1
00:00:01,869 --> 00:00:05,138
>> The following program is
a PBS Wisconsin Original

2
00:00:05,205 --> 00:00:07,541
production.
>> Colder temperatures

3
00:00:07,608 --> 00:00:12,179
settled in across the state
as projections see a rise

4
00:00:12,246 --> 00:00:16,517
in the cost of heat and. A
state treasurer on Lake

5
00:00:16,583 --> 00:00:20,020
Superior is feared to be
overrun if turned into a

6
00:00:20,087 --> 00:00:22,322
national park.
[MUSIC]

7
00:00:22,623 --> 00:00:26,293
I'm Frederica Freyberg
tonight on "Here& Now" the

8
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,429
Citizens Utility Board on
what will help and hurt

9
00:00:29,496 --> 00:00:33,367
heating costs this winter.
How Wausau is leading in

10
00:00:33,433 --> 00:00:36,837
lead pipe replacement and
covering the tab. A La

11
00:00:36,904 --> 00:00:40,674
Crosse program finds
success reducing

12
00:00:40,741 --> 00:00:43,277
homelessness and whether to
preserve the Apostle

13
00:00:43,343 --> 00:00:46,613
Islands by opening it to
more tourism. It's "Here&

14
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,816
Now" for September 25th.
[MUSIC]

15
00:00:51,151 --> 00:00:53,153
>> Funding for Here and now
is provided by the Focus

16
00:00:53,220 --> 00:00:56,023
Fund for journalism.
[MUSIC]

17
00:00:58,425 --> 00:01:01,762
Wisconsin.
>> As temperatures cool

18
00:01:06,567 --> 00:01:10,137
down with the advent of
winter not far behind, it

19
00:01:10,204 --> 00:01:13,807
will soon be time to turn
on the furnace. And like

20
00:01:13,874 --> 00:01:17,044
gasoline and diesel prices,
the cost to heat your home

21
00:01:17,110 --> 00:01:21,315
is expected to go up by an
average of about 8.7% for

22
00:01:21,381 --> 00:01:24,885
the season, according to
national forecasts. Tom

23
00:01:24,952 --> 00:01:27,788
Content, of the Citizens
Utility Board has been

24
00:01:27,855 --> 00:01:31,391
tracking the trend. And
thanks very much for being

25
00:01:31,458 --> 00:01:34,027
here.
>> So is this just like

26
00:01:34,828 --> 00:01:36,897
added to the list of the
things that are costing

27
00:01:36,964 --> 00:01:40,067
more right now?
>> There is so much. I mean,

28
00:01:40,133 --> 00:01:43,370
we we're seeing it
everywhere. And

29
00:01:43,971 --> 00:01:46,840
unfortunately, we we had a
high heating cost winter

30
00:01:46,907 --> 00:01:51,178
last year, in part because
of how expensive natural

31
00:01:51,245 --> 00:01:54,181
gas was, but mainly because
of how frigid the winter

32
00:01:54,248 --> 00:01:57,618
was. We had those stretched
double stretches of subzero

33
00:01:57,684 --> 00:02:00,454
temperatures that hit us
hard. And so people were

34
00:02:00,521 --> 00:02:02,823
firing up their furnaces.
And then the next month,

35
00:02:02,890 --> 00:02:04,925
they were looking at their
utility bills going, what

36
00:02:04,992 --> 00:02:08,161
the heck happened? Because
my prices are off the

37
00:02:08,228 --> 00:02:10,797
charts. And we're concerned
that that could that could

38
00:02:10,864 --> 00:02:13,433
be a problem again this
winter.

39
00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:16,036
>> Speaking of temperatures,
though, this El Nino

40
00:02:16,103 --> 00:02:18,906
weather pattern could help.
Could be warmer. It's

41
00:02:18,972 --> 00:02:23,877
always kind of not known.
>> No, it's not known. And

42
00:02:23,944 --> 00:02:27,147
we're waiting for the
official for an official

43
00:02:27,214 --> 00:02:30,050
forecast from the Energy
Information Administration

44
00:02:30,117 --> 00:02:32,886
won't come out til that
next month. And that one

45
00:02:32,953 --> 00:02:35,689
will actually incorporate
forecasts as the forecast

46
00:02:35,756 --> 00:02:39,393
of temperatures as well.
And the utilities

47
00:02:39,459 --> 00:02:42,196
themselves often put out
forecasts. And we're still

48
00:02:42,262 --> 00:02:45,799
waiting on that. But the
information we have so far

49
00:02:45,866 --> 00:02:48,535
shows, especially for
people in rural Wisconsin,

50
00:02:48,602 --> 00:02:52,372
that use propane or in
areas of the state that

51
00:02:52,439 --> 00:02:54,208
still use heating oil, that
this could be a tough

52
00:02:54,274 --> 00:02:56,710
winter.
>> Because the heating oil

53
00:02:56,777 --> 00:03:02,015
price projections put it up
more than 30%. But is that

54
00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:05,719
a small number of people
who use oil in Wisconsin?

55
00:03:05,786 --> 00:03:08,722
>> Yes it is. It's a very
small amount. I just looked

56
00:03:08,789 --> 00:03:11,892
and it's about 35,000
households across the state

57
00:03:11,959 --> 00:03:15,863
that use it. And this would
be a good year to get rid

58
00:03:15,929 --> 00:03:19,399
of heating oil because the
prices are off the charts,

59
00:03:19,466 --> 00:03:21,935
because heating oil is
really directly affected by

60
00:03:22,002 --> 00:03:25,939
crude oil prices. Propane
is also affected, but not

61
00:03:26,006 --> 00:03:28,775
quite as much by crude oil
prices. But it is affected.

