1 00:00:01,134 --> 00:00:04,471 School's out. And for many parents in Wisconsin, a big 2 00:00:04,538 --> 00:00:07,708 concern looms. Funding for a child care subsidy is 3 00:00:07,774 --> 00:00:10,878 about to run out, and the political backstories 4 00:00:10,944 --> 00:00:13,981 behind a tuition hike at the University of Wisconsin 5 00:00:14,047 --> 00:00:18,352 and a $10 million PFAS settlement. This is inside 6 00:00:18,418 --> 00:00:20,387 Wisconsin politics. 7 00:00:21,822 --> 00:00:25,492 I'm Shawn Johnson here with Anya van Wagtendonk Zac 8 00:00:25,559 --> 00:00:28,428 Schultz and Rich Kremer in Eau Claire. Hey, everyone. 9 00:00:28,495 --> 00:00:32,966 Hello. So, Anya, how do we get to this point with this 10 00:00:33,033 --> 00:00:36,170 child care subsidy that is about to run out? Right at 11 00:00:36,236 --> 00:00:40,507 a point in an election cycle, in a year where 12 00:00:40,574 --> 00:00:43,043 costs are already this massive factor on 13 00:00:43,110 --> 00:00:45,112 everybody's minds? >> Yeah. I mean, this is 14 00:00:45,179 --> 00:00:48,815 like a story that we've all been covering incrementally 15 00:00:48,882 --> 00:00:50,918 when I say incrementally, what I mean is people 16 00:00:50,984 --> 00:00:53,020 ringing that alarm bell that we were heading 17 00:00:53,086 --> 00:00:55,455 towards this cliff. So go back in time to Covid. 18 00:00:55,522 --> 00:00:57,558 There were federal subsidies put in place for 19 00:00:57,624 --> 00:00:59,626 the child care industry while everything else was 20 00:00:59,693 --> 00:01:02,996 collapsing. This is one of these things. And so the 21 00:01:03,063 --> 00:01:05,465 "Child Care Counts" program was initiated, which in 22 00:01:05,532 --> 00:01:08,669 Wisconsin looked like about $300 million going to child 23 00:01:08,735 --> 00:01:12,306 care providers for things like paying staff more to 24 00:01:12,372 --> 00:01:14,641 retain them, infrastructure needs, material needs, and 25 00:01:14,708 --> 00:01:17,144 also some amount of financial aid for families 26 00:01:17,211 --> 00:01:20,814 that were struggling. And so that was due to expire. 27 00:01:20,881 --> 00:01:23,417 And so then for years, we were all covering 28 00:01:23,483 --> 00:01:25,519 legislative fights over what to do about this 29 00:01:25,586 --> 00:01:28,522 funding that was going to go away. Program finally 30 00:01:28,589 --> 00:01:31,859 sunset last summer, and then a bridge program took 31 00:01:31,925 --> 00:01:34,795 over. And so now it is the bridge program that is due 32 00:01:34,862 --> 00:01:37,764 to expire. So again, we've sort of been pushing off 33 00:01:37,831 --> 00:01:40,667 this cliff for years and years and years. And now 34 00:01:40,734 --> 00:01:43,003 the thing that advocates and providers have been 35 00:01:43,070 --> 00:01:45,472 warning about is about to happen. This new report 36 00:01:45,539 --> 00:01:47,574 came out last week saying that potentially up to a 37 00:01:47,641 --> 00:01:50,143 quarter of child care providers could close their 38 00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:52,913 doors, and almost certainly more than that are going to 39 00:01:52,980 --> 00:01:56,250 raise tuition after all of these funds go away. 40 00:01:56,316 --> 00:01:58,552 >> And rich, this is an issue where the Democratic 41 00:01:58,619 --> 00:02:00,287 governor and Republican legislature definitely have 42 00:02:00,354 --> 00:02:03,423 not seen eye to eye when it comes to subsidizing child 43 00:02:03,490 --> 00:02:07,461 care. Refresh my memory a little bit on how they did 44 00:02:07,528 --> 00:02:10,631 see eye to eye a year ago, and how they got this money 45 00:02:10,697 --> 00:02:13,267 that is about to run out now. 46 00:02:14,535 --> 00:02:19,106 >> So it goes back to this fight over $171 million. 47 00:02:20,274 --> 00:02:23,911 Governor Evers had access to this money, which was 48 00:02:23,977 --> 00:02:28,115 interest from those federal Covid era stimulus funds. 