1 00:00:07,307 --> 00:00:10,777 PBS Wisconsin Original production. 2 00:00:11,512 --> 00:00:15,582 >> Funding to help K-12 schools and lower property 3 00:00:15,649 --> 00:00:20,654 taxes should have passed, so say 80% of Wisconsinites 4 00:00:20,721 --> 00:00:22,389 polled. [MUSIC] 5 00:00:23,724 --> 00:00:26,693 and gowns, what do job prospects look like under 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,429 the new domain of AI? [MUSIC] 7 00:00:32,032 --> 00:00:35,169 Tonight on "Here& Now" Charles Franklin on the 8 00:00:35,235 --> 00:00:38,805 huge support for the surplus bill that failed 9 00:00:38,872 --> 00:00:41,508 and where the candidates for governor stand on 10 00:00:41,575 --> 00:00:45,045 sharing revenue with locals. A top state economist 11 00:00:45,112 --> 00:00:48,315 shares prospects for the labor market, and a look at 12 00:00:48,382 --> 00:00:51,818 the lawsuit questioning how state sheriffs aid federal 13 00:00:51,885 --> 00:00:54,688 immigration agents. [MUSIC] 14 00:00:55,255 --> 00:00:58,158 29th. >> Funding for "Here& Now" 15 00:00:58,225 --> 00:01:01,161 is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and 16 00:01:01,228 --> 00:01:05,465 Friends of PBS Wisconsin. >> The deal between 17 00:01:12,806 --> 00:01:15,609 Republican legislative leaders and Governor Tony 18 00:01:15,676 --> 00:01:18,812 Evers to use surplus dollars to reduce property 19 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:22,583 taxes, increase school funding and give out tax 20 00:01:22,649 --> 00:01:25,986 rebates, failed in colossal fashion when most Democrats 21 00:01:26,053 --> 00:01:28,555 voted against it, and Republican candidate for 22 00:01:28,622 --> 00:01:31,558 governor, Tom Tiffany, blasted the bill ahead of 23 00:01:31,625 --> 00:01:35,896 the vote. But when asked, most people across the 24 00:01:35,963 --> 00:01:38,999 state said they were for it. A new Marquette Law School 25 00:01:39,066 --> 00:01:43,370 poll found 80% of Wisconsin adults say the legislature 26 00:01:43,437 --> 00:01:46,173 should have passed the measure. Poll director 27 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,909 Charles Franklin is here with more. And thanks very 28 00:01:48,976 --> 00:01:50,911 much for being here. >> Thanks for having me. 29 00:01:50,978 --> 00:01:53,146 >> So have you ever conducted a poll with 30 00:01:53,213 --> 00:01:55,582 across the board bipartisan results on any issue like 31 00:01:55,649 --> 00:01:57,618 this? >> There are a few, but 32 00:01:57,684 --> 00:02:01,154 they're really rare. And on this one, with the 80% in 33 00:02:01,221 --> 00:02:05,125 favor, that was 77% of Republicans, 81% of 34 00:02:05,926 --> 00:02:09,730 independents, 82% of Democrats. That is really 35 00:02:09,796 --> 00:02:13,534 an incredibly narrow range across party. And it's also 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,172 the same across ideology. 78% of liberals, 78% of 37 00:02:19,072 --> 00:02:21,909 conservatives and statewide, in every media market in 38 00:02:21,975 --> 00:02:25,679 the state, it's in the high 70s or 80s in support of 39 00:02:25,746 --> 00:02:28,815 the bill. most resonant about why 40 00:02:28,882 --> 00:02:31,518 people wanted this? >> Well, I think the 41 00:02:31,585 --> 00:02:36,156 fundamental thing is that it gives something that 42 00:02:36,223 --> 00:02:39,493 everybody wants at least a piece of. In our other 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,030 polling this year, we've seen concern about reducing 44 00:02:43,096 --> 00:02:47,034 property taxes is high with funding for special 45 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:51,138 education is a 70% in favor of that. And who doesn't 46 00:02:51,205 --> 00:02:55,609 want a check for 300 or $600 to a couple? So there 47 00:02:55,676 --> 00:02:58,178 are popular elements there. I think the other thing 48 00:02:58,245 --> 00:03:01,415 that's less obvious is that this is a kind of old 49 00:03:01,481 --> 00:03:03,951 fashioned compromise where everybody got something, 50 00:03:04,017 --> 00:03:06,119 and it's all about the good things you're getting 51 00:03:06,186 --> 00:03:09,623 rather than the bad things. The conflict in politics 52 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:12,626 and in the capital may have made it hard for that 53 00:03:12,693 --> 00:03:16,029 compromise to carry over in the actual votes, where you 54 00:03:16,096 --> 00:03:19,333 saw both some Republicans and all Democrats in the 55 00:03:19,399 --> 00:03:24,104 Senate voting no. That that inability to reach a 56 00:03:24,171 --> 00:03:27,007 compromise and stick to it is much easier for the 57 00:03:27,074 --> 00:03:29,877 public to see this as a reasonable outcome, maybe 58 00:03:29,943 --> 00:03:33,847 harder for legislators. >> So in your polling, you 59 00:03:33,914 --> 00:03:37,484 referenced the potential fiscal impact, but you 60 00:03:37,551 --> 00:03:40,621 surveyed people before the Legislative Fiscal Bureau 61 00:03:40,687 --> 00:03:45,559 actually put a specific $2.9 billion number on a 62 00:03:45,626 --> 00:03:48,629 potential projected deficit as a result of this. Do you 63 00:03:48,695 --> 00:03:50,831 think if you had that specific number, it would 64 00:03:50,898 --> 00:03:53,567 have changed the results? >> It might have changed it 65 00:03:53,634 --> 00:03:55,836 a little bit. That report came out after we were 66 00:03:55,903 --> 00:03:58,772 already in the field, so it was