62
00:03:28,842 --> 00:03:32,346
>> So propane and electric,
I understand, represent

63
00:03:32,412 --> 00:03:37,317
about 500,000 households
together. And those price

64
00:03:38,519 --> 00:03:43,090
projections are at like
about 9%. Where do people

65
00:03:45,025 --> 00:03:47,895
mostly use propane and
electric? Because the what,

66
00:03:47,961 --> 00:03:51,198
like 65% of people use
natural gas.

67
00:03:52,299 --> 00:03:54,334
>> Correct. Two thirds of
Wisconsin's use natural gas

68
00:03:54,401 --> 00:03:57,504
and propane is is the farm.
The rural areas of

69
00:03:57,571 --> 00:03:59,072
Wisconsin are often on
propane. Because of the

70
00:03:59,139 --> 00:04:04,411
natural gas system hasn't
connected them. And so so a

71
00:04:04,478 --> 00:04:06,847
lot of rural Wisconsinites
should really reach out to

72
00:04:06,914 --> 00:04:09,483
their propane dealers and
maybe get multiple quotes

73
00:04:09,550 --> 00:04:12,186
this this year just to see
what what deal you can get

74
00:04:12,252 --> 00:04:16,156
and maybe try to try to
lock that in because the

75
00:04:16,223 --> 00:04:20,260
prices are are concerning.
But, but there are

76
00:04:20,327 --> 00:04:23,430
opportunities to convert to
natural gas in some areas

77
00:04:23,497 --> 00:04:26,700
now. And so that that's,
that's an option to think

78
00:04:26,767 --> 00:04:29,169
about.
>> So you also say that

79
00:04:29,236 --> 00:04:32,439
there are other ways that
people can potentially save,

80
00:04:32,506 --> 00:04:35,409
including through the the
program focus on energy.

81
00:04:35,475 --> 00:04:39,646
And that is like legitimate.
>> Yeah, that's a statewide

82
00:04:39,713 --> 00:04:42,583
program that everybody pays
into who's a utility

83
00:04:42,649 --> 00:04:45,686
customer. Wisconsin pays
into focus every year. And

84
00:04:45,752 --> 00:04:47,955
so what we want to see is
more people take advantage

85
00:04:48,021 --> 00:04:50,791
of focus and get the
benefits. So this is the

86
00:04:50,858 --> 00:04:54,027
program that used to
provide LED light bulbs to

87
00:04:54,094 --> 00:04:56,163
everybody. And now LED
prices have come down so

88
00:04:56,230 --> 00:04:59,800
much that focuses focus,
provides incentives in

89
00:04:59,867 --> 00:05:01,869
other ways. They actually
have incentives. If you

90
00:05:01,935 --> 00:05:04,705
want to add solar to your
house, they have incentives

91
00:05:04,771 --> 00:05:07,708
on a highly efficient
furnace. They have

92
00:05:07,774 --> 00:05:11,378
incentives on insulation
and air sealing. And the

93
00:05:11,445 --> 00:05:13,747
biggest thing that and
newest thing that they have

94
00:05:13,814 --> 00:05:16,817
is they have funding
through the Inflation

95
00:05:16,884 --> 00:05:20,087
Reduction Act that Congress
passed a few years ago. For

96
00:05:20,153 --> 00:05:23,991
a whole variety of programs
that help all customers.

97
00:05:24,057 --> 00:05:27,461
But actually there's extra
incentives for low income

98
00:05:27,528 --> 00:05:30,397
customers that are built
into that. And so people

99
00:05:30,464 --> 00:05:33,600
should really take a look
at the Focus on energy

100
00:05:33,667 --> 00:05:37,237
website w its focus on
energy.com. And there's a

101
00:05:37,304 --> 00:05:39,806
really handy get started
button on there that you

102
00:05:39,873 --> 00:05:43,076
can then enter in your
information and even your

103
00:05:43,143 --> 00:05:45,112
income, and it'll let you
know the kinds of things

104
00:05:45,179 --> 00:05:47,414
that you're eligible for.
So that's a really

105
00:05:47,481 --> 00:05:50,150
important thing to know.
>> The other thing that you

106
00:05:50,217 --> 00:05:54,821
are watching is a price
hike on the horizon from

107
00:05:54,888 --> 00:05:58,559
some utility companies
coming up the start of the

108
00:05:58,625 --> 00:06:03,096
new year. What's that?
>> So both we Energies and

109
00:06:03,664 --> 00:06:06,433
Wisconsin Public Service.
So the eastern a lot of the

110
00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:10,070
eastern half of Wisconsin
are in for rate hikes right

111
00:06:10,137 --> 00:06:12,005
in front of the Public
Service Commission right

112
00:06:12,072 --> 00:06:14,775
now. Our group, the
consumer advocate, is

113
00:06:14,842 --> 00:06:17,311
involved in those cases to
try to bring down the size

114
00:06:17,377 --> 00:06:22,516
of those increases. And and
so we've been vocal on that,

115
00:06:23,784 --> 00:06:28,021
trying to target high
profits and other issues.

116
00:06:28,088 --> 00:06:30,557
There's a public hearing
coming up this Tuesday on

117
00:06:30,624 --> 00:06:33,327
Zoom and in green Bay that
people could participate in

118
00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:36,663
and have a say before those
cases are decided.