49 00:02:28,182 --> 00:02:32,986 So the interest generated from that is Wisconsin 50 00:02:33,053 --> 00:02:35,756 revenue in a sense. So there was this political 51 00:02:35,822 --> 00:02:38,892 battle. Republicans said, well, that should be under 52 00:02:38,959 --> 00:02:41,962 our control, or we should have a say in how you spend 53 00:02:42,029 --> 00:02:44,965 that. The governor said, no, this is federal money. And 54 00:02:45,032 --> 00:02:48,769 I remember watching a hearing on a bill that 55 00:02:48,836 --> 00:02:52,005 would have essentially given the legislature a lot 56 00:02:52,072 --> 00:02:55,175 more say over that money. And even an attorney with 57 00:02:55,242 --> 00:02:59,546 the nonpartisan Legislative Council said, well, it's 58 00:02:59,613 --> 00:03:02,115 kind of an open question. You know, they didn't 59 00:03:02,182 --> 00:03:05,919 answer it specifically, but that was a political battle. 60 00:03:05,986 --> 00:03:09,356 And and during that discussion on the bill, one 61 00:03:09,423 --> 00:03:13,460 of the authors, Republican Eric Wimberger, you know, 62 00:03:13,527 --> 00:03:17,497 toyed with the idea or he mused about impeaching 63 00:03:17,564 --> 00:03:21,401 Governor Evers over this money. So that bridge fund 64 00:03:21,468 --> 00:03:26,473 tapped into that interest from the Covid stimulus 65 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:31,345 funds. And that's how they were able to at least, you 66 00:03:32,012 --> 00:03:34,848 know, keep this program going to some extent. The 67 00:03:34,915 --> 00:03:37,518 providers were saying it's not enough. Democrats said 68 00:03:37,584 --> 00:03:40,621 it's not enough. But here we are, and that's what's 69 00:03:40,687 --> 00:03:42,422 been keeping the thing afloat. 70 00:03:42,489 --> 00:03:44,424 >> So Tony Evers said, it's very important to me that 71 00:03:44,491 --> 00:03:47,094 we keep this child care subsidy going. And 72 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,862 Republicans said, well, it's very important to us 73 00:03:48,929 --> 00:03:51,698 that you get this money out of your bank account, 74 00:03:51,765 --> 00:03:53,901 governor Evers. And so they found that agreement for a 75 00:03:53,967 --> 00:03:57,137 year. But, Zac, it feels like now the money really 76 00:03:57,204 --> 00:04:01,475 is going to run out. Are providers going to close? 77 00:04:01,542 --> 00:04:03,577 What's going to happen? >> Well, you're going to 78 00:04:03,644 --> 00:04:06,446 hear a lot of noise about it and that's for sure. And 79 00:04:06,513 --> 00:04:09,316 there's there's a reality on the ground of what it 80 00:04:09,383 --> 00:04:11,285 means for providers and for parents specifically who 81 00:04:11,351 --> 00:04:13,520 have to figure out where their kids are going to go 82 00:04:13,587 --> 00:04:16,523 if they can't afford this and still need to go work. 83 00:04:16,590 --> 00:04:19,193 But in a political season like this, this is going to 84 00:04:19,259 --> 00:04:21,295 be top line messaging, especially for the 85 00:04:21,361 --> 00:04:23,597 Democrats running for the past in the legislature. 86 00:04:23,664 --> 00:04:26,266 And we assume, Tom Tiffany's kind of in this 87 00:04:26,333 --> 00:04:28,302 category have looked at, you know, the private 88 00:04:28,368 --> 00:04:30,470 sector means of trying to fix this child care issue 89 00:04:30,537 --> 00:04:32,372 of like, oh, let's lower regulations, let's find 90 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:34,641 some discounts or some savings elsewhere. But 91 00:04:34,708 --> 00:04:37,177 instead of directly funding them, they've never liked 92 00:04:37,244 --> 00:04:40,047 that welfare idea, as Robin Vos would constantly call 93 00:04:40,113 --> 00:04:43,283 it. And so the we don't see Republicans coming back to 94 00:04:43,350 --> 00:04:46,053 the table. This wasn't part of the grand bargain that 95 00:04:46,119 --> 00:04:48,922 we talked about for a month straight. So this is