been a week since the
budget surplus deal fell
apart at the Capitol, and
we're still making
sense of the
fallout. Today,
we talk about
how int's playing out
the governor's race. More
insight on the talks
that failed
and more information about
what it would mean for the
state's Thism line.
is Wisconsin politics.
I'm Shawn
Johnson here with my
colleagues Wagtendonk and
Zac Schultz. Hey, you
two. >> So,lo.
Zac, we pretty
much ran
out of time last
week because there ares
so many it and so many
players, so many motivations to
discuss. We
barely touched
on part of
it, which is how
it's being ineived
the Democratic primary
for governor,
which just
as well, because we
had more reactions
since that
show and
since the fell
apart. I
guess if you had to
sum it up,
this big
Democratic primary,
how are the
candidates dealing
with this
big deal
that weren't
really expecting to
come along?
>> Well, it was to watch the
reactions its
was unfolding
when I think
most people thought this was
going to pass
in the days
leading u
p it.
We saw kind of
I three
different responses.
There were two
very clear
no's from
Francesca and
Hong and from
Kelda Roys,
both running in
a more progressive
stance. The two
only that voteually got to
on this because still in the
legislature. Then we saw Missy
Hughes come out.
Absolutely all for
it. ofne
the only
ones to to
say this is a good
deal and it sense to try and
get tryway to, perhaps
and give herself a little attention in a
crowded race where struggle for
oxygen. And saw kind of a
muddled middle of a candidates that
really were theally don't like
process. And this may not be the best
deal, but clear they were not
ready to come out it. And then
it failed. And comingnives started
out afterwards. And we've seen since then
has been different, but felt like those
lanes were decided in the lead
up to it. And afterwards they exposed
a were feelingof
about it and they were ready to
blame more specifically for how it went apart.
>> Anna, how are processing this? You
know, I
guess variety of
reactions all
coming from these
candidates at
once. >> Yeah.
Well, in some ways, I think the bill
was an tool anyways, right.
For it. And sodwho
all of a sudden it presented an opportunity
for people in this
crowded primary
who are not
really distinguished.
I still
run into people who
do not know that governor'sa
race this year, So this is a
way and
most people are not watching our show.
Apparently they will, they'll
start. Yeah,
but so
this is an
opportunity for those
Democrats to try
to message
around school
funding property
taxes, electionlly big
year issues, and
to try to
stand out a little
bit. >> Yeah. Talk
about trying sort. There are
of degrees of no
and degrees of yes,
like on on
degrees of
no. Kelda
Roys. I
think we were
just checking out
our emails
and she
came out against this
deal in
less than two hours
after it was
made public.
So there's
somebody trying to let
people know I'm
definitely against this,
and she's got to vote
on it mightnother, so
as well take a position Francesca Hong the
same day. And then got the candidates,
as you who workednan
for Tony Evers
saying, I didn't like the
process and then some.
I exactlyow
where the deald on
where, you
know, they're just
basically saying
it failed. We got to move
on. You know,
why is why
would they give
such a a
muddled answer, as
you called it?
Why not take a
position this thing?
>> I think
because there
was a lot to knowing how
it was going to come out. Most of
these any ofved innot
the discussions. probably
did not know that
they were even happening
at this time. And
I think
it probably was
true that Kelda
may not have known they were
happening, given how quickly
she responded,
it have
known that,
hey, Senate
Dems were not
in the which
is ultimately killed
this. And
she the
most distinct
opportunity to put her
stamp on this entire
process . Because no matter
what, she was the that wase
in the chamber it could have
passed that said, no, that
was thet
deciding vote,
but a
deciding vote adjacent in
terms of being able
to say, this is
going down, I will
not vote for it. stand with
the rest of my colleagues. So there are
definitely a lot of to be gained
for some of people and being very
clear, and there's a lose. And
so some of that is just the approach
that have taken in
this primary assumedrunner or
frontrunner. And Governory to
Evers to begin people got multiple
who've worked in his staff, two lieutenant
ors, and then
other people
that are not close
to the Evers administration
at all. So they littlee a
more freewheeling for, hoping're
you know, the
if they win a primary or
come close, know, anyg, you
blessings upon them at
the last minute, can be farther apart.
