1 00:00:01,368 --> 00:00:05,038 can matter. >> In other closely watched 2 00:00:05,105 --> 00:00:07,608 races. Michael Alfonso won the Republican primary in 3 00:00:07,674 --> 00:00:10,043 the seventh Congressional District in northern 4 00:00:10,110 --> 00:00:12,880 Wisconsin. He's the Trump endorsed son in law of 5 00:00:12,946 --> 00:00:15,148 Transportation Secretary Shawn Duffy. The seventh 6 00:00:15,215 --> 00:00:17,985 has a strong Republican lean, and if elected, the 7 00:00:18,051 --> 00:00:20,454 26 year old Alfonso will become the youngest member 8 00:00:20,521 --> 00:00:23,423 of Congress. He faces former state legislator 9 00:00:23,490 --> 00:00:25,759 Fred Clark, who won the Democratic primary in the 10 00:00:25,826 --> 00:00:27,728 third Congressional District in western 11 00:00:27,794 --> 00:00:30,030 Wisconsin. Rebecca Cooke won the Democratic primary 12 00:00:30,097 --> 00:00:32,933 with more than 60% of the vote, setting up a rematch 13 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,636 with Republican Congressman Derrick Van Orden. Plenty 14 00:00:35,702 --> 00:00:38,105 to talk about with our political panelists, 15 00:00:38,172 --> 00:00:40,307 Republican Bill McCoshen and Democrat Scot Ross. 16 00:00:40,374 --> 00:00:43,610 Thanks to both of you for being here. 17 00:00:43,677 --> 00:00:46,280 >> First, we have to talk about Crowley's win on 18 00:00:46,346 --> 00:00:48,482 Tuesday. Scott, how improbable was it to see a 19 00:00:48,549 --> 00:00:51,018 candidate drop out and then come back in less than a 20 00:00:51,084 --> 00:00:53,720 month and win the nomination? 21 00:00:53,787 --> 00:00:56,256 haven't seen before. But, you know, David Crowley has 22 00:00:56,323 --> 00:00:58,458 a long record of of delivering for the people 23 00:00:58,525 --> 00:01:00,527 of Wisconsin as the county executive of the largest 24 00:01:00,594 --> 00:01:02,429 county. He's cut property taxes. He's invested in 25 00:01:02,496 --> 00:01:04,331 small businesses, he's invested in community 26 00:01:04,398 --> 00:01:06,667 health, and he's invested in the things that really 27 00:01:06,733 --> 00:01:09,770 drive the economy and move things forward. So he's a 28 00:01:09,837 --> 00:01:12,439 formidable candidate against a very flawed 29 00:01:12,506 --> 00:01:14,374 candidate in Tom Tiffany, who has a ten year record 30 00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:17,778 in the state legislature of making it harder for 31 00:01:17,845 --> 00:01:21,081 Wisconsinites. And he decided to go after to to 32 00:01:21,148 --> 00:01:23,383 Congress on the next thing. And he spent five years 33 00:01:23,450 --> 00:01:25,319 making it harder for everybody else. 34 00:01:25,385 --> 00:01:27,588 >> So, Bill, Tom, Tiffany, Republicans seemed very 35 00:01:27,654 --> 00:01:29,823 eager to face Francesca Hong. Will it be a shift 36 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:32,559 for them to pivot to Crowley? 37 00:01:33,327 --> 00:01:35,295 there's any question about that. But to your original 38 00:01:35,362 --> 00:01:37,130 question, I think it's unprecedented what happened 39 00:01:37,197 --> 00:01:39,266 on Tuesday night. I mean, we've never seen a 40 00:01:39,333 --> 00:01:42,236 candidate get out of the race and then get back into 41 00:01:42,302 --> 00:01:44,304 the race, get the sitting governor's endorsement. The 42 00:01:44,371 --> 00:01:46,139 sitting governor travels around the state with him 43 00:01:46,206 --> 00:01:48,308 and literally brings him across the finish line. 44 00:01:48,375 --> 00:01:50,477 It's for your poker players and poker enthusiasts that 45 00:01:50,544 --> 00:01:53,046 are watching this show. This is like a royal flush. 