a dead 96 00:04:48,989 --> 00:04:50,891 issue politically. There's no one coming back in 97 00:04:50,958 --> 00:04:53,160 special session to find money to fix this. They've 98 00:04:53,227 --> 00:04:56,029 all known this date is here. The question is, what will 99 00:04:56,096 --> 00:04:59,099 it mean going into the fall? How much damage will we see 100 00:04:59,166 --> 00:05:02,169 leading up to September? And maybe because September 101 00:05:02,236 --> 00:05:04,571 means schools back in session, it will be a 102 00:05:04,638 --> 00:05:07,474 little less of a hot button issue, but there will still 103 00:05:07,541 --> 00:05:09,643 be people talking about it. And there will be Democrat 104 00:05:09,710 --> 00:05:11,411 Democrats campaigning on it, especially since they have 105 00:05:11,478 --> 00:05:14,515 a forum coming up that's invited to all the 106 00:05:14,581 --> 00:05:17,551 gubernatorial candidates, are going to appear to it, 107 00:05:17,618 --> 00:05:19,753 and it's being held by these child care providers 108 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:23,557 and some of the groups that represent them, where 109 00:05:23,624 --> 00:05:25,459 to keep raising the profile of this heading into into 110 00:05:25,526 --> 00:05:27,794 the fall. >> And I mean, it's kind of 111 00:05:27,861 --> 00:05:30,631 a subjective question here, but like, do you feel like 112 00:05:30,697 --> 00:05:34,067 this particular cost will resonate with people at a 113 00:05:34,134 --> 00:05:36,570 time when we're paying so much for gas and everything 114 00:05:36,637 --> 00:05:39,873 else? Does childcare kind of, I guess, get people's 115 00:05:39,940 --> 00:05:41,975 attention when they have all this noise. 116 00:05:42,042 --> 00:05:45,045 >> If you have a child in your house that you have to 117 00:05:45,112 --> 00:05:47,614 pay child care for. Yes, I remember 15, 20 years ago, 118 00:05:47,681 --> 00:05:50,884 long before this was an issue, I had family friends 119 00:05:50,951 --> 00:05:53,787 that said I would actually save money by staying home 120 00:05:53,854 --> 00:05:56,557 and quitting my job and not making my truck payment, 121 00:05:56,623 --> 00:05:58,725 and paying gas and insurance and taxes and not 122 00:05:58,792 --> 00:06:01,695 having to pay child care. That was a long time ago, 123 00:06:01,762 --> 00:06:04,198 and it's still the reality. Even more so. More people 124 00:06:04,264 --> 00:06:06,600 than ever need to have two incomes to fund even a 125 00:06:06,667 --> 00:06:09,369 modest lifestyle in Wisconsin. And if you have 126 00:06:09,436 --> 00:06:11,738 small children, that means they need to go somewhere. 127 00:06:11,805 --> 00:06:14,341 As more and more families have split apart from the 128 00:06:14,408 --> 00:06:16,810 larger umbrella of grandma or grandpa or aunts or 129 00:06:16,877 --> 00:06:19,213 uncles or around, you're relying on other people to 130 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,782 raise your kids. That is just the reality that 131 00:06:21,849 --> 00:06:24,251 people are in right now. And if it's your reality, 132 00:06:24,318 --> 00:06:27,287 it's one of the biggest realities facing you. 133 00:06:27,354 --> 00:06:30,657 >> And Ana any sense that this might affect specific 134 00:06:30,724 --> 00:06:32,492 races, whether it be the race for governor, you name 135 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:34,828 it? >> I mean, I think one of 136 00:06:34,895 --> 00:06:37,631 the interesting things here is that child care as like 137 00:06:37,698 --> 00:06:39,800 a need and as a household expense really spans. It 138 00:06:39,867 --> 00:06:42,069 spans the state, it spans political backgrounds, 139 00:06:42,135 --> 00:06:44,938 where that's not as much reflected is in the capital, 140 00:06:45,005 --> 00:06:47,274 where you have a little bit more of these hard line 141 00:06:47,341 --> 00:06:49,843 positions, especially within the Republican 142 00:06:49,910 --> 