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>> The following program is
a PBS Wisconsin Original

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production.
>> President Trump makes a

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visit to Wisconsin, and so
does his health secretary,

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both here ahead of the
midterms to stress the

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importance and survival of
dairy farms.

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[MUSIC]
I'm Frederica Freyberg.

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Tonight on "Here& Now" we
talk with the incoming

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chairman of the Wisconsin
Elections Commission about

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new federal rules on
absentee ballots and the

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FBI probe in Milwaukee into
the 2020 election. We have

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a report on the number and
reasons why so many rural

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schools across the state
are closing their doors

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permanently.
And we hear what the

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president had to say today
during his visit to

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Wisconsin. It's "Here& Now"
for June 5th.

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>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> A new national Marquette
Law School poll has Donald

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Trump's overall approval
rating continuing to

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decline, now down to 38%.
The survey shows approval

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of his handling of the
economy at 30% and 19% for

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how Trump is handling the
spike in gas prices set

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against this sentiment
heading into the midterms.

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President Trump visited
western Wisconsin today to

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rally support for his ag
policies and to lend a

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campaign boost to state
Republicans running in

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November.
>> We're at a point we're

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going to come out of Iran
very quickly, and it's

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going to be very strong one
way or the other, whether

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it's a piece of paper or
the very tough way. Okay.

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The very tough way is maybe
the easier way, but we're

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going to come out and your
fertilizer prices are going

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to go way down, just like
they were four months ago.

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Your fertilizers down, your
energy's down your oil.

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Your gas is all coming way
down. And frankly, I

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thought it would go much
higher than it did. I

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thought, frankly, that
gasoline would be much

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higher every day. My
administration is fighting

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to protect and defend the
jobs and livelihood of our

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great farmers. I love our
farmers, our growers,

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agricultural producers,
ranchers from coast to

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coast. And I just see that
dairy exports have surged

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nearly $1.2 billion under
our leadership. And just

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and this is with a conflict
going on.

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>> Although President Trump
retained strong positive

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influence among Republican
primary voters in light of

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his overall slipping poll
numbers, this week's

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episode of Inside Wisconsin
Politics considered the

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optics of Republicans
running for Congress or

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governor campaigning
alongside him. Here's what

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they had to say about it.
>> If you look back in

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history more on the
Democratic side, there is a

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history of some candidates
not only not sure if they

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want to sit next to an
unpopular president in a

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midterm election. In 2010,
President Obama came to

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Madison. There was a big
question of whether Russ

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Feingold was going to
appear on the stage. In the

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end, he did. But all the
weeks leading up to it, his

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campaign wasn't sure he
might be in Africa. He had

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some other things going on.
And that was really a

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political question of does
he want to be seen with him?

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And he ended up losing that
race. That was the Tea

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Party wave before it was
just two years ago.

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President Biden visited
Madison off that disastrous

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debate performance. Tammy
Baldwin was elsewhere. She

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didn't come to Madison to
be with the president.

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That's about campaign
optics.

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>> The president right now
has some of his lowest

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approval ratings throughout
his time in office. But

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farmers in particular have
really helped deliver him

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victories. I believe in his
last election, he won the

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vast, vast majority of farm
dependent counties in the

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country. And yet a lot of
his policies, tariff

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policies in particular,
have really been connected

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with some of the pain that
farmers have been feeling.

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So tariffs that have caused,
you know, weakened overseas

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markets for for corn and
soy, and then increased

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prices on steel and
aluminum. So we have seen

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changes in his policies in
ways that are, I think,

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aimed really directly at
trying to appeal to these

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farmers. Earlier this week,
he signed an executive

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order to lower some tariffs
on agricultural equipment

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in particular. And so now
he's coming to Wisconsin to

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talk directly to farmers
and kind of try to make

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sure that that part of his
base is secure.

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>> The Republicans need
this area, and they need

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Trump's voters to come out
when he is not on the

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ballot. Republicans across
the state struggle to get

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turnout, especially in
western and northern

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Wisconsin. That is the Maga
base of this state in the

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seventh and the third. And
without those voters, they

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could really struggle in
the fall. So they actually

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need to attach themselves
even closer to Donald Trump

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at this point, even if it
looks like, politically

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speaking, it may not be the
smartest move because of

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his terrible numbers on a
lot of things.