46 00:01:53,113 --> 00:01:55,148 For that to happen, every star had to line up 47 00:01:55,215 --> 00:01:57,251 perfectly. And I give Governor Evers credit. I 48 00:01:57,317 --> 00:02:00,187 mean, he leaned in to David Crowley and and did 49 00:02:00,254 --> 00:02:03,257 everything he could. He put his legacy on the line. And 50 00:02:03,323 --> 00:02:07,127 it worked. That, coupled with $4 million of ads at 51 00:02:07,194 --> 00:02:10,397 the end, that trade unions were very much involved in, 52 00:02:10,464 --> 00:02:12,933 they get credit for that as well. And there was some 53 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,369 finally, some contrast in the race. David Crowley ran 54 00:02:15,435 --> 00:02:18,272 some contrast, and it was on the biggest flaw that 55 00:02:18,338 --> 00:02:20,240 Francesca Hong made the entire campaign, which was 56 00:02:20,307 --> 00:02:23,610 the issue of Thanksgiving. She said she had old tweets 57 00:02:23,677 --> 00:02:25,879 that said cancels Thanksgiving. She went on 58 00:02:25,946 --> 00:02:29,816 both Fox News and CNN and and had some unfortunate 59 00:02:29,883 --> 00:02:31,952 comments that lasted a whole week nationally. It 60 00:02:32,019 --> 00:02:34,621 was a bad it was the worst unforced error I've ever 61 00:02:34,688 --> 00:02:37,424 seen in statewide politics that played into this as 62 00:02:37,491 --> 00:02:40,894 well. But it was it was an unbelievable comeback for 63 00:02:40,961 --> 00:02:42,863 David Crowley. >> Would you ever thought 64 00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:44,965 Thanksgiving was going to be the deciding issue? 65 00:02:45,032 --> 00:02:47,701 >> Well, I always joke that like, you know, Donald 66 00:02:47,768 --> 00:02:50,804 Trump hates Thanksgiving has to spend more time with 67 00:02:50,871 --> 00:02:53,740 Donald RFK, Jr. And, and Eric, I don't know if he 68 00:02:53,807 --> 00:02:56,009 spends any time with the second one from the second 69 00:02:56,076 --> 00:02:58,812 marriage or the, you know, anchor baby from the third. 70 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:00,881 But that's, you know, I mean, again, this race now 71 00:03:00,948 --> 00:03:03,851 goes goes on to Donald Trump. This is about Donald 72 00:03:03,917 --> 00:03:05,786 Trump and Tom, Tiffany, Tom, Tiffany and Donald Trump 73 00:03:05,853 --> 00:03:08,121 lie about everything. He has a long record of 74 00:03:08,188 --> 00:03:10,791 failing Wisconsin, whether it's cutting $300 billion 75 00:03:10,858 --> 00:03:14,394 from rural health care, whether it's a nationwide 76 00:03:14,461 --> 00:03:16,730 abortion ban, which he supports. When he was in 77 00:03:16,797 --> 00:03:20,067 the state legislature, he cut public education by the 78 00:03:20,133 --> 00:03:23,070 largest in history. This case now will be about 79 00:03:23,136 --> 00:03:27,074 Donald Trump, who's who's you know, rating is in the 80 00:03:27,140 --> 00:03:29,510 toilet. And the fact that Tom Tiffany votes with him 81 00:03:29,576 --> 00:03:33,580 not 80% of the time, not 90% of the time, 100% of 82 00:03:33,647 --> 00:03:36,783 the time. My God, if, you know, we usually see 83 00:03:36,850 --> 00:03:39,586 candidates out there on busses, if Donald Trump 84 00:03:39,653 --> 00:03:42,022 says so, Tom, Tiffany is going to be riding around 85 00:03:42,089 --> 00:03:44,591 in a, you know, in one of those catering carts. 