119
00:06:36,730 --> 00:06:39,399
>> All right. Tom Content,
thanks very much. Thanks

120
00:06:39,466 --> 00:06:41,335
for your work.
>> All right. Thank you so

121
00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:43,971
much.
>> From heat to water.

122
00:06:45,405 --> 00:06:48,842
About 1 in 10 municipal
water lines are served by

123
00:06:48,909 --> 00:06:52,579
lead pipes in Wisconsin. Or
according to Wisconsin

124
00:06:52,646 --> 00:06:56,316
Watch data, more than
145,000 of them lead in

125
00:06:56,383 --> 00:06:59,353
drinking water poses
serious health risks,

126
00:06:59,419 --> 00:07:02,422
especially to children and
pregnant women, as no level

127
00:07:02,489 --> 00:07:05,759
of lead exposure is
considered safe. While

128
00:07:05,826 --> 00:07:08,996
cities and municipalities
across Wisconsin are

129
00:07:09,062 --> 00:07:12,633
working to remove lead
service lines ahead of a

130
00:07:12,699 --> 00:07:15,869
2037 federal deadline, one
city in the midst of the

131
00:07:15,936 --> 00:07:19,907
work stands out. The City
of Wausau is on track to

132
00:07:19,973 --> 00:07:23,777
replace its remaining some
3000 lead lines by the end

133
00:07:23,844 --> 00:07:28,048
of 2028. That's after
already replacing about

134
00:07:28,115 --> 00:07:31,251
3500, the City Council
Finance Committee just

135
00:07:31,318 --> 00:07:35,656
voted to pay 100% of the
cost for residents.

136
00:07:35,722 --> 00:07:38,091
Committee chair Alderman
Michael Martins joins us.

137
00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:40,794
And thanks very much for
being here.

138
00:07:40,861 --> 00:07:43,230
>> Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you for inviting me.

139
00:07:43,297 --> 00:07:46,166
>> So what is the cost, on
average, for residents to

140
00:07:46,233 --> 00:07:49,469
replace their lead service
lines?

141
00:07:49,870 --> 00:07:54,241
>> Well, it depends on, you
know, on on the situation

142
00:07:54,308 --> 00:07:58,011
what the composition of
their soil is. We've been

143
00:07:58,078 --> 00:08:00,814
averaging about, you know,
with, with the, with the

144
00:08:00,881 --> 00:08:05,252
current process, about
$6,700 per lead service

145
00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:07,287
line.
>> And so that's a that's a

146
00:08:07,354 --> 00:08:10,657
lot of money for any
individual homeowner. Why

147
00:08:10,724 --> 00:08:12,993
did the Finance Committee
decide to go ahead and

148
00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:16,063
cover that cost?
>> Well, when we looked at

149
00:08:16,129 --> 00:08:19,967
the numbers and we saw, you
know, we started lead

150
00:08:20,033 --> 00:08:24,438
service line replacements
in 2024, and we've been

151
00:08:24,505 --> 00:08:27,541
very aggressive in moving
forward with this, with

152
00:08:27,608 --> 00:08:31,278
this program. And since
we've just passed the half

153
00:08:31,345 --> 00:08:35,916
way point, we felt that we
were we could get as many

154
00:08:36,717 --> 00:08:41,288
of these lines done as
quickly as we could instead

155
00:08:41,355 --> 00:08:46,293
of spreading everything out
until that 2037 deadline,

156
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:51,298
we would, you know, even
though the upfront cost is

157
00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:54,535
more, you know, for us for
the next two years, we

158
00:08:54,601 --> 00:08:58,438
would we could finish the
program by 2028, saving

159
00:08:58,505 --> 00:09:01,441
potentially up to $37
million. And, you know,

160
00:09:01,508 --> 00:09:04,144
before the, you know, if we
were to if we were to slow

161
00:09:04,211 --> 00:09:06,747
our roll.
>> So what is the total

162
00:09:06,813 --> 00:09:09,716
cost of the project
expected to be when you're

163
00:09:09,783 --> 00:09:12,786
finished?
>> I think all in in all

164
00:09:14,154 --> 00:09:19,059
done. It's going to be well
over $57 million. It's and

165
00:09:20,961 --> 00:09:24,097
and a significant portion
of it. We've been able to,

166
00:09:24,164 --> 00:09:27,768
you know, recover through
federal and state grants.

167
00:09:27,835 --> 00:09:31,672
Principal forgiveness loans.
What you know, what we've

168
00:09:31,738 --> 00:09:36,310
come up with, you know, is,
is as the as the program

169
00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:40,314
continues, our funding gap,
you know, increases from

170
00:09:40,380 --> 00:09:42,816
year to year. And that's
where the city ends up

171
00:09:42,883 --> 00:09:45,018
paying more on these last
these last three years of

172
00:09:45,085 --> 00:09:47,321
the of the replacement
program.

173
00:09:47,387 --> 00:09:50,791
>> And isn't it also true
that some of these

174
00:09:50,858 --> 00:09:55,996
government grants and loans
could be drying up as well?

175
00:09:56,597 --> 00:09:59,733
>> You know, they're it's
it's part of it is they're

176
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,269
drying up. And other part
of it is other communities

177
00:10:02,336 --> 00:10:06,206
are coming online with
their replacement programs.

178
00:10:06,273 --> 00:10:10,110
So it's the pot is, you
know, not only dwindling,

179
00:10:10,177 --> 00:10:13,747
but there's more people
looking for a share of the

180
00:10:13,814 --> 00:10:16,250
of the loans of the
principal forgiveness. You

181
00:10:16,316 --> 00:10:19,553
know, we've been fortunate
by getting an early start.

