% >>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
% I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA
% JOURNALIST WITH "HERE & NOW" ON
% PBS WISCONSIN, AND TODAY IS
% NOVEMBER 17.
% ON AVERAGE, IN WISCONSIN, AT
% LEAST 20,000 PEOPLE GO OUT
% SUITABLE HOUSING NIGHTLY.
% AS THE COLD WINTER MONTHS
% APPROACH, LAWMAKERS CONTINUE TO
% STALL ON FUNDING INITIATIVES TO
% ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.
% JOE VOLK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF
% THE COALITION AGAINST
% HOMELESSNESS JOINS ME TO DISCUSS
% THIS, AND, JOE, THANK YOU FOR
% BEING HERE.
% >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME
% AGAIN.%>> SO THAT ESTIMATE OF
20 ,000,
% IS THAT PEOPLE IN SHELTERS,
% PEOPLE IN TENTS?
% DO WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW MANY
% PEOPLE ARE WITHOUT HOMES?
% >> WELL, OF COURSE, TRYING TO
% COUNT THE HOMELESS IS ALWAYS A
% PROBLEM AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, OF
% COURSE, TWO DEFINITIONS AND TWO
% WAYS OF ACCOUNTING.
% THAT, 20,000 FIGURE, IT IS
% SOMETHING THE COALITION HAS COME
% UP WITH AS AN ESTIMATE, AND THAT
% INCLUDES PEOPLE IN SHELTERS,
% PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREET, AND
% ALSO PEOPLE DOUBLING UP.
% IF YOU GOT SOMEBODY THAT'S
% LIVING IN THE BASEMENT, LET'S
% SAY, OF AN APARTMENT BUILDING
% BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE,
% NOWHERE ELSE TO STAY, IT WOULD
% ALSO INCLUDE THEM.
% >> HAS HOMELESSNESS INCREASED
% DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND HAS THE
% PANDEMIC CHANGED WHO THIS
% POPULATION IS?
% >> ALMOST ABSOLUTELY NOT ONLY IN
% WISCONSIN, BUT FRANKLY,
% NATIONWIDE.
% WE ARE NOW LOOKING AT 15%
% INCREASE, AND DURING THE
% PANDEMIC, ACTUALLY, EVERYTHING
% STAYED PRETTY STABLE, AND THERE
% WAS -- AND IN MOST PART, BECAUSE
% OF THE RENT MORATORIUM, BECAUSE
% OF THE EVICTION MORATORIUM, BUT
% THAT'S NOW GONE, AND HAS BEEN
% GONE NOW FOR ABOUT TWO MONTHS,
% AND SO I THINK ONE OF THE TESTS
% IS IS THAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO
% SEE A LOT MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE
% ACTUALLY LIVING OUTSIDE, WHAT WE
% CALL UNSHELTERED HOMELESSNESS.
% IN MADISON IS RIGHT NOW
% GRAPPLING WITH TRYING TO MOVE
% PEOPLE OUT OF PARKS THAT HAVE
% BEEN LIVING IN TENTS, AND TO
% THIS ALTERNATIVE ON THE EDGE OF
% TOWN.%MILWAUKEE HAS THE SAME
PROBLEM
% IN TERMS OF THE MARTIN LUTHER
% KING PARK.
% AWAY LACROSSE IS TRYING TO MOVE
% PEOPLE OUT OF PARKS.
% WHAT YOU ARE SEEING AND DIDN'T
% SEE ALL OF THAT BEFORE IN
% WISCONSIN IS ENCAMPMENTS LIKE
% THE 1920s AND '30s.
% >> SO THIS IS OFTEN SEEN AS AN
% ISSUE IN BIGGER CITIES.
% YOU MENTIONED MADISON,
% MILWAUKEE, LACROSSE, BUT IS THIS
% HAPPENING IN CITIES ACROSS
% WISCONSIN?
% DO WE HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW THIS
% EXISTS ACROSS THE STATE?
% >> WE DO.
