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PBS Wisconsin Original
production.

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>> I've been with farmers
several times over just the

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last couple of days, and
they're really concerned.

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>> And all out trade war
between the U.S. and Canada

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has Wisconsin's strongest
trade relationship at risk,

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and poll numbers in the
race between Tom Tiffany

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and David Crowley offer the
first glimpse of the

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finalists for governor.
[MUSIC]

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I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here& Now", the

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State Economic Development
Corporation, on which local

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industries will be impacted
by new tariffs. Marquette

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pollster Charles Franklin
on the race for governor

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and the emergence of fake
polling. How data centers

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are plaguing political
candidates. While voters

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still make up their minds.
[MUSIC]

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And a former justice weighs
in on the newly formed

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commutation board. It's
"Here& Now" for August 28th.

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>> Funding for Here and Now
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> The trade war with
Canada is a gut punch to

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Wisconsin. Given that our
neighbor to the North is

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the state's largest
international trading

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partner. Wisconsin exports
about $7.5 billion worth of

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goods to Canada and imports
about $5.7 billion worth.

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We export things like
machinery, agricultural

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products, including dairy
and forest products like

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paper. Our imports include
wood, pulp, oil, natural

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gas and aluminum. Trade
talks between the countries

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broke down when the U.S.
imposed an additional 50%

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in tariffs on a range of
Canadian goods, and that

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country, in turn, said it
would impose matching

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tariffs starting just after
Labor Day. For how this

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stacks up and what it means,
we turn to CEO of the

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Wisconsin Economic
John Miller, and thanks

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very much for being here.
>> Frederica. Thanks so

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much for having me.
>> How surprising was it

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for you to see Canada play
hardball and impose these

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matching tariffs?
>> Well, obviously, on a

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state level, you know, we
we don't get to decide

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tariff policy, nor do we
get to influence our our

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partners across the country.
But it is concerning

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because businesses are the
businesses that I meet on a

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weekly basis are reporting
to me that they are very,

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very concerned about the
the unpredictability of the

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changing landscape of
tariff policy. And the way

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they say it is just like it
would be unfair and chaotic

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to change the rules in the
middle of a sporting event.

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Businesses depend on a
level playing field and,

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and also the certainty that
the rules that they face

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today will be the same
rules that they face

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tomorrow. So this constant
roller coaster of tariff

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policy makes it almost
impossible for businesses

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to plan and effectively run
their businesses. They need

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to focus on staffing levels
and certify and place

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orders with suppliers. They
also need to spend an

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extraordinary amount of
time locating and training

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qualified distributors
around the world. So any

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surprise in tariff policy
from a trusted supplier or

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a critical foreign
distributor in a country

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hit with a tariff can bring
production to an absolute

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standstill. So replacing a
supplier can take months,

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and losing a foreign market
can be devastating. Our

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businesses just need
clarity on what the rules

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of the road will be.
>> What sector in Wisconsin

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will be hit the hardest in
this?

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>> Our top exports, as you
mentioned, are industrial

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machinery. And in that
category, our exports were

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down about 12% in 2025. So
we we export a lot of

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electrical machinery,
various vehicle parts, sand,

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salt. We also are the large.
Canada is the largest

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recipient of agricultural
goods from Wisconsin. So

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overall, the state of
Wisconsin exported about $4

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billion of ag products in
2025, and 1.4 billion of

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those went to Canada. So
agricultural products are a

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huge factor for our our
local producers.

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>> Specific to that, even
though Canada has a really

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tightly regulated dairy
industry. How important are

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Wisconsin dairy exports to
Canada?

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>> Wisconsin imports,
excuse me, exports millions

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and millions of dollars of
dairy products to to Canada.