182
00:10:19,620 --> 00:10:22,756
We've been able to capture
a lion's share of that.

183
00:10:22,823 --> 00:10:25,592
>> So going forward into
the next couple of years,

184
00:10:25,659 --> 00:10:29,763
as, as you aggressively
push to remove these lead

185
00:10:29,830 --> 00:10:33,634
lines. Can the city coffers
handle that?

186
00:10:34,701 --> 00:10:37,905
>> I that remains to be
seen. I think, you know,

187
00:10:37,971 --> 00:10:42,543
for for at least 2027, I
think we are we should be

188
00:10:42,609 --> 00:10:46,213
able to, you know, to, to
manage it. What the what

189
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,583
the funding gap will be in
2028. You know, we're still

190
00:10:49,650 --> 00:10:53,987
going to have to analyze
our debt ratios are at a

191
00:10:54,555 --> 00:10:59,359
point where, you know, we
can it's it's it, you know,

192
00:11:00,227 --> 00:11:02,696
our debt ratios are at the
point where we can, you

193
00:11:02,763 --> 00:11:06,300
know, we can still manage
that. And I think, you know,

194
00:11:06,366 --> 00:11:10,337
you know, we do want to
reduce our long term debt,

195
00:11:10,404 --> 00:11:13,941
but also, you know, keeping
our debt levels, you know,

196
00:11:14,007 --> 00:11:17,077
in the future at a, at a
manageable pace, you know,

197
00:11:17,144 --> 00:11:20,714
is, is also part of that.
>> So. Meanwhile, the full

198
00:11:20,781 --> 00:11:24,051
city council is expected to
vote on paying the full

199
00:11:24,117 --> 00:11:27,120
cost. Do you expect that to
pass?

200
00:11:27,988 --> 00:11:31,158
>> You know, it remains to
be seen. I think there's,

201
00:11:31,225 --> 00:11:33,327
you know, some people that
are concerned about what

202
00:11:33,393 --> 00:11:36,830
our what our municipal debt
level is. But I think in

203
00:11:36,897 --> 00:11:40,934
the long term, this whole,
you know, this should win

204
00:11:41,001 --> 00:11:46,240
out as a as people see the
greater benefits of getting

205
00:11:46,306 --> 00:11:49,142
the lead out of our water
system and getting this

206
00:11:49,209 --> 00:11:51,845
program finished up in a
timely manner, you know, so

207
00:11:51,912 --> 00:11:55,282
that we can move on. And in
the future, you know, be

208
00:11:55,349 --> 00:11:58,285
more be more aggressive
with other, you know, other

209
00:11:58,352 --> 00:12:00,954
debt reduction programs. I
mean, right now, we've got

210
00:12:01,021 --> 00:12:04,625
the ability, you know, to
get these loans at a

211
00:12:04,691 --> 00:12:09,263
quarter of a percent. So
doing it now saves money

212
00:12:09,329 --> 00:12:11,798
later. We're probably on
the leader statewide were

213
00:12:11,865 --> 00:12:15,736
the leaders, you know, with
with Milwaukee and Racine.

214
00:12:15,802 --> 00:12:18,639
We've been I think we've
been fortunate that our

215
00:12:18,705 --> 00:12:21,842
previous, you know, mirror,
mirror administration

216
00:12:21,909 --> 00:12:25,779
really worked hard to
secure this funding and to

217
00:12:25,846 --> 00:12:28,782
get us, you know, get us
set up with this public

218
00:12:28,849 --> 00:12:33,520
private partnership that
it's really saving a lot of

219
00:12:33,587 --> 00:12:36,723
money. And I hope people
see that.

220
00:12:37,524 --> 00:12:41,161
>> All right. Well, Michael
Martens Alderperson, City

221
00:12:41,228 --> 00:12:44,464
of Wausau, thanks so much.
>> Okay. Well, thank you so

222
00:12:44,531 --> 00:12:47,434
much. It's a pleasure to be
here.

223
00:12:47,501 --> 00:12:49,903
>> Two years ago, we
checked in with the mayor

224
00:12:49,970 --> 00:12:53,240
of La Crosse, who was
painfully confronting

225
00:12:53,307 --> 00:12:56,543
surging numbers of people
experiencing homelessness

226
00:12:56,610 --> 00:13:00,280
and living in encampments.
In response to the problem,

227
00:13:00,347 --> 00:13:03,984
the city, county and local
organizations banded

228
00:13:04,051 --> 00:13:07,254
together in a concerted
effort to get people into

229
00:13:07,321 --> 00:13:10,858
housing. The five year
Pathways Home plan launched

230
00:13:10,924 --> 00:13:15,729
in 2024, when 300 people
were counted as unhoused in

231
00:13:16,296 --> 00:13:19,967
La Crosse. Today, that
number is under 200. The

232
00:13:20,033 --> 00:13:24,872
goal to get to a functional
zero homeless population by

233
00:13:24,938 --> 00:13:28,208
2029. We're joined now by
Jim Drees, the La Crosse

234
00:13:28,275 --> 00:13:31,645
County Homeless Response
Systems Manager and co-lead

235
00:13:31,712 --> 00:13:35,415
of Pathways Home. And
thanks very much for being

236
00:13:35,482 --> 00:13:38,585
here.
>> So what stands out about

237
00:13:38,652 --> 00:13:42,256
how the Pathways Home plan
is moving the needle on