>> Yeah. He has said
repeatedly he's not
going endorse in
this campaign.
And he seems
like with the
candidates increasingly, especially as
they kind
of trash his
deal as as
they did this time
around. Ana.
I think what
strikes me is that
these campaign and theyt
had a plan.
They want to
talk about
certain Theysages.
want to talk
about Donald
Trump. They want to
define themselves on their
terms. And
when the governor
negotiates an
agreement with Republican
leaders, it kind
of throws a wrench in those
plans, Well, right. I mean,
there's sort of policy issues, and then
there's was acs. And this
political week, right?
This all about these
negotiations and
kind of the
powerful, the
negotiations of power that were taking
place. And that's really different
than the issue of
property taxes, which
nobody is
going to go
on record
supporting high
property taxes.
Nobody, in theially
Democratic Party, is going
to go on record
not fundng to fully
public schools.
And doo how
you kind
of take a
stance that
allows you to
be on sort of the
right side of that
politically? Well, then
also taking
part the
political maneuverings in the
capital, which again, like
normal people
don't follow, don't
really just goingd. They're
to see what's on
their mailers in a of months saying
voted for or
against money
in your pocket or
money for your
schools. And so really kind
of complicated toce
be doing right
now. >> And do
you think that,
you know,
coming out favor
of the deal
is Hughes did, for
example, going to
help you stand out
in this crowded primary
in a
time when
people are not
necessarily paying attention to this
race. >> Well, I
will probablys is
the only time that we've talked about Missy
Hughes and said her more than once
in a podcast. for someone who has
been polling in the single digits, that
matters. sway theowe're
the voting public, getting your name out
and taking a stance,
I was a
move for her to say, no, I will
stand up something
as opposed to
like David
Crowley, whose name
we haven't mentioned He's running right in
the middle of that We saw the
releases he put about this bill before
and after, and I don't know 100%
whether he or didn't like it
or was just kind in thetting
middle on it, but Shawn, I want
to ask you becauseney thing,
we've seen the numbers. Thatu
was something therecrats put out
right away saying wasn'tnsustainable. It
real money. It would have set us up
for a really budget. How much do
you time forat worked
them, versus how Was it a convenient
excuse for them afterwards when they really voted
it ofn because
power maneuvers?
>> Oh, it could be a mix of
both. I mean, if at theook
fiscal Bureau Oneida did ah
great story on
yesterday, that's a
pretty real
concern. You
know, or not that
was their concern for
voting this
thing down or what
political calculations
they made.
I think when you're
looking at a
2.95 billion projected
budget deficit at
the end of the next two
year budget, not the we're in now,
but the one that
feels real to
me on you. I
mean, just numbers, right.
>> And, you know, the
sort that numbert caveat
from the doesn't take intol
account we are in at
period of sort of remarkable economic
nty right so it And
says that we would have that deficit, that
sort of almost $3
billion thisit were
to have passed. And
that's not accounting for
potential changes to
tax revenue,
to fact
that there's like war going on right
now gas prices,ecting
all these from allt things.
of the Democrats voted against it, and
then also from the Republicans who voted
t it, there was this
concern about the cost this thing, which
was kind with so even
those kind of firmer numbers, it,
you know, justifies,
I think, what
some of those
lawmakers were saying on the
floor. toind of points
this place,
again, political
gamesmanship wehat
often see when it
comes to
appropriations, which is ist
what is our
money for? What is
our state for?us
Is it for like this? Is it
to pockets?back
And so there was that was really the
contours of the fight. >> You know, I
think. office and theyome
want to do things
and they
can just
imagine how nice
it beould
to do things if
everything goes their
way in
2027 and
their inarty was
control of the Senate,
and who knows
what And so
probably they would
like that money to
spend on wantorities and don't
to come into that
situation running a
deficit. So,
you know,
people become more
budget hawks
kind of depending on the
circumstances. I time tofrom
time, I will
say thing that
stood out to this week is
Tony did an
interview with
Wisn TV
where, and
we alluded to
this a bit last week
in terms of the way
that the theseursuednd
negotiations, but he
was straight
up asked
if he
sought out Democratic
votes on
this bill,
and he said,
no, Zac, how
do you in theat
Senate, given the, know, political
breakdown there?