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And AG products accounted
for about 20% of

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Wisconsin's exports to
Canada in 2025. So it is a

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big it is a big part of our
export market. And it's

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it's not just dairy
products. We do other

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agricultural products like
pro prepared foods,

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beverages, wood products.
And of course, you know,

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you wouldn't be surprised
that we, we also export a

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little summer sausage to
them too. But, but as far

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as dairy, whey cheese and
milk are the largest

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exports to Canada.
>> What does this trade

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Moore trade war mean for
consumers really drilling

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down to that level?
>> Well, as I think we've

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seen in a lot of at the
grocery store in the last

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18 months or so, we have
heard lots of stories about

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products getting more
expensive. And so, you know,

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Canada is bringing as our
other countries, bringing

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products into the U.S. that
are going to be tariff,

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which means that they're
going to have an impact on

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what consumers pay at the
grocery store. But I think

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the bigger factor here is
that Wisconsin is a

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producer. We produce not
only machinery through our

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factories, but we produce
products, dairy products

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and other things that go
outside of the country. So

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when when those products
are limited in their

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distribution, our workers
have will have to

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potentially suffer not
having a job if they can't,

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if they can't have a
reasonable place to sell

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their their products. So it
goes both ways. It's the

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price we pay for products,
but it's also the ability

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for our workers to earn
money producing those

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products.
>> As to this Canada U.S.

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trade war that we are in
the midst of right now, do

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you suspect it will resolve
soon?

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>> I can certainly hope so,
because we're feeling the

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effects right here at the
WEDC, for example, we host

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trade missions. It's part
of the mission of the WEDC.

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And we typically host a
trade mission with with

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Canada and with Mexico
every year, because there

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are largest trading
partners. And we had last

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year two separate trade
missions scheduled with

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Canada. And we have
Wisconsin companies that we

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bring along to help them
sell their goods in Canada.

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But we learn from our
Canadian counterparts,

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counterparts across the
border that they were

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reluctant to engage and
meet with our producers

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because they were concerned
about the changing nature

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of tariffs. So we actually
had to cancel that trade

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mission. And so we tried
again in November. Again,

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we got the same the same
response. But we at the

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WEDC will remain undeterred.
We decide that we take a

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different, very local
approach. So we meet with

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state by state
relationships in other

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countries. So we really
need to do our best to keep

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those relationships
positive.

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>> All right. We leave it
there. John Miller, thanks

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so much.
>> Thanks for having me. I

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appreciate it.
>> Drum roll please. The

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first statewide poll
conducted after the

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Wisconsin primary election
finds a dead heat among

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registered voters in the
race for governor. Same

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holds true for the partizan
balance of the legislature.

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Marquette Law School poll
Director Charles Franklin

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is here with details and
insights. And thanks for

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being here, Charles.
>> Good to be here.

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>> So let's get right to it.
Democratic candidate David

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Crowley ties Republican Tom
Tiffany among registered

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voters at 44%, each with
12% undecided. But among

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likely voters, Crowley
comes in at 49% to

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Tiffany's 44%, with 7%
undecided. What is this gap

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between the registered and
the likely voters?

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>> It comes down to two
things. One is Democrats

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are a little bit more
likely to say they're sure

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they're going to vote in
November, so they get a

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little bump there. But
Democrats are also more

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loyal to their party's
candidate among likely

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voters than they are among
registered voters. So you

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put those two things
together, and that accounts

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for why it's five point
Steil a close race, but a

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five point lead with likely
while it's tied with

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registered.
>> Where do independent

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voters fall in their choice?
>> First of all, pretty

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undecided. So there's quite
a bit of undecided

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undecided independence.
They lean towards Crowley

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more than to Tiffany, but
with a between a 30 and a

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55% undecided rate. There
are a lot of undecided

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independents out there.
>> Why do you suppose there

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are a lot of undecided
independents?

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>> Familiarity with the
candidates is the number

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one answer. A little over a
third of all registered

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voters say they don't know
enough about David Crowley

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to say whether they have a
favorable or unfavorable

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view. Those with an opinion
are slightly more favorable

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than unfavorable, but less
than half, as many say.