% AND IT DOES EXIST THROUGHOUT THE
% ENTIRE STATE.
% ONE OF THE WAYS THAT WE KNOW
% THAT IN TERMS OF A DATA POINT IS
% THAT WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF
% PUBLIC INSTRUCTION KEEPS TRACK
% OF HOW MANY HOMELESS STUDENTS
% THERE ARE EVERY YEAR IN THE
% STATE OF WISCONSIN.
% LAST YEAR, THEY FOUND THAT THERE
% WERE JUST NORTH OF 18,000
% HOMELESS KIDS DURING THE YEAR
% THAT WERE IN SCHOOL, OF COURSE,
% THAT DOESN'T COUNT KIDS NOT IN
% SCHOOL, BUT THE POINT IS THAT
% YOU CAN THEN LOOK AT THE NUMBERS
% OF -- NUMBERS IN ALL OF THE
% SCHOOL DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE
% STATE, AND WHAT YOU WILL THEN
% FIND IS THAT NEARLY EVERY
% DISTRICT, 98% OF THE DISTRICTS,
% HAD SOME HOMELESSNESS, WHICH
% MEANS THAT THIS ALL 72 COUNTIES
% IN WISCONSIN ARE EXPERIENCING
% THIS.
% IN RURAL AREAS, IT MAY NOT BE AS
% VISIBLE AS 30, 40, 50 PEOPLE
% LIVING IN TENTS IN A PARK, BUT
% IT IS STILL THERE.
% >> DO ANY FEDERAL PANDEMIC
% DOLLARS GO TOWARDS ADDRESSING
% HOMELESSNESS SPECIFICALLY?
% >> YES.
% FOR THE MOST PART, THEY'VE BEEN
% IN TWO AREAS.
% ONE WAS KIND OF A BLOCK GRANT
% APPROACH THAT THE FEDS GAVE TO
% THE STATES AND COUNTIES, AND
% THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN USED TO HOUSE
% PEOPLE IN LOCAL HOTELS.
% PART OF THE PROBLEM, WHEN THE
% PANDEMIC STARTED, OF COURSE, IS
% THAT MOST OF THE SHELTERS ARE
% KIND OF, LIKE, A CONGREGATION
% KIND OF A SITE.
% YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T SOCIAL
% DISTANCE WHEN YOU GOT 70 PEOPLE
% IN AN AUDITORIUM ROOM SLEEPING
% NEXT TO EACH OTHER, SO THE
% AMOUNT OF SHELTER SPACE THAT
% THERE WAS THROUGHOUT THE STATE
% JUST OVERNIGHT WAS BANNED, IF
% NOT MORE, AND SO THE RESPONSE
% WAS FOR THE CITY TO RENT HOTEL
% ROOMS, AND THAT'S HAPPENED ALL
% OVER THE STATE.
% THE OTHER BIG ONE, WHICH
% ACTUALLY PREVENTED A WHOLE SLEW
% OF PEOPLE FROM BEING OUT ON THE
% STREET IS THE FEDERAL RENT
% ASSISTANCE THAT'S BEEN GOING ON
% NOW, IS STILL GOING ON, WHICH
% ALLOWS PEOPLE TO GET THEIR
% BACKRENT IF THEY BECAME
% UNEMPLOYED BECAUSE OF THE
% PANDEMIC, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH
% EVERYBODY THESE DAYS THAT IS
% UNEMPLOYED, SO BETWEEN THOSE TWO
% THINGS, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
% DID STEP IN AND TRY TO SOFTEN
% THE BLOW, AND, ACTUALLY, DID A
% FAIRLY GOOD JOB.
% >> OUTSIDE OF THE FEDERAL
% DOLLARS, IN THE STATE OF
% WISCONSIN, THIS IS A BIPARTISAN
% ISSUE.
% LAWMAKERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE
% AISLE EXPRESSED INTEREST IN
% ADDRESSING HOMELESSNESS AND SEE
% IT AS A PROBLEM, BUT WHY DOES
% THE LEGISLATURE, ITSELF,
% CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE TO PASS
% POLICY INITIATIVES OR FUNDING
% THAT WILL ACTUALLY TAKE ACTION?
% >> YEAH.
% WELL, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT EVEN
% REALLY THE WHOLE LEGISLATURE.
% IT IS ABOUT FOUR TO FIVE
% SENATORS IN THE WISCONSIN STATE
% SENATE.%WE HAVE A GREAT CHAM
PION IN THE
% WISCONSIN ASSEMBLY.
% I MEAN, I SHOULD BACK UP.%WE
HAVE A GREAT CHAMPION IN
% TERMS OF THE CURRENT GOVERNOR,
% WHO, IN HIS BUDGET, HAD A HUGE
% STEP FORWARD IN TERMS OF FUNDING
% FOR HOMELESS PROGRAMS THROUGHOUT
% THE STATE.
% WE HAVE A GREAT CHAMPION IN JIM
% STEINEKE, WHO WAS THE REPUBLICAN
% MAJORITY LEADER IN THE STATE
% ASSEMBLY, AND HE'S BEEN VERY
% ACTIVE AND WAS THE AUTHOR,
% ESSENTIALLY, OF EIGHT BILLS IN
% THE LAST SESSION, OF WHICH ONLY
% ONE WAS PASSED BY THE SENATE.
% IF YOU LOOK AT PAST ACTIONS, THE
% STEINEKE BILLS PASSED THE SENATE
% ON A 99-0 VOTE, AND -- BUT THE
% SENATE REFUSED -- THE SENATE
% LEADERSHIP ACTUALLY REFUSED TO
% JUST PUT THE BILLS ON THE FLOOR
% OF THE SENATE, AND WHERE I THINK
% THEY WOULD HAVE PASSED, THEY
% WOULD HAVE GOTTEN, YOU KNOW,
% VOTES, SO IT IS REALLY JUST
% FOUR, FIVE VERY CONSERVATIVE
% REPUBLICAN SENATORS IN THE
% SENATE THAT IS BLOCKING
% INITIATIVES FROM THE GOVERNOR
% AND FROM THE REPUBLICAN-LED
% ASSEMBLY.
% >> AND IN THE ASSEMBLY,
% LEGISLATION INTRODUCED LAST
% MONTH WOULD INCLUDE PAY-FO
% PAY-FOR-PRFORMANCE GRANTS AS%
WELL AS A PROVISION TO
% CRIMINALIZE AND FINE PEOPLE WHO
% ARE HOMELESS ENCAMPED ON PUBLIC
% PROPERTY THAT HAS NOT BEEN
% DESIGNATED FOR THAT PURPOSE.
% WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF THOSE
% INITIATIVES?
% DOES IT WORK TO FINE PEOPLE WHO
% ARE IN THESE ENCAMPMENTS IF IT
% IS NOT ZONED OR SPECIFICALLY
% DESIGNATED FOR THAT PURPOSE?
% >> RIGHT.
% WELL, LET ME JUST SAY THAT WAS
% AN ILL-GOTTEN IDEA.
% AND, IN FACT, THE ASSEMBLY
% REPUBLICANS EVEN FIGURED THAT
% OUT BECAUSE THEY PULLED THAT
% BEFORE EVEN VOTING FOR IT.
% THEN THEY HAD A NUMBER OF OTHER
% BILLS THAT WOULD ATTEMPT TO
% INCREASE BY INCENTIVIZING TO
% INVESTORS THE NUMBER OF LOW
% INCOME HOUSING UNITS IN THE
% STATE.%IN FACT, I THINK WHEN
YOU
% COMPARE THE GOVERNOR'S
% INITIATIVE, ESPECIALLY IN THE
% AREA OF CREATING NEW LOW INCOME
% HOUSING TO THE ASSEMBLY VERSION,
% THE GOVERNOR'S PACKAGE WOULD
% HAVE CERTAINLY DONE MUCH, MUCH,
% MUCH MORE, BUT BESIDES THE ONE
% BILL THAT WAS NOT VERY
% WELL-THOUGHT OUT IN TERMS OF
% TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, CRIMINALIZE
% ESSENTIALLY PEOPLE BEING WITHOUT%
A PLACE TO STAY, IT WASN'T -- AT
% LEAST ANOTHER ATTEMPT BY THE
% ASSEMBLY TO EVEN TAKE UP THESE
% ISSUES WHEN WITH THEY -- EVEN
% THOUGH, YOU KNOW, THINGS GET
% STYMIED IN THE SENATE.