too late to incorporate 67 00:03:58,839 --> 00:04:01,408 it. But we did ask a separate question that said, 68 00:04:01,475 --> 00:04:04,511 some opponents have said this is fiscally 69 00:04:04,578 --> 00:04:07,281 irresponsible. Do you think it would be better to wait 70 00:04:07,347 --> 00:04:09,750 until we have a better picture of next year's 71 00:04:09,816 --> 00:04:13,520 budget, or pass it now, even if that means a 72 00:04:13,587 --> 00:04:18,525 potential future budget deficit? It was still 69% 73 00:04:18,592 --> 00:04:23,096 saying it should be passed. Now just 21% say wait until 74 00:04:23,163 --> 00:04:26,366 later. So having that information, those real 75 00:04:26,433 --> 00:04:30,003 doubts about the fiscal situation did lower support 76 00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:33,507 by 11 points, but it still left more than two thirds 77 00:04:33,574 --> 00:04:37,544 in favor. And again, across the board, Republican, 78 00:04:37,611 --> 00:04:39,680 independent and Democrats still wanted it to happen. 79 00:04:39,746 --> 00:04:42,416 Now. >> Back to your results. 80 00:04:43,050 --> 00:04:46,053 How surprising is it that usual party politics kind 81 00:04:46,119 --> 00:04:49,089 of don't apply here? >> Yeah, it's very 82 00:04:49,156 --> 00:04:53,460 surprising because so little that we see in state 83 00:04:53,527 --> 00:04:56,730 politics is bipartisan this way. I think part of what's 84 00:04:56,797 --> 00:05:00,367 going on is you had an odd combination of bipartisan 85 00:05:00,434 --> 00:05:03,804 support for the bill. Governor Evers and 86 00:05:03,871 --> 00:05:07,774 Republican leadership. But you also had bipartisan 87 00:05:07,841 --> 00:05:10,878 opposition, Tom, Tiffany's opposition. Most of the 88 00:05:10,944 --> 00:05:13,814 Democratic candidates either were outright 89 00:05:13,881 --> 00:05:17,084 opposed or were very lukewarm about the bill. 90 00:05:17,150 --> 00:05:20,721 And as we saw in the vote split, there were three 91 00:05:20,787 --> 00:05:23,724 Republicans in the Senate, enough to sink the bill 92 00:05:23,790 --> 00:05:26,793 without Democratic support, and all Democrats opposed. 93 00:05:26,860 --> 00:05:30,430 So you had both bipartisan support and bipartisan 94 00:05:30,497 --> 00:05:33,567 opposition. So what's a partizan to do when they're 95 00:05:33,634 --> 00:05:36,737 sent such conflicting messages? And the result 96 00:05:36,803 --> 00:05:39,473 was just almost no difference in how the 97 00:05:39,540 --> 00:05:42,442 parties felt about the bill. >> Now there is the piece 98 00:05:42,509 --> 00:05:45,579 about Governor Evers not working with his Democratic 99 00:05:45,646 --> 00:05:49,149 caucus on this, and then they mostly vote against it. 100 00:05:49,216 --> 00:05:51,652 What do you make of Evers play in this legislation? 101 00:05:51,718 --> 00:05:56,023 >> I think that's a politically stunning result, 102 00:05:56,089 --> 00:05:59,526 not one that most voters pay that much attention to 103 00:05:59,593 --> 00:06:03,964 day in and day out, but it surfaces the fact that for 104 00:06:04,031 --> 00:06:07,701 seven and a half years, Evers has really had to 105 00:06:07,768 --> 00:06:10,704 deal with the Republican majorities in the 106 00:06:10,771 --> 00:06:13,640 legislature. The Democratic minority could do very 107 00:06:13,707 --> 00:06:17,077 little to help him, though it was vital for passing 108 00:06:17,144 --> 00:06:20,881 the most recent budget, for example. But he just hasn't 109 00:06:20,948 --> 00:06:23,450 been forced politically to work with the Democrats in 110 00:06:23,517 --> 00:06:27,721 the legislature. But this was really surprising that 111 00:06:27,788 --> 00:06:33,160 his party would desert him so completely on, you know, 112 00:06:33,227 --> 00:06:36,530 the sort of capstone bill of his term as governor. 113 00:06:36,597 --> 00:06:38,432 >> You asked the question in your poll whether 114 00:06:38,498 --> 00:06:41,168 positions on this bill will affect the November 115 00:06:41,235 --> 00:06:45,072 elections. Will it? >> 25% said it would be 116 00:06:45,138 --> 00:06:48,509 very important for their fall vote. I take that with 117 00:06:48,575 --> 00:06:51,345 a grain of salt. Fall is still a good ways away, but 118 00:06:51,411 --> 00:06:54,581 what I think we can be certain of is that the 119 00:06:54,648 --> 00:06:58,952 issues of property tax funding for schools, those 120 00:06:59,019 --> 00:07:02,890 things are going to be at the center of our fall 121 00:07:02,956 --> 00:07:05,626 campaigns. Even if voters have completely forgotten 122 00:07:05,692 --> 00:07:08,462 about this bill, and I'm not sure that they will 123 00:07:08,529 --> 00:07:11,565 forget about the bill. But how do you sell that? 124 00:07:11,632 --> 00:07:14,401 You're for property tax relief. You're for school 125 00:07:14,468 --> 00:07:19,439 funding. If both parties took such ambiguous stands 126 00:07:19,506 --> 00:07:22,643 on on this budget bill. >> All right. Charles 127 00:07:22,709 --> 00:07:25,245 Franklin, thanks very much. >> Thank you. 128 00:07:25,312 --> 00:07:28,482 >> The issue of trying to hold down property taxes 129 00:07:28,549 --> 00:07:31,251 while also being able to fund services pertains not 130 00:07:31,318 --> 00:07:34,321 just to schools, but to things like fire 131 00:07:34,388 --> 00:07:38,659 departments and EMS, like schools. Cities also pass 132 00:07:38,725 --> 00:07:41,862 referendums, asking local voters permission to