>> I mean, I
would call it political
malpractice the
sense that anyone
who looks
at that,
apparently he was
told that he had the
Republican passes alone to
it in that chamber.
1 surprising that
he count
just But those.
especially given
the senators
that we've talked
about repeatedly
in that
chamber that have voted
against every one of these proposals, including
e last
three budgets,
and Senators
Soros and Kapenga
Nosse is leaving. We
talked it last week.
There's no way he's going
to be a vote on this. No
one I don't.er believe
care who you're to. But then that
assumes that you're going to get Kapenga as
well. And not to count Senator
Hutten, who's also leaving the chamber, who voted
no. thoughtk they
maybe more likely could have gotten him.
But. CapEx Bongino in last couple of
budgets. So assumptions. At
a time when have Democrats over
there, why not reach out
and say, hey, if you, will
you be there? couplentioned a
of names for Democrats,
vulnerable Democrats that are up for
election this Jeffsion and
Smith, and
why would not reach out and
say, count on you if
we need to? You have toeven
necessarily offer them inuehing,
and make them feel like they're part of
the saidt that he
he didn't, it seems really strange.
shaky ground to go into negotiations, counting
on one of those
two lawmakers you just
mentioned to vote
for your deal.
We did
get a
question from
someone in our
audience that feels
timely now.
This came from
a student
at the of Wisconsin, La
Crosse, in theirwy watch
legislative Here's herss.
question about
special sessions.
>> My name is
Katie and I'm studying
political science
at UW-La Crosse.
My question
is, why
have there been so
many special
sessions called by
Governor Evers? And
does this signal
breakdown in
normal legislative
compromise, isr
it simply
a strategic
political tool?
>> All right.
Well, we
have all
covered our
share of special
sessions now.
And so let's
all onust chime in
this. But Anya, you first,
how would you answer
this question about special
sessions? >> I
mean, again, I think
that they are often messaging tool and
especially in divided ment,
right? Where
Democrats are never
going get their bills on
the Republicans
control it,
or at they're sort
of values
first, their top
priorities on the
floor. This
is a way for the
Democratic toovernor
signal what is
most important to him
by calling these
special sessions,
and ifn also,
he does it
on kind of widelygain,
popular no matter
how you
vote, he can
force votes
on issues. So he
can for example,
he he
called a special
session a few years
ago on child care,
trying force
Republicans to vote in
a way that could then get messaged as
Republicans don't care whether
you get child
care. And so that's
one use of
it. But
I will say I ever covered
special government. I have only
ever covered Evers
special sessions. So
I'm curious
for you guys who
have covered
when Republicans
controlled the
legislature and the
governor's office, worked in
tandem, Walker
years, what did
special sessions look
like then?
>> Derrick. I seem to
remember a pretty big
special session
when Governor
Scott Walker was
sworn in,
actually, the
day inauguration.
He. He
declared a
special on jobs. I
think he called it.
>> Yeah, that seemed
to be big.y, pretty
Some acts came
out of that that
still resonate with a of the public
and may bring forme traumatic memories
a lot of people marched around the
Capitol protests. Yeah,t
in that
era, mean,
we have to look back in
25 years
of my time
covering this
legislature, has been
one session
in which there
was truly
divided government in the
legislature, in which
Republicans held and theber,
Democrats held a Somber.
most of the time, the
past two half decades,
we've looked there hasn't been
compromised thecessary in
legislature. It's come
between the executive
and legislative
branches. So
special sessions are
one way
for a governor
to draw
attention to what they
need And I asked
Governor Evers about this a
couple callinge was
him left and right, and he only has
a couple bring attention to
what he budgetrite a
which he knows will get immediately trashed,
at least he can and introduce his
values, principles, and
say, to would like
see happen. And then can call special
sessions. his onlyan that,
legal power to
do something in the Capitol.