% >> SO CAN YOU DESCRIBE SOME OF
% THE EFFORTS THAT CITIES,
% THEMSELVES, OR LOCAL COMMUNITIES
% ARE TAKING TO REALLY TAKE ACTION
% AND ADDRESS HOMELESSNESS AND TO
% REALLY SHELTER PEOPLE AS WE ARE
% APPROACHING WINTER MONTHS AS IT
% IS ALREADY STARTING TO GET COLD,
% FROST OUTSIDE IN THE MORNING
% WHEN I TAKE MY DOG OUT, YOU
% KNOW, IT IS GOING TO GET COLDER.
% WHAT IS IN THE WORKS TO TRY AND
% ALLEVIATE SOME OF THIS PRESSURE?
% >> WELL, FORTUNATELY, THERE'S
% STILL FUNDING FROM THE FEDERAL
% GOVERNMENT GOING TO THE STATE
% AND CITIES AND COUNTIES THAT
% MANY COUNTIES AND CITIES
% THROUGHOUT THE STATE ARE GOING
% TO CONTINUE TO RENT HOTEL ROOMS
% FOR PEOPLE OVER THE WINTER, AND
% SO THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE.
% THE RENT, THE EVICTION
% PREVENTION PROGRAM IN THE AREA
% OF RENT ASSISTANCE, THAT IS
% GOING TO CONTINUE SO THAT PEOPLE
% THAT DO GET BEHIND IN THEIR RENT
% WILL HAVE A WAY TO GET THAT
% RESOLVED.
% CITIES ARE STRUGGLING IN THE
% AREA OF THESE ENCAMPMENTS THAT
% HAVE SPRUNG UP DUE IN LARGE PART
% TO THE PANDEMIC.
% AS YOU KNOW, AS YOU MAY KNOW,
% MADISON, THE CITY OF MADISON,
% HAS BEEN STRUGGLING WITH A
% NUMBER OF ENCAMPMENTS IN PARKS
% THAT THEY ARE NOW TRYING TO, YOU
% KNOW, THEY'VE -- NOT -- AND I'M
% NOT SURE THIS IS A VERY GOOD
% IDEA, BUT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY,
% LIKE, BOUGHT A LARGE PARCEL OF
% LAND ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF TOWN,
% AND THEY ARE BASICALLY BUILDING
% 8 BY 8-FOOT SHELTERS WHERE,
% APPARENTLY, THE HEAT IS NOT
% GOING TO BE ADEQUATE FOR THE
% WINTER, THERE'S NO SANITATION,
% EXCEPT YOU HAVE TO WALK OVER TO
% THE OTHER BUILDING SO YOU CAN
% IMAGINE PEOPLE, IF IT IS 5 BELOW
% AND HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM,
% THEY HAVE TO WALK TO DO THAT.
% I'M NOT SURE THAT IS A GOOD
% SOLUTION, BUT IT JUST SHOWS
% WHERE WE'VE COME.
% I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOW
% TALKING ABOUT CITY SPONSORED
% ENCAMPMENTS, AND THAT'S
% SOMETHING THAT WE CERTAINLY
% PRE-PANDEMIC WOULD CERTAINLY NOT
% HAVE SEEN.
% >> THERE HAS BEEN TALK, YEAH,
% FOR MANY YEARS ABOUT TINY HOMES
% FOR THE HOMELESS, AND IT'S NEVER
% REALLY TAKEN OFF.