238
00:13:42,322 --> 00:13:46,393
homelessness in La Crosse?
>> I think we've always had

239
00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:50,063
a dozen plus organizations
here in nonprofits

240
00:13:50,130 --> 00:13:53,000
supporting this community.
What was really critical

241
00:13:53,066 --> 00:13:56,069
was just getting alignment.
And so really sharing

242
00:13:56,136 --> 00:13:59,840
common information, a by
name list of anyone

243
00:13:59,907 --> 00:14:03,043
experiencing homelessness,
easy ways to get into our

244
00:14:03,110 --> 00:14:06,180
system. And then weekly
coordination where we have

245
00:14:06,246 --> 00:14:09,183
a dozen plus agencies
really working together. I

246
00:14:09,249 --> 00:14:12,386
think just achieving that
alignment was, was really

247
00:14:12,452 --> 00:14:14,955
important in terms of
making a lot of progress.

248
00:14:15,022 --> 00:14:17,824
>> What are the greatest
needs and greatest barriers

249
00:14:17,891 --> 00:14:20,894
to getting people into
housing?

250
00:14:21,562 --> 00:14:24,464
>> Yeah, one of the things
we look at with folks is we

251
00:14:24,531 --> 00:14:26,700
want to place them into
housing that's appropriate

252
00:14:26,767 --> 00:14:29,436
for their level of need. So
we'll categorize folks that

253
00:14:29,503 --> 00:14:33,574
need anywhere from a light
need to moderate, which we

254
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,443
consider once a week
intensive, which is daily

255
00:14:36,510 --> 00:14:39,780
support. And really in our
system, a lot of our

256
00:14:39,847 --> 00:14:41,915
reductions in homelessness
count have been with those

257
00:14:41,982 --> 00:14:44,985
of light and moderate needs,
easier to place, easier to

258
00:14:45,052 --> 00:14:48,021
house. Our biggest
challenge right now is

259
00:14:48,088 --> 00:14:51,191
folks that have intensive
support needs. So daily

260
00:14:51,258 --> 00:14:55,329
support, sometimes
overnight monitoring,

261
00:14:55,395 --> 00:14:59,166
typically related to mental
health, trauma, sometimes

262
00:14:59,233 --> 00:15:02,402
substance use. And that's
just a shortage in our

263
00:15:02,469 --> 00:15:04,638
system. These tend to be
the folks that have been

264
00:15:04,705 --> 00:15:07,040
unhoused the longest get
categorized as chronically

265
00:15:07,107 --> 00:15:09,176
homeless. And the longer
someone is unhoused, the

266
00:15:09,243 --> 00:15:11,345
higher their level of need
is usually.

267
00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:16,149
>> And so the Pathways Home
program includes these kind

268
00:15:16,216 --> 00:15:21,221
of wraparound services.
>> Yeah. So, so really, our

269
00:15:21,288 --> 00:15:24,324
goal is developing a wide
range of housing and a wide

270
00:15:24,391 --> 00:15:27,227
range of support services.
Part of our challenge is a

271
00:15:27,294 --> 00:15:29,663
lot of our really good
programs, helping folks

272
00:15:29,730 --> 00:15:32,699
with mental health,
substance use, housing

273
00:15:32,766 --> 00:15:35,602
stability issues require a
level of stability that

274
00:15:35,669 --> 00:15:38,872
often the unhoused
population doesn't have. So

275
00:15:38,939 --> 00:15:42,109
we've really extended our
outreach into the community.

276
00:15:42,176 --> 00:15:44,178
People don't have to come
into our building or into

277
00:15:44,244 --> 00:15:47,915
an agency. We are out
almost daily in terms of

278
00:15:47,981 --> 00:15:50,984
both general and targeted
outreach, because it really

279
00:15:51,051 --> 00:15:54,688
takes building trust and
connection to help people,

280
00:15:54,755 --> 00:15:56,723
you know, get involved in
the right programs that

281
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:59,693
lead them to the to
appropriate housing.

282
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,197
>> What does functional
zero mean? As stated as a

283
00:16:03,263 --> 00:16:07,067
goal by 2029?
>> Yeah. It recognizes that

284
00:16:07,901 --> 00:16:10,871
we won't always be able to
prevent someone from

285
00:16:10,938 --> 00:16:13,407
becoming unhoused. But when
they do, it's critically

286
00:16:13,473 --> 00:16:16,210
important that we get them
rehoused quickly. And so

287
00:16:16,276 --> 00:16:18,478
there's two measures that
we think about with

288
00:16:18,545 --> 00:16:21,682
functional zero. One, that
number of unhoused people

289
00:16:21,748 --> 00:16:25,319
in our community should be
lower than our ability, our

290
00:16:25,385 --> 00:16:28,488
proven ability to house
people in a given month. So

291
00:16:28,555 --> 00:16:31,091
right now we're housing
about nine people a month.

292
00:16:31,158 --> 00:16:33,961
So we need our count to be
under nine. That would say

293
00:16:34,027 --> 00:16:36,763
our system is capable of
rehousing them. And so the

294
00:16:36,830 --> 00:16:40,767
target is to rehouse
everyone within 30 days.

295
00:16:40,834 --> 00:16:42,970
>> What kind of success
have you had in eliminating

296
00:16:43,036 --> 00:16:46,607
people living in winter
encampments?