The rest of the the bully's
pulpit and going and talking to the
media. wouldink I
have answered Katie's weekserently a few
ago than I would Andw.
and that
is to say that a few weeks ago
I would sessions from
this governor basically
all about
messaging, that they are all
about forcing
Republicans to take a
position against
his priorities
or to get his
priorities on the record. would
say this last special
session that where heed,
brought Republicans in
to pass
a deal,
he thought
that they negotiated.
That's kind of a
special session,
as the
founders intended, or the
framers of
the state constitution
would have intended,
where, look, the
regular sessions
done or are
calendar days are
done. We
have this big issue
we to deal with, and
we let'sime with,
let's agree to come back in for a
special session of the
legislature. moret's
ceremonial. you
had everybody
actually building
versus most
special sessions
like the
one on gerrymandering, for
example, that was
for show.
And by the way,
they gaveled
that out last
Thursday, kind of
when nobody was
paying attention.
That was
done. That was one
where the governor wanted to highlight an issue,
said, gerrymandering. And
Republicans said, we'll consider
it and
not anymore. It's
gaveled out.
>> Yeah. And Republicansat
can respond to
the governor trying
to call attention to something
h is special session
what's called a skeletal
session. Which two
of come in,
they theyel it in,
gavel it out. They don't even have to
bring So that'sg. do
the response to want attention on this.
You want attention, we'll give you an empty
dark turn the lightserally
on. That's pay totion we'll
it. But it is about politics. It
all. It This lasttics.
one was a little different, and the thing
that's probably deceiving most people is they're
legally called special ns
when the governor extraordinary sessions
in Those are juste calls
names. All outsidehappens
the regular years ago declaredans
the done inr was going
March. So nine to campaign.
That's only reason. It's not
regular session. It's l.
But it was
a special time in the
Capitol >> Yeah. Yeswill
they will. you
want to ask us
a stateon about
government or senditics,
us an email
at Inside
Wisconsin Politics at
wpri dot
before we wrap
up here,
I did want
to talk about the
campaign for
governor. the
Republican side. We
had a
state GOP
convention pastthis
weekend. Tom
Tiffany is now the candidate. He doesn't
have the wayarybout
that the hadndidates
to in 2022,
so he can
focus on the
general election
now. And yet,
Zac, we're
talking about the 2020 election here.
What is
Tom Tiffany
talking about?
>> He cannot get
away from
Trump's main
grievance, lostt that he
to Joe Biden in 2020.
And because
he still has
such a
powerful grip theer
Republican Party nationally,
which we just
saw in
Republican primaries
in Kentucky
and in Louisiana
Senate races,
that his people
have to fall
in line on his
beliefs incorrect
beliefs that
the 2020 election
was stolen. So
Tom Tiffany is
still answering
questions about
election fraud
investigations and whether
Joe Biden won
the election
with, you know,
kind of diffusing
or deferring
and to get
away from it
because he can't
come out and
honestly say, no, of
course Trump lost. That's
been warranted over and
over. Every Republican
group out there,
from Vos
to the for Lawsin Institute
and Liberty has said so. And that
is something that Democrats love to hear, because
they around hisnue to
neck all the way to November as much
as they they tiesern,
him to Donald from these grievances
four years, six years ago now that the
better off >> Andhem.
Ana just real quick, I mean, it seems
like this issue where as much
as he wants to handful those
of voters who are in the middle, this
is a he can't cross as
far as Republicans are concerned.
mean, I think of the lessons from
this week is that politics, it's
not the time you are a Republican
to ared so we Trump.
seeing him sort of himself again to
this issue. see interesting to
how much does that motivate his Republican
rs, and how much does
that turn off those moderate voters and
Democratic voters? the timeallly.
we have for today. Thanks for joining us.
This politics. Our colleague
Rich Kremer will be next week. Be
sure to wisconsin.org.
WPR.org, YouTube,
or geterever you
your podcasts.