raise 133 00:07:41,929 --> 00:07:45,432 property taxes to pay for basic services. Now, this 134 00:07:45,499 --> 00:07:48,268 has become more common in recent years, as state 135 00:07:48,335 --> 00:07:50,938 funding for local government continues to 136 00:07:51,004 --> 00:07:54,842 fall behind the cost of inflation. In our ongoing 137 00:07:54,908 --> 00:07:57,311 series looking at the biggest issues in the race 138 00:07:57,377 --> 00:07:59,613 for governor "Here& Now", senior political reporter 139 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,449 Zac Schultz asked the candidates if they want to 140 00:08:02,516 --> 00:08:05,886 see any changes to how the state shares revenue with 141 00:08:05,953 --> 00:08:10,090 local government. >> In 2023. Governor Tony 142 00:08:10,991 --> 00:08:14,328 Evers and legislative Republicans celebrated a 143 00:08:14,394 --> 00:08:17,164 bipartisan compromise that boosted funding for local 144 00:08:17,231 --> 00:08:20,334 governments by nearly 20%. But after more than a 145 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,670 decade of property tax freezes, local governments 146 00:08:23,737 --> 00:08:26,173 around the state have still been forced to go to 147 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,642 referendums since then to ask the voters to raise 148 00:08:28,709 --> 00:08:31,612 their own taxes to cover the increased costs of 149 00:08:31,678 --> 00:08:35,082 basic services like police and fire protection. We 150 00:08:35,148 --> 00:08:37,951 asked the candidates for governor if they want to 151 00:08:38,018 --> 00:08:40,287 see changes to how the state shares revenue with 152 00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:43,257 local governments. >> I served two terms as a 153 00:08:43,323 --> 00:08:46,126 locally elected official. I think we need to make sure 154 00:08:46,193 --> 00:08:48,462 that they are well funded. I think, especially on the 155 00:08:48,529 --> 00:08:50,197 infrastructure side in regards to roads, because 156 00:08:50,264 --> 00:08:52,866 that's oftentimes the biggest thing for local 157 00:08:52,933 --> 00:08:55,402 units of government. We need to make sure that they 158 00:08:55,469 --> 00:08:58,071 have good funding to be able to maintain their 159 00:08:58,138 --> 00:09:00,741 infrastructure, especially roads and bridges. 160 00:09:00,807 --> 00:09:04,077 >> As the county executive, 80% of our local tax levy 161 00:09:04,144 --> 00:09:07,314 is going towards, you know, state mandated services. 162 00:09:07,381 --> 00:09:10,150 These are services that, you know, most folks may 163 00:09:10,217 --> 00:09:13,320 not actually utilize, but those most used amenities, 164 00:09:13,387 --> 00:09:18,559 like our public parks, like our county zoo, like our 165 00:09:18,625 --> 00:09:21,128 county transit system, these are non-mandated 166 00:09:21,195 --> 00:09:23,463 services. And it really puts those particular 167 00:09:23,530 --> 00:09:26,300 services that help to improve the quality of life 168 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:29,503 for individuals who live in or around or just play in 169 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:32,105 Milwaukee County. Those are always on the chopping 170 00:09:32,172 --> 00:09:35,275 block. And so we actually need a better course of 171 00:09:35,342 --> 00:09:37,678 action. We need a better relationship with the state 172 00:09:37,744 --> 00:09:40,981 of Wisconsin for all local municipalities to be able 173 00:09:41,048 --> 00:09:43,917 to fund the necessary programs and services that 174 00:09:43,984 --> 00:09:47,087 their residents expect, but also rely on every day. 175 00:09:47,154 --> 00:09:49,223 >> I think that the state needs to meet its 176 00:09:49,289 --> 00:09:51,258 commitment to local governments and to our 177 00:09:51,325 --> 00:09:53,594 public schools. You know, the promise was that the 178 00:09:53,660 --> 00:09:56,430 state would cover two thirds of the cost. And we 179 00:09:56,496 --> 00:09:58,398 have really very, very infrequently ever lived up 180 00:09:58,465 --> 00:10:01,568 to that. Meanwhile, local property taxpayers are 181 00:10:01,635 --> 00:10:04,471 asked to raise their own already too high property 182 00:10:04,538 --> 00:10:06,707 taxes just to keep the lights on for our schools 183 00:10:06,773 --> 00:10:09,576 and keep the snowplows on the road and police and 184 00:10:09,643 --> 00:10:12,045 firefighters on the street. That's not fair. The state 185 00:10:12,112 --> 00:10:14,147 is sitting on a multibillion dollar surplus 186 00:10:14,214 --> 00:10:17,351 and has for years, and it's time that we reinvested 187 00:10:17,417 --> 00:10:20,320 that money where taxpayers expect and deserve it to be 188 00:10:20,387 --> 00:10:23,323 spent in our local communities. 189 00:10:23,390 --> 00:10:25,993 >> When we have the number of referenda that are still 190 00:10:26,059 --> 00:10:28,228 going on, when, you know, places like Whitewater and 191 00:10:28,295 --> 00:10:30,931 Stevens Point have to go to, right, we have to go to 192 00:10:30,998 --> 00:10:33,934 referendum in order to create positions for 193 00:10:34,001 --> 00:10:36,703 firefighters. That system is still not working the 194 00:10:36,770 --> 00:10:39,673 way it needs to work. And so, you know, I think that 195 00:10:39,740 --> 00:10:42,576 no matter what we do, we need to ensure that the 196 00:10:42,643 --> 00:10:45,212 relationship between local government and state 197 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:47,548 government is strong and that we're hearing what's 198 00:10:47,614 --> 00:10:50,117 happening at the local level. And I think that we 199 00:10:50,184 --> 00:10:53,987 have for many years, as state shared revenue was 200 00:10:54,054 --> 00:10:56,390 frozen, I think we were not listening to local 201 00:10:56,456 --> 00:10:58,025 government as their costs were increasing. 