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>> For their part, upon
Trump's visit, Wisconsin

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Democrats called the
president's farm policy and

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the war in Iran a
disastrous agenda for

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farmers across the state.
>> This president has

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launched us into an illegal,
an entirely unnecessary war

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in Iran. This war that no
one wanted has tragically

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taken the lives of 13
service members. It's taken

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the president's time and
focus and has taken money

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out of the pockets of our
farmers. Because of this

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war, diesel prices hit
record highs in Wisconsin

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last month, up 80% from the
year before, and global

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fertilizer prices have
jumped 50% in recent months.

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Farmers are paying more for
their inputs and getting

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less for their outputs.
Because President Trump and

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my Republican colleagues in
the Congress and their

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policies. For many farmers,
this means an impossible

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choice sell at a loss or
pay to store crops and hope

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that prices improve in the
future.

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>> Even as the president
and members of his cabinet

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make campaign swings
through Wisconsin this week,

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the Trump administration is
working behind the scenes

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on the electoral process
leading up to the November

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elections. This week, the
U.S. Postal Service

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released its proposed rule
attached to the president's

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March executive order,
titled Ensuring Citizenship

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Verification and Integrity
in Federal Elections.

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That's an order. Governor
Tony Evers at the time

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called BS. The order
instructs the Departments

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of Homeland Security and
Social Security to send

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state election officials
lists of confirmed U.S.

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citizens and prevents mail
in ballots to anyone not on

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the list. Add to that, the
FBI has been in Milwaukee

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interviewing and seeking to
talk with election

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officials who worked the
2020 election that Trump

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declares he actually won
but didn't. Trump maintains

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his loss was a result of
widespread voter fraud,

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which never proved out. Set
against all this, we turn

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to Wisconsin Elections
Commission chair elect

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Republican member Don
Millis. And Mr. Millis,

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thanks very much for being
here.

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>> Great to see you.
>> So is it another rough

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and tumble election cycle
staring down the Wisconsin

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Elections Commission?
>> Well, more. The rough

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and tumble certainly is
going to be in the

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political ads that are run
between the candidates. You

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know, this has always been
an issue for the elections

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Commission. You know,
counter lawsuits and

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proposed regulations. You
know, I'm not I'm not too

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worried about it. I know
that the things that really

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bother me the most are that
concern me the most are

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making sure that absentee
ballots, if they're mailed

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back a week or two before
the election, they get

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there on Election Day.
Those are things that we're

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working to try to working
with the post office to

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make sure that that happens.
Those are the things that

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concern me the most.
>> Because Hodek has called

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on the U.S. Postal Service
to speed up deliveries of

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absentee ballots. After I
read two thirds of of

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clerks reported mail delays
during the April 7th

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election, how bad was it?
>> Well, it was so bad that

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when the commission staff
sent out a questionnaire to

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clerks, they got an
overwhelming and historic

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response from clerks.
Typically, clerks don't

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respond. There was a huge,
huge concern. The. The

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staff have met with the
Postal service officials.

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We are trying to get what's
known as enhanced delivery

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procedures that they would
agree to. When we have

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elections. This would mean,
for example, that when you

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put a return a ballot to
Madison or Grafton or Eau

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Claire, it wouldn't have to
go to Milwaukee or

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Minneapolis. It would go
straight to the clerk. And

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so those are things we're
working on. Those are the

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things we do behind the
scenes that no one really

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seems to pay much attention
to. I'm glad that you're

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paying attention to it,
that we can really make

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sure that our elections are
done effectively and

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efficiently.
response from the USPS on

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that?
>> I think the staff have

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indicated that it was a
generally a very positive

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response. I think there's a
dedication to making sure

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that absentee ballots are
returned promptly, having

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multiple deliveries on
Election Day, things like

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that. I think it's I think
it was a very constructive

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conversation.
>> As to these federally

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generated voter lists for
delivery of absentee

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ballots. Do you think
that's a good idea?

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>> Well, I think it's
problematic. I mean, one of

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the concerns is they want
to use intelligent mail

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barcodes on the return we
use we use those on the

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when ballots are sent out.
Again, the problem with

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that is that it delays it.
I'm guessing that as with

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so many other executive
orders and regulations.

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>> That.
>> Have come out of the

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Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump,
white Houses, the. The

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courts are going to have
their say if it looks like

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it's going to pass muster
with the courts, that's

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when we probably become
concerned. And we'll

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certainly have contingency
plans if it looks like it's

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going to fall into place.
But what was published last

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week was just a preliminary
notice and comment in the

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Federal Register. I'm not.
I think it's unlikely that

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that regulation is going to
be in play for the November

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election.
>> So what is your response

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to the FBI poking around on
the 2020 election in

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Wisconsin, specifically in
Milwaukee?