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They don't know enough
about Tiffany to have a

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view, though they're
they're slightly more

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unfavorable than favorable.
So just as with the likely

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voters, you see a slight
edge towards Crowley among

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on favorability, but a lot
of room for voters to learn

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more about Crowley and the
campaigns to compete for,

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whether they learn good
things or bad things.

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>> Now, you also found the
Democrats hold an advantage

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in the number, saying, as
you said, they are likely

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to vote. But more
Republicans say they're

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very enthusiastic to vote.
Is that a hangover from the

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primary race?
>> It looks like it is. If

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you look at Hang Franco
Francesca Hong supporters,

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they are several points
less enthusiastic than are

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either Crowley supporters
or Mandela Barnes

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supporters. So we were in
the field starting the day

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after the primary. I think
it's kind of natural that

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if you supported Francesca
Hong, you might be a little

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less enthusiastic. After
she so narrowly lost the

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primary. But when we look
at how are those people

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voting, 98% of the Hong
voters are saying they're

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voting for Crowley. 99% of
the Crowley voters are

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voting for Crowley. So I
think we're getting amazing

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levels of party unity
within the Democrats, but a

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little bit of an enthusiasm
gap, mostly coming from

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disappointed Hong
supporters.

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legislature, the partizan
makeup, really Hughes to

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the same kinds of results
that you found in the

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governor's race.
>> Very much so. It's it's

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a tie with registered
voters. It's a slight

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00:11:24,618 --> 00:11:27,788
Democratic edge, though, a
smaller one with likely

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voters. This is a statewide
look at if the election

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were held today, would you
vote for the Republican or

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Democrat for legislature?
You really need to dial

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down into the 4 or 5
competitive Senate seats,

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the six or 7 or 8 Assembly
seats with a statewide

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sample. We can't say
anything about those

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individual races.
>> Except we could probably

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predict that it will all be
close.

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>> It sure looks like it's
close. Boy, that's a

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headline for Wisconsin
politics, right?

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>> So I also wanted to get
your take on fake polling

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conducted by an outfit
called Median Strategies.

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Now, they released a poll
in the Wisconsin primary in

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California and Nevada, as
you know, what was your

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00:12:13,333 --> 00:12:15,903
reaction when it was
determined that poll was

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entirely fabricated,
supposedly as a social

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00:12:19,706 --> 00:12:21,942
experiment?
>> It's pure and simple

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fraud. So this is a
challenge to the polling

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profession, but it's a
challenge to the news media

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and all of us that try to
interpret what's going on

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in polling for the public.
I just don't think there's

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a magic wand to make that
kind of fraud go away. When

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anybody with a Twitter
account can publish

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anything they want to claim
they found in a poll.

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>> All right, we leave it
there. Charles Franklin,

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thanks very much for your
poll.

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>> Thank you.
>> Franklin's Marquette

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survey also shows that 78%
of those polled think the

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costs of data centers
outweigh the benefits.

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00:12:59,813 --> 00:13:02,716
Across Wisconsin,
communities are in battle

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over the growth of them,
the size of data centers,

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the jobs, their impact on
energy, and the economy.

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It's all part of the debate
tonight, "Here& Now".

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Reporter Murv Seymour takes
a deep look at the

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importance of data centers
to voters and their

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potential impact on
upcoming election

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strategies.
>> Wisconsin faces a huge

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challenge.
>> We need data in

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everything that we do, and
it's got to be stored and

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secured and accessible and
managed in a reasonable and

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safe way.
>> Parts of the Dairyland.

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>> There are locations
elsewhere in Wisconsin even

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that would be more
appropriate.

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>> Morphing into dandelion.
With the growth of data

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centers across the state,
tech companies drawn to

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Wisconsin for its climate,
water, land, infrastructure

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and available workforce. In
its polling of Wisconsin

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voters about the most
important issues, Marquette

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pollster Charles Franklin
tells me data centers are

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barely on the radar for
Democratic, Republican and

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independent voters, but
becoming a flashpoint in

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the race for the governor
with heated campaign ads.

