1
00:00:01,401 --> 00:00:04,705
hazardous, meaning the
outside air is unhealthy

2
00:00:04,771 --> 00:00:09,576
for anyone, as electricity
use tips up between staying

3
00:00:09,643 --> 00:00:12,212
indoors with air
conditioning due to smoky

4
00:00:12,279 --> 00:00:15,816
air and heat. The issue of
energy and where to get it

5
00:00:15,883 --> 00:00:19,086
is a hot topic here and
around the country, and

6
00:00:19,152 --> 00:00:22,389
this week it was announced
that a massive nuclear

7
00:00:22,456 --> 00:00:26,693
fusion research center is
coming to Wisconsin. Realta

8
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,230
Fusion, a company spun out
from research done at

9
00:00:30,297 --> 00:00:33,000
UW-Madison, will build a
200 zero zero zero square

10
00:00:33,066 --> 00:00:35,669
foot research and
development facility at the

11
00:00:35,736 --> 00:00:39,473
long vacant Oscar Mayer
plant on the north side of

12
00:00:39,540 --> 00:00:42,109
Madison. The move means the
company will be

13
00:00:42,176 --> 00:00:44,311
headquartered there, and
the workforce is expected

14
00:00:44,378 --> 00:00:48,549
to increase from 50
employees to 600, along

15
00:00:48,615 --> 00:00:52,252
with $60 million from
private investors. The

16
00:00:52,319 --> 00:00:56,123
state of Wisconsin gave
nearly $40 million in tax

17
00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:58,492
exemptions, with the City
of Madison kicking in

18
00:00:58,559 --> 00:01:02,563
nearly 3 million in
financing. Realtor CEO

19
00:01:03,564 --> 00:01:05,666
Kieran Furlong joins us now
to explain the project. And

20
00:01:05,732 --> 00:01:08,035
thanks for being here.
>> Thank you very much for

21
00:01:08,101 --> 00:01:10,904
having me.
dogs to futuristic

22
00:01:11,672 --> 00:01:14,741
generation of energy, what
is the promise of nuclear

23
00:01:14,808 --> 00:01:18,111
fusion energy in this
increasingly kind of

24
00:01:18,178 --> 00:01:21,315
electricity hungry world?
>> Yeah. I mean, I think

25
00:01:21,381 --> 00:01:23,917
fusion really is the future
for humanity, right? It's

26
00:01:23,984 --> 00:01:27,187
the source of energy that
we need if we're going to

27
00:01:27,254 --> 00:01:31,158
provide enough food, water,
materials, mobility for 10

28
00:01:31,225 --> 00:01:34,428
billion people, we need
fusion. We're not going to

29
00:01:34,494 --> 00:01:37,364
dig or drill our way out of
this. And, you know, we can

30
00:01:37,431 --> 00:01:40,334
build all the renewables
plants we we can manage,

31
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,970
but we're still going to
need more energy. And

32
00:01:43,036 --> 00:01:45,105
fusion holds that promise.
>> Well, give us kind of

33
00:01:45,172 --> 00:01:48,008
the nuclear fusion for
dummies description.

34
00:01:48,075 --> 00:01:50,844
>> Sure. Yeah. So fusion is
another form of nuclear

35
00:01:50,911 --> 00:01:53,380
energy as it involves
reactions with the nuclei

36
00:01:53,447 --> 00:01:56,517
of atoms. But it's the
opposite process from what

37
00:01:56,583 --> 00:01:58,418
most people will think of
when they think of

38
00:01:58,485 --> 00:02:00,554
conventional nuclear
fission. That's where you

39
00:02:00,621 --> 00:02:04,258
take a large, heavy atom,
like a uranium atom, and

40
00:02:04,324 --> 00:02:07,828
split it. With fusion, we
take very small light atoms

41
00:02:07,895 --> 00:02:10,130
and fuze them together,
basically smooshing them

42
00:02:10,197 --> 00:02:12,766
together, and we take
different flavors of

43
00:02:12,833 --> 00:02:15,302
hydrogen, push those
together, and form helium,

44
00:02:15,369 --> 00:02:17,104
the same stuff that you
would find in party

45
00:02:17,171 --> 00:02:20,040
balloons. But when we do
that, you get a small

46
00:02:20,107 --> 00:02:22,142
amount of the energy. Our
small amount of the mass

47
00:02:22,209 --> 00:02:24,545
gets converted into a
massive amount of energy.

48
00:02:24,611 --> 00:02:26,780
>> So I read that
researchers have been

49
00:02:26,847 --> 00:02:30,417
trying since the 1930s to
generate electricity

50
00:02:30,484 --> 00:02:34,054
through nuclear fusion,
described as the same

51
00:02:34,121 --> 00:02:38,058
process that powers the sun.
Why is it so hard?