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>> Well, I've seen
politicians on the press

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report about it. Everything
that I've seen in talking

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to people who have been
interviewed is that the

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interviews have been
professional. They've been

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done by career employees.
And it wasn't really what I

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call an investigation. I
think there's an effort to

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prepare a report for
probably someone higher up

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in the Department of
Justice or the FBI. I am

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not confident that anything
more will come of it.

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Certainly, the conversation
that was reported in the

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press with the Election
Commission staffer, the

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questions that were asked
were, can you debunk these

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election conspiracy
theories? I think the

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staffer did a very good job
of that. And so I'm not

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sure that we'll have an
investigation. I think it's

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doubtful that we'll see the
FBI come in to any clerk's

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office in in Milwaukee or
Madison or elsewhere with a

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search warrant. I think
mostly what's going on is

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that they're trying to
draft a report so that

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those in Washington can
evaluate.

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>> With all of this
happening behind the scenes,

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really, what should voters
do to make sure they can

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cast a ballot that is
counted?

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>> Well, certainly. Go on
my vote. Make sure that

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you're voting in the right
place if you're going to

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vote absentee. We don't
want to discourage people

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from doing that. Make sure
your ballot, fill it out,

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send it back early. Or if
you're concerned about the

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mails, place it in a secure
drop box. If your

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municipality has one or
deliver it to your clerk,

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that's the most important
thing.

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>> All right. We leave it
there. Don Millis, thanks

234
00:12:08,395 --> 00:12:10,197
very much.
>> Thank you. Have a good

235
00:12:10,264 --> 00:12:13,100
weekend.
>> In other news, dozens of

236
00:12:13,166 --> 00:12:17,304
school districts around the
state asked voters for $1

237
00:12:17,371 --> 00:12:19,540
billion in ballot
referendums in the latest

238
00:12:19,606 --> 00:12:22,409
spring election. Much of
that money was just to keep

239
00:12:22,476 --> 00:12:25,612
the schools open and
operating. But many of

240
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,315
those referendums failed.
And that means some schools

241
00:12:28,382 --> 00:12:31,952
in rural Wisconsin will
permanently close. Here and

242
00:12:32,019 --> 00:12:35,189
now. Reporter Steven Potter
has this report on rural

243
00:12:35,255 --> 00:12:38,692
school closures.
>> Thousands of the state's

244
00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:41,562
public schools are closing
for summer break. But there

245
00:12:41,628 --> 00:12:44,865
are two schools set next to
farms in central Wisconsin.

246
00:12:44,932 --> 00:12:46,834
>> We had to make the
difficult decision to shut

247
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:49,303
the doors of two of our
rural schools.

248
00:12:49,369 --> 00:12:53,006
>> That won't reopen next
fall or ever again.

249
00:12:53,073 --> 00:12:55,409
>> This is definitely the
worst day of my career as

250
00:12:55,475 --> 00:12:57,978
an educator, and I think
it's one of the darkest

251
00:12:58,045 --> 00:12:59,746
days in the history of
Portage.

252
00:12:59,813 --> 00:13:01,915
>> Josh Swain is the
district administrator for

253
00:13:01,982 --> 00:13:05,018
the Portage Community
School District. He says

254
00:13:05,085 --> 00:13:07,721
the decision to close two
elementary schools, one in

255
00:13:07,788 --> 00:13:10,490
Marquette County, the other
in Columbia County,

256
00:13:10,557 --> 00:13:13,393
couldn't be avoided.
>> Purely for budgetary

257
00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:16,964
reasons. And that is
something that's going on

258
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:19,233
all over the state.
>> Swain says. They did try

259
00:13:19,299 --> 00:13:22,536
to keep Lewiston and
Endeavor elementary schools

260
00:13:22,603 --> 00:13:26,206
open as long as they could.
>> The issue is funding,

261
00:13:26,273 --> 00:13:28,208
right? We just don't have
the funding to be able to

262
00:13:28,275 --> 00:13:30,043
do that.
>> After a referendum

263
00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:32,513
asking voters for more
money failed this spring,

264
00:13:32,579 --> 00:13:35,849
the school district made
the difficult decision.