% DO YOU THINK THAT THE VISIBILITY
% AND PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO
% ACTUALLY SEE MORE OF THESE
% ENCAMPMENTS, DO YOU THINK THAT%
IS KIND OF FORCING THE ISSUE?
% DOES VISIBILITY CREATE AND
% WARENESS TO CREATE ACTION?
% >> WELL, I'M SURE IT DOES, AND
% THAT AND PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, PARKS
% TEND TO BE NEXT TO
% NEIGHBORHOODS, AND WHAT'S
% PROBABLY CREATING SOME POLITICAL
% POINT OF VIEW IN TERMS OF MAKING
% THE CITY SUCH AS MADISON DO
% SOMETHING IS THAT THE
% NEIGHBORHOOD, OBVIOUSLY, IS NOT
% VERY PLEASED ABOUT THEIR PARK
% BEING TURNED INTO A HOMELESS
% ENCAMPMENT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WITH
% WHAT CITY'S DOING NOW WITH THIS
% DEVELOPMENT OUT ON DAIRY DRIVE,
% THAT'S NOT -- THOSE ARE NOT EVEN
% TINY HOUSES.
% I MEAN, THEY ARE LITERALLY
% 8 FEET BY 8 FEET STRUCTURES WITH
% A BED IN THEM, AND THE HOOTER
% -- HEATERTHAT CAN APPARENTLY BT
% 40-DEGREES HIGHER THAN IT IS
% OUTSIDE, WITH NO TOILET, NO
% SINK, AND THAT'S HOW THEY ARE
% GOING TO -- I MEAN, ONE COULD
% ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT
% IS BETTER THAN A TENT, WELL,
% OKAY, FINE, BETTER THAN A TENT,
% BUT, CERTAINLY, A GOVERNMENT CAN
% DO BETTER THAN TRYING TO HOUSE
% PEOPLE FOR THE WINTER IN 8 BY 8
% SHANTIES.%>> WHERE SHOULD TH
E LEGISLATURE
% PUT ITS EFFORTS, AND IS THIS
% EVENTUALLY GOING TO JUST FALL ON
% CITIES AND COUNTIES TO REALLY
% WORK WITH THEIR OWN BUDGETS IN
% TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOLUTIONS,
% OR IS THERE SOMETHING THAT YOU
% BELIEVE THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD
% BE FOCUSING ON?
% >> YEAH.
% I MEAN, BASICALLY, ONE OF THE
% THINGS THAT WE FOUND WITH ALL OF
% THE FEDERAL MONEY AROUND IS THAT
% CITIES AND COUNTIES AND
% NONPROFIT PROVIDERS, THERE'S
% BEEN MONEY TO MOVE PEOPLE INTO
% HOUSING.
% THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE'VE FOUND
% OUT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH HOUSING.
% SO IN THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET, FOR
% INSTANCE, HE HAD ABOUT
% $50 MILLION IN THERE TO INCREASE
% LOW INCOME HOUSING THROUGHOUT
% THE STATE, AND THAT'S REALLY
% WHERE THE LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO
% BE MORE FORCEFUL AND INVOLVED
% BECAUSE EVEN WHEN WE HAD THESE
% FEDERAL RESOURCES TO GET HOUSING
% FOR PEOPLE, AND, I MEAN, IT WAS
% NOT A QUESTION OF THE MONEY.
% IT WAS NOT A QUESTION THAT WE
% COULDN'T COME UP WITH THE RENT
% AND DEPOSIT.
% WE HAD ALL OF THAT.
% THERE WAS JUST LITERALLY NO LOW
% INCOME HOUSING TO BE HAD, AND SO
% THAT'S THE CHALLENGE FOR THE
% STATE, TO REALLY RESOLVE THIS
% PROBLEM.%>> DOES THIS, AT ALL
, GO BEYOND
% HOUSING?
% IS THIS MORE THAN A HOUSING
% ISSUE?