52
00:02:38,125 --> 00:02:40,127
>> Correct. So it was first
postulated back in the

53
00:02:40,194 --> 00:02:44,198
early 20s by researchers
looking at what powers the

54
00:02:44,264 --> 00:02:46,700
sun. And so fusion is what
powers the sun and all the

55
00:02:46,767 --> 00:02:49,570
other stars in the universe.
So in many ways, it's the

56
00:02:49,636 --> 00:02:51,805
it's the energy that we
have in the universe. The

57
00:02:51,872 --> 00:02:55,042
sun has the advantage of
massive, massive scale. So

58
00:02:55,108 --> 00:02:58,512
it's just so large and its
density gets us to the

59
00:02:58,579 --> 00:03:01,481
conditions that you can
have fusion occur. So

60
00:03:01,548 --> 00:03:03,617
infusion, we have something
that's known as the, you

61
00:03:03,684 --> 00:03:06,186
know, you basically need
something called the triple

62
00:03:06,253 --> 00:03:09,723
product. We basically need
to get those elements. We

63
00:03:09,790 --> 00:03:13,060
want to fuze together hot
enough, dense enough for

64
00:03:13,126 --> 00:03:15,829
long enough. We don't have
the advantage of the sun's

65
00:03:15,896 --> 00:03:18,131
density. So we need to get
them very, very hot, hotter

66
00:03:18,198 --> 00:03:20,968
than the center of the sun.
And that itself is quite

67
00:03:21,034 --> 00:03:23,203
challenging.
>> Do you feel as though

68
00:03:23,270 --> 00:03:26,073
your scientists have
cracked the code to

69
00:03:26,139 --> 00:03:28,108
generating electricity
through fusion?

70
00:03:28,175 --> 00:03:30,811
>> We're on the way there.
And in fact, just recently

71
00:03:30,878 --> 00:03:33,514
we announced an experiment
we did where we

72
00:03:33,580 --> 00:03:35,949
demonstrated we could pull
electricity directly from

73
00:03:36,016 --> 00:03:38,852
the plasma that we're
operating in the WHAM

74
00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:42,456
machine at the University
of Wisconsin-Madison. So

75
00:03:42,523 --> 00:03:44,958
plasma is the fourth state
of matter. So you think,

76
00:03:45,025 --> 00:03:48,428
you know, ice, water, steam.
And the next step up would

77
00:03:48,495 --> 00:03:52,165
be plasma. So we need to
get a plasma. We can hold

78
00:03:52,232 --> 00:03:56,336
that in a magnetic cage
essentially, because we

79
00:03:56,403 --> 00:03:59,473
temperatures much hotter
steel vessel, for example.

80
00:03:59,540 --> 00:04:01,708
But we're making great
progress with it. There's

81
00:04:01,775 --> 00:04:04,211
still some work to do, and
that's why we'll be doing

82
00:04:04,278 --> 00:04:06,947
our R&D in this new
facility.

83
00:04:07,581 --> 00:04:10,584
it with all this money and
the retrofit involved?

84
00:04:10,651 --> 00:04:13,253
>> So I think the first
thing is we're not trying

85
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,156
to defy any laws of physics.
So I've got great I'm a

86
00:04:16,223 --> 00:04:18,225
great believer in the
ingenuity of humans. We

87
00:04:18,292 --> 00:04:20,460
will find a way forward.
There's an old joke about

88
00:04:20,527 --> 00:04:23,297
fusion that folks will say,
oh, it's 20 years in the

89
00:04:23,363 --> 00:04:25,599
future and always will be.
That kind of ignores the

90
00:04:25,666 --> 00:04:28,335
effort that's needed to get
there. And now we're making

91
00:04:28,402 --> 00:04:30,237
the effort so there's more
investment coming into

92
00:04:30,304 --> 00:04:32,372
fusion. We've got more
people working on the

93
00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:36,243
problem. I'm 100% convinced
humanity will solve fusion.

94
00:04:36,310 --> 00:04:38,412
The question is when.
>> What do you think about

95
00:04:38,478 --> 00:04:41,148
when?
>> So we're targeting the

96
00:04:41,215 --> 00:04:44,017
2030s. So you know, early
to mid 2030s is when we

97
00:04:44,084 --> 00:04:47,120
intend to have a first
commercial operation based

98
00:04:47,187 --> 00:04:50,457
on our technology.
>> Does this project put

99
00:04:50,524 --> 00:04:53,560
Wisconsin on the map for
fusion in a major way? And

100
00:04:53,627 --> 00:04:56,697
why Wisconsin?
>> Yeah, I think so. In

101
00:04:56,763 --> 00:04:58,866
terms of putting it on the
map. And that's really been

102
00:04:58,932 --> 00:05:02,202
kind of one of our
intentions from the start.

103
00:05:02,269 --> 00:05:04,805
So the University of
Wisconsin-Madison is

104
00:05:04,872 --> 00:05:06,807
already one of the top
institutions for research

105
00:05:06,874 --> 00:05:10,210
in this field of plasma
physics and fusion. The

106
00:05:10,277 --> 00:05:13,914
state is a, you know, very
well placed from a

107
00:05:13,981 --> 00:05:16,350
manufacturing standpoint,
the ability to, you know,

108
00:05:16,416 --> 00:05:19,686
do precision and advanced
manufacturing fusion

109
00:05:19,753 --> 00:05:22,189
industry is essentially
bringing those two things

110
00:05:22,256 --> 00:05:24,725
together. We've got the
scientific research to show,

111
00:05:24,791 --> 00:05:27,294
well, here's the kind of
machine we need to build,

112
00:05:27,361 --> 00:05:29,796
and then we need to know
how to build those and

113
00:05:29,863 --> 00:05:31,999
demonstrate that we can do
that cost effectively. I

114
00:05:32,065 --> 00:05:34,501
think Wisconsin is very
well placed to do that.

115
00:05:34,568 --> 00:05:37,304
That was one of the factors
in deciding to set up our

116
00:05:37,371 --> 00:05:41,241
R&D facility and corporate
headquarters here. And I

117
00:05:41,308 --> 00:05:45,345
think Wisconsin absolutely
will be one of the main

118
00:05:45,412 --> 00:05:50,317
hubs for fusion in the 21st
hubs for fusion in the 21st