265
00:13:35,916 --> 00:13:38,852
Portage isn't alone. Last
year, school districts in

266
00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:43,023
several rural counties such
as Dunn, Vilas, Jefferson,

267
00:13:43,090 --> 00:13:47,027
Richland, Juneau and others
all closed at least one

268
00:13:47,094 --> 00:13:49,897
school the year before that.
Another handful of schools

269
00:13:49,963 --> 00:13:53,400
in other, lesser populated
counties also closed. And

270
00:13:53,467 --> 00:13:55,969
earlier this spring, the
Hustisford School Board in

271
00:13:56,036 --> 00:13:58,071
Dodge County voted to
completely dissolve the

272
00:13:58,138 --> 00:14:00,974
school district, which
means the elementary,

273
00:14:01,041 --> 00:14:04,878
middle and high schools
will all close this year.

274
00:14:04,945 --> 00:14:07,381
Education experts say that
the impact of school

275
00:14:07,447 --> 00:14:10,684
closures on small
communities is very painful.

276
00:14:10,751 --> 00:14:13,587
>> A rural school is the
heart and soul and the

277
00:14:13,654 --> 00:14:16,290
identity of a community.
>> Bradley Karl studies

278
00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:19,660
rural school systems for
the UW-Madison, Wisconsin,

279
00:14:19,726 --> 00:14:22,196
Center for Education
Research. He says that part

280
00:14:22,262 --> 00:14:24,798
of the reason that small
rural schools are so missed

281
00:14:24,865 --> 00:14:28,602
when they close is because
they do so much so well.

282
00:14:28,669 --> 00:14:31,905
>> Things like small class
sizes and strong

283
00:14:31,972 --> 00:14:34,408
relationships between
teachers and students, and

284
00:14:34,474 --> 00:14:36,276
strong relationships
between school districts

285
00:14:36,343 --> 00:14:38,612
and employers in the
community.

286
00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:40,614
>> Services beyond the
regular school day are

287
00:14:40,681 --> 00:14:42,783
important for working
parents.

288
00:14:42,850 --> 00:14:45,619
>> School districts also
provide after school care,

289
00:14:45,686 --> 00:14:48,322
before school care, and
summer programs, and that

290
00:14:48,388 --> 00:14:50,824
has an economic impact in
terms of allowing families

291
00:14:50,891 --> 00:14:52,993
to work.
>> Schools in rural areas

292
00:14:53,060 --> 00:14:56,463
can also be a social hub
for the community.

293
00:14:56,530 --> 00:14:58,365
>> Everyone goes to the
basketball games on Friday

294
00:14:58,432 --> 00:15:00,934
night or the football games
on Friday night, but it's

295
00:15:01,001 --> 00:15:03,437
so much more than that, too.
It's going to the theater

296
00:15:03,504 --> 00:15:05,506
productions and the
homecoming parades.

297
00:15:05,572 --> 00:15:08,809
>> School closures are not
unique to rural areas. Over

298
00:15:08,876 --> 00:15:11,845
the last 20 years, more
than 600 public schools

299
00:15:11,912 --> 00:15:15,282
across Wisconsin have
closed, but nearly 40% of

300
00:15:15,349 --> 00:15:19,119
them have been in small,
rural counties of less than

301
00:15:19,186 --> 00:15:23,423
100,000 residents. In all,
that's around 250 rural

302
00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:26,159
schools that have closed.
Like in Portage. There's

303
00:15:26,226 --> 00:15:28,795
just not enough money to
keep the doors open. And

304
00:15:28,862 --> 00:15:31,865
that's usually because
there are fewer students

305
00:15:31,932 --> 00:15:33,567
enrolled.
>> Two thirds, maybe three

306
00:15:33,634 --> 00:15:35,903
quarters of the rural
districts in Wisconsin. As

307
00:15:35,969 --> 00:15:38,639
is the case around the
country, are facing

308
00:15:38,705 --> 00:15:41,842
declining enrollment. Given
the way we fund schools,

309
00:15:41,909 --> 00:15:44,578
declining enrollment means
declining revenue from the

310
00:15:44,645 --> 00:15:46,413
state.
>> Figures from the

311
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,448
Wisconsin Department of
Public Instruction show

312
00:15:48,515 --> 00:15:51,451
that student enrollment in
public schools has declined

313
00:15:51,518 --> 00:15:55,822
roughly 7% over the last
two decades. Population

314
00:15:55,889 --> 00:15:58,825
experts agree that this is
a nationwide problem,

315
00:15:58,892 --> 00:16:02,029
largely due to shrinking
birthrates.

