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>> Another controversy in
Wisconsin involves criminal

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justice and Governor Tony
Evers new commutation board.

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While many applaud the
governor bringing back

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commutations after 25 years,
others assail it for early

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release of violent
criminals. The board is now

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reviewing those currently
imprisoned looking to

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shorten their prison
sentences. 12 people came

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before the board earlier
this month, and more will

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appear in September. There
are 800 applicants so far.

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The rules include no
commutation for crimes

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against children, but by
design, people serving long

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sentences are eligible for
commutation, including for

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first degree intentional
homicide. They must have

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served at least 20 years of
a life sentence. Also by

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design, a focus on
juveniles tried as adults

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and sentenced to life or
more than 39 years. Our

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next guest is former
Wisconsin Supreme Court

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Justice and Marquette Law
School professor, where she

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was director of its
Restorative Justice Center.

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Janine Gajewski joins us
now. And thanks very much

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for being here.
>> Oh you're welcome.

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>> What do you think about
commutations being

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reinstated in Wisconsin
after 25 years?

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>> I think it's a very
important move,

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particularly on some of
these cases that, you know,

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people have been
incarcerated for a long

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periods of time. And I can
tell you, as a former

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sentencing judge, you know,
you wanted them to be

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reevaluated as they go
through the years. And, you

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know, I have I have inner
worked in the community in

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Milwaukee with a number of
formerly incarcerated first

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degree murderers who are
doing incredible work and

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were released either on
parole or for other reasons.

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I think it's good to look
at them and make the

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decision based on all the
factors they have to

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consider as to whether they
can shorten their sentence,

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but they can also make them
parole more quickly. They

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can they can adjust. They
can put supervision longer

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so that the the governor
ultimately has a lot of

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discretion on how he
handles each case.

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>> Does reducing the
sentence, though, of a

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person convicted of first
degree intentional homicide,

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for example, make Wisconsin
soft on crime?

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>> No. How's that for a
quick answer? You know,

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I'll give you an example of
of a defendant that I

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worked with. There was a
woman who had been active

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in the community, had done
all sorts of good work, no

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prior record. She had a
very challenging domestic

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situation, and she wound up
murdering her husband. You

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know, the likelihood that
this woman was ever going

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to commit another homicide
or violent act was really

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small, and yet she served.
She stayed in prison until

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the day she died. And, I
mean, that's just an

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example. There's certainly
other, you know, a lot of

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these defendants that
they're looking at are

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people who committed these
crimes when they're 14, 15,

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16 years old. And you look
at them 20 years later and

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they're different people.
And the one thing I like to

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emphasize with people is
these the people that are

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incarcerated are supervised
24 hours a day. So for 20

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years, 24 hours a day,
they've been observed and

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there's a good there's a
good track record of how

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they're doing and whether
or not they continue to

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pose a risk to the
community.

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restorative justice in a
big way. What is that?

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>> Well, it is it's a harm
victim focused process. In

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particular, relevant to
this issue is that victims

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and survivors who are
interested in having a face

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to face meeting with the
perpetrator of their crime.

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And we did a lot of
homicides. We we work with

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them for about a year and a
half, both sides. And then

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we let them have a
conversation. It's an

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incredibly healing process
for those survivors who are

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interested in it. And it's
really an amazing, amazing

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process. And those
questions that victims have

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finally can get answered.
>> But does commuting a

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sentence undermine justice
for victims of crime?

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>> No. And this process
allows the voice of the

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victim there. So the
victims are notified. Now,

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a lot of survivors, 20
years later, are either no

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longer in contact with
corrections or have moved

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on. But there are survivors
of surviving family members

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who are interested, and
they have a voice, and

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that's supposed to be
consideration. In addition,

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I see that on the
commission itself, there

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are there are victim
advocates, people who are

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expert in trauma and expert
in victims issues. There's

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a former police officer, a
former prosecutor. So I, I

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have no doubt that that
will be a factor in looking

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at whether or not to have
someone released, but it

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doesn't mean that the
victim will have the sole

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say over the individual.
>> So the governor's

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executive order on
commutation prioritizes

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youth offenders sentenced
to life in prison. Why are

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juveniles carved out in
this way?

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>> Because because we have
learned through the years,

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and I've learned since I
was on the bench, the whole

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development of the juvenile
brain and how that changes.

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And I guess I should have
known that I was a school

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teacher. But but when you
know how kids think and

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approach things, it's very
different. And if you wait

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20 years and take a look at
them, they are usually

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different people. One of
the individuals that I have

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encountered in the
community was someone I

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sentenced for first degree
murder at age 14. It was it

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was an awful murder. And I
remember sitting as a judge

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thinking, how long do I set
the parole eligibility date

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on this kid? Because he's,
you know, is he salvageable?

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You know, is he always
going to be violent? And I

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gave him a pretty
significant full

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eligibility date. Well,
he's out in the community

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now. He actually contacted
me. He served decades and

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he is doing such incredible
work with the Medical

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College of Wisconsin on
violence, interruption in

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the community. And is, you
know, it was just the most

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wonderful day for me to
meet him and see how

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different he is than the
young kid that sat in front

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of me who killed another
kid.

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>> Janine Geske, thanks
very much. Thanks for your

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thoughts.
>> You're welcome.

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>> For more on this and
other issues facing