86 00:03:44,658 --> 00:03:46,860 >> Well, Donald, Tom Tiffany was asked, would 87 00:03:46,927 --> 00:03:49,329 you like to see Donald Trump in Wisconsin? And he 88 00:03:49,396 --> 00:03:52,733 hedged. He said, oh, he's very busy. 89 00:03:52,799 --> 00:03:54,968 very clear about this. No one in history has gotten 90 00:03:55,035 --> 00:03:57,738 more votes in the state of Wisconsin than Donald Trump. 91 00:03:57,804 --> 00:03:59,940 If Donald Trump can turn out that 1.7 million voters 92 00:04:00,007 --> 00:04:02,676 for Tom, Tiffany, Tom Tiffany will easily be the 93 00:04:02,743 --> 00:04:05,245 next governor of the state of Wisconsin. So, yes, 94 00:04:05,312 --> 00:04:08,015 there is a role for Donald Trump in this election. And 95 00:04:08,081 --> 00:04:11,718 whether that's town hall meetings like he did for 96 00:04:11,785 --> 00:04:15,189 Michael Alfonso, or it's mail or it's phone banks or 97 00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:17,524 whatever it may be, and maybe it's public 98 00:04:17,591 --> 00:04:19,793 appearances. We'll see. But there's absolutely a role 99 00:04:19,860 --> 00:04:22,229 for Donald Trump. >> The rap on Tom Tiffany a 100 00:04:22,296 --> 00:04:25,132 year ago, when he was first being floated as a 101 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:27,367 candidate for governor, was can you raise any money? 102 00:04:27,434 --> 00:04:29,403 Well, he's had billionaires that have transferred money 103 00:04:29,469 --> 00:04:32,139 through the party to him. He's funded a lot of ads. 104 00:04:32,206 --> 00:04:34,208 He's already on the air right now. Will he have 105 00:04:34,274 --> 00:04:38,078 enough or do you think maybe the billionaire 106 00:04:38,145 --> 00:04:40,180 they don't view this as as winnable a race with it? 107 00:04:40,247 --> 00:04:43,050 Crowley versus Hong. >> Oh, I think he's going 108 00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:45,219 to raise more money than any candidate in history. 109 00:04:45,285 --> 00:04:47,054 And that includes the self-funders that we've had 110 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,356 in the last couple of cycles on the Republican 111 00:04:49,423 --> 00:04:52,025 side. I don't think money's going to be an issue for 112 00:04:52,092 --> 00:04:54,194 Tom Tiffany. I think they're going to do even 113 00:04:54,261 --> 00:04:57,130 more on the low dollar side that's out there. It's 114 00:04:57,197 --> 00:04:59,099 called low hanging fruit in politics. They can easily 115 00:04:59,166 --> 00:05:01,101 go get that. But Tom Tiffany will not have a 116 00:05:01,168 --> 00:05:03,270 resource issue. >> Well, Democrats have 117 00:05:03,337 --> 00:05:05,072 enough money. Ben Wikler is not there at the Democratic 118 00:05:05,138 --> 00:05:08,442 Party to bring in all that money. 119 00:05:08,509 --> 00:05:11,278 >> Yeah, I think he'll be. I think he'll be helping 120 00:05:11,345 --> 00:05:13,380 out, you know? Yeah. The Democratic strategy is to 121 00:05:13,447 --> 00:05:16,250 raise a lot of money, right? I mean, they've done a very 122 00:05:16,316 --> 00:05:18,552 good job using things like the loopholes created by 123 00:05:18,619 --> 00:05:20,621 Robin Vos. the grift. 