316
00:16:02,095 --> 00:16:04,798
>> Declining enrollment is
real, and it's a challenge.

317
00:16:04,865 --> 00:16:07,000
>> Jeff I.D. knows the
problems facing rural

318
00:16:07,067 --> 00:16:09,503
school districts better
than most. He's the

319
00:16:09,570 --> 00:16:12,472
executive director of the
Wisconsin Rural Schools

320
00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:15,843
Alliance.
>> 70% of the schools in

321
00:16:15,909 --> 00:16:19,179
the state are rural, so we
have a lot of rural schools.

322
00:16:19,246 --> 00:16:21,748
Not the majority of the
students are within our

323
00:16:21,815 --> 00:16:25,485
rural areas, but that's a
large footprint in

324
00:16:25,552 --> 00:16:27,821
Wisconsin.
>> I.D. says rural schools

325
00:16:27,888 --> 00:16:30,724
are doing their best.
>> They are working their

326
00:16:30,791 --> 00:16:33,093
buns off. They're working
hard to do the best they

327
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,495
can with the resources that
they have.

328
00:16:35,562 --> 00:16:37,764
>> He adds that what the
state provides in per

329
00:16:37,831 --> 00:16:42,336
student funding isn't 100%
of what a school needs to

330
00:16:42,402 --> 00:16:44,738
operate, so they pull in
money from local government

331
00:16:44,805 --> 00:16:47,841
and property taxes to make
up the difference. And over

332
00:16:47,908 --> 00:16:51,211
the years, more and more
small and rural communities

333
00:16:51,278 --> 00:16:54,581
are having to go to ballot
referendums to ask

334
00:16:54,648 --> 00:16:57,751
residents for more money to
keep their schools open.

335
00:16:57,818 --> 00:17:01,588
>> I do see school
referendums at this time as

336
00:17:01,655 --> 00:17:06,059
a continuing trend,
unfortunately. I'm hoping

337
00:17:06,126 --> 00:17:09,930
one day that it becomes an
anomaly and not a need.

338
00:17:09,997 --> 00:17:11,999
>> Another major factor is
the rising cost of

339
00:17:12,065 --> 00:17:14,301
everything from gas for
busses to heating and

340
00:17:14,368 --> 00:17:17,538
cooling costs, to building
and even playground

341
00:17:17,604 --> 00:17:19,540
maintenance, as well as
school supplies and the

342
00:17:19,606 --> 00:17:21,775
need for new technology.
It's simply becoming more

343
00:17:21,842 --> 00:17:24,845
and more expensive to
educate students.

344
00:17:24,912 --> 00:17:26,914
>> But I think everybody's
struggling with the funding

345
00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:29,049
formula that we currently
have.

346
00:17:29,116 --> 00:17:31,952
>> Swain and ID agree that
changes to the state's

347
00:17:32,019 --> 00:17:35,189
school funding formula are
needed, like a per student

348
00:17:35,255 --> 00:17:37,758
rate increase tied to
inflation. That was part of

349
00:17:37,824 --> 00:17:40,561
the school funding formula
more than a decade ago. But

350
00:17:40,627 --> 00:17:42,663
state lawmakers
discontinued the practice

351
00:17:42,729 --> 00:17:44,932
back during the Great
Recession.

352
00:17:44,998 --> 00:17:47,835
>> We need to make sure
we're doing the best we can

353
00:17:47,901 --> 00:17:49,803
to meet the rate of
inflation. We haven't done

354
00:17:49,870 --> 00:17:52,840
that for many years.
>> If inflationary

355
00:17:52,906 --> 00:17:56,109
increases had continued
from 2009 to the end of

356
00:17:56,176 --> 00:18:01,148
this biennium, we would not
have a gap of it's $3,573

357
00:18:01,215 --> 00:18:04,418
per student that we would
have gotten in state aid or

358
00:18:04,484 --> 00:18:07,688
in that per pupil revenue.
>> But in order for there

359
00:18:07,754 --> 00:18:10,524
to be a change in the
school funding formula at

360
00:18:10,591 --> 00:18:12,659
the state level, state
lawmakers and the governor

361
00:18:12,726 --> 00:18:15,796
would need to agree on what
those changes would be.