00:06:52,079 caucus. In the Assembly, there is a small but 143 00:06:52,145 --> 00:06:55,015 significant enough number of lawmakers who do believe 144 00:06:55,082 --> 00:06:57,017 in a more traditional family structure, who don't 145 00:06:57,084 --> 00:07:00,654 want to be subsidizing other people, raising your 146 00:07:00,721 --> 00:07:03,190 children, and they are really trying to kind of 147 00:07:03,257 --> 00:07:05,359 legislate around that. And so it's not just about 148 00:07:05,425 --> 00:07:08,395 those sort of market solutions. And so I think 149 00:07:08,462 --> 00:07:11,164 that at that level, at the legislative level, we might 150 00:07:11,231 --> 00:07:13,567 really see this issue come to the fore because people 151 00:07:13,634 --> 00:07:16,503 who kind of don't care about some of those more 152 00:07:16,570 --> 00:07:18,906 cultural fights, they just want a little bit more 153 00:07:18,972 --> 00:07:21,775 money and a little bit more ease in their bank accounts. 154 00:07:21,842 --> 00:07:23,744 Will those people be motivated by not just this, 155 00:07:23,810 --> 00:07:26,079 but this in combination with gas prices and 156 00:07:26,146 --> 00:07:29,183 inflation? And then also there's at least one 157 00:07:29,249 --> 00:07:32,419 district where one of these child care providers turned 158 00:07:32,486 --> 00:07:35,222 advocate is now running for a seat in the legislature. 159 00:07:35,289 --> 00:07:37,858 I don't know that this will be her only issue, but this 160 00:07:37,925 --> 00:07:39,893 will be one of her strongest issues, and 161 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,695 that'll be really interesting to watch. How 162 00:07:41,762 --> 00:07:44,231 resonant this is through the summer. 163 00:07:44,298 --> 00:07:46,066 Hendrickson, I believe, is the Democratic candidate. 164 00:07:46,133 --> 00:07:47,968 She's in a primary with Lisa White and 165 00:07:48,035 --> 00:07:49,937 Representative Jenna Jacobson against Howard 166 00:07:50,003 --> 00:07:51,805 Marklein, the powerful co-chair of the 167 00:07:51,872 --> 00:07:53,140 Legislature's Budget Committee. 168 00:07:53,207 --> 00:07:55,542 >> One of the most hotly watched races, anyways. 169 00:07:55,609 --> 00:07:58,478 >> And he has really been clear that he does not 170 00:07:58,545 --> 00:08:01,415 support this. This is not an issue where there's kind 171 00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:05,118 of gray between what Democrats support and what 172 00:08:05,185 --> 00:08:08,121 Republicans support with this child care subsidy, 173 00:08:08,188 --> 00:08:11,291 there are stark differences. And so if they want to have 174 00:08:11,358 --> 00:08:13,527 that kind of debate out there, it would be 175 00:08:13,594 --> 00:08:16,230 certainly a chance for for voters to see a difference 176 00:08:16,296 --> 00:08:19,399 in the way that, you know, these two parties view this 177 00:08:19,466 --> 00:08:21,602 issue in government. >> And that's why it was 178 00:08:21,668 --> 00:08:23,604 probably really helpful to have Ritch's background of 179 00:08:23,670 --> 00:08:26,540 how we got to this point, because some people may be 180 00:08:26,607 --> 00:08:28,509 confused to think there was a bipartisan solution to 181 00:08:28,575 --> 00:08:31,745 provide this funding from Covid on. It was all 182 00:08:31,812 --> 00:08:34,581 federal money that Governor Evers directed into this 183 00:08:34,648 --> 00:08:36,717 program. When the federal money ran out, with 184 00:08:36,783 --> 00:08:39,453 Republicans fighting it every step of the way, 185 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,822 repeatedly passing bills. That said, we would like 186 00:08:41,889 --> 00:08:43,757 oversight in how this federal money gets spent so 187 00:08:43,824 --> 00:08:45,859 you can't make that decision unilaterally. 188 00:08:45,926 --> 00:08:48,161 Governor Evers vetoed every one of those bills, and it 189 00:08:48,228 --> 00:08:50,330 was this compromise in the last time was not a 190 00:08:50,397 --> 00:08:52,432 compromise of, oh, we believe this should happen. 