202 00:10:58,091 --> 00:11:00,994 >> The state has been starving our local 203 00:11:01,061 --> 00:11:05,566 municipalities and for over a decade now. And so it's 204 00:11:05,632 --> 00:11:07,701 imperative that we have a more equitable shared 205 00:11:07,768 --> 00:11:10,971 revenue formula to make sure that our local 206 00:11:11,038 --> 00:11:13,240 municipalities have the resources they need. They 207 00:11:13,307 --> 00:11:15,809 say when government is the government that's closest 208 00:11:15,876 --> 00:11:18,745 to your door, is the government that's going to 209 00:11:18,812 --> 00:11:22,883 pass policies that impact you quickest. So it's it's 210 00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:25,752 it's for communities. It's necessary for our 211 00:11:25,819 --> 00:11:27,921 communities to have municipalities that have 212 00:11:27,988 --> 00:11:30,324 the resources to provide the services that people 213 00:11:30,390 --> 00:11:32,559 need. >> We do need more 214 00:11:32,626 --> 00:11:36,063 investment in local government. When I talk to 215 00:11:36,129 --> 00:11:38,966 municipalities and cities all across the the state, 216 00:11:39,032 --> 00:11:41,668 they are really struggling to be able to provide the 217 00:11:41,735 --> 00:11:44,471 services that their constituents expect. Basic 218 00:11:44,538 --> 00:11:46,673 services. We're talking about making sure that 219 00:11:46,740 --> 00:11:49,676 their parks stay open, their public libraries stay 220 00:11:49,743 --> 00:11:52,746 open, that there's a public pool that that kids can go 221 00:11:52,813 --> 00:11:55,382 to in the summer. So we're going to have to look at 222 00:11:55,449 --> 00:11:59,019 that formula of how we fund municipalities and cities 223 00:11:59,086 --> 00:12:01,288 to make sure they can provide those services. 224 00:12:01,355 --> 00:12:03,557 >> You know, local governments are really 225 00:12:03,624 --> 00:12:06,126 struggling under the weight of a lack of funding. We 226 00:12:06,193 --> 00:12:09,096 need to do better and make sure that local communities 227 00:12:09,162 --> 00:12:12,699 have resources. My platform of building the economy is 228 00:12:12,766 --> 00:12:15,536 really focused on looking at the main streets around 229 00:12:15,602 --> 00:12:18,539 the state, saying, what do you need? What are your 230 00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:20,874 priorities? Giving some resources so that then they 231 00:12:20,941 --> 00:12:24,077 can start to generate momentum and be able to 232 00:12:24,144 --> 00:12:26,280 have local economies that are providing good jobs, 233 00:12:26,346 --> 00:12:28,415 health care and the services that Wisconsinites 234 00:12:28,482 --> 00:12:30,617 need. >> There's long been a 235 00:12:30,684 --> 00:12:35,222 funding flaw that has made it more difficult for 236 00:12:35,289 --> 00:12:38,192 municipalities to be able to get the resources, or 237 00:12:38,258 --> 00:12:41,128 even the money that goes to Madison, to come back at 238 00:12:41,195 --> 00:12:44,364 the same rate. This has been an issue in Milwaukee. 239 00:12:44,431 --> 00:12:47,568 That's why we've seen the raise in sales tax in the 240 00:12:47,634 --> 00:12:51,271 city of Milwaukee and Milwaukee County. But that 241 00:12:51,338 --> 00:12:54,174 didn't change the formula. The percentage is still the 242 00:12:54,241 --> 00:12:55,742 same. So effectively, there's even more money 243 00:12:55,809 --> 00:12:59,847 coming in. But at a time also when people are 244 00:12:59,913 --> 00:13:03,350 feeling the pinch, you know, at the grocery store or 245 00:13:03,417 --> 00:13:05,652 anytime they're at any checkout counter. Now we 246 00:13:05,719 --> 00:13:07,921 have this increased sales tax, which is making it 247 00:13:07,988 --> 00:13:11,959 even harder for people. But the reason that is the case 248 00:13:12,025 --> 00:13:15,629 is because Madison has failed in the legislature, 249 00:13:15,696 --> 00:13:18,732 has failed to actually implement a real solution 250 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:22,135 to make it easier for municipalities to get the 251 00:13:22,202 --> 00:13:24,204 support they deserve. And we're going to be convening 252 00:13:24,271 --> 00:13:27,541 a group of local elected officials of mayors very 253 00:13:27,608 --> 00:13:29,643 soon to be able to have this conversation, have 254 00:13:29,710 --> 00:13:32,145 this discussion in a real way. 255 00:13:32,212 --> 00:13:34,948 >> Reporting from Madison. I'm Zac Schultz for "Here& 256 00:13:35,015 --> 00:13:38,252 Now". >> Wisconsin's unemployment 257 00:13:38,318 --> 00:13:43,056 rate sits at 3.5%. That's lower than the national 258 00:13:43,123 --> 00:13:45,392 average. But for people newly entering the job 259 00:13:45,459 --> 00:13:48,328 market like recent graduates, what are their 260 00:13:48,395 --> 00:13:51,031 prospects? Is the labor market cooling and what 261 00:13:51,098 --> 00:13:54,935 role does AI have? That's a lot of questions. We take 262 00:13:55,002 --> 00:13:57,671 them to Scott Hodek, economist with the state 263 00:13:57,738 --> 00:14:01,308 Department of Workforce Development. And thanks 264 00:14:01,375 --> 00:14:03,110 >> Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. 