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>> Data center David
Crowley won't roll back

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data center tax incentives.
>> For data centers

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accountable and make them
pay.

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>> What's so striking is
there's just no pocket

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00:14:20,961 --> 00:14:24,097
within the state of public
opinion. That's really pro

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data centers inflation and
the cost of living is 42%.

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It's been the top issue for
at least four years now.

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Doesn't seem to be going
away at all. But data

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centers, in contrast, only
5% name data centers is

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most important. Running in
an environment where so

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many people are opposed but
don't think it's the most

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important issue, is a
reason for candidates to

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sort of stay a little clear
of that issue or express

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00:14:53,026 --> 00:14:57,264
some opposition, but maybe
be a little vague.

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Opposition or fear of
artificial intelligence

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00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:03,837
turns out to be a pretty
big contributor to

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opposition to data centers.
>> We want Wisconsin to win.

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We want America to win.
>> But there is a dedicated

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constituency in favor of
them and the jobs they

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bring.
>> And we're willing to

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help anybody who wants to
get started in these

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technologies.
>> And Waukesha Community

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Technical College President
Rich Barnhouse tells me

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they proudly cultivate
students and careers in AI

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technologies, which
includes jobs in the

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booming data center arena.
>> When I was meeting with

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a lot of companies who had
20 or fewer employees,

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which is the traditional,
typical Wisconsin business,

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and they weren't using the
words artificial

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intelligence. But when I
asked what they were

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looking for in an employee
in the next few years, they

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were describing artificial
intelligence without

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00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:53,086
knowing they were
describing it. This is just

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flourished. It got so big
we had to go out and do a

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capital campaign, and we're
adding about 12,000ft'!S of

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space.
>> Large and small. A

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growing number of tech
companies are lured to

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Wisconsin, spending
billions to build data

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00:16:07,868 --> 00:16:11,438
centers. 1 billion by meta
in Beaver Dam, 15 billion

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00:16:11,505 --> 00:16:14,007
by Oracle in Port
Washington in over 20

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00:16:14,074 --> 00:16:17,077
billion by Microsoft in
Mount Pleasant, altogether

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00:16:17,144 --> 00:16:21,148
creating nearly 2000 full
time jobs. Rob Marchant

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loves it. He travels the
state, lobbying others to

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00:16:24,117 --> 00:16:27,187
fill the same way. He says
he doesn't want Wisconsin

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to miss out on the growth
of the industry.

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>> We're a state that makes
things. We build things and

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00:16:33,026 --> 00:16:36,129
we solve problems. So we
did that with heavy

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00:16:36,196 --> 00:16:39,099
machinery manufacturing.
We're doing it now with

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advanced manufacturing,
high technology, medical

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devices.
>> Marchant leads me to the

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small town of Winneconne,
population 2500. And some

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00:16:50,344 --> 00:16:53,113
change steps away from the
town's bright blue water

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tower sits Switchgear Power
Systems, a 400 person

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company whose CEO estimates
just over a third of its

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00:17:00,420 --> 00:17:03,290
workers build components
that support data centers

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in and outside of Wisconsin.
>> So they've had a really

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large impact already on our
economy.

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>> But his group's estimate,
a $13 billion impact in

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Wisconsin, supply chain
workers at job sites and in

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education when it comes to
concerns over water and

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00:17:19,072 --> 00:17:22,075
power use. Rob Marchant
says this.

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00:17:22,142 --> 00:17:24,244
>> These new data centers
are paying their own way as

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00:17:24,311 --> 00:17:27,014
far as power infrastructure
goes and their power bills.