362
00:18:15,863 --> 00:18:18,065
>> There's a lot of
challenges in a rural

363
00:18:18,131 --> 00:18:20,200
district. Also. There's a
lot of really great things

364
00:18:20,267 --> 00:18:22,703
about a smaller rural
school.

365
00:18:22,769 --> 00:18:25,539
>> In the state Assembly.
Democrat Karen DeSiato

366
00:18:25,606 --> 00:18:27,808
represents the area that
includes the Portage

367
00:18:27,875 --> 00:18:30,677
Community School District,
where those two schools are

368
00:18:30,744 --> 00:18:34,281
closing. She says schools
are a draw for residents.

369
00:18:34,348 --> 00:18:38,585
>> When a school falters,
especially in a very small

370
00:18:38,652 --> 00:18:42,456
rural community, it affects
everyone. If a school is

371
00:18:42,523 --> 00:18:46,360
not there in a smaller
community, it discourages

372
00:18:46,426 --> 00:18:49,830
people to live there.
>> DeSiato is open to

373
00:18:49,897 --> 00:18:52,165
changes in school funding.
>> Our budgets are based on

374
00:18:52,232 --> 00:18:55,536
our values. As
Wisconsinites. Our values

375
00:18:55,602 --> 00:18:59,273
are to support our kids in
public education and we are

376
00:18:59,339 --> 00:19:01,909
not doing that.
>> Across the political

377
00:19:01,975 --> 00:19:04,478
aisle. Republican State
Representative Lindy Brill

378
00:19:04,545 --> 00:19:08,182
from Sheboygan Falls says
state budgets need to be

379
00:19:08,248 --> 00:19:10,784
balanced.
education is a priority in

380
00:19:10,851 --> 00:19:13,554
our state, which I do
believe our future

381
00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:15,455
generations is a priority,
then we need to figure out

382
00:19:15,522 --> 00:19:18,258
where we're cutting
elsewhere.

383
00:19:18,325 --> 00:19:19,993
state school funding
formula.

384
00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:22,696
>> I do think we are well
overdue to look at it now.

385
00:19:22,763 --> 00:19:26,133
That doesn't mean a
complete overhaul, but I do

386
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,570
think we need to figure out
if this is the best way to

387
00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:32,172
serve the state.
compromise, school boards

388
00:19:32,239 --> 00:19:35,542
and administrators will
continue to struggle and

389
00:19:35,609 --> 00:19:38,846
keep asking voters for more
money.

390
00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:41,915
day, we still need to
balance the budget. And we

391
00:19:41,982 --> 00:19:44,151
don't we don't have the
money to do it.

392
00:19:44,218 --> 00:19:47,120
>> And in many cases, it's
all but certain that rural

393
00:19:47,187 --> 00:19:49,423
communities will keep
closing schools. Reporting

394
00:19:49,489 --> 00:19:54,061
from Portage. I'm Steven
Potter for "Here& Now".

395
00:19:54,661 --> 00:19:57,698
>> If you have children and
child care programs, expect

396
00:19:57,764 --> 00:20:00,934
tuition to go up and
availability to go down.

397
00:20:01,001 --> 00:20:04,271
That's because temporary
Covid era funding to help

398
00:20:04,338 --> 00:20:07,808
providers keep costs down
and retain staff is set to

399
00:20:07,875 --> 00:20:11,078
expire at the end of June.
The child care bridge

400
00:20:11,144 --> 00:20:15,082
payments of $110 million
took up after more robust

401
00:20:15,148 --> 00:20:18,452
federal stabilization
funding ended results from

402
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:21,822
a new report and survey
from the Wisconsin Early

403
00:20:21,889 --> 00:20:25,559
Childhood Association show
that three quarters of

404
00:20:25,626 --> 00:20:28,662
providers across the state
said they'll need to raise

405
00:20:28,729 --> 00:20:31,598
tuition, and a quarter of
providers said they're

406
00:20:31,665 --> 00:20:35,502
likely to close. We're
joined now by Paula Drew,

407
00:20:35,569 --> 00:20:38,305
director of early childhood
education policy and

408
00:20:38,372 --> 00:20:40,674
research for the
association, and thanks

409
00:20:40,741 --> 00:20:42,976
very much for being here.
>> Thanks for having me.

410
00:20:43,043 --> 00:20:46,713
>> So with costs up
elsewhere for food and fuel,

411
00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:50,851
how are working families
who depend on childcare

412
00:20:50,918 --> 00:20:54,655
likely to respond to these
tuition hikes?