265 00:14:03,177 --> 00:14:05,112 >> So what does the Wisconsin labor market look 266 00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:08,982 like right now for new entrants into it? 267 00:14:09,049 --> 00:14:10,951 >> And we're seeing some deceleration, some slowing 268 00:14:11,018 --> 00:14:14,655 at the national level. And, you know, a couple that 269 00:14:14,721 --> 00:14:17,891 with with rising prices, which are a real drag on 270 00:14:17,958 --> 00:14:22,196 the economy and some of the other indicators that show 271 00:14:22,262 --> 00:14:26,166 some changing spending patterns and, you know, 272 00:14:26,233 --> 00:14:28,502 flattening trend in real disposable income, savings 273 00:14:28,569 --> 00:14:30,838 rates, things like that. And we're definitely seeing 274 00:14:30,904 --> 00:14:34,575 then, you know, a slowing national economy. And of 275 00:14:34,641 --> 00:14:38,946 course, then in Wisconsin, we feel that as well. When 276 00:14:39,012 --> 00:14:42,049 I, when I look though at at our overall labor market, 277 00:14:42,115 --> 00:14:44,017 there are there are some bright spots too. I mean, 278 00:14:44,084 --> 00:14:47,120 like you noted, we, we do have a historically low 279 00:14:47,187 --> 00:14:51,091 unemployment rate. So if you look at, say, national 280 00:14:51,158 --> 00:14:55,329 job openings, data, you do tend to see that there the 281 00:14:55,395 --> 00:14:57,698 higher rates and the separation rates tend to be 282 00:14:57,764 --> 00:15:01,702 really tight together. But there's still, you know, a 283 00:15:01,768 --> 00:15:04,004 relatively speaking, a decent amount of openings. 284 00:15:04,071 --> 00:15:07,274 We've had plenty of times in the past where we've had, 285 00:15:07,341 --> 00:15:10,277 you know, technological change. And that definitely 286 00:15:10,344 --> 00:15:13,380 does cause some disruption. We've actually done work 287 00:15:13,447 --> 00:15:17,985 for the Governor's task force on AI and looked into 288 00:15:18,051 --> 00:15:21,288 where there's exposure amongst these occupations 289 00:15:21,355 --> 00:15:24,858 to AI, and there's a lot there. There will be a lot 290 00:15:24,925 --> 00:15:26,860 of exposure, but it doesn't necessarily indicate 291 00:15:26,927 --> 00:15:29,162 substitution. And a lot of cases it will be folks 292 00:15:29,229 --> 00:15:31,632 working with AI. And that's that's something we're 293 00:15:31,698 --> 00:15:36,270 already seeing. That said, new grads have always 294 00:15:37,104 --> 00:15:39,206 adapted, and there are a lot of job openings out 295 00:15:39,273 --> 00:15:41,341 there. And given demographics just with the 296 00:15:41,408 --> 00:15:44,311 retirement of the baby boomers, there are a lot of 297 00:15:44,378 --> 00:15:47,981 positions coming open that are simply because of 298 00:15:48,048 --> 00:15:51,552 retirements. So there there actually are a lot of 299 00:15:51,618 --> 00:15:53,320 openings and opportunities out there. It's just a 300 00:15:53,387 --> 00:15:55,422 matter of kind of connecting to them. 301 00:15:55,489 --> 00:15:59,626 >> What are the so-called hot jobs right now? 302 00:16:00,194 --> 00:16:02,696 >> Yeah, a couple of the industries. And again, so 303 00:16:02,763 --> 00:16:05,365 I'm going to base this off growth, but we're seeing a 304 00:16:05,432 --> 00:16:07,868 lot of growth in health care. And that makes sense 305 00:16:07,935 --> 00:16:11,305 with an aging population, but also with retirements. 306 00:16:11,371 --> 00:16:13,807 And we're seeing a lot of growth in construction as 307 00:16:13,874 --> 00:16:16,743 well. And you might you might look at construction 308 00:16:16,810 --> 00:16:19,246 and say, okay, well, that's, that's mostly manual labor. 309 00:16:19,313 --> 00:16:21,782 And it's there is a lot of that, but it's not always 310 00:16:21,849 --> 00:16:24,384 the case as well. There's skilled trades like 311 00:16:24,451 --> 00:16:27,888 electricians and plumbers, there's machine operators, 312 00:16:27,955 --> 00:16:29,923 and then you've got the larger companies that do 313 00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:33,026 require accountants and it. And so you do have a lot of 314 00:16:33,093 --> 00:16:35,095 different occupations mixed in in these fields that 315 00:16:35,162 --> 00:16:39,933 have been doing well. But also, you know, if you look 316 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,303 at manufacturing over the over the last few years, 317 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:45,939 it's been a downward trend in employment. And honestly, 318 00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:49,576 over throughout the the past decades, we've seen 319 00:16:49,643 --> 00:16:51,411 staggered drops in employment, in 320 00:16:51,478 --> 00:16:53,013 manufacturing, which we've seen nationally as well. 321 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,249 This is a kind of a developed world sort of 322 00:16:55,315 --> 00:16:58,685 trend. But what we do see is that there are still 323 00:16:58,752 --> 00:17:01,822 there's still difficulty hiring into, into 324 00:17:01,889 --> 00:17:05,058 manufacturing as well. And it's, it we're looking at a 325 00:17:05,125 --> 00:17:07,995 ton of employment in Wisconsin and a ton of a 326 00:17:08,061 --> 00:17:11,265 ton of output and contribution to our gross 327 00:17:11,331 --> 00:17:13,934 domestic product here. So there are a lot of 328 00:17:14,001 --> 00:17:17,070 positions there that are open as well, but we don't 329 00:17:17,137 --> 00:17:19,506 necessarily think about that sometimes as job 330 00:17:19,573 --> 00:17:22,109 seekers. Like, is this industry growing? If not, 331 00:17:22,176 --> 00:17:24,778 should I not apply there? And the truth is, there's 332 00:17:24,845 --> 00:17:26,980 so many retirements across a lot of these different 333 00:17:27,047 --> 00:17:29,216 industries that it's it's more a matter of thinking 334 00:17:29,283 --> 00:17:32,953 of finding kind of the occupations that fit. Right. 