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situation? Will they be
more moderate, more kind of

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aligned with national
Democrats? And so I think

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we're seeing that fight
kind of play out or tension

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play out in a lot of these
primaries.

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projection shows Wisconsin
will lose more than $2

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billion in sales tax
revenue because of an

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exemption written into the
2325 state budget for data

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centers, a break designed
to promote economic

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development. Three years
later, the state is

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swimming in new data
centers with consumer

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concerns about water and
energy usage. But in a win

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for consumers, the
Wisconsin Public Service

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Commission just ruled that
existing electricity

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customers should not pay a
single cent to subsidize

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the service of data centers.
The ruling is also a major

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win for the Citizens
Utility Board, which fought

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on behalf of customers.
Executive director of Cub

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Tom Content joins us now
with more. And thanks very

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much for being here.
>> Oh, great to be with you.

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>> So you've said that this
case was the most

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significant one the cub has
ever been involved in. So

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when the PSC ruled, what
was your reaction?

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>> I was I was frankly
surprised. I, I've had a

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good feeling that we were
going to get some of what

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we asked for in terms of
significant changes to what

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the proposal was. But we
got the vast majority of

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our changes or changes that
addressed our concerns.

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They really the
commissioner really sent a

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message, even though they
can't control every cent,

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they sent a message that
every dollar needs to be

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accounted for and every. As
they, as one of the

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commissioners put it, every
every cent should be paid

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for by the tech companies.
>> So how does the

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proliferation of data
centers in Wisconsin engage

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consumers in a way that
other rate cases may not

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have?
>> It's it's I think I

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think it's a combination of
fear of concerns about

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rising energy costs,
because we've already come

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into this period with
rising energy costs that

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have risen at rates higher
than inflation, paired with

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the the local community
reaction. And and basically

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the Wisconsin reaction, as
noted in the Marquette

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polls to data centers. And,
you know, the the Marquette

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poll that just 'came out
showed a lot more clarity

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about where Wisconsinites
stand about data centers

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than it showed about who's
running for governor. And

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they they by a 2 to 1
margin, people said that

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the cost of data centers
outweigh the benefits. And

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I think I think layered
into that is, is fear of AI

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and, and what it's what
what the the impacts of AI

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are on the economy and
society down the road. I

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think that plays into it.
>> Too, because I

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understand that thousands
of people kind of came to

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Cub and said, yes, we we
want the PSC to rule in

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this way.
>> Thousands of people went

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to the PSC hearings or PSC
hearings or submitted

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comments online. And so
those could have been

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people in Milwaukee, people
around the state, we

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energies customers and
others. I mean, frankly,

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the tech companies and the
utility were saying the

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right things all along that
they were going to meet

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their demand or that they
were going to play their

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own way. But for us, the
devil was always in the

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details, and we found some
loopholes and just areas of

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concern where we thought
the risks that customers

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were still going to be on
the hook were too, too high

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with what was what was what
was the proposal was.

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>> So does does the ruling
mean that power company

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customers will not be on
the hook at all for the

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giant energy needs of these
data centers?

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>> They went as far as they
could. They ran into a

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couple areas where they
couldn't go as far as they

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wanted, because certain
things were out of the

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state's control. And what I
mean by that is if if

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people may have seen that
at the white House, the

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tech companies were at the
white House pledging to pay

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their own way and signed a
ratepayer protection pledge.

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Now, that was more of a,
you know, an optics

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document, a a rhetoric
document. And it was

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non-binding, but it
actually committed the tech

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companies to pay their way
for all the network

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upgrades, which which to us
sounds like the power lines,

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right. And the big power
lines. And the fact is, our

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power line company,
American transmission

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billion of infrastructure
to feed these data centers,

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is actually regulated out
in Washington, D.C. So the

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state Public Service
Commission couldn't change

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that. And so as a result,
the the the commissioner

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sent a message that they
could only go so far, but

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they called on HTC and the
We Energy's parent company

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to make changes that would
protect customers from,

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frankly, billions of extra
costs tied to these

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projects.
>> What else stood out for

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you from the PSC on this
case?

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>> I think what stood out
is, is that the the. The

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fact that the data centers
will be on the hook for

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00:05:02,970 --> 00:05:05,973
100% of the new power
plants. There was one

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00:05:06,039 --> 00:05:09,610
scenario where other
customers, small businesses,

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00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:12,379
homeowners, renters would
be on and other businesses

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00:05:12,446 --> 00:05:15,649
would be on the hook for up
to 25% of the cost of new

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power plants. And that's
not a small number. We

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energies has already gotten
approval for over almost 2

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billion in projects and has
another 6 billion in the

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queue. So a quarter of that,
a quarter of that would

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have been a couple billion
dollars on the hook that

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customers would have been
responsible for. So. So

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that was a big the biggest
change and one that we

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really appreciated.
>> All right. Well, we

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appreciate you joining us
appreciate you joining us