% IS REALLY THE CRUX OF IT THE
% FACT THAT AFFORDABL HOUSING IS
% JUST NOT AVAILABLE, AND THAT
% CONTINUES TO SQUEEZE PEOPLE'S
% BUDGETS MORE AND MORE AND MORE,
% ESPECIALLY DURING THESE TOUGH
% TIMES?%>> YEAH.
% I MEAN, FOR INSTANCE, THE LOW
% INCOME HOUSING COALITION IN DC
% DOES A STATE-BY-BY STATE
% ANALYSIS, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH IT
% COSTS A FAMILY TO LIVE, AND IN A
% TWO-BEDROOM APARTMENT, AND HOW
% LONG THEY HAVE TO WORK AND HOW
% MANY JOBS THEY HAVE TO WORK IN
% TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO DO THAT.
% I MEAN, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY.
% THERE'S A REASON WHY IF YOU GET
% A MORTGAGE, THE BANK WILL ONLY
% LET YOU SPEND 30% TO 35% OF THE
% INCOME ON HOUSING, RIGHT?
% BECAUSE THEY KNOW ANY MORE THAN
% THAT, YOU ARE AT RISK OF NOT
% BEING ABLE TO MAKE THE PAYMENT.
% WELL, IN WISCONSIN, WE HAVE 50%
% OF THE POPULATION PAYING 50%,
% 60%, 70%, TO 80% FOR THEIR
% HOUSING SO IT SHOULD BE NO
% SURPRISE THEN THAT THE LITTLEST
% THING, MUCH LESS A PANDEMIC, IN
% THESE PEOPLE'S LIVES IS GOING TO
% CAUSE THEM NOT TO BE ABLE TO PAY
% THEIR RENT.%>> EVENTUALLY, T
HESE FEDERAL
% RENTAL ASSISTANCE DOLLARS WILL
% RUN OUT.
% THERE'S DEFINITELY PLENTY LEFT,
% BUT, YOU KNOW, WITHIN A YEAR OR
% SO, THEY WILL RUN OUT.
% WILL WE SEE MORE PEOPLE FALLING
% OFF THAT CLIFF INTO
% HOMELESSNESS?%>> WELL, I THI
NK IT IS -- I
% THINK IT IS UNCLEAR, TO BE
% HONEST WITH YOU.
% IT DEPENDS WHERE WE ARE, TO SOME
% EXTENT, IN REGARDS TO THE
% PANDEMIC AND THE ECONOMY.
% THE PANDEMIC UPENDED EVERYTHING,
% RIGHT?
% I MEAN, FROM JOBS TO HEALTHCARE
% TO HOMELESSNESS, AND ALL OF
% THESE KINDS OF THINGS.
% IT WOULD BE A GOOD THING TO A
% CERTAIN EXTENT IF IN A YEAR AND
% A HALF, LET'S SAY, WHEN THE RENT
% ASSISTANCE FUNDS WIND DOWN, IF
% WE GET BACK TO PRE-PANDEMIC
% LEVELS.
% AGAIN, I WOULD -- I, YOU KNOW,
% WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE
% CITY SPONSORED, "GRAPES OF
% WRATH" PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE
% LIVING, AND THAT, YOU KNOW,
% TAKES YOU BACK TO THE GREAT
% DEPRESSION IN 1929.
% THAT'S WHERE WE ARE NOW.
% SOMETHING WOULD WOULD BE TO GET
% TO PRE-PANDEMIC LEVELS WHERE WE
% DID NOT SEE THAT AT LEAST.
% >> ALL RIGHT.
% WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
% JOE VOLK OF THE WISCONSIN
% COALITION AGAINST HOMELESSNESS,
% THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
% US TODAY.
% >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
% >> FOR MORE FROM "HERE & NOW"
% AND PBS WISCONSIN, VISIT
% PBSWISCONSIN.ORG/NEWS, AND THANK%
YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON
% "NOON WEDNESDAY."