335 00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:38,292 >> So what are your long term projections for trends? 336 00:17:38,358 --> 00:17:42,462 The economy? I mean, are people like you looking at 337 00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:46,867 potential recession? >> Well, we don't really 338 00:17:47,835 --> 00:17:51,605 speculate on on what we're going to see in the future. 339 00:17:51,672 --> 00:17:54,908 What I can tell you is that the trend right now has 340 00:17:54,975 --> 00:17:59,546 been has been slowing. That said, if if you were to 341 00:17:59,613 --> 00:18:02,115 just sort of grab news articles around the country, 342 00:18:02,182 --> 00:18:05,152 you would see that that while that some economists 343 00:18:05,219 --> 00:18:07,855 are projecting that it'll climb back up, some are 344 00:18:07,921 --> 00:18:10,357 projecting that it will have we'll have lower GDP 345 00:18:10,424 --> 00:18:14,995 this this year. And there there are not actually a 346 00:18:15,863 --> 00:18:18,432 ton of them calling for a recession immediately. 347 00:18:18,498 --> 00:18:20,968 Again, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean 348 00:18:21,034 --> 00:18:24,071 that we won't have one or or that one isn't coming. 349 00:18:24,137 --> 00:18:28,108 But what I see right now, what I can see right now is 350 00:18:28,175 --> 00:18:30,410 what I can tell you. And that's that we're seeing a 351 00:18:30,477 --> 00:18:33,780 slowing economy. But even despite all the, the, the 352 00:18:33,847 --> 00:18:36,183 pushback from things like, you know, tariffs, the war 353 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:38,285 in Iran, rising prices, things like that, we're 354 00:18:38,352 --> 00:18:40,988 still seeing growth and we're still seeing low 355 00:18:41,054 --> 00:18:43,590 unemployment rates. And and here in Wisconsin, we can 356 00:18:43,657 --> 00:18:47,294 look at our unemployment insurance claims data. And 357 00:18:47,361 --> 00:18:50,163 we're still seeing that on trend and below the last 358 00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:54,334 couple of years as well. So so there, yeah, it's, it's, 359 00:18:54,401 --> 00:18:56,803 it's, it's difficult to say with all the volatility and 360 00:18:56,870 --> 00:18:59,339 uncertainty right now, what we'll see going forward. 361 00:18:59,406 --> 00:19:01,842 >> Yeah, indeed. All right. Well Scott Hodek thanks so 362 00:19:01,909 --> 00:19:04,912 much. >> Absolutely. Thank you. 363 00:19:06,113 --> 00:19:08,815 >> A federal judge in Madison today considered 364 00:19:08,882 --> 00:19:12,386 the case of a Wisconsin tribal nation restricting 365 00:19:12,452 --> 00:19:15,756 non-tribal fishing for walleye and muskies. 366 00:19:15,822 --> 00:19:18,358 Members of the Lac du Flambeau band of Lake 367 00:19:18,425 --> 00:19:21,128 Superior Chippewa Indians arrived at the courthouse 368 00:19:21,195 --> 00:19:24,164 after traveling since before dawn to hear the 369 00:19:24,231 --> 00:19:27,167 arguments before the judge. The state of Wisconsin 370 00:19:27,234 --> 00:19:30,037 filed a federal complaint and early this month was 371 00:19:30,103 --> 00:19:32,973 granted a temporary restraining order to 372 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,076 prevent the fishing prohibition against 373 00:19:36,143 --> 00:19:38,879 Wisconsin licensed anglers. The tribe seeks to restrict 374 00:19:38,946 --> 00:19:41,815 fishing on 19 lakes, including fence, white sand 375 00:19:41,882 --> 00:19:45,819 and Flambeau in Vilas County, arguing a loss of 376 00:19:45,886 --> 00:19:49,089 walleye and muskellunge population. 377 00:19:49,156 --> 00:19:52,226 >> There's 260 lakes on the Lac du Flambeau reservation. 378 00:19:52,292 --> 00:19:55,362 If we were to shut down 19, there's 241 more lakes you 379 00:19:55,429 --> 00:19:58,732 can fish and the. 19 you can fish also with 380 00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:01,201 different species. It's just the muskie and walleye 381 00:20:01,268 --> 00:20:03,770 we're trying to preserve. We're trying to see them 382 00:20:03,837 --> 00:20:07,074 make a comeback. And I don't know why we have to 383 00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:09,576 fight about it, but I guess that's just the way things 384 00:20:09,643 --> 00:20:12,946 happen. >> The initial temporary 385 00:20:13,013 --> 00:20:15,516 injunction allows all fishing to continue on the 386 00:20:15,582 --> 00:20:18,552 19 disputed lakes. Following today's hearing, 387 00:20:18,619 --> 00:20:21,421 Judge William Conley will decide whether the Lac du 388 00:20:21,488 --> 00:20:24,458 Flambeau has sovereign authority to restrict 389 