297
00:16:47,307 --> 00:16:50,410
>> Yeah. So really that's
where the city and county

298
00:16:50,477 --> 00:16:52,246
collaboration comes in,
because this is an issue

299
00:16:52,312 --> 00:16:55,382
that affects police, it
affects parks, it affects

300
00:16:55,449 --> 00:16:58,352
fire department, emergency
response. It affects

301
00:16:58,418 --> 00:17:02,322
community services. So City
of La Crosse created a

302
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:05,192
camping ban, which really
became the catalyst for

303
00:17:05,259 --> 00:17:09,930
clearing out encampments.
We are really trying to

304
00:17:09,997 --> 00:17:12,332
focus on everyone having a
shelter option right now.

305
00:17:12,399 --> 00:17:15,702
We don't have enough
emergency shelter beds on

306
00:17:15,769 --> 00:17:18,805
there, but we do have extra
overnight capacity during

307
00:17:18,872 --> 00:17:21,909
the winter. Recognizing how
critical that people have a

308
00:17:21,975 --> 00:17:25,012
place to stay overnight
when it's cold.

309
00:17:25,078 --> 00:17:28,315
>> What are kind of the
benchmark goals between now

310
00:17:28,382 --> 00:17:31,185
and 2029?
>> Yeah, it really is

311
00:17:32,719 --> 00:17:34,721
reaching functional zero.
And that's taking our count,

312
00:17:34,788 --> 00:17:39,092
which is a little under 200
right now, down to say

313
00:17:39,159 --> 00:17:43,764
under ten in terms of doing
that average duration of

314
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:46,667
homelessness, taking that
down to under 30 days up

315
00:17:46,733 --> 00:17:50,971
there. The other thing we
had to really adjust in our

316
00:17:51,038 --> 00:17:54,541
system was it's not just
about getting folks housed.

317
00:17:54,608 --> 00:17:58,478
Once folks are housed
historically in our system,

318
00:17:58,545 --> 00:18:00,781
unaddressed issues would
lead to evictions falling

319
00:18:00,848 --> 00:18:04,251
behind on rent, other
issues there. And so really,

320
00:18:04,318 --> 00:18:06,720
we've started this housing
stability tracker where

321
00:18:06,787 --> 00:18:09,022
when people are moved in,
we're staying connected.

322
00:18:09,089 --> 00:18:12,593
Who's staying connected?
How are we checking in? And

323
00:18:12,659 --> 00:18:15,729
so really that Housing
Stability Tracker would say,

324
00:18:15,796 --> 00:18:18,732
you know, the, the best
systems in our country

325
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:22,503
right now are tracking at
70 to 80% housing retention

326
00:18:22,569 --> 00:18:25,772
after two years. So it
doesn't always work for

327
00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:27,908
everyone. But again, we
want to place them in

328
00:18:27,975 --> 00:18:30,110
places where they can
retain housing, get the

329
00:18:30,177 --> 00:18:32,479
support they need.
>> How fulfilling is it to

330
00:18:32,546 --> 00:18:36,016
see this movement toward
finding this sustainable or

331
00:18:36,083 --> 00:18:39,219
stable housing for the
unhoused?

332
00:18:39,286 --> 00:18:42,222
>> Yeah, it's it's a mixed
bag. It's hard to celebrate

333
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:44,558
a milestone of going under
200 when you still have

334
00:18:44,625 --> 00:18:47,761
people unsheltered in your
community on there. The

335
00:18:47,828 --> 00:18:50,764
team is super dedicated in
terms of connecting with

336
00:18:50,831 --> 00:18:53,634
people. So, so I do think
we take success with each

337
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,204
move in. I remind folks all
the time that every number

338
00:18:57,271 --> 00:18:59,673
we put out there on our
dashboard is connected to a

339
00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:04,044
person with a name and a
story. And so we have good

340
00:19:04,111 --> 00:19:06,880
days that we celebrate move
ins. We have tough days

341
00:19:06,947 --> 00:19:10,117
where there's a remission
or someone lost housing.

342
00:19:10,184 --> 00:19:12,853
And so we try to stay
steady. We see ourselves as

343
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,590
the backbone of this system,
providing consistent

344
00:19:16,657 --> 00:19:18,926
options and resources for
housing and supportive

345
00:19:18,992 --> 00:19:21,094
services.
>> All right. We leave it

346
00:19:21,161 --> 00:19:24,464
there. Jim Drees. La Crosse,
thanks so much.

347
00:19:24,531 --> 00:19:28,569
>> You're welcome.
>> Finally tonight, what's

348
00:19:28,635 --> 00:19:32,072
in a name? A federal bill
authored by Congressman Tom

349
00:19:32,139 --> 00:19:35,976
Tiffany to re designate the
Apostle Islands from a

350
00:19:36,043 --> 00:19:39,613
national lakeshore to a
national park is, for some,

351
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,250
a practical opportunity to
attract more tourists to

352
00:19:43,317 --> 00:19:47,454
what would be the first and
only national park in

353
00:19:47,521 --> 00:19:50,023
Wisconsin. But there's
opposition from local

354
00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:52,593
governments, including the
Red Cliff band of Lake

355
00:19:52,659 --> 00:19:55,796
Superior Chippewa, who
stressed their obligation

356
00:19:55,863 --> 00:19:59,600
to preserve their homelands.
Reporter Erika Ayisi

357
00:19:59,666 --> 00:20:02,703
traveled to Bayfield County
to hear how the community

358
00:20:02,769 --> 00:20:06,773
feels about the name change.
This report was made in

359
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,177
collaboration with Here and
Now, and I see Te, formerly

360
00:20:10,244 --> 00:20:14,581
Indian country today.
>> As Raspberry Beach is

361
00:20:15,716 --> 00:20:17,951
another spot that a lot of
bullets Moore right there

362
00:20:18,018 --> 00:20:19,720
overnight.
>> The beach is just one of

363
00:20:19,786 --> 00:20:22,623
the majestic spots on a
cluster of islands off

364
00:20:22,689 --> 00:20:25,359
Bayfield, in the
northernmost tip of

365
00:20:25,425 --> 00:20:28,695
Wisconsin. They are sacred
to the Red Cliff tribal

366
00:20:28,762 --> 00:20:31,899
community.
not a play land for us.