124 00:05:22,523 --> 00:05:24,992 instance of being hoisted on your own petard. And 125 00:05:25,058 --> 00:05:27,094 they have $5 million left to spend, of course, 126 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:28,962 because the Republicans, what they wanted to 127 00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:31,265 accomplish was that Fran Hong not be the next 128 00:05:31,331 --> 00:05:33,333 governor of the great state of Wisconsin and with their 129 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,569 $5 billion of spending, have achieved their goal. 130 00:05:35,636 --> 00:05:38,105 So I'm sure they're popping champagne bottles over that 131 00:05:38,172 --> 00:05:41,108 one. It's you know, this is going to be a wide open 132 00:05:41,175 --> 00:05:43,210 race. Clearly, as you pointed out, Tom Tiffany 133 00:05:43,277 --> 00:05:47,181 has raised $10 million in of his money in 2026 from 134 00:05:47,247 --> 00:05:50,450 three billionaires. You know, the two lines and and 135 00:05:50,517 --> 00:05:52,553 Diane Hendricks. And on the day he got his last 136 00:05:52,619 --> 00:05:55,389 transfer, he promised on the radio he was not going 137 00:05:55,455 --> 00:05:57,090 to raise taxes on billionaires. So that was 138 00:05:57,157 --> 00:05:59,259 that was a nice timing for that. 139 00:05:59,326 --> 00:06:01,428 >> This is a loophole that Democrats have used 140 00:06:01,495 --> 00:06:03,931 successfully under Ben Wikler for ten straight 141 00:06:03,997 --> 00:06:06,667 years. Republicans are finally figured it out. 142 00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:08,702 Yeah, we're leveling the playing field. 143 00:06:08,769 --> 00:06:11,772 >> The irony of this is it was less than a year ago 144 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,141 that Tom Tiffany was calling this the 145 00:06:14,208 --> 00:06:16,210 Democrats abused, even though he was part of the 146 00:06:16,276 --> 00:06:18,946 process of creating it. But now he's taking advantage. 147 00:06:19,012 --> 00:06:21,114 >> Of it. Well, why wouldn't you? It's a legal 148 00:06:21,181 --> 00:06:23,283 mechanism for raising money in the state of Wisconsin, 149 00:06:23,350 --> 00:06:25,919 and Republicans have failed to use it in the past. 150 00:06:25,986 --> 00:06:28,055 Tiffany is not going to make that mistake. 151 00:06:28,121 --> 00:06:31,091 >> He can spend all the money he wants, but he 152 00:06:31,158 --> 00:06:33,160 can't erase his record. He did scrub his website after 153 00:06:33,227 --> 00:06:35,929 right before he got in saying, like, you know, all 154 00:06:35,996 --> 00:06:38,298 the really radically again, yesterday he was 155 00:06:38,365 --> 00:06:40,868 photographed with his lit in his back pocket, which 156 00:06:40,934 --> 00:06:42,903 says Maga extremist Tom Tiffany. So, you know, 157 00:06:42,970 --> 00:06:45,138 we'll have to see how he explains that one away. 158 00:06:45,205 --> 00:06:47,274 >> Gubernatorial races are all about the future. What 159 00:06:47,341 --> 00:06:51,078 are you going to do for me? What's in it for me as a 160 00:06:51,144 --> 00:06:53,847 voter if I vote for you? Scot Ross or Brill McCoshen, 161 00:06:53,914 --> 00:06:56,149 or in this case, Tom Tiffany or David Crowley, 162 00:06:56,216 --> 00:06:58,085 Tom Tiffany is already out with positive ads talking 163 00:06:58,151 --> 00:07:01,088 about his agenda for the future of the state of 164 00:07:01,154 --> 00:07:03,056 Wisconsin. And I think it's very, very positive. You're 165 00:07:03,123 --> 00:07:05,092 also going to see sharp contrast between him and 166 00:07:05,158 --> 00:07:07,961 David Crowley, which you did not see until the very 167 00:07:08,028 --> 00:07:10,063 end of the Democratic primary. And I think that 168 00:07:10,130 --> 00:07:12,266 was a mistake for all the other candidates who ran 169 00:07:12,332 --> 00:07:14,001 against Francesca Hong. David Crowley figured it 170 00:07:14,067 --> 00:07:16,937 out at the right time, and it worked. 