00:20:24,525 --> 00:20:27,194 non-tribal members from fishing within its 390 00:20:27,261 --> 00:20:30,998 reservation. In other news, a lawsuit against five 391 00:20:31,064 --> 00:20:33,534 Wisconsin sheriffs in Walworth, Brower marathon, 392 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,938 Kenosha and Sauk counties over Ice detainers or 393 00:20:38,005 --> 00:20:40,841 immigration holds waffles between being heard in 394 00:20:40,908 --> 00:20:43,911 state or federal court. A federal judge in Madison 395 00:20:43,977 --> 00:20:46,747 this month remanded the case to the Wisconsin 396 00:20:46,813 --> 00:20:49,783 Supreme Court. The sheriffs wanted heard in federal 397 00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:53,187 court and have appealed that remand. The question 398 00:20:53,253 --> 00:20:56,957 before any court is whether those 48 hour ice holds are 399 00:20:57,024 --> 00:21:00,627 legal in Wisconsin. Our next guest unpacks the 400 00:21:00,694 --> 00:21:03,797 issue. Bryna Godar, staff attorney at the UW Law 401 00:21:03,864 --> 00:21:06,466 School State Democracy Research Initiative, joins 402 00:21:06,533 --> 00:21:08,569 us now. Thanks very much for being here. 403 00:21:08,635 --> 00:21:11,238 >> Thanks for having me. >> Well, first of all, how 404 00:21:11,305 --> 00:21:15,209 does an Ice detainer work? >> An Ice detainer is a 405 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:18,178 request sent by Ice to local or state law 406 00:21:18,245 --> 00:21:20,848 enforcement agencies, asking them to hold 407 00:21:20,914 --> 00:21:24,218 somebody for an additional 48 hours beyond when they 408 00:21:24,284 --> 00:21:26,320 would otherwise be released under state law. And these 409 00:21:26,386 --> 00:21:28,789 are voluntary requests. So the local law enforcement 410 00:21:28,856 --> 00:21:31,558 officers can decide whether to follow that request or 411 00:21:31,625 --> 00:21:34,194 not. If they do follow it, then the person would 412 00:21:34,261 --> 00:21:35,863 remain in custody beyond when they would otherwise 413 00:21:35,929 --> 00:21:37,865 be released. >> Waiting for Ice to come 414 00:21:37,931 --> 00:21:39,867 and retrieve them. >> Yes. Yeah. 415 00:21:39,933 --> 00:21:43,737 >> And so how common is the use of these Ice detainers 416 00:21:43,804 --> 00:21:46,273 across Wisconsin? >> So according to some 417 00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:50,310 data from October 2021 through June 2025, I sent 418 00:21:50,377 --> 00:21:54,948 more than 3300 detainer requests. Not all of those 419 00:21:55,015 --> 00:21:57,985 were necessarily honored, coming in. And counties 420 00:21:58,051 --> 00:22:01,088 really vary in whether they are working with Ice to 421 00:22:01,154 --> 00:22:03,090 honor those, or if they have policies that limit 422 00:22:03,156 --> 00:22:05,325 how frequently they honor those detainers. 423 00:22:05,392 --> 00:22:07,427 >> Presumably, this has ticked up during the 424 00:22:07,494 --> 00:22:09,930 current Trump administration. So what has 425 00:22:09,997 --> 00:22:13,100 that cooperation on the part of sheriffs and 426 00:22:13,166 --> 00:22:15,469 sheriff's departments resulted in? 427 00:22:15,536 --> 00:22:17,971 >> So the petitioners in this case are arguing that 428 00:22:18,038 --> 00:22:21,108 that results in unlawful detention of individuals 429 00:22:21,175 --> 00:22:23,443 past when they would typically be released. And 430 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:26,346 that can have significant impacts for individuals 431 00:22:26,413 --> 00:22:29,516 potentially dealing with child care or dealing with 432 00:22:29,583 --> 00:22:31,718 missing work. This can apply to people who are not 433 00:22:31,785 --> 00:22:34,688 just at the end of a criminal sentence, but also 434 00:22:34,755 --> 00:22:36,523 in pretrial detention. So who might otherwise be 435 00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:38,625 detained for a relatively short time? Those 436 00:22:38,692 --> 00:22:40,594 additional couple days can have a significant impact. 437 00:22:40,661 --> 00:22:42,529 And there are also concerns that cooperation between 438 00:22:42,596 --> 00:22:46,099 local law enforcement and Ice can erode trust in 439 00:22:46,166 --> 00:22:48,902 local communities with law enforcement, and lead to 440 00:22:48,969 --> 00:22:51,572 underreporting of crimes and less of a close 441 00:22:51,638 --> 00:22:53,440 relationship with the immigration community. 442 00:22:53,507 --> 00:22:56,443 >> So the lawsuit argues that these holds are not 443 00:22:56,510 --> 00:23:00,914 legal because sheriffs have no authority with 444 00:23:00,981 --> 00:23:05,886 administrative warrants to conduct a second arrest of 445 00:23:05,953 --> 00:23:08,689 someone. Would you expect that the state and federal 446 00:23:08,755 --> 00:23:11,458 courts would have a different view on that? 447 00:23:11,525 --> 00:23:14,228 >> I think it depends on whether they view this as 448 00:23:14,294 --> 00:23:18,198 really an issue of state law or federal law. So the 449 00:23:18,265 --> 00:23:20,634 plaintiffs in this case are arguing that this is really 450 00:23:20,701 --> 00:23:23,470 just an issue of state law. And that is something that 451 00:23:23,537 --> 00:23:25,706 you would sort of expect the Wisconsin courts to 452 00:23:25,772 --> 00:23:28,242 actually have the more expertise on and be able to 453 00:23:28,308 --> 00:23:30,677 decide in a more