367
00:20:32,566 --> 00:20:34,434
>> Nicole Boyd is
chairwoman of the Red Cliff

368
00:20:34,501 --> 00:20:36,937
Band of Lake Superior
Chippewa.

369
00:20:37,004 --> 00:20:41,642
>> We came here as part of
a prophecy of the traveling

370
00:20:41,708 --> 00:20:44,711
to where the food is on the
water.

371
00:20:45,379 --> 00:20:50,384
the Wisconsin side of Lake
Superior. It's 32,000mi'!S of

372
00:20:50,450 --> 00:20:56,023
the largest freshwater lake
in the world. Known for its

373
00:20:56,089 --> 00:20:59,526
pristine waters, historic
lighthouses, sea caves, and

374
00:20:59,593 --> 00:21:02,863
red sandstone cliffs, the
Apostle Islands attract

375
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:04,965
millions of visitors each
year.

376
00:21:05,032 --> 00:21:09,236
>> We have an incredible
responsibility, and tourism

377
00:21:09,303 --> 00:21:11,905
is a part of that.
>> Most of the islands here

378
00:21:11,972 --> 00:21:15,742
are a part of the Apostle
Islands National Lakeshore.

379
00:21:15,809 --> 00:21:18,612
Tom Tiffany, current
congressman for the seventh

380
00:21:18,679 --> 00:21:21,582
district, is proposing a
bill to redesignate what he

381
00:21:21,648 --> 00:21:24,384
calls the crown jewel of
Wisconsin.

382
00:21:24,451 --> 00:21:27,588
>> By elevating the Apostle
Islands from a national

383
00:21:27,654 --> 00:21:30,724
lakeshore to a national
park. We can ensure that

384
00:21:30,791 --> 00:21:33,227
thousands more are able to
visit this area.

385
00:21:33,293 --> 00:21:35,662
>> Boyd says news of
Tiffany's proposal was

386
00:21:35,729 --> 00:21:38,065
shocking.
>> First of all, says who?

387
00:21:38,131 --> 00:21:40,200
>> The Red Cliff band
maintains hunting rights

388
00:21:40,267 --> 00:21:43,504
for tribal members,
including the Apostle

389
00:21:43,570 --> 00:21:46,707
Islands. Tiffany says the
proposal affirms those

390
00:21:46,773 --> 00:21:50,043
treaty rights for all
others. He says even though

391
00:21:50,110 --> 00:21:53,413
hunting is not permitted in
national parks, it would be

392
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,250
on 1 Island.
>> My bill also maintains

393
00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:58,218
the heritage of hunting
within the Apostle Islands

394
00:21:58,285 --> 00:22:01,355
by designating, designating
Sand Island, a popular

395
00:22:01,421 --> 00:22:04,691
hunting destination as the
Sand Island National

396
00:22:04,758 --> 00:22:07,060
Preserve.
>> Tiffany says his bill

397
00:22:07,127 --> 00:22:09,396
incorporated tribal input
on treaty rights.

398
00:22:09,463 --> 00:22:11,632
>> I would also like to
note that tribal members

399
00:22:11,698 --> 00:22:14,735
were the first to receive
any drafts of this bill,

400
00:22:14,801 --> 00:22:17,004
and it is from consulting
with them and receiving

401
00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:20,073
their input that we have
included that language.

402
00:22:20,140 --> 00:22:22,276
>> Boyd says the Tribal
Council responded to the

403
00:22:22,342 --> 00:22:25,245
draft with concerns about
the environment, economy

404
00:22:25,312 --> 00:22:28,382
and resources.
>> We've never had a

405
00:22:28,448 --> 00:22:33,053
meeting. We've never met as
a governing body with

406
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,290
Representative Tiffany.
He's never sent his staff

407
00:22:36,356 --> 00:22:39,560
here to meet with our team.
>> With the draft

408
00:22:39,626 --> 00:22:43,130
resolution, did it mention
any financial support to

409
00:22:43,197 --> 00:22:45,365
make changes that he
propose?

410
00:22:45,432 --> 00:22:48,202
>> Not that we're aware of.
>> Boyd says the Red Cliff

411
00:22:48,268 --> 00:22:50,871
Tribal Council was told an
increase in tourism would

412
00:22:50,938 --> 00:22:54,741
generate revenue. After the
name change.

413
00:22:54,808 --> 00:22:58,011
>> That's what the increase
in tourism is going to do.