191 00:08:52,499 --> 00:08:55,402 It was, how do we spend this other pot of money 192 00:08:55,469 --> 00:08:58,138 that's still sitting here? So the Covid money is gone. 193 00:08:58,205 --> 00:09:01,175 This is now on the state's back, or we will see the 194 00:09:01,241 --> 00:09:02,509 consequences in households and businesses across the 195 00:09:02,576 --> 00:09:04,211 state. >> And you alluded to this 196 00:09:04,278 --> 00:09:06,380 earlier, but I was looking back through public 197 00:09:06,446 --> 00:09:09,650 statements from the leaders as this big deal was 198 00:09:09,716 --> 00:09:12,452 negotiated, the deal that fizzled. And I don't think 199 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:14,688 anybody was ever talking about putting some money 200 00:09:14,755 --> 00:09:17,124 behind child care as much as the governor has said 201 00:09:17,191 --> 00:09:20,127 it's a priority for him. So that kind of gives you a 202 00:09:20,194 --> 00:09:23,163 sense of of the politics on that one. Rich, we've got 203 00:09:23,230 --> 00:09:27,067 another cost going up here for some Wisconsin 204 00:09:27,134 --> 00:09:29,169 residents or out of state residents who come here to 205 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:32,539 go to school. Tuition going up at the University of 206 00:09:32,606 --> 00:09:37,077 Wisconsin. How much, first of all, and give us a sense 207 00:09:37,144 --> 00:09:40,614 of like, you know, how this came to be. 208 00:09:41,648 --> 00:09:44,985 >> Well, so the tuition increase specifically for 209 00:09:45,052 --> 00:09:49,089 tuition that the Board of Regents has approved is 2%, 210 00:09:49,156 --> 00:09:52,492 but there's another 3.5% increase with regard to 211 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,396 what are called segregated fees, you name it, fees for, 212 00:09:56,463 --> 00:10:01,134 you know, facilities. ET cetera. ET cetera. So we're 213 00:10:01,201 --> 00:10:04,972 talking 2%, which is below the the rate of inflation, 214 00:10:05,038 --> 00:10:09,443 of course. And but the argument over tuition, I'm 215 00:10:09,510 --> 00:10:13,347 not sure if it ever had a beginning or an end, but 216 00:10:13,413 --> 00:10:17,985 this specifically goes back to 2013, when there was a 217 00:10:18,051 --> 00:10:21,121 tuition freeze after Republicans found out and 218 00:10:21,188 --> 00:10:24,892 loudly complained for years and years that the 219 00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:29,930 University of Wisconsin system had something like 5 220 00:10:29,997 --> 00:10:32,666 to $600 million in what are called fund balances, 221 00:10:32,733 --> 00:10:36,103 tuition fund balances, essentially reserves. And 222 00:10:36,170 --> 00:10:39,540 they had those reserves at a time when tuition had 223 00:10:39,606 --> 00:10:43,510 increased by 5.5% year after year after year. So 224 00:10:43,577 --> 00:10:47,581 that created a lot of heartburn among Republicans. 225 00:10:47,648 --> 00:10:51,251 And that in 2013, there was the tuition freeze. Not 226 00:10:51,318 --> 00:10:54,321 long after that, Republicans, when they had 227 00:10:54,388 --> 00:10:58,959 both houses of the the legislature and Governor 228 00:10:59,026 --> 00:11:03,130 Walker in the governor's mansion, they cut $250 229 00:11:03,197 --> 00:11:06,667 million from the UW budget, essentially saying, you've 230 00:11:06,733 --> 00:11:09,770 got those reserves, spend them down. So the 231 00:11:09,837 --> 00:11:12,573 universities had these directions to spend down 232 00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:15,275 their reserves, and they did. Over the years, the 233 00:11:15,342 --> 00:11:19,613 reserves went down by 60%. Some universities wound up 234 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:24,251 in the red and had to do some some pretty, you know, 235 00:11:25,352 --> 00:11:28,956 stark things to get their budgets under control. We 236 00:11:29,022 --> 00:11:32,259 saw layoffs. We saw a lot of buyouts. You know, I 237 00:11:32,326 --> 00:11:36,797 think of Oshkosh, you know, marathon. I mean, excuse me, 238 00:11:36,864 --> 00:11:40,667 Stevens Point a number of universities did that. So 239 00:11:40,734 --> 00:11:45,339 the tuition freeze was lifted officially in 2021. 