171 00:07:17,004 --> 00:07:18,572 >> Switching to congressional races, we've 172 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:21,074 got a rematch in the third with incumbent Republican 173 00:07:21,141 --> 00:07:23,844 Derrick Van Orden against a Rebecca Cooke Scott, does 174 00:07:23,911 --> 00:07:26,013 this race follow the national environment or the 175 00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:28,715 top of the ticket, or does it stand out on its own, 176 00:07:28,782 --> 00:07:31,018 particularly for Democrats third? 177 00:07:31,084 --> 00:07:33,153 >> Well, I would say that because Tom Tiffany, you 178 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:35,189 know, supports the $2 billion slush fund for 179 00:07:35,255 --> 00:07:38,125 terrorist insurrectionists, that he is the biggest 180 00:07:38,192 --> 00:07:41,061 January 6th terrorist insurrectionist in 181 00:07:41,128 --> 00:07:43,664 have a January 6th terrorist insurrectionist 182 00:07:43,730 --> 00:07:46,066 as the candidate and current congressperson from 183 00:07:46,133 --> 00:07:48,068 the third Congressional District, Derrick Van Orton. 184 00:07:48,135 --> 00:07:50,871 He is unhinged. You know, people criticize me 185 00:07:50,938 --> 00:07:53,674 sometimes about my my speaking online, but this 186 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:57,044 guy is totally unhinged. And Rebecca Cooke brings a 187 00:07:57,110 --> 00:07:59,613 real experience of what people in the state, what 188 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,181 people in the Third Congressional District have 189 00:08:01,248 --> 00:08:03,550 to deal with affordability, gas prices, you know, 190 00:08:03,617 --> 00:08:06,019 working two jobs. And I think that translates much 191 00:08:06,086 --> 00:08:08,555 better for what this what the public's going to want 192 00:08:08,622 --> 00:08:11,058 in this election, especially given the record 193 00:08:11,124 --> 00:08:14,261 that Trump has in the state, whether it's with Tom 194 00:08:14,328 --> 00:08:16,363 Tiffany or Derrick Van Orden of really hurting 195 00:08:16,430 --> 00:08:18,332 people in Wisconsin. >> Even in midterms, which 196 00:08:18,398 --> 00:08:20,767 are historically bad for the party in power. And in 197 00:08:20,834 --> 00:08:24,705 this case, it's Republicans. 87% of incumbent 198 00:08:24,771 --> 00:08:27,107 congresspeople get reelected. So the advantage 199 00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:29,743 is going to be to Derrick Van Orden. Rebecca Cooke 200 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:33,380 has already lost that seat twice. I think she's going 201 00:08:33,447 --> 00:08:36,116 to lose the rematch. It's going to be a hat trick of 202 00:08:36,183 --> 00:08:38,986 losses for her, but it will be a competitive race right 203 00:08:39,052 --> 00:08:41,622 down to the end. And that's one where we may see Donald 204 00:08:41,688 --> 00:08:44,892 Trump in La Crosse or Eau Claire. 205 00:08:44,958 --> 00:08:46,960 need to adjust his behavior? Already on Twitter this 206 00:08:47,027 --> 00:08:48,795 week he was saying Democrats stole the primary 207 00:08:48,862 --> 00:08:51,765 election or is he just be who he is? 208 00:08:51,832 --> 00:08:54,735 >> I think he is who he is. I wouldn't have said that. 209 00:08:54,801 --> 00:08:56,803 I don't think that's accurate. I don't think we 210 00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:58,939 should care how your primary played out. At the 211 00:08:59,006 --> 