414
00:22:58,078 --> 00:23:00,113
And the vice chair asking,
so the check's in the mail,

415
00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:02,049
right?
>> If passed, the Apostle

416
00:23:02,115 --> 00:23:05,118
Islands would be
Wisconsin's first national

417
00:23:05,185 --> 00:23:08,689
park, Boyd says the Red
Cliff owns frog Bay Tribal

418
00:23:08,755 --> 00:23:12,259
National Park, and it's
already a first for the

419
00:23:12,326 --> 00:23:15,896
state and the nation.
>> And again, has just felt

420
00:23:15,963 --> 00:23:20,634
a little spited that our
own representative of our

421
00:23:22,536 --> 00:23:26,073
state has not acknowledged.
>> Right behind me is just

422
00:23:26,139 --> 00:23:29,877
one of 22 Apostle islands
near the Red Cliff band of

423
00:23:29,943 --> 00:23:33,146
Lake Superior Chippewa.
Over 4 million people

424
00:23:33,213 --> 00:23:37,050
visited these islands and
Bayfield County in 2025.

425
00:23:37,117 --> 00:23:40,020
But Bayfield County
officials say they also

426
00:23:40,087 --> 00:23:43,223
oppose a new national park
designation, and they're

427
00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:45,993
worried about managing
emergency services in this

428
00:23:46,059 --> 00:23:48,428
rural community.
>> We're missing calls. We

429
00:23:48,495 --> 00:23:51,899
don't mean to be, but we
don't. We're having trouble

430
00:23:51,965 --> 00:23:55,702
manning our EMS. We're
already in a a pretty dire

431
00:23:55,769 --> 00:23:58,071
situation.
>> Jan Lee, Bayfield County

432
00:23:58,138 --> 00:24:02,409
Board of Supervisors, says
about 16,000 people live in

433
00:24:02,476 --> 00:24:05,913
Bayfield County, and their
tax dollars are responsible

434
00:24:05,979 --> 00:24:09,816
for providing emergency
services for all visitors.

435
00:24:09,883 --> 00:24:12,386
>> In order to cover that,
we have to, you know, raise

436
00:24:12,452 --> 00:24:14,621
our levy. We have to raise
the taxes.

437
00:24:14,688 --> 00:24:16,690
>> The National Park
Service manages the Apostle

438
00:24:16,757 --> 00:24:19,693
Islands National Lakeshore.
Boyd says they are short

439
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,129
staffed.
dangerous. If you are a

440
00:24:22,196 --> 00:24:25,065
visitor coming here and we
don't have enough law

441
00:24:25,132 --> 00:24:26,800
enforcement staff that can
respond to an emergency on

442
00:24:26,867 --> 00:24:29,269
the lake.
>> Back in Bayfield, Dan

443
00:24:29,336 --> 00:24:32,005
Cardinal visits Lake
Superior from Wanaka every

444
00:24:32,072 --> 00:24:34,842
year and says he supports
the bill.

445
00:24:34,908 --> 00:24:37,110
>> Cautiously I do. I mean,
if it guarantees the future

446
00:24:37,177 --> 00:24:40,514
of Apostle Islands to
continue in the path

447
00:24:40,581 --> 00:24:44,051
they've been on for the
last 100 years, absolutely.

448
00:24:44,117 --> 00:24:47,287
>> He offers support with
caution after reportedly

449
00:24:47,354 --> 00:24:49,456
hearing the Trump
administration's suggestion

450
00:24:49,523 --> 00:24:52,459
to sell some of the
nation's parks.

451
00:24:52,526 --> 00:24:54,995
>> The Apostle Islands are
not subject to that kind of

452
00:24:55,062 --> 00:24:57,898
action right now, and that
would make me think like,

453
00:24:57,965 --> 00:25:00,033
maybe we shouldn't rush
into this.

454
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:03,270
>> Leave the beauty alone.
>> Christie Branagan is an

455
00:25:03,337 --> 00:25:06,039
enrolled member of the Red
Cliff band and lives on the

456
00:25:06,106 --> 00:25:08,575
reservation. And she says
more tourists might

457
00:25:08,642 --> 00:25:12,446
interrupt their ceremonies.
>> A lot of people hold

458
00:25:12,513 --> 00:25:15,816
ceremonies down by the
water. Gichi-gami Lake

459
00:25:15,883 --> 00:25:20,888
Superior, and with a lot of
people coming in tourism,

460
00:25:20,954 --> 00:25:23,757
we don't want to be
disturbed.

461
00:25:24,491 --> 00:25:26,994
>> Boyd says she doesn't
expect people to understand

462
00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:30,030
the Red cliffs frustrations
with Redesignating, the

463
00:25:30,097 --> 00:25:33,867
Apostle Islands.
>> I've heard people say,

464
00:25:33,934 --> 00:25:36,470
well, if if the name change
isn't the big deal, what's

465
00:25:36,537 --> 00:25:38,839
the big deal?
>> She says it's more than

466
00:25:38,906 --> 00:25:42,910
a change in name.
>> It is understanding the

467
00:25:43,977 --> 00:25:47,414
obligation to protect and
preserve this land. And all

468
00:25:47,481 --> 00:25:51,485
the beings here and our
water for everyone.

469
00:25:52,219 --> 00:25:56,089
>> In Bayfield. I'm Eric
Ayisi for here and Now. And

470
00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:58,959
I see te.
>> For more on this and

471
00:26:00,294 --> 00:26:02,663
other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our

472
00:26:02,729 --> 00:26:05,465
website at PBS
wisconsin.org and then

473
00:26:05,532 --> 00:26:08,235
click on the news tab.
That's our program for

474
00:26:08,302 --> 00:26:10,637
tonight. I'm Frederica
Freyberg. Have a good

475
00:26:10,704 --> 00:26:12,372
weekend.
[MUSIC]

476
00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:28,121
>> Funding for Here and now
is provided by the Focus

477
00:26:40,901 --> 00:26:45,572
Fund for Journalism and
friends of PBS Wisconsin.