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And we have closed loop
cooling, which again uses

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very little to no water.
Depending on the size of

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the data center, they can
fund schools. There's

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00:17:34,821 --> 00:17:37,391
property tax revenue. Does
the community need

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00:17:37,457 --> 00:17:40,260
snowplows? Does it need a
library? Does it want

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00:17:40,327 --> 00:17:43,997
stream restoration? It's
really kind of depends. But

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those benefits are real.
And I hate to I hate to

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00:17:47,668 --> 00:17:51,305
think of a community just
saying no without exploring

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00:17:51,371 --> 00:17:54,107
the possibilities,
understanding the facts,

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00:17:54,174 --> 00:17:56,810
and then making an informed
choice.

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>> A few blocks from the
heart of downtown Port

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00:17:59,413 --> 00:18:02,149
Washington, also called the
port around here, Jeff

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Lueck is part of the
constituency against data

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centers.
>> I won't stop pushing

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00:18:07,955 --> 00:18:10,791
back until they're stopped.
Oh, the bumblebees are out,

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00:18:10,858 --> 00:18:13,060
too.
>> In between watering

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00:18:13,126 --> 00:18:15,963
flowers, Jeff Lueck tells
me he made his informed

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00:18:16,029 --> 00:18:18,765
decision on data centers
months ago, and he's not

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00:18:18,832 --> 00:18:21,034
ashamed to show it.
>> People don't have time

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00:18:21,101 --> 00:18:25,072
to put in on this kind of
stuff, and I get that it's

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00:18:25,138 --> 00:18:27,774
that important, and someone
has to open their mouth.

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00:18:27,841 --> 00:18:31,078
There may be some extra
downtown traffic, there may

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00:18:31,144 --> 00:18:34,648
be things in the grocery
stores or the restaurants,

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00:18:34,715 --> 00:18:39,486
but on weekends you watch
everybody move on out.

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00:18:39,553 --> 00:18:41,555
>> The community's
opposition hasn't been

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00:18:41,622 --> 00:18:45,058
enough to stop the 24 hour
construction of the massive

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00:18:45,125 --> 00:18:47,594
672 acre data center from
being built about a mile

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00:18:47,661 --> 00:18:50,564
away from Jeff's home. For
the tech giant Oracle.

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00:18:50,631 --> 00:18:53,467
>> It don't need to be any
bigger than what it is here

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00:18:53,534 --> 00:18:55,669
in port today.
>> He and others continue

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00:18:55,736 --> 00:18:57,571
to have concerns about the
potential expansion of the

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00:18:57,638 --> 00:19:01,441
data center, its impact on
energy, water and the

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00:19:01,508 --> 00:19:03,810
environment.
>> The trail was used a ton.

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00:19:03,877 --> 00:19:08,549
I used that interurban
trail myself at times, and

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00:19:08,615 --> 00:19:10,751
there's nowhere near the
amount of people using it

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00:19:10,817 --> 00:19:14,555
that there were using it a
couple of times with just

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00:19:14,621 --> 00:19:16,790
the interurban trail.
They've interrupted us with

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00:19:16,857 --> 00:19:19,459
it.
>> Can you hear that? Does

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00:19:19,526 --> 00:19:22,162
that mean they support you?
>> That's our support. And

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00:19:22,229 --> 00:19:24,364
I still get the beeps just
standing in my yard.

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00:19:24,431 --> 00:19:26,633
>> In communities all
across Wisconsin, voters

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00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:28,669
and politicians have some
tough decisions to make

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00:19:28,735 --> 00:19:31,205
about the future of data
centers in the state.

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00:19:31,271 --> 00:19:34,508
>> Good government follows
a process that takes in

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00:19:34,575 --> 00:19:37,477
information from all sides,
evaluates it, and then

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00:19:37,544 --> 00:19:39,746
makes a decision.
>> We can do this community

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00:19:39,813 --> 00:19:43,083
by community, industry by
industry, or we can take a

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00:19:43,150 --> 00:19:45,385
look at things collectively,
holistically and say, how

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00:19:45,452 --> 00:19:48,388
do we want to do this in
our state.