240 00:11:45,405 --> 00:11:49,776 The university system, the Board of Regents tread 241 00:11:49,843 --> 00:11:52,646 carefully. At first, they didn't immediately ask for 242 00:11:52,713 --> 00:11:57,251 a tuition increase. But since then, we've seen four 243 00:11:57,317 --> 00:12:00,487 consecutive tuition increases from the Board of 244 00:12:00,554 --> 00:12:04,191 Regents, and they haven't been the 5.5%. They've 245 00:12:04,258 --> 00:12:09,263 generally been close to or below CPI, which, you know, 246 00:12:09,863 --> 00:12:14,234 is pretty high. But Republicans don't like it. 247 00:12:14,301 --> 00:12:17,037 And even when they lifted the tuition freeze in 2021, 248 00:12:17,104 --> 00:12:21,441 some Republican lawmakers said, be careful if you, 249 00:12:21,508 --> 00:12:24,111 you know, get out of hand with this, we will freeze 250 00:12:24,178 --> 00:12:28,148 it again. So what we're seeing now is some 251 00:12:28,215 --> 00:12:31,485 Republicans, Tom Tiffany running for governor, 252 00:12:31,552 --> 00:12:34,321 saying we need another tuition freeze. That freeze 253 00:12:34,388 --> 00:12:37,157 lasted for eight years. Universities said it was 254 00:12:37,224 --> 00:12:39,359 harming, you know, quality of education. But on the 255 00:12:39,426 --> 00:12:44,131 other hand, Republicans said this is about access. 256 00:12:44,198 --> 00:12:48,468 This is about affordability. So, you know, the tuition 257 00:12:48,535 --> 00:12:52,339 increase is back to back to back is just not good for 258 00:12:52,406 --> 00:12:55,409 Wisconsin families. But also the university says 259 00:12:55,475 --> 00:12:58,545 our tuition rates are lower than other states. So it's 260 00:12:58,612 --> 00:13:02,082 a really complex issue. And it's just been years and 261 00:13:02,149 --> 00:13:04,451 years since they've been complaining and arguing 262 00:13:04,518 --> 00:13:06,887 over this. >> So certainly not 263 00:13:06,954 --> 00:13:09,323 somebody might be forgiven to look at that increase 2% 264 00:13:09,389 --> 00:13:12,593 and say, hey, what's the big deal? But this is 265 00:13:12,659 --> 00:13:16,496 something that goes back, boy, 16 years or 13 years 266 00:13:16,563 --> 00:13:18,432 at this point, now that they've been fighting over 267 00:13:18,498 --> 00:13:22,669 this particular round of tuition. So I think it's 268 00:13:22,736 --> 00:13:26,173 it's an open question on this issue like any other. 269 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,876 Is this going to be something that resonates in 270 00:13:28,942 --> 00:13:31,678 the campaign for Governor Ana? How about you go first? 271 00:13:31,745 --> 00:13:34,515 >> I mean, in some ways, I think that the arguments 272 00:13:34,581 --> 00:13:36,650 that we're seeing from Democrats and Republicans 273 00:13:36,717 --> 00:13:39,319 mirrors the property tax and K-12 funding thing, 274 00:13:39,386 --> 00:13:41,722 right? Which is that you have these kind of levers, 275 00:13:41,788 --> 00:13:43,991 and as you pull one, another, one goes up. And 276 00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:46,860 so in this case, Democrats are saying, well, the state 277 00:13:46,927 --> 00:13:49,429 has been defunding the UW system. What do you expect? 