413
00:20:54,721 --> 00:20:57,891
>> I think families around
the state right now are

414
00:20:57,958 --> 00:21:00,460
sitting around tables like
this, asking themselves,

415
00:21:00,527 --> 00:21:04,131
does it make sense for one
of us to keep working? If

416
00:21:04,198 --> 00:21:08,035
it makes sense, should we
work part time instead of

417
00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:10,737
sending our child to a
licensed child care program

418
00:21:10,804 --> 00:21:15,542
down the street? Perhaps we
should entertain a

419
00:21:15,609 --> 00:21:19,112
grandparent, a neighbor,
because the cost of care is

420
00:21:19,179 --> 00:21:22,683
just becoming unaffordable
to the point where those

421
00:21:22,749 --> 00:21:26,987
who have the means to
access it will, and those

422
00:21:27,487 --> 00:21:29,923
that don't simply will be
sort of priced out of the

423
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:31,425
market.
>> Because what kind of

424
00:21:31,491 --> 00:21:35,262
tuition increases could we
be talking about in general?

425
00:21:35,329 --> 00:21:39,666
>> So 75% of child care
providers at answer this

426
00:21:40,434 --> 00:21:42,769
question, and they said, we
will have to raise our

427
00:21:42,836 --> 00:21:46,773
tuition rates at least $25
per week. And so that's,

428
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,477
you know, between 2000 and
$3000 per year.

429
00:21:50,544 --> 00:21:53,280
>> It's already pretty
expensive.

430
00:21:53,347 --> 00:21:55,549
>> It's already, I think,
at the point where some

431
00:21:55,616 --> 00:21:57,584
families can no longer
afford it.

432
00:21:57,651 --> 00:22:00,320
>> So how meaningful was
the original "Child Care

433
00:22:00,387 --> 00:22:02,723
Counts" program that used
federal emergency Covid

434
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:05,192
funds to stabilize the
industry?

435
00:22:05,259 --> 00:22:08,762
>> The original "Child Care
Counts" program was very

436
00:22:08,829 --> 00:22:11,298
meaningful, and child care
providers have been on

437
00:22:11,365 --> 00:22:13,467
record over and over and
over, stating, this is the

438
00:22:13,534 --> 00:22:16,270
first time I've ever been
able to start a retirement

439
00:22:16,336 --> 00:22:20,040
account. For our early
educators, we are actually

440
00:22:20,107 --> 00:22:22,142
accessing health insurance
for the very first time.

441
00:22:22,209 --> 00:22:24,378
Our early educators are
earning a wage in which

442
00:22:24,444 --> 00:22:27,848
they only have to work one
job. It also kept tuition

443
00:22:27,915 --> 00:22:30,717
rates affordable for
parents.

444
00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:34,121
>> How much of Wisconsin
providers gotten from both

445
00:22:34,188 --> 00:22:36,890
programs?
>> Hundreds of millions of

446
00:22:36,957 --> 00:22:39,693
dollars.
>> And so going from

447
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,329
hundreds of millions of
dollars over the past six

448
00:22:42,396 --> 00:22:46,266
years to nothing, it's easy
to see why your survey

449
00:22:46,333 --> 00:22:48,535
results show that they will
have to make some of these

450
00:22:48,602 --> 00:22:51,738
very difficult choices.
>> That's right. For years

451
00:22:51,805 --> 00:22:54,508
on end, childcare providers
have been depending on this

452
00:22:54,575 --> 00:22:57,711
funding to meet the gap
between what parents can

453
00:22:57,778 --> 00:22:59,580
pay and what it actually
costs to provide high

454
00:22:59,646 --> 00:23:03,984
quality childcare. And
without those funds, most

455
00:23:04,051 --> 00:23:06,787
people within the field are
asking these same, very

456
00:23:06,854 --> 00:23:09,790
hard questions that parents
are should we close? Should

457
00:23:09,857 --> 00:23:12,893
we let go of some staff?
Should we lessen the hours

458
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,163
of operations that we have,
stop providing food, stop

459
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:19,366
providing bussing, you know,
cutting costs, right? Both

460
00:23:19,433 --> 00:23:21,235
parents and providers are
are trying to figure out

461
00:23:21,301 --> 00:23:24,204
how they can make the math
work.

462
00:23:25,639 --> 00:23:29,776
is my understanding is that
it's already difficult, but

463
00:23:29,843 --> 00:23:33,113
how stunning is it that a
quarter of providers might

464
00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:35,215
have to close their
operations?