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00:19:48,455 --> 00:19:50,891
>> Doing what makes sense
for Wisconsin and the

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00:19:50,958 --> 00:19:54,094
people that live here
reporting from Port

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00:19:54,161 --> 00:19:56,563
Washington, Madison and
Pewaukee. I'm Murv Seymour

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00:19:56,630 --> 00:20:00,300
for here now.
>> Another controversy in

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00:20:02,236 --> 00:20:04,671
Wisconsin involves criminal
justice and Governor Tony

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00:20:04,738 --> 00:20:07,908
Evers new commutation board.
While many applaud the

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00:20:07,975 --> 00:20:11,411
governor bringing back
commutations after 25 years,

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00:20:11,478 --> 00:20:14,815
others assail it for early
release of violent

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00:20:14,882 --> 00:20:17,851
criminals. The board is now
reviewing those currently

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00:20:17,918 --> 00:20:20,454
imprisoned looking to
shorten their prison

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00:20:20,521 --> 00:20:23,190
sentences. 12 people came
before the board earlier

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00:20:23,257 --> 00:20:25,893
this month, and more will
appear in September. There

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00:20:25,959 --> 00:20:30,430
are 800 applicants so far.
The rules include no

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00:20:30,497 --> 00:20:33,133
commutation for crimes
against children, but by

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00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,337
design, people serving long
sentences are eligible for

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00:20:37,404 --> 00:20:40,707
commutation, including for
first degree intentional

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00:20:40,774 --> 00:20:43,143
homicide. They must have
served at least 20 years of

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00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:47,114
a life sentence. Also by
design, a focus on

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00:20:47,181 --> 00:20:49,917
juveniles tried as adults
and sentenced to life or

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00:20:49,983 --> 00:20:54,288
more than 39 years. Our
next guest is former

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00:20:54,354 --> 00:20:56,456
Wisconsin Supreme Court
Justice and Marquette Law

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00:20:56,523 --> 00:20:59,026
School professor, where she
was director of its

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00:20:59,092 --> 00:21:01,695
Restorative Justice Center.
Janine Gajewski joins us

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00:21:01,762 --> 00:21:03,997
now. And thanks very much
for being here.

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00:21:04,064 --> 00:21:06,400
>> Oh you're welcome.
>> What do you think about

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00:21:06,466 --> 00:21:08,669
commutations being
reinstated in Wisconsin

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00:21:08,735 --> 00:21:11,738
after 25 years?
>> I think it's a very

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00:21:11,805 --> 00:21:14,708
important move,
particularly on some of

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00:21:14,775 --> 00:21:17,744
these cases that, you know,
people have been

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00:21:17,811 --> 00:21:20,714
incarcerated for a long
periods of time. And I can

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00:21:20,781 --> 00:21:23,150
tell you, as a former
sentencing judge, you know,

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00:21:23,217 --> 00:21:26,353
you wanted them to be
reevaluated as they go

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00:21:26,420 --> 00:21:30,290
through the years. And, you
know, I have I have inner

402
00:21:30,357 --> 00:21:34,328
worked in the community in
Milwaukee with a number of

403
00:21:34,394 --> 00:21:37,197
formerly incarcerated first
degree murderers who are

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00:21:37,264 --> 00:21:40,400
doing incredible work and
were released either on

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00:21:40,467 --> 00:21:43,270
parole or for other reasons.
I think it's good to look

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00:21:43,337 --> 00:21:45,772
at them and make the
decision based on all the

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00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:48,809
factors they have to
consider as to whether they

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00:21:48,876 --> 00:21:51,979
can shorten their sentence,
but they can also make them

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00:21:52,045 --> 00:21:55,148
parole more quickly. They
can they can adjust. They

410
00:21:55,215 --> 00:21:58,652
can put supervision longer
so that the the governor

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00:21:58,719 --> 00:22:00,687
ultimately has a lot of
discretion on how he

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00:22:00,754 --> 00:22:04,191
handles each case.
>> Does reducing the

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00:22:04,258 --> 00:22:06,360
sentence, though, of a
person convicted of first