00:09:01,775 end of the day, Francesca Hong didn't care. She had 212 00:09:01,842 --> 00:09:04,711 the ability to ask for a recount. She chose not to 213 00:09:04,778 --> 00:09:06,847 spoke volumes about her character, I think. So we 214 00:09:06,914 --> 00:09:09,049 should focus on the future. That's what voters want us 215 00:09:09,116 --> 00:09:11,985 to talk about, is what's what are you going to do to 216 00:09:12,052 --> 00:09:14,721 help us balance our checkbook every month here? 217 00:09:14,788 --> 00:09:17,024 >> So in the seventh congressional, Michael 218 00:09:17,090 --> 00:09:19,826 Alfonso used his father in law's money and the Trump 219 00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:22,262 endorsement to cruise to the nomination. Ordinarily, 220 00:09:22,329 --> 00:09:25,065 the seventh isn't in play. Could it be with someone of 221 00:09:25,132 --> 00:09:27,734 his particular reputation and this being an open seat. 222 00:09:27,801 --> 00:09:31,071 >> If ever the source was there to be sampled by by 223 00:09:31,138 --> 00:09:33,540 the by the Democratic voters, it might be there 224 00:09:33,607 --> 00:09:35,642 because this is a guy who has absolutely no 225 00:09:35,709 --> 00:09:37,544 experience. He's a carpetbagger. You know, he 226 00:09:37,611 --> 00:09:39,947 was he got there by, you know, essentially financed 227 00:09:40,013 --> 00:09:42,950 by Shawn Duffy's corruption. So, yes, I think that if if 228 00:09:43,016 --> 00:09:45,085 Fred Clark can get the resources to be able to 229 00:09:45,152 --> 00:09:47,921 articulate that, then I say it's entirely possible 230 00:09:47,988 --> 00:09:50,290 whether or not he'll be able to get it, it's going 231 00:09:50,357 --> 00:09:54,061 to be tough because because, again, Republican failure 232 00:09:54,127 --> 00:09:56,697 Democrats are all over the place in terms of being 233 00:09:56,763 --> 00:09:59,299 able to spend in races they might not otherwise have 234 00:09:59,366 --> 00:10:01,635 been able to get. And very clearly, Democrats will 235 00:10:01,702 --> 00:10:03,537 have the control of the Congress come after this 236 00:10:03,604 --> 00:10:05,172 election. >> This is Tom Tiffany's 237 00:10:05,239 --> 00:10:08,575 home place, and there's a lot of legacy. 238 00:10:08,642 --> 00:10:10,711 >> Before that. Yeah. >> There's legacy. Listen, 239 00:10:10,777 --> 00:10:12,779 Michael Alfonso and his family moved to land O 240 00:10:12,846 --> 00:10:15,516 lakes when he was three years old. I know this 241 00:10:15,582 --> 00:10:17,851 because I coached him in hockey when he was ten 242 00:10:17,918 --> 00:10:20,787 years old for a team out of Managua. He then they moved 243 00:10:20,854 --> 00:10:23,490 to Wausau when he was in middle school, which is 244 00:10:23,557 --> 00:10:25,626 where he met Shawn Duffy's daughter. He's a 245 00:10:25,692 --> 00:10:28,996 wisconsinite through and of having someone Jung on 246 00:10:29,062 --> 00:10:32,266 our side, finally running for a major office, and I 247 00:10:32,332 --> 00:10:35,602 think he's going to do well. He surprised me by how much 248 00:10:35,669 --> 00:10:38,472 he won a highly competitive primary by. 249 00:10:38,539 --> 00:10:40,474 >> That was an impressive win considering the amount 250 00:10:40,541 --> 00:10:42,876 of money that was spent in that district. All right, 251 00:10:42,943 --> 00:10:45,078 that is all the time we have. Bill McCoshen Scot 252 00:10:45,145 --> 00:10:47,714 Ross. Thanks again. >> Thanks. Nice to be here. 253 00:10:47,781 --> 00:10:52,352 >> Issues continue to crop up in Milwaukee's late