465
00:23:35,282 --> 00:23:38,385
>> It's very dramatic. And
I think when we dig into

466
00:23:38,452 --> 00:23:42,756
the numbers and we think
about 25% of providers now,

467
00:23:42,823 --> 00:23:46,693
25% of group providers,
that's a really significant

468
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,363
amount of child care seats
available in the state.

469
00:23:49,429 --> 00:23:53,834
Right? So family child care
providers can serve up to

470
00:23:53,901 --> 00:23:56,003
eight children at a time,
but group programs can

471
00:23:56,069 --> 00:23:57,971
serve hundreds of children.
So we're thinking about,

472
00:23:58,038 --> 00:24:00,741
you know, when you just
think 25%, it's not just

473
00:24:00,807 --> 00:24:04,344
like across the board in
terms of how many seats we

474
00:24:04,411 --> 00:24:07,581
have. And I think that's
going to be really stark.

475
00:24:07,648 --> 00:24:09,716
And I also would estimate
that that that number is

476
00:24:09,783 --> 00:24:12,886
likely going to be larger
than it was when the

477
00:24:12,953 --> 00:24:16,223
research was done.
>> Is there any prospect

478
00:24:16,290 --> 00:24:19,459
that the state would
replicate this funding?

479
00:24:19,526 --> 00:24:23,096
>> I would love to see this
program be codified into

480
00:24:23,163 --> 00:24:26,934
law. I think we have seen
examples from all over the

481
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,671
country states, red, blue,
purple states making

482
00:24:30,737 --> 00:24:33,440
significant investments in
the childcare sector and

483
00:24:33,507 --> 00:24:37,077
seeing really big returns
on that investment.

484
00:24:37,144 --> 00:24:40,814
Anything's possible when
you prioritize it. And yes,

485
00:24:40,881 --> 00:24:43,283
we would love to see this
program continue it. It had

486
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:47,354
all the components that I
think are needed to hold

487
00:24:47,421 --> 00:24:50,991
together. This market.
>> Is, for some

488
00:24:51,625 --> 00:24:54,862
policymakers, does that
kind of funding smack of an

489
00:24:54,928 --> 00:24:58,265
entitlement?
>> It can and I think it

490
00:24:59,933 --> 00:25:02,669
it's because the childcare
sector itself is is made up

491
00:25:02,736 --> 00:25:05,839
of for profit, nonprofit
family child care providers

492
00:25:05,906 --> 00:25:07,941
operating out of their
homes, you know, large

493
00:25:08,008 --> 00:25:10,544
group programs. It's hard
to sort of wrap your mind

494
00:25:10,611 --> 00:25:14,848
around it versus like a
K-12 system. You need a

495
00:25:16,383 --> 00:25:18,151
teaching license, you need
a certain amount of

496
00:25:18,218 --> 00:25:20,354
education to meet the
teaching license. That

497
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:22,789
doesn't mean that that's
not also required in early

498
00:25:22,856 --> 00:25:25,292
care and education, but
it's not what you think

499
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,962
about because of the the
fabric of these providers

500
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:33,767
in the state, you know,
look different. But I would

501
00:25:33,834 --> 00:25:36,637
argue a, you know, a wage
and career ladder for early

502
00:25:36,703 --> 00:25:41,708
care and education based on
experience. And their own

503
00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:46,513
education is the same. That
is in K-12 schools, right?

504
00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:49,783
In which is public is
publicly funded. We see

505
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:52,252
that as a public good.
What's happening over here

506
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:55,589
is the same exact thing,
but it's entirely funded

507
00:25:55,656 --> 00:25:58,592
mostly by parent fees.
>> All right. Well, Paula

508
00:25:58,659 --> 00:26:00,827
Drew, thanks very much.
>> Thank you for having me.

509
00:26:00,894 --> 00:26:03,096
>> For more on this and
other issues facing

510
00:26:03,163 --> 00:26:06,233
Wisconsin, visit our
website at PBS Wisconsin

511
00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:08,468
Education Vigue and then
click on the news tab.

512
00:26:08,535 --> 00:26:10,771
That's our program for
tonight. I'm Frederica

513
00:26:10,838 --> 00:26:13,740
Freyberg. Have a good
weekend.

514
00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:27,588
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

515
00:26:48,308 --> 00:26:52,980
Fund for Journalism and
friends of PBS Wisconsin.