278 00:13:49,496 --> 00:13:52,366 Of course, tuition is going to have to go up one of 279 00:13:52,432 --> 00:13:55,202 those, you know, they're sort of in balance with one 280 00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:57,104 another. I think another point of tension that's 281 00:13:57,171 --> 00:13:59,273 going to be really interesting is the way that 282 00:13:59,339 --> 00:14:01,542 this affects Madison. And in some ways, Milwaukee 283 00:14:01,608 --> 00:14:04,745 compared to all the other schools, because Madison 284 00:14:04,811 --> 00:14:06,346 especially has this international cachet, right? 285 00:14:06,413 --> 00:14:09,383 And can bring in students from out of state and from 286 00:14:09,449 --> 00:14:12,386 across the world who will pay full freight, and that 287 00:14:12,452 --> 00:14:15,956 offset some of those costs in a way that Stevens Point 288 00:14:16,023 --> 00:14:19,293 Oshkosh are much more kind of aimed at local Wisconsin 289 00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:21,328 kids. You have Tom Tiffany now coming out and saying 290 00:14:21,395 --> 00:14:25,199 he wants to see fewer international students. He 291 00:14:25,265 --> 00:14:28,168 the UW. What will that do for this kind of other 292 00:14:28,235 --> 00:14:30,704 revenue source that UW-Madison has and how that 293 00:14:30,771 --> 00:14:33,874 feeds into the system? Lots to play with and to what 294 00:14:33,941 --> 00:14:36,243 extent that motivates voters who, again, maybe 295 00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:39,012 they face the daycare charge charges. Now they're 296 00:14:39,079 --> 00:14:41,615 facing increased tuition on the other end, it's it's 297 00:14:41,682 --> 00:14:45,152 expensive to raise a kid in Wisconsin. 298 00:14:45,219 --> 00:14:47,754 Whether or not it resonates could just be a matter of 299 00:14:47,821 --> 00:14:50,958 whether or not Tom Tiffany decides to put some 300 00:14:51,024 --> 00:14:53,861 resources behind it and put it in front of people and 301 00:14:53,927 --> 00:14:57,331 make it his message, or focus on other stuff. 302 00:14:57,397 --> 00:14:59,766 >> There's a lot out there, and one of the things 303 00:14:59,833 --> 00:15:01,768 that's interesting is a report just came out from 304 00:15:01,835 --> 00:15:04,137 the center for report on the Wisconsin Economy, 305 00:15:04,204 --> 00:15:05,939 which is Crowley, which is this conservative think 306 00:15:06,006 --> 00:15:08,108 tank that was created by Walker in his 307 00:15:08,175 --> 00:15:11,078 administration at the UW, with the goal of having a 308 00:15:11,144 --> 00:15:14,348 little more conservative, friendly economics ideas 309 00:15:14,414 --> 00:15:16,917 being floated out there, as from the UW, giving it that 310 00:15:16,984 --> 00:15:20,020 that stamp of authenticity. And they came out and said, 311 00:15:20,087 --> 00:15:23,357 actually, UW tuition is too low. It's below its peer 312 00:15:23,423 --> 00:15:26,627 institutions. It's actually freezing. It is subsidizing 313 00:15:26,693 --> 00:15:29,263 this private enterprise of kids that go to college and 314 00:15:29,329 --> 00:15:31,431 get this degree and then are very successful making 315 00:15:31,498 --> 00:15:34,401 their college tuition cheaper subsidizes them at 316 00:15:34,468 --> 00:15:36,336 the expense of everyone else who's impacted by 317 00:15:36,403 --> 00:15:38,438 these costs. So it's interesting, even some of 318 00:15:38,505 --> 00:15:41,275 the conservative groups out there aren't supporting a 319 00:15:41,341 --> 00:15:43,777 freeze or keeping it this low. 320 00:15:43,844 --> 00:15:46,747 >> Zac, I want to turn to another issue with a long 321 00:15:46,813 --> 00:15:48,649 political backstory. There was this settlement this 322 00:15:48,715 --> 00:15:52,619 week or last week reached with Tyco, a PFAs 323 00:15:53,453 --> 00:15:56,490 manufacturer, for $10 million with the state. 