authoritative way. What the 454 00:23:30,744 --> 00:23:32,646 respondents are arguing is that there's this federal 455 00:23:32,713 --> 00:23:35,015 law issue of whether federal law sort of 456 00:23:35,082 --> 00:23:38,252 independently provides some basis for that arrest 457 00:23:38,318 --> 00:23:40,521 authority. And so if they succeed in getting this 458 00:23:40,587 --> 00:23:43,390 case into federal court, the federal courts might be 459 00:23:43,457 --> 00:23:45,759 more open to that. And it seems like respondents 460 00:23:45,826 --> 00:23:47,861 think that federal court might be more favorable to 461 00:23:47,928 --> 00:23:50,397 it because they are seeking to get it into federal 462 00:23:50,464 --> 00:23:52,299 court. enforcement, under state 463 00:23:52,366 --> 00:23:54,668 statute, can arrest if there are reasonable 464 00:23:54,735 --> 00:23:57,838 grounds to believe that the person is committing or has 465 00:23:57,905 --> 00:24:02,009 committed a crime. Wouldn't an argument be that someone 466 00:24:02,075 --> 00:24:07,014 entering into the country illegally and staying 467 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,883 constitutes a crime? >> So first of all, the 468 00:24:09,950 --> 00:24:13,754 statute, it is not a crime under state law to enter 469 00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:15,923 and be in the country unlawfully. And so it's not 470 00:24:15,989 --> 00:24:18,058 clear that that statute itself would give the 471 00:24:18,125 --> 00:24:20,594 authorization for state law enforcement to make that 472 00:24:20,661 --> 00:24:23,830 arrest. But even if it did, federal law only 473 00:24:23,897 --> 00:24:26,466 criminalizes a narrow subset of immigration 474 00:24:26,533 --> 00:24:28,302 violations, particularly entering the country 475 00:24:28,368 --> 00:24:30,604 unlawfully. So somebody, for example, who enters 476 00:24:30,671 --> 00:24:33,373 with a lawful visa and then overstays that visa has not 477 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,943 actually committed a federal immigration crime. 478 00:24:36,009 --> 00:24:38,445 Also, Ice detainers can issue two folks with green 479 00:24:38,512 --> 00:24:42,049 cards who then are facing deportation proceedings 480 00:24:42,115 --> 00:24:45,219 because they have committed a crime subsequent to 481 00:24:45,285 --> 00:24:47,754 entering the country, but they are not actually 482 00:24:47,821 --> 00:24:49,790 unauthorized until they go through those proceedings. 483 00:24:49,857 --> 00:24:52,426 And so there are many people who are subject to 484 00:24:52,492 --> 00:24:54,661 Ice detainers who have not committed any sort of 485 00:24:54,728 --> 00:24:57,464 federal immigration crime. >> So if it is decided in 486 00:24:57,531 --> 00:25:00,968 state court, would it only apply in Wisconsin versus 487 00:25:01,034 --> 00:25:03,637 applying nationally if it was decided in federal 488 00:25:03,704 --> 00:25:05,239 court? >> Yes. So if it's decided 489 00:25:05,305 --> 00:25:07,908 in Wisconsin, it would only apply in Wisconsin. The 490 00:25:07,975 --> 00:25:10,577 reach of a federal court decision would depend on 491 00:25:10,644 --> 00:25:13,213 what issues they decide and also what level of court it 492 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,949 gets to. So if the federal court ultimately rules 493 00:25:16,016 --> 00:25:19,019 mostly on Wisconsin law and based on Wisconsin statutes, 494 00:25:19,086 --> 00:25:21,255 then it wouldn't apply beyond the state. It would 495 00:25:21,321 --> 00:25:24,157 just sort of be persuasive to other courts, like a 496 00:25:24,224 --> 00:25:26,326 Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling would be as well, if 497 00:25:26,393 --> 00:25:28,962 the federal court were to rule on more of a blanket 498 00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:31,031 federal law issue, and particularly if that were 499 00:25:31,098 --> 00:25:33,934 to get appealed up to the Seventh Circuit or the US 500 00:25:34,001 --> 00:25:35,702 Supreme Court, then that could have broader national 501 00:25:35,769 --> 00:25:38,639 implications. goal, for it to go all the 502 00:25:38,705 --> 00:25:41,608 way up? is. The merits briefing 503 00:25:42,142 --> 00:25:44,745 hasn't happened yet, either at the state level or at 504 00:25:44,811 --> 00:25:47,147 the federal court level. The Federal court remanded 505 00:25:47,214 --> 00:25:49,716 based on a timing issue of the filing. And so we don't 506 00:25:49,783 --> 00:25:52,619 really have a good sense yet of how viable it would 507 00:25:52,686 --> 00:25:55,589 be for this to become really a major federal law 508 00:25:55,656 --> 00:25:57,758 case that goes all the way. >> All right. Well, we'll 509 00:25:57,824 --> 00:25:59,660 see what happens. Bryna. Godar, thanks so much. 510 00:25:59,726 --> 00:26:02,229 >> Thank you. >> For more on this and 511 00:26:02,296 --> 00:26:04,965 other issues facing website at PBS 512 00:26:05,032 --> 00:26:07,267 wisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. 513 00:26:07,334 --> 00:26:09,803 That's our program for tonight. I'm Frederica 514 00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:12,773 Freyberg. Have a good weekend. 515 00:26:44,071 --> 00:26:45,038 >> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus 516 00:26:45,105 --> 00:26:47,608 is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and 517 00:26:47,674 --> 00:26:50,143 friends of PBS Wisconsin.