyone to gain
enough ground to
catch the lead that
Francesca Hong looks like she
has? Just talking
about those
absentee ballots
that have been cast, they're notgetting counted
back. The
question will be,
once this race is all
over, will the
margin of
votes that
Mandela Barnes and Rodriguez
received add up
to the
amount that
the second place
person took?
Or will they
have made a difference
in some spoiling
manner? That will be
interesting math to see, t
by then we'll have awinner.
we're either going to have a
a massive
comeback here by
one of these
candidates coming
back to,
I guess, edge
out Francesca Hong at the
end, or else we're going to havethe
most interesting governor's race in the
country this
November between
a democratic
socialist and
somebody that
Democrats will paint
as an election denier
in TomTiffany.
So get
ready for alot of
money and ads tocome
to your state of Wisconsin, which we are
very used to. That's
all the time we have for today.Thanks
for joining us. This has been
inside Wisconsin politics. Be sure to followus
on PBS Wisconsin. Org
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or wherever you
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