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00:22:06,426 --> 00:22:09,897
degree intentional homicide,
for example, make Wisconsin

415
00:22:09,963 --> 00:22:13,300
soft on crime?
>> No. How's that for a

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00:22:14,668 --> 00:22:17,037
quick answer? You know,
I'll give you an example of

417
00:22:17,104 --> 00:22:20,941
of a defendant that I
worked with. There was a

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00:22:21,008 --> 00:22:23,944
woman who had been active
in the community, had done

419
00:22:24,011 --> 00:22:28,415
all sorts of good work, no
prior record. She had a

420
00:22:28,482 --> 00:22:32,686
very challenging domestic
situation, and she wound up

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00:22:32,753 --> 00:22:35,556
murdering her husband. You
know, the likelihood that

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00:22:35,622 --> 00:22:38,392
this woman was ever going
to commit another homicide

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00:22:38,458 --> 00:22:41,962
or violent act was really
small, and yet she served.

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00:22:42,029 --> 00:22:45,999
She stayed in prison until
the day she died. And, I

425
00:22:46,066 --> 00:22:48,035
mean, that's just an
example. There's certainly

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00:22:48,101 --> 00:22:50,737
other, you know, a lot of
these defendants that

427
00:22:50,804 --> 00:22:53,207
they're looking at are
people who committed these

428
00:22:53,273 --> 00:22:57,411
crimes when they're 14, 15,
16 years old. And you look

429
00:22:57,477 --> 00:22:59,613
at them 20 years later and
they're different people.

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00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,250
And the one thing I like to
emphasize with people is

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00:23:03,317 --> 00:23:06,753
these the people that are
incarcerated are supervised

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00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:11,024
24 hours a day. So for 20
years, 24 hours a day,

433
00:23:11,091 --> 00:23:13,060
they've been observed and
there's a good there's a

434
00:23:13,126 --> 00:23:15,462
good track record of how
they're doing and whether

435
00:23:15,529 --> 00:23:17,764
or not they continue to
pose a risk to the

436
00:23:17,831 --> 00:23:21,168
community.
restorative justice in a

437
00:23:21,235 --> 00:23:25,472
big way. What is that?
>> Well, it is it's a harm

438
00:23:27,708 --> 00:23:31,545
victim focused process. In
particular, relevant to

439
00:23:31,612 --> 00:23:34,882
this issue is that victims
and survivors who are

440
00:23:34,948 --> 00:23:37,784
interested in having a face
to face meeting with the

441
00:23:37,851 --> 00:23:40,354
perpetrator of their crime.
And we did a lot of

442
00:23:40,420 --> 00:23:44,825
homicides. We we work with
them for about a year and a

443
00:23:44,892 --> 00:23:48,161
half, both sides. And then
we let them have a

444
00:23:48,228 --> 00:23:51,131
conversation. It's an
incredibly healing process

445
00:23:51,198 --> 00:23:54,568
for those survivors who are
interested in it. And it's

446
00:23:54,635 --> 00:23:57,604
really an amazing, amazing
process. And those

447
00:23:57,671 --> 00:24:01,141
questions that victims have
finally can get answered.

448
00:24:01,208 --> 00:24:03,610
>> But does commuting a
sentence undermine justice

449
00:24:03,677 --> 00:24:07,814
for victims of crime?
>> No. And this process

450
00:24:08,315 --> 00:24:10,851
allows the voice of the
victim there. So the

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00:24:10,918 --> 00:24:13,720
victims are notified. Now,
a lot of survivors, 20

452
00:24:13,787 --> 00:24:17,824
years later, are either no
longer in contact with

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00:24:17,891 --> 00:24:20,427
corrections or have moved
on. But there are survivors

454
00:24:20,494 --> 00:24:22,596
of surviving family members
who are interested, and

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00:24:22,663 --> 00:24:24,965
they have a voice, and
that's supposed to be

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00:24:25,032 --> 00:24:27,367
consideration. In addition,
I see that on the