324 00:15:56,557 --> 00:16:00,861 This is a big deal. Tell us why and then tell us kind 325 00:16:00,928 --> 00:16:03,263 of the politics that led to this. 326 00:16:03,330 --> 00:16:05,199 >> Well, these lawsuits have been out there about 327 00:16:05,265 --> 00:16:08,602 PFAs contamination throughout. Tyco makes 328 00:16:08,669 --> 00:16:10,737 firefighting foam and equipment, and so they've 329 00:16:10,804 --> 00:16:12,472 contaminated the ground around there. As we've 330 00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:15,475 learned more about what PFAs does and the forever 331 00:16:15,542 --> 00:16:17,444 chemical. But the history of this is fascinating 332 00:16:17,511 --> 00:16:20,581 because we talk a lot about elections having 333 00:16:20,647 --> 00:16:23,784 consequences. This decision is a consequence of Supreme 334 00:16:23,851 --> 00:16:26,119 Court elections. So you have to go back and look at 335 00:16:26,186 --> 00:16:28,422 that slow transition transition that occurred 336 00:16:28,488 --> 00:16:30,958 from Democrats and liberals taking over the court, 337 00:16:31,024 --> 00:16:32,860 because there were two major decisions that they 338 00:16:32,926 --> 00:16:36,230 issued in 2025 that allowed this to happen. The first 339 00:16:36,296 --> 00:16:39,333 is that with the DOJ lawsuit, they said, you do 340 00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,002 not actually have to create a new rule for each version 341 00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:44,238 of PFAs, chemical or contamination that's out 342 00:16:44,304 --> 00:16:47,474 there in order to put into place these kind of fines 343 00:16:47,541 --> 00:16:50,277 or sue people over the Wisconsin Spills Act about 344 00:16:50,344 --> 00:16:52,446 any things that spilled into our ground that can 345 00:16:52,513 --> 00:16:55,382 harm our waterways. So that was a big win. The city 346 00:16:55,449 --> 00:16:58,252 don't have to go back each time. But then another part, 347 00:16:58,318 --> 00:17:01,188 another separate lawsuit, part of the Evers versus 348 00:17:01,255 --> 00:17:03,957 Marklein lawsuit said, well, the state doesn't actually 349 00:17:04,024 --> 00:17:06,426 have to go and worry about the Joint Committee for the 350 00:17:06,493 --> 00:17:08,629 Review of Administrative Rules to promulgate new 351 00:17:08,695 --> 00:17:11,598 rules for what the standards for PFAs are. And 352 00:17:11,665 --> 00:17:13,600 so when that happened, the Evers administration was 353 00:17:13,667 --> 00:17:16,670 able to push through new standards on PFAs 354 00:17:16,737 --> 00:17:19,206 contamination that matched stricter federal standards. 355 00:17:19,273 --> 00:17:21,542 Now, the DOJ doesn't have to worry about getting sign 356 00:17:21,608 --> 00:17:24,144 off from the Republicans for settling these lawsuits, 357 00:17:24,211 --> 00:17:26,380 and they can actually prosecute this spills act 358 00:17:26,446 --> 00:17:28,248 for anyone that's out there that's contaminated the 359 00:17:28,315 --> 00:17:30,317 ground, which allows settlements like this to 360 00:17:30,384 --> 00:17:32,819 happen, creating money to help people that have been 361 00:17:32,886 --> 00:17:34,788 impacted by this pollution. >> So you're not going to 362 00:17:34,855 --> 00:17:37,925 see any of that in the settlement language, 363 00:17:37,991 --> 00:17:39,726 legal environment that everybody is operating in 364 00:17:39,793 --> 00:17:41,895 now under this Liberal majority on the court, 365 00:17:41,962 --> 00:17:44,798 which we know is going to last until at least 2030. 366 00:17:44,865 --> 00:17:46,967 >> Yeah, and it's not going to change anytime soon. 367 00:17:47,034 --> 00:17:49,469 >> And on other issues perhaps as well, in subtle 368 00:17:49,536 --> 00:17:51,004 ways. >> But the court matters. 369 00:17:51,071 --> 00:17:52,906 That's why we watch the court. 370 00:17:52,973 --> 00:17:55,475 >> The court always matters. That is very true. That's 371 00:17:55,542 --> 00:17:58,078 all the time we have for today. Thanks for joining 372 00:17:58,145 --> 00:18:01,582 us. This has been inside Wisconsin politics. Be sure 373 00:18:01,648 --> 00:18:05,052 to follow us on PBS wisconsin.org. WPR.org, 374 00:18:05,118 --> 00:18:09,256 YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.