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00:24:27,434 --> 00:24:30,003
commission itself, there
are there are victim

458
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:33,240
advocates, people who are
expert in trauma and expert

459
00:24:33,307 --> 00:24:36,443
in victims issues. There's
a former police officer, a

460
00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:40,647
former prosecutor. So I, I
have no doubt that that

461
00:24:40,714 --> 00:24:43,984
will be a factor in looking
at whether or not to have

462
00:24:44,051 --> 00:24:45,853
someone released, but it
doesn't mean that the

463
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:49,957
victim will have the sole
say over the individual.

464
00:24:50,023 --> 00:24:51,892
>> So the governor's
executive order on

465
00:24:51,959 --> 00:24:55,295
commutation prioritizes
youth offenders sentenced

466
00:24:55,362 --> 00:24:58,131
to life in prison. Why are
juveniles carved out in

467
00:24:58,198 --> 00:25:01,635
this way?
>> Because because we have

468
00:25:01,702 --> 00:25:04,104
learned through the years,
and I've learned since I

469
00:25:04,171 --> 00:25:06,406
was on the bench, the whole
development of the juvenile

470
00:25:06,473 --> 00:25:09,243
brain and how that changes.
And I guess I should have

471
00:25:09,309 --> 00:25:12,412
known that I was a school
teacher. But but when you

472
00:25:12,479 --> 00:25:16,450
know how kids think and
approach things, it's very

473
00:25:16,517 --> 00:25:19,219
different. And if you wait
20 years and take a look at

474
00:25:19,286 --> 00:25:21,488
them, they are usually
different people. One of

475
00:25:21,555 --> 00:25:24,291
the individuals that I have
encountered in the

476
00:25:24,358 --> 00:25:26,560
community was someone I
sentenced for first degree

477
00:25:26,627 --> 00:25:31,198
murder at age 14. It was it
was an awful murder. And I

478
00:25:31,265 --> 00:25:34,501
remember sitting as a judge
thinking, how long do I set

479
00:25:34,568 --> 00:25:38,038
the parole eligibility date
on this kid? Because he's,

480
00:25:38,105 --> 00:25:40,807
you know, is he salvageable?
You know, is he always

481
00:25:40,874 --> 00:25:43,610
going to be violent? And I
gave him a pretty

482
00:25:43,677 --> 00:25:45,546
significant full
eligibility date. Well,

483
00:25:45,612 --> 00:25:48,015
he's out in the community
now. He actually contacted

484
00:25:48,081 --> 00:25:52,319
me. He served decades and
he is doing such incredible

485
00:25:52,386 --> 00:25:54,922
work with the Medical
College of Wisconsin on

486
00:25:54,988 --> 00:25:57,824
violence, interruption in
the community. And is, you

487
00:25:57,891 --> 00:26:00,827
know, it was just the most
wonderful day for me to

488
00:26:00,894 --> 00:26:03,931
meet him and see how
different he is than the

489
00:26:03,997 --> 00:26:06,066
young kid that sat in front
of me who killed another

490
00:26:06,133 --> 00:26:09,036
kid.
>> Janine Geske, thanks

491
00:26:09,102 --> 00:26:10,604
very much. Thanks for your
thoughts.

492
00:26:10,671 --> 00:26:13,874
>> You're welcome.
>> For more on this and

493
00:26:13,941 --> 00:26:16,276
other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our

494
00:26:16,343 --> 00:26:19,379
website at PBS
wisconsin.org and then

495
00:26:19,446 --> 00:26:22,182
click on the news tab.
That's our program for

496
00:26:22,249 --> 00:26:24,484
tonight. I'm Frederica
Freyberg. Have a good

497
00:26:24,551 --> 00:26:27,888
weekend.
>> Funding for "Here& Now"

498
00:26:44,304 --> 00:26:46,673
is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and

499
00:26:46,740 --> 00:26:49,209
friends of PBS Wisconsin.